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            1              SCRANTON CITY COUNCIL MEETING

 

            2

 

            3

 

            4

 

            5                          HELD:

 

            6

 

            7                   Tuesday, June 2, 2009

 

            8

 

            9                        LOCATION:

 

           10                    Council Chambers

 

           11                 Scranton City Hall

 

           12              340 North Washington Avenue

 

           13                Scranton, Pennsylvania

 

           14

 

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           23

                    CATHENE S. NARDOZZI, RPR - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

           24

 

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            1

 

            2   CITY OF SCRANTON COUNCIL:

 

            3

 

            4

                MR. ROBERT MCGOFF, PRESIDENT

            5

 

            6   MS. JUDY GATELLI, VICE-PRESIDENT

 

            7

                MS. JANET E. EVANS

            8   (Not present.)

 

            9   MS. SHERRY FANUCCI

 

           10

                MR. WILLIAM COURTRIGHT

           11

 

           12   MS. KAY GARVEY, CITY CLERK

 

           13

                MR. NEIL COOLICAN, ASSISTANT CITY CLERK

           14

 

           15   MR. AMIL MINORA, SOLICITOR

 

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            1   (Pledge of Allegiance recited and moment of reflection

 

            2   observed.)

 

            3                      MR. MCGOFF: Roll call, please.  Mrs.

 

            4              Evans.

 

            5                      (Mrs. Evans not present.)

 

            6                      MR. COOLICAN:  Mrs. Gatelli.

 

            7                      (Mrs. Gatelli not present.)

 

            8                      MR. COOLICAN:  Ms. Fanucci.

 

            9                      MS. FANUCCI:  Here.

 

           10                      MR. COOLICAN:  Mr. Courtright.

 

           11                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Here.

 

           12                      MR. COOLICAN:  Mr. McGoff.

 

           13                      MR. MCGOFF:  Here.  Let the record

 

           14              show that Mrs. Evans called and said that

 

           15              she would not be at tonight's meeting, she

 

           16              had a medical appointment out of town and

 

           17              she did not think that she would be back in

 

           18              time.  Dispense with the reading of the

 

           19              minutes.  Announcements, Mr. Courtright?

 

           20                      MR. COURTRIGHT: I have two both

 

           21              regarding both police matters.  I'm just

 

           22              reading this for the first time myself.

 

           23              It's in response to a letter that was sent

 

           24              from Dave Elliott from the police department

 

           25              about the accusations, I'll say, that were


 

 

                                                                       4

 

 

            1              made here last week regarding the stolen

 

            2              signs and obstruction of justice and

 

            3              whatever else we want to call it.  Again,

 

            4              this is -- I have not read this at all, this

 

            5              is the first time I'm reading it so if it's

 

            6              not like what you like don't shoot the

 

            7              messenger.

 

            8                      "Dart council members, I received

 

            9              your letter dated May 29," -- again, this is

 

           10              from Dave Elliott from the police

 

           11              department, "I received your letter dated

 

           12              May 29, 2009, regarding the investigation of

 

           13              stolen/damaged political signs belonging to

 

           14              Gary DiBileo.  The incident occurred on

 

           15              March 23, 2009, at 319 Harrison Avenue

 

           16              approximately 11:00 according to the police

 

           17              report.  The owner of the property stated

 

           18              that there were surveillance tape that

 

           19              recorded the incident while it occurred.

 

           20              The police received the evidence and placed

 

           21              it into our evidence room.  The case was

 

           22              turned over to Detective Mike Schultz for

 

           23              further investigation.

 

           24                      During the investigation, Detective

 

           25              Schultz stated that he believed that the


 

 

                                                                       5

 

 

            1              person of interest may be involved -- may

 

            2              involve city hall employees.  He contacted

 

            3              the supervisor and asked that the

 

            4              investigation be turned over to another

 

            5              agency do to a possible conflict.  At this

 

            6              point, Sergeant Robert Martin, Schultz's

 

            7              immediate' supervisor, requested that I turn

 

            8              over the investigation due to a possible

 

            9              conflict of interest because of the persons

 

           10              of interest.

 

           11                      On April 15, 2009, I was sent a copy

 

           12              of the letter from Gary DiBileo also

 

           13              requesting to turn the case over to another

 

           14              agency due to a possible conflict.  Between

 

           15              April 15 and April 21 I contacted the

 

           16              Lackawanna County District Attorney's

 

           17              Office, the Pennsylvania State Police and

 

           18              the PA Attorney General's Office regarding

 

           19              the incident and asked that they would take

 

           20              over the investigation.  All three agencies

 

           21              stated that they would not take the case.

 

           22              Once they turned down the investigation it

 

           23              was returned to Captain Al Leonina,

 

           24              commander of the criminal investigation

 

           25              unit, to have the case assigned back to


 

 

                                                                       6

 

 

            1              Detective Schultz.

 

            2                      As of the date of your letter, I

 

            3              contacted Captain Leoncini to find out the

 

            4              status of the case and I was informed that

 

            5              the case is still active.  He stated that

 

            6              there are persons of interest, but has not

 

            7              called them suspects.  He also stated at

 

            8              this point in the investigation there is no

 

            9              probable cause for arrest.

 

           10                      If there is someone that has further

 

           11              investigation regarding this incident, I ask

 

           12              they contact the criminal investigation

 

           13              division directly.  As for any comments

 

           14              regarding the coverup, we have made every

 

           15              attempt to identify the parties involved

 

           16              going as far as putting the video on

 

           17              television and having the public forward

 

           18              information.  We have honored the request

 

           19              for other agency to look at the case, but we

 

           20              were denied.  Since this case is still

 

           21              active, the Detective division cannot

 

           22              release any further details regarding the

 

           23              case."

 

           24                      So, for those of who might have

 

           25              information Dave Elliott is asking that you


 

 

                                                                       7

 

 

            1              contact the criminal investigation division,

 

            2              and I guess that would be acting Captain Al

 

            3              Leoncini, so we thank him for the response.

 

            4              Again, that may or may not be what some

 

            5              people wanted to hear, but that's the answer

 

            6              we got.

 

            7                      Just one other thing, I think a

 

            8              matter of great importance to everybody in

 

            9              this city right now, I think we are all

 

           10              aware of the fact that there was an

 

           11              individual that was shot and killed by

 

           12              Scranton police officers.  I personally to

 

           13              not have any other information nor do I

 

           14              believe anybody on council has any other

 

           15              information other than what the general

 

           16              public has.  At times do I tend to have a

 

           17              little bit more information than the average

 

           18              council person, probably, but at this time I

 

           19              don't.  The state police stepped in, they

 

           20              were asked to step in by Scranton, which I

 

           21              think was the proper thing to do.

 

           22                      They stepped in, they are conducting

 

           23              the investigation and it's been extremely

 

           24              quiet, but I and I believe other council

 

           25              members have been contacted by phone, I have


 

 

                                                                       8

 

 

            1              been stopped on the street, and all kinds of

 

            2              questions and accusations have been told to

 

            3              me.  I personally don't think that, you

 

            4              know, there is a person that died here, and

 

            5              I don't think that we should be making any

 

            6              kind of accusations whatsoever or any

 

            7              assumptions or anything to that affect on

 

            8              either one side of the other until the

 

            9              investigation comes out and we find out what

 

           10              happened.  I have a lot of faith in the

 

           11              state police, I believe they will

 

           12              investigate it, and I believe they will do

 

           13              the right thing, but some things I was

 

           14              hearing, some ugly things on both sides.

 

           15              Ugly things about the police officers, and

 

           16              ugly things about the individual that passed

 

           17              away and I just don't think that's right.

 

           18                      I'm assuming that some people would

 

           19              be asking us tonight if we know, so I'm just

 

           20              trying to tell you up front I know no more

 

           21              than you do and I do not believe anybody up

 

           22              here knows anymore than you do, but I just

 

           23              don't -- I don't think we want to start

 

           24              shooting out accusations on either side of

 

           25              the fence.  I would recommend that we let


 

 

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            1              the state police do their job, let's see

 

            2              what they find out and hopefully justice

 

            3              will be served in one way or the other.

 

            4                      I just thought I would like to say

 

            5              that because of the large amount of people

 

            6              that have a lot of interest.  My

 

            7              understanding is they are talking about on

 

            8              the radio, on the Corbett show, I haven't

 

            9              heard any of that myself, I don't know what

 

           10              they have said or haven't said, but that is

 

           11              just my recommendation, we see where the

 

           12              investigation goes before we start accusing

 

           13              anyone on either side, on either side, and

 

           14              that's all I have.  Thank you.

 

           15                      (Mrs. Gatelli arrived while Mr.

 

           16              Courtright was speaking.)

 

           17                      MR. MCGOFF: I would just like to add

 

           18              that I think that any discussion of this

 

           19              matter at this time in council would be

 

           20              inappropriate, possibly because it would be

 

           21              injurious to the victim, to the Scranton

 

           22              Police Department, to the officers involved,

 

           23              and therefore, we have agreed as a council

 

           24              that we will not discuss it this evening and

 

           25              not until there is a report from the state


 

 

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            1              police and I would ask that any speakers

 

            2              please refrain from discussing this incident

 

            3              until there is adequate evidence to support

 

            4              whatever it is that may be said, so again, I

 

            5              would ask you to refrain from speaking about

 

            6              it at the podium this evening.

 

            7                      MR. COURTRIGHT: I think maybe

 

            8              because this has all touched us in one way

 

            9              or the other, I think maybe we forgot, I

 

           10              would recommend maybe at this time we have a

 

           11              moment of silence for the young woman that

 

           12              lost her life.

 

           13                      (Moment of silence observed.)

 

           14                      MR. MCGOFF: Thank you.  Other

 

           15              announcements.  Anyone?

 

           16                      MS. GATELLI:  I just have two quick

 

           17              announcements:  One is to please remember in

 

           18              your prayers my boss in the Scranton School

 

           19              District, Mr. Patty Schrenkgaust passed away

 

           20              on Saturday.  She suffered tremendously, so

 

           21              please remember her in your thoughts, and

 

           22              also another good friend of mine is ill,

 

           23              keep her in your prayers.  She is a

 

           24              neighborhood leader, Mr. Barbara Maranuchi,

 

           25              so please try to remember her in your


 

 

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            1              prayers, also.  That's all I have.  Thank

 

            2              you.

 

            3                      MR. MCGOFF: I was asked -- or we

 

            4              were asked to announce a free rabies clinic

 

            5              Saturday, June 13, from 1 to 3 p.m. at the

 

            6              VCA Dunmore Animal Hospital, that's at 1317

 

            7              Drinker Street, Dunmore, PA, sponsored by

 

            8              the Scranton Animal Care Association.

 

            9                      And also I believe everyone probably

 

           10              saw in the paper the Pennsylvania Treasurer

 

           11              McCord has for want of a better term a task

 

           12              force of some kind to seeking the owners of

 

           13              unclaimed property.  This is going to take

 

           14              place on Tuesday, June 2.  I guess we missed

 

           15              it.  Sorry.  I did not look at the dates.  I

 

           16              just received it today.

 

           17                      MS. GATELLI:  It's still in the

 

           18              paper.

 

           19                      MR. MCGOFF: And it is in the

 

           20              newspaper.  Sorry.  All of that for nothing,

 

           21              I'm sorry.  I'm not very timely I guess.

 

           22              Anything else?  Fourth order.

 

           23                      MS. GAWEL: Did you remember the

 

           24              dates for the American Cancer Society Relay?

 

           25                      MR. MCGOFF: No.


 

 

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            1                      MS. GAWEL:  I think it's next

 

            2              Saturday, the 13, but I'm not sure.

 

            3                      MR. MCGOFF:  I'm sorry, third order.

 

            4                      MS. GARVEY: 3-A. MINUTES OF THE

 

            5              NON-UNIFORM MUNICIPAL PENSION MEETING HELD

 

            6              ON APRIL 22, 2009.

 

            7                      MR. MCGOFF: Are there any comments?

 

            8              If not, received and filed.

 

            9                      MS. GARVEY: 3-B. AGENDA FOR THE

 

           10              NON-UNIFORM MUNICIPAL PENSION MEETING HELD

 

           11              ON MAY 27, 2009.

 

           12                      MR. MCGOFF: Are there any comments?

 

           13              If not, received and filed.

 

           14                      MS. GARVEY: 3-C. MINUTES OF THE

 

           15              SCRANTON POLICE PENSION COMMISSION MEETING

 

           16              HELD ON APRIL 22, 2009.

 

           17                       MR. MCGOFF: Are there any comments?

 

           18              If not, received and filed.

 

           19                      MS. GARVEY: 3-D. MINUTES OF THE

 

           20              SCRANTON FIREMEN'S PENSION COMMISSION

 

           21              MEETING HELD ON APRIL 22, 2009.

 

           22                      MR. MCGOFF: Are there any comments?

 

           23              If not, received and filed.

 

           24                      MS. GARVEY: That's it for third

 

           25              order.


 

 

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            1                      MR. MCGOFF:  Thank you, Mrs. Garvey,

 

            2              and please for the record show that Mrs.

 

            3              Gatelli is present.  You were not at roll

 

            4              call before.  Citizens' participation.  Les

 

            5              Spindler.

 

            6                      MR. SPINDLER: Finally.  I'm in a

 

            7              hurry to get out of here tonight and we are

 

            8              late.  I have a neighborhood association/

 

            9              crime watch meeting in like five minutes.

 

           10                      First of all, Mrs. Gatelli, I would

 

           11              like to comment on how you accepted your

 

           12              loss last week, you were very gracious in

 

           13              defeat congratulating all the victors.  I

 

           14              thought that was very good of you unlike

 

           15              your counterpart who was very mean and

 

           16              viscous and thank God in January we won't

 

           17              have to put up with that any more.

 

           18                      MR. MCGOFF: Please, Mr. Spindler,

 

           19              the election is over.

 

           20                      MR. SPINDLER: I understand.

 

           21                      MR. MCGOFF: Could we please move on.

 

           22                      MR. SPINDLER: I didn't want to come

 

           23              here tonight until I read two things in the

 

           24              paper.  First of all, a KOZ for the office

 

           25              park down on Linden Street, we don't need


 

 

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            1              anymore KOZ's in this area.  Austin Burke

 

            2              said it's got to be a KOZ or they are not

 

            3              going to come here.  That's not true.  I

 

            4              hear something about a done deal, the people

 

            5              are coming here, we don't need more KOZ's,

 

            6              the people don't need anymore burdens in

 

            7              this city, we need all of the money coming

 

            8              in here that we can get and, Mrs. Gatelli,

 

            9              I'm going to talk at you, maybe you can side

 

           10              with the people this time because I know the

 

           11              stamper over here is just going to stamp

 

           12              away as she said last week, so please stick

 

           13              up for the people and don't okay this KOZ.

 

           14                      MS. GATELLI: Mr. Spindler, just for

 

           15              the record, I don't believe anybody up here

 

           16              ever voted for a KOZ.  We weren't here.

 

           17              When they did.

 

           18                      MR. SPINDLER:  Okay, well, I'm

 

           19              asking that this council doesn't because we

 

           20              don't need anymore in this city.

 

           21                      Second of all, the I'm not sure of

 

           22              all of the details about the mayor giving

 

           23              away or leasing or selling the Wildlife

 

           24              Center to Lackawanna College and Doug Miller

 

           25              came here awhile back and said Chris Doherty


 

 

                                                                      15

 

 

            1              has got a plan.  And, Mrs. Fanucci, you said

 

            2              what's the plan?

 

            3                      MS. FANUCCI: He said restaurant.

 

            4                      MR. SPINDLER: That was the plan.

 

            5              No, he said they have a plan.

 

            6                      MS. FANUCCI: No, he said restaurant.

 

            7              Let's get it right.  He said restaurant.

 

            8                      MR. SPINDLER:  He said they have a

 

            9              plan.

 

           10                      MS. FANUCCI: He said it was a

 

           11              restaurant.

 

           12                      MR. SPINDLER: Mr. McGoff, would you

 

           13              get her out of order?  I'm trying to talk

 

           14              here.  I have five minutes.  Use your gavel

 

           15              on her and not just on the people.

 

           16                      MS. FANUCCI: Sorry, Les.

 

           17                      MR. SPINDLER: Thank God in January

 

           18              we won't have you at the gavel either.

 

           19                      MS. FANUCCI: It's going to be a long

 

           20              time before then though.

 

           21                      MR. MCGOFF: Please, let him finish.

 

           22                      MR. SPINDLER: Anyway, I have the

 

           23              deed for Nay Aug.  I don't think Lackawanna

 

           24              College can move in.  It's a free and public

 

           25              park of.  The mayor can't give public space


 

 

                                                                      16

 

 

            1              away, so I think you should have your

 

            2              solicitor look at the deed.  I don't think

 

            3              they can use that for that.

 

            4                      MS. FANUCCI: They can.

 

            5                      MR. SPINDLER: And these plans were

 

            6              in the works probably months and months and

 

            7              ago because they showed the plans on the

 

            8              news tonight, so Mayor Doherty had a plan.

 

            9              He threw Mrs. Miller out for a reason.  He

 

           10              is just a rotten person, that's all I have

 

           11              to say.

 

           12                      MR. MCGOFF: That's unnecessary.

 

           13                      MR. SPINDLER: And, Mr. Courtright, I

 

           14              think -- I think you know what I'm going to

 

           15              talk about, I think we should dispel the

 

           16              rumors, there is a rumor going around you

 

           17              are going to leave her sometime the first.

 

           18              I know what you are going to say, is that

 

           19              true or not?

 

           20                      MR. COURTRIGHT: Les, at this time I

 

           21              have no plans on leaving.

 

           22                      MR. SPINDLER:  I understand that,

 

           23              but there are rumors out there.  I don't

 

           24              know where people come up with them.

 

           25                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  You will have that.


 

 

                                                                      17

 

 

            1                      MR. SPINDLER: And about the chief's

 

            2              letter, I don't think that's true because I

 

            3              got my information straight from Attorney

 

            4              Chris Cullen who told Steven Corbett live on

 

            5              the air that the police investigation is

 

            6              done and the report was with the chief, Ray

 

            7              Hayes and the mayor, Steve Corbett has a

 

            8              copy of the report, so does WNEP, so I don't

 

            9              think the chief is telling the truth.

 

           10                      MS. FANUCCI: Les, do you think you

 

           11              can get that for us?

 

           12                      MR. SPINDLER: I think you can.  You

 

           13              people -- you are the elected officials.

 

           14                      MS. FANUCCI: I'm just saying we are

 

           15              not aware of any report, but if you are

 

           16              saying --

 

           17                      MR. SPINDLER: I'm not -- well, talk

 

           18              to -- maybe we should get Chris Cullen in

 

           19              here because he is the one that said it to

 

           20              Steve Corbett and I'm not the only one that

 

           21              heard it live on the radio.

 

           22                      MS. FANUCCI: Yeah, he is usually

 

           23              pretty truthful.

 

           24                      MR. SPINDLER: Steve Corbett is a lot

 

           25              smarter than you are, Mrs. Fanucci.


 

 

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            1                      MR. MCGOFF: Please.

 

            2                      MS. FANUCCI: She is making comments,

 

            3              too.

 

            4                      MR. MCGOFF: I'm asking you both to

 

            5              --

 

            6                      MR. SPINDLER: You are so one-sided

 

            7              it's unbelievable.

 

            8                      MR. MCGOFF: If you have something to

 

            9              say, please.

 

           10                      MS. FANUCCI: I was talking to him-

 

           11                      MS. GATELLI: Les, maybe we'll just

 

           12              have Attorney Minora call Attorney Cullen.

 

           13                      MR. SPINDLER: Okay.

 

           14                      MS. GATELLI: Okay?

 

           15                      MR. SPINDLER: I would appreciate

 

           16              that.

 

           17                      MS. GATELLI: And see if there was --

 

           18                      MR. SPINDLER:  Because I spoke with

 

           19              Attorney Cullen myself.

 

           20                      MR. GATELLI: Will you do that, Mr.

 

           21              Minora?

 

           22                      MR. SPINDLER: Lastly, there is a

 

           23              comment section on the Scranton -- on the

 

           24              Doherty newsletter, I should say on-line

 

           25              section, and there is a coward on there that


 

 

                                                                      19

 

 

            1              won't put his name that criticizes all the

 

            2              speakers that come in here, and last week

 

            3              when I talked about the signs he called me a

 

            4              sore loser.  Well, first of all, I didn't

 

            5              run for anything, I didn't lose anything.  I

 

            6              don't know what he is talking about being a

 

            7              sore loser.

 

            8                      Second of all, the signs were

 

            9              stolen, and that's a crime, these signs were

 

           10              40, 50 bucks a shot, they were 70 signs

 

           11              stolen, so to me that's a major crime, and

 

           12              as far as me being a sore loser, like I

 

           13              said, I didn't lose anything because I

 

           14              didn't run for any office.  Thank you.

 

           15                      MR. MCGOFF: Andy Sbaraglia.

 

           16                      MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia,

 

           17              citizen of Scranton.  Fellow Scrantonians,

 

           18              it's pretty hard to come after Les, but

 

           19              let's get on something down here.  We have

 

           20              this -- these are people who have asked for

 

           21              loans, which you are going to be voting on,

 

           22              Gleason Custom Kitchens.  I believe that

 

           23              company has been in business for quite

 

           24              awhile, and I assume you checked with the

 

           25              Better Business Bureau to see if there was


 

 

                                                                      20

 

 

            1              any complaints against this individual or

 

            2              individuals before you could vote on it.

 

            3              That would be the first thing to check on.

 

            4                      Okay, and let's get onto this other

 

            5              one, Backyard Ale House, and up there at

 

            6              Gleason Custom Kitchens they say two people,

 

            7              but like I said, I think they have been in

 

            8              business for quite awhile so they must have

 

            9              a staff already.

 

           10                      Okay, let's go over to the Backyard

 

           11              Ale House, they want to borrow $25,000.  By

 

           12              the way, these two loans are at 5 percent,

 

           13              so just in case I don't mention it, and one

 

           14              job.  So that takes care of the other two

 

           15              loans.  Now, we get to 5-F.  They want

 

           16              85,000, but this percentage they want to

 

           17              borrow like 1 percent.  Remember, these

 

           18              other two people got charge five, this

 

           19              person got charged one.  It struck out like

 

           20              a sore thumb, and as far as I know I think

 

           21              they are in the 201 Lackawanna Avenue, I

 

           22              think that's the enterprise zone, so they

 

           23              ain't even paying taxes.  So they are going

 

           24              to get a five-year free ride and a low

 

           25              interest loan, but I guess that's the way


 

 

                                                                      21

 

 

            1              the city works.  I guess our -- well,

 

            2              somebody got in there anyway to tell them to

 

            3              give them a 1 percent loan, I don't exactly

 

            4              know why, but if I was paying 5 percent I

 

            5              would certainly pay to the mayor.

 

            6                      MS. FANUCCI:  Their job creation is

 

            7              going to be 20 jobs within three years.

 

            8                      MR. SBARAGLIA: They are in a KOZ.

 

            9              There is no way -- it's not a KOZ, but they

 

           10              don't pay any taxes, they can give 100 jobs.

 

           11              If the people don't live in Scranton that's

 

           12              52 bucks, remember that.  That's all, and

 

           13              people don't really shop a lot in Scranton

 

           14              or the mall wouldn't be in a lot of trouble.

 

           15              Just remember that, too.

 

           16                      MS. FANUCCI: Okay.

 

           17                      MR. SBARAGLIA: Okay, let's go down

 

           18              to the KOZ's.  Now, this is Galdieri you are

 

           19              talking about.  They want to make that a KOZ

 

           20              now, and if you remember they paid 2 million

 

           21              totally -- this is Galdieri for him to move

 

           22              out, this is a Slipco; right.

 

           23                      MS. FANUCCI: Right.

 

           24                      MR. SBARAGLIA: Okay, they pay 2

 

           25              million for his property to move him out.


 

 

                                                                      22

 

 

            1              That was not what they call green space or

 

            2              whatever the name they use for a derelict

 

            3              property.  The other properties that they

 

            4              are referring to were also KOZ'd, for ten

 

            5              years they haven't been paying taxes on

 

            6              them.  Now, they want you to give them

 

            7              another ten years, so that's going to be

 

            8              20 years of a free ride.  Now, where did you

 

            9              come off?

 

           10                      We had an increase of 25 percent.

 

           11              The annex tax went up to 52 percent and yet

 

           12              you are giving free rides to corporation

 

           13              after corporation, after corporation which

 

           14              is nothing but a tax dodge.  If they were

 

           15              coming from New York, outside of Maryland,

 

           16              this is people coming in from out-of-state.

 

           17                      MS. FANUCCI: Some of them are, yes.

 

           18                      MR. SBARAGLIA:  No, it's not until

 

           19              they got the building going.

 

           20                      MS. FANUCCI: That's not true, some

 

           21              of the companies are coming in from

 

           22              out-of-state.

 

           23                      MR. SBARAGLIA: Do have you the

 

           24              names?  No. You don't have the names because

 

           25              they won't give it to you.


 

 

                                                                      23

 

 

            1                      MS. FANUCCI: Okay.

 

            2                      MR. SBARAGLIA:  You know what I mean

 

            3              because they won't give it to you.

 

            4                      MS. FANUCCI: Let me ask you a

 

            5              question, seriously and I'm asking you

 

            6              seriously.

 

            7                      MR. SBARAGLIA: Go ahead.

 

            8                      MS. FANUCCI: If all of the other

 

            9              people around us, all of the other places,

 

           10              Jessup, Jermyn and everybody else, did

 

           11              approve this KOZ and now we are in the midst

 

           12              of saying no, and saying no, we are not

 

           13              going to approve it, you don't think that

 

           14              these companies are just going to locate up

 

           15              there?

 

           16                      MR. SBARAGLIA: I got news for you,

 

           17              they go where they want.

 

           18                      MS. FANUCCI: Right.

 

           19                      MR. SBARAGALIA: The thing is they

 

           20              are damaging the state.  We are $3 billion

 

           21              in debt.  Any person that moves from a

 

           22              different area of the state into Scranton,

 

           23              and that's in Pennsylvania, is damaging the

 

           24              state economy and there is no way to look at

 

           25              it.  It's true.


 

 

                                                                      24

 

 

            1                      MS. FANUCCI: Regardless --

 

            2              regardless, it's an open -- it's an open

 

            3              deal.  That's out there.  This program is

 

            4              out there.  So, I mean, we can't stop that

 

            5              program in the city.  What I'm asking you is

 

            6              if there is a chance to have 1,000 jobs in

 

            7              the city or a chance for a 1,000 --

 

            8                      MR. SBARAGLIA: I got five minutes to

 

            9              talk.

 

           10                      MS. FANUCCI: I'm asking you a

 

           11              question.

 

           12                      MR. SBARAGLIA: Stop my time.

 

           13                      MS. FANUCCI: I'm trying to have a

 

           14              conversation, yeah.

 

           15                      MR. SBARAGALIA: I hope he is

 

           16              stopping the time.

 

           17                      MS. FANUCCI: I'm asking you a

 

           18              serious question, you don't think that

 

           19              that's a tough sell to say, you know what, I

 

           20              can move four blocks away or three miles

 

           21              away to get a KOZ and within the city I

 

           22              can't?

 

           23                      MR. SBARAGLIA: Why do you think I

 

           24              talked about the KOZ?  You weren't there.

 

           25              When this came --


 

 

                                                                      25

 

 

            1                      MS. FANUCCI: But --

 

            2                      MR. SBARAGLIA: No.  No.  Hold on.

 

            3                      MS. FANUCCI: No, give him the two

 

            4              minutes.

 

            5                      MR. SBARAGLIA: She took two minutes

 

            6              out of my time.

 

            7                      MS. FANUCCI: No, he doesn't want an

 

            8              exchange, he just wants his time to talk, so

 

            9              go ahead.

 

           10                      MR. MCGOFF: Please finish.

 

           11                      MR. SBARAGALIA: You weren't there

 

           12              for the KOZ, I was.  I fought the KOZ when

 

           13              it came out.  The reason I came out because

 

           14              there is nothing more than a tax dodge.

 

           15              Look at what was done with the KOZ's.  They

 

           16              fixed up buildings that they own, okay?

 

           17              That's what they did.  They bought a

 

           18              building, they fixed them up.  I, as a

 

           19              property owner, I didn't ask you to give me

 

           20              a KOZ to fix up my house, maybe I should.

 

           21              You are better off taking a KOZ, take all of

 

           22              these delinquent housing lots that are

 

           23              around the city that they are ripping down

 

           24              the homes, make them KOZ's and give them to

 

           25              the people next door that lives next to him,


 

 

                                                                      26

 

 

            1              at least they will take care of their

 

            2              properties.

 

            3                      You're pipe dreams.  You ain't going

 

            4              to be here in ten years probably, maybe I

 

            5              won't either, but I can tell you one thing

 

            6              no one should ever get 20 years of tax free

 

            7              status, I don't care what they are.  All you

 

            8              are doing is creating a surplus where the

 

            9              peasants in the city has to pay the taxes to

 

           10              the business people with little or no.  Look

 

           11              at the land?  Did you ever look at how many

 

           12              lands are not developed that was KOZ'd?  The

 

           13              KOZ was fought.  It was fought when it was

 

           14              written, and it's fought today and it will

 

           15              continue to be fought.  Okay, I think I used

 

           16              my time.

 

           17                      MR. MCGOFF: Ozzie Quinn.

 

           18                      MR. QUINN:  Ozzie Quinn, president

 

           19              of the Scranton/Lackawanna County Taxpayers'

 

           20              Association.  I want to continue where Andy

 

           21              left off, KOZ, KOEZ, we have actually 207

 

           22              parcels of land in the City of Scranton

 

           23              under this KOZ, KOEZ.  Now, we have a debt

 

           24              of 170 million.  If you extrapolate that

 

           25              into the future with the interest it's


 

 

                                                                      27

 

 

            1              $273 million.  25 percent of our properties

 

            2              are nontaxable, nonprofits.  You got a whole

 

            3              in the budget right now, in the 2009 budget,

 

            4              that we have to fill of $2.5 million.  I

 

            5              don't know where this money is coming from.

 

            6              We are talking about new jobs coming in, a

 

            7              thousand new jobs, and I never seen such a

 

            8              blatant lie as Mayor Doherty said about the

 

            9              6,000 jobs because I have right here a

 

           10              document, HUD document.  It's a HUD document

 

           11              and it shows from 2001 to the present into

 

           12              2007, it didn't accrue last year, how many

 

           13              jobs were created or retained?  178.  It's a

 

           14              little far distance from 6,000.  Stretch it

 

           15              out there.  My God, talk about who is taken

 

           16              a cooly.  Wow.

 

           17                      MS. FANUCCI: I believe --

 

           18                      MR. QUINN: Uh --

 

           19                      MS. FANUCCI: I know, Ozzie, but I do

 

           20              believe that that's just for the job

 

           21              creation for our loans.

 

           22                      MR. QUINN: Pardon me?

 

           23                      MS. FANUCCI: I believe that's just

 

           24              for the job creation for the loans we gave

 

           25              out.  That's HUD, that's not saying 6,000


 

 

                                                                      28

 

 

            1              jobs.

 

            2                      MR. QUINN: What did he do, build his

 

            3              own place.

 

            4                      MS. FANUCCI: There is probably

 

            5              nothing else that came here since '95.

 

            6                      MR. QUINN: What does that mean, Mrs.

 

            7              Fanucci?  Amil, excuse me, I'm sorry, Mr.

 

            8              McGoff, what would that be.

 

            9                      MS. FANUCCI: Well, I know the

 

           10              Enterprise Center right now there is jobs --

 

           11              there is a company there with 30, 40 jobs

 

           12              since last year.

 

           13                      MR. QUINN: Now, well, well, well --

 

           14                      MS. FANUCCI: I mean, there is places

 

           15              all over the city, I can't give you that

 

           16              number, but I'm saying that that information

 

           17              probably isn't accurate right now.  You are

 

           18              claiming that that's -- that's a HUD action

 

           19              document not just a job creation out of the

 

           20              whole city.

 

           21                      MR. QUINN:  This is what OECD filed

 

           22              with HUD.

 

           23                      MS. FANUCCI:  Right, but that's not

 

           24              saying that there was all these other jobs

 

           25              created in the city.


 

 

                                                                      29

 

 

            1                      MR. MCGOFF: Please, let Mr. Quinn,

 

            2              finish.

 

            3                      MR. QUINN:  You know, a person

 

            4              called me and said about the South Side

 

            5              library, you know?  They said the fact, and

 

            6              I agree with them because I have gone up to

 

            7              the library, the Albright library in the

 

            8              afternoon, and it is packed with computers.

 

            9              Now, people go to the libraries nowadays

 

           10              either to do research or to pick up a book

 

           11              to read, of course.  Now, this gentleman

 

           12              recommended or suggested that I recommended

 

           13              or suggested that the city, a good friend of

 

           14              the mayor, use some of that community

 

           15              development block grant money and put it

 

           16              into the mall crossing the transit where

 

           17              Boscov used to have his furniture, it's

 

           18              vacant in there and where the T-shirt place

 

           19              was, put maybe 100 computers in there, and

 

           20              you don't need any new library, and I agree

 

           21              with this man.

 

           22                      I spoke with Bob Neverosky today and

 

           23              he is a little disturbed, he is president of

 

           24              the Hill Neighborhood Association, I'm an

 

           25              officer in the blight, and he never got a


 

 

                                                                      30

 

 

            1              letter that there was a meeting, a

 

            2              combination meeting between Pinebrook and

 

            3              the HNA, okay?  And why wouldn't there be a

 

            4              meeting in the Hill Section?  Now, the

 

            5              meeting is going to held, it's being held

 

            6              right now at 829 Capouse Avenue.  I don't

 

            7              know what, is that a store or something?

 

            8                      MS. GATELLI: What, Ozzie?

 

            9                      MR. QUINN:  829 Capouse Avenue?

 

           10                      MS. GATELLI: That's the Pinebrook

 

           11              neighborhood office.

 

           12                      MR. QUINN: It's a store?

 

           13                      MS. GATELLI: Yes, it's in there.  I

 

           14              think it's Jerry Rinaldi's store.

 

           15                      MR. QUINN:  How can the people from

 

           16              the Hill Section, you know, go down and go,

 

           17              it's just going through the motions.  If

 

           18              they had a meeting up at the IHM Church or

 

           19              the Covenant Church for the people to

 

           20              discuss the consolidated plan that would be

 

           21              great, but it's obviously, again, it's just

 

           22              skipping over the Hill Neighborhood

 

           23              Association.

 

           24                      I feel bad about everything that's

 

           25              going on here, and I do want to say the fact


 

 

                                                                      31

 

 

            1              that I do have to mention not only are we

 

            2              talking about the debt in the city with

 

            3              regards to the $273 million, we also have to

 

            4              bring in the school district is 120 -- I'll

 

            5              finish up here, please?  Okay?  And the

 

            6              county debt is $224 million, add that up.

 

            7              It comes over to half a million dollars,

 

            8              doesn't it?  Who is going to pay for it?

 

            9                      MR. MCGOFF: Thank you.

 

           10                      MS. GATELLI: Ozzie, I just have

 

           11              question, did you go to the school board

 

           12              meeting last night?

 

           13                      MR. QUINN:  No, because it was a --

 

           14                      MS. GATELLI: Oh, a work session.

 

           15                      MR. QUINN: I make sure that I go to

 

           16              all school board meetings, but --

 

           17                      MS. GATELLI:  No, I just wondered if

 

           18              they did anything on the KOZ or not?

 

           19                      MR. QUINN:  No.  I assumed they are

 

           20              going to go on vacation so they will

 

           21              probably have it at Monday's meeting.

 

           22                      MS. GATELLI: Monday there's a

 

           23              meeting.

 

           24                      MR. QUINN:  Yeah.

 

           25                      MS. GATELLI: Okay.


 

 

                                                                      32

 

 

            1                      MR. MCGOFF: Sam Patilla.

 

            2                      MR. PATILLA: Sam Patilla, Scranton

 

            3              resident, member of the Scranton Taxpayers'

 

            4              Association.  Good evening, Mr. Courtright.

 

            5              My condolences to the Williams' family.

 

            6              Three years now I have been coming to the

 

            7              city council along with other speakers

 

            8              begging and pleading with this

 

            9              administration to settle the contracts with

 

           10              the fire and police unions.

 

           11                      Now, I have had quite a few

 

           12              individuals approach me requesting that make

 

           13              a phone call, get Al Sharpton to come here

 

           14              and I tell them, no.  Al Sharpton never

 

           15              voted for Chris Doherty.  Al Sharpton isn't

 

           16              responsible for people like Stu Renda

 

           17              getting $80,000, okay?

 

           18                       I don't want the members of the

 

           19              community to look down upon the Scranton

 

           20              Police Department because there is some

 

           21              great men and women on that force.  I do

 

           22              want them to remember that they're partially

 

           23              to blame because they are the ones that

 

           24              voted for Chris Doherty, okay.  Had you

 

           25              elected somebody who actually cared about


 

 

                                                                      33

 

 

            1              the citizens, who actually cared about the

 

            2              small business owners, who actually cared

 

            3              about the education of our children, the

 

            4              qualified and experienced police officers

 

            5              wouldn't have migrated out of this city to

 

            6              other areas.  The situation of Sister

 

            7              Williams might have been diffused before it

 

            8              got to that point.

 

            9                      And I want you all to understand and

 

           10              realize that we have an election coming up.

 

           11              We need people who are for the people.  We

 

           12              don't need people who are for themselves.

 

           13              We don't need people who have for corporate

 

           14              America.  We need people to represent the

 

           15              citizens and the business owners of the City

 

           16              of Scranton.  You want to blame somebody,

 

           17              you blame Chris Doherty.  You blame the

 

           18              chief of police, you blame Ray Hayes because

 

           19              had they spent that time and energy to

 

           20              ensure that the police were trained and had

 

           21              the equipment that they needed to protect

 

           22              not only the citizens of Scranton but

 

           23              themselves, we wouldn't be confronted with

 

           24              these type of situations, all right?

 

           25                      It's a heated situation.  Now, I


 

 

                                                                      34

 

 

            1              don't want to turn racial, I don't want

 

            2              people turning against the police force.  I

 

            3              want people to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

            4              It's time to elect people who are here for

 

            5              you not people who want to get in office

 

            6              because they think that it will help them

 

            7              leap frog to other office.  We don't need

 

            8              political hacks.  We need concerned

 

            9              individuals who are concerned about us as a

 

           10              whole, all right?

 

           11                      I listened to the radio the night of

 

           12              the election 7 percent of the precinct had

 

           13              reported, 7 percent.  This man had already

 

           14              giving an acceptance speech.  93 percent of

 

           15              the precinct hadn't even reported and he is

 

           16              already giving an acceptance speech, all

 

           17              right?  So keep in mind when this election

 

           18              comes around here don't be voting for people

 

           19              because you like them, vote for people that

 

           20              are going to do the job that that position

 

           21              entails, okay?

 

           22                      And before I go, Mr. Courtright,

 

           23              what business is Focal, Inc., are they a

 

           24              manufacturing business, a retail business?

 

           25                      MR. COURTRIGHT: Which one?


 

 

                                                                      35

 

 

            1                      MR. PATILLA: Focal.  The one you are

 

            2              going to give 85 grand to.

 

            3                      MR. MCGOFF: It's software.

 

            4                      MR. COURTRIGHT: I believe it's for,

 

            5              as he said, it's for software, computers.

 

            6                      MR. PATILLA: All right.  They don't

 

            7              have government contracts, do they?

 

            8                      MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm not aware if

 

            9              they do or not, I don't know.

 

           10                      MR. PATILLA: Okay, because just like

 

           11              Andy said, you know, you give these

 

           12              businesses KOZ's, then you come down here

 

           13              and you give them 1 percent, all right?

 

           14              Now, when our property taxes come around,

 

           15              well, I'm going to get mine because my

 

           16              property value is worth 20 percent less than

 

           17              it was when we bought that house, so I'm

 

           18              going to get my discount because you are not

 

           19              going to bill me on what I paid for that

 

           20              house.  You are going to bill me for the

 

           21              market value is, but you come, you bring

 

           22              this companies in here, you give them

 

           23              freebies, you give them handouts, you give

 

           24              them the resources that the citizens of

 

           25              Scranton have broken their backs to create,


 

 

                                                                      36

 

 

            1              to produce and you basically spit in their

 

            2              face when it comes time to looking out for

 

            3              their well-being.  Get off the dump and

 

            4              start taking care of the citizens.  To hell

 

            5              with these businesses.

 

            6                      MR. MCGOFF: Jean Suetta.

 

            7                      MS. SUETTA: How you are doing

 

            8              everybody?  Jean Suetta.  Hi, Billy.  Hi,

 

            9              Bob.

 

           10                      MR. MCGOFF: Good evening.

 

           11                      MS. SUETTA: It would nice if you

 

           12              could look at me instead of sitting there

 

           13              like that.

 

           14                      MR. MCGOFF: I was just --

 

           15                      MS. SUETTA: Judy.  Sherry.  Did

 

           16              Jerry Langan call?

 

           17                      MR. MCGOFF: Concerning North

 

           18              Scranton?

 

           19                      MS. FANUCCI: We talked about that

 

           20              last week, didn't we?

 

           21                      MR. MCGOFF: We did get a letter from

 

           22              him in the -- I think a number of letters

 

           23              actually.

 

           24                      MS. SUETTA: Because now the word is

 

           25              out that they don't want that Memorial on


 

 

                                                                      37

 

 

            1              their grounds anymore, and they want the

 

            2              people to move it.  Do they know the expense

 

            3              of moving that memorial?  If he doesn't want

 

            4              it there let him smucking pay for it.

 

            5                      MR. MCGOFF: We had not heard that.

 

            6                      MS. SUETTA:  Don't laugh, Bill.  I

 

            7              didn't curse.  I can say muck.  Ask Barbara

 

            8              Walters, she said it on TV.  He wants that

 

            9              memorial out of there.  Do you know where --

 

           10                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  He didn't tell us

 

           11              that, Jean.

 

           12                      MS. SUETTA: Well, could you send the

 

           13              letter out to the person?

 

           14                      MS. FANUCCI: Yeah.

 

           15                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  To who?

 

           16                      MS. SUETTA: Jerry Langan.

 

           17                      MS. FANUCCI: Yes, we can do that.

 

           18                      MR. MCGOFF: I will personally call

 

           19              him and ask him what he intends to do with

 

           20              that memorial.

 

           21                      MS. SUETTA: All right.

 

           22                      MR. MCGOFF: Okay?

 

           23                      MS. SUETTA:  Give me your word?

 

           24                      MR. MCGOFF: I just did.

 

           25                      MS. SUETTA:  Now, I come down here,


 

 

                                                                      38

 

 

            1              I was all riled since the shooting, you

 

            2              know, because I can't see no way, shape or

 

            3              form that that woman should have been shot.

 

            4                      MR. MCGOFF: Jean --

 

            5                      MS. SUETTA: I'm sorry.

 

            6                      MR. MCGOFF:  No, I asked that we

 

            7              please refrain from that.

 

            8                      MS. SUETTA: I'm sorry.

 

            9                      MR. MCGOFF: It's all speculation at

 

           10              this point, please.

 

           11                      MS. SUETTA: Oh, there is no

 

           12              speculation there, Bob.

 

           13                      MR. MCGOFF: Yes.

 

           14                      MS. SUETTA: The bullets went in her.

 

           15                      MR. MCGOFF: Please.

 

           16                      MS. SUETTA: I don't know what

 

           17              speculation is.  How much money did you win,

 

           18              Sherry?

 

           19                      MS. FANUCCI: None.

 

           20                      MS. SUETTA: No?  We went Sunday and

 

           21              went down.

 

           22                      MS. FANUCCI: Did you win?

 

           23                      MS. SUETTA: 5,000.

 

           24                      MS. FANUCCI:  No way?

 

           25                      MS. SUETTA: Yeah.


 

 

                                                                      39

 

 

            1                      MS. FANUCCI: I'm going to start

 

            2              hanging out with you.

 

            3                      MS. SUETTA: You ain't got the money

 

            4              to hang out with me.

 

            5                      MS. FANUCCI: I totally agree.

 

            6                      MS. SUETTA: But you don't do the

 

            7              profession I do either.  Don't laugh.  You

 

            8              are one of my customers.

 

            9                      MR. MINORA:  I won't tell you.

 

           10                      MS. SUETTA: What are you looking

 

           11              for?  Don't laugh.  Have a good night.

 

           12                      MR. MCGOFF:  Thank you, Jean.

 

           13                      MS. SUETTA: I hope the investigation

 

           14              is good though.  Yeah.  See how I break you

 

           15              people up?

 

           16                      MR. MCGOFF:  It's certainly

 

           17              interesting.  Lee Morgan.

 

           18                      MR. MORGAN: Good evening, Council.

 

           19              This evening I would like to ask, even

 

           20              though they are not present here, the League

 

           21              of Women Voters in the next debate, I think

 

           22              it's important for the League of Women

 

           23              Voters to hand out a little notebook to all

 

           24              the participants in all of the upcoming

 

           25              debates.  I have a very unique opinion on


 

 

                                                                      40

 

 

            1              what took place at the League of Women

 

            2              Voters because Mr. Miller was sitting next

 

            3              to me, and if you look at the Scranton Times

 

            4              newspaper you will see that they take a

 

            5              picture of me drinking my water talking to

 

            6              Mr. Miller.  Well, Mr. Miller was under the

 

            7              impression that Mr. Rogan had written down

 

            8              on paper the order of the questions and the

 

            9              answers and Mr. Miller leans over to me and

 

           10              says, "Lee, I think Mr. Rogan has from what

 

           11              I can see all of questions written down and

 

           12              his answers."

 

           13                      And I find that very troubling.

 

           14              Now, Mr. Miller was completely unnerved by

 

           15              this and I said to him, look at, Doug, you

 

           16              have been in council for two years or more

 

           17              as a junior council president, there isn't

 

           18              anything you don't know about anything

 

           19              that's occurred at council.  Relax, open

 

           20              your spring water, take a drink and let's

 

           21              move on.

 

           22                      So what I'm saying to the League of

 

           23              Women Voters is that I think there was a

 

           24              problem there and I'm comfortable with the

 

           25              problem, but I think that -- I really do


 

 

                                                                      41

 

 

            1              think there was a problem there.

 

            2                      I'd like to move on to 5-G in

 

            3              regards to KOZ's.  I would really hope that

 

            4              this council would vote "no" to this

 

            5              legislation.  You know, we are all talking

 

            6              about blight in the city and everybody

 

            7              paying their fair share of taxes and to be

 

            8              honest with you, I mean, I have listened to

 

            9              the discussion, I was here when Mr. Namey

 

           10              came up and spoke about KOZ's a long time

 

           11              ago, I think Mark Walsh was the solicitor at

 

           12              that time, I think Mr. Murphy was the

 

           13              president of council.  You know, there is no

 

           14              real creation of jobs taking place with

 

           15              companies shifting from one to place to

 

           16              another.  It's going on all over the country

 

           17              and what they do is they use up their time

 

           18              and they move somewhere else.  They get a

 

           19              good deal and they move somewhere else.

 

           20                      We have got major foreign car

 

           21              manufacturers that have located to this

 

           22              country because states are actually building

 

           23              plants for them to build cars in, and what

 

           24              I'm saying is what benefit do the ordinary

 

           25              Scrantonians get from all of those KOZ's?  I


 

 

                                                                      42

 

 

            1              mean, if you are going to come in here and

 

            2              you're going to build a $35 million project

 

            3              and you are going to tell them you can't

 

            4              afford to pay the taxes on that I have a

 

            5              problem with that considering that when you

 

            6              are an ordinary working person and you are

 

            7              paying $3,000 property tax on your home and

 

            8              you may only earn 12 or 15 thousand dollars

 

            9              a year before taxes and you are hard pressed

 

           10              to just pay your taxes, pay your heat, pay

 

           11              your utilities and upkeep your property and

 

           12              we are wondering why there is all this

 

           13              blight in the city?

 

           14                      And then we come and we look at how

 

           15              we are funding our schools and in my

 

           16              opinion, you know, we are going back to the

 

           17              same homeowners saying, well, this year we

 

           18              are going to have raise your property tax

 

           19              five percent for school tax, and next year

 

           20              we are going to do the same thing and so

 

           21              forth and so on, and all we are doing is we

 

           22              are perpetuating a cycle of continual blight

 

           23              throughout this community.

 

           24                      It's time for this council to say,

 

           25              look at, you have to pay your share.  We


 

 

                                                                      43

 

 

            1              appreciate you coming here, okay, but if you

 

            2              can spend 60 million dollars to build a

 

            3              project then you should be able to pay the

 

            4              taxes on that or what we need to do is tell

 

            5              every citizen in this city that you don't

 

            6              have to pay your taxes.  I can it's a real

 

            7              problem here and they are walking away from

 

            8              multiple layers of taxation, and sooner or

 

            9              later you have to realize that if they want

 

           10              to move to Peckville, let them go, and then

 

           11              our residents can drive to Peckville, be

 

           12              employed there and bring the money home and

 

           13              not be sucked dry.  I mean, it's only

 

           14              reality that you can only go to the well so

 

           15              many times before there is nothing left, and

 

           16              there really is nothing left.

 

           17                      And the last comment I have is they

 

           18              are talking about redoing the Recovery Plan

 

           19              and I think that if we are going to redo a

 

           20              Recovery Plan we have to make a complete

 

           21              plan, we have to present it to the public,

 

           22              and it has to go to a vote again.  I think

 

           23              it's time after all these years because

 

           24              let's face it, okay, it's been alleged

 

           25              that -- thank you.


 

 

                                                                      44

 

 

            1                      MR. MCGOFF: Stephanie Gawel.

 

            2                      MS. GAWEL: Good evening, Council.  I

 

            3              want to start with a couple of questions.  I

 

            4              know the one speaker that comes has asked

 

            5              about it, but I was by the building again

 

            6              the other day and it made me think to ask,

 

            7              what's going on with the North Scranton, you

 

            8              know, like the -- like did we figure out

 

            9              what the Goodwill did with the $5 million

 

           10              because they really only did the front

 

           11              windows as far as I can see.  I know the

 

           12              side windows are all still board and stuff.

 

           13                      MS. GATELLI: They didn't spend the

 

           14              five million.

 

           15                      MS. GAWEL: Weren't they given a

 

           16              grant of $5 million?

 

           17                      MS. GATELLI: Yeah, but they didn't

 

           18              spend it yet.

 

           19                      MS. GAWEL: They didn't spend it so

 

           20              it's just sitting there do nothing?

 

           21                      MS. GATELLI: Yes.

 

           22                      MS. GAWEL: I have another question,

 

           23              on the rental properties I know they are

 

           24              supposed to be registered and some people

 

           25              registered them years ago, so -- or, you


 

 

                                                                      45

 

 

            1              know, got their permits or whatever, how

 

            2              come they don't get another bill in the mail

 

            3              like yearly?

 

            4                      MS. GATELLI: Because the program

 

            5              still is not functioning and I'm really not

 

            6              happy about it.

 

            7                      MS. GAWEL:  Okay.  All right.  I'm

 

            8              just asking, you know.

 

            9                      MS. GATELLI: They never got -- they

 

           10              were supposed to get a company hired to

 

           11              target all of the properties and that hasn't

 

           12              happened yet.  I hope it happens soon.

 

           13                      MS. GAWEL:  Okay.  Mrs. Fanucci, I

 

           14              was working on a plan, somebody took part of

 

           15              my idea, but not all, and once in a while we

 

           16              actually do agree with you.

 

           17                      MS. FANUCCI: Right.

 

           18                      MS. GAWEL:  I do agree with you, not

 

           19              everybody has computers in their homes, they

 

           20              just don't, some can't afford it, some don't

 

           21              want it, whatever, but I don't think we need

 

           22              the new library, I just don't, but I was

 

           23              thinking, and I'm not being sarcastic even

 

           24              though it might sound it, why not use some

 

           25              of the floors of the Southern Union building


 

 

                                                                      46

 

 

            1              to put computer rooms in there and the --

 

            2                      MS. FANUCCI: The Southern Union has

 

            3              been purchased by someone.  It is privately

 

            4              owned now.  There are businesses in there.

 

            5                      MS. GAWEL: Oh, really?

 

            6                      MS. FANUCCI: Yes.  Southern Union is

 

            7              not empty, it is functioning and, you know,

 

            8              there is a new coffee shop in there, too,

 

            9              you should stop by, it's very nice.  But,

 

           10              you know, Southern Union is a functioning

 

           11              building now privately owned.

 

           12                      MS. GAWEL:  All right.  But, you

 

           13              know, to find a place like they said where

 

           14              Steve and Barns or whatever it was, you

 

           15              know, and just set up computers for people

 

           16              to use, you know, because it's more, you

 

           17              know, really people don't use the books that

 

           18              much anymore and stuff, everybody -- a lot

 

           19              of people use the computers if they could

 

           20              so, all right.

 

           21                      Mr. Minora, I haven't asked you in a

 

           22              couple of weeks, how is Kenny McDowell

 

           23              doing?

 

           24                      MR. MINORA: As soon as I get a

 

           25              report or an order from the judge I'll let


 

 

                                                                      47

 

 

            1              you know.

 

            2                      MS. GAWEL:  Okay.  Just didn't want

 

            3              to let it go.  All right, I'm still hearing

 

            4              rumors that some of the firehouses may be

 

            5              closing, could somebody double check on that

 

            6              now that the election is basically over?

 

            7              Okay.  I'd like to mention that I got my

 

            8              first weekend edition of the Times Leader,

 

            9              it was very a nice paper.  It was very

 

           10              enjoyable.  People might actually want to

 

           11              start getting it in the mail.  You can get

 

           12              it on Saturdays in the mail.

 

           13                      MS. FANUCCI:  But now there is going

 

           14              to be no Scranton edition; right?

 

           15                      MS. GAWEL:  It's the Scranton

 

           16              edition.

 

           17                      MS. FANUCCI: Yeah, but I thought

 

           18              they were stopping that.

 

           19                      MS. GAWEL:  It's for Saturday only.

 

           20                      MS. FANUCCI: Oh, all right.

 

           21                      MS. GAWEL: It's a nice, nice

 

           22              edition.  It has the Parade section in it

 

           23              that the Times just decided we didn't need

 

           24              that I actually enjoyed and stuff, so I was

 

           25              wondering, you know, like we are always


 

 

                                                                      48

 

 

            1              talking about the economic situations and

 

            2              the cost of running the offices and this

 

            3              that and the other thing, has anybody

 

            4              thought of doing like a split schedule of

 

            5              like 8 to 6 so that the people like me who

 

            6              work from five in the morning until

 

            7              sometimes 5:00 at night can get into the

 

            8              buildings to do the business that we do?

 

            9              You know, in other words, have a 6 to 8 and

 

           10              have it overlapped a little bit where there

 

           11              wouldn't be overtime, but it would be --

 

           12                      MS. FANUCCI: I'm not sure with the

 

           13              union contracts we can do that, but we can

 

           14              check into it.

 

           15                      MS. GAWEL:  Because it's just a

 

           16              thought.  It gives people more of an

 

           17              opportunity to take care of business that

 

           18              they don't have an opportunity to do during

 

           19              the week.

 

           20                      Also, Mrs. Gatelli, you seem to have

 

           21              a pretty good rapport with PennDOT, could

 

           22              you see --

 

           23                      MS. GATELLI: For the pedestrian

 

           24              walkways I do.

 

           25                      MS. GAWEL:  Well, I know I have


 

 

                                                                      49

 

 

            1              asked with this once before, but again, I

 

            2              wanted to bring it up.  Again, the arrows on

 

            3              the streets at Mulberry and Wyoming where

 

            4              you have the one-lane goes left and the one

 

            5              goes center and then the other one goes

 

            6              straight or right, and like if it's not

 

            7              marked, and it's not these days, you know,

 

            8              there is a lot of chance of something

 

            9              happening.

 

           10                      Also, Sherry, just real quick, who

 

           11              kind of backtracks on like that place that's

 

           12              supposed to have 30 jobs over the next three

 

           13              years?  Who keeps an eye on making sure they

 

           14              keep up with that?

 

           15                      MS. FANUCCI: Well, the job

 

           16              requirement actually for that business is

 

           17              only probably two, I believe, I'd have to

 

           18              look it up, but there is only two so they

 

           19              are creating a lot more jobs than they are

 

           20              asked, but the state actually checks on it

 

           21              to make sure that the job creation is done

 

           22              or they actually get penalized and have to

 

           23              pay the money back.

 

           24                      MS. GAWEL: Okay.  All right.  I

 

           25              think it's for tonight.


 

 

                                                                      50

 

 

            1                      MS. GATELLI:  Mulberry and Wyoming?

 

            2                      MS. GAWEL:  Yeah.  Thank you.  Have

 

            3              a nice evening.

 

            4                      MR. MCGOFF: Brett McCloe.

 

            5                      MR. MCCLOE: Good evening.  My name

 

            6              is Bret McCloe.  It's kind of hard to

 

            7              disassociate from the events of the weekend,

 

            8              so I'm probably going to just cut out a lot

 

            9              of it and move on to a different subject,

 

           10              but I just want to read something that I did

 

           11              write, something really small: Her name, her

 

           12              life I will not mention for I am no stranger

 

           13              to her condition.  Confusion and fear that

 

           14              clouds the mind cause action and death to

 

           15              coincide.

 

           16                      I just want to -- I hope that the

 

           17              mayor and this council can find ways to make

 

           18              funds available to equip and to train our

 

           19              police force with nonlethal weaponry and

 

           20              nonlethal solutions for the people and for

 

           21              the police.  This would be one piece of

 

           22              legislation that I'm quite sure it deserves

 

           23              a rubber stamp.

 

           24                      I'm going to move onto something

 

           25              else since I'm not going to go through the


 

 

                                                                      51

 

 

            1              rest of this, but as for the library, I

 

            2              walked into the South Side bank down there

 

            3              and I don't see this that a brand new

 

            4              library needs to be built.  Perhaps that

 

            5              would be better suited as a branch.  You

 

            6              could probably put a lot of books in just

 

            7              the existing building, and it looks like

 

            8              there's a big -- there is a second floor,

 

            9              but you can bring that in a little bit and

 

           10              actually put more books in there and leave

 

           11              it as a branch that would probably only cost

 

           12              maybe a million dollars just to redo it as a

 

           13              South Side branch.

 

           14                      If you truly, truly wanted another

 

           15              library, who owns the building at 201 of

 

           16              Lackawanna Avenue where the McCann building

 

           17              -- the McCann people used to be in?  Who

 

           18              owns that building?

 

           19                      MS. GATELLI: I think the chamber.

 

           20                      MR. MCCLOE:  The chamber?

 

           21                      MS. FANUCCI: Yes, the Scranton

 

           22              Enterprise, it's the Chamber.  It's the

 

           23              incubator of the building.

 

           24                      MR. MCCLOE: I mean, what better

 

           25              place for a new Scranton library than a


 

 

                                                                      52

 

 

            1              previous existing building?  If there was

 

            2              anyway you could talk to the Scranton

 

            3              Chamber of Commerce and have these

 

            4              businesses and ask them, "Are you okay?  Are

 

            5              you ready to go into our previous existing

 

            6              buildings?"

 

            7                      MS. FANUCCI: It's already been

 

            8              rented and it's already filled I believe.

 

            9                      MR. MCCLOE:  With?

 

           10                      MS. FANUCCI:  Yeah, there is company

 

           11              who was existing in the business center that

 

           12              expanded and I believe they took most of

 

           13              that area.

 

           14                      MR. MCCLOE: And they can't find

 

           15              another place?  They can't even build

 

           16              another building?

 

           17                      MS. FANUCCI:  Who can't?

 

           18                      MR. MCCLOE:  The business that is in

 

           19              there.

 

           20                      MS. FANUCCI: Well, I think that

 

           21              eventually they probably will, but the whole

 

           22              idea is to get them until they grow to a

 

           23              certain level and then they go to a new

 

           24              area.

 

           25                      MR. MCCLOE: It was just a thought.


 

 

                                                                      53

 

 

            1                      MS. FANUCCI: Yeah, it's a good one.

 

            2                      MR. MCCLOE: It was just thought.

 

            3              That would have been really nice place if

 

            4              you were going to have another Scranton

 

            5              public library it would be right down there.

 

            6              You would be able to, as Mr. Ozzie Quinn

 

            7              said, slap a hundred computers somewhere in

 

            8              there and call it an Ibrary, you know, with

 

            9              all of the Internet hookups and you could

 

           10              put hundreds of computers in there and the

 

           11              books and everything else.

 

           12                      Perhaps move some of these

 

           13              businesses over to -- make a deal with the

 

           14              Dioceses.  Let's fill up Bishop Hannon or

 

           15              something, you know, just to use the

 

           16              existing buildings that we do have instead

 

           17              of $16 million for something in South Side

 

           18              that may not be needed there.  It's not

 

           19              convenient, I don't believe.  I think we

 

           20              just need to stop focusing on form and start

 

           21              focusing on function and try to resolve and

 

           22              reorganize our city's assets instead of keep

 

           23              on building new ones.  Thank you.  That's

 

           24              all I have.  Thank you.

 

           25                      MR. MCGOFF: Ron Ellman.


 

 

                                                                      54

 

 

            1                      MR. ELLMAN: Ronnie Ellman.  Hi,

 

            2              Council.  It's embarrassing for me to get up

 

            3              here and flap my gums after so many

 

            4              intelligent people come up here.  I have my

 

            5              usual nonsense I guess.  I was down in

 

            6              Hazelton --

 

            7                      MS. GATELLI: Don't down yourself

 

            8              like that.

 

            9                      MR. ELLMAN: I beat myself up.

 

           10                      MS. GATELLI: We enjoy you.

 

           11                      MR. ELLMAN:  I went down to Hazleton

 

           12              Friday, I am thinking about buying a new car

 

           13              and I don't know I talked to four or five or

 

           14              six different people and without me bringing

 

           15              it up every single one of them brought the

 

           16              idea for the crime down here was so bad, you

 

           17              know.  It's just from what I heard it's just

 

           18              terrible.  I guess we are more fortunate

 

           19              than a lot of us think up here in town, you

 

           20              know, we don't have open crime on the street

 

           21              like they do down there.  Nobody blamed the

 

           22              mayor or the police or, you know, nobody put

 

           23              a blame on it, they were just talking about

 

           24              it that the streets just aren't save

 

           25              anymore.


 

 

                                                                      55

 

 

            1                      After last week I thought maybe

 

            2              Mr. Doherty would come and confront me after

 

            3              all of these terrible things I said about

 

            4              him.  I guess he is just -- I don't know, it

 

            5              looked like the Boy Wonder would want to

 

            6              protect his Honor and say something about

 

            7              his honor when somebody keeps attacking him

 

            8              week after week.  I guess I could attack the

 

            9              newspaper because I don't like them either.

 

           10                      MS. GATELLI: I'll second that.

 

           11                      MR. ELLMAN: All this newspaper in

 

           12              this town is good for is wrapping your

 

           13              garbage with.  I don't know, they're a

 

           14              purveyor and an advocator of lies and

 

           15              distortions from this election which I'm not

 

           16              the only one.  I have just heard some

 

           17              intelligent business people have remarked

 

           18              that was the last worst election that this

 

           19              city ever had because of Mr. Doherty's

 

           20              actions and accusations.

 

           21                      I sat here and I stood her a couple

 

           22              of weeks ago and said he is running scared

 

           23              and only somebody like that would bring it

 

           24              to such a low point.  This is the worst

 

           25              election this city has ever had, you know,


 

 

                                                                      56

 

 

            1              from what business people at the Taurus Club

 

            2              who I talked to them, you know.  My brief

 

            3              conversations.

 

            4                      I don't know.  And about the KOZ's,

 

            5              I think too many people forgot about that --

 

            6              I don't remember what it was, it must be

 

            7              20 years ago they built the Volkswagon

 

            8              plant, they stayed nine years and

 

            9              disappeared.  My father had two motels in

 

           10              Corinth, Mississippi, in the 60's and the

 

           11              city built six or eight huge plants to bring

 

           12              people from Massachusetts down there, the

 

           13              same thing happened, they stayed six,

 

           14              eight years and all, you know, left after --

 

           15              when it got near time for the taxes.

 

           16                      The KOZ's, I have said it, we need

 

           17              taxpayers.  Who cares if they go three miles

 

           18              down the road, let somebody else support

 

           19              them.  We need taxpayers, like Andy said, if

 

           20              they don't want to pay taxes we just don't

 

           21              need them no more.  A fourth of the city

 

           22              doesn't pay taxes.  That's a lot of -- there

 

           23              is 40,000 -- Mr. Sunday told me there was

 

           24              about 40,000 taxpayers, you know, sent out

 

           25              ever year.  We are just in terrible shape


 

 

                                                                      57

 

 

            1              financially and, you know, tell me how Daron

 

            2              Industries, how are they --  you know, they

 

            3              don't have 40 people working there, there is

 

            4              two or three cars in the parking lot unless

 

            5              they got some kind of superplan for bringing

 

            6              the people in from Ashley every day, there

 

            7              must be 40 of them in one car.  They haven't

 

            8              hired nobody.  You can go to the single tax

 

            9              office and find out who was hired and who

 

           10              hasn't.  There is no number like you are

 

           11              thinking.

 

           12                      That property that I complained

 

           13              about on Seventh and Lackawanna, ten years

 

           14              -- I think it's eight years or 13 years

 

           15              whatever it is, it's a -- like I said, the

 

           16              best location in the city for a business and

 

           17              then they'd have to pay taxes.  Let me just

 

           18              finish, those 150 houses out on Keyser

 

           19              Avenue how in the world did they help this

 

           20              city any?  We have to build a school there

 

           21              is so many kids going out there.  The KOZ,

 

           22              you know, it's for rich people.  Let Austin

 

           23              Burke, you know, it's time that -- he's a

 

           24              dinosaur for crying out loud, let him quit

 

           25              staying and spending his day out there at


 

 

                                                                      58

 

 

            1              the country club playing golf and get out

 

            2              here and find out what the world is really

 

            3              like and maybe he wouldn't want a KOZ, three

 

            4              or 400 properties around town.  Thank you.

 

            5                      MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Mr. Ellman.

 

            6              Mr. Dobson.

 

            7                      MR. DOBSON: We are going to have to

 

            8              hold an Ozzie look alike contest.  Okay, I

 

            9              would like to have a little tiny speech

 

           10              prepared here and it really would require

 

           11              coordination with the state and federal

 

           12              government, but with this economic stimulus

 

           13              and so forth it's important that we not

 

           14              spend this money on trinkets, and to

 

           15              institute a few trinkets.

 

           16                      In this town, state and country we

 

           17              need a return to manufacturing.  Trade pacts

 

           18              are ill-conceived, lopsided and cause the

 

           19              decay of our employment prospects, and

 

           20              everyone complains about GM, in fact, the

 

           21              type of government franchise is common in

 

           22              favor of the trade nation status countries

 

           23              along with currency manipulation and several

 

           24              other things.

 

           25                      I have stressed industrial parks to


 

 

                                                                      59

 

 

            1              little or no avail, energy is our achilles

 

            2              heel and recently an ethanol plant was

 

            3              discouraged before anyone heard the real

 

            4              discussion.  Rail service was available,

 

            5              could have eliminated truck traffic, wood

 

            6              shavings instead of food substances, and to

 

            7              my knowledge no KOZ was really requested,

 

            8              although, it could have been in the future

 

            9              and certainly could have been refused.

 

           10                      Please begin to survey our

 

           11              brownfields and put the return to tax

 

           12              producing job sustaining and product

 

           13              producing companies and not just recycled

 

           14              paper.

 

           15                      Now, here is a little extra, for

 

           16              instance, we heard a clinic, another clinic.

 

           17              Well, these satellite clinics are not

 

           18              originally supposed to be tax exempt, but

 

           19              they don't have to fix anybody up that shows

 

           20              up at their door.  They could demand payment

 

           21              upon production of the goods and services.

 

           22              A hospital, if I go in with a gunshot wound

 

           23              to a heart attack if they don't fix me up

 

           24              the right way even though I'm not a paying

 

           25              customer I could sue them.  Satellite


 

 

                                                                      60

 

 

            1              clinics don't have to touch me.

 

            2                      Some of these local nonprofits in

 

            3              relation to this library proposal, I have

 

            4              noticed by going down the library that it's

 

            5              nearly impossible at times, not every day

 

            6              because somebody mentioned yesterday that

 

            7              they can get on at any time until 8:00, but

 

            8              you can't get near a computer, it's all

 

            9              college-age kids down at the Albright

 

           10              library in the afternoons especially, so why

 

           11              at 40 grand a year why these colleges can't

 

           12              provide better service for these students.

 

           13              I have to seriously criticize them.

 

           14                      I mean, like the shootings last year

 

           15              at these colleges it's ridiculous.  Why

 

           16              can't they provide a police force and a

 

           17              security force and computers and so forth?

 

           18              It's really ashame that, you know, somebody

 

           19              from Lackawanna County that's paying taxes

 

           20              might not be able to get on a computer and a

 

           21              foreign exchange student can come here.

 

           22              What does that have to do with somebody that

 

           23              paid library taxes in Scranton other than

 

           24              denies them access, and it's really ashame

 

           25              that these local colleges.  I mean, once


 

 

                                                                      61

 

 

            1              this issue with the medical college is I

 

            2              think really the Lackawanna Junior College

 

            3              should provide some computers for their

 

            4              kids.  It's ashame.

 

            5                      And another thing on these foreign

 

            6              trade pacts, pollution.  25 percent of the

 

            7              air pollution in California comes imported

 

            8              from China, 25 percent.  You have to pay for

 

            9              a catalytic convertor on your car, do you

 

           10              not, and the emission system and everything

 

           11              else, well, they could just spew it over and

 

           12              put you out after a job with cheap goods.

 

           13              It's really ashame, so we really do need to

 

           14              get away from paper industries and all they

 

           15              generate is paper and office space generates

 

           16              recycling of paper as far as I'm concerned.

 

           17              Have a god night.  Thank you.

 

           18                      MR. MCGOFF: Bill Jackowitz.

 

           19                      MR. JACKOWITZ: Bill Jackowitz, South

 

           20              Scranton resident, member of the Scranton

 

           21              Taxpayers' Association.  2010 we will have

 

           22              three new council members, maybe four.  My

 

           23              hope is that a new council will also mean

 

           24              new ideas, working together, including the

 

           25              residents, not excluding the residents.


 

 

                                                                      62

 

 

            1              Open caucuses for a public to attend not

 

            2              held in caged tiny offices in the back of

 

            3              the council office also televised so that

 

            4              the residents at home can also be informed.

 

            5                      Scranton was must come up with ways

 

            6              to raise revenue not taxes.  Taxes must be

 

            7              reduced.  Wage tax, mercantile tax, property

 

            8              tax, all of these taxes have been and will

 

            9              continue to be the downfall of Scranton.

 

           10              Just ask any person who has moved from

 

           11              Scranton to the surrounding community why

 

           12              they moved or ask a small business owner why

 

           13              they relocated or went out of business.

 

           14              Always the same answer:  Taxes too high.

 

           15                      Just look at the past history,

 

           16              population decline, business failures,

 

           17              downtown vacant buildings and store fronts.

 

           18              A $16 million library is not the answer.

 

           19              Yes, not everybody can afford a computer in

 

           20              Scranton.  Why?  Could it be that

 

           21              unemployment is at 8.6 percent?  Minimum

 

           22              family income the lowest in the state.  Per

 

           23              capita income the lowest in the state.  No

 

           24              job creation in the city that pays family

 

           25              sustaining wages of 3.4 percent wage tax,


 

 

                                                                      63

 

 

            1              distressed city status and Recovery Plan

 

            2              that does not recover anything except more

 

            3              debt, new hires and pay raises for the

 

            4              selected few.

 

            5                      These are issues, not a knew library

 

            6              in south Scranton.  Many years ago South

 

            7              Scranton had a library on Pittston Avenue,

 

            8              Scranton population over 100,000 then.

 

            9                      Single tax office, the law has been

 

           10              violated is continuing to be broken.  Single

 

           11              Tax Law 1929.  What are you going to do

 

           12              about that?  As a taxpayer, I know as much

 

           13              about what happened at the single tax office

 

           14              today as I did 14 months ago.  Nothing.

 

           15              Whatever happened to fair, honest and open

 

           16              government?  Why has Kenny McDowell not been

 

           17              required to answer any questions and give

 

           18              explanations about his public service as tax

 

           19              collector?

 

           20                      I have asked these questions for

 

           21              weeks.  No answers.  If you are not going to

 

           22              answer at least give me the courtesy to tell

 

           23              me why you will not answer the questions

 

           24              during your motions.

 

           25                      MR. MCGOFF: Excuse me, you did get


 

 

                                                                      64

 

 

            1              an answer on why Mr. McDowell is not here,

 

            2              it was just given more before.  It's still

 

            3              in the courts.

 

            4                      MR. JACKOWITZ:  Exactly, but I'm not

 

            5              talking about that, I'm talking about why

 

            6              the district attorney has not initiated an

 

            7              investigation, Mr. McGoff, into the crimes

 

            8              that were broken.

 

            9                      MS. GATELLI:  He answered that, too.

 

           10                      MR. JACKOWITZ:  There's a violation

 

           11              of the Single Tax Office 1929.

 

           12                      MS. GATELLI: Mr. Jackowitz, do you

 

           13              have a copy of the letter that we got from

 

           14              Jarbola?

 

           15                      MR. JACKOWITZ: I do not have a copy

 

           16              of it, no, I do not.

 

           17                      MS. GATELLI: We will give you a copy

 

           18              of that because he did answer it.

 

           19                      MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay.

 

           20                      MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Garvey will have

 

           21              it.

 

           22                      MR. FANUCCI: And actually Attorney

 

           23              Minora could you answer about the law in 19

 

           24              -- you know, it's claiming 00.

 

           25                      MR. JACKOWITZ: The laws have been


 

 

                                                                      65

 

 

            1              violated.

 

            2                      MS. FANUCCI: He is saying the law

 

            3              has been violated, can you explain.

 

            4                      MR. JACKOWITZ: Single Tax Law of

 

            5              1929 and that's not a year that's the number

 

            6              of the law 1929.

 

            7                      MS. FANUCCI: Right.

 

            8                      MR. JACKOWITZ: It's made publicized

 

            9              and I've been informed by the Federal Bureau

 

           10              of investigation they have informed me that

 

           11              the law has been broken and somebody should

 

           12              do something about it.

 

           13                      MS. GATELLI: Do you have a copy of

 

           14              that, Bill?

 

           15                      MR. JACKOWITZ: I could probably get

 

           16              one if I really need to, but it's not my

 

           17              job.  I'm not the district attorney.

 

           18                      MS. FANUCCI:  Yeah, well, neither

 

           19              are we, Bill.

 

           20                      MR. MCGOFF: Please.

 

           21                      MR. JACKOWITZ: I understand that.  I

 

           22              understand that.  I hope my time is not

 

           23              being --

 

           24                      MR. MCGOFF:  Please continue, I'm

 

           25              sorry.


 

 

                                                                      66

 

 

            1                      MR. JACKOWITZ:  No problem.  Okay,

 

            2              voting "yes" all of the time is not the

 

            3              answer.  Voting "no" all of the time is not

 

            4              the answer either.  Each vote should be

 

            5              thoroughly researched and discussed before

 

            6              you cast that vote.  Remember, every vote

 

            7              that is it taken by city council effects

 

            8              every citizen of Scranton.  One person,

 

            9              Mayor Doherty, is not always correct.  Many

 

           10              of his ideas have been failures such as

 

           11              borrowing to balance budgets, glass to send

 

           12              us all on sand or icy snow covered roads,

 

           13              downtown improvements, Recovery Plan that

 

           14              has not been implemented, selling off city

 

           15              assets, arbitrations and court cases,

 

           16              5.5 million into the budget without having

 

           17              the money available, ECTV, and most

 

           18              importantly, his reluctance to appear and

 

           19              speak to the residents of Scranton.  He

 

           20              prefers to speak with the Chamber of

 

           21              Commerce.

 

           22                      Tonight's vote on the office park

 

           23              KOZ's, can the residents afford to continue

 

           24              to give away property to developers and

 

           25              business owners who are not willing to pay


 

 

                                                                      67

 

 

            1              for the services that will be provided to

 

            2              them by the Scranton taxpayers?  25 percent

 

            3              of the population in Scranton do not pay

 

            4              taxes currently.

 

            5                      Job creation is great.  New business

 

            6              in the city is also great, but is it

 

            7              progress if they are not willing to pay

 

            8              their fair share.  Remember -- may I finish?

 

            9                      MR. MCGOFF: Um-hum.

 

           10                      MR. JACKOWITZ:  Remember, if you

 

           11              want to hear your band you must pay the

 

           12              band.  KOZ's have not helped the City of

 

           13              Scranton progress in the past.  If KOZ have

 

           14              helped the city we would no longer be in the

 

           15              distressed city status.  I am not against

 

           16              progress, I am against give-aways.  You milk

 

           17              cows, not taxpayers.  City revenue is based

 

           18              upon tax revenue.  If you pay no taxes, what

 

           19              revenue does the city have?  What are we

 

           20              promoting?  Move to Scranton and pay no

 

           21              taxes?  Is that really progress?  If they

 

           22              want to move to Olyphant or Peckville, let

 

           23              them go.  We will still get the wage tax

 

           24              because Scranton residents will be working

 

           25              there.


 

 

                                                                      68

 

 

            1                      MR. MCGOFF: Marie Schumacher.

 

            2                      MS. SCHUMACHER: Good evening.  Marie

 

            3              Schumacher, resident and member of the

 

            4              Taxpayers' Association.  I was happy to read

 

            5              that Rip Van Pennsylvania Economy League has

 

            6              finally awakened.  I believe this will be

 

            7              PEL's third attempt at a Recovery Plan.  I

 

            8              pray Recovery plans work as does baseball,

 

            9              three strikes and you are out.

 

           10                      Now my favorite topic of late, the

 

           11              $600,000 rent owed pie BRT Ice to the City

 

           12              of Scranton.  Solicitor Minora was kind

 

           13              enough last week to point out that I have

 

           14              the incorrect agreement.  I now have the

 

           15              correct agreement of which I will read the

 

           16              section on payment of rent that includes the

 

           17              three conditions that must be met:

 

           18                      "Lessee shall $600,000 to lessor as

 

           19              rent for the lease premises.  Lessee shall

 

           20              make minimum annual payments every 12 months

 

           21              begin beginning on the date hereof in the

 

           22              amount of no less than $1 provided, however,

 

           23              that any unpaid rent under this paragraph

 

           24              shall be paid by the lessee to lessor in a

 

           25              lump sum within 30 days following the


 

 

                                                                      69

 

 

            1              occurrence of the last to occur of:  One,

 

            2              vacation of the lease premises by DPW in

 

            3              total as on the date provided for hereunder;

 

            4              or, two, certification of the lease land by

 

            5              the City of Scranton Planning Commission as

 

            6              within a redevelopment area as that term is

 

            7              defined by law, approved by redevelopment

 

            8              contract for the lease land including

 

            9              transfer of the lease land to the lessee by

 

           10              the SRA and approval of said redevelopment

 

           11              contract by city council."

 

           12                      Clearly DPW has vacated the

 

           13              premises.  City planner, Don King, reports

 

           14              that the certification has occurred leaving

 

           15              only the final conditions.  So I return to

 

           16              my former question, three years ago the SRA

 

           17              sent the agreement to council for approval

 

           18              and it was never placed on the agenda, so

 

           19              why hasn't council requested the SRA to

 

           20              draft an acceptable agreement so the city

 

           21              may see the $600,000 rent where ordered, we

 

           22              are owed.

 

           23                      Finally, I would like to speak to

 

           24              the KOZ extension, which I hope will be

 

           25              rejected.  First, if this development is to


 

 

                                                                      70

 

 

            1              be the first spinoff of benefit to the

 

            2              Community Medical College's host community,

 

            3              any financial benefit will be negated if all

 

            4              taxes are suspended for seven years.  The

 

            5              benefit to a medical complex such as is

 

            6              being advertised, but not put into a

 

            7              contract I might add, is the proximity to

 

            8              the medical college provided by the Scranton

 

            9              host community, that alone should be

 

           10              sufficient.

 

           11                      Second, the Scranton Plan, the

 

           12              industrial marketing arm of the Greater

 

           13              Scranton Chamber of Commerce, provides a

 

           14              chart on it's website illustrating annual

 

           15              savings for various scenarios for KOZ's.

 

           16              The range of annual savings for the closest

 

           17              scenario, a pharmaceutical company with

 

           18              20,000 square feet and 500 employees ranges

 

           19              from 2 million to $2.4 million.

 

           20                      Now, if the Mt. Pleasant provides

 

           21              the advertised 1,000 jobs that is five times

 

           22              the savings or $10 million to $12 million of

 

           23              state and local taxes that are avoided each

 

           24              year for seven years.

 

           25                      This council failed to request


 

 

                                                                      71

 

 

            1              legislative support for the tax exempt

 

            2              property municipal fund which would have

 

            3              provided funds to help offset the loss of

 

            4              property taxes from the 25 percent of

 

            5              properties that are permanently off the tax

 

            6              roles.  Coincidentally, today's

 

            7              Times-Tribune had an article about Benco

 

            8              Dental opening a headquarters and

 

            9              distribution center in Center Point Park in

 

           10              Jenkins Township which is in Luzerne County.

 

           11              The Center Point Park Center is a local

 

           12              economic redevelopment tax assist or LERTA.

 

           13              A LERTA that may exempt a tax exemption up

 

           14              to the actual cost of the development.  This

 

           15              type of incentive would be far more

 

           16              appropriate for the Mount Pleasant Park as

 

           17              it would provide an incentive without

 

           18              burdening the existing property and business

 

           19              owners by forcing them to subsidize Mount

 

           20              Pleasant for seven years.  May I finish?

 

           21                      MR. MCGOFF: Please.

 

           22                      MS. SCHUMACHER: As we have been

 

           23              told, the money must come from somewhere and

 

           24              that somewhere turns out to be us taxpayers.

 

           25              Vote this KOZ extension down.  Borrowing via


 

 

                                                                      72

 

 

            1              bonds will also be expensive if it's even

 

            2              possible, so we must get all of the revenue

 

            3              we can and save every place we can.

 

            4                      And I will end with one announcement

 

            5              that the food down at the Greek festival at

 

            6              the church one block away is fantastic.

 

            7              Thank you.

 

            8                      MR. MCGOFF: Any other speakers?

 

            9                      MR. UNGVARSKY:  Good evening, city

 

           10              council.  I'm Tom Ungvarsky.  Over the last

 

           11              few years speakers at this podium have asked

 

           12              for Mr. Austin Burke to come here and

 

           13              explain just what the Chamber of Commerce

 

           14              does do for this city.  He has never

 

           15              appeared.  A few months ago when he wanted a

 

           16              KOZ he did come into the office of the City

 

           17              Council, but he could not appear here.  He

 

           18              gave the council his plan for Mount

 

           19              Pleasant.  However, unlike Mr. Boscov, who

 

           20              was gentleman enough to come here and

 

           21              explain what he had in store or what he

 

           22              wanted from the city, Mr. Burke would not

 

           23              come out here.

 

           24                      MR. MCGOFF: Excuse me, that was by

 

           25              our decision, not his.


 

 

                                                                      73

 

 

            1                      MR. UNGVARSKY:  Well, excuse me,

 

            2              whether it's by your decision or his he

 

            3              still should have been man enough to come

 

            4              out here and explain to the people what he

 

            5              wanted to do and what it was going to cost

 

            6              us.  That KOZ up there has already got

 

            7              several million dollars to put in the

 

            8              structural plan of it.  They have gone far

 

            9              enough of whether you vote that or not, they

 

           10              are going to go ahead with that project.

 

           11                      Should that project go through as a

 

           12              KOZ there will be no property taxes

 

           13              collected for another ten years.  There will

 

           14              be no mercantile tax collected there for

 

           15              another ten years and there will be no wage

 

           16              tax collected there for another ten years.

 

           17              That means people like myself who for the

 

           18              last 30 years have been paying our property

 

           19              taxes and our fees will have to bite the

 

           20              bullet and pay even more.  I hope this city

 

           21              council comes to it's senses and votes it

 

           22              down.

 

           23                      MS. ROYCE: Hi.  Good evening.

 

           24              Bernadette Royce, West Scranton.  I'm going

 

           25              to keep this very short and very sweet this


 

 

                                                                      74

 

 

            1              evening.  Obviously, couldn't have been here

 

            2              last week, I had work.  My red and white

 

            3              firehouse sign is still present.  It will

 

            4              stay there despite the election results and

 

            5              despite any cheerleaders of the mayor who

 

            6              want to get here and throw any temper

 

            7              tantrums which they do every so often

 

            8              complaining that I need to take my red and

 

            9              white firehouse sign.  My sign will stay

 

           10              there until I am sure that the mayor will

 

           11              not cut the firehouses by 50 percent in this

 

           12              city like he has pledged to do.

 

           13                      I believe last week, I was able to

 

           14              watch the city council meeting, that

 

           15              Mrs. Evans said that she has yet to receive

 

           16              and that the council has yet to receive the

 

           17              mayor's letter stating what his plans are.

 

           18              It has been two months since the mayor

 

           19              stated in the Scranton Times that he has no

 

           20              plans to close the fire companies.  It's

 

           21              been two months in his office and it's just

 

           22              down the hall.  Does it really take him two

 

           23              months time to walk a letter down the hall?

 

           24              I don't think it should take him two months

 

           25              time to respond to the city council.  There


 

 

                                                                      75

 

 

            1              is also this thing called e-mail if he

 

            2              hasn't heard it.  He talks about wanting to

 

            3              move forward in the city, well, he can send

 

            4              an e-mail then if he really wants to move

 

            5              forward.

 

            6                      So I think we all know that he will

 

            7              close the firehouses when given the

 

            8              opportunity, so my red and white sign will

 

            9              stay there and the citizens of Scranton need

 

           10              to be aware that the mayor needs to be

 

           11              stopped in his plans.  Thank you very much

 

           12              and have a good evening.

 

           13                      MR. SLEDENZSKI: Hi, Judes?

 

           14                      MS. GATELLI: Hi, Chrissy.

 

           15                      MR. SLEDENZSKI: Hello, Bill.

 

           16                      MR. COURTRIGHT: Hi, Chris.

 

           17                      MR. SLEDENZSKI: Up, Bill?

 

           18                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Pick it up, Buddy.

 

           19                      MR. SLEDENZSKI: Judy, I had enough

 

           20              of it this week.  No more Scranton, Judy.

 

           21              I'm going back to West Scranton.  I'm going

 

           22              back home, baby.

 

           23                      MS. GATELLI: All right.

 

           24                      MR. SLEDENZSKI: I'm going back home,

 

           25              Billy.


 

 

                                                                      76

 

 

            1                      MS. DOMINICK:  Donna Dominick,

 

            2              homeowner, taxpayer.  I just have one

 

            3              question, you can answer about it, Bill.  Is

 

            4              there any particular reason why all patrol

 

            5              cars aren't equipped with a cage for

 

            6              transport?

 

            7                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Is there a

 

            8              particular reason?

 

            9                      MS. DOMINICK: Yeah.

 

           10                      MR. COURTRIGHT: No.  There is many

 

           11              that don't have them.

 

           12                      MS. DOMINICK: Right.

 

           13                      MR. COURTRIGHT: Why --

 

           14                      MR. DOMINICK: It just seems that if

 

           15              like Car 18 is tied up or other cars are on

 

           16              call and then the guy that doesn't have a

 

           17              cage is transporting has to wait and see if

 

           18              somebody is available to do transport for

 

           19              him, it would just seem like -- you would

 

           20              think to make it easier across the board

 

           21              they would all have a cage.

 

           22                      MR. COURTRIGHT: You know, Donna, I

 

           23              addressed that with Captain Graziano and he

 

           24              had given me a sheet several months ago of

 

           25              which cars had them and which ones didn't


 

 

                                                                      77

 

 

            1              and he was trying to more cars because it's

 

            2              a problem, you are right.

 

            3                      MS. DOMINICK: It is.

 

            4                      MR. COURTRIGHT: We never have

 

            5              transport vehicles.

 

            6                      MS. DOMINICK:  Right.

 

            7                      MR. COURTRIGHT: I'll talk to Captain

 

            8              Graziano again and see where we stand.

 

            9                      MR. DOMINICK: Okay.  Thanks, Bill.

 

           10                      MR COURTRIGHT: All right?  You are

 

           11              welcome.

 

           12                      MS. DOMINICK: Good night.

 

           13                      MR. ANCHERANI: Good evening.  Nelson

 

           14              Ancherani, First Amendment Rights.  It looks

 

           15              look the Recovery Plan was brought to the

 

           16              forefront again by the slimes.  The state is

 

           17              working on the plan now.  Wow.  We can

 

           18              really have faith in this one.  Fred

 

           19              Reading, PA Economy League, the head,

 

           20              finally got his head out of the sand and is

 

           21              getting ready to write another Recovery Plan

 

           22              to replace the one that was violated from

 

           23              the beginning by this administration and

 

           24              which expired in 2005.

 

           25                      PEL never did anything about the


 

 

                                                                      78

 

 

            1              violations except bury their heads in the

 

            2              sand.  The Courts proved it.  It expired in

 

            3              2006 when the Courts gave the unions raises

 

            4              for six, seven and eight.

 

            5                      A quote from the slimes:  "The state

 

            6              will also evaluate revenue streams to target

 

            7              more ways to generate funds."

 

            8                      Watch out, Scranton taxpayers.

 

            9              Remember when a Mr. Cross from PEL along

 

           10              with the begging bankers were here at the

 

           11              end of 2006 and said that the city was in

 

           12              dire financial straights if we didn't pass

 

           13              the $44 million loan and enact a 25 percent

 

           14              tax increase.  We got the 25 percent tax

 

           15              increase and Ms. Fanucci and Mrs. Gatelli

 

           16              and Mr. McGoff passed it.  Looks like my

 

           17              predictions are going to come true again.

 

           18                      Another quote from the slimes:

 

           19              "When Mr. Doherty ran for mayor the first

 

           20              time, among his core promises was to repair

 

           21              city finances, but the same fundamental

 

           22              problem exists, Scranton spends more money

 

           23              than it takes in.  The structural deficit is

 

           24              around $6 million according to Mr. Renda."

 

           25                      The truth finally be told, that has


 

 

                                                                      79

 

 

            1              been said for years.  BS, reckless BS,

 

            2              borrow, spend.  Woah, bend over taxpayers

 

            3              here comes the next 25 percent tax increase

 

            4              Freddy and the banking beggers wanted for

 

            5              2007.  How else would they plug that

 

            6              deficit?  Add five million to that money we

 

            7              don't get from the tax office and we have an

 

            8              11 million deficit.  Maybe it will be a

 

            9              higher tax increase or millions more in

 

           10              borrowing.  Our grandkids better have good

 

           11              paying jobs to be able to pay back that

 

           12              approximately 300 million in long-term debt.

 

           13                      Another quote from the slimes: "The

 

           14              budget meanwhile swelled by 20.4 million

 

           15              between 2002 and 2009."

 

           16                      That was for 2009, but they didn't

 

           17              say in 2008 the budget swelled by

 

           18              26.4 million and the total of the increases

 

           19              of all of the budgets from 2002 through 2009

 

           20              is 108 million.  108 million more excess

 

           21              over the budgets themselves.

 

           22                      Another quote from the slimes:

 

           23              "Fueled by a debt service that increased

 

           24              158 percent," 158 percent.  And now has a

 

           25              long-term debt of approximately 300 million.


 

 

                                                                      80

 

 

            1                      Another quote from the slimes:

 

            2              "Health insurance costs have spiked

 

            3              47 percent."

 

            4                      It spiked because the mayor fired

 

            5              the health care consultant who saved the

 

            6              city $5 million by straightening out of the

 

            7              system she inherited.  A hundred city

 

            8              employees were forced out of their jobs at

 

            9              the end of 2002 with full benefits and 100

 

           10              people that replaced them are receiving full

 

           11              benefits.

 

           12                      Another quote from the slimes:

 

           13              "Personnel costs, including health care,

 

           14              still make up the majority of expenses, but

 

           15              not as much as they once did.  Spending on

 

           16              salaries is up 6.7 percent."

 

           17                      The slimes forgot to say that the

 

           18              mayor spent 20 million on cumulative raises

 

           19              in new hires for favorites since 2003.

 

           20              That's where the 6.7 percent increase is,

 

           21              not the police or fire.

 

           22                      Another quote from the slimes: "The

 

           23              city is not a business."

 

           24                      The mayor said that.  We said that

 

           25              since he said it wasn't a business


 

 

                                                                      81

 

 

            1              approximately eight years ago.  We said it's

 

            2              a service provider.  Proof?  Police to

 

            3              protect and serve.

 

            4                      By the way, anyone care to guess

 

            5              which firehouses or companies will be closed

 

            6              now that May 19 is past?  I can hear the

 

            7              griping now, "Not my firehouse."

 

            8                      Thank you.

 

            9                      MR. MCGOFF: Mrs. Gatelli?

 

           10                      MS. GATELLI:  I just have a few

 

           11              things.  We did get an answer to my request

 

           12              last week concerning the hiring of a

 

           13              controller in the Single Tax Office.  The

 

           14              answer was that they are working on it with

 

           15              the three taxing bodies concerning the

 

           16              hiring of a controller.  I don't think we

 

           17              got an answer to the solicitor -- the

 

           18              question about having their own solicitor.

 

           19                      MS. GARVEY: No.

 

           20                      MS. GATELLI: The rental registration

 

           21              program, if Kay could please send a letter

 

           22              to the mayor concerning hiring someone to do

 

           23              the registrations I would appreciate that,

 

           24              and also to paint the arrows in the turning

 

           25              lanes on Mulberry and Wyoming.


 

 

                                                                      82

 

 

            1                      Also, I was curious, I read an

 

            2              article and I think it was in the Electric

 

            3              City, they were advertising the KOZ's in

 

            4              Keyser Terrace, and I noticed that in the

 

            5              advertisement they have that the KOZ was in

 

            6              effect until 2014, so I was wondering why

 

            7              that was extended.  I thought they were all

 

            8              up in 2010, so if you could please find out

 

            9              when all of the KOZ's are being terminated.

 

           10                      MS. FANUCCI: Judy, what was the

 

           11              date?

 

           12                      MS. GATELLI: It said 2014.

 

           13                      MS. FANUCCI: Was it a KOEZ?  Because

 

           14              I think were longer.

 

           15                      MS. GATELLI: I'm not sure.  It's for

 

           16              housing.  Keyser Terrace is all housing.

 

           17                      MS. FANUCCI: Yeah, I think it's

 

           18              KOEZ.

 

           19                      MS. GATELLI:  Well, then maybe the

 

           20              ad was wrong, but if you could find that

 

           21              out --

 

           22                      MS. FANUCCI: That still be would

 

           23              four years.

 

           24                      MS. GATELLI: -- I would appreciate

 

           25              it that, and that's all I have.  Thank you.


 

 

                                                                      83

 

 

            1                      MR. MCGOFF: Ms. Fanucci?

 

            2                      MS. FANUCCI: You want me to go?  All

 

            3              right then.  We have three of the loans of

 

            4              the agenda, a lot of people spoke on them

 

            5              tonight.  The only way I could -- you know,

 

            6              I say this over and over again and I am I

 

            7              sure it falls on deaf ears to some, but

 

            8              people are putting 300 and 500 thousand

 

            9              dollars into these businesses.  We are not

 

           10              talking about the fact that these people are

 

           11              not putting anything in.  A lot of money is

 

           12              being spent out of their pocket.  They are

 

           13              looking for a little bit more working

 

           14              capital and creating jobs to boot.  Most of

 

           15              them create many more than they are supposed

 

           16              to create.  You know, some of them are

 

           17              looking at three permanent jobs as required

 

           18              by the state, well, they are coming up with

 

           19              30, four management positions, five

 

           20              actually, five in one, five management

 

           21              positions.

 

           22                      I understand that the impression is

 

           23              that because we are loaning this money out,

 

           24              and it's a loan, that it's sound like these

 

           25              people are getting a free ride.  Well, if


 

 

                                                                      84

 

 

            1              you coming to me with $500,000 and are

 

            2              willing to put it in my city, all of our

 

            3              city, we should be thankful right now in

 

            4              this economy that three businesses are

 

            5              willing to expand and put the money here.  I

 

            6              don't understand how this is a problem or an

 

            7              issue all the time.  I really don't.  I

 

            8              don't get it.

 

            9                      Is it because you have never opened

 

           10              a business and you don't understand?  Is it

 

           11              because you can't -- you don't want other

 

           12              people to come here or give a shot to

 

           13              whatever their dream is or whatever they

 

           14              feel they want to do?  It's very sad to me

 

           15              that it's not something that you can grasp

 

           16              on an daily basis.  People are putting money

 

           17              here.  Does that mean that $85,000 we should

 

           18              say, "Get lost.  Take your $500,000 and go

 

           19              and Jessup or go somewhere else because we

 

           20              don't want you because you want to borrow

 

           21              $85,000 and pay us back and create 30 jobs,

 

           22              that's ridiculous."

 

           23                      I don't get it.  Yes, I will always,

 

           24              always pass job creation and loans and

 

           25              encourage people to open businesses in this


 

 

                                                                      85

 

 

            1              city, just because it might not be a

 

            2              business you personally think you will use,

 

            3              doesn't mean that they aren't other people

 

            4              in the city who want to use it.  So I will

 

            5              be, obviously, very proud to pass this

 

            6              legislation.

 

            7                      As far as the KOZ is concerned, this

 

            8              is another thing, I mean, we didn't create

 

            9              this program.  Scranton didn't decide this

 

           10              was something we wanted to do.  People say

 

           11              what are the benefits?  We get nothing out

 

           12              of the KOZ.  Well, you know what, you get

 

           13              union jobs, first of all, let's just start

 

           14              there, your unions are going to work and

 

           15              building the KOZ.  Not a bad deal

 

           16              considering most unions are looking for work

 

           17              all the time, so should we be happy about

 

           18              that?  I think we should.

 

           19                      The people when they get the payroll

 

           20              want to spend it here.  So, yeah, if you

 

           21              want to send them somewhere else that's

 

           22              where they are spending their money.  1,000

 

           23              people spending I don't care if it's a

 

           24              dollar a day at a gas station it's a dollar

 

           25              a day that we didn't get last time, last


 

 

                                                                      86

 

 

            1              year at this time.

 

            2                      So, yeah, is it a wash for awhile?

 

            3              Probably, unless you are a business owner

 

            4              and you are waiting for that guy to come in

 

            5              and buy a soda or waiting in that restaurant

 

            6              or somebody to come in and by what they are

 

            7              eating.  So, yes, maybe personally you are

 

            8              not benefiting, maybe personally you are

 

            9              not, but that doesn't mean that the

 

           10              residents aren't benefiting.

 

           11                      So you need to look beyond what your

 

           12              personal opinions are and look about other

 

           13              people who have put money into the city and

 

           14              believe in the city and say, well, okay,

 

           15              maybe not for me, but somebody is making

 

           16              something off of it and that's better

 

           17              because most people in the country right now

 

           18              are closing.  Businesses.  You think they

 

           19              are all billionaires right now.  If you look

 

           20              around look at the country, sorry to say,

 

           21              they are hurting.  Everyone is hurting.

 

           22                      So, should we encourage them?  I

 

           23              don't know, I think so.  I would rather have

 

           24              business than not have business.  20 percent

 

           25              when they move here in this city, say they


 

 

                                                                      87

 

 

            1              relocate, they have to expand by 20 percent

 

            2              from what they relocated from, so that's

 

            3              20 percent more employees than they had

 

            4              previously.  They have to maintain that

 

            5              every single year or they don't get KOZ

 

            6              status, so say they do not agree and they do

 

            7              not commit and do not fulfill what they are

 

            8              obligated to do, the KOZ status will be

 

            9              removed, so there are checks and balances.

 

           10                      People say, "What did we get off of

 

           11              the last KOZ's?"

 

           12                      Well, quite frankly, we have people

 

           13              here.  We have houses that weren't here.

 

           14              You have people where there wasn't people

 

           15              before living and paying and buying.  That's

 

           16              a good thing.  Eventually, which is now,

 

           17              2010, we are so close, all that money is

 

           18              coming in in 2010 and if you honestly

 

           19              believe that people are packing up and

 

           20              leaving in mass exodus out of their homes

 

           21              and out of their businesses and out of their

 

           22              lives I don't believe it.  I don't.  They

 

           23              built their lives here just like you did and

 

           24              just like I did, so I don't believe they are

 

           25              going to be leaving.


 

 

                                                                      88

 

 

            1                      Do I think that it's a great idea or

 

            2              a wonderful deal for us to have KOZ's and

 

            3              nonprofits everywhere?  No.  Quite frankly,

 

            4              I'd love for everybody to have to pay their

 

            5              share.  The problem is it's a state program,

 

            6              it's available.  Most the money comes from

 

            7              the state tax that they are saving so you

 

            8              are paying it anyway.  If they go somewhere

 

            9              else out of your city, some other place, you

 

           10              are still paying the tax.  You are still

 

           11              bailing them out.  So do you want to bail

 

           12              them out and put them in your backyard and

 

           13              hope to God that your neighbor is making

 

           14              some money off of them?  I would I think you

 

           15              would.  I certainly do.  I want them here.

 

           16                      And I'll tell you right now if the

 

           17              University of Scranton picked up and told me

 

           18              they were leaving I would fight to keep them

 

           19              here as far as I can.  You don't want people

 

           20              to leave this city because of KOZ because

 

           21              they can go somewhere else.  You don't want

 

           22              people to leave these city with their

 

           23              nonprofits because these people are the

 

           24              people that keep this city going.  It's not

 

           25              just you and I.  It's everyone who is at


 

 

                                                                      89

 

 

            1              these jobs.  So do I love the fact that I

 

            2              have to say another freebie and taxes?  No.

 

            3              But you know what, if I don't say "yes" to

 

            4              this all of those other people did and they

 

            5              gone and I want them here.

 

            6                      As far as me agreeing with the mayor

 

            7              all the time and passing his legislation as

 

            8              a rubber stamper, I agree with him.  I agree

 

            9              with his plan and guess what, a lot of other

 

           10              people do, too.  He just won again.  Just

 

           11              because you don't agree with what I agree

 

           12              with don't say I just do it just to do it

 

           13              because you are wrong.  I only do what I

 

           14              believe in if there is nothing you have

 

           15              learned from me this four years you should

 

           16              know.  I didn't pass legislation for that

 

           17              huge borrowing that he wanted to do.  I

 

           18              didn't do it.  Why?  Because I didn't want

 

           19              to, but I do what I want and I do it for the

 

           20              right reasons, so please don't get up here

 

           21              week after week for the next few months of

 

           22              my -- what's left for me to accomplish what

 

           23              I need to accomplish and talk about the fact

 

           24              that I only do what he wants.  I believe in

 

           25              him just like so many people in this city


 

 

                                                                      90

 

 

            1              do, just like you believe in Mrs. Evans and

 

            2              her plan or her lack thereof, whatever.

 

            3                      You have a choice to believe who you

 

            4              want to and so do I.  I will be voting for

 

            5              any job creation in this city, I will not

 

            6              stop, I have done that and if you look at my

 

            7              record I have never not done that.  Job

 

            8              creation is what is key to getting us to

 

            9              where we need to be to increase the tax

 

           10              base, and that is all I have.  Thank you.

 

           11                      MR. MCGOFF: Mr. Courtright.

 

           12                      MR. COURTRIGHT: Okay, Kay, I need

 

           13              you to send a letter down to Mr. Brazil, you

 

           14              can send one letter for both things.  I

 

           15              asked that they did a crosswalk there at the

 

           16              Trinity Church on the corner of Main Avenue

 

           17              and Division Street because I actually did

 

           18              go by there on Sunday and the signs are out

 

           19              there, and that's great, but the people

 

           20              don't seem to know where to cross, so if

 

           21              they can put something there that would be

 

           22              good, and I'm going to be a pest with this

 

           23              one because I think it's important they

 

           24              still have not done anything with Forest

 

           25              Glenn Drive, you know, the DPW has come up


 

 

                                                                      91

 

 

            1              on more than one occasion and patched it,

 

            2              but it just doesn't last and needs to be

 

            3              graded and paved, just the section.  I'm not

 

            4              asking for the whole road.  I have only seen

 

            5              one person so far go off the road, but there

 

            6              could have been more when I wasn't there.  I

 

            7              think there is going to be a head-on

 

            8              accident, so if you can just send that again

 

            9              and maybe they get sick of me and do

 

           10              something.

 

           11                      People ask me about, I don't even

 

           12              want to bring this up, but maybe I'll give a

 

           13              little bit of an education about can't the

 

           14              police use some other kind of way to stop

 

           15              the people other than, you know, shooting.

 

           16              We do have what they call less than lethal.

 

           17              It's where they shoot a beanbag more or

 

           18              less, but not every officer has it with

 

           19              them.  They have one in every so many cars

 

           20              that they carry with them and you don't

 

           21              always know that you need it.  You know, you

 

           22              go on an incident that could be harmless

 

           23              and, boom, it turns into something terrible.

 

           24              You know, that's usually what happens.

 

           25              Usually the calls that they go on and they


 

 

                                                                      92

 

 

            1              think are going to be bad aren't as bad as

 

            2              they think and the ones they think nothing

 

            3              is going to happen they escalate into

 

            4              something really bad.

 

            5                      I believe we were in the possession

 

            6              of tasers at the time when this incident

 

            7              happened, but I don't believe they were on

 

            8              the road yet, I don't believe the people

 

            9              were trained on them yet.  I do believe we

 

           10              have some people trained on them now, I'm

 

           11              not 100 percent sure about that, so I'll

 

           12              leave it at that for now.

 

           13                      5-F, I have no problem with loaning

 

           14              that company because it's a new startup

 

           15              company the money, my problem is that they

 

           16              are going to a KOZ and they are getting 1

 

           17              percent, so I'm letting them know if you

 

           18              were getting 5 percent like everybody else I

 

           19              would have voted "yes."  I understand that,

 

           20              you know, you are planning on creating

 

           21              several jobs, but they are only required to

 

           22              create three, and there is no guarantee.  I

 

           23              hope they create several, there is no

 

           24              guarantee, but the fact that they are going

 

           25              into a KOZ and not end up paying taxes


 

 

                                                                      93

 

 

            1              coupled with the 1 percent is what is going

 

            2              to make me vote "no."  If they were 5

 

            3              percent like everyone else, they are a

 

            4              startup company, and they are taking

 

            5              advantage of the KOZ, I can't blame them for

 

            6              that.

 

            7                      I can't blame a company, I'll tell

 

            8              you what, you can't blame a company for

 

            9              trying to get the KOZ status.  I mean, in

 

           10              business you try to get the best deal you

 

           11              can get for yourself.  So, you know, I don't

 

           12              blame the Commonwealth for trying to get the

 

           13              status, it's just good business on their

 

           14              part.  It's available.  You know, if I had a

 

           15              business like that I would probably be going

 

           16              after it, too, but I'm bothered by the fact

 

           17              that they're going to be a KOZ plus they are

 

           18              going to get the 1 percent.  If by some

 

           19              chance if they would change it to 5 percent

 

           20              I would vote "yes".  And that's all I have.

 

           21                      MR. MCGOFF: Thank you.  First, in

 

           22              response to someone speakers about the land

 

           23              or the building at Nay Aug that Lackawanna

 

           24              College is going to be using, it is my

 

           25              understanding that that building is being


 

 

                                                                      94

 

 

            1              leased or the intent is to lease it to

 

            2              Lackawanna not to give it to them as their

 

            3              property.  I'm told that is the plan.  I

 

            4              don't know that there is any specific lease

 

            5              agreement yet in place, but I do know that

 

            6              it is -- that building is not just being

 

            7              given to Lackawanna College.  It will remain

 

            8              part of Nay Aug Park and whatever title goes

 

            9              with it.

 

           10                      Secondly, in response to some

 

           11              comments about the Single Tax Office and not

 

           12              getting answers, I believe the council has

 

           13              made -- has exhausted itself in attempts to

 

           14              get information from the Single Tax Office.

 

           15              We have been to the Courts, we have been to

 

           16              the solicitor, we have talked to the tax

 

           17              collector, we have tried everything to get a

 

           18              response.  We have been as frustrated as

 

           19              anyone else in our attempts to get answers.

 

           20                      And in terms of asking Mr. McDowell,

 

           21              as Attorney Minora said, we have, you know,

 

           22              we have gone to Court in an attempt to get

 

           23              Mr. McDowell before council and it is still

 

           24              in the courts.  We can't control what other

 

           25              people do.  I would not -- we don't have


 

 

                                                                      95

 

 

            1              control over what the District Attorney's

 

            2              Office does or any other police agency or

 

            3              policing agency.  All we can do is ask the

 

            4              same questions that maybe you are asking and

 

            5              hopefully get responses.  When we get

 

            6              responses, we have attempted to pass them

 

            7              along to you.  That may be frustrating, but

 

            8              it's just as frustrating for us, you know,

 

            9              sitting here.

 

           10                      And as far as Mr. Burke coming to

 

           11              the caucus and not coming into council

 

           12              chambers, he was never asked to come into

 

           13              council chambers.  He was asked by me to

 

           14              come to a caucus and to meet with council in

 

           15              the office.  He never -- he never refused to

 

           16              come into council chambers.  I think that's

 

           17              a misrepresentation what Mr. Burke did.  On

 

           18              a number of occasions he has indicated he

 

           19              would be more than willing to talk to

 

           20              members of council about any of the

 

           21              programs.

 

           22                      And, lastly, as far as the -- and

 

           23              this may be premature, but we are working

 

           24              towards it, the KOZ extensions I have a

 

           25              number of things to say on it.  As Mrs.


 

 

                                                                      96

 

 

            1              Fanucci indicated, this is not a program

 

            2              that is isolated to the City of Scranton.

 

            3              KOZ's are -- it's a state program and these

 

            4              extensions are being granted throughout the

 

            5              state.  This is not something that we are

 

            6              being asked to do isolated in the City of

 

            7              Scranton.  KOZ extensions are being granted

 

            8              throughout the state to any -- I shouldn't

 

            9              say to any, but to worthy projects and they

 

           10              are being granted by the state, not by the

 

           11              municipalities.

 

           12                      The county commissioners are in

 

           13              agreement, have offered their support to

 

           14              this extension program.  We have a letter

 

           15              from the county commissioners in which they

 

           16              have stated their support for the extensions

 

           17              and have already I believe in either Jessup

 

           18              or Archbald have -- that application has

 

           19              already been approved.

 

           20                      I believe that these extensions, I

 

           21              don't want to say may be necessary, in to

 

           22              order to keep Scranton competitive with

 

           23              other areas, businesses, and I am told this

 

           24              by any number of people, one of the first

 

           25              questions that business owners ask when they


 

 

                                                                      97

 

 

            1              are looking to move into an area or to

 

            2              relocate or to start a new business are

 

            3              there KOZ's available and if they are not

 

            4              available in Scranton then they will go

 

            5              somewhere else to find them, be it Jessup,

 

            6              Archbald, Hazelton or some other part of the

 

            7              state.  I think in order for Scranton to be

 

            8              competitive in attracting jobs and in

 

            9              attracting businesses the KOZ extensions are

 

           10              something that we need to -- we need to

 

           11              approve.

 

           12                      Also, Mount Pleasant, the one we are

 

           13              looking at tonight, has produced little or

 

           14              no income to the city for a period of time.

 

           15              To say that we are losing anything is I

 

           16              believe ludicrous.  By granting an

 

           17              extension, by attracting businesses we are

 

           18              --  we are bringing the potential of jobs

 

           19              and income to this city that did not exist

 

           20              before and will not exist unless these KOZ's

 

           21              are available, and we seem to talk about,

 

           22              you know, what are we going to do about

 

           23              long-term debt.  Well, if we are looking to

 

           24              deal with long-term debt then you have to

 

           25              look at long-term as far as where we can get


 

 

                                                                      98

 

 

            1              revenue, and you will start to realize the

 

            2              benefits of the first KOZ program very soon,

 

            3              and in the long-term if we attract

 

            4              businesses, as Mrs. Fanucci did say,

 

            5              businesses that come and move into these

 

            6              areas they are not going to just get up and

 

            7              move because the KOZ has terminated.

 

            8              Successful businesses are going to stay and

 

            9              they are going to stay in the location where

 

           10              they are been successful, and so if we are

 

           11              looking for long-term benefit there you have

 

           12              it.  If we are looking for ways of paying

 

           13              off long-term debt, there you have it.

 

           14              Create long-term income.  Create something

 

           15              that's going to exist well into the future

 

           16              and not look in the sort term.

 

           17                      And also, if we are looking to

 

           18              reduce taxes then I think there are two

 

           19              different ways to reduce taxes:  One, create

 

           20              more jobs, create more income, so that we

 

           21              are not reliant on property taxes.  And the

 

           22              second thing is to increase -- increase the

 

           23              tax base, and that's what KOZ's do.  They

 

           24              increase the tax base over a long-term.

 

           25                        Properties that are coming out of


 

 

                                                                      99

 

 

            1              the KOZ's in the near future, those are

 

            2              going to be taxable into the future.  It's

 

            3              not just the homes that were built in Keyser

 

            4              Terrace, in Tripp Park and whatever other

 

            5              KOZ, you know, properties there are.  Those

 

            6              are homes that are going to stay there.

 

            7              They are not going to disappear when the

 

            8              KOZ's terminate.  People will pay taxes on

 

            9              those.  People are not going to get up and

 

           10              move out of them, even if they do move out

 

           11              of them, somebody will still own them,

 

           12              somebody will still need to pay taxes on

 

           13              them.  They are not going to disappear, and

 

           14              I think we are looking into very often we

 

           15              are just too sort term in what we are

 

           16              looking at when we talk about the KOZ's.

 

           17                      And I know I'm kind of rambling

 

           18              around about some things, it's just ideas

 

           19              that came to me in dealing with this.  The

 

           20              property at Mt. Pleasant has been a blight

 

           21              on this city for a number of years and now

 

           22              it's going to be the potential of five

 

           23              viable businesses.  If nothing else, getting

 

           24              rid of that culm dump that existed there and

 

           25              improving that property, that alone would


 

 

                                                                     100

 

 

            1              for me justify extending the KOZ's, and I

 

            2              think it has to be understood that we are

 

            3              only offering support.  We are passing -- we

 

            4              are voting on a resolution that would offer

 

            5              support to the application that is being

 

            6              made.  We are not deciding to extend these

 

            7              KOZ's.  All we are saying is that we give

 

            8              our support to people that are willing to

 

            9              spend money and willing to develop this land

 

           10              in the future.

 

           11                      Also, it does not deal with every

 

           12              KOZ.  The state law for the extensions of

 

           13              KOZ's deals only with unoccupied,

 

           14              undeveloped KOZ properties.  It is not an

 

           15              extension of every KOZ property in the

 

           16              state, it is only on undeveloped properties.

 

           17              And so again, the properties that

 

           18              originally were developed under the original

 

           19              KOZ program they are not affected.  They are

 

           20              not going to be extended.  They will start

 

           21              to pay taxes in the year 2010, and so again,

 

           22              I think it's it needs to be understood what

 

           23              it is that we are dealing with here.  It's

 

           24              the only extension on undeveloped KOZ

 

           25              properties.


 

 

                                                                     101

 

 

            1                      And I think if you went to some

 

            2              people who built homes, started businesses,

 

            3              under the original KOZ program I think that

 

            4              they would tell you that it was well worth

 

            5              it.  How many municipal employees are living

 

            6              in KOZ properties and would be probably, you

 

            7              know, say, "Great idea," you know, "We

 

            8              benefited, other people should benefit."

 

            9                      I think that the extensions that are

 

           10              being asked for are worth us considering it.

 

           11              I think they are worth our support.  It will

 

           12              benefit the city initially by creating jobs,

 

           13              by bringing more people to the area, union

 

           14              jobs as Mrs. Fanucci said, and to the

 

           15              long -- into the future increase the tax

 

           16              base, increase the number of jobs and a lot

 

           17              allows to deal with some economic problems

 

           18              that may exist into the long-term, into the

 

           19              future.  I don't think that I can stress

 

           20              that enough.  We are looking for how we can

 

           21              deal with things in the future.  Well, I

 

           22              think here is a program that allows us to do

 

           23              that, and I think that we will start to see

 

           24              the benefits of the original program and I

 

           25              think it's worth our support to help us into


 

 

                                                                     102

 

 

            1              the future find dealing with KOZ extensions,

 

            2              and that is all I have.

 

            3                      MS. GARVEY: 5-B. FOR INTRODUCTION -

 

            4              A RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND

 

            5              OTHER APPROPRIATE CITY OFFICIALS TO EXECUTE

 

            6              AND ENTER INTO ON BEHALF OF THE CITY OF

 

            7              SCRANTON AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT WITH

 

            8              THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA ACTING

 

            9              THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

 

           10              ("PENNDOT") TO AUTHORIZE ELECTRONIC ACCESS

 

           11              TO PENNDOT SYSTEMS PARTICULARLY TO THE

 

           12              dotGRANTS ON-LINE REPORTING SYSTEM FOR THE

 

           13              PURPOSES OF ENTERING DATA, EXCHANGING

 

           14              INFORMATION AND FILING REQUIRED LIQUID FUELS

 

           15              FORMS ANNUALLY INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO

 

           16              THE MS-965, MS-329 AND MS-999 FORMS AND TO

 

           17              DESIGNATE THE CITY'S BUSINESS ADMINISTRATOR,

 

           18              DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS, CITY ENGINEER,

 

           19              FINANCE MANAGER AND SENIOR ACCOUNTANT AS

 

           20              AUTHORIZED EMPLOYEES TO ACCESS THE SYSTEM.

 

           21                      MR. MCGOFF:  At this time I'll

 

           22              entertain a motion that Item 5-B be

 

           23              introduced into it's proper committee.

 

           24                      MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

 

           25                      MS. FANUCCI:  Second.


 

 

                                                                     103

 

 

            1                      MR. MCGOFF:  On the question?  All

 

            2              in favor signify by saying aye.

 

            3                      MS. FANUCCI:  Aye.

 

            4                      MS. GATELLI:  Aye.

 

            5                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Aye.

 

            6                      MR. MCGOFF:  Aye.  Opposed?  The

 

            7              ayes have it and so moved.

 

            8                      MS. GARVEY: 5-C.  FOR INTRODUCTION -

 

            9              A RESOLUTION - ACCEPTING OWNERSHIP AND

 

           10              MAINTENANCE RESPONSIBILITY FOR TRAFFIC

 

           11              SIGNAL DEVICE AT THE INTERSECTION OF KEYSER

 

           12              AVENUE (S.R. 3011) AND DALTON STREET (S.R.

 

           13              3014) AND DIVISION STREET AND ACCEPTING

 

           14              TRAFFIC SIGNAL MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT NO.

 

           15              04S005 BETWEEN THE COMMONWEALTH OF

 

           16              PENNSYLVANIA, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

 

           17              (COMMONWEALTH) AND THE CITY OF SCRANTON

 

           18              (SUBDIVISION) THAT PERTAINS THERETO AS PART

 

           19              OF THE KEYSER AVENUE PROJECT.

 

           20                      MR. MCGOFF:  At this time I'll

 

           21              entertain a motion that Item 5-C be

 

           22              introduced into it's proper committee.

 

           23                      MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

 

           24                      MS. FANUCCI:  Second.

 

           25                      MR. MCGOFF:  On the question?  All


 

 

                                                                     104

 

 

            1              in favor signify by saying aye.

 

            2                      MS. FANUCCI:  Aye.

 

            3                      MS. GATELLI:  Aye.

 

            4                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Aye.

 

            5                      MR. MCGOFF:  Aye.  Opposed?  The

 

            6              ayes have it and so moved.

 

            7                      MS. GARVEY: 5-D. FOR INTRODUCTION -

 

            8              A RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND

 

            9              OTHER APPROPRIATE CITY OFFICIALS FOR THE

 

           10              CITY OF SCRANTON TO ENTER INTO A LOAN

 

           11              AGREEMENT AND MAKE A LOAN FROM THE

 

           12              COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL REVOLVING LOAN

 

           13              PROGRAM, PROJECT NO. 150.23 IN AN AMOUNT NOT

 

           14              TO EXCEED $50,000.00 TO GLEASON CUSTOM

 

           15              KITCHENS INC. TO ASSIST AN ELIGIBLE PROJECT.

 

           16                      MR. MCGOFF:  At this time I'll

 

           17              entertain a motion that Item 5-D be

 

           18              introduced into it's proper committee.

 

           19                      MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

 

           20                      MS. FANUCCI:  Second.

 

           21                      MR. MCGOFF:  On the question?  All

 

           22              those in favor signify by saying aye.

 

           23                      MS. FANUCCI:  Aye.

 

           24                      MS. GATELLI:  Aye.

 

           25                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Aye.


 

 

                                                                     105

 

 

            1                      MR. MCGOFF:  Aye.  Opposed?  The

 

            2              ayes have it and so moved.

 

            3                      MS. GARVEY: 5-E. FOR INTRODUCTION -

 

            4              A RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND

 

            5              OTHER APPROPRIATE CITY OFFICIALS FOR THE

 

            6              CITY OF SCRANTON TO ENTER INTO A LOAN

 

            7              AGREEMENT AND MAKE A LOAN FROM THE COMMUNITY

 

            8              DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT PROGRAM, PROJECT NO.

 

            9              150.22 IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $35,000.00

 

           10              TO BACKYARD ALE HOUSE, LLC TO ASSIST AN

 

           11              ELIGIBLE PROJECT.

 

           12                      MR. MCGOFF:  At this time I'll

 

           13              entertain a motion that Item 5-E be

 

           14              introduced into it's proper committee.

 

           15                      MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

 

           16                      MS. FANUCCI:  Second.

 

           17                      MR. MCGOFF:  On the question?  All

 

           18              in favor signify by saying aye.

 

           19                      MS. FANUCCI:  Aye.

 

           20                      MS. GATELLI:  Aye.

 

           21                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Aye.

 

           22                      MR. MCGOFF:  Aye.  Opposed?  The

 

           23              ayes have it and so moved.

 

           24                      MS. GARVEY: 5-F. FOR INTRODUCTION -

 

           25              A RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND


 

 

                                                                     106

 

 

            1              OTHER APPROPRIATE CITY OFFICIALS TO EXECUTE

 

            2              AND ENTER INTO A LOAN AGREEMENT IN THE

 

            3              AMOUNT OF $85,000.00 BY AND BETWEEN THE CITY

 

            4              OF SCRANTON AND LOCAL FOCAL, INC., A

 

            5              PENNSYLVANIA CORPORATION, UNDER THE

 

            6              ENTERPRISE ZONE REVOLVING LOAN FUND PROGRAM.

 

            7                      MR. MCGOFF:  At this time I'll

 

            8              entertain a motion that Item 5-F be

 

            9              introduced into it's proper committee.

 

           10                      MS. FANUCCI: So moved.

 

           11                      MR. MCGOFF:  Second.  On the

 

           12              question?

 

           13                      MR. COURTRIGHT: On the question,

 

           14              I'll just repeat what I said earlier, what's

 

           15              making me vote in the negative is that the

 

           16              fact they are going into a KOZ and plus only

 

           17              paying the 1 percent.  If they were paying

 

           18              the 5 percent the people that other people

 

           19              were paying I would be willing to vote

 

           20              "yes", but I'm going to be voting "no" on

 

           21              this.

 

           22                      MS. GATELLI: I would also like to

 

           23              make a motion to table this if this is the

 

           24              appropriate time to see if we can't get them

 

           25              to the 5 percent.  I don't know if that's


 

 

                                                                     107

 

 

            1              possible.

 

            2                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Could we -- do we

 

            3              have to vote first, Mr. Minora, or --

 

            4                      MR. MCGOFF: You can make a motion to

 

            5              table at any time.

 

            6                      MS. GATELLI: I make a motion to

 

            7              table this until we find out if we can

 

            8              change the rate of the loan.

 

            9                      MR. COURTRIGHT: I'll second that.

 

           10                      MR. MCGOFF: On the question to

 

           11              table?  All in favor signify by saying aye.

 

           12                      MS. FANUCCI:  Aye.

 

           13                      MS. GATELLI:  Aye.

 

           14                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Aye.

 

           15                      MR. MCGOFF:  Opposed?  No. The ayes

 

           16              have it and so moved.

 

           17                      MS. GARVEY: 5-G.  FOR INTRODUCTION -

 

           18              A RESOLUTION - A RESOLUTION EXTENDING THE

 

           19              TERM OF REAL PROPERTY, EARNED INCOME TAX,

 

           20              NET PROFITS, MERCANTILE TAX, AND BUSINESS

 

           21              PRIVILEGE TAXES WITHIN A SPECIFIC GEOGRAPHIC

 

           22              AREA MORE COMMONLY KNOWN AS MOUNT PLEASANT

 

           23              CORPORATE CENTER, SCRANTON, PENNSYLVANIA,

 

           24              WHICH IS A PORTION OF THE PROPERTY CONVEYED

 

           25              TO SCRANTON LACKAWANNA INDUSTRIAL BUILDING


 

 

                                                                     108

 

 

            1              COMPANY (SLIBCO) BY DEED DATED MARCH 5,

 

            2              2008, RECORDED IN THE LACKAWANNA COUNTY

 

            3              RECORDER OF DEEDS OFFICE AS REFERENCE NO.

 

            4              2008-05077, CONSISTING OF LOTS 2,3,4 AND 5

 

            5              AS SHOWN ON PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION PLANS

 

            6              RECORDED ON SEPTEMBER 30, 2008 IN MAP BOOK

 

            7              6A, PAGE 6265, DESIGNATED AS A KEYSTONE

 

            8              OPPORTUNITY ZONE IN ORDER TO FOSTER ECONOMIC

 

            9              OPPORTUNITIES, STIMULATE INDUSTRIAL,

 

           10              COMMERCIAL, AND RESIDENTIAL IMPROVEMENTS AND

 

           11              PREVENT PHYSICAL AND INFRASTRUCTURE

 

           12              DETERIORATION WITHIN THE ABOVE DESCRIBED

 

           13              AREA OF THE CITY OF SCRANTON, COMMONWEALTH

 

           14              OF PENNSYLVANIA, UPON CERTAIN TERMS AND

 

           15              CONDITIONS.

 

           16                      MR. MCGOFF:  At this time I'll

 

           17              entertain a motion that Item 5-G be

 

           18              introduced into it's proper committee.

 

           19                      MS. FANUCCI: So moved.

 

           20                      MR. MCGOFF:  I'll second.  On the

 

           21              question?

 

           22                      MR. COURTRIGHT: On the question,

 

           23              again, I know a lot of people say we have

 

           24              our minds made up always before this comes

 

           25              up, I've got mixed emotions when it comes to


 

 

                                                                     109

 

 

            1              KOZ's, I really do.  Yes, we will be seeing

 

            2              -- the city will receive revenue in the near

 

            3              future for some of the KOZ's, and that's a

 

            4              great thing and we sorely need the money.  I

 

            5              think I spoke last week, when we campaign

 

            6              you see the city like in a different light

 

            7              than when your average every day life goes

 

            8              on, and you talk to a lot more people and we

 

            9              out there asking them to vote for us, so we

 

           10              listen a little bit better during election

 

           11              time I think, you know?

 

           12                      But I spoke to one individual that

 

           13              really made me think about that KOZ.  He

 

           14              told me, "I'm moving as soon as this KOZ

 

           15              status is gone, I'm gone.  I'm out of here."

 

           16                      He is disgusted with the

 

           17              development, the whole nine yards, and that

 

           18              bothered me and disappointed me, but I also

 

           19              thought there is a home there.  He is not

 

           20              going to move without selling the home, so

 

           21              when he sells the home we are going to get

 

           22              transfer tax, right, and then whoever buys

 

           23              it is going to pay taxes from the KOZ house,

 

           24              so I believe there is good and there is bad

 

           25              on both ends, so I'm really torn.  I truly


 

 

                                                                     110

 

 

            1              many.  I don't know when the final vote

 

            2              comes down how I'm going to vote on this.

 

            3                      I asked for some information and I

 

            4              got that and I'm assuming I got this

 

            5              afternoon, Kay, because it wasn't here when

 

            6              I was here this morning and to answer some

 

            7              of the questions, I'm going to be honest

 

            8              with you, I think it was a few months back

 

            9              when Mr. Burke did come in here and speak to

 

           10              us and I don't remember some of the things

 

           11              we talked about.  I don't remember some of

 

           12              the answers to the questions, so I wanted to

 

           13              bring myself up to speed on that and I do

 

           14              have another question that I wanted to look

 

           15              into tomorrow.

 

           16                      Potentially there's a company coming

 

           17              that, you know, and I don't know the name of

 

           18              the company anyway, but I'm believe they are

 

           19              going to tell us and ask us to keep it

 

           20              confidential for reasons they have, and the

 

           21              one company makes me think because they are

 

           22              supposed to bring 100 jobs and they are

 

           23              supposed to be very good paying jobs and I

 

           24              would like to see that happen here.  I don't

 

           25              have the information from the first time


 

 

                                                                     111

 

 

            1              this went around on what the jobs were and

 

            2              what the pay was, and I do remember they

 

            3              gave it to me, they weren't specific enough

 

            4              for me, so I'm going to ask that, again, I

 

            5              don't know which way I will vote if this

 

            6              thing passes tonight.  I'm voting in the

 

            7              negative tonight, I was hoping that we would

 

            8              have tabled it to look at it a little bit

 

            9              more.  I know we are under time constraints,

 

           10              I believe by the end of the month they have

 

           11              to have their application in, but I'm going

 

           12              to vote "no" this evening, but with mixed

 

           13              emotions, I'm just trying to be as honest as

 

           14              possible, I have mixed emotions on it.

 

           15              That's all I have.

 

           16                      MR. MCGOFF: Anyone else?

 

           17                      MS. GATELLI: Well, I'm just going to

 

           18              say that I'm going to vote to introduce it

 

           19              tonight, but that doesn't necessarily mean

 

           20              I'm going to vote for it when it comes to

 

           21              the final vote.  I do believe in KOZ zones.

 

           22              They have always had a tax incentive program

 

           23              in the City of Scranton, years ago it was

 

           24              called LERTA and they had a ten-year lease.

 

           25              There were incentives all over the country


 

 

                                                                     112

 

 

            1              for businesses.  Personally, I do not

 

            2              believe in KOZ for residential areas.  If

 

            3              that came before me I would absolutely vote

 

            4              "no".  They are not for residential areas,

 

            5              but I do think they are beneficial in

 

            6              commercial and job creation areas.

 

            7                      I know when I look at the resolution

 

            8              that was passed by the county they had no

 

            9              problem at all.  They don't even specify a

 

           10              particular project as our ordinance does.

 

           11              Our ordinance is only for Mount Pleasant as

 

           12              far as I'm understanding.  The county

 

           13              approved it for any unoccupied, undeveloped

 

           14              land in the whole county.  I believe that

 

           15              they studied it, and I worked many years you

 

           16              know, with Mike Washo, and I don't think

 

           17              that Mike would have voted for something

 

           18              that would not be good for the county.  I

 

           19              will be talking to Mr. Washo concerning this

 

           20              matter.  I believe I did ask some time ago

 

           21              for someone to call the school district and

 

           22              see what their feelings were in regards to

 

           23              this issue.  If we have a deadline I'm sure

 

           24              they have the same deadline and I don't see

 

           25              it being discussed at the school district at


 

 

                                                                     113

 

 

            1              all, and they will be the biggest loser of

 

            2              tax revenue for the property tax, so I don't

 

            3              understand why I'm going to say again, that

 

            4              it's always incumbent upon us to be the ones

 

            5              who make all of these decisions when others

 

            6              should be in the boat with us.  I think we

 

            7              should have all met together.  There should

 

            8              be intergovernmental relations, and there

 

            9              aren't and there never is and that's a

 

           10              really sad thing.

 

           11                      So I would ask that we possibly even

 

           12              meet next week in caucus with one of the

 

           13              commissioners and a school board solicitor

 

           14              or president and we discuss the matter

 

           15              together intelligently and see how we all

 

           16              feel about it.

 

           17                      MR. MCGOFF: Can I interject just a

 

           18              second, please?

 

           19                      MS. GATELLI:  Yes.

 

           20                      MR. MCGOFF: I perhaps a month or so

 

           21              ago I did meet with the county commissioners

 

           22              to discuss this when it was originally

 

           23              proposed to us by Mr. Burke and they were at

 

           24              that time making an attempt to contact the

 

           25              school board or a member -- someone from the


 

 

                                                                     114

 

 

            1              school district to do just what you

 

            2              suggested, to sit down and discuss it as one

 

            3              and to make a decision on what we might want

 

            4              to do and nothing ever came of that.  I

 

            5              don't know what happened to the -- actually

 

            6              they were trying to -- they made the phone

 

            7              call when I was with them and I got no --

 

            8              didn't get a response from the person that

 

            9              they contacted.

 

           10                      Yesterday I spoke with one of the

 

           11              commissioners as well regarding this matter,

 

           12              and again, that was suggested and the

 

           13              commissioners were going to attempt to

 

           14              contact the school board and see if they

 

           15              could arrange or at least get an indication

 

           16              of what the school board was thinking on

 

           17              this matter.  Perhaps rather than a caucus,

 

           18              I will attempt to contact the commissioners

 

           19              tomorrow and see if they had any success in

 

           20              contacting the school board.  I would also

 

           21              attempt to contact someone at the school

 

           22              district and perhaps before next week and as

 

           23              soon as possible sit down with those so that

 

           24              we have a -- maybe can get a consensus on

 

           25              what people think.


 

 

                                                                     115

 

 

            1                      MR. COURTRIGHT: Mr. McGoff, I had

 

            2              one more thing.

 

            3                      MR. MCGOFF: Sure.  It's your time,

 

            4              I'm sorry.

 

            5                      MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm sorry.  My

 

            6              understanding is that if all three of us

 

            7              don't go along with it then it fails.  I

 

            8              think that's correct, do you know for sure?

 

            9                      MS. GATELLI: And we did check that

 

           10              and that's true.  We all have to agree.  So,

 

           11              can't we all meet?

 

           12                      MR. COURTRIGHT: We need to met.

 

           13                      MS. GATELLI: We all met on the tax

 

           14              office issue.  All the bodies were at the

 

           15              county commissioner's office.  We were all

 

           16              represented at that meeting, so I don't

 

           17              understand why we can't have a meeting about

 

           18              this.

 

           19                      MR. COURTRIGHT: I think we have to.

 

           20                      MS. GATELLI: I think we do, too.

 

           21                      MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't think there

 

           22              is any way that we could -- our vote is not

 

           23              going to matter one way or the other if we

 

           24              don't meet and decide.

 

           25                      MS. FANUCCI:  Exactly.


 

 

                                                                     116

 

 

            1                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  So I think we need

 

            2              to and I would hope that, it appears it is

 

            3              going to go through 3 to 1 tonight, I would

 

            4              vote that we don't vote on it next week

 

            5              unless we know the school district is going

 

            6              to do next week.

 

            7                      MS. GATELLI: Well, I think we can

 

            8              still table it next week.

 

            9                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Yeah.  Absolutely.

 

           10                      MS. GATELLI: This is just

 

           11              introduction, we can always table it again.

 

           12                      MS. FANUCCI: The problem is they are

 

           13              under time constraints.

 

           14                      MS. GATELLI: Well, the time

 

           15              constraints are up the street, too.

 

           16                      MS. FANUCCI:  Right, but they only

 

           17              have to pass it once.

 

           18                      MS. GATELLI: It's not just for us.

 

           19                      MS. FANUCCI: They could pass it

 

           20              once.

 

           21                      MS. GATELLI:  We can suspend the

 

           22              rules and read it.  There is always an

 

           23              answer.  We can suspend the rules and do it

 

           24              in one night.

 

           25                      MR. COURTRIGHT: The problem is on


 

 

                                                                     117

 

 

            1              these issues we need to get together

 

            2              beforehand, not when it's in front of us.

 

            3                      MS. GATELLI:  Yeah, but I did ask.

 

            4                      MR. COURTRIGHT: I know you tried.

 

            5              Why that didn't happen --

 

            6                      MS. GATELLI: Well, I think it was

 

            7              because it was election time.  The election

 

            8              is over so --

 

            9                      MR. MCGOFF: I will attempt to setup

 

           10              some type of meeting with the other two

 

           11              bodies.  Okay.  Anyone else?

 

           12                      MS. GATELLI: No, that's all I have.

 

           13                      MR. MCGOFF:  All those in favor of

 

           14              introduction signify by saying aye.

 

           15                      MS. FANUCCI:  Aye.

 

           16                      MS. GATELLI:  Aye.

 

           17                      MR. MCGOFF:  Aye.  Opposed?

 

           18                      MR. COURTRIGHT: No.

 

           19                      MR. MCGOFF: The ayes have it and so

 

           20              moved.

 

           21                      MS. GARVEY:  Sixth order we have a

 

           22              motion.

 

           23                      MR. MCGOFF: 6-A we need a motion

 

           24              to amend 6-A.  I just want to make sure I

 

           25              make the proper motion.


 

 

                                                                     118

 

 

            1                      MR. MINORA:  It's a motion to amend

 

            2              the title and the body of the resolution.

 

            3              The ordinance to remove the words "general

 

            4              fund."

 

            5                      MR. MCGOFF: Just for information

 

            6              sake, the words "general funds" were

 

            7              included in the legislation, they should not

 

            8              have been.  The motion is going to be simply

 

            9              to remove the words "general fund," from the

 

           10              legislation, so at this point in time I

 

           11              would like to make a motion to amend Item

 

           12              6-A by removing the words "general fund"

 

           13              from the legislation.

 

           14                      MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.

 

           15                      MR. MCGOFF: On the question.  All

 

           16              those in favor signify by saying aye.

 

           17                      MS. FANUCCI:  Aye.

 

           18                      MS. GATELLI:  Aye.

 

           19                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Aye.

 

           20                      MR. MCGOFF:  Aye.  Opposed?  The

 

           21              ayes have it and so moved.

 

           22                      MS. GARVEY: 6-A.  READING BY TITLE -

 

           23              FILE OF COUNCIL NO. 68, 2009 - AN ORDINANCE

 

           24              - AS AMENDED - TRANSFERRING THE FUNDS FROM

 

           25              FUND 03 CITY LIQUID FUEL ACCOUNTS WHICH


 

 

                                                                     119

 

 

            1              FUNDS AND ACCOUNTS ARE NO LONGER NEEDED FOR

 

            2              THE CONDUCT OF CITY BUSINESS, AND ABOLISHING

 

            3              AND CLOSING SAID ACCOUNTS AND TRANSFERRING

 

            4              THE FUNDS REMAINING IN THESE ACCOUNTS TO THE

 

            5              CASH LIQUID FUELS INVEST ACCOUNT.

 

            6                      MR. MCGOFF: You have heard reading

 

            7              by title of Item 6-A, what is your pleasure.

 

            8                      MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item 6-A

 

            9              pass reading by title.

 

           10                      MS. FANUCCI: Second.

 

           11                      MR. MCGOFF:  On the question?  All

 

           12              those in favor signify by saying aye.

 

           13                      MS. FANUCCI:  Aye.

 

           14                      MS. GATELLI:  Aye.

 

           15                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Aye.

 

           16                      MR. MCGOFF:  Aye.  Opposed?  The

 

           17              ayes have it and so moved.

 

           18                      MS. GARVEY: SEVENTH ORDER.  7-A. FOR

 

           19              CONSIDERATION BY THE COMMITTEE ON COMMUNITY

 

           20              DEVELOPMENT - FOR ADOPTION - FILE OF COUNCIL

 

           21              NO. 67, 2009 - AMENDING FILE OF COUNCIL NO.

 

           22              123, 2007, ENTITLED, "AN ORDINANCE

 

           23              AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND OTHER APPROPRIATE

 

           24              OFFICIALS OF THE CITY OF SCRANTON TO TAKE

 

           25              ALL NECESSARY ACTIONS TO IMPLEMENT THE


 

 

                                                                     120

 

 

            1              CONSOLIDATED SUBMISSION FOR COMMUNITY

 

            2              PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS (AS

 

            3              AMENDED) TO BE FUNDED UNDER THE COMMUNITY

 

            4              DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT (CDBG) PROGRAM, HOME

 

            5              INVESTMENT PARTNERSHIP (HOME) PROGRAM AND

 

            6              EMERGENCY SHELTER GRANT (ESG) PROGRAM", BY

 

            7              AMENDING THE CONSOLIDATED PLAN AND THE 2008

 

            8              ACTION PLAN TO INCLUDE NEW FUNDING UNDER

 

            9              TITLE XII OF THE FEDERAL AMERICAN RECOVERY

 

           10              AND REINVESTMENT ACT OF 2009 ("RECOVERY

 

           11              ACT") FOR THE HOMELESS PREVENTION AND RAPID

 

           12              RE-HOUSING PROGRAM (HPRP) AND THE COMMUNITY

 

           13              DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT- RECOVERY (CDBG-R)

 

           14              THAT RESULTED FROM THE RECOVERY ACT.

 

           15                      MR. MCGOFF:  What is the

 

           16              recommendation of the Chairperson for the

 

           17              Committee on Community Development?

 

           18                      MS. FANUCCI: As Chairperson for the

 

           19              Committee on Community Development, I

 

           20              recommend final passage of Item 7-A.

 

           21                      MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.

 

           22                      MR. MCGOFF:  On the question?  Roll

 

           23              call, please?

 

           24                      MR. COOLICAN:  Mrs. Evans.  Mrs.

 

           25              Gatelli.


 

 

                                                                     121

 

 

            1                      MS. GATELLI.  Yes.

 

            2                      MR. COOLICAN:  Ms. Fanucci.

 

            3                      MS. FANUCCI:  Yes.

 

            4                      MR. COOLICAN:  Mr. Courtright.

 

            5                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Yes.

 

            6                      MR. COOLICAN:  Mr. McGoff.

 

            7                      MR. MCGOFF:  Yes.  I hereby declare

 

            8              Item 7-A legally and lawfully adopted.

 

            9                      MS. GARVEY: 7-B. FOR CONSIDERATION

 

           10              BY THE COMMITTEE ON COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT

 

           11              FOR ADOPTION - RESOLUTION NO. 123, 2009 -

 

           12              AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND OTHER APPROPRIATE

 

           13              CITY OFFICIALS FOR THE CITY OF SCRANTON TO

 

           14              ENTER INTO A LOAN AGREEMENT AND MAKE A LOAN

 

           15              FROM THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ADMINISTRATION

 

           16              LOAN PROGRAM, PROJECT NO. 009.500.4 IN AN

 

           17              AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $25,000.00 TO D & MS,

 

           18              LLC D/B/A CITY CAFÉ TO ASSIST AN ELIGIBLE

 

           19              PROJECT.

 

           20                      MR. MCGOFF:  What is the

 

           21              recommendation of the Chairperson for the

 

           22              Committee on Community Development?

 

           23                      MS. FANUCCI: As Chairperson for the

 

           24              Committee on Community Development, I

 

           25              recommend final passage of Item 7-B.


 

 

                                                                     122

 

 

            1                      MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.

 

            2                      MR. MCGOFF:  On the question?  Roll

 

            3              call, please?

 

            4                      MR. COOLICAN:  Mrs. Evans. Mrs.

 

            5              Gatelli.

 

            6                      MS. GATELLI.  Yes.

 

            7                      MR. COOLICAN:  Ms. Fanucci.

 

            8                      MS. FANUCCI:  Yes.

 

            9                      MR. COOLICAN:  Mr. Courtright.

 

           10                      MR. COURTRIGHT:  Yes.

 

           11                      MR. COOLICAN:  Mr. McGoff.

 

           12                      MR. MCGOFF:  Yes.  I hereby declare

 

           13              Item 7-B legally and lawfully adopted.

 

           14                      MS. GATELLI: Make a motion to

 

           15              adjourn.

 

           16                      MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

 

           17                      MR. MCGOFF: Thank you.  Thank you

 

           18              for your participation.

 

           19

 

           20

 

           21

 

           22

 

           23

 

           24

 

           25


 

 

                                                                     123

 

 

            1                     C E R T I F I C A T E

 

            2

 

            3        I hereby certify that the proceedings and

 

            4   evidence are contained fully and accurately in the

 

            5   notes of testimony taken by me at the hearing of the

 

            6   above-captioned matter and that the foregoing is a true

 

            7   and correct transcript of the same to the best of my

 

            8   ability.

 

            9

 

           10

 

           11

                                    CATHENE S. NARDOZZI, RPR

           12                       OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

 

           13

 

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