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1 SCRANTON CITY COUNCIL
PUBLIC HEARING
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5
IN RE: FILE OF COUNCIL NO. 71, 2006 - AUTHORIZING THE
6 VACATION OF A PORTION OF THE RIGHT OF WAY KNOWN AS
GORGE STREET CONSISTING OF AN AREA 165 FEET LONG AND 26
7 FEET WIDE IN THE CITY OF SCRANTON, AS MORE PARTICULARLY
DESCRIBED ON THE MAP ATTACHED HERETO.
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Held:
12 Thursday, January 4, 2007
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14
15 Time:
6:15 p.m.
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18
Location:
19 Council Chambers
Scranton City Hall
20 340 North Washington Avenue
Scranton, Pennsylvania
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24 Lisa M. Graff, RMR
Court Reporter
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1 CITY OF SCRANTON COUNCIL:
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3 MS. JUDY GATELLI, COUNCIL PRESIDENT
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5 MR. WILLIAM COURTRIGHT, VICE-PRESIDENT
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7
MS. SHERRY NEALON FANUCCI
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9
MR. ROBERT MCGOFF
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MR. AMIL MINORA, ESQUIRE, SOLICITOR
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MS. KAY GARVEY, CITY CLERK
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MS. SUSAN MAGNOTTA, ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
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1 MS. GATELLI: I'd like to call this
2 public hearing to order. Roll call.
3 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mrs. Evans. Mrs.
4 Fanucci.
5 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Here.
6 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mr. McGoff.
7 MR. MCGOFF: Here.
8 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mr. Courtright.
9 MR. COURTRIGHT: Here.
10 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mrs. Gatelli.
11 MS. GATELLI: Here. The purpose of
12 the public hearing is to hear testimony and
13 discuss the following:
14 FILE OF COUNCIL NO. 71, 2006 -
15 AUTHORIZING THE VACATION OF A PORTION OF THE
16 RIGHT OF WAY KNOWN AS GORGE STREET
17 CONSISTING OF AN AREA 165 FEET LONG AND 26
18 FEET WIDE IN THE CITY OF SCRANTON, AS MORE
19 PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED ON THE MAP ATTACHED
20 HERETO.
21 Is there anyone interested in
22 speaking at this public hearing? Let the
23 record reflect that there are no speakers.
24 I now declare this public hearing closed.
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2
3 I hereby certify that the proceedings and
4 evidence are contained fully and accurately in the
5 notes taken by me on the hearing of the above cause and
6 that this copy is a correct transcript of the same
7 to the best of my ability.
8
9
10
LISA M. GRAFF, RMR
11 Official Court Reporter
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1 SCRANTON CITY COUNCIL MEETING
2
3
4
5 Held:
6 Thursday, January 4, 2007
7
8
9 Time:
10 6:30 p.m.
11
12
13 Location:
14 Council Chambers
15 Scranton City Hall
16 340 North Washington Avenue
17 Scranton, Pennsylvania
18
19
20
21
22
23 Lisa M. Graff, RMR
24 Court Reporter
25
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1 CITY OF SCRANTON COUNCIL:
2
3
4 MS. JUDY GATELLI, COUNCIL PRESIDENT
5
6 MR. WILLIAM COURTRIGHT, VICE-PRESIDENT
7
8 MS. JANET EVANS
9
10 MS. SHERRY NEALON FANUCCI
11
12 MR. ROBERT MCGOFF
13
14 MR. AMIL MINORA, ESQUIRE, SOLICITOR
15
16 MS. KAY GARVEY, CITY CLERK
17
18 MS. SUSAN, MAGNOTTA, ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
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1 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Please stand
2 for the Pledge Of Allegiance. Please remain
3 standing for a moment of reflection. Roll
4 call.
5 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mrs. Evans.
6 MS. EVANS: Here.
7 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mrs. Fanucci.
8 MS. FANUCCI: Here.
9 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mr. McGoff.
10 MR. MCGOFF: Here.
11 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mr. Courtright.
12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Here.
13 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mrs. Gatelli.
14 MS. GATELLI: Here. Dispense with
15 the reading of the minutes.
16 MS. GARVEY: Third order. 3-A,
17 AGENDA FOR THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
18 MEETING HELD ON DECEMBER 19, 2006.
19 MS. GATELLI: Are there any
20 comments? If not, received and filed.
21 MS. GARVEY: 3-B, AGENDA FOR THE
22 ZONING HEARING BOARD MEETING HELD ON
23 DECEMBER 13, 2006.
24 MS. GATELLI: Are there any
25 comments? If not, received and filed.
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1 MS. GARVEY: 3-C, ACCEPTING A
2 DONATION RECEIVED FROM THE CHRISTIAN SCIENCE
3 SOCIETY OF LACKAWANNA COUNTY TO THE CITY OF
4 SCRANTON FIRE DEPARTMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF
5 $100.00 TO BE DEPOSITED TO SPECIAL CITY
6 ACCOUNT #02.229544 (FIRE DEPARTMENT
7 DONATIONS.)
8 MS. GATELLI: Are there any
9 comments? If not, received and filed.
10 MS. GARVEY: 3-D, APPLICATIONS AND
11 DECISIONS RENDERED BY THE ZONING HEARING
12 BOARD MEETING HELD ON DECEMBER 13, 2006.
13 MS. GATELLI: Are there any
14 comments? If not, received and filed.
15 MS. GARVEY: 3-E, CONTROLLER'S
16 REPORT FOR THE MONTH ENDING NOVEMBER 30,
17 2006.
18 MS. GATELLI: Are there any
19 comments? If not, received and filed.
20 MS. GARVEY: 3-F, MINUTES OF THE
21 NON-UNIFORM PENSION BOARD MEETING HELD ON
22 NOVEMBER 15, 2006.
23 MS. GATELLI: Are there any
24 comments? If not, received and filed.
25 MS. GARVEY: 3-G, AGENDA FOR THE
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1 NON-UNIFORM MUNICIPAL PENSION BOARD MEETING
2 HELD ON NOVEMBER 15, 2006.
3 MS. GATELLI: Are there any
4 comments? If not, received and filed.
5 MS. GARVEY: 3-H, MINUTES OF THE
6 FIREMEN'S PENSION COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON
7 NOVEMBER 15, 2006.
8 MS. GATELLI: Are there any
9 comments? If not, received an filed.
10 MS. GARVEY: 3-I, MINUTES OF THE
11 SCRANTON POLICE PENSION COMMISSION MEETING
12 HELD ON NOVEMBER 15, 2006.
13 MS. GATELLI: Are there any
14 comments? If not, received and filed.
15 MS. GARVEY: 3-J, AGENDA FOR THE
16 ZONING HEARING BOARD MEETING TO BE HELD ON
17 JANUARY 10, 2007.
18 MS. GATELLI: Are there any
19 comments? If not, received and filed.
20 MS. GARVEY: That's all I have.
21 MS. GATELLI: Before we start the
22 meeting, I just have a few items to discuss.
23 First of all, I'd like to wish everyone a
24 very happy, healthy and prosperous new year.
25 I received a phone call last evening
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1 from a George Gulla, and he reminded me that
2 on Sunday, January 7, it is Christmas for
3 all of the eastern orthodox faith according
4 to the Julian calendar, so Council would
5 like to offer our Merry Christmas
6 congratulations to all of those of that
7 particular faith.
8 I'd like to also congratulate the
9 new state representatives, Ken Smith and
10 Frank Shimkus. I had the pleasure of being
11 invited to Mr. Smith's swearing in in
12 Harrisburg. It certainly was a wonderful,
13 wonderful experience, and I know that he's
14 going to do a good job.
