1 SCRANTON CITY COUNCIL MEETING
7 Tuesday, April 14, 2009
10 Council Chambers
11 Scranton City Hall
12 340 North Washington Avenue
13 Scranton, Pennsylvania
CATHENE S. NARDOZZI, RPR - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
2 CITY OF SCRANTON COUNCIL:
MR. ROBERT MCGOFF, PRESIDENT
5 (Not present)
6 MS. JUDY GATELLI, VICE-PRESIDENT
MS. JANET E. EVANS
8 (Not present)
9 MS. SHERRY FANUCCI
MR. WILLIAM COURTRIGHT
12 MS. KAY GARVEY, CITY CLERK
MR. NEIL COOLICAN, ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
15 MR. AMIL MINORA, SOLICITOR
1 (Pledge of Allegiance recited and moment of reflection
3 MS. GATELLI: Roll call, please?
4 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans. Mrs.
6 MS. GATELLI: Here.
7 MR. COOLICAN: Ms. Fanucci.
8 MS. FANUCCI: Here.
9 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.
10 MR. COURTRIGHT: Here.
11 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McGoff.
12 MS. GATELLI: Dispense with the
13 reading of the minutes.
14 MS. GARVEY: Third Order. No
15 business at this time.
16 MS. GATELLI: Before we start with
17 citizens' participation I just have a few
18 announcements. First of all, Mrs. Evans
19 called in she wasn't feeling well, and
20 Mr. McGoff has been hospitalized so please
21 keep him in your prayers. He is doing okay,
22 it's nothing real serious, but he was
23 hospitalized this afternoon. And for those
24 of you who were interested in my husband,
25 and that is the reason I wasn't here last
1 week, we went to New York City to have a
2 consultation. He was having problems with
3 his knees and we were very successful and
4 thank God he is feeling much better and
5 thank you for all your thoughts, phone calls
6 and prayers about that.
7 Saturday, this Saturday as a matter
8 of fact, the 18th, there will be a Night at
9 the Races for the West Side Invader Dugout
10 Club. That will be at 7:00 at the Keyser
11 Valley Community Center. Also, this
12 Saturday, Scranton High School is having a
13 Night at the Races for their football team
14 and that will at Holy Rosary Hall on Market
15 Street at 7:00.
16 On April 26, Sunday evening, there
17 will be a Moonlight walk/run for the
18 Children's Advocacy Center. You may call
19 969-7313. It's at Nay Aug Park and it
20 starts at 6:00 p.m.
21 This Saturday there will be two
22 cleanups. There will be one in South
23 Scranton at the Penn Security parking lot.
24 We will meet there at 8 a.m., and there will
25 also be another one at Fellows Park in West
1 Scranton on Main Avenue and that will also
2 be starting at 8:00, so if anyone wishes to
3 volunteer we certainly could appreciate you
4 coming to help at either site West Scranton
5 or South Scranton.
6 I would also like to tell you that I
7 know and I mentioned, oh, probably about a
8 month ago that there was a benefit for a
9 gentleman by the name of Joseph Noones, and
10 I would just like to have you keep his
11 family in your prayers because he passed
12 away this week, and they would like to thank
13 you for all your contributions and your
14 thoughts and prayers for Mr. Noones.
15 I'd like to also send a letter to
16 two West Scranton students, one is Michael
17 Genello, who is a senior, and he received
18 the Art Wall Scholarship for his golfing
19 skills. He is also a top notch student in
20 school and received a presidential
21 scholarship to the University of Scranton.
22 He is majoring in biology and ultimately
23 hoping for a career in dentistry.
24 And also we had another student, the
25 Sixth Annual Cane competition at the
1 University of Scranton. There were 15 teams
2 from the high schools and they spent the day
3 testing their physics knowledge. West
4 Scranton had two teams which placed 8th and
5 14th in the team competition, but one of the
6 students, Michael Bartilotti that took first
7 place in the individual competition and he
8 received a plaque and $2,000 scholarship to
9 the University of Scranton.
10 And the last think I have, I don't
11 know how we can check into this, but I know
12 everybody has been talking about the bins
13 that they have at various locations for
14 clothing, and when I was reading the
15 Electric City News I found it advertisement
16 in there encouraging churches and other
17 organizations to put these bins up. If you
18 place our clothing collection boxes at your
19 location you can be paid $500 a year with
20 $200 up front to be paid per pound for what
21 the box collects and it's called recycling
22 for Pennsylvania Incorporated, 2000 Roseanna
23 Avenue, 18509, so I'm going to ask Kay to
24 please inquire about this. I know we talked
25 about it before, they don't need permits or
1 anything, but if there are too many
2 sprinkled throughout the community I
3 certainly don't think it's an asset and it's
4 certainly not helping the Salvation Army at
5 all to have these located sporadically
6 throughout our city. Some of them have
7 graffiti on them and I really would like to
8 check with zoning, etcetera, to see if these
9 are legitimate because now they are
10 advertising for groups to be paid to put
11 them in their location, and that's all I
12 have. Anything? The first speaker is Andy
14 MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia.
15 Citizen of Scranton, fellow Scrantonians. I
16 believe them boxes were put in by somebody
17 for profit. That's a box for profit. I
18 think I would point out many times and I
19 think there is a little article I think from
20 the Salvation Army saying that, you know,
21 they do the clothes and try to recycle them
22 by these people just sell them and sell them
23 away or rags or something.
24 Okay. Usually I talk on agenda
25 items because that's more pertinent, but in
1 Sunday's paper I read an article about the
2 Times, I guess it was on the editorial page
3 attacking Mr. Bolus. Mr. Bolus did not
4 bring the Genesis Center to Nay Aug. That
5 was done by our mayor, Mayor Doherty brought
6 them. All Mr. Bolus tried to do was make it
7 better for them up it at the Genesis Center.
8 Now, why they attacked him like that I have
9 no idea. I realize he -- I realize you
10 might not be able to be elected mayor,
11 everyone knows that, but to attack him on an
12 issue that is really about animals. That I
13 don't understand.
14 Now, we all know that our zoo is not
15 up to standard. That's been told many, many
16 years ago, that's why we closed it, but that
17 Miss -- I guess her name is Miss Miller or
18 Mrs. Miller tried to do something up there
19 and the mayor invited her to the city, and
20 not only that, I guess he was given her
21 maintenance free, heat free, and I think
22 50,000 if she got it all.
23 I did find out that she paid her own
24 liability insurance, so the city wasn't in
25 on that, but the thing is the animals. All
1 Mr. Bolus did was try to help that lady and
2 to be attacked for trying to help somebody
3 or help animals, as you know, it's going
4 into litigation now. It is snowballing and
5 some lawyer I guess got up there and ordered
6 them not to transfer them animals or sell
7 any and so on and forth and so they got an
8 injunction I guess, but the basic problem is
9 the zoo itself.
10 Now, we spent a fortune for somebody
11 to get up there and say you need a new zoo
12 and it's going to cost $16 million and cost
13 something like $500,000 to take care of it
14 and so far any idiot could have done that.
15 Why they had to spend the money to do that
16 is beyond me. They could have actually
17 taken that money and did some work on that
18 zoo and that would have been a better use
19 for it than sit out there an engineer it out
20 for something you never could afford to do,
21 but would do a lot of that. We seem to like
22 to engineer things out for things that can't
23 be done. I always said I will dig about 30
24 million and build a dam from East to West
25 Mountain to produce hydroelectric power, of
1 course, with Penn Valley, but, hey, it's
2 something now because they come up with
3 these plans that are the same things that --
4 pie in the sky. They got to. We are a
5 declining city and it may take 20 years
6 before we even come back up, if we can, but
7 we are in decline now so you try to lift the
8 burden to bring more people in. You don't
9 try to increase the debt and force more
10 people out and that's what's happening.
11 Our taxes are highest in the area
12 and you know the people won't come in here
13 unless they can get a KOZ. They are always
14 telling you we are not going to do nothing
15 in the city unless we get a KOZ. Bishop
16 Hannon is sitting there, something got to be
17 done with that, eventually it will done with
18 it, maybe that will turn into an office
19 building. It's hard to say it's made for a
20 good place for offices, but now we are going
21 to -- our good Chamber of Commerce wants to
22 build another office complex and they are
23 looking for another KOZ and you all know
24 that the KOZ's the only person that making
25 the benefit out of KOZ are the people that
1 get the KOZ, and you all know what happened
2 when we were trying to get out there and
3 check and see if they were doing what they
4 were supposed to do and we got the guy --
5 the guy comes overseas to tell us, well,
6 once you got the KOZ we don't do nothing,
7 but I know they are trying to -- they send
8 letters in, they are supposed to send
9 letters in anyway saying they are compliant.
10 Okay. I thank you.
11 MS. GATELLI: Lee Morgan.
12 MR. MORGAN: Good evening, Council.
13 I'm going to probably -- won't need all of
14 my five minutes tonight thankfully, but what
15 I would like to say is, you know, if the
16 wildlife sanctuary goes I just think that it
17 proves that there is really a very serious
18 leadership problem in this city and with
19 this being an election year I just think
20 that people need to pay attention to who
21 they elect because everybody has made a ton
22 of promises and to live in a city and to
23 continually have promises made to you, and
24 some of it touches to some of the things
25 Andy said about, you know, the people just
1 fleeing the city and the decline we are in.
2 It's massive. The decline is just really
3 unbelievable and then we are presented all
4 of these studies like the zoo. I think
5 there were two studies done on the new zoo
6 at Nay Aug. There is tons of money bailed
7 to all of the special interests in the city,
8 all right, and you say to this Mrs. Miller,
9 "Come on in here we have new vision for the
11 We spend all of that money for the
12 landscaping at the park, we did all of these
13 other projects. The county I believe spent
14 $300,000 for the Performing Arts Center that
15 was up there and I don't know where tat went
16 when they ripped it down and now we are
17 going to put gorillas in there, and I'm just
18 curious to if this lady leaves Nay Aug Park
19 and leaves the sanctuary after we have
20 invited her here and then we have Beatrice
21 Heveran who alleged has something to do with
22 this who is also an attorney and I'm just
23 occur us what are we going to think when all
24 of this goes down and we found out that she
25 is going to have a project there next?
1 That's troubling thing I have, okay?
2 I mean, this is in my opinion had to
3 be some kind of -- there must be another
4 vision for that center, but the mayor didn't
5 come here and tell us that. I don't want to
6 throw the mayor's name into this, but he is
7 the chief executive and this was his vision
8 in the beginning, all of this money spent
9 there and now they have litigation in the
10 Courts and now it's come to this point and
11 my point here is what are we going to do
12 with that building now? There has to be
13 another plan for it? Are we going to leave
14 it vacant like it was before? I don't
15 understand. Why do we do these studies.
16 Why do we spend this money for studies.
17 MS. GATELLI: From what I understand
18 the case in the Court today --
19 MR. MORGAN: Yes.
20 MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Miller agreed to
21 leave and she is going to leave.
22 MR. MORGAN: Well, I'm aware of that
23 to a degree, but my point is why did it come
24 to this? Didn't the council in the budget
25 give that center operating funds in this
1 year's budget?
2 MS. GATELLI: I don't believe it was
3 the city at all that was after Mrs. Miller
4 if you want to say -- it was some of the
5 animal rights people that --
6 MR. MORGAN: I disagree with that.
7 MS. GATELLI: The Scranton Times is
8 the one --
9 MR. MORGAN: I think the Scranton
10 Times has absolutely nothing to do with it
11 and I think, Mrs. Gatelli, with all due
12 respect to you, and I'm not trying to demean
13 you in any way, you have taken very
14 unpopular positions here in previous times,
15 and I know this is an election year and I
16 don't really care to go through them at the
17 podium, but I really think you are
18 misinformed, respectfully I'm telling you
19 that. I think you are misinformed.
20 MS. GATELLI: Well, I think you need
21 to read the article.
22 MR. MORGAN: Well, I'm not interested
23 in the article the Scranton Times writes, my
24 point is this, was this the mayor's vision?
25 MS. GATELLI: Well, go to the Court
1 and get the transcript.
2 MR. MORGAN: Wait. You know what,
3 that may be a necessity later.
4 MS. GATELLI: The city was not
5 involved in the litigation.
6 MR. MORGAN: They may not have been,
7 but you know what, when the mayor had you
8 throw us out of council he was still down in
9 his office, okay, so what's that have to do
10 with anything?
11 MS. FANUCCI: I don't know.
12 MS. GATELLI: I don't know.
13 MR. MORGAN: Well, that's the point
14 here, you don't know, and I'm glad you said
15 that, and the problem here is that the mayor
16 and other people manipulate other people to
17 do things and then they all stand back and
18 say they had nothing to do with it, but my
19 point is this, the mayor spent all of these
20 millions of dollars in the park. He brought
21 her here. Didn't the council grant her
22 $50,000 in the budget?
23 MS. GATELLI: Yes, we did.
24 MR. MORGAN: Did we do multiple
25 studies up there about a new zoo?
1 MS. GATELLI: Yes, we did.
2 MR. MORGAN: Okay, I rest my point --
3 my case. Thank you.
4 MS. GATELLI: And we were not
5 involved in the litigation. Mr. Miller.
6 MR. MILLER: Good evening, Council.
7 Doug Miller, Scranton. You know, last week
8 we heard a presentation on Genesis and, of
9 course, it's already been brought up this
10 evening. I really hope council is taking a
11 good hard look at this issue because it
12 seems likes, once again, we are allowing
13 someone who, quite frankly, isn't even from
14 this area deciding just to come in here and
15 dictate on the situation, someone who I
16 still would like to know her qualifications.
17 She made comments in the paper and, quite
18 frankly, it's just another example of a
19 bully coming in and trying to bully another
20 person to get her way.
21 You know, I have been criticized as
22 well as other people who supported Genesis
23 in the editorial section and we have been
24 criticized because we are only raising this
25 issue because we are looking for attention.
1 Well, that's totally inaccurate. I was here
2 last week speaking on behalf in support of
3 Genesis because I felt it was time someone
4 defended these animals whose lives were on
5 the line and the many volunteers who have
6 spent the last six or seven years donating
7 their time to these animals in the community
8 and now, like I said, we want to bully them
9 and that's what we do in this city. When
10 certain people don't get their way we
11 continue to bully until they finally get
12 their way and that looks like what's
13 happening here.
14 And as far as the city not being
15 involved, I think it's quite obvious that
16 they were involved. This council approved
17 $50,000 funding, we looked into a study, and
18 there are certain people in this
19 administration who are involved, so the city
20 is involved and we know what's going on. We
21 are not stupid. We know that there is a
22 plan involved here, this Heveran or whatever
23 her name is, this know it all who came in
24 here and trying to bully. We know there's
25 another plan.
1 MS. FANUCCI: Doug, can I ask you
2 what the plan is because we are not informed
3 of, so if you know there is a plan I'd like
4 to know what it is now since you already
6 MR. MILLER: No, no, no. There is
7 no specific plan, but we have reason to
8 believe that --
9 MS. FANUCCI: Oh, I thought you said
10 there was a plan and we weren't aware of one
11 so -- -
12 MR. MILLER: We have reason to
13 believe that there may be a plan.
14 MS. FANUCCI: So hypothetically
15 there's a plan.
16 MR. MILLER: Hypothetic, yeah, that
17 this is why this is going on.
18 MS FANUCCI: Okay. I see that's why
19 you are saying.
20 MR. MILLER: And that this Mrs.
21 Heveran is involved and that's what we
22 really believe is going on here, and it's
23 ashame because Mrs. Miller has -- was
24 invited here by the city and, you know, now
25 we want to kick her and out and I really
1 don't understand and that's what really
2 makes us believe that there is an
3 alternative plan for this and that this Mrs.
4 Heveran is involved in it and it's pretty
6 Moving on, for the last few weeks I
7 have been bringing up the $5.5 million from
8 the Single Tax Office and I know I sound
9 like a broken record and people are probably
10 sick of me bringing it up, but it's
11 important because this goes back to our
12 budget where we had a hole in the budget but
13 we went and plugged this money in, and I'd
14 still like to know what our plan is going to
15 be and I'm hopeful council will make a
16 decision soon.
17 And, you know, while we are on that
18 subject in the past I have brought up
19 creating an impact fee on KOZ's and
20 nonprofits and wouldn't this be a perfect
21 time to try and generate some revenue when
22 we are having a hard time balancing the
23 budget. When is council going to look into
24 grant money for the neighborhoods. I
25 brought this up in the past to look in the
1 programs to install curbs, sidewalks and
2 street lights. You know, these are the
3 issues that are important to taxpayers in
4 the city. I have raised these issues
5 several times and then just seem to have
6 fallen on deaf ears and I'm hopeful council
7 will, you know, take action and really take
8 a look at this Genesis thing here, let me go
9 back to that because it's really important
10 and I just would hate to see someone get
11 bullied out of town because that just seems
12 to be the case here in Scranton. Thank you.
13 MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Gawel.
14 MS. GAWEL: Hi, Council. How are
15 you. The Right-to-Know, it's about time, we
16 knew that. It simply means that we, the
17 people, the citizens who work and pay the
18 taxes and vote have a right to ask questions
19 and receive answers. Like the First
20 Amendment, the freedom of speech, the
21 Right-to-Know gives us the rights as
22 citizens to hold politicians we elect
23 accountable for not furnishing information
24 when requested. It's more than obvious that
25 the don't tell, the mismanagement, the no
1 management at all and the let's sweep it
2 under the rug is here. We very rarely get
3 answers even when you people are asking.
4 Time and time again speakers have
5 come to the podium asking questions and
6 receiving absolutely no answers. One of the
7 things is when Councilwoman Evans was
8 Finance Chairperson for two years ago or so
9 entertained a motion that all city agencies
10 required -- be required to report their
11 functions and duties to city council
12 annually. It's a common sense thing and a
13 good way to oversee things and had we maybe
14 done that we wouldn't maybe have as bad as
15 tax issues as we have.
16 The example, of course, is prior to
17 finding the big bucks in Dunmore that
18 council was informed by tax office employees
19 the tax collector doesn't come to work. If
20 you don't come to work you can't collect
21 taxes and instead you just hand them right
22 off to NCC and they are getting the money
23 and we are not. We are losing so much money
24 with NCC it's embarrassing. We could be out
25 of debt probably and that's what Mr. Doherty
1 said, you know?
2 Okay, new subject. A couple of
3 weeks ago when I was here I ran out of time.
4 I wanted to comment on the letter that you
5 two ladies had written to the Times. I was
6 thrilled to see that you were actually
7 siding -- not siding, but standing with Mrs.
8 Evans and I was -- and I hope you understand
9 that Scranton is still about 30 years behind
10 when it comes to politics and maybe you
11 should, you know, like maybe now you can see
12 that you really need to work together and
13 try and compromise, and that's all three of
14 yous, you know, I'm not blaming it all on
15 you and maybe you can knock the boy's socks
16 off because I had such hopes for you girls
17 when you got in and I --
18 MS. GATELLI: There were two other
19 women also and one is a minority, you know,
20 and she was totally neglected.
21 MS. GAWEL: So, you know, I mean, I
22 know all of you were neglected, but I
23 just specifically you three I hope would
24 work better together and, you know, maybe we
25 could get these guys to realize we women
1 really aren't dumb. We are really quite
2 intelligence and have can be quite, you
3 know, bright and come up with our own ideas
4 for things.
5 MS. GATELLI: Excuse me, Officer,
6 could you go out in the hall, please? There
7 seems to be something going on.
8 MS. GAWEL: Okay, I would like to
9 know --
10 MS. GATELLI: I'm sorry, Mrs. Gawel.
11 MS. GAWEL: That's okay.
12 MR. JACKOWITZ: It's Phyllis.
13 MS. GAWEL: I would like to know when
14 any one on council is going to ask our, and
15 I do use the term loosely, our safety
16 director when we will be getting safety
17 equipment for the police cars we used to
18 have. I'm embarrassed by the lack of
19 concern by the mayor and this
20 administration. They absolutely do not care
21 for the safety and welfare of the citizens
22 of Scranton. I hope no one fell for "I'm
23 not closing firehouses or engine companies."
24 Please, it's an election year. We
25 are not that my névé. Thank you.
1 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Spindler.
2 MR. SPINDLER: Good evening, Council,
3 Les Spindler, city resident and taxpayer and
4 homeowner. In Sunday's Doherty newsletter
5 there was a big article about the tax
6 office. I can't read the whole article, but
7 there was something that really bothered me
8 that jumped out at me. It's a quote from
9 the solicitor, Mr. McGovern, and this is
10 quoting him, "This information would be
11 included in an audit, but pardon my language
12 nobody asked for a frickin audit for so many
14 Now, is that language for a
15 solicitor to sue when he is quoted in the
16 paper as saying that? That's totally
17 ridiculous. I mean, first we have the tax
18 collector coming here and saying it's none
19 of your business to a question from a
20 council person and then we have this guy
21 talking like this. This is the people we
22 have running our tax office? No wonder we
23 have tax bills being sent to dead people.
24 This is a totally uncalled for.
25 Moving on, I, too, have to talk
1 about the wildlife center and Chris Doherty
2 is the one that solicited Mrs. Miller.
3 Mrs. Miller didn't come to the city to come
4 to Nay Aug Park and Chris Doherty doesn't
5 $50,000 to give to the wildlife center where
6 he spent millions and millions over the
7 years and I have a list here. We spent
8 $700,000 on a green fish pond. $110,000 to
9 renovate a greenhouse which was later torn
10 down and we are building a new one.
11 $750,000 for the Davis trail. $450,000 to
12 plant grass in Nay Aug. A $300,000 dog park
13 plus millions spent on crony hires and
14 raises and he doesn't have $50,000 for a
15 wildlife center. Something is definitely
16 wrong here.
17 And moving on, the same thing, in
18 Sunday's Doherty newsletter Chris Kelly
19 wrote a letter, I mean, not a letter an
20 article about the wildlife center, and Bob
21 Bolus was only here defending the wildlife
22 center last week wanting to make sure these
23 animals weren't euthanized and Chris Kelly I
24 thought took a terrible shot at Bob Bolus,
25 and I will read the quote from the paper.
1 Chris Kelly called Mr. Bolus a convicted
2 felon and serial mayoral candidate. I think
3 that's terrible. That had nothing to do
4 with the article itself. I think Chris
5 Kelly should be fired from the
6 Times-Tribune. All Mr. Bolus was doing here
7 is defending a wildlife center and this guy
8 is calling him names like this? It's
9 totally outrageous. It just shows the type
10 of journalism that's in the Doherty
12 Moving on, at last week's school
13 board meeting, school director Phillips
14 brought up about the University of Scranton
15 has bought 152 properties -- I'm sorry, 154
16 properties since 1952 and it's cost the city
17 $20 million in revenue. Since the year 2000
18 they have bought 75 properties costing the
19 school district $26 million, and the
20 University gives next to nothing to the
21 city, and most of these 75 properties were
22 done under the Doherty administration, also.
23 Moving on, Mrs. Evans isn't here, I
24 guess, the streets need line paving, but
25 I'll wait until next time. In the paper
1 yesterday and I saw walking by that the
2 Country Club Men's Shop is closing downtown.
3 That's one of the businesses Mr. Williams
4 said was part of our booming downtown a few
5 weeks ago. On that same subject, the owner
6 of the Country Club Men's Shop, Tom Kelly
7 said, the area hasn't grown in the last
8 20 years. Well, I have been coming to those
9 council meeting for seven years now and we
10 have been saying that all this time, but
11 Chris Doherty seems to think this town is
12 booming, and this is a man who has the
13 business in the city for 26 years and he is
14 saying that this area hasn't grown in
15 20 years, so who is right.
16 And lastly, I brought this up quite
17 awhile ago and didn't get an answer, in 2005
18 Governor Rendell came and gave Chris Doherty
19 a check for $4.2 million for the North
20 Scranton Junior High School project. Does
21 anyone know what happened that to money?
22 MS. GATELLI: I do know that
23 Mrs. Aebli is working with the budget
24 department, with the federal government
25 concerning that project. I don't know all
1 of the details, but I know that there were
2 some glitches in the project.
3 MR. SPINDLER: Well, that's why, I
4 asked a few week ago could we get Mr. Langan
5 here possibly for a caucus and ask him these
7 MS. GATELLI: He did respond. I
8 don't have the letter with me tonight.
9 MS. FANUCCI: Les, I don't think you
10 were here that week.
11 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, he did send a
12 response and addressed each issue, we will
13 get you a copy of it.
14 MR. SPINDLER: I don't know make if I
15 can make it here next week, but I'd
17 MS. GATELLI: Well, maybe Neil can go
18 and look for it.
19 MR. SPINDLER: I'd appreciate if you
20 could find out where the money --
21 MS. FANUCCI: Les, last week --
22 MR. SPINDLER: I just hope that
23 money didn't end up in somebody's pocket,
24 that's all. Thank you.
25 THE COURT: We will give you the
1 report, Mr. Spindler. Can you wait a few
2 minutes? He will go and look for it. Mr.
4 MR. QUINN: Thank you. Ozzie Quinn,
5 president of the Scranton/Lackawanna
6 Taxpayers' and Citizens' Association. I
7 read -- recently it was announced by the
8 Chamber of Commerce that there was a venture
9 capital for new businesses that would come
10 into the area and for job creation force,
11 you know, and working in economic
12 development at one time for the Northeastern
13 Pennsylvania Alliance Corp, there is two
14 components -- there is two components to
15 economic development, it's job creation and
16 job retention, and job retention is a
17 hands-on type of situation where actually
18 you should be able to contact the business
19 owner to see what problems may exist. We
20 see so many businesses closing nowadays not
21 only just now during this recession, but
22 because of the fact that there has been no
23 one, no one out there trying to help these
24 businesses, you know? They might have
25 problems with parking, zoning. They might
1 have problems with capital and I would like
2 to see if the city council would consider
3 letting the chamber know that it should get
4 more involved in business retention, not
5 just new business, okay? It's pretty tough
6 to snag a new business now a days and we
7 have to hang onto what we got.
8 I want to ask something and,
9 Mr. Courtright, you are running for the tax
10 collector, all right? The county pays
11 annually $80,000 for nonwage expenses for
12 furniture, office splice and equipment and
13 the city is supposed to pay for work
14 benefits and wages. However, the city has
15 paid -- has been paying $100,000 in addition
16 to nonwages or benefits. Now, to me is this
17 in a budget, I mean, what's the
18 accountability here? How does it happen? I
19 mean, I don't want to put you on the spot,
20 but I would like to see you look into that,
22 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'll do my best.
23 MR. QUINN: You know what I mean and
24 try to find out --
25 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't think they
1 are going to be too cooperative with me over
2 there, but I'll ask.
3 MR. QUINN: Yeah, because, I mean, if
4 we are spending a hundred --
5 MS. GATELLI: I don't think it's
6 just you, Bill.
7 MS. FANUCCI: No, I don't either.
8 MR. QUINN: Because besides the
9 raises and the benefits if we're giving them
10 another $100,000 that's a lot of money, you
12 MS. GATELLI: I think the district
13 pays half, too.
14 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yeah, the school
15 district pays half.
16 MR. QUINN: The school district pays
17 $100,000 and the city pays $100,000, and I'm
18 very much concerned about, you know, what --
19 MR. COURTRIGHT: The article said
20 they didn't even know and they are there.
21 Didn't the article say they didn't know
22 about it? I read the article.
23 MR. QUINN: I don't know what the --
24 nobody knows where the money is going -- why
25 the money is there for. That's what I'm
1 trying to find out, the accountability. The
2 business agent, the business manager, a
3 business administrator didn't know.
4 MR. COURTRIGHT: Maybe we can ask Kay
5 as a council if we could ask that question
6 because I think it would be have a little
7 bit more weight and meat than myself asking
9 MR. QUINN: Okay. That's we have --
10 like 100 -- again $170 million in debt, no
11 way -- any way you slice the pie, okay, and
12 you know -- you know, we see these Nay Aug
13 we see with the Wildlife Genesis, okay, and
14 the -- I don't know, I feel sad because of
15 the fact that, you know, when you -- when
16 you look at the letters to the editors and
17 whatnot most of these letters are coming
18 from outside of the city, you know, and we
19 are paying taxpayers' money, city money,
20 taxpayers' money, not only taxpayers'
21 grants, which is taxpayers' money, and the
22 kids have to pay to swim up there why
23 anybody else can go into the park free.
24 They can go into there and go to the Genesis
25 -- Wildlife Genesis, picnic and whatever,
1 okay, and I don't think that these children
2 should be -- have to pay up there especially
3 from the Hill Section because that was their
4 pool for so many years.
5 You know, we might have -- we should
6 start to consider as some income trying to
7 charge some kind of a fee to get into the
8 park because it's a ridiculous, you know,
9 that what we are doing here by charging
10 these kids and everyone else from outside
11 the region roam around in there. Thank you.
12 MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Mr. Quinn.
13 Mr. Jackowitz.
14 MR. JACKOWITZ: Good evening madame
15 acting president, city council members.
16 Bill Jackowitz, South Scranton resident,
17 member of the Taxpayers' Association, all
18 taxes paid in full, two parking tickets paid
19 within 24 hours of issuance. Bionic,
20 Akerman, believe it or not I care.
21 At least week's meeting it was nice
22 to hear that Sarena O'Malley's problem with
23 her land on Maple Street was finally
24 resolved. My question is why did it take
25 15 years, two administrations, Mayor Connors
1 and Mayor Doherty? I realize that 2009 is
2 an election year and that Mayor Doherty and
3 Councilwoman are running for reelections,
4 and again, everything that I say, please,
5 don't take it personal because I'm not
6 personally attacking anybody we just
7 disagree politically on just about
9 MS. FANUCCI: I agree with you, Bill.
10 MR. JACKOWITZ: Some will support
11 Mayor Doherty and Councilwoman Gatelli, some
12 will not. It's as simple as that. Just
13 because you do not support these incumbent
14 elected officials does not make you a hater.
15 Anybody read the letter to the editor
16 yesterday we are haters. I don't hate
17 anybody. I disagree. Okay, I believe in
18 fair and honest and open --
19 MS. GATELLI: You even offered to
20 take me for ham and eggs.
21 MR. JACKOWITZ: Yes, I did. I also
22 offered to take you out on the town late at
23 night and you said you were in bed at 9:00
24 every night.
25 MS. GATELLI: I told you Joe
1 wouldn't like that.
2 MR. JACKOWITZ: I know but anyway --
3 Amil, I'd like to have my stop time here.
4 MS. GATELLI: At least we can have a
6 MR. JACKOWITZ: I do not feel that
7 Scranton has had that type of government
8 possibly in the entire history of the City
9 of Scranton, that's fair honest and open,
10 okay? If Sarena was harassed at Scranton
11 city council like she says in her letter by
12 the Legion of Doom I would like for Sarena
13 to contact me at phone number 878-6760.
14 That's 878-6760.
15 First and foremost, there is no such
16 organization as the Legion of Doom. I would
17 know since I am the one who started wearing
18 the Legion of Doom shirt and sold over 14
19 dozen of these shirts to Scranton residents.
20 I stopped selling shirts about three years
21 ago, although, I am still getting requests
22 for the shirt. Legion of Doom, only a
23 t-shirt. Although, I do not appreciate --
24 excuse me, although I do appreciate the free
25 publicity that my idea and joke still gets.
1 WILK radio uses Legion of Doom as a lead in
2 into the early morning show, editorials,
3 letters to the editor, all because of a
4 T-shirt and a joke. Average age of T-shirt
5 buyer is approximately 61 years old. Mostly
6 retired and lifelong residents of Scranton.
7 The Single Tax Office breaks tax
8 law. I quote, "We have had no idea where
9 money goes to, Mr. Stu Renda, Scranton
10 business administrator."
11 By the way, Mr. Renda gets paid
12 $8,500 a year of taxpayers' money to have no
13 idea where tax money goes to. Consultant
14 fees for computer system cost $220,000 for
15 what? The excuse being used is that no one
16 who worked in the tax office knows how to
17 use the computer system, so my question is
18 what were they consulted on? According to
19 the Times-Tribune the tax office was using
20 taxpayers' money to pay themselves, hire
21 attorneys that are not needed, purchase
22 Mickey Mouse mousepads for the computers
23 that nobody new how to use properly.
24 Purchased mini-blinds, poinsettias, blank
25 CD's, DVD's and optical drives. A party at
1 the Stadium Club, office pays. Air purifier
2 and surveillance camera to watch the workers
3 in the Single Tax Office. I sure hope they
4 were watching the elected tax collector,
5 also. Oh, I forgot, he was very rarely in
6 his office.
7 Admittedly, laws have been broken,
8 Single Tax Law 1929, the bottom line state
9 law was violated when the tax collector, Ken
10 McDowell, combined 17 or so accounts into
11 one account. This is a violation of state
12 law and a fact that can be proven. Again,
13 Single Tax Law 1929. The rest, just a
14 newspaper story. District Attorney,
15 Council, State Representatives Smith,
16 Murphy, county commissioners, school board,
17 do your job, no selective enforcement.
18 Contact the State Attorney General and start
19 an investigation immediately.
20 My opinion, the county controllers
21 past and present are also responsible for
22 this debacle at the Single Tax Office.
23 Where were the city controllers, business
24 administrator, mayor, city council, county
25 commissioners, school board, district
1 attorney and county controllers during this
2 period of time when the Single Tax Office
3 was running amuck. Can I finish?
4 Councilwoman Evans, Councilman
5 Courtright and Legion of Doom public
6 speakers were here at city council meetings
7 requesting that someone look into the single
8 tax office. We were called names such as
9 Legion of Doom. That is how the name came
10 about, just imagine if the city control,
11 business administrator, mayor, city council,
12 county commissioner, district attorney and
13 county controller and newspaper would have
14 listened. Possibly the problem would have
15 been discovered three years ago, more than
16 likely it would have been resolved by now
17 and the City of Scranton would be a better
18 place to work, live and play.
19 Remember, speakers have been
20 arrested, cameras have been removed and
21 speakers searched, wand and made to stand
22 outside in the cold and public television
23 provider has been changed by the mayor and
24 three city council members. Who gave the
25 order? We never did find that out. So,
1 again, I want to someone to check in this.
2 A law was violated, a law was broken, and
3 it's a state law and district attorney and
4 the State Attorney General should be looking
5 into this matter. We have a lot of money
6 that is missing.
7 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Mr. Dobson.
8 MR. DOBSON: Good evening, Council.
9 Dave Dobson, resident of Scranton, member of
10 the Taxpayers' Association. On these
11 studies, you know, the thought occurred to
12 me that publically funded -- they are
13 publically funded and they're feasibility
14 studies basically and unless somebody
15 screaming at public officials not to do
16 something in a certain way and he goes ahead
17 and does it anyway, maybe some of these
18 people should give us a refund, you know,
19 for their bum studies.
20 And on this tax office business, one
21 thing that I seem to -- and I'm not entirely
22 certain of, I seem to be seeing here do we
23 still have a single account for every dollar
24 that's flowing in there? I mean, that's
25 being blamed for the problem and as far as I
1 can see we have a single -- we have a single
2 account to this day still which that should
3 have been changed as soon as it was taken
4 over and they realized there was a problem.
5 I mean, how many months has it been now?
6 MS. FANUCCI: They said they had a
7 single account in the beginning, but then
8 when we got our report they had it all
9 itemized in different accounts where the
10 money was, so obviously that was not the
11 issue. It seems that -- it seems that they
12 weren't even aware that there really wasn't
13 a single account because when we got it all
14 it says all different accounts and where the
15 money was coming, so I'm not sure they even
16 know, to be honest with you. Even after all
17 is said and done I don't think anyone is
18 anymore enlightened than they were.
19 MR. DOBSON: No. Bill, I hope if you
20 make it you've got a good accounting
21 background, Buddy, you are going to need it.
22 And another thing on this employer
23 deducting taxes and not turning them over, I
24 mean, is somebody going to wind up -- some
25 poor citizen taxpayer turned over to NCC and
1 be brutalized in that respect and have all
2 kinds of fines and penalties. It would be
3 interesting to find out who is liable for
4 unpaid taxes that have been deducted because
5 from what I understand in the case of the
6 federal government if your employer deducts
7 taxes and doesn't turn them over you are the
8 one responsible for it. So, you know, you
9 are liable to have a bunch of people making
10 offers that somebody can't refuse because
11 that's what I probably would be guilty of if
12 somebody did that to me.
13 On that trash issue last week the
14 man has to thank the DPW for the prompt
15 concern on it, but I'd like to make a
16 comment on that and it involves the
17 people -- there is some people around town,
18 you know, walking out on Tuesday and tossing
19 the bag on the back of your lawn when your
20 trash is picked up Friday just doesn't cut
21 it. We really need to influence people to
22 stop this because a lot of garbage laying
23 around it's just litter. It's just garbage
24 that blew away after it was torn up by
25 skunks or whatever.
1 And on the PPL on Nay Aug Park now,
2 I attended the open house by PPL last night
3 up in Newton-Ransom and I talked to with a
4 man for quite a bit. He was actually the
5 head engineer for quite awhile and they
6 couldn't answer my question on spraying of
7 Nay Aug Park on pesticides. I'd appreciate
8 if you people would try to influence them.
9 It's only an acre or two, keep the
10 herbicides out of Nay Aug Park. If it leaks
11 over into other trees and sufficient we are
12 going to have a bunch of problems and
13 scorched earth basically. And when I spoke
14 to him, I mean, these people are really
15 getting bashed every which way over this
16 Roseland project and I mentioned to them
17 some concerns and in the case of Enron they
18 were importing -- they were generating power
19 in California, exporting it out-of-state and
20 charged reimporting it and charging a higher
21 price, that was one of the issues. Shutting
22 down and -- shutting down power plants and
23 causing brownouts to increase the amount of
24 money coming in and power exported for
25 higher dollars was another issue, so I tried
1 to convey that to them that some -- that is
2 what some of the Pennsylvania concerns are.
3 We don't really need to have the power --
4 our power that's generated in our
5 neighborhood or our area and shipped out it
6 other states or something that feel they
7 need it more because they can afford to pay
8 a little more money.
9 The whole idea of regulating the
10 utility years ago was to ensure that they
11 could turn a profit and that they would
12 never, ever have to operate at a loss, so,
13 you know, I just try to get it passed to the
14 guy that, okay, you know, and it goes two
15 ways, so you might want to look into some of
16 those issues. There is -- down at the
17 library there is a really good article, I'll
18 try to make it brief Enron is smartest guy
19 in the class and it had some really, really
20 good points about what happens when energy
21 and systems are deregulated and people wind
22 up on the roof and wall the way around. If
23 your refrigerator kicks off there goes your
24 frozen foods again. Have a good night.
25 MS. SCHUMACHER: Good evening, two
1 council persons, Marie Schumacher.
2 MS. GATELLI: I don't know if she
3 would hearing you. There is not a quorum
5 MS. SCHUMACHER: You are not voting.
6 MS. FANUCCI: Can you hear public
7 comment without a quorum?
8 MS. GATELLI: Can we?
9 MS. SCHUMACHER: Yeah.
10 MR. MINORA: Yes.
11 MS. SCHUMACHER: Resident and member
12 of the Taxpayers' Association. Before I get
13 to the remarks I want to make tonight I want
14 to publically thank Mayor Doherty for the
15 wonderful condition of our streets because
16 it caused a bolt -- going over all of these
17 potholes caused a bolt to loosen in my
18 vehicle which happened to give out halfway
19 to church on Sunday and I did not let that
20 ruin the glorious holiday that it was and I
21 hope you all had a glorious Easter and
23 This afternoon in Judge Minora's
24 courtroom number three, I heard Mrs. Miller,
25 director of the Genesis Wildlife Center
1 testify under oath that Mayor Doherty over
2 six years ago came to her private residence
3 in Tobyhanna and asked her to bring her
4 animals to Nay Aug. Mr. Doherty promised a
5 new facility, a salary and staff and an
6 operating budget. What did she get after
7 six and a half plus years of patience, an
8 eviction notice.
9 Further, Mrs. Miller said the city
10 had provided only $150,000 total or an
11 average of $25,000 a year not the $50,000
12 per year we have been reading about in the
13 paper. Mr. Doherty now says our distressed
14 city cannot afford the wildlife center so I
15 take this as an admission by Mayor Doherty
16 that we are more distressed now than we were
17 in 2003 when he made this offer.
18 Before I talk more about lies, lies
19 and more lies I want to go back two weeks
20 when I talked at length about the BRT Ice
21 contract with the city. To refresh, on
22 April 15, 2006, the Scranton Redevelopment
23 Authority executed a resolution that
24 authorized the Redevelopment Contract with
25 BRT Ice Limited Partnership be entered into
1 and forwarded to the City of Scranton
2 Council as required by the Urban
3 Redevelopment -- excuse me, Urban
4 Redevelopment law for review and approval in
5 regard to the property located in the 800
6 block of Providence Road.
7 Mrs. Gatelli, at that time you told
8 me you had asked Mr. Minora to review those
9 contracts and see and I would like to give
10 him some of my time.
11 MR. MINORA: I had put a call into
12 Attorney Greco, I have spoken to him. I
13 asked him to review those contracts and give
14 me his opinion since he drafted them on what
15 the obligations are of that. I haven't
16 heard back from him yet.
17 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.
18 MS. SCHUMACHER: Do you have any idea
19 when we will? Is there any idea when we
20 will have resolution on this?
21 MS. GATELLI: We can try to call him
22 again, Amil?
23 MR. MINORA: I've just given you
24 what I know. Anything else would be
1 MS. SCHUMACHER: Thank you. Okay.
2 Then back to the lies. We have been told
3 that we live in a progressive city, however,
4 there are cities much smaller than Scranton
5 that use global positioning technology, for
6 instance, to pinpoint the location of every
7 fire hydrant such that firefighters on their
8 way to an incident know which way they
9 should go to have the best access to water.
10 In Scranton, we can't even get the hydrants
11 to be color-coded to denote the water flow.
12 Mrs. Miller -- again, in the lies
13 theory, Mrs. Miller is not the only person
14 to whom the mayor has lied. Again, back in
15 November of 2001 the mayor said he would be
16 the sixth council person if he was elected
17 mayor. In June of 2002, he told the
18 residents there would probably be a tax
19 increase if the Recovery Plan was defeated
20 so the Recovery Plan was approved and we
21 still got a 25 percent tax increase which I
22 predict there will be more to follow.
23 In October of 2005, one month before
24 the last mayoral election, the mayor
25 announced that a $1.2 million drainage
1 project on East Elm Street from the
2 Friendship House to Blucher Avenue would be
3 in the next year estimated to be completed
4 in the next year's construction cycle.
5 What's the status? Four years later, hasn't
6 even been started, although, we have
7 probably spent a fortune as they did on East
8 Mountain Road with surveyor's making it and
9 remarking it. I'll continue with my lies,
10 lies and more lies next week. Thank you.
11 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Schumacher, I did
12 get your note about the rental registration.
13 Mrs. Garvey brought it to my attention and I
14 am inquiring once again --
15 MS. SCHUMACHER: Thank you.
16 MS. GATELLI: -- about that.
17 MS. SCHUMACHER: I look forward to
18 that answer as well.
19 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Ellman is next.
20 MR. ELLMAN: Hello, Council. I'm
21 sorry, I didn't know who I followed. I
22 don't have much to say. I had a bunch of
23 people ask me what we named our little baby.
24 We named him Slugo. No particular reason,
25 just a name. I have to agree with almost
1 everybody tonight, which ought to be a earth
2 shaking to you all, but I think one good zoo
3 would probably bring in -- is worth 100
4 Steamtowns. People will come to a zoo over
5 and over and over, especially children,
6 because I grew up in Memphis which has a
7 beautiful zoo and I couldn't begin to say
8 how many times I went a year with friends to
9 it. You go to Steamtown once and, you know,
10 it's like going to the Grand Canyon, one
11 time is enough. You know, but a zoo is
12 something to just -- it just brings families
13 together, you know, and I just love to see
15 You know, all of the money that went
16 down the drain and every time you ask about
17 it they say it's in Nay Aug, but it
18 certainly wasn't in the zoo. It's a toss up
19 about for me whether they should have closed
20 it or not because I'm an animal lover and I
21 hate to see any kind of animal confined like
22 that, but where there is life there is hope
23 I guess.
24 You know, to talk about the tax
25 office, I stood here two or three years ago,
1 four years ago, I don't remember, I got
2 $2,400 floating around there some place. I
3 have hired two lawyers and they couldn't get
4 any intelligent response from the tax office
5 about my money. They turned it over to the
6 that NCC and we gave them $2,400 when I
7 still have the paperwork that the bank paid
8 my taxes every year. I don't know what the
9 trouble is.
10 One lawyer charged $500 and couldn't
11 get nothing and then I went to the Bureau of
12 the Aging and their attorney didn't charge
13 nothing, but he couldn't get anything from
14 the office. I have talked to him -- the
15 only intelligent person I ever found over
16 there was Mr. Cox and his expertise wasn't
17 about the money.
18 I've never been in this Country Club
19 men's store, but I hate to see them go out.
20 I park my car around there sometimes. I
21 guess Mr. Doherty can make another Irish bar
22 and KOZ the area, you know, like he likes to
23 do. He needs to KOZ some of the little
24 neighborhood places and put in some Irish
25 bars because there is empty stores all over
1 the town, you know. I guess everybody at
2 the Taurus Club gets mad at me for Irish
4 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mr. Ellman, I was up
5 there at lunch and you weren't there.
6 MR. ELLMAN: Really.
7 MR. COURTRIGHT: I even went tot he
8 men's room. I thought you were holding a
9 meeting in there, but you weren't there.
10 MR. ELLMAN: Did you look on the
11 floor? I might have been in the bathroom
12 getting some information from somebody. Our
13 new dog got red eyes. He goes outside and
14 he is allergic to something so we had to go
15 to the vet yesterday and get him just some
16 lotion to put in his eyes, he is allergic to
17 something, he turned red and comes in the
18 house and he looks good. Miss Rosie said he
19 looks like he is being sitting up at the
20 Taurus Club with me all evening.
21 I don't know. I love animals, but
22 there is a program on Friday nights called
23 Dog Town. I just donated Lump's wheelchair
24 to them and they wrote me a beautiful letter
25 and sent me some information. Lump died
1 before he could use his wheelchair and the
2 people told me I could send it back to them,
3 but I donated it. I mean, I am just saying
4 I just love animals and I would love to see
5 Mr. Doherty or somebody do something with a
7 I could remember, I wasn't real
8 close with my parents like a lot of people
9 because it was the war years and they
10 worked, but I can remember going to the zoo
11 with them just time after time. Well, I
12 won't waste your time. Thank you.
13 MS. GATELLI: Mr. McCloe. I think
14 you need another dog, Mr. Ellman.
15 MS. FANUCCI: He just got one this
17 MS. GATELLI: Oh, you got one?
18 MS. FANUCCI: Last week, yeah.
19 MR. ELLMAN: You didn't hear about
20 our new addition to the family?
21 MS. GATELLI: No.
22 MR. ELLMAN: You need to watch last
23 week's video.
24 MR. GATELLI: Mr. Jackowitz is going
25 to get me a copy of it. I'm sorry,
1 Mr. McCloe.
2 MR. MCGOFF: That's okay. Good
3 evening. My name is Brett McCloe, Scranton
4 taxpayer, homeowner. Last week I had made
5 reference to a saying that you can judge a
6 society by how it treats the least of it's
7 citizens. I just want to say that you can
8 also judge a society by how it treats the
9 best of it's citizens and, no, it's not the
10 business owners and entrepreneurs. No, it's
11 not the academia and, no, it's not the
12 artists. Instead, it those who protect and
13 serve the very quality of life that others
14 take for granted, take credit for, and
15 benefit from.
16 It was also said that fear tactics
17 will become the focus of this year's
18 election. Police and fire protection has
19 risen to the top of our consciousness. It's
20 funny how anyone who can blame and criticize
21 the very citizens who protect and serve the
22 public then cite them for the economic
23 problems that face the city. I, for one,
24 don't know if I have the courage to run into
25 a burning building, the strength to protect
1 the streets from those who would do the
2 citizens' harm or the speed and knowledge it
3 takes to be first on the scene to revive a
4 still heart. The price, $26 million.
5 Living to see another day, priceless.
6 I tried to put some numbers into
7 perspective when talking to a woman at a
8 local grocery store. 294 American soldiers
9 were killed in action in Iraq in 2008. 2008
10 also saw 114 firefighters and 140 police
11 officers lose their lives in the line of
12 duty. She said all they do is just sit
13 around, why should we pay them for so much
14 down time, as it was their fault that there
15 was no fires. Ignorant as she was for of
16 her own ignorance, in other words, she
17 didn't care what she didn't know. It became
18 all to apparent that she was incapable of
19 thinking in more than two dimensions due to
20 her political affiliations. All she could
21 quote was Mrs. Fanucci's ten-minute gotcha
22 scenario that this is what you get and don't
23 get when you fight city hall.
24 Once again, I told her the numbers,
25 294 soldiers in Iraq, 254 police and
1 firefighters in America, 40 lost lives
2 separating the two. I also wanted her to
3 realize that fire is a force of nature. It
4 has no politics. It cannot be bargained
5 with. It takes no prisoners and absolutely
6 will not stop until it has consumed
7 everything in it's path, including human
9 Lastly, I told her the next time she
10 sees a firefighter having a sit remember
11 that this might be the last time you ever
12 see that firefighter, that police officer
13 and to think not twice but three times
14 before you try to quantify how much their
15 lives are worth while they stand ready,
16 willing and able to give theirs to save
18 I just want to everyone to try to
19 understand that there are three sides to
20 every argument just like there are three
21 sides to every coin. There is heads, there
22 is tails, and then there is the edge.
23 Without the edge, the coin does not exist.
24 I just want everyone to engage in good
25 conversation and above all vote. Thank you.
1 MS. GATELLI: Allison Sayers.
2 MS. SAYERS: Good evening. The zoo
3 is on my topic, too. The zoo was and still
4 is concrete. It's always been concrete.
5 For six years that was okay. Now, six years
6 later, the mayor doesn't want it anymore.
7 He wanted the zoo and kept up the pressure
8 until he got what he wanted. There is
9 nothing in writing of his offer to
10 Mrs. Miller and her husband. As I said, the
11 zoo was always concrete, but now he doesn't
12 want this zoo and he promised $50,000 a year
13 and apparently she has not been getting that
14 so maybe you want to check that and see
15 where that's been going.
16 The zoo should stay as is until
17 Mrs. Miller can place the animals, well, at
18 the animal's convenience and that was
19 established this afternoon that they all
20 belonged to her. She has been paying
21 three-quarters of the expenses for the
22 center and for the animals and some lady
23 comes in from out-of-state and wants them
24 distributed to Texas and every place. The
25 object is not to have them go into research,
1 and the three animals that were relocated
2 had to come back. They had to be sedated.
3 The lynx is a very elderly cat and this is
4 detrimental to the cat's health and she is
5 going to have to be sedated again when she
6 leaves the center and goes to Tobyhanna.
7 As established at the meeting this
8 afternoon, the animals belong to Mrs.
9 Miller and she should be the only one making
10 the decisions to where they should relocate,
11 which has been established. The city should
12 meet their obligation until the animals can
13 be relocated by Mrs. Miller at the animal's
14 convenience so that they are not stressed
15 out so she can have them placed ready for
16 them and not have to do work on the area
17 once they are there and so she can move one
18 at a time successfully.
19 Apparently, there is pressure being
20 put on by the mayor and I have heard rumors
21 about horses at the zoo to replace the
22 animals are there now. I don't know if this
23 is true or not.
24 MS. FANUCCI: I think it's just a
1 MS. SAYERS: If this is true or not,
2 but I hope they leave the horses in Waverly.
3 There is lot of cleanup with that and they
4 can mess up the whole park. I suggest that
5 nothing else be established in this spot for
6 at least five years. Maybe it would be good
7 to tear it down, too, and also the aviary
8 which is across from the zoo.
9 Going onto the tax collector job, I
10 don't understand why it's elected. Many
11 positions in New Jersey where I was a
12 municipal auditor these places are -- people
13 are placed by civil service exam. That
14 means that somebody has to know the laws,
15 they have to know what to do when they are
16 in there. It's not going to be somebody
17 that doesn't come from an adequate
18 background. I don't know what
19 Mr. Courtright's background is, but I will
20 be looking seriously into your campaign
22 MS. FANUCCI: Well, I just want to
23 tell you that's a state law so that would
24 have to be done on a state level to change
25 that. We are obligated to have an election
1 to have a tax collector right now.
2 MS. SAYERS: Well, it would be
3 something to look into. It would benefit
4 the whole state, but Scranton definitely
5 needs it, and what happened to an audit
6 every year, that's not required?
7 MR. COURTRIGHT: It is.
8 MS. FANUCCI: It is required.
9 MS. SAYERS: Whatever happened to
10 it? Everybody says, well, I didn't know.
11 Where I came from in New Jersey they had
12 somebody donate money for a pool and it was
13 -- the money was invested for keeping the
14 pool up and all that they were allowed to
15 charge people was for the waterproof badge.
16 And on herbicides, that bothers a lot of
17 people. They say, "Oh, it's safe."
18 It's not safe. I have family
19 members that when they use them up in Wayne
20 County where she lives they have to give her
21 a week's notice so she can clear out. Thank
23 MS. GATELLI: Phyllis.
24 MS. HUMPHRIES: Pacha. Freta.
25 Salaam aleikum and shalom, and peace. But
1 the true peace is coming when Jesus Christ
2 comes. You know, hacking of computers? My
3 computer was hacked in, but it was somebody
4 that wanted to enlighten me about the City
5 of Scranton. First it went to Mayor Connors
6 -- or excuse me, not Mayor Connors, it went
7 to Mayor Doherty and I really wanted to know
8 how the system worked and the mayor has
9 override of a lot of the officials with the
10 police department, District Attorney's
11 Office and, oh, that's very interesting.
12 Then I went to -- it went to -- and I'm
13 standing there watching this to stuntmen
14 mayor. It had to do with movies about that
15 they put here for the festival which Mrs.
16 Gatelli was on, Rabbi Mendelson that I gave
17 him documents to go to Israel, Monsignor
18 Quinn. It's kind of funny, but it's kind of
19 like of shocking while I was watching this.
20 There is a law which I told, and
21 everybody knows here, and that lawyer, judge
22 or whatever he represents here is very much
23 aware of. We have our civil rights, we have
24 the United States constitution in America
25 and we have the Geneva Convention. Most
1 people did a lot of crimes against me, some
2 police falsified documents here, which
3 medical would show evidently different. Did
4 you ever hear -- I saved the turkey last
5 year, the turkey bones and I paint on them.
6 There is a Prince turkey from Riyadh. He is
7 with the central intelligence. Are you
8 familiar with him, Mrs. Gatelli?
9 MS. GATELLI: No.
10 MS. HUMPHRIES: But I know Monsignor
11 Quinn is. In church, after the Holy
12 Communion is when the fullest spirit
13 desantis is in you and I could get messages.
14 They had a write up in the paper about
15 people that went to the church and pulling
16 out, but numerous people ran to talk to my
17 best friend, lay down your life for your
18 best friend, Sally Thompson and Mariette.
19 They go back constantly, causing problems,
20 which breaks the ecumenical reconciliation
21 of the churches.
22 My car was flattened. Months ago
23 was my daughter was ran off the road
24 thinking it was me, that she is lucky she is
1 Yesterday, I called the President of
2 the United States because of me filing
3 papers with the civil rights they blocked
4 everything here in the City of Scranton to
5 not go any further to the proper people to
6 protect our country and with the Geneva
7 Convention it not only protection of
8 enemies, it's the protection of the
9 civilians in time of war.
10 My family has been affected by what
11 has been affected and abuse of me. Some of
12 the police are afraid to say anything and
13 they are afraid of losing their jobs, so now
14 it's like buckaroo cleanup at the corral.
15 Rendell, Hillary Clinton, I wrote them
16 letters prior top them coming into office
17 and Casey and to no avail did they help me,
18 but truly they don't even help the unborn.
19 I ask everybody to listen to what
20 I'm saying, Scranton Counseling Center
21 misdiagnosed me and the corruption is going
22 to go from Judge Robinson who is deceased
23 all the way up to the president and this is
24 not a threat, this is a promise. When you
25 got to clean up, you got to clean up no
1 matter what, so I hope to God everybody does
2 listen to this. Somebody stopped me, this
3 Jimmy said, "You know what," he says, "You
4 are so much fun and the city council loves
5 you," and he says, "you are the last one on
6 and you bring like kind of like a fun, but
7 you tell the truth what's going on that
8 everybody is afraid of."
9 Monica and Diana, I won't say their
10 last name, Bob, Jim, you are going to be
11 arrested. You are not going to tell me to
12 go to another country.
13 MS. GATELLI: Thanks, Phyllis. Thank
15 MS. HUMPHRIES: I want them to know,
16 they can't tell nobody to go to another
17 country when I'm a United States citizen,
18 Italian, Polish, Czechoslovakian, Austrian
19 descent. I have family in Russia, I have
20 family in Japan. I have family all over
21 different countries and my family and my
22 families and some of these people are being
23 affected. I have my daughter-in-law's
24 mother is visiting from Russia right now.
25 So when you are dealing with me and hurting
1 me you are hurting these countries all the
2 way to Rome.
3 And the other thing I have to say
4 it's disgusting the way they treat Bishop
5 Martino, it's appalling. It's appalling.
6 MR. COURTRIGHT: Phyllis, your time
7 is up.
8 MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Phyllis.
9 MS. HUMPHRIES: My time is not up,
10 everybody else's time is up. You know, I
11 looked at recipe and it had ham butt and a
12 bone is a curse and a bone could be a
13 blessing so ping pong to everybody.
14 MS. GATELLI: Is there anyone else?
15 By the way, there is a ping pong tournament
16 on Saturday. Mayor Connors will be down
17 there with his paddle.
18 MS. HUMPHRIES: I just hope him to
19 get the first two paddles.
20 MR. GERVASI: Good evening, City
21 Council. I really had nothing else to say
22 until, Mrs. Fanucci, I know you get mad at
23 me sometimes when I don't pay attention to
24 you, but I had your -- I was very attentive
25 last week at the end of the meeting during
1 motions when you were talking about the
2 health care situation. I think you miss the
3 point. I don't think there is any city
4 employees that are actually complaining
5 about the health care increases or what the
6 amount is, we are really not because it's
7 not that bad, the point is that we shouldn't
8 be paying that and there is a good reason
9 for it. Let me give you a little history
10 lesson on the health care, because it seems
11 like everybody is trying to divide, well,
12 the city employees are paying this much and
13 everybody else has to pay a lot more. How
14 you can you understand the whole situation.
15 MS. FANUCCI: I think I do, but let's
17 MR. GERVASI: Let's go.
18 MS. FANUCCI: Go ahead.
19 MR. GERVASI: 1992 the first
20 Recovery Plan, obviously health care was a
21 problem, it was rising even back then. The
22 state said that we were going to have a
23 health care cost containment committee when
24 the employees for the first time ever, the
25 employees would sit with the city and go
1 against the insurance companies and try to
2 get the best deal, and that's what happened.
3 Now, there was problems, the city
4 wasn't cooperating at the time during the
5 90's and finally, finally, we went to Court
6 I believe in 1993 or '94 I wasn't on the
7 board at the time, it was my predecessors
8 that were on that committee, I believe Nancy
9 Krake was there from the beginning, she
10 would probably know this a lot better than
11 me the history of it. At that time we
12 actually had to force the city through an
13 arbitration to sit down with us because our
14 health care premiums were going up and our
15 copays and our contributions were going and
16 up, but because of our contract language we
17 had the opportunity to lower our health
18 care, change our health care provider, do
19 all kind of sort of things like that to
20 lower the costs because it was -- it was a
21 benefit for us, too, because while we saved
22 the city money, which is saving the
23 taxpayers' money, we saved ourselves higher
24 copays and contributions, so things were a
25 little rocky for the first few years.
1 Once we forced the city to sit down
2 and partner with us we knocked off
3 $2 million in health care costs in one year.
4 That was Blue Cross at the time. While that
5 process was taking place we did an audit, it
6 was Heffler Company, did an audit, they came
7 back with a cursory audit that showed that
8 the city was dumping 33 percent of all of
9 the claims, comp claims for work-related
10 injuries into our health care provider was
11 paying them.
12 Now, if you know anything about
13 health care what they do is every year a
14 health care provider will come back to the
15 city, and it's based on your experience,
16 which is basically how much you used the
17 year before and that's how they base what
18 you premiums are going to be the following
19 year. Because there was 33 percent dumped
20 into comp, which should have been taken care
21 of from the comp carrier, would that cursory
22 audit that was done we then went to the city
23 and said, "We were overcharged in
24 contributions and copays," and the city, the
25 taxpayers were overcharged, so we began --
1 the city, of course, didn't do anything
2 about it. We forced them in Court again to
3 did a proper audit, a complete audit so we
4 could find out the exact numbers so we would
5 know how to proceed and get a benchmark and
6 at that point now how to proceed.
7 The Doherty administration came in,
8 they fired the auditing company, that's a
9 fact, they fired our health care consultants
10 which in 2000, I believe '99 or 2000, with
11 no help from the state, with no help from
12 the Pennsylvania Economy League, the unions,
13 the DPW and the clerical, the fire and the
14 police unions took the city to Court again
15 and forced the city to do what the health
16 care cost containment language said. At
17 that time we had a good consultant and we
18 lopped off $5 million off of our health
19 care, and at that time our health care
20 contributions and copays went away for like
21 three years. We went self-insured.
22 Mr. Doherty fired that consultant
23 that we had that was legally and
24 contractually mandated that the city has.
25 For the next few years nothing happened. We
1 had a few health care meetings, nothing
2 happened. We would have a few meetings, we
3 would come in, the HR department would be
4 there --
5 MS. FANUCCI: What years are we at
6 now, I just want to get --
7 MR. GERVASI: These years were
8 probably 2003 -- two, three, four, in the
9 beginning of the Doherty administration.
10 MS. FANUCCI: Okay.
11 MR. GERVASI: We found out that the
12 censuses were wrong, there was deceased
13 people still on our books. There was people
14 that were in the wrong what they call
15 buckets, there was retirees and active
16 lists, there was actives and retiree lists,
17 to make a long story short we are not
18 complaining about what we pay in
19 contributions to health care. What we are
20 complaining about --
21 MS. FANUCCI: I know you are not. Go
23 MS. GERVASI: You shouldn't either
24 because you pay less than us.
25 MS. FANUCCI: I do not.
1 MS. GERVASI: Sure you do.
2 MS. FANUCCI: No, I don't.
3 MR. GERVASI: I'll bring that next
4 week and I'll show it.
5 MS. FANUCCI: You should. You
6 should because you are absolutely incorrect.
7 MR. GERVASI: Okay.
8 MR. FANUCCI: And I referred a lot of
9 paperwork, but, go ahead.
10 MR. GERVASI: But the point I'm
11 trying to make is, and over my time, the
12 point I'm trying to make is we are not
13 complaining what we pay. What we are
14 complaining about is the city did not
15 cooperate with us. We had our first health
16 care cost containment meeting in two, two
17 and a half years. There was a whole bunch
18 of things that we are going to do with our
19 new consultant and, frankly, at this point
20 the seven judges that just decided that
21 Court order that the mayor is touting that
22 the city somehow won they also upheld our
23 cost containment language.
24 MS. FANUCCI: Yes.
25 MR. GERVASI: So don't try to say
1 the city employees are complaining about
2 copays going up when the city is
3 responsible, the mayor and the HR director
4 is responsible for any increases that
5 happened over the last five years because
6 they did not cooperate with us.
7 MS. FANUCCI: Okay, but I was not
8 saying you did not say that that was not
9 okay, what I was referring to was
10 Mr. Ancherani coming up here and saying, "I
11 have a person whose health care went up --"
12 how many percent did you say at the time?
13 MR. ANCHERANI: 1,100.
14 MS. FANUCCI: And that's what I was
15 referring to, that it did go up that
16 percentage and what you were paying and what
17 you were paying now, so actually I was just
18 giving accurate information. I did not say
19 you were up here complaining about it, I was
20 saying that Ancherani said that somebody's
21 health care went up --
22 MR. GERVASI: We weren't.
23 MS. FANUCCI: And that's exactly what
24 I said.
25 MR. GERVASI: The point I'm trying
1 to make is this, it did go up. The point
2 I'm trying to make is this --
3 MS. FANUCCI: Yes, it did.
4 MR. GERVASI: We are not complaining
5 what it's at, we are complaining where it
6 should be. We are complaining where it
7 should be because the city has not
8 cooperated with us.
9 MS. FANUCCI: So you believe you are
10 paying too much now as -- you are
11 contributing too much to your health care,
12 it's at your cap?
13 MR. GERVASI: Absolutely, because
14 what you need to know is --
15 MS. FANUCCI: Okay.
16 MR. GERVASI: Is the equivalent of
17 the health care that we have. I'm done now.
18 The level of health care we have right now
19 if you pay the premium to Blue Cross for
20 that health care you would paying $14,900 a
21 year. The taxpayers are not paying that
22 much. As a matter of fact, I think we are
23 still around the cap which is probably about
24 $8,000 for the exact same health care that's
25 because of the Health Care Committee.
1 That's because of the Health Care Committee.
2 MS. GATELLI: We need the Health Care
3 Committee up the street.
4 MR. GERVASI: Yes, you did, because
5 that's what you are paying, that's the
6 taxpayers are paying for your health care,
7 $14,900 and we're in the same as Access
8 Care-II. We have the exact same thing as
9 what you have except we are paying probably
10 only 60 percent of that.
11 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.
12 MR. GERVASI: That's the point.
13 MS. CYPRUS: Good evening. My name
14 is Mrs. Ellen Cyprus and this is my first
15 time before council. I actually come here
16 this evening because I have a concern and I
17 want to voice my opinion with regard to the
18 Genesis Center up at Nay Aug. I find it
19 very distasteful that someone who is not
20 from the area had had so much to say about
21 the place, and from what I understand she
22 has only seen the place on a couple of
23 occasions and to come forth and make all of
24 these allegations and to create such
25 pandemonium is quite outrageous. Ms.
1 Heveran also claims to have been on the
2 Board of the New England Zoo, however, I
3 have heard claims that no one there has ever
4 heard of her. If she is concerned with the
5 Genesis Center and the welfare of these
6 animals she should be using all of this
7 dedicated effort seeing what she could do in
8 the way of help, financially or any other
9 way, rather than just spewing all of this
10 negativity an creating an uproar, disrupting
11 people's lives and causing all kinds of
13 To often, people have agendas. They
14 don't fully realize what the result of the
15 outcome would be. They satisfy and placate
16 themselves believing they have done the
17 right thing and when all is said and done
18 all they have really done is to displace yet
19 again more victims of their agenda who this
20 time began at the Genesis Center. It takes
21 a lot of time and effort to be able to
22 accomplish what Margaret has done and
23 winning over the confidence and trust of her
24 charges. Animals do not adopt as readily as
25 humans and when those animals have other
1 psychological issues it is even more
2 distressing for them.
3 I understand that the Genesis Center
4 was promised a lot of help and other things
5 by the city when they first came here and
6 I'm sure a lot of these promises were made,
7 if they were made good on, would have a very
8 positive affect on the center and,
9 obviously, improve a lot of the issues and
10 concern. Rather than ousting the Genesis
11 Center, I think it would be more prudent to
12 make good on the promises that were offered
13 in the beginning and allow them to remain
15 I am a financial response or of the
16 animals and have volunteered my time also to
17 help. The bottom line is the city just
18 needed to step up to the plate. The Genesis
19 Center may not be the ideal or the perfect
20 place in comparison to other noteworthy zoos
21 and sanctuaries, but for the animals it
22 houses it's a God send and a vast
23 improvement from whence they came. Even
24 though it's not a pretty sanctuary, the love
25 and care these animals get far surpasses the
1 loss. They are well-fed, warm and
2 protected, and speaking of protection, to my
3 knowledge there is no validity to Mrs.
4 Heveran's claim of public endangerment. On
5 all of occasions that I have been there, not
6 one time did I see or feel that the public
7 would be in danger in any way. There are
8 barriers that keep the public at bay by a
9 good distance and other safeguards in place
10 as well.
11 This is the last stop for most of
12 these animals there. Let them live in
13 peace, they don't need another mart. And I
14 want to talk about a footnote to this
15 because it has come to my attention that as
16 a result of the hearing today that she has
17 decided to move back to Tobyhanna. I think
18 it's ashame. I think it's a disgrace. It's
19 really just more proverbial egg on the face
20 of the city. I think the fact that Mrs.
21 Heveran stepped in here, she has only moved
22 in here relatively recently and come from a
23 different state and her claim to fame now is
24 totally dissolving the sanctuary. What a
25 wonderful thing. What a wonderful epitate
1 for someone to have. I think it's ashame.
2 This woman came here, made a great
3 deal of effort to move here all of these
4 years ago, was made promises to, they
5 weren't seen through. I just think it's a
6 damn shame. Thank you.
7 MS. KRAKE: Good evening, Council.
8 My name is Nancy Krake. Last week
9 Mrs. Fanucci said that the mayor alone is
10 not responsible for the financial trouble
11 the city is in, and I agree 100 percent.
12 One man alone could not have caused this
13 financial disaster. Mrs. Fanucci, you and
14 Mrs. Gatelli are two of the three
15 accomplices to this crime against the
16 citizenry while the mayor himself said all
17 he needs is three votes. Mrs. Fanucci, Mrs.
18 Gatelli and Mr. McGoff are the three votes
19 that gave the mayor the license to borrow
20 and tax us more in these eight years than
21 ever before in the history of this city.
22 MS. GATELLI: We are the only three.
23 I'm sorry.
24 MS. KRAKE: That's quite all right.
25 MS. GATELLI: But I can't be quiet
1 when are you telling the whole truth, Nancy.
2 We are only here three years. You are
3 talking about from 2002, there were other
4 people here that borrowed money, too.
5 MS. KRAKE: I'm sorry that's how you
6 feel, but I'm talking about --
7 MS. GATELLI: Oh, no, I --
8 MS. KRAKE: I'm talking about actual
10 MS. GATELLI: Tell the truth. Mr.
11 DiBileo borrowed money, too, and so did
12 Mr. Courtright. I'll bring statistics next
14 MS. KRAKE: If you are finished --
15 MS. GATELLI: I don't think it's fair
16 that you are only blaming certain people
17 when we are only here three years of the
19 MS. KRAKE: Are you finished?
20 MS. GATELLI: Go ahead.
21 MS. KRAKE: Are you finished.
22 MS. GATELLI: For now I am.
23 MS. KRAKE: You are? Thank you. I
24 was speaking concerning how three people
25 have voted during their terms. If you can't
1 understand that, that's okay. It's not okay
2 for the taxpayers, but it's okay for you
3 because you are running again so you
4 obviously are very okay with how you have
6 MS. GATELLI: Yes, I am.
7 MS. KRAKE: We didn't just magically
8 fall into a recession -- oh. We did not
9 just magically fall into a recession.
10 Mrs. Fanucci, Mrs. Gatelli caused this
11 city's recession. You raised the taxes
12 27 percent and you borrowed the millions
13 that buried us under a mountain of debt.
14 I agree, Mayor Doherty didn't cause
15 this financial distress alone. Mrs. Fanucci
16 and Mrs. Gatelli have left the taxpayers
17 holding the bag and apparently they are not
18 aware of it. Thank you.
19 MS. GATELLI: Hello, Mrs. Franus.
20 MS. FRANUS: Fay Franus, Scranton.
21 What I'm saying tonight is a matter of fact,
22 it's my opinion. I agree with Mrs. Krake
23 completely. I can't -- Judy, I can't get
24 over this charade this last couple of months
25 with you running for election. All this
1 sweetness and sugar. I'm gaining wait just
2 listening to you. I can't even comprehend
3 this. Where is the other Judy Gatelli that
4 I knew.
5 MS. FANUCCI: When you are not here,
7 MS. FRANUS: What's that?
8 MS. FANUCCI: You guys go at when you
9 are here. When you are not here she doesn't
10 have to go at it as much maybe.
11 MS. FRANUS: Well, the point is I'm
12 stating the facts here. Where is that other
13 person? The one that raised the taxes
14 25 percent and told me they don't represent
15 me. The one that had me taken out by police
16 twice and the one that had the people
17 standing outside for weeks and weeks and had
18 people scanned. What about the lawsuit that
19 you had with the website that the taxpayers
20 are paying. Nancy Krake asked that question
21 last week but I didn't hear an answer. The
22 taxpayers are paying.
23 MS. GATELLI: I'll answer all of this
24 in motions.
25 MS. FRANUS: Well, I'm asking you to
1 answer it now. Are you -- are you --
2 because I can answer you what you are
3 saying. We went to Court and you didn't say
4 anything. You were filing as a private
5 citizen and the taxpayers are paying for it.
6 MS. GATELLI: No, they are not.
7 MS. FRANUS: Yes, they are.
8 MS. GATELLI: No, they are not.
9 MS. FRANUS: Okay. Well --
10 MS. GATELLI: They are not paying for
11 the private action, and I was sued first,
12 Mrs. Franus. It's a countersuit.
13 MS. FRANUS: But here's my point --
14 MS. GATELLI: They are not paying my
15 private lawsuit. No, they are not.
16 MS. FRANUS: Way back then --
17 MS. GATELLI: You are lying again.
18 MS. FRANUS: I'm not lying.
19 MS. GATELLI: You are lying because
20 it's not true.
21 MS. FRANUS: Well, maybe it isn't,
22 but we will find out. Maybe I'm wrong and I
23 will find out.
24 MS. GATELLI: Well --
25 MS. FRANUS: I may even admit that.
1 That could be true.
2 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Minora will tell
3 you, you can't pay for a private action.
4 MS. FRANUS: Okay, that's fine.
5 MS. GATELLI: Not true.
6 MS. FRANUS: Okay. I'll go along
7 with that, but my point is this, all those
8 things that were said in that website that
9 you had so distraught they are still saying
10 them on the website every day --
11 MS. GATELLI: No, they are not. No,
12 they are not.
13 MS. FRANUS: Well --
14 MS. GATELLI: They don't have guns on
15 there with heads blowing off.
16 MS. FRANUS: That's just an avatar.
17 MS. GATELLI: I don't have any more
18 broken windshields and I have no more flat
20 MS. FRANUS: The people still feel
21 the same way about you, Judy.
22 MS. GATELLI: Yes, I know, and you
23 probably one of the posters on there.
24 MS. FRANUS: Well, there we go.
25 MS. GATELLI: So you are defending
1 bullying people.
2 MS. FRANUS: This is freedom of
4 MS. GATELLI: You are defending
5 bullying people.
6 MS. FRANUS: I'm defending freedom of
8 MS. GATELLI: Douglas said about
9 bullies, well, that was what happened to
10 me --
11 MS. FRANUS: See, this is what you --
12 MS. GATELLI: And people came to the
13 podium to the defend that. They thought it
14 was okay to have a gun on there blowing my
15 head off.
16 MS. FRANUS: And you were blowing
17 that out of proportion. It's an --
18 MS. GATELLI: No, I'm not.
19 MS. FRANUS: Yes, you are. The
20 avatar is on there, that doesn't mean
21 anything. That doesn't mean anything.
22 MS. GATELLI: Well, the district
23 attorney and the chief of police thought it
25 MS. FRANUS: Well, they are all
1 wrong. These are avatars. There is other
2 avatars on there that --
3 MS. GATELLI: I know. Everyone is
5 MS. FRANUS: No, you are wrong.
6 MS. GATELLI: Everyone is wrong.
7 MS. FRANUS: You are the reason we
8 had the 25 percent increase in the NCC where
9 people may lose their homes --
10 MS. GATELLI: The city budget is
11 only 17 percent. The school board --
12 MS. FRANUS: Judy, how about NCC
13 that you voted for and people may lose their
14 homes for.
15 MS. GATELLI: People -- no one lost
16 their homes.
17 MS. FRANUS: Doesn't mean they're not
18 going to. How about the lines that they
19 painted because you voted for that?
20 MS. GATELLI: No one has lost their
21 homes. You are lying again, Mrs. Franus.
22 Why are you lying?
23 MS. FRANUS: I'm an --
24 MS. GATELLI: -- is that why you're
1 MS. FRANUS: I'm not lying.
2 (Whereupon part of the following
3 exchange between Mrs. Gatelli and Mrs.
4 Franus became unreportable.)
5 MS. GATELLI: Why are you
6 discrediting me --
7 MS. FRANUS: You know --
8 MS. GATELLI: You discredit me in
9 this community --
10 MS. FRANUS: Because --
11 MS. GATELLI: I volunteered for 28
12 years of my life --
13 MS. FRANUS: Janet Evans and Gary
14 DiBileo --
15 MS. GATELLI: -- because you say so
16 about me --
17 MS. FRANUS: -- every part they went
18 to you sit up on the stage and griped your
19 hands with them.
20 MS. GATELLI: I would have been --
21 (Whereupon the exchange between Mrs.
22 Gatelli and Mrs. Franus became
24 MS. GATELLI: They are liars.
25 MS. FRANUS: And you are liar because
1 you said you were with Janet and Gary and
2 you never were. You were with Mayor Doherty
3 all along. You just wanted to get the
5 MS. GATELLI: No, I wasn't. No, I
7 MR. FRANUS: You want to see the
8 videos of any of those parties?
9 MS. GATELLI: I'm on my own, Mrs.
11 MS. FRANUS: Then why were you at
12 every at party with Janet and Gary?
13 MS. GATELLI: I was --
14 MS. FRANUS: You weren't there then.
15 MS. GATELLI: The commercial --
16 MS. FRANUS: But you voted for
17 everything Mayor Doherty wanted.
18 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, because it helps
19 the community.
20 MS. FRANUS: Raising the taxes is
21 helping the community when you had 12
22 million dollars in the --
23 MS. GATELLI: -- 55 a month --
24 MS. FRANUS: But you got a service,
25 Mrs. Gatelli. You got a service. You are
1 getting water for that money. What are we
2 getting for the taxes that we are paying?
3 Nothing. That you give us. You. 25
4 percent and the NCC and everything else, all
5 of the borrowing, and what about that, Mrs.
7 MS. GATELLI: How about all of the
8 money that Mr. DiBileo borrowed.
9 MS. FRANUS: What kind of service --
11 MS. GATELLI: Mr. DiBileo. He
12 borrowed a lot of money.
13 MS. FRANUS: I'm talking about you.
14 I'm not saying that was right.
15 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, I know you are
16 talking about me.
17 MS. FRANUS: Gary DiBileo should not
18 have done that either and I agree.
19 MS. GATELLI: Well, he did?
20 MS. FRANUS: Well, and he shouldn't
21 have and I absolutely agree.
22 MS. GATELLI: He was here a lot
23 longer than I was.
24 MS. FRANUS: And I agree with you.
25 MS. GATELLI: And Mr. Courtright
1 borrowed it, to.
2 MS. FRANUS: And you should not have
3 either. I agree completely. None of you
4 should have, and I don't think you should
5 have ever been elected.
6 MS. GATELLI: The federal government
7 shouldn't borrow it either, I guess.
8 MS. FRANUS: No, we are talking
9 about the city where I live. We --
10 MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Mrs. Franus.
11 MS. FRANUS: But Mr. Dave Gervasi
12 spoke for a long time after --
13 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.
14 MS. FRANUS: And this woman Phyllis
15 talked after, but there is another example,
16 of the way you ware. Every time there's a
17 ruckus you say, you're done now, but
18 everybody else can speak as long as they
19 want. That's just an example of your
20 rudeness to people. That's just the Judy is
21 back. The sugar and lightness is gone.
22 Thank God the real Judy Gatelli is shining
23 through again. This is what the people need
24 to see before they go to vote so they will
25 not vote for you.
1 MS. GATELLI: They know who you are
2 working for, Mrs. Franus.
3 MS. FRANUS: I'm not working for
4 anyone but myself and my tax bill? What?
5 MS. GATELLI: They know that you are
6 told to come here and do this. Thank you
7 very much.
8 MS. FRANUS: Nobody makes me do
9 anything, Mrs. Gatelli.
10 MS. GATELLI: Thank you very much.
11 Mr. Ancherani, it's your turn.
12 MS. FRANUS: Thank you very much.
13 MS. GARVEY: I'm sorry to interrupt,
14 but if we can please be considerate of the
15 court reporter that's here trying to take
16 the minutes so she can't keep up.
17 MR. ANCHERANI: Good evening. Nelson
18 Ancherani, First Amendment rights. Last
19 week Ms. Fanucci made your statement and I
20 have to admit my head is still spinning. I
21 had to get council minutes just to see what
22 I missed during her remarks. I had intended
23 to rebut her statements line by line, but it
24 had me confused. I figured I would pick out
25 what I thought she was talking about. She
1 said something about we are not going to be
2 okay, that we should be running for our
3 lives. She said that twice. I think she
4 was trying to say that we, the police and
5 fire, are using scare tactics and it is like
6 it was four years ago during the election
7 year. Crime did increase in four years, it
8 got worse. It's reality. Who is trying to
9 scare who? We don't live in the land of
10 make believe, we live in Scranton, the city
11 with approximately $300 million long-term
13 Evidently, Mrs. Fanucci was not
14 listening when Mr. Gervasi read from
15 numerous slime's articles where our mayor
16 said he was going to reduce the fire
17 department personnel and close two fire
18 houses or engine companies and build
19 superstations. The excerpts are from the
20 last eight years. How are they scare
21 tactics now? They are reality. People
22 should be concerned. Close the firehouse in
23 your neighborhood and it will increase the
24 time it takes for fire apparatus to get to a
25 fire in that neighborhood. It will also
1 drive your fire insurance up.
2 There is a reason there is a
3 question on your fire insurance policy
4 asking how far away your home is from a fire
5 hydrant or fire station. Again, that is not
6 scare tactics that is reality. Reality.
7 And after a certain day in May I believe you
8 will see for yourselves.
9 And should I look into the camera
10 when I say that like Mrs. Fanucci does it's
11 not scare tactics it's reality. As for the
12 rest of what Ms. Fanucci said I'm really
13 dizzy from trying to understand it.
14 MS. FANUCCI: It's okay. You'll
16 MS. ANCHERANI: We used to have a
17 riddler on the police force, but I believe
18 the riddler was transferred to council. I
19 will pick what I thought she was referring
20 to and talk about that. As for her many
21 figures on a health care copays, they are
22 all lower than what we are paying now. A
23 family plan is up to $110 from $34 a pay. A
24 300 percent increase.
25 MS. FANUCCI: I gave a weekly. I
1 gave a weekly.
2 MR. ANCHERANI: Single is up to 31
3 from $8 a pay -- it still doesn't match it,
4 from $8 a pay. A 400 percent increase in
5 husband and wife is up to 44 from $4.50 a
6 pay, an $1,100 increase -- I'm sorry,
7 1,100 percent increase. She showed me a
8 paper with figures on it, but they did not
9 match what we are paying. I don't know
10 where you got those figures from since we,
11 the police union, have been trying to get
12 them from the city since 2003. It appears
13 the city just grabbed figures out of the
14 air, but they are no good since the Health
15 Care Committee hasn't met before the city
16 came up with their figures.
17 With the high figures the city is
18 using, it only convinces me that the city is
19 trying to get the active workers to pay the
20 retired person's health care which is the
21 city's responsibility. You have to admit,
22 she has a way of distracting us away from
23 the issues like how are we going to make up
24 that 5.5 million plugged into our 2009
25 budget from the Single Tax Office. Will our
1 taxes be raised 25 percent by Ms. Fanucci,
2 Mrs. Gatelli and Mr. McGoff? What about the
3 missing two million from the Single Tax
4 Office? Why were 23 accounts merged into a
5 single account? Isn't that breaking a state
6 law and what is the being done about it? Is
7 the city asking for a formal investigation
8 into the missing money and why state law has
9 been violated with the combining of the
11 Has the district attorney been asked
12 to investigate? Has the Attorney General
13 been asked to investigate since state law
14 has been violated? Where is the fiduciary
15 responsibility of these parties when it
16 comes down to protecting the city taxpayers
17 who have been subjected to a 250 percent tax
18 increase which we still continue to pay all
19 of the while 12.2 million was hidden in this
20 account. Taxpayers deserve answers. But,
21 no, they demand answers. Thank you.
22 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else? Mrs.
24 MS. FANUCCI: Yes. Obviously, I'm
25 going to take off where Mr. Ancherani left
1 off for us and, no, it's not a gotcha. It
2 is the facts and I am presenting exactly
3 what I received as facts and that is what
4 I'm going to do.
5 So, the fact is that, yes, we did
6 not settle our contracts, but the unions did
7 get to use their existing contracts for
8 seven years while we were in litigation.
9 The arbitration they got to use included
10 some of these benefits, and I'm going to
11 read some of these:
12 The actual overtime costs, and I'm
13 going to do this again for 2007, was
14 $621,649.38. Overtime in 2008, $712,350.33.
15 I'll write this down for you. Te contracts
16 that these -- that have been complaining
17 about were good contracts. That's why they
18 stuck around. They didn't fight because
19 they were a bad contract, and I will look in
20 the camera any time I want to look into the
21 camera because I'm speaking to everyone out
22 there not just the people in this room.
23 This is about the taxpayers and it's their
24 money. It's their money, not just the ten
25 people who come here, so I will speak to
1 them all of the time.
2 The salary plus overtime plus
3 longevity, longevity pay is 2 percent every
4 two years you get 2 percent of your salary
5 added on.
6 MR. GERVASI: One.
7 MS. FANUCCI: That happens -- it's 1
8 percent every year, but you don't get it
9 until it's 2 percent which is the two years.
10 MS. GERVASI: One percent every two
12 MS. FANUCCI: One percent every two
14 MR. GERVASI: Please.
15 MS. GATELLI: Excuse me.
16 MS. FANUCCI: Okay, let's go into the
17 figures because they really want to -- so
18 let's do this. Let's go, okay. If you're a
19 deputy chief and you work for the fire
20 department your base salary might be
21 $42,498.83. With your overtime pay, with an
22 average now, this is just an average, you
23 are making an extra $1,850.68 as an average
24 overtime pay. Your average longevity for
25 your deputy chief is $4,430.45. If we take
1 together our base wage, well, no, let's not
2 even talk about base wage, let's just do
3 overtime and longevity, you are getting
4 $6,236.13 over your base pay. There is only
5 one deputy chief.
6 So let's go to an assistant chief,
7 assistant chief with an average overtime pay
8 and an average longevity pay they are making
9 $8,000 -- 8,363.56, that's with overtime and
10 longevity. There are four of them.
11 Fire inspectors, there are two of
12 them. Their average overtime pay $1,244.10,
13 let's add that with their longevity
14 $4,209.26 for an average of $5,453.36.
15 So, my theory is you are at home,
16 yes, they did not get a cost of living
17 increase. It's terrible. It's awful, but
18 would you consider an extra $5,000 or $4,000
19 or $6,000 in your pay extra money?
20 Longevity is just for the amount of time
21 that you have been here. There is no other
22 reason for it. Overtime I could see. You
23 work overtime, but also remember in these
24 contracts when you work overtime because of
25 the contracts we can't as a city cut costs
1 like you could in a business. Why? Because
2 in the contracts you have to pay time and a
3 half or holiday time for every overtime.
4 Now, in an outside business you can
5 say, "et's have a part-timer come in. Let's
6 have them come in, it won't cost us health
7 care insurance and it also won't cost us
8 quite as much money because we won't have to
9 pay time and a half."
10 You can't do that here. This is why
11 our overtime is $700,000 and that is why --
12 MR. GERVASI: It's $700,000 because
13 they got rid of people.
14 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Gervasi.
15 MS. FANUCCI: Well, you're --
16 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Gervasi --
17 MR. GERVASI: I'm not going to sit
18 here, Mrs. Gatelli, and listen to her lie
19 and Lisa Moran is --
20 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Gervasi, you are
21 out of the order.
22 MR. GERVASI: The overtime is
23 $700,000 because --
24 MS. GATELLI: Please -
25 MR. GERVASI: -- because they laid
1 off --
2 MS. GATELLI: Please, Mr. Gervasi.
3 MR. GERVASI: -- they laid off 50
5 MS. FANUCCI: This is what they want,
6 the fear tactics.
7 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Gervasi, please.
8 MS. FANUCCI: This is in the
9 contract, this is not made up. It certainly
10 isn't something I pulled out of my hat -- -
11 MR. GERVASI: The state did it.
12 MS. FANUCCI: This is where ---
13 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Gervasi, please.
14 MS. FANUCCI: This is where this was
15 worth the fight on both sides, so when you
16 are out there and you're feeling bad for one
17 side or the other, I had said this from day
18 one this fight was not ending until we got
19 at the end of the rope which was in Court.
20 Why? There was two much on both sides. Am
21 I saying it's wrong? No. Am I saying you
22 don't deserve it? No. But I'm saying it
23 was going to be a fight and it was going to
24 be a dog fight and whether or not you feel
25 bad and you think the administration is
1 right or you think the firefighters are
2 right this was not ending until we got to
3 the end of the rope. Now we are there. Now
4 there is a contract, right, a Court-ordered
5 contact. You don't see the litigation
6 stopping. You don't see the fighting
7 stopping. You didn't see anybody saying,
8 you know what, now we are making more money
9 and plus we still are doing okay because,
10 you, know when you look at the salaries they
11 are making more money now. You don't see
12 anybody stopping, it's still in Court.
13 MR. GERVASI: Because the city is in
15 MS. FANUCCI: It is still in court.
16 MR. GERVASI: Because the city is in
18 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Gervasi.
19 MS. FANUCCI: And it will not stop
20 until it's at the last level. All I am
21 saying is if you think that this is one side
22 or another you are absolutely wrong. These
23 are huge figures. This is a lot of money
24 and that is why this fight will continue.
25 That's it. Like it or not.
1 Week after week I hear everybody
2 blaming the health care, oh, now it's the
3 consultant, right? We have the wrong
4 consultant, this is the money we were saving
5 whatever. Health care has gone up so much
6 for every person at home. Every single
7 person knows that they are working for their
8 health care. That's it. If they could keep
9 their family covered they are happy. So if
10 you honestly believe that that -- in a big
11 city that we are going to honestly think
12 that this health care should be down to $5
13 or $11 is too much to pay a pay people would
14 be thrilled at home to pay $11 a pay to have
15 health care. Thrilled to death. So whether
16 you like it or not, you can come up here and
17 you can bash me all you want, you can yell,
18 you can say my fingers aren't good, whatever
19 you want to do, because you know you are
20 going to do it because you have to do it.
21 You have been doing it for eight years. You
22 have to keep to doing it. It's okay.
23 MR. GERVASI: Maybe --
24 MS. FANUCCI: We understand why. We
25 understand why. When you come up they're
1 facts, when everybody comes up they're
3 MR. GERVASI: You're wrong.
4 MS. FANUCCI: So I'm going to make a
5 motion today that we get Stu Renda in here
6 to come in, sit down with all of the
7 figures, show us exactly what's been going
8 on since day one. I want to know what
9 people make, overtime, what they're doing,
10 how much health care is and I want it all
11 displayed here, and I don't care when it
12 happens, I don't care if it's in the next
13 two weeks or the next four weeks, whenever
14 we could do it. I'd like to have a Power
15 Point presentation if he can put it together
16 so people at home can watch it on TV and
17 then we'll put an end to this he said, she
18 said, they said, whatever because it is out
19 of control.
20 And when you have people come up
21 here like we have tonight and, Fay, I'm not
22 sure you are going to be here next week
23 after I talk about you, it was obviously
24 political. She went in a whole speech about
25 somebody who are ran, who ran with them,
1 when they decided to change their mind and
2 how your loyalty should be. It's not about
3 loyalty, it's about belief systems and it's
4 about working together and whether you like
5 it or not she could have ran with me, she
6 could have ran with Bill, but at the end of
7 it all you need to work with whoever is here
8 to get what's needed to be done for the
9 people who are out there. Saying no all of
10 the time does not help one person, not one
11 person in this city. Saying no, no, no, no,
12 no all it is is a standstill, so you are
13 wrong by believing that your council should
14 be sitting hear saying no to everything
15 because the only people who are going to
16 suffer are your taxpayers. You need to sit
17 down and battle it out and decide a good
18 reason and good way to proceed and a good
19 cure and that's what it's about.
20 So when you are up here every week
21 saying, "You should stop this, you should
22 stop that," no. No. You shouldn't stop
23 anything. You should try to work it out and
24 find a way to help the people out there. I
25 can't imagine that after all of this time
1 that we are still going to talk about who
2 ran with who and who did what and who said
3 what. People are out there, they are
4 suffering. They need jobs. Whether you
5 like the type of jobs they have we need
6 them. If it's a coffee shop, if it's a
7 flower shop, we need every job in this city
8 so that people can go and work, so they can
9 take care of their families. Look around
10 this country. People cannot support their
11 families. For some reason you think we are
12 any different than anyone else. The
13 difference is we are actually working and we
14 have people who are going to work. That's
15 the difference. Maybe our -- you know, we
16 are not where we need to be, I agree we will
17 never be where we need to be, but at least
18 we are trying and we are working hard and
19 making jobs. Whether they are not high
20 enough for you, I agree. I would love to
21 get everybody -- I would love everybody in
22 the city to get a $100,000 job a year I wish
23 we could, but reality is that is not the way
24 life is. People cannot all -- aren't
25 qualified for $100,000 a year job. I
1 certainly am not. People aren't. So you
2 take a job at the level you are qualified
3 for. The thing is we need to make sure they
4 are here.
5 You can come up and bash me every
6 week, you know, on the website which I love
7 that actually people come up and defend this
8 website that does nothing but say how bad we
9 are anonymously, you know, hiding behind
10 their little fake names and saying, you
11 know, this one or that one last week they
12 were -- from what I've heard because I won't
13 go on anymore, but they bashed my family for
14 being strong women. Bashed my family. The
15 Skatinos are bad people. Their women should
16 take their meatballs and go home was a quote
17 on this website that all of the union
18 leaders get up and talk about like it's a
19 good thing. Every one of you on this
20 website talking about my family.
21 MR. GERVASI: I never talk about
22 your family.
23 MS. FANUCCI: You are the only --
24 Nancy did. Ancherani quotes it --
25 MR. GERVASI: You --
1 MS. FANUCCI: Just because you don't
2 talk about it --
3 MR. GERVASI: Please stop talking for
4 just a minute.
5 MS. FANUCCI: Kiss them in the back
6 room. Come on, enough is enough. I'll play
7 your game, but on this website they said you
8 all of these things about my family who have
9 been in small business here their whole
10 entire lives, their whole entire lives.
11 Entrepreneurs. Every one of them had
12 businesses in this city and they love this
13 city and they love the people here and
14 that's why I have been doing what I have
15 been doing. That's why I put up with all of
16 this week after week. They said we should
17 take our meatballs and go home. You know
18 why they said that because they don't have a
19 set of their own. They don't. They hide
20 behind their fake names and they go on their
21 website and they talk to each other back and
22 forth and they talk to themselves and they
23 do nothing about spawn hate and constantly,
24 constantly say negative things about people
25 in this city. Everyone. There isn't anyone
1 they spare, so it's not like they get along,
2 they only get along with each other.
3 I am not -- yes. You, too. Yes.
4 You, too. You have been on there and you
5 have talked about it, also so don't look
6 confused. You have been there also, you
7 have talked about it on here putting up with
8 the website and thinking it's a good thing.
9 MS. HUMPHRIES: No, I don't know how
10 to you use the website.
11 MS. FANUCCI: I'm not talking about
12 you, Phyllis. So this is what is going to
13 happen for the next few weeks. This is your
14 wonderful council in session, but I am
15 telling you right now I'm not going to stop
16 saying what I need to say. I am very happy
17 with what I'm saying. I'm telling you facts
18 that aren't really pretty facts sometimes
19 and when you are sitting home a lot of these
20 facts aren't going to make you feel real
21 comfortable because you don't have these
22 options. You don't have this. You don't
23 have this -- you don't have longevity pay.
24 You don't get an extra $4,000 in your
25 paycheck just for being there. I certainly
1 don't either. So I understand that this is
2 going to be a tough ride, and I'm sorry that
3 it has to be this way, but it is what it is.
4 It's time for all of the truth to come out
5 not just some of it. Thank you.
6 MR. MINORA: Excuse me. Excuse me,
7 Mrs. Fanucci, you started to make a motion
8 about Mr. Renda.
9 MS. FANUCCI: I'm sorry. Yes. That
10 Mr. Renda comes in and then he does a
11 presentation on what the salaries are, what
12 the health care cost is, what it was, and
13 what it is now and how much we are paying a
14 city per person and how much the people are
16 MS. GATELLI: I'll second that
18 MS. FANUCCI: Thank you.
19 MS. GATELLI: On the question?
20 MR. COURTRIGHT: On the question, I
21 think Mr. Renda coming in, just Mr. Renda,
22 isn't going to solve anything. I think if
23 Mr. Renda is going to come in you are going
24 to have three unions and their
25 representatives --
1 MS. FANUCCI: Why? They are tax --
2 the had time to speak on --
3 MR. COURTRIGHT: It's my turn to talk
5 MS. FANUCCI: Okay. Go ahead.
6 MR. COURTRIGHT: Because he is going
7 to come in and say anything, and then they
8 are going the next week and say he is wrong,
9 if we are going to have them in let's have
10 all sides in, let them do their
11 presentation, give them whatever minutes
12 they need. Give Mr. Renda twenty minutes,
13 allow the union twenty minutes if they are
14 going to do a power point, let them do a
15 power point, because Mr. Renda is going to
16 come in and say something and we all know
17 what he says they are going to dispute.
18 MS. FANUCCI: Well, facts are facts
19 and figures are in the budget. I mean,
20 logically --
21 MR. COURTRIGHT: Well, that's his
22 interpretation, and, no, I've heard facts
23 and their interpretation, so let's be fair.
24 MS. FANUCCI: All right. Well, wait,
25 let me ask you this, Bill, we weren't fair
1 when we had them come in the last two times
2 by themselves. They came in, we had the
3 union representative come in and speak and
4 give a whole presentation and we didn't have
5 Stu here.
6 MS. GATELLI: Twice he came.
7 MS. FANUCCI: Twice he came. Twice.
8 MR. COURTRIGHT: I just think it's
9 not fair.
10 MS. FANUCCI: So why is that any
11 different? Why is this any different? I'm
12 looking for figures. I'm looking for facts,
13 what is paid out. We are not talking about
14 a he said, she said. They know what they
15 pay. So we had them in here twice. We had
16 them in here twice, let's have Stu and maybe
17 he can come twice and then we'll have the
18 union back again.
19 MR. COURTRIGHT: I just don't think
20 it's going to accomplish anything if we have
21 just the one side here and that's my
23 MS. FANUCCI: Well, we have already
24 done that so now --
25 MR. COURTRIGHT: Okay. Have the
2 MS. FANUCCI: Okay.
3 MS. GATELLI: All in favor?
4 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
5 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed?
6 MR. COURTRIGHT: No. I don't know
7 where to start here. I had brought up a few
8 weeks back that I had several complaints
9 about Washburn Street. I think I mentioned
10 before that last year we had several roads
11 paved because the utilities tore them up and
12 they are obligated to pave the entire road
13 if they tear up a certain percentage and
14 they paved Washburn Street, the full length
15 of it, it was coming apart in the center
16 where they seamed it, so I spoke to the
17 pave -- I think that's his title, right, the
18 pave cut inspector and they've tarred the
19 entire length of Washburn Street in the
20 center and I hope that rectifies it and so
21 I'm happy that something got done here.
22 I was scanning through the channels
23 on Easter Sunday when I got home from my
24 mom's house and the school board meeting was
25 on and somebody asked Mr. Gilbride, who is
1 the president of the school board, asked him
2 a question about the audit that was done
3 and, okay, so Mr. Jackowitz is saying it was
4 him, if I'm incorrect then you can correct
5 me, I believe he asked him if when
6 Mr. Gilbride gave his authorization to pay
7 for this audit he didn't believe it was a
8 forensic audit and Mr. Gilbride said that he
9 paid for a forensic audit. So that prompted
10 me to call Mr. Renda, and I called Mr. Renda
11 and he called me back and I asked Mr. Renda
12 the question -- that question. I said,
13 "When you signed off or whatever you had to
14 do to pay for this audit, did you believe it
15 was a forensic audit?"
16 And he said, "Yes. That's what the
17 city thought they were paying for was a
18 forensic audit."
19 I said, "Well, when did you find out
20 it wasn't a forensic audit?"
21 And he said the day they went down
22 to the meeting at the solicitor's office
23 with Mr. McGovern, Mr. McGoff and
24 Mrs. Garvey he had gone down there.
25 And I said, "Well, you know, the
1 papers quotes that the tax office as saying
2 it wasn't a forensic audit, it was merely a
3 ringing catch phrase."
4 And I told Mr. Renda that I -- I
5 was-- and I haven't talked to the county so
6 I can't speak for the county, I assume we
7 spoke -- or listened to the school district
8 and spoke to the city and, you know, I said
9 I don't think it's fair that we paid for
10 something and, you know, say we bought a
11 vehicle and we paid for the options on that
12 vehicle and we paid the price for the
13 options and we didn't get them, so I don't
14 know that it's fair that we pay for
15 something we didn't get, and I don't believe
16 that she should continue to pay for it.
17 So, I'll try to contact
18 Mr. Gilbride, I only saw him on TV and I'll
19 try to contact Mr. Renda to see are we
20 continuing to pay because the newspaper said
21 that I believe it's $134,000 and counting,
22 so evidently we are paying more. But, if
23 both of those gentleman signed off on paying
24 for a forensic audit then we should have
25 gotten a forensic audit and, obviously, we
2 Moving on, I stopped at Keyser
3 Valley Community Center last week, they were
4 having a meeting, and something was brought
5 to my attention. I saw Amil left, but maybe
6 Kay can ask him for me, they are telling me
7 something that I wasn't aware of that if you
8 hold a function where you need a police
9 officer at your function like a dance or
10 something to that affect, that you can pay
11 the city for the police officer, which we
12 always have, but they are saying there is an
13 administrative fee attached to it now that I
14 have no knowledge of an administrative fee,
15 and the question that I wanted to ask
16 Mr. Minora because it was asked of me and I
17 don't know the answer to this is if they
18 attached an administrative fee to it -- to
19 the cost of the officer did legislation or
20 should have legislation gone through city
21 council if you are attaching a fee to
22 something. I'm guessing maybe it should
23 have, I don't know, so maybe we can ask
24 Mr. Minora that. And then also, Kay, if you
25 could do me a favor and I guess it would be
1 to Dave Elliott ask him if there, in fact,
2 an administrative fee because that was the
3 first I heard about it was that night. I
4 was not aware of that, so if there isn't one
5 then we don't need the answer from
6 Mr. Minora I guess, but if there is one I
7 certainly would like to have that answer.
8 So much went on here tonight I can't
9 remember everything, but I know at some
10 point in time somebody talked about the
11 University of Scranton, and I'd like to say
12 this, I asked this for all of the years I
13 have been there and I don't think it will
14 ever happened, but I'll ask it again that
15 the University of Scranton gives some kind
16 of a break, either free tuition or a break
17 on the tuition to the people that live in
18 this city, to the people that live in the
19 city and families that have been paying the
20 taxes all these years, give them some kind
21 of a break. I really think that that would
22 go a long way with the citizens of this
23 city. I think it's gotten to the point
24 where the price is so high a lot of people
25 in this city can't afford to go there, so
1 some kind of break, I would think, if your
2 family has been a resident here for "X"
3 amount of years, I think it's warranted. I
4 know I worked at Trane Corporation for years
5 and when they closed down one of my buddies
6 moved to Carolina because I believe if you
7 were a residents there for a year you went
8 to their state school for free, so I'd like
9 to see the University do something,
10 something to help out the people and it's
11 not to benefit my children, they will be
12 long gone from college by then, but
13 everybody else that lives here and suffers
14 throughout hard times that we have had here.
15 And the zoo, I have to agree with
16 Mr. Ellman. I think, yeah, you keep going
17 back to a zoo and it's something you go back
18 to time and time again. I don't think the
19 city can afford a zoo. I would like to see
20 maybe the county get involved and maybe
21 partner with the city or -- the county has a
22 lot more resources than the city does and
23 maybe partner with the city and let's have a
24 zoo up there because I think it is something
25 that people would come here to see and the
1 main reason I say the county also is because
2 people enjoy whether it's the Genesis
3 Wildlife or whatever was there before from
4 the entire county, not just the city, but we
5 are stuck paying a lot of the bills that
6 people from outside of the city enjoy, so
7 maybe the county would entertain something
8 like that and take a look and see if they
9 can help us out if it's feasible. If they
10 even have the money, I don't know.
11 And one last thing somebody
12 mentioned about, you know, firefighters just
13 sitting at the firehouse, well, I got to be
14 honest with you, I hope that every single
15 day of every year the firefighters are doing
16 nothing but sitting at the firehouse because
17 then that means somebody's house isn't on
18 fire and to me that's a good thing, and I'll
19 end it with that. Thank you.
20 MS. GATELLI: Thank you,
21 Mr. Courtright. Well, we talked about
22 having people come here and I read in an
23 e-mail this week that we got from the tax
24 office that they would be willing to come
25 here and explain some more of the details of
1 the tax report I'll call it since it really
2 wasn't an audit, so I would like to ask Kay
3 to have them come here possibly next week to
4 meet with council.
5 MS. GARVEY: Any time?
6 MS. GATELLI: I'd say probably 5:30
7 so we will have adequate time to ask any of
8 the questions that we can come up with for
9 them when they get here.
10 I met yesterday with Representative
11 Ken Smith and the residents of Meadow
12 Avenue. If you haven't realized for the
13 past 12 years they are been trying to get
14 sound barriers in this area of Harmond field
15 for Route 81. Over that 12-year period many
16 people have promised that we would get sound
17 barriers and for some reason PennDOT always
18 redirected the money to a different project.
19 If you should go to the Meadow Avenue area
20 and sit on anyone's porch there you would
21 hear the loud tractor trailers going by and
22 the great amount of traffic that has
23 increased on Route 81 over the years and the
24 smell of diesel fuel is rather obnoxious, so
25 Representative Smith has been working on
1 that project and he came to one of the homes
2 there and we were informed that Congressman
3 Kanjorski would like to do a project in the
4 area and was very interested in the sound
5 barriers using some of the stimulus money
6 for Pennsylvania, so I would like to make a
7 motion that we send a letter to
8 Representative Smith and to Congressman
9 Kanjorski supporting the project of sound
10 barriers for the Meadow Avenue area.
11 MS. FANUCCI: I second that.
12 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All
13 in favor? Aye.
14 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
15 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
16 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. I got
17 another e-mail from a gentleman who has a
18 Boy Scout Troop, I'm probably going to say
19 the wrong Boy Scout Troop, but I think it's
20 Hickory Street, and he said that as much as
21 people come here and say that there is a
22 bridge to nowhere up at Nay Aug, that the
23 bridge does go somewhere. It goes to the
24 other side and on the other side is where
25 the Boy Scout Troop has cleared it out and
1 they spend evenings there in their tents and
2 do some of their projects, so the Boy Scouts
3 and the Boy Scout leader are very thrilled
4 about the bridge and they are going to be a
5 lot more work up there this summer, so he
6 wanted to me to report that.
7 I'd like to apologize for my
8 behavior this evening, but Mrs. Franus
9 certainly knows how to push my buttons and I
10 was told that the last few weeks before the
11 election she is going to come here and push
12 my buttons and she did, and I let her so I
13 will try to control myself, but for those of
14 you at home it is very difficult when you
15 are sitting here and you have to listen to
16 things that aren't true especially when it
17 had involved other family members.
18 Now, the website certainly had a gun
19 on it and it certainly had a head blowing
20 off. You can go back in the archives and
21 read the newspaper and find out what it was
22 all about. The district attorney was
23 notified. I was very frightened, yes, I
24 will admit, something like that had never
25 happened to me and it was bullying that's
1 all it was and I didn't realize it at the
2 time and I was very scared. I had a
3 windshield broken, I had flattened tires,
4 sometimes I was followed. I was talked
5 about on the website, called all kinds of
6 vulgar names. My children, my grandson who
7 is six years old was on there, it is
8 despicable, and for people to come up here
9 and say that's a wonderful thing you should
10 be ashamed of yourselves every one of you.
11 Police officers come up here that are
12 supposed to be protecting me and you and
13 everyone else and they defend this website
14 where people are desecrated. Their lives
15 are desecrated behind names of people that
16 are anonymous. Well, aren't you brave. All
17 of you that write on there you are very
18 brave. You cowards. Come here and say it.
19 I have never done that in my life. I say
20 what I think to your face and any of you
21 that know me know that. I will tell you
22 what I think to your face. I don't have to
23 go on a computer and call you a whore and
24 call your daughters -- that your daughters
25 have oral sex with people, that's
2 So, come up here and keep saying how
3 wonderful it is and keep kissing everyone
4 back there when they come here and putting
5 your little notes around giving them to
6 people to tell them what to say when they
7 get up here.
8 I have only been here three years.
9 There were people here before me that could
10 have done and could have changed things,
11 they had the majority then and they didn't
12 to it. They borrowed money just like I did.
13 They borrowed a lot of money. How do you
14 think you are going to survive in a
15 community without borrowing money in this
16 day and age? We can't go bankrupt because
17 they will raise the taxes out of the roof.
18 They won't go up $55, they will go up $555.
19 We only get 17 percent of your tax dollar.
20 The rest goes to the school district and to
21 the county and I don't see anybody going
22 there complaining. Why not? Why do they
23 only come here? And why is it election
24 time? Why don't we examining all of the
25 candidates running for office, and I think
1 the newspaper it would behoove them to
2 inspect criminal records of the candidates
3 because some of them have criminal records,
4 and we can start there.
5 I sat here and I did the best job I
6 could. I tried to do what I thought was
7 right for the community and for my
8 neighborhoods and I have been doing that for
9 all of my adult life, and I know you don't
10 like to hear that, but I'm very proud of
11 that. I'm very proud that I volunteered my
12 time for my community. Can you say the same
13 thing, that you have done for your community
14 for 28 years for no pay at all? I never got
15 paid. Never at all. I'm getting paid now
16 for what I do up here, it's not a lot of
17 money, but it helps and I donate a lot of it
18 to charity and I'm proud of that, too.
19 And I'll keep fighting for my
20 neighborhood and I'll keep fighting the
21 slumlords that don't pay their taxes, and
22 I'll keep fighting the drug houses and the
23 illegal apartment conversions and I'll keep
24 doing that even if I don't win. I will keep
25 fighting for my community no matter how many
1 times you come up here and try to down me.
2 I have a reputation in my community and I
3 love the people here and whoever is the
4 mayor here I would work with, whoever it is.
5 Whoever wins the election I will sit here
6 and I will work with. I won't be a
7 obstructionist and say, "Well, I wasn't on
8 his ticket or I didn't help him, I'm not
9 going to do whatever he wants, I'm going to
10 go against him all of the time."
11 No, I'm not going to do that.
12 Whoever is the mayor I will work with so the
13 community can move forward, not just for my
14 own agenda because my agenda will be the
15 same even if I'm not here, and you can laugh
16 all you want, Mrs. Krake, just keep on
18 MR. GERVASI: We are talking about
19 something else.
20 MS. GATELLI: Because that's all you
21 guys do is laugh and kibitz in the back and
22 the camera doesn't see that. They don't see
23 what we have to see from up here and it is
24 very, very difficult. A very difficult job
25 to be on city council to be abused and
1 harassed on a continual basis.
2 MS. FANUCCI: Only some of us.
3 MS. GATELLI: Only some of us, you
4 are right. So Mrs. Franus can come here
5 every week until election time and harass
6 me, that's okay. That's perfectly all
7 right, but I'm going to keep on doing what
8 I'm doing for the good of my community, and
9 I have always fought for firemen to keep my
10 firehouse open and I have always fought for
11 police officers on the street, so if they
12 tell you that I didn't they are lying about
13 that, too. Go get all of the papers and
14 read them and see who fought for your
15 neighborhood fire station, and I did it
16 again a couple of weeks ago even though they
17 come here and criticize me I voted for it
18 anyhow because that's what I believe in and
19 it's hard to vote for what you believe in
20 when they are coming here and harassing you.
21 You want to vote against them because it's
22 not nice to go and do that to people. Not
23 nice at all. Thank you. Mrs. Garvey?
24 MS. GARVEY: FIFTH ORDER. 5-B. FOR
25 INTRODUCTION - A RESOLUTION - AUTHORIZING
1 THE MAYOR AND OTHER APPROPRIATE CITY
2 OFFICIALS TO EXECUTE AND ENTER INTO A
3 COOPERATIVE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF
4 SCRANTON, DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND RECREATION
5 ("ORGANIZATION") AND THE LACKAWANNA COUNTY
6 DEPARTMENT OF ARTS AND CULTURE ("ARTS AND
7 CULTURE") AND LACKAWANNA COUNTY CHILDREN AND
8 YOUTH SERVICES ("LCCYS") IN FURTHERANCE OF
9 THE MISSION OF THE ARTS ENGAGE! PROGRAM.
10 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll
11 entertain a motion that Item 5-B be
12 introduced into it's committee.
13 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.
14 MS. FANUCCI: Second.
15 MS. GATELLI: On the question. All
16 those in favor? Aye.
17 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
18 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
19 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? The ayes have
20 it so moved.
21 MS. GARVEY: SIXTH ORDER. 6-A.
22 READING BY TITLE - FILE OF COUNCIL NO. 62,
23 2009 - AN ORDINANCE - CREATING AND
24 ESTABLISHING SPECIAL CITY ACCOUNT NO.
25 02.229590 ENTITLED "A.R.T.S. ENGAGE! GRANT"
1 FOR THE RECEIPT AND DISBURSEMENT OF GRANT
2 FUNDS FROM LACKAWANNA COUNTY CHILDREN AND
3 YOUTH SERVICES AND DEPARTMENT OF ARTS AND
4 CULTURE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND
5 RECREATION CITY OF SCRANTON POOL MURALS
7 MS. GATELLI: You have heard reading
8 by title of Item 6-A, what is your pleasure?
9 MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item 6-A
10 pass reading my title.
11 MS. FANUCCI: Second.
12 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All
13 those in favor? Aye.
14 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
15 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
16 MS. GATELLI: The ayes have it and so
18 MS. GARVEY: 6-B. READING BY TITLE -
19 FILE OF COUNCIL NO. 63, 2009 - AN ORDINANCE
20 - AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND OTHER
21 APPROPRIATE OFFICIALS OF THE CITY OF
22 SCRANTON TO ACCEPT AND DISBURSE GRANT FUNDS
23 FROM LACKAWANNA COUNTY CHILDREN AND YOUTH
24 SERVICES AND DEPARTMENT OF ARTS AND CULTURE
25 A.R.T.S. ENGAGE! GRANT IN THE AMOUNT OF
1 $34,100.00 FOR THE CITY OF SCRANTON
2 DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND RECREATION POOL
3 MURALS PROGRAM.
4 MS. GATELLI: You have heard reading
5 by title of Item 6-B, what is your pleasure?
6 MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item
7 6-B pass reading by title.
8 MS. FANUCCI: Second.
9 MS. GATELLI: On the question?
10 MR. COURTRIGHT: On the question,
11 Mrs. Garvey, I know Mrs. Evans raised some
12 questions on this last week and I can't
13 remember what they were, but someone had
14 mentioned sometimes to me when we have
15 nonprofits, I don't know to get the
16 hospitals mad at me, such as a hospital that
17 the CEO makes an exorbitant amount of money,
18 can we just see what the salary is for
19 whoever? I'm not even quite sure, what's
20 the name of this group?
21 MS. GATELLI: It's Children and
22 Youth, Lackawanna County Children and Youth.
23 MR. COURTRIGHT: Is that who it's
24 going through?
25 MS. GATELLI: Yes.
1 MS. FANUCCI: Yes.
2 MR. COURTRIGHT: Is there another
3 organization? Is it just Children and
5 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, Children and
6 Youth for both, for all of these. Arts
7 Engaged Program. I'm sure they are going to
8 get --
9 MR. COURTRIGHT: So Children and
10 Youth governs the arts --
11 MS. GATELLI: Yes.
12 MR. COURTRIGHT: -- program, they
13 will be running it?
14 MS. GATELLI: Yes, through the
16 MR. COURTRIGHT: Then I don't need to
17 ask that question the, I'm sorry.
18 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else on the
19 question? All in favor?
20 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
21 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
22 MS GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes
23 have it and so moved. Motion to adjourn.
24 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.
25 MS. GARVEY: Seventh order there was
1 no business.
2 MS. GATELLI: Motion to adjourn.
3 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.
3 C E R T I F I C A T E
5 I hereby certify that the proceedings and
6 evidence are contained fully and accurately in the
7 notes of testimony taken by me at the hearing of the
8 above-captioned matter and that the foregoing is a true
9 and correct transcript of the same to the best of my
CATHENE S. NARDOZZI, RPR
14 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER