1 SCRANTON CITY COUNCIL MEETING
7 Tuesday, June 2, 2009
10 Council Chambers
11 Scranton City Hall
12 340 North Washington Avenue
13 Scranton, Pennsylvania
CATHENE S. NARDOZZI, RPR - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2 CITY OF SCRANTON COUNCIL:
MR. ROBERT MCGOFF, PRESIDENT
6 MS. JUDY GATELLI, VICE-PRESIDENT
MS. JANET E. EVANS
8 (Not present.)
9 MS. SHERRY FANUCCI
MR. WILLIAM COURTRIGHT
12 MS. KAY GARVEY, CITY CLERK
MR. NEIL COOLICAN, ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
15 MR. AMIL MINORA, SOLICITOR
1 (Pledge of Allegiance recited and moment of reflection
3 MR. MCGOFF: Roll call, please. Mrs.
5 (Mrs. Evans not present.)
6 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.
7 (Mrs. Gatelli not present.)
8 MR. COOLICAN: Ms. Fanucci.
9 MS. FANUCCI: Here.
10 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.
11 MR. COURTRIGHT: Here.
12 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McGoff.
13 MR. MCGOFF: Here. Let the record
14 show that Mrs. Evans called and said that
15 she would not be at tonight's meeting, she
16 had a medical appointment out of town and
17 she did not think that she would be back in
18 time. Dispense with the reading of the
19 minutes. Announcements, Mr. Courtright?
20 MR. COURTRIGHT: I have two both
21 regarding both police matters. I'm just
22 reading this for the first time myself.
23 It's in response to a letter that was sent
24 from Dave Elliott from the police department
25 about the accusations, I'll say, that were
1 made here last week regarding the stolen
2 signs and obstruction of justice and
3 whatever else we want to call it. Again,
4 this is -- I have not read this at all, this
5 is the first time I'm reading it so if it's
6 not like what you like don't shoot the
8 "Dart council members, I received
9 your letter dated May 29," -- again, this is
10 from Dave Elliott from the police
11 department, "I received your letter dated
12 May 29, 2009, regarding the investigation of
13 stolen/damaged political signs belonging to
14 Gary DiBileo. The incident occurred on
15 March 23, 2009, at 319 Harrison Avenue
16 approximately 11:00 according to the police
17 report. The owner of the property stated
18 that there were surveillance tape that
19 recorded the incident while it occurred.
20 The police received the evidence and placed
21 it into our evidence room. The case was
22 turned over to Detective Mike Schultz for
23 further investigation.
24 During the investigation, Detective
25 Schultz stated that he believed that the
1 person of interest may be involved -- may
2 involve city hall employees. He contacted
3 the supervisor and asked that the
4 investigation be turned over to another
5 agency do to a possible conflict. At this
6 point, Sergeant Robert Martin, Schultz's
7 immediate' supervisor, requested that I turn
8 over the investigation due to a possible
9 conflict of interest because of the persons
10 of interest.
11 On April 15, 2009, I was sent a copy
12 of the letter from Gary DiBileo also
13 requesting to turn the case over to another
14 agency due to a possible conflict. Between
15 April 15 and April 21 I contacted the
16 Lackawanna County District Attorney's
17 Office, the Pennsylvania State Police and
18 the PA Attorney General's Office regarding
19 the incident and asked that they would take
20 over the investigation. All three agencies
21 stated that they would not take the case.
22 Once they turned down the investigation it
23 was returned to Captain Al Leonina,
24 commander of the criminal investigation
25 unit, to have the case assigned back to
1 Detective Schultz.
2 As of the date of your letter, I
3 contacted Captain Leoncini to find out the
4 status of the case and I was informed that
5 the case is still active. He stated that
6 there are persons of interest, but has not
7 called them suspects. He also stated at
8 this point in the investigation there is no
9 probable cause for arrest.
10 If there is someone that has further
11 investigation regarding this incident, I ask
12 they contact the criminal investigation
13 division directly. As for any comments
14 regarding the coverup, we have made every
15 attempt to identify the parties involved
16 going as far as putting the video on
17 television and having the public forward
18 information. We have honored the request
19 for other agency to look at the case, but we
20 were denied. Since this case is still
21 active, the Detective division cannot
22 release any further details regarding the
24 So, for those of who might have
25 information Dave Elliott is asking that you
1 contact the criminal investigation division,
2 and I guess that would be acting Captain Al
3 Leoncini, so we thank him for the response.
4 Again, that may or may not be what some
5 people wanted to hear, but that's the answer
6 we got.
7 Just one other thing, I think a
8 matter of great importance to everybody in
9 this city right now, I think we are all
10 aware of the fact that there was an
11 individual that was shot and killed by
12 Scranton police officers. I personally to
13 not have any other information nor do I
14 believe anybody on council has any other
15 information other than what the general
16 public has. At times do I tend to have a
17 little bit more information than the average
18 council person, probably, but at this time I
19 don't. The state police stepped in, they
20 were asked to step in by Scranton, which I
21 think was the proper thing to do.
22 They stepped in, they are conducting
23 the investigation and it's been extremely
24 quiet, but I and I believe other council
25 members have been contacted by phone, I have
1 been stopped on the street, and all kinds of
2 questions and accusations have been told to
3 me. I personally don't think that, you
4 know, there is a person that died here, and
5 I don't think that we should be making any
6 kind of accusations whatsoever or any
7 assumptions or anything to that affect on
8 either one side of the other until the
9 investigation comes out and we find out what
10 happened. I have a lot of faith in the
11 state police, I believe they will
12 investigate it, and I believe they will do
13 the right thing, but some things I was
14 hearing, some ugly things on both sides.
15 Ugly things about the police officers, and
16 ugly things about the individual that passed
17 away and I just don't think that's right.
18 I'm assuming that some people would
19 be asking us tonight if we know, so I'm just
20 trying to tell you up front I know no more
21 than you do and I do not believe anybody up
22 here knows anymore than you do, but I just
23 don't -- I don't think we want to start
24 shooting out accusations on either side of
25 the fence. I would recommend that we let
1 the state police do their job, let's see
2 what they find out and hopefully justice
3 will be served in one way or the other.
4 I just thought I would like to say
5 that because of the large amount of people
6 that have a lot of interest. My
7 understanding is they are talking about on
8 the radio, on the Corbett show, I haven't
9 heard any of that myself, I don't know what
10 they have said or haven't said, but that is
11 just my recommendation, we see where the
12 investigation goes before we start accusing
13 anyone on either side, on either side, and
14 that's all I have. Thank you.
15 (Mrs. Gatelli arrived while Mr.
16 Courtright was speaking.)
17 MR. MCGOFF: I would just like to add
18 that I think that any discussion of this
19 matter at this time in council would be
20 inappropriate, possibly because it would be
21 injurious to the victim, to the Scranton
22 Police Department, to the officers involved,
23 and therefore, we have agreed as a council
24 that we will not discuss it this evening and
25 not until there is a report from the state
1 police and I would ask that any speakers
2 please refrain from discussing this incident
3 until there is adequate evidence to support
4 whatever it is that may be said, so again, I
5 would ask you to refrain from speaking about
6 it at the podium this evening.
7 MR. COURTRIGHT: I think maybe
8 because this has all touched us in one way
9 or the other, I think maybe we forgot, I
10 would recommend maybe at this time we have a
11 moment of silence for the young woman that
12 lost her life.
13 (Moment of silence observed.)
14 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you. Other
15 announcements. Anyone?
16 MS. GATELLI: I just have two quick
17 announcements: One is to please remember in
18 your prayers my boss in the Scranton School
19 District, Mr. Patty Schrenkgaust passed away
20 on Saturday. She suffered tremendously, so
21 please remember her in your thoughts, and
22 also another good friend of mine is ill,
23 keep her in your prayers. She is a
24 neighborhood leader, Mr. Barbara Maranuchi,
25 so please try to remember her in your
1 prayers, also. That's all I have. Thank
3 MR. MCGOFF: I was asked -- or we
4 were asked to announce a free rabies clinic
5 Saturday, June 13, from 1 to 3 p.m. at the
6 VCA Dunmore Animal Hospital, that's at 1317
7 Drinker Street, Dunmore, PA, sponsored by
8 the Scranton Animal Care Association.
9 And also I believe everyone probably
10 saw in the paper the Pennsylvania Treasurer
11 McCord has for want of a better term a task
12 force of some kind to seeking the owners of
13 unclaimed property. This is going to take
14 place on Tuesday, June 2. I guess we missed
15 it. Sorry. I did not look at the dates. I
16 just received it today.
17 MS. GATELLI: It's still in the
19 MR. MCGOFF: And it is in the
20 newspaper. Sorry. All of that for nothing,
21 I'm sorry. I'm not very timely I guess.
22 Anything else? Fourth order.
23 MS. GAWEL: Did you remember the
24 dates for the American Cancer Society Relay?
25 MR. MCGOFF: No.
1 MS. GAWEL: I think it's next
2 Saturday, the 13, but I'm not sure.
3 MR. MCGOFF: I'm sorry, third order.
4 MS. GARVEY: 3-A. MINUTES OF THE
5 NON-UNIFORM MUNICIPAL PENSION MEETING HELD
6 ON APRIL 22, 2009.
7 MR. MCGOFF: Are there any comments?
8 If not, received and filed.
9 MS. GARVEY: 3-B. AGENDA FOR THE
10 NON-UNIFORM MUNICIPAL PENSION MEETING HELD
11 ON MAY 27, 2009.
12 MR. MCGOFF: Are there any comments?
13 If not, received and filed.
14 MS. GARVEY: 3-C. MINUTES OF THE
15 SCRANTON POLICE PENSION COMMISSION MEETING
16 HELD ON APRIL 22, 2009.
17 MR. MCGOFF: Are there any comments?
18 If not, received and filed.
19 MS. GARVEY: 3-D. MINUTES OF THE
20 SCRANTON FIREMEN'S PENSION COMMISSION
21 MEETING HELD ON APRIL 22, 2009.
22 MR. MCGOFF: Are there any comments?
23 If not, received and filed.
24 MS. GARVEY: That's it for third
1 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you, Mrs. Garvey,
2 and please for the record show that Mrs.
3 Gatelli is present. You were not at roll
4 call before. Citizens' participation. Les
6 MR. SPINDLER: Finally. I'm in a
7 hurry to get out of here tonight and we are
8 late. I have a neighborhood association/
9 crime watch meeting in like five minutes.
10 First of all, Mrs. Gatelli, I would
11 like to comment on how you accepted your
12 loss last week, you were very gracious in
13 defeat congratulating all the victors. I
14 thought that was very good of you unlike
15 your counterpart who was very mean and
16 viscous and thank God in January we won't
17 have to put up with that any more.
18 MR. MCGOFF: Please, Mr. Spindler,
19 the election is over.
20 MR. SPINDLER: I understand.
21 MR. MCGOFF: Could we please move on.
22 MR. SPINDLER: I didn't want to come
23 here tonight until I read two things in the
24 paper. First of all, a KOZ for the office
25 park down on Linden Street, we don't need
1 anymore KOZ's in this area. Austin Burke
2 said it's got to be a KOZ or they are not
3 going to come here. That's not true. I
4 hear something about a done deal, the people
5 are coming here, we don't need more KOZ's,
6 the people don't need anymore burdens in
7 this city, we need all of the money coming
8 in here that we can get and, Mrs. Gatelli,
9 I'm going to talk at you, maybe you can side
10 with the people this time because I know the
11 stamper over here is just going to stamp
12 away as she said last week, so please stick
13 up for the people and don't okay this KOZ.
14 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Spindler, just for
15 the record, I don't believe anybody up here
16 ever voted for a KOZ. We weren't here.
17 When they did.
18 MR. SPINDLER: Okay, well, I'm
19 asking that this council doesn't because we
20 don't need anymore in this city.
21 Second of all, the I'm not sure of
22 all of the details about the mayor giving
23 away or leasing or selling the Wildlife
24 Center to Lackawanna College and Doug Miller
25 came here awhile back and said Chris Doherty
1 has got a plan. And, Mrs. Fanucci, you said
2 what's the plan?
3 MS. FANUCCI: He said restaurant.
4 MR. SPINDLER: That was the plan.
5 No, he said they have a plan.
6 MS. FANUCCI: No, he said restaurant.
7 Let's get it right. He said restaurant.
8 MR. SPINDLER: He said they have a
10 MS. FANUCCI: He said it was a
12 MR. SPINDLER: Mr. McGoff, would you
13 get her out of order? I'm trying to talk
14 here. I have five minutes. Use your gavel
15 on her and not just on the people.
16 MS. FANUCCI: Sorry, Les.
17 MR. SPINDLER: Thank God in January
18 we won't have you at the gavel either.
19 MS. FANUCCI: It's going to be a long
20 time before then though.
21 MR. MCGOFF: Please, let him finish.
22 MR. SPINDLER: Anyway, I have the
23 deed for Nay Aug. I don't think Lackawanna
24 College can move in. It's a free and public
25 park of. The mayor can't give public space
1 away, so I think you should have your
2 solicitor look at the deed. I don't think
3 they can use that for that.
4 MS. FANUCCI: They can.
5 MR. SPINDLER: And these plans were
6 in the works probably months and months and
7 ago because they showed the plans on the
8 news tonight, so Mayor Doherty had a plan.
9 He threw Mrs. Miller out for a reason. He
10 is just a rotten person, that's all I have
11 to say.
12 MR. MCGOFF: That's unnecessary.
13 MR. SPINDLER: And, Mr. Courtright, I
14 think -- I think you know what I'm going to
15 talk about, I think we should dispel the
16 rumors, there is a rumor going around you
17 are going to leave her sometime the first.
18 I know what you are going to say, is that
19 true or not?
20 MR. COURTRIGHT: Les, at this time I
21 have no plans on leaving.
22 MR. SPINDLER: I understand that,
23 but there are rumors out there. I don't
24 know where people come up with them.
25 MR. COURTRIGHT: You will have that.
1 MR. SPINDLER: And about the chief's
2 letter, I don't think that's true because I
3 got my information straight from Attorney
4 Chris Cullen who told Steven Corbett live on
5 the air that the police investigation is
6 done and the report was with the chief, Ray
7 Hayes and the mayor, Steve Corbett has a
8 copy of the report, so does WNEP, so I don't
9 think the chief is telling the truth.
10 MS. FANUCCI: Les, do you think you
11 can get that for us?
12 MR. SPINDLER: I think you can. You
13 people -- you are the elected officials.