15 Also today Senator Bob Casey was
16 sworn in in the City of Washington, so we
17 have our hometown boy, who I'm sure is going
18 to help us along the way. So,
19 congratulations to all three of those
20 candidates, and we hope that they have a
21 successful tenure. And if there's any way
22 we can help them or they can help us. They
23 have offered their assistance in any way.
24 The Miners football team will be
25 making an announcement on January 10 at
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1 three o'clock at the Uno Fitness. And
2 they're a minor league football team located
3 in Lackawanna County.
4 In attendance will be Donny Jackson
5 Bay. He's a minor league football legend
6 and he plans to carry the ball in 2007 for
7 The Miners. So, that's on January the 10th.
8 I also got a notice from -- E-mail
9 when there was a fire on the 15th of
10 December, and one of our city employees,
11 Gary Frances, helped to pull the people out
12 of the burning trailer.
13 So, I think that it would, even
14 though it wasn't in Scranton, I think that
15 maybe Council should recognize Mr. Frances
16 with a proclamation. So, Kay, you can
17 arrange that.
18 Also, I received a letter from a
19 woman up on West Market Street, and I'm
20 going to give it to Kay to send to Mr.
21 Parker. She was having a problem in the
22 back. People have encroached on a city
23 property on the court, and we haven't been
24 very successful. So, I'm going to ask Kay
25 to write a letter on this woman's behalf.
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1 I'll pass this to Council so they can see
2 what it is.
3 Also, if you can ask Mr. Parker to
4 send us a letter of items that are picked up
5 with the regular garbage every week, items
6 that they do pick up, because people over
7 the holiday had some problems getting
8 couches and things picked up.
9 When they called they said, yes, we
10 will pick up one large item a week, but then
11 they never picked it up for three weeks.
12 So, if you can ask Mr. Parker to give us a
13 list of items that will be picked up on a
14 regular basis and then maybe we can have The
15 Scranton Times put it in the newspaper.
16 Also, the Christmas trees will be
17 picked up, and that schedule is going to be
18 in later in the week.
19 Also, just one more thing, I got a
20 request from a senior citizen that spoke to
21 Comcast, the new Adelphia provider, and they
22 said that if Council requested that there be
23 a senior citizen discount, that they will
24 look into.
25 So, I don't know if that's true, but
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1 we'll certainly send a letter on behalf of
2 City Council. I won't make a motion. We'll
3 just all send it for City Council. No one
4 is, I don't think, will object to that, and
5 see if they're telling the truth.
6 That's what they told the woman, so
7 I told her that we will try to get a
8 discount for the senior citizens. I'd like
9 a discount for everybody, to tell you the
10 truth. And that's all I have. Does anyone
11 else have anything they'd like to say at
12 this time?
13 MS. EVANS: Mrs. Gatelli, do we need
14 a motion to send the official letter to
15 Channel 61 about the rearrangement of their
16 equipment or can we just send the letter?
17 MS. GATELLI: I think we will just
18 send it. Mrs. Garvey will just send it.
19 MS. EVANS: Okay.
20 MS. GATELLI: We were all in
21 agreement. In our caucus, what Mrs. Evans
22 is talking about, is Channel 61 cannot stay
23 in that room in the back because they're
24 going to be putting the new vents in there
25 for the air conditioning and the heating,
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1 and Council has agreed to allow them to use
2 a portion of the balcony to set up whatever
3 they need to film the Council meetings and
4 the taxpayers meetings and whatever other
5 meetings occur in this chambers. So, we are
6 sending a letter to that effect, just so
7 you're aware. Okay. The first speaker is
8 Douglas Miller.
9 MR. MILLER: Good evening, Council.
10 Doug Miller. Last Thursday the Junior
11 Council, along with Mr. Bob Bolus and Mr.
12 Lee Morgan presented a check for our share
13 of the proceeds with totalled $640 that we
14 raised at our breakfast with Santa held at
15 Scooter's Hot Dawg Hut on December 2.
16 We all came as a body in support of
17 Channel 61. Some of us even worked the
18 phone banks. We understand the importance
19 of keeping our channel of communication
20 running, and we as a community need to come
21 together and reach out to Channel 61 and
22 support them.
23 My question to this Council tonight
24 is that I understand the administration is
25 putting Channel 61 out of city hall because
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1 of renovations in the back room and in the
2 governor's room, but I believe a year or so
3 ago those two rooms were renovated.
4 And just my question would be, is
5 Council going to permit this to happen? And
6 I can see it is, from what I heard just now,
7 that you will be sending a letter telling
8 them they have to leave the room.
9 I just hope this isn't the
10 administration trying to stifle the
11 information to the people that we receive
12 through Channel 61.
13 This past week I came across an
14 editorial in The Times entitled, Fun Channel
15 61, and it goes on to say that groups of
16 people have hijacked the station for self
17 fame and they operate on a political agenda.
18 My response to this is that if it
19 weren't for Channel 61, nobody would be
20 truly informed on what is going on in this
21 city.
22 And we, as citizens, have the right
23 to come to this podium and express our
24 thought on issues.
25 And at times, some people might not
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1 want to hear what you have to say, but
2 that's what makes this country so wonderful
3 is that we can come up here and say what we
4 feel is on our minds.
5 It also goes on to encourage
6 agencies, business, et cetera, to make a
7 contribution towards Channel 61.
8 My question to that would be, Has
9 the Lynett or Haggerty family made any
10 contribution to Channel 61? Maybe somebody
11 on Council can get an answer for me. I'd be
12 very interested to know that.
13 Moving on, on December 25, the 11th
14 annual Bob Bolus, Sr. Christmas Day dinner
15 took place at St. Lucy's Church in West
16 Side. Many people, including myself, were
17 there serving people, and it was great to
18 see all the smiles on people's faces and to
19 know that they had a place to go for
20 Christmas.
21 Mr. Bolus asked me to personally
22 thank Mrs. Gatelli, Mr. Courtright and Mrs.
23 Novembrino and all those who volunteered,
24 but more importantly those who shared in the
25 festivities.
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1 It was a great success that served
2 over 2,000 people. That counts over 800
3 take-out dinners that were distributed.
4 And after that, there was no point
5 in counting any more. So, again, thank you.
6 Lastly tonight regarding the smoking
7 ban, I would like to comment on this issue
8 briefly.
9 Again, as I have stated in the past,
10 I strongly support this ban because of the
11 serious health issues, and I understand that
12 many people against the ban have a difficult
13 time understanding that.
14 This past week an article in The
15 Times stated that business owners will not
16 enforce the ban. It should be adhered to
17 because the law is the law, and according to
18 what I've learned from my teachers, if you
19 disobey the law, you are penalized.
20 And I'd like to ask this Council
21 tonight to consider making a motion to send
22 a letter to Governor Rendell and all the
23 newly elected state representatives asking
24 them to consider a statewide ban. I think
25 it's time we take this to the next level, so
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1 I would hope you would please consider that.
2 You know, about 24 percent of
3 Pennsylvanians smoke and they have no right
4 to put the 76 percent of non-smokers' health
5 at risk. Thank you.
6 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Bill
7 Jackowitz.
8 MR. JACKOWITZ: Bill Jackowitz,
9 South Scranton resident, taxpayer, retired
10 United States Air Force.
11 I would like to welcome everyone
12 back for the 2007 version of Scranton city
13 government at work. The ACLU of
14 Pennsylvania's mission is to protect the
15 Bill of Rights.
16 According to Mary Catherine Roper,
17 staff attorney for the American Civil
18 Liberties Union of Pennsylvania, the mission
19 of her organization is to assure that the
20 Bill of Rights and The Constitution of The
21 United States reserve for the working people
22 of the nation.
23 During an interview she said the
24 ACLU was founded to protect the average
25 American citizens from government officials
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1 responding to reactionary groups that wanted
2 to set limits on the Bill of Rights.
3 Speaking for myself, my experience
4 in life has always shown that if you have a
5 question, you ask that question.
6 My parents, teachers, coaches and
7 supervisors have always told me, If you do
8 not know something or do not understand, ask
9 somebody. On several occasions I have not
10 followed that advice and ended up making a
11 mistake.
12 During my education process and
13 training for different positions in the
14 workforce, I was encouraged to ask questions
15 in order to seek knowledge and understanding
16 of the process.
17 I have been told on several
18 occasions, The only dumb question is the one
19 you do not ask. Only stupid people do not
20 ask questions.
21 Then I relocate back to Scranton,
22 Pennsylvania and become involved in local
23 city government by participating as a
24 citizen and a speaker at City Council
25 meetings.
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1 In the past year and a half, I
2 personally have used 80 hours of my vacation
3 time to address City Council and Mayor
4 Doherty with my concerns.
5 Mayor Doherty was nice enough to
6 grant me a 30-minute meeting November 2005.
7 I asked ten questions, received one answer.
8 I have stood at this podium many a
9 night and have asked what I feel are
10 pertinent questions pertaining to Scranton
11 city government.
12 For the most part I have been
13 ignored, laughed at by certain Council
14 members, heard sarcastic and rude comments
15 mumbled by certain Council members after
16 leaving the podium. The tapes of the
17 meetings bear witness to that.
18 So I ask myself this question, What
19 does a person do? My answer, Continue to
20 speak at Council meetings ask questions.
21 My belief is that will be the only
22 way that I can have a better understanding
23 of the working of Scranton city government.
24 The answer I do not know is not an
25 acceptable answer. Let the citizens have
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1 their say as long as it's on city business,
2 bob McGoff, 17 December '06. I agree with
3 you, Bob.
4 Speaking from myself, I spent
5 20 years of my life in the United States Air
6 Force so that I and every American citizen
7 can have their say about whatever they want
8 to say, especially when the citizens are the
9 people paying the salaries and the bills.
10 If I am going to be denied my right
11 as an American citizen to challenge my
12 elected and appointed officials, leaders,
13 then do not ask me to pay your salaries and
14 perks. No one can have it both ways.
15 Voting your conscience. I say, vote
16 what is good for the city, not your
17 conscience.
18 In the immoral words of Paul Revere,
19 The British are coming, Rodney King, Why
20 can't we all just get along, Sergeant
21 Schultz, I know nothing, nothing, nothing,
22 and James Carvelle, It's the economy,
23 stupid.
24 Vote for the people, not your
25 conscience. Your wallet may be larger than
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1 mine.
2 Thank you founding fathers of the
3 United States for allowing me to speak
4 tonight and every day and every night.
5 2007, the year of the people of Scranton.
6 Thank you.
7 MS. GATELLI: Andy Sbaraglia.
8 MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia,
9 citizen of Scranton. Fellow Scrantonians, a
10 few words on the downgrading of the city
11 finances.
12 Wall Street has downgraded this city
13 to BB status, which is junk on the verge of
14 collapse.
15 And they did that with -- the paper
16 printed it, of course, right after you voted
17 for the mayor's budget.
18 But the main thing is, certain
19 people are responsible for the finances of
20 the city, they are the mayor, the business
21 manager, and Council.
22 All of you have a share in the
23 demise of the city financing. There's no
24 way out of it.
25 Your votes have pushed the city
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1 deeper and deeper into final abyss, and
2 there's no way out. There really isn't.
3 Even Wall Street now figures we're going to
4 default. That's how bad it is.
5 You had an opportunity before you
6 voted on the mayor's budget to actually go
7 through everything in that budget and throw
8 out what you couldn't throw out.
9 That was your requirement. You
10 didn't do it, and because of what you did,
11 our bond rating was dropped, whether it was
12 done before, after or in between, but
13 apparently they mustn't know what was going
14 to happen, because they were ready to throw
15 it -- lower our bond rating.
16 We got money that's invested, like
17 they said, non-rated bonds. Nobody is --
18 comes up here and asks how much money are we
19 paying for the Casey Garage. That money
20 comes out of, you know, out of the money
21 that was allocated for the parking fees.
22 Mr. Courtright, you remember that
23 deal way back when when we mortgaged our
24 parking. They quoted that.
25 They quoted, also, the unrated bonds
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1 we used for the DPW site going back and
2 forth, back and forth, back and forth.
3 These are the reasons our bonds are
4 lower. Now you put a burden upon the city
5 if we have to borrow money. We now have to
6 borrow at a greater amount or pay for some
7 type of a guarantee, like we did when we
8 borrowed the $72.
9 That AAA we got wasn't -- the city
10 wasn't AAA at that time either, but because
11 we were willing to pay a million for the
12 bonds guarantee, they were willing to do it.
13 Now, if we should ever default on
14 any of them loans, of course, we would
15 really, really be in trouble.
16 But that's the same, and you -- I
17 mean, there's nothing you can do about it.
18 This year is down the tubes, all of '07.
19 What you may do in '08, he wants, of
20 course, to add more taxes onto the people of
21 Scranton, which he probably will get, too,
22 because I don't see any reason why if it
23 went through this time, it shouldn't go
24 through next time.
25 But it's sad, it's real sad, and you
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1 let the city fall into such financial abyss.
2 Now, a word on the pension. I'm not
3 going to bring up -- the courts have decided
4 that, of course, Mr. Pocius and Mr. Hazzouri
5 is entitled to a pension, even though none
6 of you are entitled to a pension, because
7 they upheld the city charter saying they
8 weren't entitled to a pension.
9 But because some quirk or collusion
10 or whatever it was that allowed them to get
11 onto that, somebody is at fault and somebody
12 should be brought up to task.
13 There's no reason these men should
14 have gotten a pension, and the only reason
15 they got it is because certain people wanted
16 them to get a pension.
17 That brings up the voting. When a
18 person that wasn't entitled to a pension
19 gets a pension, then it brings up a motive.
20 Why should they get a pension when
21 none of you are required to get a pension?
22 But there was a motive.
23 It just so happens I have that
24 ordinance that they signed in 1999, where
25 there was supposedly after ten years to get
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1 certified, but, of course, you know the Home
2 Rule Charter goes in front of that.
3 But somebody should be held
4 responsible. We should look into it and
5 find out how these men were certified to get
6 a pension, and them were the people that
7 should be held accountable.
8 If there was any -- anything that
9 was done that was not above board, then they
10 should be held, they should either ask to
11 resign --
12 MR. MINORA: That's five minutes.
13 MR. SBARAGLIA: -- or be brought up
14 on charges. Thank you.
15 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Ozzie
16 Quinn.
17 MR. QUINN: Good evening. My name
18 is Robert Ozzie Quinn. I'm the President of
19 The Scranton-Lackawanna County Taxpayers and
20 Citizens Association, Incorporated.
21 I'm a former, whether you know it or
22 not, athlete, not to be arrogant, but
23 lettered baseball and basketball at the
24 University of Scranton, and after I finished
25 baseball, after a certain time, you go into
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1 softball, and you get a lot of camaraderie
2 amongst your fellow people throughout the
3 area, okay?
4 I still meet people on the streets.
5 Bob would know that. Bob participated that
6 and was a very good athlete at South
7 Catholic High School and progressed through
8 The University.
9 And why I'm here tonight is the fact
10 because I'm very concerned about now that
11 the sale of the South Side Complex has been
12 -- gone through.
13 I'm concerned about the fact that
14 there are no more softball fields or
15 baseball fields in the City of Scranton, and
16 that leads me to the point where last month
17 you past a budget, and in that budget you
18 gave $1.5 million from the sale of the
19 Scranton Municipal Golf Course, the former
20 Scranton Municipal, to offset an increase in
21 recording of deeds in the county, okay,
22 which is very commending of you, because
23 that way I think it's going to keep people
24 from not buying Scranton for buying in
25 Scranton or not buying in Scranton.
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1 However, I researched the deed, and
2 in the deed it only mentioned the fact that
3 it was sold to a firm from Pottsville, and
4 also it noted that the Council -- the then
5 former Council of 2002 past the final
6 ordinance on November 11, 2002.
7 And I went to -- proceeded to the
8 City Clerk's office to find out if I could
9 look at that ordinance because of the fact
10 it was not recorded in the Recorder of Deeds
11 office.
12 There was only one person at the
13 office at that time because of the fact of
14 the holidays, which is understandable;
15 however, that person could not find the
16 ordinance.
17 However, I was told that after the
18 holidays, when you come back -- when they
19 come back to work on Tuesday, I would either
20 get a copy of the ordinance, I would be
21 given a phone call or E-mail it, they would
22 scan it and E-mail it to me. That never
23 happened.
24 On Wednesday, I called again. Never
25 happened, okay? So, here I am. It's
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1 Thursday, all right?
2 Now, I'm looking for the ordinance
3 because of the fact -- I don't want to
4 proceed through the Taxpayers Association
5 under The Right to Know Act or The Freedom
6 of Information Act because it gets you into
7 litigation.
8 I don't think as a taxpayer I should
9 be able to proceed in that way of spending
10 money or you spending our money to fight us,
11 okay?
12 So, I would -- probably
13 inadvertently the person wasn't able to get
14 it to me, okay, I'm not going to accuse the
15 person, okay?
16 So, therefore, I went to archives of
17 the Scranton Times and I came up with the
18 City Council meeting -- the reading -- the
19 article that appeared on November 22, 2002
20 regarding the municipal golf course
21 ordinance being adopted by the City Council
22 at that time.
23 And I want to quote, okay, I'm not
24 going to use the person's name, as far as --
25 Although some residents spoke against the
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1 golf course, Councilman said, It seems the
2 perfect time to sell the course. I think
3 there should be some big competition from
4 the new golf course planned in Dickson City.
5 That never happened.
6 The money we get will be put
7 directly in city parks, directly in city
8 parks. I don't see the downside of this,
9 okay?
10 So, that led me to believe there
11 must be an -- in the ordinance there must be
12 something indicating from this article that
13 that money that you used for the $1.5
14 million, probably inadvertently was used to
15 fill the gap in the mayor's budget for the
16 recording of the deeds.
17 And I would ask you, Madame Gatelli,
18 President Gatelli, if you would have
19 Attorney Minora look at that ordinance,
20 okay, and see if there's anything that
21 prohibits the use of that money into other
22 than recreation.
23 We haven't any ball fields now. The
24 mayor's promised ball fields, and I have no,
25 as I said, being a former ball player, I
.
27
1 know just how important it is when you're a
2 certain age to get out there and play ball
3 amongst -- competitively, okay? And I'm not
4 accusing anybody of --
5 MR. MINORA: Five minutes.
6 MR. QUINN: Madame Gatelli, if I
7 may, one more minute, please, if I could, I
8 want to finish something.
9 MS. GATELLI: Ozzie, I'm going to
10 say no, because I've gotten complaints from
11 the people that do sit down after five
12 minutes, that I let others go.
13 MR. QUINN: Okay.
14 MS. GATELLI: So, you can call with
15 your other questions.
16 MR. QUINN: Okay.
17 MS. GATELLI: And I will have
18 Attorney Minora investigate that ordinance.
19 MS. GARVEY: Mrs. Gatelli, if I
20 could just for one minute just to direct to
21 Mr. Quinn, I know that Neil did bring to my
22 attention that Ozzie was looking for certain
23 information and Neil has been working on
24 that.
25 And he wasn't here in work today and
.
28
1 is not here tonight, and I know on his desk
2 there were several ordinances that he must
3 have been looking up to try to give to Mr.
4 Quinn. So, exactly how far he's gotten on
5 that, I don't know, but he is researching
6 that for him.
7 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Tell him thank
8 you. And if you find a copy, give it to
9 Attorney Minora also.
10 MS. GARVEY: Okay.
11 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Spindler.
12 MR. SPINDLER: Good evening,
13 Council, Les Spindler, city resident. I
14 want to wish everyone on Council a Happy New
15 Year.
16 Now, Mrs. Gatelli, you're going to
17 treat all speakers equally this year,
18 because I was appalled at the last meeting
19 before you went on break that you had Mrs.
20 Franus taken out of here by the policemen,
21 and yet other speakers could come up here
22 and say whatever they want and nothing is
23 done.
24 For example, a few meetings before
25 you took a break, a person was up here and
.
29
1 made a blatant ethnic comment and nothing
2 was said to that person.
3 At the last meeting there was
4 another speaker, I won't mention their name,
5 but they were totally out of control and
6 they went as far as saying a curse, which I
7 heard on TV, I couldn't make the meeting,
8 and nothing else was said there. So, I hope
9 everybody's treated equally as speakers this
10 year, because it seems like some people are
11 treated more fairly than others.
12 Next thing, now, Mrs. Gatelli, can I
13 ask Mrs. Fanucci a question? It's about
14 PEL.
15 MS. GATELLI: Yes.
16 MR. SPINDLER: Okay. Mrs. Fanucci,
17 under Mayor Connors, PEL would not let the
18 mayor have a public safety director.
19 Now, since 2002, Mr. Doherty has a
20 public safety director, a secretary, and now
21 we have an assistant public safety director.
22 How do you explain that when Mayor Connors
23 could not have one?
24 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I can't speak
25 for PEL.
.
30
1 MR. SPINDLER: Don't you work with
2 them?
3 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: No, I don't
4 work with them. I sit in on sessions that
5 have to do with the city, not their
6 administrative policies.
7 Like, I can't comment on what -- why
8 they decided what was good or not good, I
9 really can't.
10 MR. SPINDLER: Would you be able to
11 find that answer out?
12 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I can ask them.
13 Yeah, I can definitely put that in a letter
14 and see what they come up with, if you'd
15 like me to do that.
16 MR. SPINDLER: Okay. Thank you.
17 Okay. A few weeks ago on the news I saw
18 where Stefan Marberry of the New York Knicks
19 and Steve & Barry's contributed sneakers to
20 the West Side Intermediate Boys Basketball
21 Team, and Mayor Doherty went on to say that
22 if the team wins 60 percent of their games,
23 he'll give $100,000 to fix their gym floor.
24 Well, first of all, I think that's
25 outrageous to put pressure on pre-teenage
.
31
1 kids to win 60 percent of their games, and
2 where is that $100,000 coming from?
3 I think that should be a school
4 board issue, not a city issue. The school
5 board should be fixing the gym, not the
6 city. That's all I have to say on that
7 subject.
8 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Mr. Spindler, I
9 could actually address that for you, if
10 you'd like me to. I -- myself --
11 MR. SPINDLER: Could you say it
12 after I'm done because I want my time.
13 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Oh, absolutely.
14 MR. SPINDLER: Next thing, last week
15 in the paper, also, as Doug mentioned, I saw
16 about the smoking ban, that all bar owners
17 aren't going to enforce it. I think that's
18 outrageous that you made a law like that to
19 make the bar owners not responsible.
20 So I don't miss anything, I just
21 want to read a letter to the editor that was
22 in the paper the other day in case everybody
23 didn't hear it.
24 I read in the paper that bar owners
25 are not responsible for enforcing the
.
32
1 smoking ban. It is the person smoking who
2 gets fined, not the bar owner. Once again,
3 Scranton City Council dropped the ball.
4 How can they make a law to ban
5 smoking and not make the owner take
6 responsibility?
7 All this is going to do is cause
8 more problems for the Scranton Police
9 Department. They're going to be more bar
10 fights than ever.
11 All t hat has to happen is for a
12 non-smoker to ask a smoker next to them not
13 to smoke, and more often than not, it's
14 going to end up in a fight.
15 Public Safety Director Ray Hayes
16 said we have law abiding citizens. Well,
17 I'm a law abiding citizen, but if I wasn't
18 told not to smoke in a bar, I would keep
19 smoking. City Council has to amend this
20 law, because as it stands now, it is
21 useless.
22 I have a question about that. Who
23 will enforce this law if the bar owner turns
24 his head? Because some bar owners have gone
25 public and said they're just going to turn
.
33
1 their heads if people were smoking. So,
2 what is the use of this law, Mrs. Gatelli?
3 MS. GATELLI: Would you like someone
4 to answer?
5 MR. SPINDLER: Yes.
6 MS. GATELLI: Are you done speaking
7 so we're not taking up your time?
8 MR. SPINDLER: Yes, I just asked,
9 yes.
10 MS. GATELLI: Attorney Minora, I
11 think you can address some of these
12 questions.
13 MR. MINORA: The law was drafted to
14 be broadly enforced by a number of different
15 city departments, including the police,
16 health department, a building inspector,
17 license -- I don't recall all the language,
18 but it was broadly drafted with all of that
19 in mind.
20 Obviously all it would take would be
21 a call to the police department, if someone
22 found someone else smoking in a bar.
23 It was not at the time drafted to
24 put the owness on the bar owners in the
25 hopes that it would be abided by by law
.
34
1 abiding citizens.
2 I don't know your person you're
3 quoting from who said he would continue to
4 smoke and call himself a law abiding
5 citizen. It seems to me to be a
6 contradiction in terms. You either abide it
7 or you don't, and that gentleman doesn't, so
8 I don't think he can call himself a law
9 abiding citizen.
10 Hopefully most people, I believe,
11 will do that. Those that don't will be
12 cited by whatever department or policeman is
13 called or see him doing this.
14 And if necessary, it's only a minor
15 amendment to put the owness on the bar
16 owners themselves should they fail to ask
17 their patrons not to smoke or should they
18 tolerate their patrons smoking.
19 Hopefully we wouldn't have to do
20 that and place it on them, but if need be,
21 it's not a very difficult amendment to do.
22 MR. SPINDLER: I think it should be
23 done. I'm not going to mention a name, but
24 I was in a local sports bar the other night,
25 I know the owner of that bar said he's going
.
35
1 to turn his head when he sees people
2 smoking.
3 MR. MINORA: Well, if he does and
4 people come in here and complain about it,
5 then it will be amended and then it will be
6 on him.
7 And that's the consequences of his
8 failure to ask his patrons to do what
9 they're supposed to do. It's very simple.
10 MR. SPINDLER: Well, if people are
11 smoking there and nobody says anything about
12 it, what's to stop them from doing it?
13 MR. MINORA: The non-smokers, we
14 feel, will say something about it. If
15 you're asking me will somebody hold a
16 smoking speakeasy like they did with beer
17 halls in the twenties? They'll just get
18 busted their own way.
19 MR. SPINDLER: All right. I think
20 it's going to cause a lot of problems,
21 because I know --
22 MR. MINORA: Well, it will cause
23 less problems than lung cancer, I'll tell
24 you that.
25 MR. SPINDLER: I understand. I'm
.
36
1 all for the ban, but I know somebody has a
2 few drinks in them and somebody tells them
3 to smoke, I've seen it. It's going to cause
4 fights.
5 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Mr. Spindler,
6 this is the same legislation that is in
7 Philadelphia, and for some reason, people in
8 Philly seem to have no problem complying
9 with it.
10 MR. SPINDLER: Unless I read wrong
11 in The Scranton Times, it says that
12 Philadelphia has the bar owners responsible.
13 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: No. The bar
14 owners were not responsible unless they have
15 cited -- unless they had cited a certain
16 amount of members in the bar first.
17 MR. SPINDLER: The Scranton Times
18 said last week in Philadelphia the bar
19 owners are responsible.
20 MR. MINORA: This is way beyond five
21 minutes now.
22 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Okay. Sorry.
23 MR. SPINDLER: Okay. Thank you.
24 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Rosemary
25 Gallagher.
.
37
1 MS. GALLAGHER: Good evening and
2 Happy New Year. My name is Rosemary
3 Gallagher. I'm a city resident and I'm a
4 taxpayer.
5 I came tonight to tell you about
6 something that Governor Rendell is about to
7 do, in fact, he's in the process of doing
8 that I think is going to be very dangerous
9 and very detrimental to the welfare of
10 everybody in the state, and of course we're
11 concerned about the people in Scranton.
12 I'm referring to his intent to lease
13 the Pennsylvania Turnpike to private
14 corporations for public corporations. But
15 at any rate, he's giving over the control of
16 the turnpike to these corporations.
17 He wants to do this through a
18 75-year lease, which I think is outrageous.
19 I'm 75, and I've gone through an awful lot
20 of changes in my life, and I'm sure the
21 corporation who is going to lease the
22 turnpike will do the same thing.
23 I think what is going to happen is
24 that any kind of trade or anything of the
25 sort that needs to use the turnpike will
.
38
1 have to pay additional fees. I'm sure
2 that's the first thing the company is going
3 to do, because they're in business, you
4 know, to make money.
5 And those costs will be passed on to
6 us. We saw this happen in the summer when
7 gas prices went through the roof, and it
8 really was a hardship on so many people.
9 We, the taxpayers, whose money built
10 the turnpike and whose money has maintained
11 the turnpike are the ones who are going to
12 be paying these escalated fees.
13 And you know yourself companies
14 today are merging, they're going into
15 bankruptcy, they have hostile takeovers and
16 so on, and what's going to happen to the
17 agreements that these companies make?
18 I just think this is a very
19 dangerous situation. I see that we're
20 losing more and more of our liberties, we're
21 losing more control over our lives, and, in
22 fact, it's very interesting that some of the
23 companies who responded to the governor's
24 requests to tell him how well they can
25 maintain or run a highway and so on are from
.
39
1 other countries.
2 So, it's inevitable that one of
3 these days they are going to control our
4 highways.
5 We are a very mobile community where
6 our whole society is always on the road, and
7 who controls travel controls. And I don't
8 think we should be controlled by a
9 corporation, at least because some of us
10 remember that we are a democracy and that we
11 have a representative form of government,
12 can at least approach our government and
13 say, you know, you shouldn't be really doing
14 this.
15 And the people do have power. Just
16 today we found out who the 57 new faces are
17 in Harrisburg because the people spoke, and
18 I think that we have to -- and so,
19 therefore, if the government continues to
20 own and run the turnpike, we can at least
21 appeal to them if we have the sense to do
22 that.
23 They will still own it, but it will
24 be run by whoever receives the lease. It's
25 very interesting that the state really
.
40
1 doesn't have any idea of the value of the
2 turnpike, so they've asked different
3 corporations to submit some kind of proposal
4 and say how they plan to run it and say what
5 expertise they have and so on and so forth.
6 But then the governor is going to
7 pick out several of these and use them as
8 consultants.
9 Now, you know how it is with
10 consultants. You can see a couple million
11 dollars going right down the drain right
12 there on the spot.
13 So, I'm asking you if you can do as
14 a body to maybe come up with a resolution
15 asking the governor to put that on hold or
16 just reconsider the whole thing.
17 But since all of you have some
18 following, you all have a high profile in
19 this area, I wish you would take actions as
20 individuals and encourage all your families
21 and friends.
22 I hope the people here will do the
23 same thing, I hope the people watching will
24 do the same thing.
25 But I just see very terrible things
.
41
1 happening. I know that we need money to
2 repair bridges. We're in the situation that
3 we are because the Pennsylvania Turnpike
4 Commission didn't use their heads when they
5 were spending money and didn't put aside
6 money to handle these contingencies.
7 If they would use -- run their
8 budget like we do and pay our bills, our
9 necessary bills and have a couple dollars
10 extra to pay other bills and other monies in
11 addition to handle these things, we wouldn't
12 be in this situation.
13 And I cannot believe that all these
14 bridges have to be taken care of all at
15 once. I'm sure that they are in different,
16 you know, stages of disrepair, and I
17 certainly would not want any kind of -- any
18 person in our Commonwealth or just visiting
19 to be --
20 MR. MINORA: Five minutes.
21 MS. GALLAGHER: -- in danger. But
22 if you would just do that, take action.
23 Tomorrow they'll all be home. Call their
24 offices.
25 And if you wouldn't mind, I just
.
42
1 want to tell you that John Blake, who is a
2 sterling person, is the governor's
3 representative for the northeast section,
4 and his number is 614-2090, 614-2090.
5 MS. GATELLI: Thank you very much.
6 MS. GALLAGHER: So, please tomorrow
7 get on the phone, call your legislators and
8 call John. Thank you so much for the
9 opportunity.
10 MS. GATELLI: Mike Dudek.
11 MR. DUDEK: My name is Mike Dudek,
12 608 Depot Street, Scranton, PA. And I want
13 to wish everybody a Happy New Year to one
14 and all.
15 Two items I want to bring to the
16 attention of City Council, somebody asked me
17 about this, and, Ms. Gatelli, I would like
18 to ask Mr. Courtright a question if it's
19 okay. Thanks.
20 Mr. Courtright, to my knowledge,
21 you're the only member of Council that runs
22 your own business, your karate school, and
23 you have a sign, you know, on your mirror or
24 on your door that advertises your business,
25 correct?
.
43
1 MR. COURTRIGHT: On the building I
2 have a sign.
3 MR. DUDEK: Right. Do you have to
4 pay a fee or a tax to the city for that?
5 MR. COURTRIGHT: I have to pay for a
6 sign permit, yes.
7 MR. DUDEK: Okay. Because I was
8 told that -- and I had no knowledge of that,
9 and I had absolutely no knowledge of it
10 until a friend of mine had told me that who
11 runs a business on Pittston Avenue.
12 I'm wondering if it would be
13 possible either for you or maybe the city
14 solicitor to check and see if The Scranton
15 Times pays a similar fee for the sign they
16 have on the front of its building.
17 The sign is about one foot by
18 20 feet long. It's in gothic lettering and
19 is a part of the architecture of the
20 building.
21 It also advertises the building as a
22 newspaper, so, I think I'd like to know if
23 the big businesses have to pay the same like
24 you little people do. I think it's only
25 fair to inquire just to see if it's done.
.
44
1 And I'd really appreciate it if you could
2 find that out for me.
3 MR. COURTRIGHT: All right. I think
4 they charge by the size. I think that's how
5 I pay.
6 MR. DUDEK: When you look at The
7 Scranton Times, theirs is about 20 feet
8 long. Theirs is feet long. It's built
9 right into the bulling.
10 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'll ask. I'll ask
11 Mr. Fiorini.
12 MR. DUDEK: Okay. That's the first
13 thing I wanted to bring up. And the second
14 thing that I wanted to bring up, as I look
15 at this new budget, I really got infuriated
16 when I looked at it, because if I'm reading
17 this budget correctly, 38 firemen, 38 to 40
18 firemen, are going to lose their jobs
19 because of the cuts that have to be made in
20 the area of safety, and yet these men have
21 the double whammy of having to live in the
22 city and/or own property in the city as a
23 prerequisite for serving as firemen.
24 So, these men who are going to be
25 discharged are going to be really put into
.
45
1 an intolerable situation as a result of this
2 budget.
3 I don't think anybody has ever
4 really looked at it like that, at least
5 until I saw it or until maybe the firemen or
6 the police saw it to say, Wait.
7 I didn't check it out myself to see
8 how far the cops go, but when I started
9 looking at it just from the fire department,
10 I'm looking at maybe 35 to 38 firemen who
11 are going to lose their jobs that require
12 them to live here to begin with, and it puts
13 them, I think, in a horrific situation.
14 Last month when I asked Council if
15 you're going to give the mayor his $10
16 million loan, balance it out by giving these
17 people their contract.
18 Because what you have now is an
19 extreme unfairness. I don't think anybody
20 on Council ever anticipated that kind of
21 unfairness, but it is in there and it's in
22 there in black and white, and I'd like to
23 see something done for these people. Thank
24 you very much.
25 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. Fay
.
46
1 Franus. I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you.
2 You want to wait for Mrs. Gatelli to get
3 back? All right. Lee Morgan.
4 MR. MORGAN: Good evening, Council.
5 I'd like to ask Mr. McGoff a question, if I
6 may.
7 MR. COURTRIGHT: You can ask him.
8 It's up to him whether he answers it or not.
9 MR. MORGAN: Okay. Well, Mr.
10 McGoff, I don't know if you're going to
11 answer this question, but what I'd like to
12 ask is, When you were thinking about the
13 budget, what research did you do before you
14 decided to move $1.5 million from the sale
15 of the golf course into the budget? That's
16 my question?
17 MR. MCGOFF: I don't know that I
18 understand the question.
19 MR. MORGAN: Well, $1.5 million was
20 moved from the sale of the golf course into
21 the budget for the reality transfer tax, and
22 my question is, When you moved that $1.5
23 million and placed it in the budget, what
24 research did you do before you decided to
25 move $1.5 million from the sale of the golf
.
47
1 course into the budget?
2 MR. MCGOFF: What do you mean as
3 research? I'm not --
4 MR. MORGAN: Well, I mean, you came
5 to a conclusion that it was proper to move
6 that money and place it into the budget,
7 would that be a fair assumption at this
8 point?
9 MR. MCGOFF: Yes, because it seemed
10 to be an amount that would allow for the
11 reduction of the realty transfer tax.
12 MR. MORGAN: Were you aware that
13 when the golf course was sold that that
14 money was supposed to be put in trust and
15 only to be used for maintenance of the city
16 parks, were you aware of that before you
17 moved those funds?
18 And I'd like to ask one other
19 question, if I may, and that question is,
20 When you brought the motion forward to do
21 that, who seconded it? Okay. Thank you.
22 So, my point is that you moved $1.5
23 million that was set aside for the city
24 parks illegally, as far as I'm concerned,
25 because when the golf course was sold, that
.
48
1 money was put in trust for the benefit of
2 future generations of Scrantonians.
3 And by squandering that money, and
4 I'm not -- and I'm not trying to browbeat
5 you, I'm just saying it just wasn't legal,
6 it just wasn't proper, and it was definitely
7 wrong.
8 And I really think -- and I do
9 respect you for the seat you hold. When
10 Mrs. Evans had her conference the other day,
11 you were one of the few people who showed up
12 besides Mr. Courtright, and I want to be
13 honest and upfront with you and tell you
14 that I respect you for coming for that, but
15 I do think that when you moved $1.5 million
16 from something that was supposed to be a
17 trust, when we lost the golf course, which
18 was a major asset to the city and a
19 so-called recovery plan by the mayor, what
20 we find is the $1.5 million that has been
21 siphoned off, and I think that you were used
22 as a proxy to bring it to the floor, and
23 then, of course, Mrs. Fanucci, you seconded
24 it.
25 And I just feel that it was all
.
49
1 improper, and I think that you should have
2 did a lot more research before you decided
3 to plug that in, and I think that it would
4 have been more beneficiary for the residents
5 of this city to have made cuts in the budget
6 in order to come up with the $1.5 million,
7 because that money is lost to the city parks
8 forever.
9 And the next time there's a budget,
10 are we going to spend the other $1.5 and be
11 at zero?
12 MS. EVANS: May I respond?
13 MR. MCGOFF: May I respond, since I
14 was the one who was being addressed?
15 MR. COURTRIGHT: Let Mr. McGoff, and
16 then, Mrs. Evans, you're more than welcome.
17 MR. MCGOFFF: Am I not mistaken,
18 I've only been here for a few meetings --
19 MR. MORGAN: Absolutely.
20 MR. MCGOFF: -- but at almost every
21 meeting that I was at, you and others were
22 the ones that were asking where that $3
23 million was and why it wasn't being used,
24 and now when we do make a decision to use
25 it, now you're going to criticize it? I
.
50
1 think that's a bit hypocritical.
2 MR. MORGAN: No, because I never
3 asked anything about the $3 million, because
4 I knew it was improper to spend that money
5 and I knew that it never should have been
6 plugged into the budget.
7 And when Mrs. Evans made the
8 proposal, I stated right here from the
9 podium that I didn't feel those cuts were in
10 the proper places and I didn't agree with
11 her proposal.
12 And if you want to look at what I
13 said here from this podium, then you'll find
14 out that that would be a true reflection of
15 my statements at this point.
16 MR. MINORA: That's five minutes.
17 MR. MORGAN: Thank you.
18 MS. EVANS: May I just inject
19 briefly? Mr. Morgan, I was not seated on
20 Council at the time during which the golf
21 course sold, not was I seated on Council at
22 the time that the vote that Mr. Quinn
23 alluded to earlier was taken; however, it
24 was my understanding, as you stated, that
25 the money was to be placed, the proceeds
.
51
1 from the sale of the municipal golf course,
2 were to be placed in a trust fund. That has
3 never occurred.
4 In 2004, which would have been the
5 year in which I was first seated on city
6 council, I asked the mayor at that time to
7 place that money in a trust.
8 In fact, some of my Council
9 colleagues at the time had wanted to use the
10 golf course money to offset a deficit in the
11 2005 budget, and so at the time I fought
12 that vigorously, because I, like you,
13 believed that the money should be used for
14 the maintenance and conservation of our
15 resources within the city.
16 Now, that never occurred to this
17 day. It was placed rather originally into
18 four CDs in the First National Community
19 Bank of Dunmore where it has remained,
20 never, as I said, to have been placed in
21 trust.
22 Meanwhile, I read in the newspaper
23 that a conservancy has been formed by, I
24 would say, private donors under the
25 direction of the mayor, and the money that
.
52
1 they are contributing and raising is going
2 toward the preservation of the parks.
3 I do not know the amount of money
4 that has been raised to date, nor do I know
5 who the donors are, but I do feel that is an
6 admirable endeavor.
7 But I don't know that it would be
8 correct to say that the use of that money,
9 even though I myself did not vote for that
10 particular amendment, I don't know that it's
11 correct to say that the use of that money
12 would be illegal, because it was never
13 placed in trust.
14 And as I said, many years now have
15 transpired, many opportunities were provided
16 for that to occur, and it never has, which I
17 think sends a different message.
18 MR. MORGAN: Okay. All I'd like to
19 say, I'm going to walk away from this
20 podium, is one simple thing, I think that
21 this Council needs to go look at the minutes
22 of the meetings that were held here with
23 Council and find out what was said about the
24 golf course and where the money was going.
25 And I'm very troubled that the money
.
53
1 was not protected, and I think the residents
2 have been let down, I really do.
3 MR. COURTRIGHT: All right. Mr.
4 Morgan, I'm going to have to ask you in
5 fairness to everybody else to sit down. Is
6 there anybody else who wants to speak? I'm
7 sorry, Mrs. Franus, Mrs. Gatelli isn't back
8 yet. I don't think she's feeling too well.
9 I do not know if she'll be returning or not.
10 I don't know, to be honest with you.
11 MS. SHUMAKER: Good evening. Marie
12 Shumaker. Before I start my comments, I
13 would just like to go back to my comments of
14 your last regular meeting, because I'm
15 troubled by that conservancy.
16 I, too, read in the newspaper that
17 it was a conservancy for the parks.
18 However, if you drive through Nay Aug Park,
19 you will see it is the Nay Aug Conservancy,
20 because there's a sign there thanking
21 Wal-Mart for a contribution to the Nay Aug
22 Conservancy. So, I don't think it's for all
23 parks, I think it's more money for Nay Aug.
24 MS. EVANS: Thank you.
25 MS. SHUMAKER: I will be briefly
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1 tonight, as I want to hear from you.
2 Last year you authorized borrowing
3 an amount roughly equal to one-third of the
4 2007 budget and increased taxes 25 percent.
5 I would like to know what specific
6 actions this Council will take to avoid a
7 repeat of 2006.
8 How are you going to balance the
9 budget, collect monies owed, such as the
10 $600,000 ice box debt, pay outstanding
11 obligations, such as the $5.5 million
12 American Water payment that's due, plus
13 penalties, cut spending and increase
14 revenues, such that the 2008 budget will be
15 balanced?
16 I would also like to know where the
17 new debt is being spent, if any of you have
18 cared to find out that information over the
19 recess.
20 MR. COURTRIGHT: Are you looking for
21 someone to answer you right now?
22 MS. SHUMAKER: Certainly am.
23 MR. COURTRIGHT: I personally did
24 not vote for that budget, so I really can't
25 speak to, you know, for the other people
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1 that did vote for it and where they're going
2 to find the money.
3 I personally agreed with many of the
4 items that Mrs. Evans had put in there that
5 I thought could have saved us some money,
6 not all, but some of them, but that's just
7 me personally.
8 So, we're just going to let --
9 you're content to let 2007 go by without
10 making any provisions so that we don't have
11 a repeat when the budget for 2008 comes --
12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Well, no. I would
13 hope that if I have a say in what happens in
14 the following years, I will do the same
15 research and I will look at it and try to
16 put together a budget with the fellow
17 Council members here like I did this year,
18 but it just so happened I was on the losing
19 side.
20 MS. EVANS: If I might respond, I
21 feel fairly certain that the cuts that I
22 proposed this year will still be in order
23 for the 2008 budget.
24 Furthermore, there may even be
25 additional cuts, because it's more than
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1 possible that as 2007 progresses, we will
2 see more spending or more hiring that really
3 we cannot afford at this financial juncture.
4 So, I may, in fact, be able to add to the
5 reductions that I proposed.
6 In terms of revenue, I'm still very
7 adamant about the amusement tax, about
8 pursuing a hotel tax, about collecting
9 payments in lieu of taxes and about pursuing
10 our $600,000.
11 Now, I'm saying that as only one
12 Council member. I evidently am not a member
13 of the majority voting bloc of this Council,
14 but as a member of a minority, I don't feel
15 that relieves me of any responsibility. I
16 will continue to pursue the same financial
17 avenues that I have for the last three years
18 and do so in the hope that, you know,
19 perhaps the minds of Council members will
20 change.
21 We may see changes in Council, in
22 fact, with an upcoming election, perhaps the
23 mayor may even come to his senses.
24 MS. SHUMAKER: Anybody else have any
25 ideas? You're just content to sit back?
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1 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: No, I don't
2 think I'm content to sit back, in fact, I
3 think that's unfair to say.
4 I think we're all trying to look for
5 increased revenue. We all want to increase
6 revenue. I know myself, I'm going to be
7 going after all the smokers who are going to
8 smoke illegally in our city. $300 buck a
9 pop every time they light. I think that
10 might be great. Could actually increase a
11 lot of revenue that way. So, I myself will
12 be making sure that we enforce that.
13 Hotel tax we've talked about, we've
14 talked about all of this, and we all really
15 believe that this was something we could do.
16 Amusement tax, absolutely, something
17 that we really hope could increase a lot of
18 revenue.
19 I know for the golf course money, I
20 do want to talk about that, that was
21 something that was in Mrs. Evans' budget to
22 use that money, so we did believe that that
23 was a viable solution and we did do that and
24 we did do it so that it would not be placed
25 on the backs of the taxpayers, which was
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1 something that was done in light of saying
2 to someone we don't want to have to raise
3 your taxes, we want to be able to do the
4 right thing.
5 So, we are all willing to do the
6 right thing. Whether or not it is something
7 that you're going to agree is the right
8 thing or not, is -- will be left to be
9 determined. But we are working very hard --
10 MS. SHUMAKER: Mrs. Fanucci, you
11 didn't come up with one spending cut. You
12 can't look at that budget and not come up
13 with one spending cut? I think that's
14 pretty pathetic.
15 MR. MINORA: Five minutes.
16 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mrs. Franus, I'm
17 being told that Mrs. Gatelli isn't feeling
18 well and doesn't know if she will return by
19 the time citizens participation is over.
20 You're welcome.
21 MR. GERVASI: Good evening, City
22 Council. My name is Dave Gervasi. I'm a
23 resident, homeowner and a very proud member
24 of the Scranton Fire Department.
25 My reaction to Mrs. Shumaker's
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1 question is simply this, let's just make
2 this plain and simple, we had two
3 alternatives.
4 Mrs. Evans worked very hard to come
5 up with alternatives to the mayor's budget.
6 Unfortunately, no matter what Mr. Courtright
7 and what Mrs. Evans said, it didn't pass
8 because you need at least four votes to pass
9 that.
10 So, I sat here and saw the other
11 three members of Council say we have to find
12 things, we have to find revenues, we have to
13 find solutions, and I heard that for
14 probably seven meetings in a row.
15 And not to pick on you, Mrs.
16 Fanucci, but you were one that was saying
17 that most of the time.
18 This Council had approximately seven
19 or eight weeks at least when things were
20 being thrown around from the members of the
21 audience and from each other, and everyone
22 basically sat back, let Mrs. Evans do all
23 the work, and only Mr. McGoff and Mr.
24 Courtright, I believe, correct me if I'm
25 wrong, ended up showing up at the meeting to
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1 hear Mrs. Evans' -- her ideas, and a week
2 later everybody sat up there and said, Well,
3 this is a good idea, this is a bad idea, and
4 you changed two things out of all of the
5 things Mrs. Evans made.
6 And the result was the majority of
7 this Council voted for a tax increase that
8 was completely unnecessary, completely
9 unnecessary.
10 As a matter of fact, Mrs. Evans'
11 budget, which I grabbed two days after she
12 presented it and I looked at it, and I
13 compared it to the independent audits, the
14 true factual numbers, not the fantasy
15 numbers that the city has been harping in
16 the newspaper, and the newspaper apparently
17 doesn't investigate what they say, because
18 it was false, three members of this Council
19 voted to raise the people's taxes when it
20 was completely unnecessary.
21 And I heard Mrs. Fanucci and I heard
22 Mrs. Gatelli, and I'm sorry, Mr. McGoff, you
23 weren't here at the time, always state that
24 they don't want to see any cuts in the fire
25 department, you don't want to see any cuts
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1 in the police department, when, in fact,
2 last week you raised the taxes and cut six
3 police jobs and enabled the mayor to stay
4 distressed because of the additional
5 borrowing, and now he's going to go after 38
6 firefighters maybe in the next couple of
7 months.
8 So, we came here, all of the unions,
9 and all of these people who took the time
10 out of their own personal time to study
11 these numbers and to tell you the truth
12 about what was going on.
13 Very few listened on this Council,
14 very few listened on the last Council and
15 the Council before that.
16 We told you what was going to
17 happen, we told you the truth, we told you
18 the factual numbers, and nobody listened.
19 Now we're going to be saddled with a
20 25 percent tax increase, and next year,
21 according to the mayor, there's going to be
22 25 percent more, and after that, there's
23 going to be 25 percent more.
24 And if you add the 25 percent to the
25 25 percents, that's a 93 percent tax
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1 increase over the next three years.
2 So, whatever you pay right now,
3 folks, in your city property tax, double it,
4 almost double it. Now we're going to pay
5 the piper, as everyone has been saying, and
6 it's very unfortunate that this Council
7 didn't get together, for whatever personal
8 or political reasons, now we're holding the
9 bag and now we're going to pay dearly for
10 Mayor Doherty's tax and spend policies.
11 Before they were just frivolous
12 spending policies, now they're tax and spend
13 policies.
14 And I don't know what else to say.
15 We're very, very disappointed that this
16 budget went through. We finally had an
17 opportunity, and I want to thank Mrs. Evans
18 for all the work she did and the other
19 members of Council who supported the things
20 she did, but we did everything we could, and
21 I think some people on this Council did
22 everything they could. Unfortunately that's
23 not the way it happened, and I'm very
24 disappointed. Thank you very much.
25 MS. EVANS: Mr. Gervasi, if I just
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1 may add to what you say, two additional
2 points that disappoint me are that, first of
3 all, it's not only the city's tax increase,
4 it's the school district's tax increase and
5 a county's tax increase, albeit they
6 decreased taxes, what, five percent in the
7 previous year and they're going to give us
8 another five percent this year, but when you
9 subtract that from the 48 percent that we
10 were slapped with, that leaves you with
11 really a 38 percent tax increase. You're
12 still going to pay 38 percent more than you
13 did three years ago.
14 Then you add on city, then you add
15 on the school district, and frankly, I don't
16 know how people are going to live.
17 My second point is this, we are now
18 going to pay more than ever, more than we
19 ever did before, for less services.
20 MR. GERVASI: I believe we said that
21 a few years ago, that the results
22 historically throughout the state with
23 recovery plans and Act 47 is the people end
24 up paying a lot more money for a lot less
25 services, and the politicians continue to
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1 live fat off the hog and do whatever they
2 want to do. They never share the pain, they
3 never take the cuts and they never tighten
4 their belt.
5 MS. EVANS: Well, you know, that,
6 and then I'll cease, that reminds me of a<