14 MS. FANUCCI: I'm just saying we are
15 not aware of any report, but if you are
16 saying --
17 MR. SPINDLER: I'm not -- well, talk
18 to -- maybe we should get Chris Cullen in
19 here because he is the one that said it to
20 Steve Corbett and I'm not the only one that
21 heard it live on the radio.
22 MS. FANUCCI: Yeah, he is usually
23 pretty truthful.
24 MR. SPINDLER: Steve Corbett is a lot
25 smarter than you are, Mrs. Fanucci.
1 MR. MCGOFF: Please.
2 MS. FANUCCI: She is making comments,
4 MR. MCGOFF: I'm asking you both to
6 MR. SPINDLER: You are so one-sided
7 it's unbelievable.
8 MR. MCGOFF: If you have something to
9 say, please.
10 MS. FANUCCI: I was talking to him-
11 MS. GATELLI: Les, maybe we'll just
12 have Attorney Minora call Attorney Cullen.
13 MR. SPINDLER: Okay.
14 MS. GATELLI: Okay?
15 MR. SPINDLER: I would appreciate
17 MS. GATELLI: And see if there was --
18 MR. SPINDLER: Because I spoke with
19 Attorney Cullen myself.
20 MR. GATELLI: Will you do that, Mr.
22 MR. SPINDLER: Lastly, there is a
23 comment section on the Scranton -- on the
24 Doherty newsletter, I should say on-line
25 section, and there is a coward on there that
1 won't put his name that criticizes all the
2 speakers that come in here, and last week
3 when I talked about the signs he called me a
4 sore loser. Well, first of all, I didn't
5 run for anything, I didn't lose anything. I
6 don't know what he is talking about being a
7 sore loser.
8 Second of all, the signs were
9 stolen, and that's a crime, these signs were
10 40, 50 bucks a shot, they were 70 signs
11 stolen, so to me that's a major crime, and
12 as far as me being a sore loser, like I
13 said, I didn't lose anything because I
14 didn't run for any office. Thank you.
15 MR. MCGOFF: Andy Sbaraglia.
16 MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia,
17 citizen of Scranton. Fellow Scrantonians,
18 it's pretty hard to come after Les, but
19 let's get on something down here. We have
20 this -- these are people who have asked for
21 loans, which you are going to be voting on,
22 Gleason Custom Kitchens. I believe that
23 company has been in business for quite
24 awhile, and I assume you checked with the
25 Better Business Bureau to see if there was
1 any complaints against this individual or
2 individuals before you could vote on it.
3 That would be the first thing to check on.
4 Okay, and let's get onto this other
5 one, Backyard Ale House, and up there at
6 Gleason Custom Kitchens they say two people,
7 but like I said, I think they have been in
8 business for quite awhile so they must have
9 a staff already.
10 Okay, let's go over to the Backyard
11 Ale House, they want to borrow $25,000. By
12 the way, these two loans are at 5 percent,
13 so just in case I don't mention it, and one
14 job. So that takes care of the other two
15 loans. Now, we get to 5-F. They want
16 85,000, but this percentage they want to
17 borrow like 1 percent. Remember, these
18 other two people got charge five, this
19 person got charged one. It struck out like
20 a sore thumb, and as far as I know I think
21 they are in the 201 Lackawanna Avenue, I
22 think that's the enterprise zone, so they
23 ain't even paying taxes. So they are going
24 to get a five-year free ride and a low
25 interest loan, but I guess that's the way
1 the city works. I guess our -- well,
2 somebody got in there anyway to tell them to
3 give them a 1 percent loan, I don't exactly
4 know why, but if I was paying 5 percent I
5 would certainly pay to the mayor.
6 MS. FANUCCI: Their job creation is
7 going to be 20 jobs within three years.
8 MR. SBARAGLIA: They are in a KOZ.
9 There is no way -- it's not a KOZ, but they
10 don't pay any taxes, they can give 100 jobs.
11 If the people don't live in Scranton that's
12 52 bucks, remember that. That's all, and
13 people don't really shop a lot in Scranton
14 or the mall wouldn't be in a lot of trouble.
15 Just remember that, too.
16 MS. FANUCCI: Okay.
17 MR. SBARAGLIA: Okay, let's go down
18 to the KOZ's. Now, this is Galdieri you are
19 talking about. They want to make that a KOZ
20 now, and if you remember they paid 2 million
21 totally -- this is Galdieri for him to move
22 out, this is a Slipco; right.
23 MS. FANUCCI: Right.
24 MR. SBARAGLIA: Okay, they pay 2
25 million for his property to move him out.
1 That was not what they call green space or
2 whatever the name they use for a derelict
3 property. The other properties that they
4 are referring to were also KOZ'd, for ten
5 years they haven't been paying taxes on
6 them. Now, they want you to give them
7 another ten years, so that's going to be
8 20 years of a free ride. Now, where did you
9 come off?
10 We had an increase of 25 percent.
11 The annex tax went up to 52 percent and yet
12 you are giving free rides to corporation
13 after corporation, after corporation which
14 is nothing but a tax dodge. If they were
15 coming from New York, outside of Maryland,
16 this is people coming in from out-of-state.
17 MS. FANUCCI: Some of them are, yes.
18 MR. SBARAGLIA: No, it's not until
19 they got the building going.
20 MS. FANUCCI: That's not true, some
21 of the companies are coming in from
23 MR. SBARAGLIA: Do have you the
24 names? No. You don't have the names because
25 they won't give it to you.
1 MS. FANUCCI: Okay.
2 MR. SBARAGLIA: You know what I mean
3 because they won't give it to you.
4 MS. FANUCCI: Let me ask you a
5 question, seriously and I'm asking you
7 MR. SBARAGLIA: Go ahead.
8 MS. FANUCCI: If all of the other
9 people around us, all of the other places,
10 Jessup, Jermyn and everybody else, did
11 approve this KOZ and now we are in the midst
12 of saying no, and saying no, we are not
13 going to approve it, you don't think that
14 these companies are just going to locate up
16 MR. SBARAGLIA: I got news for you,
17 they go where they want.
18 MS. FANUCCI: Right.
19 MR. SBARAGALIA: The thing is they
20 are damaging the state. We are $3 billion
21 in debt. Any person that moves from a
22 different area of the state into Scranton,
23 and that's in Pennsylvania, is damaging the
24 state economy and there is no way to look at
25 it. It's true.
1 MS. FANUCCI: Regardless --
2 regardless, it's an open -- it's an open
3 deal. That's out there. This program is
4 out there. So, I mean, we can't stop that
5 program in the city. What I'm asking you is
6 if there is a chance to have 1,000 jobs in
7 the city or a chance for a 1,000 --
8 MR. SBARAGLIA: I got five minutes to
10 MS. FANUCCI: I'm asking you a
12 MR. SBARAGLIA: Stop my time.
13 MS. FANUCCI: I'm trying to have a
14 conversation, yeah.
15 MR. SBARAGALIA: I hope he is
16 stopping the time.
17 MS. FANUCCI: I'm asking you a
18 serious question, you don't think that
19 that's a tough sell to say, you know what, I
20 can move four blocks away or three miles
21 away to get a KOZ and within the city I
23 MR. SBARAGLIA: Why do you think I
24 talked about the KOZ? You weren't there.
25 When this came --
1 MS. FANUCCI: But --
2 MR. SBARAGLIA: No. No. Hold on.
3 MS. FANUCCI: No, give him the two
5 MR. SBARAGLIA: She took two minutes
6 out of my time.
7 MS. FANUCCI: No, he doesn't want an
8 exchange, he just wants his time to talk, so
9 go ahead.
10 MR. MCGOFF: Please finish.
11 MR. SBARAGALIA: You weren't there
12 for the KOZ, I was. I fought the KOZ when
13 it came out. The reason I came out because
14 there is nothing more than a tax dodge.
15 Look at what was done with the KOZ's. They
16 fixed up buildings that they own, okay?
17 That's what they did. They bought a
18 building, they fixed them up. I, as a
19 property owner, I didn't ask you to give me
20 a KOZ to fix up my house, maybe I should.
21 You are better off taking a KOZ, take all of
22 these delinquent housing lots that are
23 around the city that they are ripping down
24 the homes, make them KOZ's and give them to
25 the people next door that lives next to him,
1 at least they will take care of their
3 You're pipe dreams. You ain't going
4 to be here in ten years probably, maybe I
5 won't either, but I can tell you one thing
6 no one should ever get 20 years of tax free
7 status, I don't care what they are. All you
8 are doing is creating a surplus where the
9 peasants in the city has to pay the taxes to
10 the business people with little or no. Look
11 at the land? Did you ever look at how many
12 lands are not developed that was KOZ'd? The
13 KOZ was fought. It was fought when it was
14 written, and it's fought today and it will
15 continue to be fought. Okay, I think I used
16 my time.
17 MR. MCGOFF: Ozzie Quinn.
18 MR. QUINN: Ozzie Quinn, president
19 of the Scranton/Lackawanna County Taxpayers'
20 Association. I want to continue where Andy
21 left off, KOZ, KOEZ, we have actually 207
22 parcels of land in the City of Scranton
23 under this KOZ, KOEZ. Now, we have a debt
24 of 170 million. If you extrapolate that
25 into the future with the interest it's
1 $273 million. 25 percent of our properties
2 are nontaxable, nonprofits. You got a whole
3 in the budget right now, in the 2009 budget,
4 that we have to fill of $2.5 million. I
5 don't know where this money is coming from.
6 We are talking about new jobs coming in, a
7 thousand new jobs, and I never seen such a
8 blatant lie as Mayor Doherty said about the
9 6,000 jobs because I have right here a
10 document, HUD document. It's a HUD document
11 and it shows from 2001 to the present into
12 2007, it didn't accrue last year, how many
13 jobs were created or retained? 178. It's a
14 little far distance from 6,000. Stretch it
15 out there. My God, talk about who is taken
16 a cooly. Wow.
17 MS. FANUCCI: I believe --
18 MR. QUINN: Uh --
19 MS. FANUCCI: I know, Ozzie, but I do
20 believe that that's just for the job
21 creation for our loans.
22 MR. QUINN: Pardon me?
23 MS. FANUCCI: I believe that's just
24 for the job creation for the loans we gave
25 out. That's HUD, that's not saying 6,000
2 MR. QUINN: What did he do, build his
3 own place.
4 MS. FANUCCI: There is probably
5 nothing else that came here since '95.
6 MR. QUINN: What does that mean, Mrs.
7 Fanucci? Amil, excuse me, I'm sorry, Mr.
8 McGoff, what would that be.
9 MS. FANUCCI: Well, I know the
10 Enterprise Center right now there is jobs --
11 there is a company there with 30, 40 jobs
12 since last year.
13 MR. QUINN: Now, well, well, well --
14 MS. FANUCCI: I mean, there is places
15 all over the city, I can't give you that
16 number, but I'm saying that that information
17 probably isn't accurate right now. You are
18 claiming that that's -- that's a HUD action
19 document not just a job creation out of the
20 whole city.
21 MR. QUINN: This is what OECD filed
22 with HUD.
23 MS. FANUCCI: Right, but that's not
24 saying that there was all these other jobs
25 created in the city.
1 MR. MCGOFF: Please, let Mr. Quinn,
3 MR. QUINN: You know, a person
4 called me and said about the South Side
5 library, you know? They said the fact, and
6 I agree with them because I have gone up to
7 the library, the Albright library in the
8 afternoon, and it is packed with computers.
9 Now, people go to the libraries nowadays
10 either to do research or to pick up a book
11 to read, of course. Now, this gentleman
12 recommended or suggested that I recommended
13 or suggested that the city, a good friend of
14 the mayor, use some of that community
15 development block grant money and put it
16 into the mall crossing the transit where
17 Boscov used to have his furniture, it's
18 vacant in there and where the T-shirt place
19 was, put maybe 100 computers in there, and
20 you don't need any new library, and I agree
21 with this man.
22 I spoke with Bob Neverosky today and
23 he is a little disturbed, he is president of
24 the Hill Neighborhood Association, I'm an
25 officer in the blight, and he never got a
1 letter that there was a meeting, a
2 combination meeting between Pinebrook and
3 the HNA, okay? And why wouldn't there be a
4 meeting in the Hill Section? Now, the
5 meeting is going to held, it's being held
6 right now at 829 Capouse Avenue. I don't
7 know what, is that a store or something?
8 MS. GATELLI: What, Ozzie?
9 MR. QUINN: 829 Capouse Avenue?
10 MS. GATELLI: That's the Pinebrook
11 neighborhood office.
12 MR. QUINN: It's a store?
13 MS. GATELLI: Yes, it's in there. I
14 think it's Jerry Rinaldi's store.
15 MR. QUINN: How can the people from
16 the Hill Section, you know, go down and go,
17 it's just going through the motions. If
18 they had a meeting up at the IHM Church or
19 the Covenant Church for the people to
20 discuss the consolidated plan that would be
21 great, but it's obviously, again, it's just
22 skipping over the Hill Neighborhood
24 I feel bad about everything that's
25 going on here, and I do want to say the fact
1 that I do have to mention not only are we
2 talking about the debt in the city with
3 regards to the $273 million, we also have to
4 bring in the school district is 120 -- I'll
5 finish up here, please? Okay? And the
6 county debt is $224 million, add that up.
7 It comes over to half a million dollars,
8 doesn't it? Who is going to pay for it?
9 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you.
10 MS. GATELLI: Ozzie, I just have
11 question, did you go to the school board
12 meeting last night?
13 MR. QUINN: No, because it was a --
14 MS. GATELLI: Oh, a work session.
15 MR. QUINN: I make sure that I go to
16 all school board meetings, but --
17 MS. GATELLI: No, I just wondered if
18 they did anything on the KOZ or not?
19 MR. QUINN: No. I assumed they are
20 going to go on vacation so they will
21 probably have it at Monday's meeting.
22 MS. GATELLI: Monday there's a
24 MR. QUINN: Yeah.
25 MS. GATELLI: Okay.
1 MR. MCGOFF: Sam Patilla.
2 MR. PATILLA: Sam Patilla, Scranton
3 resident, member of the Scranton Taxpayers'
4 Association. Good evening, Mr. Courtright.
5 My condolences to the Williams' family.
6 Three years now I have been coming to the
7 city council along with other speakers
8 begging and pleading with this
9 administration to settle the contracts with
10 the fire and police unions.
11 Now, I have had quite a few
12 individuals approach me requesting that make
13 a phone call, get Al Sharpton to come here
14 and I tell them, no. Al Sharpton never
15 voted for Chris Doherty. Al Sharpton isn't
16 responsible for people like Stu Renda
17 getting $80,000, okay?
18 I don't want the members of the
19 community to look down upon the Scranton
20 Police Department because there is some
21 great men and women on that force. I do
22 want them to remember that they're partially
23 to blame because they are the ones that
24 voted for Chris Doherty, okay. Had you
25 elected somebody who actually cared about
1 the citizens, who actually cared about the
2 small business owners, who actually cared
3 about the education of our children, the
4 qualified and experienced police officers
5 wouldn't have migrated out of this city to
6 other areas. The situation of Sister
7 Williams might have been diffused before it
8 got to that point.
9 And I want you all to understand and
10 realize that we have an election coming up.
11 We need people who are for the people. We
12 don't need people who are for themselves.
13 We don't need people who have for corporate
14 America. We need people to represent the
15 citizens and the business owners of the City
16 of Scranton. You want to blame somebody,
17 you blame Chris Doherty. You blame the
18 chief of police, you blame Ray Hayes because
19 had they spent that time and energy to
20 ensure that the police were trained and had
21 the equipment that they needed to protect
22 not only the citizens of Scranton but
23 themselves, we wouldn't be confronted with
24 these type of situations, all right?
25 It's a heated situation. Now, I
1 don't want to turn racial, I don't want
2 people turning against the police force. I
3 want people to wake up and smell the coffee.
4 It's time to elect people who are here for
5 you not people who want to get in office
6 because they think that it will help them
7 leap frog to other office. We don't need
8 political hacks. We need concerned
9 individuals who are concerned about us as a
10 whole, all right?
11 I listened to the radio the night of
12 the election 7 percent of the precinct had
13 reported, 7 percent. This man had already
14 giving an acceptance speech. 93 percent of
15 the precinct hadn't even reported and he is
16 already giving an acceptance speech, all
17 right? So keep in mind when this election
18 comes around here don't be voting for people
19 because you like them, vote for people that
20 are going to do the job that that position
21 entails, okay?
22 And before I go, Mr. Courtright,
23 what business is Focal, Inc., are they a
24 manufacturing business, a retail business?
25 MR. COURTRIGHT: Which one?
1 MR. PATILLA: Focal. The one you are
2 going to give 85 grand to.
3 MR. MCGOFF: It's software.
4 MR. COURTRIGHT: I believe it's for,
5 as he said, it's for software, computers.
6 MR. PATILLA: All right. They don't
7 have government contracts, do they?
8 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm not aware if
9 they do or not, I don't know.
10 MR. PATILLA: Okay, because just like
11 Andy said, you know, you give these
12 businesses KOZ's, then you come down here
13 and you give them 1 percent, all right?
14 Now, when our property taxes come around,
15 well, I'm going to get mine because my
16 property value is worth 20 percent less than
17 it was when we bought that house, so I'm
18 going to get my discount because you are not
19 going to bill me on what I paid for that
20 house. You are going to bill me for the
21 market value is, but you come, you bring
22 this companies in here, you give them
23 freebies, you give them handouts, you give
24 them the resources that the citizens of
25 Scranton have broken their backs to create,
1 to produce and you basically spit in their
2 face when it comes time to looking out for
3 their well-being. Get off the dump and
4 start taking care of the citizens. To hell
5 with these businesses.
6 MR. MCGOFF: Jean Suetta.
7 MS. SUETTA: How you are doing
8 everybody? Jean Suetta. Hi, Billy. Hi,
10 MR. MCGOFF: Good evening.
11 MS. SUETTA: It would nice if you
12 could look at me instead of sitting there
13 like that.
14 MR. MCGOFF: I was just --
15 MS. SUETTA: Judy. Sherry. Did
16 Jerry Langan call?
17 MR. MCGOFF: Concerning North
19 MS. FANUCCI: We talked about that
20 last week, didn't we?
21 MR. MCGOFF: We did get a letter from
22 him in the -- I think a number of letters
24 MS. SUETTA: Because now the word is
25 out that they don't want that Memorial on
1 their grounds anymore, and they want the
2 people to move it. Do they know the expense
3 of moving that memorial? If he doesn't want
4 it there let him smucking pay for it.
5 MR. MCGOFF: We had not heard that.
6 MS. SUETTA: Don't laugh, Bill. I
7 didn't curse. I can say muck. Ask Barbara
8 Walters, she said it on TV. He wants that
9 memorial out of there. Do you know where --
10 MR. COURTRIGHT: He didn't tell us
11 that, Jean.
12 MS. SUETTA: Well, could you send the
13 letter out to the person?
14 MS. FANUCCI: Yeah.
15 MR. COURTRIGHT: To who?
16 MS. SUETTA: Jerry Langan.
17 MS. FANUCCI: Yes, we can do that.
18 MR. MCGOFF: I will personally call
19 him and ask him what he intends to do with
20 that memorial.
21 MS. SUETTA: All right.
22 MR. MCGOFF: Okay?
23 MS. SUETTA: Give me your word?
24 MR. MCGOFF: I just did.
25 MS. SUETTA: Now, I come down here,
1 I was all riled since the shooting, you
2 know, because I can't see no way, shape or
3 form that that woman should have been shot.
4 MR. MCGOFF: Jean --
5 MS. SUETTA: I'm sorry.
6 MR. MCGOFF: No, I asked that we
7 please refrain from that.
8 MS. SUETTA: I'm sorry.
9 MR. MCGOFF: It's all speculation at
10 this point, please.
11 MS. SUETTA: Oh, there is no
12 speculation there, Bob.
13 MR. MCGOFF: Yes.
14 MS. SUETTA: The bullets went in her.
15 MR. MCGOFF: Please.
16 MS. SUETTA: I don't know what
17 speculation is. How much money did you win,
19 MS. FANUCCI: None.
20 MS. SUETTA: No? We went Sunday and
21 went down.
22 MS. FANUCCI: Did you win?
23 MS. SUETTA: 5,000.
24 MS. FANUCCI: No way?
25 MS. SUETTA: Yeah.
1 MS. FANUCCI: I'm going to start
2 hanging out with you.
3 MS. SUETTA: You ain't got the money
4 to hang out with me.
5 MS. FANUCCI: I totally agree.
6 MS. SUETTA: But you don't do the
7 profession I do either. Don't laugh. You
8 are one of my customers.
9 MR. MINORA: I won't tell you.
10 MS. SUETTA: What are you looking
11 for? Don't laugh. Have a good night.
12 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you, Jean.
13 MS. SUETTA: I hope the investigation
14 is good though. Yeah. See how I break you
15 people up?
16 MR. MCGOFF: It's certainly
17 interesting. Lee Morgan.
18 MR. MORGAN: Good evening, Council.
19 This evening I would like to ask, even
20 though they are not present here, the League
21 of Women Voters in the next debate, I think
22 it's important for the League of Women
23 Voters to hand out a little notebook to all
24 the participants in all of the upcoming
25 debates. I have a very unique opinion on
1 what took place at the League of Women
2 Voters because Mr. Miller was sitting next
3 to me, and if you look at the Scranton Times
4 newspaper you will see that they take a
5 picture of me drinking my water talking to
6 Mr. Miller. Well, Mr. Miller was under the
7 impression that Mr. Rogan had written down
8 on paper the order of the questions and the
9 answers and Mr. Miller leans over to me and
10 says, "Lee, I think Mr. Rogan has from what
11 I can see all of questions written down and
12 his answers."
13 And I find that very troubling.
14 Now, Mr. Miller was completely unnerved by
15 this and I said to him, look at, Doug, you
16 have been in council for two years or more
17 as a junior council president, there isn't
18 anything you don't know about anything
19 that's occurred at council. Relax, open
20 your spring water, take a drink and let's
21 move on.
22 So what I'm saying to the League of
23 Women Voters is that I think there was a
24 problem there and I'm comfortable with the
25 problem, but I think that -- I really do
1 think there was a problem there.
2 I'd like to move on to 5-G in
3 regards to KOZ's. I would really hope that
4 this council would vote "no" to this
5 legislation. You know, we are all talking
6 about blight in the city and everybody
7 paying their fair share of taxes and to be
8 honest with you, I mean, I have listened to
9 the discussion, I was here when Mr. Namey
10 came up and spoke about KOZ's a long time
11 ago, I think Mark Walsh was the solicitor at
12 that time, I think Mr. Murphy was the
13 president of council. You know, there is no
14 real creation of jobs taking place with
15 companies shifting from one to place to
16 another. It's going on all over the country
17 and what they do is they use up their time
18 and they move somewhere else. They get a
19 good deal and they move somewhere else.
20 We have got major foreign car
21 manufacturers that have located to this
22 country because states are actually building
23 plants for them to build cars in, and what
24 I'm saying is what benefit do the ordinary
25 Scrantonians get from all of those KOZ's? I
1 mean, if you are going to come in here and
2 you're going to build a $35 million project
3 and you are going to tell them you can't
4 afford to pay the taxes on that I have a
5 problem with that considering that when you
6 are an ordinary working person and you are
7 paying $3,000 property tax on your home and
8 you may only earn 12 or 15 thousand dollars
9 a year before taxes and you are hard pressed
10 to just pay your taxes, pay your heat, pay
11 your utilities and upkeep your property and
12 we are wondering why there is all this
13 blight in the city?
14 And then we come and we look at how
15 we are funding our schools and in my
16 opinion, you know, we are going back to the
17 same homeowners saying, well, this year we
18 are going to have raise your property tax
19 five percent for school tax, and next year
20 we are going to do the same thing and so
21 forth and so on, and all we are doing is we
22 are perpetuating a cycle of continual blight
23 throughout this community.
24 It's time for this council to say,
25 look at, you have to pay your share. We
1 appreciate you coming here, okay, but if you
2 can spend 60 million dollars to build a
3 project then you should be able to pay the
4 taxes on that or what we need to do is tell
5 every citizen in this city that you don't
6 have to pay your taxes. I can it's a real
7 problem here and they are walking away from
8 multiple layers of taxation, and sooner or
9 later you have to realize that if they want
10 to move to Peckville, let them go, and then
11 our residents can drive to Peckville, be
12 employed there and bring the money home and
13 not be sucked dry. I mean, it's only
14 reality that you can only go to the well so
15 many times before there is nothing left, and
16 there really is nothing left.
17 And the last comment I have is they
18 are talking about redoing the Recovery Plan
19 and I think that if we are going to redo a
20 Recovery Plan we have to make a complete
21 plan, we have to present it to the public,
22 and it has to go to a vote again. I think
23 it's time after all these years because
24 let's face it, okay, it's been alleged
25 that -- thank you.
1 MR. MCGOFF: Stephanie Gawel.
2 MS. GAWEL: Good evening, Council. I
3 want to start with a couple of questions. I
4 know the one speaker that comes has asked
5 about it, but I was by the building again
6 the other day and it made me think to ask,
7 what's going on with the North Scranton, you
8 know, like the -- like did we figure out
9 what the Goodwill did with the $5 million
10 because they really only did the front
11 windows as far as I can see. I know the
12 side windows are all still board and stuff.
13 MS. GATELLI: They didn't spend the
14 five million.
15 MS. GAWEL: Weren't they given a
16 grant of $5 million?
17 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, but they didn't
18 spend it yet.
19 MS. GAWEL: They didn't spend it so
20 it's just sitting there do nothing?
21 MS. GATELLI: Yes.
22 MS. GAWEL: I have another question,
23 on the rental properties I know they are
24 supposed to be registered and some people
25 registered them years ago, so -- or, you
1 know, got their permits or whatever, how
2 come they don't get another bill in the mail
3 like yearly?
4 MS. GATELLI: Because the program
5 still is not functioning and I'm really not
6 happy about it.
7 MS. GAWEL: Okay. All right. I'm
8 just asking, you know.
9 MS. GATELLI: They never got -- they
10 were supposed to get a company hired to
11 target all of the properties and that hasn't
12 happened yet. I hope it happens soon.
13 MS. GAWEL: Okay. Mrs. Fanucci, I
14 was working on a plan, somebody took part of
15 my idea, but not all, and once in a while we
16 actually do agree with you.
17 MS. FANUCCI: Right.
18 MS. GAWEL: I do agree with you, not
19 everybody has computers in their homes, they
20 just don't, some can't afford it, some don't
21 want it, whatever, but I don't think we need
22 the new library, I just don't, but I was
23 thinking, and I'm not being sarcastic even
24 though it might sound it, why not use some
25 of the floors of the Southern Union building
1 to put computer rooms in there and the --
2 MS. FANUCCI: The Southern Union has
3 been purchased by someone. It is privately
4 owned now. There are businesses in there.
5 MS. GAWEL: Oh, really?
6 MS. FANUCCI: Yes. Southern Union is
7 not empty, it is functioning and, you know,
8 there is a new coffee shop in there, too,
9 you should stop by, it's very nice. But,
10 you know, Southern Union is a functioning
11 building now privately owned.
12 MS. GAWEL: All right. But, you
13 know, to find a place like they said where
14 Steve and Barns or whatever it was, you
15 know, and just set up computers for people
16 to use, you know, because it's more, you
17 know, really people don't use the books that
18 much anymore and stuff, everybody -- a lot
19 of people use the computers if they could
20 so, all right.
21 Mr. Minora, I haven't asked you in a
22 couple of weeks, how is Kenny McDowell
24 MR. MINORA: As soon as I get a
25 report or an order from the judge I'll let
1 you know.
2 MS. GAWEL: Okay. Just didn't want
3 to let it go. All right, I'm still hearing
4 rumors that some of the firehouses may be
5 closing, could somebody double check on that
6 now that the election is basically over?
7 Okay. I'd like to mention that I got my
8 first weekend edition of the Times Leader,
9 it was very a nice paper. It was very
10 enjoyable. People might actually want to
11 start getting it in the mail. You can get
12 it on Saturdays in the mail.
13 MS. FANUCCI: But now there is going
14 to be no Scranton edition; right?
15 MS. GAWEL: It's the Scranton
17 MS. FANUCCI: Yeah, but I thought
18 they were stopping that.
19 MS. GAWEL: It's for Saturday only.
20 MS. FANUCCI: Oh, all right.
21 MS. GAWEL: It's a nice, nice
22 edition. It has the Parade section in it
23 that the Times just decided we didn't need
24 that I actually enjoyed and stuff, so I was
25 wondering, you know, like we are always
1 talking about the economic situations and
2 the cost of running the offices and this
3 that and the other thing, has anybody
4 thought of doing like a split schedule of
5 like 8 to 6 so that the people like me who
6 work from five in the morning until
7 sometimes 5:00 at night can get into the
8 buildings to do the business that we do?
9 You know, in other words, have a 6 to 8 and
10 have it overlapped a little bit where there
11 wouldn't be overtime, but it would be --
12 MS. FANUCCI: I'm not sure with the
13 union contracts we can do that, but we can
14 check into it.
15 MS. GAWEL: Because it's just a
16 thought. It gives people more of an
17 opportunity to take care of business that
18 they don't have an opportunity to do during
19 the week.
20 Also, Mrs. Gatelli, you seem to have
21 a pretty good rapport with PennDOT, could
22 you see --
23 MS. GATELLI: For the pedestrian
24 walkways I do.
25 MS. GAWEL: Well, I know I have
1 asked with this once before, but again, I
2 wanted to bring it up. Again, the arrows on
3 the streets at Mulberry and Wyoming where
4 you have the one-lane goes left and the one
5 goes center and then the other one goes
6 straight or right, and like if it's not
7 marked, and it's not these days, you know,
8 there is a lot of chance of something
10 Also, Sherry, just real quick, who
11 kind of backtracks on like that place that's
12 supposed to have 30 jobs over the next three
13 years? Who keeps an eye on making sure they
14 keep up with that?
15 MS. FANUCCI: Well, the job
16 requirement actually for that business is
17 only probably two, I believe, I'd have to
18 look it up, but there is only two so they
19 are creating a lot more jobs than they are
20 asked, but the state actually checks on it
21 to make sure that the job creation is done
22 or they actually get penalized and have to
23 pay the money back.
24 MS. GAWEL: Okay. All right. I
25 think it's for tonight.
1 MS. GATELLI: Mulberry and Wyoming?
2 MS. GAWEL: Yeah. Thank you. Have
3 a nice evening.
4 MR. MCGOFF: Brett McCloe.
5 MR. MCCLOE: Good evening. My name
6 is Bret McCloe. It's kind of hard to
7 disassociate from the events of the weekend,
8 so I'm probably going to just cut out a lot
9 of it and move on to a different subject,
10 but I just want to read something that I did
11 write, something really small: Her name, her
12 life I will not mention for I am no stranger
13 to her condition. Confusion and fear that
14 clouds the mind cause action and death to
16 I just want to -- I hope that the
17 mayor and this council can find ways to make
18 funds available to equip and to train our
19 police force with nonlethal weaponry and
20 nonlethal solutions for the people and for
21 the police. This would be one piece of
22 legislation that I'm quite sure it deserves
23 a rubber stamp.
24 I'm going to move onto something
25 else since I'm not going to go through the
1 rest of this, but as for the library, I
2 walked into the South Side bank down there
3 and I don't see this that a brand new
4 library needs to be built. Perhaps that
5 would be better suited as a branch. You
6 could probably put a lot of books in just
7 the existing building, and it looks like
8 there's a big -- there is a second floor,
9 but you can bring that in a little bit and
10 actually put more books in there and leave
11 it as a branch that would probably only cost
12 maybe a million dollars just to redo it as a
13 South Side branch.
14 If you truly, truly wanted another
15 library, who owns the building at 201 of
16 Lackawanna Avenue where the McCann building
17 -- the McCann people used to be in? Who
18 owns that building?
19 MS. GATELLI: I think the chamber.
20 MR. MCCLOE: The chamber?
21 MS. FANUCCI: Yes, the Scranton
22 Enterprise, it's the Chamber. It's the
23 incubator of the building.
24 MR. MCCLOE: I mean, what better
25 place for a new Scranton library than a
1 previous existing building? If there was
2 anyway you could talk to the Scranton
3 Chamber of Commerce and have these
4 businesses and ask them, "Are you okay? Are
5 you ready to go into our previous existing
7 MS. FANUCCI: It's already been
8 rented and it's already filled I believe.
9 MR. MCCLOE: With?
10 MS. FANUCCI: Yeah, there is company
11 who was existing in the business center that
12 expanded and I believe they took most of
13 that area.
14 MR. MCCLOE: And they can't find
15 another place? They can't even build
16 another building?
17 MS. FANUCCI: Who can't?
18 MR. MCCLOE: The business that is in
20 MS. FANUCCI: Well, I think that
21 eventually they probably will, but the whole
22 idea is to get them until they grow to a
23 certain level and then they go to a new
25 MR. MCCLOE: It was just a thought.
1 MS. FANUCCI: Yeah, it's a good one.
2 MR. MCCLOE: It was just thought.
3 That would have been really nice place if
4 you were going to have another Scranton
5 public library it would be right down there.
6 You would be able to, as Mr. Ozzie Quinn
7 said, slap a hundred computers somewhere in
8 there and call it an Ibrary, you know, with
9 all of the Internet hookups and you could
10 put hundreds of computers in there and the
11 books and everything else.
12 Perhaps move some of these
13 businesses over to -- make a deal with the
14 Dioceses. Let's fill up Bishop Hannon or
15 something, you know, just to use the
16 existing buildings that we do have instead
17 of $16 million for something in South Side
18 that may not be needed there. It's not
19 convenient, I don't believe. I think we
20 just need to stop focusing on form and start
21 focusing on function and try to resolve and
22 reorganize our city's assets instead of keep
23 on building new ones. Thank you. That's
24 all I have. Thank you.
25 MR. MCGOFF: Ron Ellman.
1 MR. ELLMAN: Ronnie Ellman. Hi,
2 Council. It's embarrassing for me to get up
3 here and flap my gums after so many
4 intelligent people come up here. I have my
5 usual nonsense I guess. I was down in
6 Hazelton --
7 MS. GATELLI: Don't down yourself
8 like that.
9 MR. ELLMAN: I beat myself up.
10 MS. GATELLI: We enjoy you.
11 MR. ELLMAN: I went down to Hazleton
12 Friday, I am thinking about buying a new car
13 and I don't know I talked to four or five or
14 six different people and without me bringing
15 it up every single one of them brought the
16 idea for the crime down here was so bad, you
17 know. It's just from what I heard it's just
18 terrible. I guess we are more fortunate
19 than a lot of us think up here in town, you
20 know, we don't have open crime on the street
21 like they do down there. Nobody blamed the
22 mayor or the police or, you know, nobody put
23 a blame on it, they were just talking about
24 it that the streets just aren't save
1 After last week I thought maybe
2 Mr. Doherty would come and confront me after
3 all of these terrible things I said about
4 him. I guess he is just -- I don't know, it
5 looked like the Boy Wonder would want to
6 protect his Honor and say something about
7 his honor when somebody keeps attacking him
8 week after week. I guess I could attack the
9 newspaper because I don't like them either.
10 MS. GATELLI: I'll second that.
11 MR. ELLMAN: All this newspaper in
12 this town is good for is wrapping your
13 garbage with. I don't know, they're a
14 purveyor and an advocator of lies and
15 distortions from this election which I'm not
16 the only one. I have just heard some
17 intelligent business people have remarked
18 that was the last worst election that this
19 city ever had because of Mr. Doherty's
20 actions and accusations.
21 I sat here and I stood her a couple
22 of weeks ago and said he is running scared
23 and only somebody like that would bring it
24 to such a low point. This is the worst
25 election this city has ever had, you know,
1 from what business people at the Taurus Club
2 who I talked to them, you know. My brief
4 I don't know. And about the KOZ's,
5 I think too many people forgot about that --
6 I don't remember what it was, it must be
7 20 years ago they built the Volkswagon
8 plant, they stayed nine years and
9 disappeared. My father had two motels in
10 Corinth, Mississippi, in the 60's and the
11 city built six or eight huge plants to bring
12 people from Massachusetts down there, the
13 same thing happened, they stayed six,
14 eight years and all, you know, left after --
15 when it got near time for the taxes.
16 The KOZ's, I have said it, we need
17 taxpayers. Who cares if they go three miles
18 down the road, let somebody else support
19 them. We need taxpayers, like Andy said, if
20 they don't want to pay taxes we just don't
21 need them no more. A fourth of the city
22 doesn't pay taxes. That's a lot of -- there
23 is 40,000 -- Mr. Sunday told me there was
24 about 40,000 taxpayers, you know, sent out
25 ever year. We are just in terrible shape
1 financially and, you know, tell me how Daron
2 Industries, how are they -- you know, they
3 don't have 40 people working there, there is
4 two or three cars in the parking lot unless
5 they got some kind of superplan for bringing
6 the people in from Ashley every day, there
7 must be 40 of them in one car. They haven't
8 hired nobody. You can go to the single tax
9 office and find out who was hired and who
10 hasn't. There is no number like you are
12 That property that I complained
13 about on Seventh and Lackawanna, ten years
14 -- I think it's eight years or 13 years
15 whatever it is, it's a -- like I said, the
16 best location in the city for a business and
17 then they'd have to pay taxes. Let me just
18 finish, those 150 houses out on Keyser
19 Avenue how in the world did they help this
20 city any? We have to build a school there
21 is so many kids going out there. The KOZ,
22 you know, it's for rich people. Let Austin
23 Burke, you know, it's time that -- he's a
24 dinosaur for crying out loud, let him quit
25 staying and spending his day out there at
1 the country club playing golf and get out
2 here and find out what the world is really
3 like and maybe he wouldn't want a KOZ, three
4 or 400 properties around town. Thank you.
5 MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Mr. Ellman.
6 Mr. Dobson.
7 MR. DOBSON: We are going to have to
8 hold an Ozzie look alike contest. Okay, I
9 would like to have a little tiny speech
10 prepared here and it really would require
11 coordination with the state and federal
12 government, but with this economic stimulus
13 and so forth it's important that we not
14 spend this money on trinkets, and to
15 institute a few trinkets.
16 In this town, state and country we
17 need a return to manufacturing. Trade pacts
18 are ill-conceived, lopsided and cause the
19 decay of our employment prospects, and
20 everyone complains about GM, in fact, the
21 type of government franchise is common in
22 favor of the trade nation status countries
23 along with currency manipulation and several
24 other things.
25 I have stressed industrial parks to
1 little or no avail, energy is our achilles
2 heel and recently an ethanol plant was
3 discouraged before anyone heard the real
4 discussion. Rail service was available,
5 could have eliminated truck traffic, wood
6 shavings instead of food substances, and to
7 my knowledge no KOZ was really requested,
8 although, it could have been in the future
9 and certainly could have been refused.
10 Please begin to survey our
11 brownfields and put the return to tax
12 producing job sustaining and product
13 producing companies and not just recycled
15 Now, here is a little extra, for
16 instance, we heard a clinic, another clinic.
17 Well, these satellite clinics are not
18 originally supposed to be tax exempt, but
19 they don't have to fix anybody up that shows
20 up at their door. They could demand payment
21 upon production of the goods and services.
22 A hospital, if I go in with a gunshot wound
23 to a heart attack if they don't fix me up
24 the right way even though I'm not a paying
25 customer I could sue them. Satellite
1 clinics don't have to touch me.
2 Some of these local nonprofits in
3 relation to this library proposal, I have
4 noticed by going down the library that it's
5 nearly impossible at times, not every day
6 because somebody mentioned yesterday that
7 they can get on at any time until 8:00, but
8 you can't get near a computer, it's all
9 college-age kids down at the Albright
10 library in the afternoons especially, so why
11 at 40 grand a year why these colleges can't
12 provide better service for these students.
13 I have to seriously criticize them.
14 I mean, like the shootings last year
15 at these colleges it's ridiculous. Why
16 can't they provide a police force and a
17 security force and computers and so forth?
18 It's really ashame that, you know, somebody
19 from Lackawanna County that's paying taxes
20 might not be able to get on a computer and a
21 foreign exchange student can come here.
22 What does that have to do with somebody that
23 paid library taxes in Scranton other than
24 denies them access, and it's really ashame
25 that these local colleges. I mean, once
1 this issue with the medical college is I
2 think really the Lackawanna Junior College
3 should provide some computers for their
4 kids. It's ashame.
5 And another thing on these foreign
6 trade pacts, pollution. 25 percent of the
7 air pollution in California comes imported
8 from China, 25 percent. You have to pay for
9 a catalytic convertor on your car, do you
10 not, and the emission system and everything
11 else, well, they could just spew it over and
12 put you out after a job with cheap goods.
13 It's really ashame, so we really do need to
14 get away from paper industries and all they
15 generate is paper and office space generates
16 recycling of paper as far as I'm concerned.
17 Have a god night. Thank you.
18 MR. MCGOFF: Bill Jackowitz.
19 MR. JACKOWITZ: Bill Jackowitz, South
20 Scranton resident, member of the Scranton
21 Taxpayers' Association. 2010 we will have
22 three new council members, maybe four. My
23 hope is that a new council will also mean
24 new ideas, working together, including the
25 residents, not excluding the residents.
1 Open caucuses for a public to attend not
2 held in caged tiny offices in the back of
3 the council office also televised so that
4 the residents at home can also be informed.
5 Scranton was must come up with ways
6 to raise revenue not taxes. Taxes must be
7 reduced. Wage tax, mercantile tax, property
8 tax, all of these taxes have been and will
9 continue to be the downfall of Scranton.
10 Just ask any person who has moved from
11 Scranton to the surrounding community why
12 they moved or ask a small business owner why
13 they relocated or went out of business.
14 Always the same answer: Taxes too high.
15 Just look at the past history,
16 population decline, business failures,
17 downtown vacant buildings and store fronts.
18 A $16 million library is not the answer.
19 Yes, not everybody can afford a computer in
20 Scranton. Why? Could it be that
21 unemployment is at 8.6 percent? Minimum
22 family income the lowest in the state. Per
23 capita income the lowest in the state. No
24 job creation in the city that pays family
25 sustaining wages of 3.4 percent wage tax,
1 distressed city status and Recovery Plan
2 that does not recover anything except more
3 debt, new hires and pay raises for the
4 selected few.
5 These are issues, not a knew library
6 in south Scranton. Many years ago South
7 Scranton had a library on Pittston Avenue,
8 Scranton population over 100,000 then.
9 Single tax office, the law has been
10 violated is continuing to be broken. Single
11 Tax Law 1929. What are you going to do
12 about that? As a taxpayer, I know as much
13 about what happened at the single tax office
14 today as I did 14 months ago. Nothing.
15 Whatever happened to fair, honest and open
16 government? Why has Kenny McDowell not been
17 required to answer any questions and give
18 explanations about his public service as tax
20 I have asked these questions for
21 weeks. No answers. If you are not going to
22 answer at least give me the courtesy to tell
23 me why you will not answer the questions
24 during your motions.
25 MR. MCGOFF: Excuse me, you did get
1 an answer on why Mr. McDowell is not here,
2 it was just given more before. It's still
3 in the courts.
4 MR. JACKOWITZ: Exactly, but I'm not
5 talking about that, I'm talking about why
6 the district attorney has not initiated an
7 investigation, Mr. McGoff, into the crimes
8 that were broken.
9 MS. GATELLI: He answered that, too.
10 MR. JACKOWITZ: There's a violation
11 of the Single Tax Office 1929.
12 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Jackowitz, do you
13 have a copy of the letter that we got from
15 MR. JACKOWITZ: I do not have a copy
16 of it, no, I do not.
17 MS. GATELLI: We will give you a copy
18 of that because he did answer it.
19 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay.
20 MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Garvey will have
22 MR. FANUCCI: And actually Attorney
23 Minora could you answer about the law in 19
24 -- you know, it's claiming 00.
25 MR. JACKOWITZ: The laws have been
2 MS. FANUCCI: He is saying the law
3 has been violated, can you explain.
4 MR. JACKOWITZ: Single Tax Law of
5 1929 and that's not a year that's the number
6 of the law 1929.
7 MS. FANUCCI: Right.
8 MR. JACKOWITZ: It's made publicized
9 and I've been informed by the Federal Bureau
10 of investigation they have informed me that
11 the law has been broken and somebody should
12 do something about it.
13 MS. GATELLI: Do you have a copy of
14 that, Bill?
15 MR. JACKOWITZ: I could probably get
16 one if I really need to, but it's not my
17 job. I'm not the district attorney.
18 MS. FANUCCI: Yeah, well, neither
19 are we, Bill.
20 MR. MCGOFF: Please.
21 MR. JACKOWITZ: I understand that. I
22 understand that. I hope my time is not
23 being --
24 MR. MCGOFF: Please continue, I'm
1 MR. JACKOWITZ: No problem. Okay,
2 voting "yes" all of the time is not the
3 answer. Voting "no" all of the time is not
4 the answer either. Each vote should be
5 thoroughly researched and discussed before
6 you cast that vote. Remember, every vote
7 that is it taken by city council effects
8 every citizen of Scranton. One person,
9 Mayor Doherty, is not always correct. Many
10 of his ideas have been failures such as
11 borrowing to balance budgets, glass to send
12 us all on sand or icy snow covered roads,
13 downtown improvements, Recovery Plan that
14 has not been implemented, selling off city
15 assets, arbitrations and court cases,
16 5.5 million into the budget without having
17 the money available, ECTV, and most
18 importantly, his reluctance to appear and
19 speak to the residents of Scranton. He
20 prefers to speak with the Chamber of
22 Tonight's vote on the office park
23 KOZ's, can the residents afford to continue
24 to give away property to developers and
25 business owners who are not willing to pay
1 for the services that will be provided to
2 them by the Scranton taxpayers? 25 percent
3 of the population in Scranton do not pay
4 taxes currently.
5 Job creation is great. New business
6 in the city is also great, but is it
7 progress if they are not willing to pay
8 their fair share. Remember -- may I finish?
9 MR. MCGOFF: Um-hum.
10 MR. JACKOWITZ: Remember, if you
11 want to hear your band you must pay the
12 band. KOZ's have not helped the City of
13 Scranton progress in the past. If KOZ have
14 helped the city we would no longer be in the
15 distressed city status. I am not against
16 progress, I am against give-aways. You milk
17 cows, not taxpayers. City revenue is based
18 upon tax revenue. If you pay no taxes, what
19 revenue does the city have? What are we
20 promoting? Move to Scranton and pay no
21 taxes? Is that really progress? If they
22 want to move to Olyphant or Peckville, let
23 them go. We will still get the wage tax
24 because Scranton residents will be working
1 MR. MCGOFF: Marie Schumacher.
2 MS. SCHUMACHER: Good evening. Marie
3 Schumacher, resident and member of the
4 Taxpayers' Association. I was happy to read
5 that Rip Van Pennsylvania Economy League has
6 finally awakened. I believe this will be
7 PEL's third attempt at a Recovery Plan. I
8 pray Recovery plans work as does baseball,
9 three strikes and you are out.
10 Now my favorite topic of late, the
11 $600,000 rent owed pie BRT Ice to the City
12 of Scranton. Solicitor Minora was kind
13 enough last week to point out that I have
14 the incorrect agreement. I now have the
15 correct agreement of which I will read the
16 section on payment of rent that includes the
17 three conditions that must be met:
18 "Lessee shall $600,000 to lessor as
19 rent for the lease premises. Lessee shall
20 make minimum annual payments every 12 months
21 begin beginning on the date hereof in the
22 amount of no less than $1 provided, however,
23 that any unpaid rent under this paragraph
24 shall be paid by the lessee to lessor in a
25 lump sum within 30 days following the
1 occurrence of the last to occur of: One,
2 vacation of the lease premises by DPW in
3 total as on the date provided for hereunder;
4 or, two, certification of the lease land by
5 the City of Scranton Planning Commission as
6 within a redevelopment area as that term is
7 defined by law, approved by redevelopment
8 contract for the lease land including
9 transfer of the lease land to the lessee by
10 the SRA and approval of said redevelopment
11 contract by city council."
12 Clearly DPW has vacated the
13 premises. City planner, Don King, reports
14 that the certification has occurred leaving
15 only the final conditions. So I return to
16 my former question, three years ago the SRA
17 sent the agreement to council for approval
18 and it was never placed on the agenda, so
19 why hasn't council requested the SRA to
20 draft an acceptable agreement so the city
21 may see the $600,000 rent where ordered, we
22 are owed.
23 Finally, I would like to speak to
24 the KOZ extension, which I hope will be
25 rejected. First, if this development is to
1 be the first spinoff of benefit to the
2 Community Medical College's host community,
3 any financial benefit will be negated if all
4 taxes are suspended for seven years. The
5 benefit to a medical complex such as is
6 being advertised, but not put into a
7 contract I might add, is the proximity to
8 the medical college provided by the Scranton
9 host community, that alone should be
11 Second, the Scranton Plan, the
12 industrial marketing arm of the Greater
13 Scranton Chamber of Commerce, provides a
14 chart on it's website illustrating annual
15 savings for various scenarios for KOZ's.
16 The range of annual savings for the closest
17 scenario, a pharmaceutical company with
18 20,000 square feet and 500 employees ranges
19 from 2 million to $2.4 million.
20 Now, if the Mt. Pleasant provides
21 the advertised 1,000 jobs that is five times
22 the savings or $10 million to $12 million of
23 state and local taxes that are avoided each
24 year for seven years.
25 This council failed to request
1 legislative support for the tax exempt
2 property municipal fund which would have
3 provided funds to help offset the loss of
4 property taxes from the 25 percent of
5 properties that are permanently off the tax
6 roles. Coincidentally, today's
7 Times-Tribune had an article about Benco
8 Dental opening a headquarters and
9 distribution center in Center Point Park in
10 Jenkins Township which is in Luzerne County.
11 The Center Point Park Center is a local
12 economic redevelopment tax assist or LERTA.
13 A LERTA that may exempt a tax exemption up
14 to the actual cost of the development. This
15 type of incentive would be far more
16 appropriate for the Mount Pleasant Park as
17 it would provide an incentive without
18 burdening the existing property and business
19 owners by forcing them to subsidize Mount
20 Pleasant for seven years. May I finish?
21 MR. MCGOFF: Please.
22 MS. SCHUMACHER: As we have been
23 told, the money must come from somewhere and
24 that somewhere turns out to be us taxpayers.
25 Vote this KOZ extension down. Borrowing via
1 bonds will also be expensive if it's even
2 possible, so we must get all of the revenue
3 we can and save every place we can.
4 And I will end with one announcement
5 that the food down at the Greek festival at
6 the church one block away is fantastic.
7 Thank you.
8 MR. MCGOFF: Any other speakers?
9 MR. UNGVARSKY: Good evening, city
10 council. I'm Tom Ungvarsky. Over the last
11 few years speakers at this podium have asked
12 for Mr. Austin Burke to come here and
13 explain just what the Chamber of Commerce
14 does do for this city. He has never
15 appeared. A few months ago when he wanted a
16 KOZ he did come into the office of the City
17 Council, but he could not appear here. He
18 gave the council his plan for Mount
19 Pleasant. However, unlike Mr. Boscov, who
20 was gentleman enough to come here and
21 explain what he had in store or what he
22 wanted from the city, Mr. Burke would not
23 come out here.
24 MR. MCGOFF: Excuse me, that was by
25 our decision, not his.
1 MR. UNGVARSKY: Well, excuse me,
2 whether it's by your decision or his he
3 still should have been man enough to come
4 out here and explain to the people what he
5 wanted to do and what it was going to cost
6 us. That KOZ up there has already got
7 several million dollars to put in the
8 structural plan of it. They have gone far
9 enough of whether you vote that or not, they
10 are going to go ahead with that project.
11 Should that project go through as a
12 KOZ there will be no property taxes
13 collected for another ten years. There will
14 be no mercantile tax collected there for
15 another ten years and there will be no wage
16 tax collected there for another ten years.
17 That means people like myself who for the
18 last 30 years have been paying our property
19 taxes and our fees will have to bite the
20 bullet and pay even more. I hope this city
21 council comes to it's senses and votes it
23 MS. ROYCE: Hi. Good evening.
24 Bernadette Royce, West Scranton. I'm going
25 to keep this very short and very sweet this
1 evening. Obviously, couldn't have been here
2 last week, I had work. My red and white
3 firehouse sign is still present. It will
4 stay there despite the election results and
5 despite any cheerleaders of the mayor who
6 want to get here and throw any temper
7 tantrums which they do every so often
8 complaining that I need to take my red and
9 white firehouse sign. My sign will stay
10 there until I am sure that the mayor will
11 not cut the firehouses by 50 percent in this
12 city like he has pledged to do.
13 I believe last week, I was able to
14 watch the city council meeting, that
15 Mrs. Evans said that she has yet to receive
16 and that the council has yet to receive the
17 mayor's letter stating what his plans are.
18 It has been two months since the mayor
19 stated in the Scranton Times that he has no
20 plans to close the fire companies. It's
21 been two months in his office and it's just
22 down the hall. Does it really take him two
23 months time to walk a letter down the hall?
24 I don't think it should take him two months
25 time to respond to the city council. There
1 is also this thing called e-mail if he
2 hasn't heard it. He talks about wanting to
3 move forward in the city, well, he can send
4 an e-mail then if he really wants to move
6 So I think we all know that he will
7 close the firehouses when given the
8 opportunity, so my red and white sign will
9 stay there and the citizens of Scranton need
10 to be aware that the mayor needs to be
11 stopped in his plans. Thank you very much
12 and have a good evening.
13 MR. SLEDENZSKI: Hi, Judes?
14 MS. GATELLI: Hi, Chrissy.
15 MR. SLEDENZSKI: Hello, Bill.
16 MR. COURTRIGHT: Hi, Chris.
17 MR. SLEDENZSKI: Up, Bill?
18 MR. COURTRIGHT: Pick it up, Buddy.
19 MR. SLEDENZSKI: Judy, I had enough
20 of it this week. No more Scranton, Judy.
21 I'm going back to West Scranton. I'm going
22 back home, baby.
23 MS. GATELLI: All right.
24 MR. SLEDENZSKI: I'm going back home,
1 MS. DOMINICK: Donna Dominick,
2 homeowner, taxpayer. I just have one
3 question, you can answer about it, Bill. Is
4 there any particular reason why all patrol
5 cars aren't equipped with a cage for
7 MR. COURTRIGHT: Is there a
8 particular reason?
9 MS. DOMINICK: Yeah.
10 MR. COURTRIGHT: No. There is many
11 that don't have them.
12 MS. DOMINICK: Right.
13 MR. COURTRIGHT: Why --
14 MR. DOMINICK: It just seems that if
15 like Car 18 is tied up or other cars are on
16 call and then the guy that doesn't have a
17 cage is transporting has to wait and see if
18 somebody is available to do transport for
19 him, it would just seem like -- you would
20 think to make it easier across the board
21 they would all have a cage.
22 MR. COURTRIGHT: You know, Donna, I
23 addressed that with Captain Graziano and he
24 had given me a sheet several months ago of
25 which cars had them and which ones didn't
1 and he was trying to more cars because it's
2 a problem, you are right.
3 MS. DOMINICK: It is.
4 MR. COURTRIGHT: We never have
5 transport vehicles.
6 MS. DOMINICK: Right.
7 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'll talk to Captain
8 Graziano again and see where we stand.
9 MR. DOMINICK: Okay. Thanks, Bill.
10 MR COURTRIGHT: All right? You are
12 MS. DOMINICK: Good night.
13 MR. ANCHERANI: Good evening. Nelson
14 Ancherani, First Amendment Rights. It looks
15 look the Recovery Plan was brought to the
16 forefront again by the slimes. The state is
17 working on the plan now. Wow. We can
18 really have faith in this one. Fred
19 Reading, PA Economy League, the head,
20 finally got his head out of the sand and is
21 getting ready to write another Recovery Plan
22 to replace the one that was violated from
23 the beginning by this administration and
24 which expired in 2005.
25 PEL never did anything about the
1 violations except bury their heads in the
2 sand. The Courts proved it. It expired in
3 2006 when the Courts gave the unions raises
4 for six, seven and eight.
5 A quote from the slimes: "The state
6 will also evaluate revenue streams to target
7 more ways to generate funds."
8 Watch out, Scranton taxpayers.
9 Remember when a Mr. Cross from PEL along
10 with the begging bankers were here at the
11 end of 2006 and said that the city was in
12 dire financial straights if we didn't pass
13 the $44 million loan and enact a 25 percent
14 tax increase. We got the 25 percent tax
15 increase and Ms. Fanucci and Mrs. Gatelli
16 and Mr. McGoff passed it. Looks like my
17 predictions are going to come true again.
18 Another quote from the slimes:
19 "When Mr. Doherty ran for mayor the first
20 time, among his core promises was to repair
21 city finances, but the same fundamental
22 problem exists, Scranton spends more money
23 than it takes in. The structural deficit is
24 around $6 million according to Mr. Renda."
25 The truth finally be told, that has
1 been said for years. BS, reckless BS,
2 borrow, spend. Woah, bend over taxpayers
3 here comes the next 25 percent tax increase
4 Freddy and the banking beggers wanted for
5 2007. How else would they plug that
6 deficit? Add five million to that money we
7 don't get from the tax office and we have an
8 11 million deficit. Maybe it will be a
9 higher tax increase or millions more in
10 borrowing. Our grandkids better have good
11 paying jobs to be able to pay back that
12 approximately 300 million in long-term debt.
13 Another quote from the slimes: "The
14 budget meanwhile swelled by 20.4 million
15 between 2002 and 2009."
16 That was for 2009, but they didn't
17 say in 2008 the budget swelled by
18 26.4 million and the total of the increases
19 of all of the budgets from 2002 through 2009
20 is 108 million. 108 million more excess
21 over the budgets themselves.
22 Another quote from the slimes:
23 "Fueled by a debt service that increased
24 158 percent," 158 percent. And now has a
25 long-term debt of approximately 300 million.
1 Another quote from the slimes:
2 "Health insurance costs have spiked
3 47 percent."
4 It spiked because the mayor fired
5 the health care consultant who saved the
6 city $5 million by straightening out of the
7 system she inherited. A hundred city
8 employees were forced out of their jobs at
9 the end of 2002 with full benefits and 100
10 people that replaced them are receiving full
12 Another quote from the slimes:
13 "Personnel costs, including health care,
14 still make up the majority of expenses, but
15 not as much as they once did. Spending on
16 salaries is up 6.7 percent."
17 The slimes forgot to say that the
18 mayor spent 20 million on cumulative raises
19 in new hires for favorites since 2003.
20 That's where the 6.7 percent increase is,
21 not the police or fire.
22 Another quote from the slimes: "The
23 city is not a business."
24 The mayor said that. We said that
25 since he said it wasn't a business
1 approximately eight years ago. We said it's
2 a service provider. Proof? Police to
3 protect and serve.
4 By the way, anyone care to guess
5 which firehouses or companies will be closed
6 now that May 19 is past? I can hear the
7 griping now, "Not my firehouse."
8 Thank you.
9 MR. MCGOFF: Mrs. Gatelli?
10 MS. GATELLI: I just have a few
11 things. We did get an answer to my request
12 last week concerning the hiring of a
13 controller in the Single Tax Office. The
14 answer was that they are working on it with
15 the three taxing bodies concerning the
16 hiring of a controller. I don't think we
17 got an answer to the solicitor -- the
18 question about having their own solicitor.
19 MS. GARVEY: No.
20 MS. GATELLI: The rental registration
21 program, if Kay could please send a letter
22 to the mayor concerning hiring someone to do
23 the registrations I would appreciate that,
24 and also to paint the arrows in the turning
25 lanes on Mulberry and Wyoming.
1 Also, I was curious, I read an
2 article and I think it was in the Electric
3 City, they were advertising the KOZ's in
4 Keyser Terrace, and I noticed that in the
5 advertisement they have that the KOZ was in
6 effect until 2014, so I was wondering why
7 that was extended. I thought they were all
8 up in 2010, so if you could please find out
9 when all of the KOZ's are being terminated.
10 MS. FANUCCI: Judy, what was the
12 MS. GATELLI: It said 2014.
13 MS. FANUCCI: Was it a KOEZ? Because
14 I think were longer.
15 MS. GATELLI: I'm not sure. It's for
16 housing. Keyser Terrace is all housing.
17 MS. FANUCCI: Yeah, I think it's
19 MS. GATELLI: Well, then maybe the
20 ad was wrong, but if you could find that
21 out --
22 MS. FANUCCI: That still be would
23 four years.
24 MS. GATELLI: -- I would appreciate
25 it that, and that's all I have. Thank you.
1 MR. MCGOFF: Ms. Fanucci?
2 MS. FANUCCI: You want me to go? All
3 right then. We have three of the loans of
4 the agenda, a lot of people spoke on them
5 tonight. The only way I could -- you know,
6 I say this over and over again and I am I
7 sure it falls on deaf ears to some, but
8 people are putting 300 and 500 thousand
9 dollars into these businesses. We are not
10 talking about the fact that these people are
11 not putting anything in. A lot of money is
12 being spent out of their pocket. They are
13 looking for a little bit more working
14 capital and creating jobs to boot. Most of
15 them create many more than they are supposed
16 to create. You know, some of them are
17 looking at three permanent jobs as required
18 by the state, well, they are coming up with
19 30, four management positions, five
20 actually, five in one, five management
22 I understand that the impression is
23 that because we are loaning this money out,
24 and it's a loan, that it's sound like these
25 people are getting a free ride. Well, if
1 you coming to me with $500,000 and are
2 willing to put it in my city, all of our
3 city, we should be thankful right now in
4 this economy that three businesses are
5 willing to expand and put the money here. I
6 don't understand how this is a problem or an
7 issue all the time. I really don't. I
8 don't get it.
9 Is it because you have never opened
10 a business and you don't understand? Is it
11 because you can't -- you don't want other
12 people to come here or give a shot to
13 whatever their dream is or whatever they
14 feel they want to do? It's very sad to me
15 that it's not something that you can grasp
16 on an daily basis. People are putting money
17 here. Does that mean that $85,000 we should
18 say, "Get lost. Take your $500,000 and go
19 and Jessup or go somewhere else because we
20 don't want you because you want to borrow
21 $85,000 and pay us back and create 30 jobs,
22 that's ridiculous."
23 I don't get it. Yes, I will always,
24 always pass job creation and loans and
25 encourage people to open businesses in this
1 city, just because it might not be a
2 business you personally think you will use,
3 doesn't mean that they aren't other people
4 in the city who want to use it. So I will
5 be, obviously, very proud to pass this
7 As far as the KOZ is concerned, this
8 is another thing, I mean, we didn't create
9 this program. Scranton didn't decide this
10 was something we wanted to do. People say
11 what are the benefits? We get nothing out
12 of the KOZ. Well, you know what, you get
13 union jobs, first of all, let's just start
14 there, your unions are going to work and
15 building the KOZ. Not a bad deal
16 considering most unions are looking for work
17 all the time, so should we be happy about
18 that? I think we should.
19 The people when they get the payroll
20 want to spend it here. So, yeah, if you
21 want to send them somewhere else that's
22 where they are spending their money. 1,000
23 people spending I don't care if it's a
24 dollar a day at a gas station it's a dollar
25 a day that we didn't get last time, last
1 year at this time.
2 So, yeah, is it a wash for awhile?
3 Probably, unless you are a business owner
4 and you are waiting for that guy to come in
5 and buy a soda or waiting in that restaurant
6 or somebody to come in and by what they are
7 eating. So, yes, maybe personally you are
8 not benefiting, maybe personally you are
9 not, but that doesn't mean that the
10 residents aren't benefiting.
11 So you need to look beyond what your
12 personal opinions are and look about other
13 people who have put money into the city and
14 believe in the city and say, well, okay,
15 maybe not for me, but somebody is making
16 something off of it and that's better
17 because most people in the country right now
18 are closing. Businesses. You think they
19 are all billionaires right now. If you look
20 around look at the country, sorry to say,
21 they are hurting. Everyone is hurting.
22 So, should we encourage them? I
23 don't know, I think so. I would rather have
24 business than not have business. 20 percent
25 when they move here in this city, say they
1 relocate, they have to expand by 20 percent
2 from what they relocated from, so that's
3 20 percent more employees than they had
4 previously. They have to maintain that
5 every single year or they don't get KOZ
6 status, so say they do not agree and they do
7 not commit and do not fulfill what they are
8 obligated to do, the KOZ status will be
9 removed, so there are checks and balances.
10 People say, "What did we get off of
11 the last KOZ's?"
12 Well, quite frankly, we have people
13 here. We have houses that weren't here.
14 You have people where there wasn't people
15 before living and paying and buying. That's
16 a good thing. Eventually, which is now,
17 2010, we are so close, all that money is
18 coming in in 2010 and if you honestly
19 believe that people are packing up and
20 leaving in mass exodus out of their homes
21 and out of their businesses and out of their
22 lives I don't believe it. I don't. They
23 built their lives here just like you did and
24 just like I did, so I don't believe they are
25 going to be leaving.
1 Do I think that it's a great idea or
2 a wonderful deal for us to have KOZ's and
3 nonprofits everywhere? No. Quite frankly,
4 I'd love for everybody to have to pay their
5 share. The problem is it's a state program,
6 it's available. Most the money comes from
7 the state tax that they are saving so you
8 are paying it anyway. If they go somewhere
9 else out of your city, some other place, you
10 are still paying the tax. You are still
11 bailing them out. So do you want to bail
12 them out and put them in your backyard and
13 hope to God that your neighbor is making
14 some money off of them? I would I think you
15 would. I certainly do. I want them here.
16 And I'll tell you right now if the
17 University of Scranton picked up and told me
18 they were leaving I would fight to keep them
19 here as far as I can. You don't want people
20 to leave this city because of KOZ because
21 they can go somewhere else. You don't want
22 people to leave these city with their
23 nonprofits because these people are the
24 people that keep this city going. It's not
25 just you and I. It's everyone who is at
1 these jobs. So do I love the fact that I
2 have to say another freebie and taxes? No.
3 But you know what, if I don't say "yes" to
4 this all of those other people did and they
5 gone and I want them here.
6 As far as me agreeing with the mayor
7 all the time and passing his legislation as
8 a rubber stamper, I agree with him. I agree
9 with his plan and guess what, a lot of other
10 people do, too. He just won again. Just
11 because you don't agree with what I agree
12 with don't say I just do it just to do it
13 because you are wrong. I only do what I
14 believe in if there is nothing you have
15 learned from me this four years you should
16 know. I didn't pass legislation for that
17 huge borrowing that he wanted to do. I
18 didn't do it. Why? Because I didn't want
19 to, but I do what I want and I do it for the
20 right reasons, so please don't get up here
21 week after week for the next few months of
22 my -- what's left for me to accomplish what
23 I need to accomplish and talk about the fact
24 that I only do what he wants. I believe in
25 him just like so many people in this city
1 do, just like you believe in Mrs. Evans and
2 her plan or her lack thereof, whatever.
3 You have a choice to believe who you
4 want to and so do I. I will be voting for
5 any job creation in this city, I will not
6 stop, I have done that and if you look at my
7 record I have never not done that. Job
8 creation is what is key to getting us to
9 where we need to be to increase the tax
10 base, and that is all I have. Thank you.
11 MR. MCGOFF: Mr. Courtright.
12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Okay, Kay, I need
13 you to send a letter down to Mr. Brazil, you
14 can send one letter for both things. I
15 asked that they did a crosswalk there at the
16 Trinity Church on the corner of Main Avenue
17 and Division Street because I actually did
18 go by there on Sunday and the signs are out
19 there, and that's great, but the people
20 don't seem to know where to cross, so if
21 they can put something there that would be
22 good, and I'm going to be a pest with this
23 one because I think it's important they
24 still have not done anything with Forest
25 Glenn Drive, you know, the DPW has come up
1 on more than one occasion and patched it,
2 but it just doesn't last and needs to be
3 graded and paved, just the section. I'm not
4 asking for the whole road. I have only seen
5 one person so far go off the road, but there
6 could have been more when I wasn't there. I
7 think there is going to be a head-on
8 accident, so if you can just send that again
9 and maybe they get sick of me and do
11 People ask me about, I don't even
12 want to bring this up, but maybe I'll give a
13 little bit of an education about can't the
14 police use some other kind of way to stop
15 the people other than, you know, shooting.
16 We do have what they call less than lethal.
17 It's where they shoot a beanbag more or
18 less, but not every officer has it with
19 them. They have one in every so many cars
20 that they carry with them and you don't
21 always know that you need it. You know, you
22 go on an incident that could be harmless
23 and, boom, it turns into something terrible.
24 You know, that's usually what happens.
25 Usually the calls that they go on and they
1 think are going to be bad aren't as bad as
2 they think and the ones they think nothing
3 is going to happen they escalate into
4 something really bad.
5 I believe we were in the possession
6 of tasers at the time when this incident
7 happened, but I don't believe they were on
8 the road yet, I don't believe the people
9 were trained on them yet. I do believe we
10 have some people trained on them now, I'm
11 not 100 percent sure about that, so I'll
12 leave it at that for now.
13 5-F, I have no problem with loaning
14 that company because it's a new startup
15 company the money, my problem is that they
16 are going to a KOZ and they are getting 1
17 percent, so I'm letting them know if you
18 were getting 5 percent like everybody else I
19 would have voted "yes." I understand that,
20 you know, you are planning on creating
21 several jobs, but they are only required to
22 create three, and there is no guarantee. I
23 hope they create several, there is no
24 guarantee, but the fact that they are going
25 into a KOZ and not end up paying taxes
1 coupled with the 1 percent is what is going
2 to make me vote "no." If they were 5
3 percent like everyone else, they are a
4 startup company, and they are taking
5 advantage of the KOZ, I can't blame them for
7 I can't blame a company, I'll tell
8 you what, you can't blame a company for
9 trying to get the KOZ status. I mean, in
10 business you try to get the best deal you
11 can get for yourself. So, you know, I don't
12 blame the Commonwealth for trying to get the
13 status, it's just good business on their
14 part. It's available. You know, if I had a
15 business like that I would probably be going
16 after it, too, but I'm bothered by the fact
17 that they're going to be a KOZ plus they are
18 going to get the 1 percent. If by some
19 chance if they would change it to 5 percent
20 I would vote "yes". And that's all I have.
21 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you. First, in
22 response to someone speakers about the land
23 or the building at Nay Aug that Lackawanna
24 College is going to be using, it is my
25 understanding that that building is being
1 leased or the intent is to lease it to
2 Lackawanna not to give it to them as their
3 property. I'm told that is the plan. I
4 don't know that there is any specific lease
5 agreement yet in place, but I do know that
6 it is -- that building is not just being
7 given to Lackawanna College. It will remain
8 part of Nay Aug Park and whatever title goes
9 with it.
10 Secondly, in response to some
11 comments about the Single Tax Office and not
12 getting answers, I believe the council has
13 made -- has exhausted itself in attempts to
14 get information from the Single Tax Office.
15 We have been to the Courts, we have been to
16 the solicitor, we have talked to the tax
17 collector, we have tried everything to get a
18 response. We have been as frustrated as
19 anyone else in our attempts to get answers.
20 And in terms of asking Mr. McDowell,
21 as Attorney Minora said, we have, you know,
22 we have gone to Court in an attempt to get
23 Mr. McDowell before council and it is still
24 in the courts. We can't control what other
25 people do. I would not -- we don't have
1 control over what the District Attorney's
2 Office does or any other police agency or
3 policing agency. All we can do is ask the
4 same questions that maybe you are asking and
5 hopefully get responses. When we get
6 responses, we have attempted to pass them
7 along to you. That may be frustrating, but
8 it's just as frustrating for us, you know,
9 sitting here.
10 And as far as Mr. Burke coming to
11 the caucus and not coming into council
12 chambers, he was never asked to come into
13 council chambers. He was asked by me to
14 come to a caucus and to meet with council in
15 the office. He never -- he never refused to
16 come into council chambers. I think that's
17 a misrepresentation what Mr. Burke did. On
18 a number of occasions he has indicated he
19 would be more than willing to talk to
20 members of council about any of the
22 And, lastly, as far as the -- and
23 this may be premature, but we are working
24 towards it, the KOZ extensions I have a
25 number of things to say on it. As Mrs.
1 Fanucci indicated, this is not a program
2 that is isolated to the City of Scranton.
3 KOZ's are -- it's a state program and these
4 extensions are being granted throughout the
5 state. This is not something that we are
6 being asked to do isolated in the City of
7 Scranton. KOZ extensions are being granted
8 throughout the state to any -- I shouldn't
9 say to any, but to worthy projects and they
10 are being granted by the state, not by the
12 The county commissioners are in
13 agreement, have offered their support to
14 this extension program. We have a letter
15 from the county commissioners in which they
16 have stated their support for the extensions
17 and have already I believe in either Jessup
18 or Archbald have -- that application has
19 already been approved.
20 I believe that these extensions, I
21 don't want to say may be necessary, in to
22 order to keep Scranton competitive with
23 other areas, businesses, and I am told this
24 by any number of people, one of the first
25 questions that business owners ask when they
1 are looking to move into an area or to
2 relocate or to start a new business are
3 there KOZ's available and if they are not
4 available in Scranton then they will go
5 somewhere else to find them, be it Jessup,
6 Archbald, Hazelton or some other part of the
7 state. I think in order for Scranton to be
8 competitive in attracting jobs and in
9 attracting businesses the KOZ extensions are
10 something that we need to -- we need to
12 Also, Mount Pleasant, the one we are
13 looking at tonight, has produced little or
14 no income to the city for a period of time.
15 To say that we are losing anything is I
16 believe ludicrous. By granting an
17 extension, by attracting businesses we are
18 -- we are bringing the potential of jobs
19 and income to this city that did not exist
20 before and will not exist unless these KOZ's
21 are available, and we seem to talk about,
22 you know, what are we going to do about
23 long-term debt. Well, if we are looking to
24 deal with long-term debt then you have to
25 look at long-term as far as where we can get
1 revenue, and you will start to realize the
2 benefits of the first KOZ program very soon,
3 and in the long-term if we attract
4 businesses, as Mrs. Fanucci did say,
5 businesses that come and move into these
6 areas they are not going to just get up and
7 move because the KOZ has terminated.
8 Successful businesses are going to stay and
9 they are going to stay in the location where
10 they are been successful, and so if we are
11 looking for long-term benefit there you have
12 it. If we are looking for ways of paying
13 off long-term debt, there you have it.
14 Create long-term income. Create something
15 that's going to exist well into the future
16 and not look in the sort term.
17 And also, if we are looking to
18 reduce taxes then I think there are two
19 different ways to reduce taxes: One, create
20 more jobs, create more income, so that we
21 are not reliant on property taxes. And the
22 second thing is to increase -- increase the
23 tax base, and that's what KOZ's do. They
24 increase the tax base over a long-term.
25 Properties that are coming out of
1 the KOZ's in the near future, those are
2 going to be taxable into the future. It's
3 not just the homes that were built in Keyser
4 Terrace, in Tripp Park and whatever other
5 KOZ, you know, properties there are. Those
6 are homes that are going to stay there.
7 They are not going to disappear when the
8 KOZ's terminate. People will pay taxes on
9 those. People are not going to get up and
10 move out of them, even if they do move out
11 of them, somebody will still own them,
12 somebody will still need to pay taxes on
13 them. They are not going to disappear, and
14 I think we are looking into very often we
15 are just too sort term in what we are
16 looking at when we talk about the KOZ's.
17 And I know I'm kind of rambling
18 around about some things, it's just ideas
19 that came to me in dealing with this. The
20 property at Mt. Pleasant has been a blight
21 on this city for a number of years and now
22 it's going to be the potential of five
23 viable businesses. If nothing else, getting
24 rid of that culm dump that existed there and
25 improving that property, that alone would
1 for me justify extending the KOZ's, and I
2 think it has to be understood that we are
3 only offering support. We are passing -- we
4 are voting on a resolution that would offer
5 support to the application that is being
6 made. We are not deciding to extend these
7 KOZ's. All we are saying is that we give
8 our support to people that are willing to
9 spend money and willing to develop this land
10 in the future.
11 Also, it does not deal with every
12 KOZ. The state law for the extensions of
13 KOZ's deals only with unoccupied,
14 undeveloped KOZ properties. It is not an
15 extension of every KOZ property in the
16 state, it is only on undeveloped properties.
17 And so again, the properties that
18 originally were developed under the original
19 KOZ program they are not affected. They are
20 not going to be extended. They will start
21 to pay taxes in the year 2010, and so again,
22 I think it's it needs to be understood what
23 it is that we are dealing with here. It's
24 the only extension on undeveloped KOZ
1 And I think if you went to some
2 people who built homes, started businesses,
3 under the original KOZ program I think that
4 they would tell you that it was well worth
5 it. How many municipal employees are living
6 in KOZ properties and would be probably, you
7 know, say, "Great idea," you know, "We
8 benefited, other people should benefit."
9 I think that the extensions that are
10 being asked for are worth us considering it.
11 I think they are worth our support. It will
12 benefit the city initially by creating jobs,
13 by bringing more people to the area, union
14 jobs as Mrs. Fanucci said, and to the
15 long -- into the future increase the tax
16 base, increase the number of jobs and a lot
17 allows to deal with some economic problems
18 that may exist into the long-term, into the
19 future. I don't think that I can stress
20 that enough. We are looking for how we can
21 deal with things in the future. Well, I
22 think here is a program that allows us to do
23 that, and I think that we will start to see
24 the benefits of the original program and I
25 think it's worth our support to help us into
1 the future find dealing with KOZ extensions,
2 and that is all I have.
3 MS. GARVEY: 5-B. FOR INTRODUCTION -
4 A RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND
5 OTHER APPROPRIATE CITY OFFICIALS TO EXECUTE
6 AND ENTER INTO ON BEHALF OF THE CITY OF
7 SCRANTON AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT WITH
8 THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA ACTING
9 THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
10 ("PENNDOT") TO AUTHORIZE ELECTRONIC ACCESS
11 TO PENNDOT SYSTEMS PARTICULARLY TO THE
12 dotGRANTS ON-LINE REPORTING SYSTEM FOR THE
13 PURPOSES OF ENTERING DATA, EXCHANGING
14 INFORMATION AND FILING REQUIRED LIQUID FUELS
15 FORMS ANNUALLY INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO
16 THE MS-965, MS-329 AND MS-999 FORMS AND TO
17 DESIGNATE THE CITY'S BUSINESS ADMINISTRATOR,
18 DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS, CITY ENGINEER,
19 FINANCE MANAGER AND SENIOR ACCOUNTANT AS
20 AUTHORIZED EMPLOYEES TO ACCESS THE SYSTEM.
21 MR. MCGOFF: At this time I'll
22 entertain a motion that Item 5-B be
23 introduced into it's proper committee.
24 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.
25 MS. FANUCCI: Second.
1 MR. MCGOFF: On the question? All
2 in favor signify by saying aye.
3 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
4 MS. GATELLI: Aye.
5 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
6 MR. MCGOFF: Aye. Opposed? The
7 ayes have it and so moved.
8 MS. GARVEY: 5-C. FOR INTRODUCTION -
9 A RESOLUTION - ACCEPTING OWNERSHIP AND
10 MAINTENANCE RESPONSIBILITY FOR TRAFFIC
11 SIGNAL DEVICE AT THE INTERSECTION OF KEYSER
12 AVENUE (S.R. 3011) AND DALTON STREET (S.R.
13 3014) AND DIVISION STREET AND ACCEPTING
14 TRAFFIC SIGNAL MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT NO.
15 04S005 BETWEEN THE COMMONWEALTH OF
16 PENNSYLVANIA, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
17 (COMMONWEALTH) AND THE CITY OF SCRANTON
18 (SUBDIVISION) THAT PERTAINS THERETO AS PART
19 OF THE KEYSER AVENUE PROJECT.
20 MR. MCGOFF: At this time I'll
21 entertain a motion that Item 5-C be
22 introduced into it's proper committee.
23 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.
24 MS. FANUCCI: Second.
25 MR. MCGOFF: On the question? All
1 in favor signify by saying aye.
2 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
3 MS. GATELLI: Aye.
4 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
5 MR. MCGOFF: Aye. Opposed? The
6 ayes have it and so moved.
7 MS. GARVEY: 5-D. FOR INTRODUCTION -
8 A RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND
9 OTHER APPROPRIATE CITY OFFICIALS FOR THE
10 CITY OF SCRANTON TO ENTER INTO A LOAN
11 AGREEMENT AND MAKE A LOAN FROM THE
12 COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL REVOLVING LOAN
13 PROGRAM, PROJECT NO. 150.23 IN AN AMOUNT NOT
14 TO EXCEED $50,000.00 TO GLEASON CUSTOM
15 KITCHENS INC. TO ASSIST AN ELIGIBLE PROJECT.
16 MR. MCGOFF: At this time I'll
17 entertain a motion that Item 5-D be
18 introduced into it's proper committee.
19 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.
20 MS. FANUCCI: Second.
21 MR. MCGOFF: On the question? All
22 those in favor signify by saying aye.
23 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
24 MS. GATELLI: Aye.
25 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
1 MR. MCGOFF: Aye. Opposed? The
2 ayes have it and so moved.
3 MS. GARVEY: 5-E. FOR INTRODUCTION -
4 A RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND
5 OTHER APPROPRIATE CITY OFFICIALS FOR THE
6 CITY OF SCRANTON TO ENTER INTO A LOAN
7 AGREEMENT AND MAKE A LOAN FROM THE COMMUNITY
8 DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT PROGRAM, PROJECT NO.
9 150.22 IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $35,000.00
10 TO BACKYARD ALE HOUSE, LLC TO ASSIST AN
11 ELIGIBLE PROJECT.
12 MR. MCGOFF: At this time I'll
13 entertain a motion that Item 5-E be
14 introduced into it's proper committee.
15 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.
16 MS. FANUCCI: Second.
17 MR. MCGOFF: On the question? All
18 in favor signify by saying aye.
19 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
20 MS. GATELLI: Aye.
21 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
22 MR. MCGOFF: Aye. Opposed? The
23 ayes have it and so moved.
24 MS. GARVEY: 5-F. FOR INTRODUCTION -
25 A RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND
1 OTHER APPROPRIATE CITY OFFICIALS TO EXECUTE
2 AND ENTER INTO A LOAN AGREEMENT IN THE
3 AMOUNT OF $85,000.00 BY AND BETWEEN THE CITY
4 OF SCRANTON AND LOCAL FOCAL, INC., A
5 PENNSYLVANIA CORPORATION, UNDER THE
6 ENTERPRISE ZONE REVOLVING LOAN FUND PROGRAM.
7 MR. MCGOFF: At this time I'll
8 entertain a motion that Item 5-F be
9 introduced into it's proper committee.
10 MS. FANUCCI: So moved.
11 MR. MCGOFF: Second. On the
13 MR. COURTRIGHT: On the question,
14 I'll just repeat what I said earlier, what's
15 making me vote in the negative is that the
16 fact they are going into a KOZ and plus only
17 paying the 1 percent. If they were paying
18 the 5 percent the people that other people
19 were paying I would be willing to vote
20 "yes", but I'm going to be voting "no" on
22 MS. GATELLI: I would also like to
23 make a motion to table this if this is the
24 appropriate time to see if we can't get them
25 to the 5 percent. I don't know if that's
2 MR. COURTRIGHT: Could we -- do we
3 have to vote first, Mr. Minora, or --
4 MR. MCGOFF: You can make a motion to
5 table at any time.
6 MS. GATELLI: I make a motion to
7 table this until we find out if we can
8 change the rate of the loan.
9 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'll second that.
10 MR. MCGOFF: On the question to
11 table? All in favor signify by saying aye.
12 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
13 MS. GATELLI: Aye.
14 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
15 MR. MCGOFF: Opposed? No. The ayes
16 have it and so moved.
17 MS. GARVEY: 5-G. FOR INTRODUCTION -
18 A RESOLUTION - A RESOLUTION EXTENDING THE
19 TERM OF REAL PROPERTY, EARNED INCOME TAX,
20 NET PROFITS, MERCANTILE TAX, AND BUSINESS
21 PRIVILEGE TAXES WITHIN A SPECIFIC GEOGRAPHIC
22 AREA MORE COMMONLY KNOWN AS MOUNT PLEASANT
23 CORPORATE CENTER, SCRANTON, PENNSYLVANIA,
24 WHICH IS A PORTION OF THE PROPERTY CONVEYED
25 TO SCRANTON LACKAWANNA INDUSTRIAL BUILDING
1 COMPANY (SLIBCO) BY DEED DATED MARCH 5,
2 2008, RECORDED IN THE LACKAWANNA COUNTY
3 RECORDER OF DEEDS OFFICE AS REFERENCE NO.
4 2008-05077, CONSISTING OF LOTS 2,3,4 AND 5
5 AS SHOWN ON PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION PLANS
6 RECORDED ON SEPTEMBER 30, 2008 IN MAP BOOK
7 6A, PAGE 6265, DESIGNATED AS A KEYSTONE
8 OPPORTUNITY ZONE IN ORDER TO FOSTER ECONOMIC
9 OPPORTUNITIES, STIMULATE INDUSTRIAL,
10 COMMERCIAL, AND RESIDENTIAL IMPROVEMENTS AND
11 PREVENT PHYSICAL AND INFRASTRUCTURE
12 DETERIORATION WITHIN THE ABOVE DESCRIBED
13 AREA OF THE CITY OF SCRANTON, COMMONWEALTH
14 OF PENNSYLVANIA, UPON CERTAIN TERMS AND
16 MR. MCGOFF: At this time I'll
17 entertain a motion that Item 5-G be
18 introduced into it's proper committee.
19 MS. FANUCCI: So moved.
20 MR. MCGOFF: I'll second. On the
22 MR. COURTRIGHT: On the question,
23 again, I know a lot of people say we have
24 our minds made up always before this comes
25 up, I've got mixed emotions when it comes to
1 KOZ's, I really do. Yes, we will be seeing
2 -- the city will receive revenue in the near
3 future for some of the KOZ's, and that's a
4 great thing and we sorely need the money. I
5 think I spoke last week, when we campaign
6 you see the city like in a different light
7 than when your average every day life goes
8 on, and you talk to a lot more people and we
9 out there asking them to vote for us, so we
10 listen a little bit better during election
11 time I think, you know?
12 But I spoke to one individual that
13 really made me think about that KOZ. He
14 told me, "I'm moving as soon as this KOZ
15 status is gone, I'm gone. I'm out of here."
16 He is disgusted with the
17 development, the whole nine yards, and that
18 bothered me and disappointed me, but I also
19 thought there is a home there. He is not
20 going to move without selling the home, so
21 when he sells the home we are going to get
22 transfer tax, right, and then whoever buys
23 it is going to pay taxes from the KOZ house,
24 so I believe there is good and there is bad
25 on both ends, so I'm really torn. I truly
1 many. I don't know when the final vote
2 comes down how I'm going to vote on this.
3 I asked for some information and I
4 got that and I'm assuming I got this
5 afternoon, Kay, because it wasn't here when
6 I was here this morning and to answer some
7 of the questions, I'm going to be honest
8 with you, I think it was a few months back
9 when Mr. Burke did come in here and speak to
10 us and I don't remember some of the things
11 we talked about. I don't remember some of
12 the answers to the questions, so I wanted to
13 bring myself up to speed on that and I do
14 have another question that I wanted to look
15 into tomorrow.
16 Potentially there's a company coming
17 that, you know, and I don't know the name of
18 the company anyway, but I'm believe they are
19 going to tell us and ask us to keep it
20 confidential for reasons they have, and the
21 one company makes me think because they are
22 supposed to bring 100 jobs and they are
23 supposed to be very good paying jobs and I
24 would like to see that happen here. I don't
25 have the information from the first time
1 this went around on what the jobs were and
2 what the pay was, and I do remember they
3 gave it to me, they weren't specific enough
4 for me, so I'm going to ask that, again, I
5 don't know which way I will vote if this
6 thing passes tonight. I'm voting in the
7 negative tonight, I was hoping that we would
8 have tabled it to look at it a little bit
9 more. I know we are under time constraints,
10 I believe by the end of the month they have
11 to have their application in, but I'm going
12 to vote "no" this evening, but with mixed
13 emotions, I'm just trying to be as honest as
14 possible, I have mixed emotions on it.
15 That's all I have.
16 MR. MCGOFF: Anyone else?
17 MS. GATELLI: Well, I'm just going to
18 say that I'm going to vote to introduce it
19 tonight, but that doesn't necessarily mean
20 I'm going to vote for it when it comes to
21 the final vote. I do believe in KOZ zones.
22 They have always had a tax incentive program
23 in the City of Scranton, years ago it was
24 called LERTA and they had a ten-year lease.
25 There were incentives all over the country
1 for businesses. Personally, I do not
2 believe in KOZ for residential areas. If
3 that came before me I would absolutely vote
4 "no". They are not for residential areas,
5 but I do think they are beneficial in
6 commercial and job creation areas.
7 I know when I look at the resolution
8 that was passed by the county they had no
9 problem at all. They don't even specify a
10 particular project as our ordinance does.
11 Our ordinance is only for Mount Pleasant as
12 far as I'm understanding. The county
13 approved it for any unoccupied, undeveloped
14 land in the whole county. I believe that
15 they studied it, and I worked many years you
16 know, with Mike Washo, and I don't think
17 that Mike would have voted for something
18 that would not be good for the county. I
19 will be talking to Mr. Washo concerning this
20 matter. I believe I did ask some time ago
21 for someone to call the school district and
22 see what their feelings were in regards to
23 this issue. If we have a deadline I'm sure
24 they have the same deadline and I don't see
25 it being discussed at the school district at
1 all, and they will be the biggest loser of
2 tax revenue for the property tax, so I don't
3 understand why I'm going to say again, that
4 it's always incumbent upon us to be the ones
5 who make all of these decisions when others
6 should be in the boat with us. I think we
7 should have all met together. There should
8 be intergovernmental relations, and there
9 aren't and there never is and that's a
10 really sad thing.
11 So I would ask that we possibly even
12 meet next week in caucus with one of the
13 commissioners and a school board solicitor
14 or president and we discuss the matter
15 together intelligently and see how we all
16 feel about it.
17 MR. MCGOFF: Can I interject just a
18 second, please?
19 MS. GATELLI: Yes.
20 MR. MCGOFF: I perhaps a month or so
21 ago I did meet with the county commissioners
22 to discuss this when it was originally
23 proposed to us by Mr. Burke and they were at
24 that time making an attempt to contact the
25 school board or a member -- someone from the
1 school district to do just what you
2 suggested, to sit down and discuss it as one
3 and to make a decision on what we might want
4 to do and nothing ever came of that. I
5 don't know what happened to the -- actually
6 they were trying to -- they made the phone
7 call when I was with them and I got no --
8 didn't get a response from the person that
9 they contacted.
10 Yesterday I spoke with one of the
11 commissioners as well regarding this matter,
12 and again, that was suggested and the
13 commissioners were going to attempt to
14 contact the school board and see if they
15 could arrange or at least get an indication
16 of what the school board was thinking on
17 this matter. Perhaps rather than a caucus,
18 I will attempt to contact the commissioners
19 tomorrow and see if they had any success in
20 contacting the school board. I would also
21 attempt to contact someone at the school
22 district and perhaps before next week and as
23 soon as possible sit down with those so that
24 we have a -- maybe can get a consensus on
25 what people think.
1 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mr. McGoff, I had
2 one more thing.
3 MR. MCGOFF: Sure. It's your time,
4 I'm sorry.
5 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm sorry. My
6 understanding is that if all three of us
7 don't go along with it then it fails. I
8 think that's correct, do you know for sure?
9 MS. GATELLI: And we did check that
10 and that's true. We all have to agree. So,
11 can't we all meet?
12 MR. COURTRIGHT: We need to met.
13 MS. GATELLI: We all met on the tax
14 office issue. All the bodies were at the
15 county commissioner's office. We were all
16 represented at that meeting, so I don't
17 understand why we can't have a meeting about
19 MR. COURTRIGHT: I think we have to.
20 MS. GATELLI: I think we do, too.
21 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't think there
22 is any way that we could -- our vote is not
23 going to matter one way or the other if we
24 don't meet and decide.
25 MS. FANUCCI: Exactly.
1 MR. COURTRIGHT: So I think we need
2 to and I would hope that, it appears it is
3 going to go through 3 to 1 tonight, I would
4 vote that we don't vote on it next week
5 unless we know the school district is going
6 to do next week.
7 MS. GATELLI: Well, I think we can
8 still table it next week.
9 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yeah. Absolutely.
10 MS. GATELLI: This is just
11 introduction, we can always table it again.
12 MS. FANUCCI: The problem is they are
13 under time constraints.
14 MS. GATELLI: Well, the time
15 constraints are up the street, too.
16 MS. FANUCCI: Right, but they only
17 have to pass it once.
18 MS. GATELLI: It's not just for us.
19 MS. FANUCCI: They could pass it
21 MS. GATELLI: We can suspend the
22 rules and read it. There is always an
23 answer. We can suspend the rules and do it
24 in one night.
25 MR. COURTRIGHT: The problem is on
1 these issues we need to get together
2 beforehand, not when it's in front of us.
3 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, but I did ask.
4 MR. COURTRIGHT: I know you tried.
5 Why that didn't happen --
6 MS. GATELLI: Well, I think it was
7 because it was election time. The election
8 is over so --
9 MR. MCGOFF: I will attempt to setup
10 some type of meeting with the other two
11 bodies. Okay. Anyone else?
12 MS. GATELLI: No, that's all I have.
13 MR. MCGOFF: All those in favor of
14 introduction signify by saying aye.
15 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
16 MS. GATELLI: Aye.
17 MR. MCGOFF: Aye. Opposed?
18 MR. COURTRIGHT: No.
19 MR. MCGOFF: The ayes have it and so
21 MS. GARVEY: Sixth order we have a
23 MR. MCGOFF: 6-A we need a motion
24 to amend 6-A. I just want to make sure I
25 make the proper motion.
1 MR. MINORA: It's a motion to amend
2 the title and the body of the resolution.
3 The ordinance to remove the words "general
5 MR. MCGOFF: Just for information
6 sake, the words "general funds" were
7 included in the legislation, they should not
8 have been. The motion is going to be simply
9 to remove the words "general fund," from the
10 legislation, so at this point in time I
11 would like to make a motion to amend Item
12 6-A by removing the words "general fund"
13 from the legislation.
14 MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.
15 MR. MCGOFF: On the question. All
16 those in favor signify by saying aye.
17 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
18 MS. GATELLI: Aye.
19 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
20 MR. MCGOFF: Aye. Opposed? The
21 ayes have it and so moved.
22 MS. GARVEY: 6-A. READING BY TITLE -
23 FILE OF COUNCIL NO. 68, 2009 - AN ORDINANCE
24 - AS AMENDED - TRANSFERRING THE FUNDS FROM
25 FUND 03 CITY LIQUID FUEL ACCOUNTS WHICH
1 FUNDS AND ACCOUNTS ARE NO LONGER NEEDED FOR
2 THE CONDUCT OF CITY BUSINESS, AND ABOLISHING
3 AND CLOSING SAID ACCOUNTS AND TRANSFERRING
4 THE FUNDS REMAINING IN THESE ACCOUNTS TO THE
5 CASH LIQUID FUELS INVEST ACCOUNT.
6 MR. MCGOFF: You have heard reading
7 by title of Item 6-A, what is your pleasure.
8 MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item 6-A
9 pass reading by title.
10 MS. FANUCCI: Second.
11 MR. MCGOFF: On the question? All
12 those in favor signify by saying aye.
13 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
14 MS. GATELLI: Aye.
15 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
16 MR. MCGOFF: Aye. Opposed? The
17 ayes have it and so moved.
18 MS. GARVEY: SEVENTH ORDER. 7-A. FOR
19 CONSIDERATION BY THE COMMITTEE ON COMMUNITY
20 DEVELOPMENT - FOR ADOPTION - FILE OF COUNCIL
21 NO. 67, 2009 - AMENDING FILE OF COUNCIL NO.
22 123, 2007, ENTITLED, "AN ORDINANCE
23 AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND OTHER APPROPRIATE
24 OFFICIALS OF THE CITY OF SCRANTON TO TAKE
25 ALL NECESSARY ACTIONS TO IMPLEMENT THE
1 CONSOLIDATED SUBMISSION FOR COMMUNITY
2 PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS (AS
3 AMENDED) TO BE FUNDED UNDER THE COMMUNITY
4 DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT (CDBG) PROGRAM, HOME
5 INVESTMENT PARTNERSHIP (HOME) PROGRAM AND
6 EMERGENCY SHELTER GRANT (ESG) PROGRAM", BY
7 AMENDING THE CONSOLIDATED PLAN AND THE 2008
8 ACTION PLAN TO INCLUDE NEW FUNDING UNDER
9 TITLE XII OF THE FEDERAL AMERICAN RECOVERY
10 AND REINVESTMENT ACT OF 2009 ("RECOVERY
11 ACT") FOR THE HOMELESS PREVENTION AND RAPID
12 RE-HOUSING PROGRAM (HPRP) AND THE COMMUNITY
13 DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT- RECOVERY (CDBG-R)
14 THAT RESULTED FROM THE RECOVERY ACT.
15 MR. MCGOFF: What is the
16 recommendation of the Chairperson for the
17 Committee on Community Development?
18 MS. FANUCCI: As Chairperson for the
19 Committee on Community Development, I
20 recommend final passage of Item 7-A.
21 MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.
22 MR. MCGOFF: On the question? Roll
23 call, please?
24 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans. Mrs.
1 MS. GATELLI. Yes.
2 MR. COOLICAN: Ms. Fanucci.
3 MS. FANUCCI: Yes.
4 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.
5 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yes.
6 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McGoff.
7 MR. MCGOFF: Yes. I hereby declare
8 Item 7-A legally and lawfully adopted.
9 MS. GARVEY: 7-B. FOR CONSIDERATION
10 BY THE COMMITTEE ON COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
11 FOR ADOPTION - RESOLUTION NO. 123, 2009 -
12 AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND OTHER APPROPRIATE
13 CITY OFFICIALS FOR THE CITY OF SCRANTON TO
14 ENTER INTO A LOAN AGREEMENT AND MAKE A LOAN
15 FROM THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ADMINISTRATION
16 LOAN PROGRAM, PROJECT NO. 009.500.4 IN AN
17 AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $25,000.00 TO D & MS,
18 LLC D/B/A CITY CAFÉ TO ASSIST AN ELIGIBLE
20 MR. MCGOFF: What is the
21 recommendation of the Chairperson for the
22 Committee on Community Development?
23 MS. FANUCCI: As Chairperson for the
24 Committee on Community Development, I
25 recommend final passage of Item 7-B.
1 MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.
2 MR. MCGOFF: On the question? Roll
3 call, please?
4 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans. Mrs.
6 MS. GATELLI. Yes.
7 MR. COOLICAN: Ms. Fanucci.
8 MS. FANUCCI: Yes.
9 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.
10 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yes.
11 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McGoff.
12 MR. MCGOFF: Yes. I hereby declare
13 Item 7-B legally and lawfully adopted.
14 MS. GATELLI: Make a motion to
16 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.
17 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you. Thank you
18 for your participation.
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
3 I hereby certify that the proceedings and
4 evidence are contained fully and accurately in the
5 notes of testimony taken by me at the hearing of the
6 above-captioned matter and that the foregoing is a true
7 and correct transcript of the same to the best of my
CATHENE S. NARDOZZI, RPR
12 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER