7 Thursday, March 15, 2007



10 Council Chambers

11 Scranton City Hall

12 340 North Washington Avenue

13 Scranton, Pennsylvania



































1 (Pledge of Allegiance recited and moment of

2 silence observed.)

3 MS. GATELLI: Roll call, Neil?

4 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

5 MS. EVANS: Here.

6 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.

7 MS. FANUCCI: Here.

8 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McGoff?

9 MR. MCGOFF: Here.

10 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


12 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

13 MS. GATELLI: Here. Dispense with

14 the reading of the minutes.

15 MS. GARVEY: There is no third order,

16 nothing to report other than one thing for

17 clerk's notes, our office received a replay

18 regarding 1207 Cedar Avenue, Councilwoman

19 Evans asked when this would be demolished

20 last week. We were told by Mark Dougher

21 that this is an estate and they are in the

22 process of trying to sell it, so it is being

23 worked on, but he did not have a timeframe

24 as to when this process would be completed.

25 That's all I have.


1 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. I just

2 have a few things. On March 25 at the

3 Keyser Valley Community Center there will be

4 the eight annual Patrick O'Malley Easter

5 party and it's for preschool to fifth grade,

6 and you can call Pat at 346-1828 to make a

7 reservation.

8 St. Lucy's Church in west side at

9 949 Scranton Street is a continuing their

10 Lenten Clam Chowder sale every Friday from

11 four to seven in the church basement.

12 March 25 from noon to 4:00 at St.

13 Francis of Assisi church at 630 Genett

14 Street they are having their spring

15 festival. You can have polenta or rigatoni

16 and meatballs.

17 Minooka Lions Autism fundraiser is

18 Saturday, April 28 at 6:00 at St. Joe's in

19 Minooka. You can call Jack Walsh to make a

20 reservation at 346-2152.

21 Channel 61 is having a fundraiser on

22 Tuesday, this coming Tuesday, March 20 from

23 6 to 8 at the Raddison. The tickets are

24 $10. There will be hors d'oeuvres, a cash

25 bar and entertainment and we can get tickets


1 this evening if you care to from Barbara

2 O'Malley and this is adults only are allowed

3 at this function.

4 Charlie Spano wanted me to remind

5 you that this Monday, March 17 at 7:00 there

6 will a cable commission meeting Monday at

7 7:00.

8 We would like to congratulate and

9 wish a happy retirement to Mr. Vince

10 Rabichek, I'm sure everyone is aware that he

11 is retiring and his store, fancy dress store

12 in the Hill for at least the last 30 years

13 that I can remember, he made a great

14 contribution to this community and he was

15 active in the Hill Association, so we would

16 like to wish him a happy retirement.

17 Also, we would like to wish everyone

18 a happy St. Patrick's Day, this Saturday

19 they will be having a Friendly Son's dinner

20 and the Irish Women's dinner and we wish

21 everyone a happy St. Patrick's Day and have

22 a very safe one.

23 I just have a few requests for

24 Mrs. Garvey. The potholes in the 100 of

25 Bengar are bad. Also, we have never


1 received a status of 1101 Cedar Avenue, it

2 used to be called The Little Bistro, they

3 got a variance from the zoning board I think

4 it's over a year ago to put apartments, but

5 nothing has happened and the windows are

6 out, have been broken, and it's really

7 unsightly.

8 And, also to see if we can put a

9 stop sign at the intersection of North

10 Cameron and Price Street, and the gas

11 station and Meadow Avenue has opened and

12 there is still a problem with the cars

13 coming out and turning left so if you could

14 send that maybe to the Public Safety

15 Director Hayes and ask him to please

16 investigate that and it's a very dangerous

17 situation. We have had people complain

18 about it before, but now the gas station is

19 opened and it's really become a problem so

20 see if we can't get something done there

21 before the light comes.

22 Does anyone else on council care to

23 announce anything? No? The first speaker

24 is Giovanni Piccolino, and just for the

25 record, when you get up to speak if you


1 could please say if you are a resident or a

2 homeowner or a taxpayer because we have

3 received complaints that there are people

4 that come to this podium that don't live in

5 Scranton and don't own property and don't

6 pay taxes in Scranton, so please specify

7 when you get up your status in the city. We

8 use to give addresses, but I think that's

9 improper, so just for the record, thank you,

10 Mr. Piccolino.

11 MR. PICCOLINO: Giovanni Piccolino,

12 resident, and taxpayer and business owner in

13 the City of Scranton, and speaking on the

14 agenda of 5-K about a loan agreement to the

15 Electric City Roasting Company that would be

16 for the Tulllys who have recently purchased

17 the building 516 on Lackawanna Avenue I

18 would hope that you would keep your word and

19 have a unanimous agreement last week not

20 have any loans or anything involving the 500

21 block development project.

22 MS. FANUCCI: This loan is not for

23 that designated area. It has nothing to do

24 with the 500 block. This loan is designated

25 for 918 Marion Street, which is next door to


1 the cafe which they own right now. That's

2 where the roasting will be taking place. If

3 they do own that it's for a separate

4 project.

5 MR. PICCOLINO: All right. I had

6 heard it was for the property they bought at

7 the 516 building for that.

8 MS. FANUCCI: They may very well may

9 have, but that's not where this loan or this

10 money is designated for. It's designated

11 for 918 Marion Street. They are going to

12 roast next door to the cafe, which they own.

13 This is going to be the only roasting, but

14 that's at 918 and 920. It has nothing to do

15 with Lackawanna County.


17 MS. EVANS: Mr. Piccolino, I might

18 add though, certainly that raised my

19 suspicions as well and so when we arrive at

20 that item on tonight's agenda I'm going to

21 ask for a written guarantee from the

22 property owner that none of the money from

23 either OECD or any other department or

24 agency within the City of Scranton would

25 provide money to them to be used for any


1 structure owned by them on Lackawanna

2 Avenue.

3 MR. PICCOLINO: Thank you very much.

4 MS. GATELLI: Fay Franas.

5 MS. FRANAS: Fay Franas, Scranton

6 homeowner, taxpayer. I want to address the

7 issue of the subpoenas tonight. It was in

8 the paper today about the subpoenas and,

9 Mrs. Gatelli, you mentioned that you wanted

10 more information, this subpoena, these

11 subpoenas rather, were voted unanimously by

12 council back in January I believe. There

13 was never any opposition back then, it was a

14 go ahead, let's get the information that

15 Mrs. Evans wanted and she is the finance

16 chairman, I would think you would respect

17 her wishes as the chairman.

18 You always seem to be hedging,

19 always seem to be making excuses in my

20 estimation. It's almost like a track record

21 that you are establishing here, Mrs.

22 Gatelli. Every time something comes for a

23 is a vote we always says, yes, and then when

24 it comes time to vote and find excuses as to

25 why not. I just hope that you are going to


1 vote for these subpoenas. I mean, you have

2 lied about many things before when you ran

3 for office and so this is track record here

4 you are setting.

5 You said you would never allow

6 borrowing from the mayor when you ran. You

7 said you were Gary DiBileo, and you weren't,

8 the translation is you are not for the

9 taxpayers here, you're for what you want,

10 what Mr. Doherty wants, to any end you will

11 go and, Mr. McGoff, you are the same way.

12 Mr. McGoff?

13 MR. MCGOFF: I heard you.

14 MS. FRANAS: With your statement of

15 you want more information, too, don't you

16 trust Mrs. Evans, her wisdom on this

17 finance, I mean, you are another one that

18 also is not for the taxpayers you want what

19 the mayor wants.

20 MR. MCGOFF: Do you want me to

21 respond?

22 MS. FRANAS: Yes, go ahead, please.

23 MR. MCGOFF: At the initial motion

24 it was not unanimous. I voted, no.

25 MS. FRANAS: May I ask why?


1 MR. MCGOFF: On motions. Maybe you

2 would want to wait until later.

3 MS. FRANAS: All right.

4 MR. MCGOFF: I will explain.

5 MS. FRANAS: Mrs. Fanucci?

6 MS. FANUCCI: I was not here during

7 the initial vote.

8 MS. FRANAS: I know, but you

9 certainly know that Mrs. Evans certainly

10 knows what she wants. I mean, that little

11 stomp in the newspaper with you getting

12 everything those -- anything that you want

13 you can get, Mrs. Evans has gone to the

14 mayor many times and to the city offices to

15 get information and they refuse to give it

16 to her, so you implied that, boy, any time

17 you want something you can get it. That's

18 not the case.

19 MS. FANUCCI: I didn't imply that,

20 that's what I stated.

21 MS. FRANAS: I can guess --

22 MS. FANUCCI: I stated that all I

23 have to do is call and make an

24 appointment --

25 MS. FRANAS: That's you.


1 MS. FANUCCI: -- and sit down.

2 MS. FRANAS: That's not Mrs. Evans.

3 Why is this?

4 MS. FANUCCI: Why is this?

5 MS. FRANAS: Yes.

6 MS. FANUCCI: I have no idea.

7 That's not my -- you are asking me about me,

8 I have no idea what happens when Mrs.

9 Evans--

10 MS. FRANAS: Well, it is not the

11 right thing to do. It was just like, "See I

12 can get them, you can't."

13 MS. FANUCCI: It had nothing to do

14 with, see, I can get them. They were the

15 records from last time. It wasn't -- that

16 had nothing to do with this time.

17 MS. FRANAS: But, you are still

18 dealing with the subpoenas for now. She

19 asked for the subpoenas, I hope you all back

20 her up in getting --

21 MS. FANUCCI: -- the subpoenas from

22 last time.

23 MS. FRANAS: Pardon me?

24 MS. FANUCCI: My mission was the

25 subpoenas from last time were still sitting


1 there. It had nothing to do with these

2 subpoenas. It was from last time.

3 MS. FRANAS: Yeah, I know, but

4 these --

5 MS. FANUCCI: Right.

6 MS. FRANAS: But now I hope you back

7 her up on these subpoenas.

8 MS. FANUCCI: I stated in the paper I

9 probably will not be backing her up, I will

10 not be voting for a blanket subpoena --

11 MS. FRANAS: That's what I thought.

12 MS. FANUCCI: Well, you didn't have

13 to think it, I stated it.

14 MS. FRANAS: I noticed. But, I

15 mean, we know way ahead of time what you are

16 going to do. You are going to vote for

17 anything that the mayor wants always.

18 MR. MINORA: That's three minutes.

19 MS. FRANAS: Always.

20 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

21 MS. FRANAS: Thanks.

22 MS. GATELLI: Andy Sbaraglia.

23 MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia,

24 citizen of Scranton, fellow taxpayers and

25 Scrantonians, I think I got it all in. We


1 got a lot of items on the agenda, three

2 minutes will never cover them or even part

3 of them, so I will try to, but I'm concerned

4 about "C" Motion "C", okay? Way in the

5 bottom there it say, "Deleting certain

6 projects," in your backup one of those

7 projects they are deleting is flood control.

8 If you are deleting that much money why

9 can't you do something for those people in

10 lower Greenridge? That's a lot of money you

11 got there and --

12 MS. EVANS: Actually the flood

13 relief is something that's being deleted.

14 MR. SBARAGLIA: I just learned that,

15 yes. That's why I said why can't something

16 be done with that money instead of deleting

17 it, use it to do something to help them

18 people down there. We were almost flooded

19 again today and tomorrow which is lucky that

20 it's going to turn cold, instead we are

21 going to get a blizzard, but there are

22 things that could be done instead of

23 deleting projects let's use some of that

24 money for the projects that they should be

25 used for.


1 We are going to borrow the fourteen

2 $500,000 for the TANS again. That's a huge

3 chunk of our city budget and the worst part

4 about that, that has to be paid back in a

5 year and, Jesus, that's a lot of money.

6 There is nothing we can do about it, I

7 guess, it's too late now. I think you

8 already voted on it long ago, but I just

9 bring it out again so people know much we

10 are borrowing on TANS that has to be paid

11 back in the same year they borrow it.

12 And, well, the coffee shop you

13 explained. The only thing I would say on

14 these cars now are going to be in secondhand

15 cars, what's the mileage going to be on them

16 cars and so forth and so on? Are they all

17 going to be like Fords up there with Crown

18 Becks or something similar or are we buying

19 for 10,000 smaller cars like Pintos or

20 whatever?

21 MR. COURTRIGHT: You know, they are

22 going to -- their hope is to go to auction

23 and buy some used vehicles and this time

24 around if this goes through it's going to be

25 for the Detective Bureau because they


1 sorely, sorely need cars down there and they

2 understand that they can't get the money to

3 buy brand new ones so they are going to try

4 and go to an auction and buy used ones.

5 They are comparable to what they are using

6 now. They're not going to go buy a --

7 MR. SBARAGLIA: They didn't specify

8 the mileage, did they, by any chance.

9 MR. COURTRIGHT: No, they didn't.

10 MR. SBARAGLIA: That's the bad part

11 about that then.

12 MS. GATELLI: It was previously

13 $5,000.

14 MR. SBARAGLIA: No, it's not the

15 money. It's the mileage on the cars that

16 they are buying that's important. Mileage

17 has a lot to do with longevity.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: Andy, we had done

19 this about a year, year and a half ago, and

20 we found a local dealer that was going to be

21 able to get us some used ones that were

22 already -- there was still warranty on them

23 and at the time the mileage was relatively

24 low compared to what we have now, and I

25 believe in my heart we're going to go out


1 and get the best deal we can. They are bare

2 bones when they come to cars.

3 MR. SBARAGLIA: But you got remember,

4 that goes up almost --

5 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.


7 MR. SBARAGLIA: Almost up to 20,000,

8 10,000, just a little under 20,000 because

9 after that they have to come before you

10 again.

11 MR. COURTRIGHT: We are going to do

12 something with that tonight.

13 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Talimini.

14 MR. TALIMINI: Joe Talimini,

15 resident and taxpayer for the City of

16 Scranton. On the agenda tonight I'm pleased

17 to see that we have an agenda tonight, Items

18 5-F, G, H and I, are those the four items

19 you are going to be introducing by

20 resolution? And this is in accordance with

21 your request?

22 MS. EVANS: Yes.

23 MR. TALIMINI: That's all I have. I

24 just wanted to make sure they are going to

25 be introduced. Thank you.


1 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Spindler?

2 MR. SPINDLER: Good evening, Council.

3 Les Spindler, city resident. I don't know

4 why the subpoenas have to be on the agenda

5 tonight because they were voted on in the

6 past once already, but I just hope everybody

7 sticks to the way they voted last time and

8 pass it again tonight. And, Mrs. Fanucci,

9 as far as your quote in the paper yesterday

10 as to why -- what Mrs. Evans' motive is,

11 well, if you have been paying attention her

12 motive is to find out where the money is

13 being sent and where all the money is going

14 that the taxpayers are contributing to this

15 city and making sure it's going to where

16 it's supposed to be going, that's what her

17 motive is. Thank you.

18 MS. GATELLI: Mike Dudek.

19 MR. DUDEK: Mike Dudek, 608 Depot

20 Street, Scranton, PA, resident, I live in

21 the Plot. While council was caucusing

22 earlier tonight about a quarter to six, the

23 state police put a bulletin out on WVIA

24 radio directing people to stay away from

25 State Route or Star Route 401, it's flooded


1 over. State 401 is in Lycoming County.

2 It's a county that's west of us and situated

3 slightly south, further south than

4 Lackawanna County.

5 Now, apparently the flood drain area

6 south of Lake Ontario, the Chemung River,

7 all of those New York counties, are draining

8 into the west bank of the Susquehanna and

9 the flooding is beginning to start. When I

10 look at that and I see that council wants to

11 drain $281.027 of flood protection under

12 Item 5-C you are going to look awfully

13 ridiculous if you delete that money and then

14 we have a flood tonight or tomorrow, please

15 watch what you are doing. Thank you.

16 MS. GATELLI: Sam Patilla.

17 MR. PATILLA: Sam Patilla, resident,

18 taxpayer, homeowner. My better half and I

19 moved to Scranton in August of last year

20 thinking that 85 percent of the populous was

21 going to be senior citizens or at least baby

22 boomers and that the government was honest.

23 Ray Charles could see that what Doherty is

24 doing isn't right, and I implore council to

25 help Mrs. Evans by approving the subpoenas


1 that she requested. That man has to be

2 pulled to the carpet, all right? There is a

3 lot of misappropriations, a lot of

4 underhandedness going on in this city, you

5 know, and from me just being here and coming

6 before council, you know, that should tell

7 you something, you know, start the petty

8 bickering back and forth, get on the same

9 page and put that man in line.

10 Okay, thing two. I'm totally

11 against anything that has to do with Doherty

12 and the word loan. Anything. Be it he

13 requesting to make loans himself or his

14 loaning out money to other organizations

15 until the subpoenas are handed over and all

16 of this is done and some type of

17 accountability is presented to the people of

18 Scranton because unbeknownst to most people

19 the taxpayers in this city are your boss,

20 not Doherty, and for all of the little

21 people out there afraid of losing their jobs

22 because of Doherty there are more of you

23 than there are him. He can't fire all of

24 you. It's time to stand up and take over,

25 all right? I'm not letting you take my


1 money. I work too hard. She retired. I

2 don't have anything to give to you. I want

3 to sit in this my backyard overlooking

4 Scranton, get on the kids about littering on

5 my property and letting their dogs do their

6 do and that's it. I don't want to wake up

7 every morning and have new bills, increases

8 in my waste removal, my water bill, I don't

9 want to have it. The city isn't that large.

10 The budget shouldn't be that big. It

11 doesn't make any sense and you should call

12 him anyway you want to, the man is a crook.

13 MS. GATELLI: Bill Jacowicz.

14 MR. JACOWICZ: Bill Jacowicz, South

15 Scranton resident and taxpayer. I'd like to

16 speak on 5-J, the Radisson Lackawanna

17 Station $250,000 loan. Have they ever

18 received a loan from the Urban Development

19 Action Grant Repayment Loan Program? Ms.

20 Fanucci, please, a yes/no or I don't know

21 answer?

22 MS. FANUCCI: I don't know.

23 MR. JACOWICZ: Pardon me?

24 MS. FANUCCI: I don't know.

25 MR. JACOWICZ: Can you find that out


1 for me by next week?

2 MS. FANUCCI: I can.

3 MR. JACOWICZ: Thank you very much.

4 The Electric City Roasting Company, the

5 $150,000 loan, have they ever received a

6 loan from the Commercial Industrial

7 Revolving Loan Program and, Mrs. Fanucci, a

8 yes, no, or I don't know answer?

9 MS. FANUCCI: Don't know.

10 MR. JACOWICZ: Can you please find

11 that out for me next week? Thank you. Have

12 either of these two companies ever received

13 a loan or assistance from the City in the

14 past even if they were owned by a different

15 owner? Mrs. Fanucci, a yes, a no, or I

16 don't know answer?

17 MS. FANUCCI: Has either of them?

18 MR. JACOWICZ: Yes, ma'am.

19 MS. FANUCCI: I do believe the

20 station had years ago.

21 MR. JACOWICZ: Can you find out when

22 that was and the exact time date and the

23 amount of the loan and whether or not it has

24 been paid back and how they are standing

25 right now on that loan?



2 MR. JACOWICZ: And how many jobs are

3 going to be created since both businesses

4 are currently operational? Just the number

5 please, Ms. Fanucci, the Radisson?

6 MS. FANUCCI: Eight full-time jobs.

7 MR. JACOWICZ: Eight. And the

8 Electric City Roasting Company?

9 MS. FANUCCI: Five full-time jobs.

10 MR. JACOWICZ: Can you please see if

11 you can ascertain what the salary will be

12 for those jobs and I would appreciate that

13 next week, also, if possible or the week

14 after. And, Ms. Fanucci, what benefit would

15 the paying citizens derive from granting

16 these loans, the Radisson charged $10 cover

17 charge for St. Patrick's Day parade plus

18 they did not enforce the smoking law, so I'd

19 like to know what benefits will me as a

20 taxpayer and all the other taxpayers sitting

21 out here benefit by giving these people

22 these loans?

23 MS. FANUCCI: Would you like that

24 now?

25 MR. JACOWICZ: Yes, go ahead.


1 MS. FANUCCI: Okay.

2 MR. JACOWICZ: My time is your time

3 now. Go for it.

4 MS. FANUCCI: Look at this.

5 MR. JACOWICZ: I'm such a sweet

6 person.

7 MS. FANUCCI: Okay, the Lackawanna

8 Station's loan is for $250,000. The reason

9 that they are taking out this loan is for

10 restoration because they are registered as a

11 national historical place. They have to

12 upgrade, they have to stay on top of it.

13 The loan itself is for the interior -- not

14 for the interior, it's only for the exterior

15 and the structural part which will be the

16 marble, the mason and all valuations of it.

17 Them themselves are putting in $5 million

18 for the project. We are kicking in $250,000

19 in loans so this is actually a requirement

20 by the US Registry of Historical Places so

21 that is the benefit. Also, they are

22 currently staffing 175 people who live

23 around our city. So, to me it is a huge

24 benefit for us and also it is a treasure.

25 The Hilton -- the station is a treasure for


1 us, so I do believe that they deserve a

2 loan, yes.

3 MR. JACOWICZ: Okay, I have one more

4 request for you then, Mrs. Fanucci.

5 MS. FANUCCI: Sure.

6 MR. JACOWICZ: The 175 people that

7 are on staff --

8 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.

9 MR. JACOWICZ: -- can you please give

10 me a breakdown on their salary ranges, I

11 would like to know how many people on that

12 staff --

13 MS. FANUCCI: I don't know if I can

14 get that.

15 MR. JACOWICZ: -- live in the --

16 MS. FANUCCI: I don't know if I can

17 get that, because that is --

18 MR. JACOWICZ: Can I please finish my

19 question before you interrupt me, please?

20 MS. FANUCCI: Sure.

21 MR. JACOWICZ: Can you please find

22 out what the salary range is for the 175

23 people on staff and find out how many people

24 are making above the economical poverty rate

25 of $21,000, and how many full-time employees


1 and how many part-time employees. If you

2 can do that I would greatly appreciate it.

3 Thank you.

4 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

5 MS. EVANS: Mr. Jacowicz, also I

6 don't know if you looked at the backup, but,

7 again, under the alterations to the CDBG,

8 one of those projects being decreased is

9 care and preservation of historical

10 structures, so that's a bit ironic.

11 MR. JACOWICZ: Mr. Minora, may I

12 speak or am I done?

13 MR. MINORA: You had your four

14 minutes, but if you've got a question that's

15 up to the president.

16 MS. GATELLI: I'll say, no, because

17 then we'll get into --

18 MR. JACOWICZ: Okay.

19 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else?

20 MR. HUBBARD: 5-C. Justify deleting

21 flood emergency project money. Please.

22 Justify it.

23 MS. FANUCCI: I'm never going to be

24 able to justify it, but I can tell you what

25 I was told. Is that going to help?


1 MR. HUBBARD: Probably not. I want

2 council --

3 MS. FANUCCI: Could you just --

4 MR. HUBBARD: I want everybody up

5 here to justify to me and the residents of

6 lower Greenridge how we can delete a flood

7 emergency project to the tune of $281,000

8 and if we delete it as a flood emergency

9 project where is it going?

10 MS. FANUCCI: I can tell you what I

11 was told.

12 MR. HUBBARD: Okay.

13 MS. FANUCCI: And it's not going to

14 make --

15 MR. HUBBARD: That's fine.

16 MS. FANUCCI: You are not going to be

17 very happy.

18 MR. HUBBARD: I usually am not.

19 MS. FANUCCI: I know. Here's what I

20 was told. I was told that these projects

21 that are being deleted had to be used within

22 a three-year period from start to finish, so

23 if you got the approval for that loan or

24 that money to be approved it had to be used

25 within a three-year period of time. The


1 only way that you can release the funds are

2 to start that process over again.

3 MR. HUBBARD: Okay.

4 MS. FANUCCI: That's what I was told.

5 MR. HUBBARD: So this money needs to

6 be deleted because it didn't get used for

7 emergency flood projects in three years.

8 MS. FANUCCI: That's right I know.

9 I'm just telling you.

10 MR. HUBBARD: Seriously. I mean,

11 this is like what I'm talking about. When

12 you are deleting $281,000 from emergency

13 flood projects that didn't get used in the

14 window of opportunity that you had to use it

15 and in the last three years lower Greenridge

16 has been flooded twice and you couldn't find

17 a project -- you couldn't use the $281,000

18 you had for three years to help a

19 neighborhood that's been flooded twice in

20 the last two years and now that the project

21 money didn't get used in the allowed time

22 you are deleting it. So basically you

23 didn't do a damn thing when you should have

24 done it and the money is useless now. Thank

25 you.


1 MS. FANUCCI: I have worse

2 information for you.

3 MR. LYMAN: Raymond Lyman. Yeah, I

4 got a -- I got questions from 5-F to 5-I

5 about the subpoenas. Mrs. Evans, and you

6 might answer this and then let me speak the

7 three minutes, you did on the subpoenas,

8 wasn't it from 2001 to 2007 that you want

9 all financial records from the Doherty

10 office and all of the departments, yes or

11 no?

12 MS. EVANS: Yes and no. Actually I

13 said from January of 2002.

14 MR. LYMAN: Oh, 2002. And isn't it

15 true that since Fanucci wasn't here they all

16 voted, the all four of yous voted and it was

17 passed, so why do you guys voted now and

18 because Amil Minora doesn't want to do his

19 job.

20 MS. GATELLI: Excuse me, that's out

21 of order. That is out of order.

22 MR. LYMAN: I'm sorry.

23 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Minora does what

24 council requests of him.

25 MS. LYMAN: But you did pass it,


1 Mrs. Gatelli.

2 MS. GATELLI: It was passed in a

3 motion which was not the legal way to pass

4 it. We had to do it with a resolution.

5 MR. LYMAN: But, you four did vote

6 and Amil and Kay said, yes, and because I

7 have the tape and it was passed and since

8 Fanucci wasn't here and you guys said that

9 you were going to do it because I tape every

10 meeting and it was passed and it should have

11 went through.

12 MS. GATELLI: Well, now it spells

13 out exactly what we are looking for, this

14 resolution.

15 MR. LYMAN: So, it's not his fault

16 it's Chris Doherty, you should have did it

17 weeks ago. It should have been passed weeks

18 ago so it's still his fault in my opinion.

19 So it might be my opinion and 67,000

20 people's opinions, Mr. Minora should resign

21 in my opinion.

22 MS. GATELLI: Oh, please. Mr. Lyman.

23 He is not a public official. Please refrain

24 from those comments.

25 MR. MINORA: You know what,


1 Mr. Lyman, don't hold your breath.

2 MR. LYMAN: Well, if Lee Morgan and

3 Andy Sbaraglia does become council you have

4 to resign then.

5 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Lyman, I think your

6 time is up.

7 MR. LYMAN: Well, the three minutes

8 ain't up yet.

9 MS. GATELLI: You are done as far as

10 I'm concerned. You are out of order.

11 MR. LYMAN: Well, the next time --

12 MS. GATELLI: You are out of order.

13 MR. LYMAN: Well, the next time I

14 come up I could speak again.

15 MS. GATELLI: Well, good. You are

16 out of order.

17 MR. LYMAN: Well, my friends --

18 MS. GATELLI: Next speaker, please.

19 MR. LYMAN: -- I think I'll speak

20 again. You will hear me speak again, Mrs.

21 Gatelli.

22 MS. GATELLI: Please don't talk from

23 the audience.

24 MR. LYMAN: I'll speak if I want to.

25 MS. SUETTA: Jean Suetta, and


1 everybody knows I live in Scranton. Now, on

2 this 5-C, why didn't they use some of that

3 money to build that bank up? Why did it

4 take us six months to get the bridge clear?

5 Where was the moneys then and now you want

6 to take it away from us?

7 MS. FANUCCI: Jean, I could answer

8 the question then with the answer that I was

9 given. Let's not shoot the messenger, okay?

10 They are claiming, the Army Corp of

11 Engineers is claiming that the bank is built

12 up as much as it is going to be built up.

13 They are very satisfied with how far it is

14 built up, and I want to get the exact

15 wording on this that I have.

16 MS. SUETTA: They are not staying up

17 all God Damn night watching the river.

18 MS. FANUCCI: Well, what they were

19 saying, Jean, what they are saying is that

20 regardless of how much more -- this is what

21 I was going to tell you before you left, how

22 much more it is built up will not help the

23 flooding. They said that the material that

24 is there, which I thought when we voted on

25 last week, we thought the material was to be


1 put over there and that is not the case.

2 That material was left over, they had felt

3 that they have done an adequate job in their

4 flood protection for now. They said the

5 only way you are going to be protected is

6 when the levy is built.

7 MS. SUETTA: Mrs. Fanucci, will you

8 do me a favor?


10 MS. SUETTA: And meet me on the

11 riverbank and I'll show you how low the bank

12 is.

13 MR. HUBBARD: All of you.

14 MS. FANUCCI: I was there.

15 MR. HUBBARD: Every single one of

16 you.

17 MS. GATELLI: Please.

18 MS. FANUCCI: I went down there and

19 I totally understand, believe me.

20 MR. HUBBARD: It's ludicrous.

21 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Hubbard, it's not

22 your turn to speak.

23 MS. FANUCCI: But what I'm saying is

24 that I went down and I saw, I understand. I

25 don't know what it is that they are looking


1 at or what they are studying.

2 MS. SUETTA: Please don't pass that.

3 MS. FANUCCI: Because I am not an

4 engineer, but I know exactly where you are

5 talking about?

6 MS. SUETTA: No, you weren't there

7 when we were flooded.

8 MS. FANUCCI:I was down the other --

9 MS. SUETTA: You didn't see the

10 cellar. You didn't see the house. Bill

11 did.

12 MS. FANUCCI: But Bill and I were

13 discussing it in caucus. I mean, I do -- I

14 understand 100 percent, but this is the

15 answer that I had received from the Army

16 Corp, so that is all I can tell you, what

17 their position is.

18 MS. SUETTA: You mean, you can't take

19 some of this money, buy these concrete

20 barriers and put them on top of it --

21 MS. FANUCCI: I definitely think the

22 concrete barriers probably would help.

23 MS. SUETTA: Don't pass that

24 amendment.

25 MS. FANUCCI: I don't know.


1 MS. SUETTA: Don't pass that

2 amendment.

3 MR. HUBBARD: They did the -- The

4 Army Corp --

5 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Hubbard, you are

6 through speaking. It's not your turn.

7 MR. HUBBARD: I'm not through yet,

8 Judy. I'm not through yet.

9 MS. GATELLI: Is that a threat?

10 MR. HUBBARD: No, I've got plenty of

11 time to speak at the end, trust me.

12 MS. GATELLI: Well, it's not fair to

13 interrupt someone else.

14 MR. HUBBARD: It's not fair to fill

15 my house with water either, is it?

16 MS. GATELLI: No, I didn't fill your

17 house with water.

18 MR. HUBBARD: No, but you didn't do

19 anything to stop it, did you?

20 MS. GATELLI: You are out of order.

21 MS. SUETTA: What I did --

22 MS. GATELLI: Now, the next time

23 someone talks from the audience and is

24 belligerent I'm going to ask the police

25 officer to remove you. Now, we are all here


1 and we are here to listen and we are here to

2 respect each other. Now, let's respect each

3 other. We are all human beings and just

4 because I don't agree with you and you don't

5 agree with me doesn't mean we are not human

6 beings and we deserve to be treated

7 respectfully and treat you with respect.

8 So, please.

9 MS. SUETTA: You are not taking my

10 minutes, are you?

11 MS. GATELLI: Jeannie, I just

12 talked-- I talked to Mr. Parker before the

13 meeting --

14 MS. SUETTA: Right.

15 MS. GATELLI: -- and he said to give

16 him a call and he will meet anyone down

17 there because he does want to talk to you

18 about what the Army Corp said.

19 MS. SUETTA: Yeah.

20 MS. GATELLI: So if you would call

21 him tomorrow and maybe, Mr. McGoff, since

22 it's your committee if you would like to be

23 there.

24 MS. SUETTA: He was on the riverbank.

25 There is quite a bit of leaking.


1 MS. GATELLI: And we'll see if we

2 can't get something settled.

3 MS. SUETTA: And on that 250,000 we

4 are giving to the Radisson, are they going

5 to use our local workers or are they going

6 to hire people out of town?

7 MS. FANUCCI: I don't know that.

8 MS. SUETTA: I mean, if we are giving

9 them that much money I think they should use

10 the locals.

11 MS. FANUCCI: Right. I don't know

12 what the intent is or even if they have to

13 state that before the loan, but I can try to

14 find out for you.

15 MS. SUETTA: If you would please.

16 Thank you.

17 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

18 MS. EVANS: Mrs. Suetta?

19 MS. GATELLI: Wait a minute, Bill

20 asked to speak first. Go ahead, Bill.

21 MR. COURTRIGHT: I just wanted to say

22 this, I think the $281,000, why we didn't

23 use it, I understand whatever, that's the

24 first I heard that explanation, and I can

25 understand your frustration.


1 MR. SUETTA: You were here when --

2 MR. COURTRIGHT: It's only in Fifth

3 Order and it's an ordinance so it's got two

4 more readings, and I'll look into it from

5 this day forward and see if it wasn't used

6 why when we go down to and we are going to

7 redirect the money the projects they added

8 why it couldn't be added back in for a flood

9 project.

10 MS. SUETTA: That would be good.

11 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yeah, I don't know,

12 you know, maybe they have an answer why it

13 couldn't be added if we are taking out and

14 we're adding in and if we didn't use the

15 $281,000 shame on us and it wasn't us.

16 Let's get that straight.

17 MS. SUETTA: No, no, because you'd

18 get the phone calls from me.

19 MR. COURTRIGHT: But if you are

20 taking out and you're adding in for other

21 projects why can't you just add another

22 project, add the $281,000 in, and that might

23 be too simple of an explanation, but I want

24 to ask that question.

25 MS. EVANS: Or knowing all of the


1 flooding that has occurred citywide over the

2 last two years why would you not reapply?

3 MS. SUETTA: Really. You know, he

4 wasn't down there. You were down there.

5 MS. EVANS: When it appears

6 purposely -- yes, I have been down --

7 MS. SUETTA: Bill, you with there,

8 and you were there.

9 MS. EVANS: And I walked the length

10 of that river in the area after both floods.

11 I visited your house and quite a number of

12 houses on Gardner and Marion and Nay Aug and

13 Albright and I know exactly how you

14 suffered, and I do understand that the Army

15 Corp has intentions of completing this

16 project and at such time all will be solved,

17 but in the mean time temporary measures

18 should be taken.

19 MS. SUETTA: Really. Thank you.

20 MS. EVANS: And since a portion of

21 riverbank was already built up in the past,

22 the recent past, in the event of predicted

23 flooding I see no reason why the DPW can't

24 take that dirt and transfer it about 50 feet

25 over to the riverbank where it should be so


1 that at least we are trying to do something

2 for this neighborhood rather than sitting on

3 or hands and saying, "Well, nothing we can

4 do for you, Folks, until the project is

5 completed."

6 We did a lot, thank God, down in the

7 Plot to save them. We didn't sit on our

8 hands, I think the city did on quite a

9 number of times, but the last time they

10 didn't and thank God and thank all of the

11 individuals who served that area they didn't

12 suffer.

13 MS. SUETTA: Well, why didn't --

14 MS. EVANS: So I don't think this is

15 an acceptable answer.

16 MS. SUETTA: Why don't they come over

17 and do that little bit for us? You know, I

18 thought this morning I went down, there was

19 two dozers there I says, "Oh, they're going

20 to put dirt up on the bank."

21 Movement. I think we speak

22 different languages.

23 MS. GATELLI: Call Mr. Parker

24 tomorrow, Jean, and ask.

25 MS. SUETTA: All right, I'll call


1 Mr. Parker. We'll meet him. Thank you.

2 MR. GERVASI: Hi, City Council. I'm

3 Dave Gervasi, resident and homeowner,

4 employee of the City of Scranton, proud

5 firefighter. I just have an observation

6 before I say what I was going to say. I

7 think a lot of the frustration that comes

8 from this audience is not only in them not

9 getting answers I think certain council

10 people at certain times, not accusing anyone

11 here or in the past, just generally saying

12 is that if someone has a problem and a

13 council person gives an answer or tries to

14 give an answer to that problem which doesn't

15 find out a solution to our problem and are

16 told by this administration, you know,

17 that's the way it is and you take their word

18 for it, well, there is difference between

19 leadership on this council and there is a

20 difference between and as relative to

21 nonleadership on this council, I think if

22 you take the comments of this flood project

23 from the people out here and you think it's

24 wrong what's happening instead of just

25 taking the administration's word for it


1 maybe you should do something about it like

2 many of you council people do very often,

3 and that's just my observation and why I

4 think people are very frustrated out there.

5 The other comment I have is, and call

6 me a cynic, but I have seen these shell

7 games before by this administration like

8 when the referendum was out there and dozen

9 of firefighters and police officers and DPW

10 workers and clerical workers came up to this

11 podium and started explaining to the people

12 what's wrong with the recovery plan, and,

13 Mrs. Gatelli, I will tie this into exactly,

14 this is the point I'm trying to make, we

15 were saying what was wrong with the recovery

16 plan and all of a sudden we needed to paint

17 this building and, of course, the building

18 wasn't going to be painted for months and I

19 believe Mr. Fiorini said the date of the

20 closing of the work being done would be

21 right after the election, those little shell

22 games that have planned, perversion of the

23 laws of Act 47 that has been played. Games

24 played with the Court system, delays and

25 delays, things of that sort, so I'm just


1 curious, the point I'm trying to make about

2 this agenda tonight is Mr. McGoff brought up

3 which, you know, I guess it was kind of a

4 real easy way to lead into get ready for a

5 five-minute speaking rule because it sounds

6 like we are getting six minutes now when, in

7 fact, we are only getting three and three

8 and I'm just curious if anyone knows if this

9 was another deliberate act by the

10 administration to basically not put anything

11 on the agenda for weeks at a time and build

12 them all up to 13 tonight where you possibly

13 don't have a chance or a prayer of any of

14 the citizens wanting to come up here within

15 three minutes and talking about 13 items on

16 the agenda tonight. Does anyone know if

17 this is actually a deliberate ploy, plan,

18 shell game by the administration or am I

19 just crazy?

20 MR. MCGOFF: Are they the only

21 choices we have? I'm sorry, Mr. Gervasi.

22 MR. GERVASI: We have, you know,

23 malcontent and a conspiracy theorists and

24 everything like that.

25 MR. MCGOFF: As far as I know there


1 was no attempts to limit your time by, you

2 know, abusing the agenda by putting so much

3 items on it.

4 MR. GERVASI: Has anyone ever seen

5 empty agendas for weeks at a time ever?

6 MS. EVANS: No.

7 MR. GERVASI: No? And then all of a

8 sudden we have a big one and we have three

9 minutes to speak on all of these matters.

10 Just fuel for thought. That's all. Thank

11 you.

12 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Gervasi, I'd just

13 like to let you know that the president only

14 puts on the agenda what's sent down. I

15 can't make stuff up.

16 MR. GERVASI: Oh, I understand that.

17 I'm saying, the shell game by the

18 administration. I'm not saying anything up

19 here. I'm not accusing anyone up here of

20 doing anything.

21 MS. GATELLI: Because the president

22 does control the agenda.

23 MR. GERVASI: So then what you are

24 saying is -- -

25 MS. GATELLI: I don't believe I have


1 ever kept anything off.

2 MR. GERVASI: If the law department

3 or the mayor or if you happen to not be

4 creating any legislation this week, if

5 nothing is sent to you there is nothing on

6 the agenda.

7 MS. GATELLI: If there is nothing

8 sent what are you going to put on?

9 MR. GERVASI: Thank you very much.

10 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

11 MS. SCHUMAKER: Marie Shumaker, East

12 Mountain Resident. I would like to speak in

13 favor of the subpoenas because I don't know

14 any other way we can find out what's

15 happening to our money or what's going on in

16 the budget. You know I have been here

17 because I have submitted right to know

18 letters and in some instances I get no

19 replies, in other instances I'm just skipped

20 in saying, "We can't find the information,"

21 which is totally ludicrous for a capital

22 budget to not be able to find a single item

23 is just totally ludicrous, so how else

24 without looking at the invoices do you find

25 out where this money has gone.


1 In 2003 the mayor said he was going

2 to invest a quarter of a million dollars in

3 Robinson Park that still has not happened,

4 where did that money go? He said he had it

5 in from the 2002 $72 million bond. Where

6 has it gone?

7 The questions that I asked, eight

8 questions back on January 11, e-mailed you

9 hard copies after that I still don't have

10 answers and they are questions that if the

11 mayor had submitted his budget properly

12 according to Section 902 of the Home Rule

13 Charter which states, "His budget shall

14 indicate any major changes from the current

15 budget year together with the reason for

16 such changes."

17 These were where there were big

18 variances from the prior year, they hop out

19 at you, you can't help but beg the question

20 there was no line item description that

21 tells you why there were any significant

22 changes. How else do you find out if you

23 don't look at the invoices and see what's

24 actually being billed. Thank you.

25 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else?


1 MR. LITWINSKY: Yes. Good evening.

2 John Litwinsky, city resident. I'm really

3 baffled by this removal of the $281,000 from

4 the emergency flood. I mean, I have been

5 coming here for years and still no help from

6 anyone, anywhere, call our representatives,

7 nobody. We been flooded seven times on

8 Gordan Avenue. Seven. Twice in '85, I have

9 to repeat this again, January '96, September

10 '03, September '04, April '05, June of '06,

11 I'm glad to see that the Plot is eventually

12 going to get some help and lower Greenridge,

13 but them like us tonight, you know, we live

14 in fear of the rain. You live in fear of

15 the snow melt, so when I leave here I've got

16 to go sit by the river, watch the river, do

17 you clean your first floor out, what do you

18 do?

19 Nobody understands. Nobody can

20 understand by driving by someone's house and

21 saying they think they see the flooding.

22 No, not until you are shoveling crap out of

23 your living room, right, that's the only

24 time that you truly understand. How do

25 we -- who is going to step up to the plate


1 to help us on Gordan Avenue, the forgotten

2 zone over there. Like who is going to step

3 up to plate, who is going to get involved, I

4 need to know that right now? Our elected

5 officials, we elect our officials in the

6 belief that they are going to help us?

7 There is no response.

8 MS. EVANS: I would be very happy to

9 assist you, but --

10 MR. LITWINSKY: I don't get it. I'm

11 just so baffled. I'm just so baffled. I

12 really am. Two-hundred thousand dollars--

13 MS. EVANS: And I am as well. I am

14 as well.

15 MR. LITWINSKY: I mean, we have had

16 the phone calls, you call this office, that

17 office, they tell you, you know, if we get

18 emergency funding it's going to take ten

19 years to do a study, another 20 years, I

20 mean, Judy, you have been down there, and,

21 Janet, you were at my house, you saw them

22 and we got flooded like that, in an instant.

23 The Sewer Authority I think needs to get

24 involved also that combines sewer outlet or

25 overflow doesn't even need to be there. Why


1 can't they move it? Why can't something be

2 done? And I'm just -- I don't understand,

3 $300,0000 because it wasn't spent. I

4 repeated phone calls, letters, e-mails, I

5 mean, don't we count as taxpayers? I mean--

6 MS. EVANS: Yes, you do.

7 MR. LITWINSKY: So, what's our next

8 step, like, who do we go to?

9 MS. EVANS: The mayor. I know. I

10 know.

11 MR. LITWINSKY: You got to be kidding

12 me.

13 MS. EVANS: But the mayor ultimately

14 makes the decision.

15 MR. LITWINSKY: I have sent letters.

16 I've left messages. This is going on

17 20 years.

18 MS. EVANS: I understand.

19 MR. LITWINSKY: I don't think

20 anybody understands. I really don't. I

21 just don't get it. Like why, why the

22 $300,000 is gone now. That could have been

23 pumps at least for us or somebody or done

24 something.

25 MS. EVANS: Yes, and, in fact, I


1 remember requesting industrial size pumps

2 after caucus with Mr. Parker that would be

3 portable and able to pump out areas

4 immediately that were suffering flooding.

5 Never heard anything again. Sent follow-up

6 letters, never heard anything again, so

7 seriously I do empathize with you because I

8 know all too well what it's like to be

9 stonewalled day after day after day.

10 MR. LITWINSKY: I mean, all of the

11 floods and we're told the flood gates -- you

12 can't go anywhere, you're trapped in there.

13 You are trapped. And that six-foot diameter

14 tunnel is ready to explode. I told them

15 about the depression in my back yard, they

16 shot a camera through they didn't see

17 anything. We bought our own six-inch pipe,

18 which still isn't enough.

19 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.

20 MR. LITWINSKY: I mean, what do I do

21 next? Do I get a lawyer or do I get heavy

22 equipment and do my own levy control, but if

23 I do that then I get arrested, right, if I

24 build my own levy then I get arrested and I

25 go to jail for protecting my own property,


1 so there is no answers.

2 MS. GATELLI: Thanks, John.

3 MR. MORGAN: Good evening, Council.

4 I'd like to speak on the subpoenas tonight.

5 Section 312 Home Rule Charter, "The council

6 may make investigations into the affairs of

7 the city and the conduct of any department

8 office or agency in aid of it's legislative

9 powers and functions and may issue subpoenas

10 for those purposes."

11 Now, I have read the subpoenas

12 that-- I mean, I have read some of the

13 documents that are in the council chambers

14 office when Mr. Saunders was there. I find

15 them to be a joke and I would like to ask

16 Mrs. Fanucci after my three minutes if she

17 tried to decipher anything out of any of

18 that information there because in my opinion

19 when I looked through it, it liked like a

20 pile of garbage, and I have to be very blunt

21 and honest, and I think that when subpoenas

22 are issued if we are going to play games I

23 think all of the subpoenas should be issued

24 at one time, but if you want to play games

25 and issue four at a time then play that


1 game, but when these documents are prepared

2 for this Council they should be cataloged in

3 a binder with an index and they should be --

4 it should be legislated so that they are on

5 a certain size paper so that when any

6 council member wants to look through them

7 they can find something and there won't be

8 garbage in there. I think what we have in

9 this city are clubhouse politicians, that's

10 what I think this city's major problem is.

11 Appointees to the mayor running rough shot

12 over all departments giving no information,

13 duck, bob and weave at every opportunity,

14 lie, mislead, I mean, and we have to listen

15 to Council say, "Well, this is what we were

16 told," and I'm not picking on any single

17 council person.

18 If that's all you know then you are

19 in the dark because you don't know anything

20 because if all you know is what you were

21 told you don't know anything at all, that's

22 why these powers have to be used. I don't

23 trust this mayor. I think in my own

24 personal opinion, my opinion of him is I

25 think he is good parent, but as far as


1 administrator of a city he is terrible. He

2 has mismanaged the city's affairs, we just

3 have to look at the Scranton Sewer Authority

4 all the borrowing through the parking

5 authority, all of the borrowing everywhere,

6 all of the bonds, all of the stuff and the

7 only time that he came to this chamber that

8 I remember, one of the few times he came,

9 was to cast a vote for Mr. McGoff, it's a

10 terrible thing for a leader, but then you

11 know something, I don't think the mayor is a

12 leader. I'd like to say that point-blank so

13 that everybody can understand that because

14 you know what, leaders lead and they don't

15 use their minion to come here and spread

16 disinformation and I think it's time for

17 this Council to issue these subpoenas, make

18 them broad, we want all of the information

19 not just what some Council may think that we

20 are entitled to. This is our government, of

21 the people, by the people and you serve us.

22 Thank you.

23 MS. KRAKE: My name is Nancy Krake.

24 I will be speaking on 5-C, 5-F, 5-G, 5-H and

25 5-I. I believe they are all interrelated.


1 This is the mayor's budget that Mrs.

2 Gatelli, Mrs. Fanucci, and Mr. McGoff passed

3 with a 26 percent increase. As Mrs. Evans

4 was preparing her budget which she and

5 Mr. Courtright voted for she requested much

6 information which she did not receive and

7 still came up with a budget with no tax

8 increase. She requested a lot of

9 information from a lot of different

10 departments and it was not granted.

11 So, Mrs. Fanucci maybe, you know,

12 you might think about voting for the

13 subpoenas, even though I'm sure you won't,

14 abundantly clear in the newspaper, but I'd

15 also like to point out that in this budget

16 and for the past five years we have been

17 spending $18,000 for a flood control project

18 coordinator, $35,000 for an assistant flood

19 control project coordinator, $30,000 each

20 for three flood control relocation

21 specialists, oh, and let's not forget the

22 flood engineer, that was at $15,000, but

23 that's varied over the past five years and

24 the people have gotten no satisfaction.

25 Doesn't this mean anything to you three


1 people who did not even look at Mrs. Evans'

2 budget? Oh, excuse me, Mr. McGoff did and

3 he took one of her ideas and transferred it

4 over instead of giving the people tax relief

5 we gave relief to business people. You

6 should be ashamed of yourselves.

7 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else? Mrs.

8 Garvey?

9 MS. GARVEY: 5-A, motions.

10 MS. EVANS: Good evening. I ask you

11 to remember in your prayers Mr. Ed Joyce, a

12 retired Scranton firefighter who left this

13 life several days ago and the family and

14 friends he leaves behind. I also ask for

15 your prayers for Matt Grendel and his

16 family, may God send him safely home.

17 I await responses to correspondences

18 sent out this week on behalf of citizens.

19 Kay, please send the following

20 correspondences: Mr. Don King, what is the

21 name of the street located between 123 and

22 129 West Parker Street and at the rear of

23 Hollister Street. A resident has examined

24 city maps but cannot locate a name.

25 Also, a letter to Mrs. Mary Tully,


1 owner of Electric City Roasting Company.

2 Please provide a written guarantee to

3 Scranton City Council that any loans

4 received from OECD or any city agency or

5 department will not be used in any manner

6 for your property in the 500 block of

7 Lackawanna Avenue. Should that written

8 guarantee not be received by Scranton City

9 Council then I would not approve that loan.

10 Also, I have been asking about a

11 replacement field for the South Side Complex

12 more than once since 2005, so, please, a

13 letter to Mr. Brazil and a second letter to

14 Mr. Doherty regarding the South Side

15 Complex. According to the memorandum of

16 understanding between the Scranton

17 Redevelopment Authority and the University

18 of Scranton as required by Senate Bill 850,

19 the SRA will construct or cause to be

20 constructed a lighted softball field in

21 conformity with ASA requirements to be ready

22 for use by April 1, 2005. Further, the

23 University agrees to contribute $100,000 to

24 the construction of the project. Thus, it

25 appears that the failure to provide the


1 lighted field is a violation of the mandate

2 of Senate Bill 850.

3 I refer you to my letter of

4 January 12, 2000, and present a deadline for

5 a written response to my questions by

6 Wednesday, March 28, 20007. Should you fail

7 to respond, further measures will be taken.

8 I thank Mr. Gerald Cross, executive

9 director of PEL for his timely response.

10 Mr. Cross states that files for the period

11 January through April 2006, were reviewed

12 and no letter to Mr. Doherty was found

13 regarding police arbitrations as was

14 discussed by Mrs. Stulgis at the Council

15 meeting after February 8, 2007.

16 And, on a brighter note, I think my

17 darling mother would be very disappointed in

18 me if I didn't wish everyone a very happy

19 St. Patrick's Day. May God give you for

20 every storm a rainbow and an answer for each

21 of your prayers. Just a minute, please.

22 (Several people bring boxes up to

23 the front of council chambers.)

24 MS. EVANS: Thank you, gentlemen. In

25 yesterday's newspaper I read with interest


1 and humor a front page article entitled,

2 "Subpoena Surprise."

3 The article was accompanied by a

4 photo of a grinning Mrs. Fanucci who appears

5 to either be reading or attempting to

6 swallow a canary. Orchestrated by my

7 Honorable Cheshire colleague and supported

8 by an absentminded former city clerk, the

9 article asserts that financial information

10 subpoenaed by my motion of August 18, 2005,

11 was never scrutinized by me and has rested

12 in a vault for roughly two years.

13 Mr. Saunders croaks that the records were

14 never looked at. " No one was asked to look

15 at them and so they were deposited in

16 Council's safe."

17 On the contrary, numerous persons

18 examined several boxes of documents

19 including Mrs. Garvey, Mr. Coolican, and

20 myself. Incidentally, neither Mr. Saunders

21 nor any council member at the time

22 volunteered to assist in the examination of

23 the records which is why I was unable to

24 examine all of the information within the

25 very brief time frame.


1 Subpoenas were delivered on

2 August 30, 2005, which provided ten days in

3 which to deliver the information. The boxes

4 were delivered on September 9, 2005, I

5 believe and the new deal with Electric City

6 Hospitality, LLP, was passed by four members

7 of City Council on September 29, 2005.

8 Furthermore, Mr. Saunders wished to

9 throw out the documents considering them to

10 be of no value once the very poor deal was

11 finalized. I asked Mrs. Garvey to save in

12 deposit the boxes in Council's vault in the

13 event of a potential sale of the Hilton

14 Hotel or any future issue involved in the

15 Hilton. The documents in these boxes were

16 examined because the Hilton was on the brink

17 of foreclosure and consequently sheriff's

18 sale by Spectrum in a matter of weeks during

19 2005. As a city councilwoman I was

20 concerned about Scranton's likely loss of

21 more than 3 million dollars.

22 In addition, many claimed promises

23 and questions lingered about 175 parking

24 spaces in the Casey and Medallion garages by

25 the Hilton and about tax abatements


1 involving loss of additional millions of

2 dollars. Questions about the Hilton? For

3 example, was Scranton voluntarily reduced to

4 a second position mortgagee allowing

5 Spectrum to assume the position as the first

6 mortgagee? Was OECD making loan payments on

7 behalf of the developer at the mayor's

8 orders without the knowledge of City

9 Council? Did the former Casey Garage

10 receive state approval for renovation? Who

11 approved the payments to Scartelli for

12 garage renovations that never occurred? How

13 much money had the city loaned and lost on

14 this deal and how could it be recovered?

15 Yes, I learned a great deal. First,

16 the Hilton received $12.9 million from the

17 State of Pennsylvania. It put that money

18 into the hotel construction. Scranton also

19 loaned, not gave, the Hilton $3 million for

20 which the city was to be repaid. So the

21 Hilton and later Spectrum should have

22 invested $15.9 million in the building of

23 which 3 million belonged to Scranton. As

24 collateral for Scranton's 3 million dollar

25 loan, Scranton was the first mortgagee so


1 that if the hotel were sold for any amount

2 of money Scranton must be paid it's full

3 $3 million first before any other person or

4 company or bank would receive a penny. In

5 other words, Scranton was well protected.

6 Then I learned that the mayor

7 voluntarily reduced Scranton to a second

8 position mortgagee and let Spectrum assume

9 the position as the first mortgagee. I also

10 learned that OECD had, indeed, made Section

11 108 loan payments despite the fact that the

12 mayor went on record denying any such

13 payments. These payments were made without

14 the knowledge of Scranton City Council and

15 the taxpayers.

16 Next, the old Casey garage was

17 approved by the appropriate state

18 departments for renovations. Scartelli was

19 given the contract. Work stopped suddenly

20 and the garage was declared beyond repair.

21 Miss Hailstone approved payments without

22 benefit of am engineering degree, an

23 architecture degree, and without any

24 experience in heavy construction and

25 commercial garages. She did not know if


1 that type of heavy construction was

2 completed in compliance with the architect's

3 drawings and specifications so as to

4 authorize OECD to make final payments, yet,

5 she did after she inspected or walked

6 through the structure, $266,098 was tossed

7 away idylly with nothing to show for it.

8 Spectrum foreclosed and claimed it

9 should receive the first $35 million when it

10 would sell the Hilton Hotel at a future

11 date. They claimed to have lost 20 million

12 in damages and loss profit, not just lost

13 business because the mayor failed to fulfill

14 his agreement to provide 175 parking spaces

15 in a new garage. Please note, I never saw

16 any written figures to support that claim or

17 any written proof of the Hilton's -- or I

18 should say, Spectrum's loss. Thus, Scranton

19 but must now wait and get it's money, if at

20 all, until after the first 35 million which

21 this mayor and a former council agreed will

22 go to Electric City Hospitality, LLC.

23 Meanwhile, the Scranton Parking

24 Authority sets aside at all times no less

25 than 175 spaces for Hilton Hotel guests and


1 designates -- or, excuse me, and designates

2 the first and second levels for the

3 exclusive use of hotel guests. It also

4 agreed to charge the lowest of the SPA's

5 public rates in effect, two dollars for an

6 event in the hotel and 50 percent of the

7 regular rate but no more than $10 for the

8 night.

9 Further, the SPA provided each

10 calendar month not less than 100 event

11 passes without charge to the hotel and any

12 unused allocation passes in one calendar

13 month will be carried forward to the

14 succeeding calendar months, thus, the hotel

15 could accumulate the free passes in an

16 unlimited amount and could eventually use

17 and accumulate perhaps who knows, 500 to

18 1,000 free spaces in one month. That can

19 surely effect the garage's monthly income.

20 Finally, I learned that the mayor's

21 sister, Virginia MacGregor, of MacGregor

22 Steel Industries was receiving confidential

23 documents about the Hilton. Did you know

24 these things, Mrs. Fanucci?

25 MS. FANUCCI: I did ask you what you


1 learned from the records and you just said,

2 "I learned a lot. I feel stonewalled."

3 MS. EVANS: Well, I'll tell you I

4 didn't think it was my job to teach you

5 about it since the boxes were there for your

6 perusal at all times, but I do think -- but

7 seriously, Mrs. Fanucci, I do think you

8 should stop commenting on the things about

9 which you know nothing. Look through the

10 boxes and educate yourself.

11 I hoped the City would have

12 negotiated a better deal than waiting for $3

13 million after a sale of the Hilton for 38

14 million, but it failed to do so. Council

15 members did not listen to my advice.

16 Mr. DeBileo's compromise with Spectrum and

17 Mr. Doherty cost the taxpayer's money, 3

18 million dollars plus.

19 The case closed rapidly and remained

20 so for the present. There was no need to

21 examine the remainder of the documents.

22 They continued to be stored in a vault where

23 I believe they should remain until such time

24 as a sale of the hotel or any future

25 problems develop. We housed the history of


1 this hotel deal from January 1, 1998,

2 through September 2005.

3 In response to Mr. Doherty's and

4 Mrs. Gatelli's boldfaced lies, all that

5 needs to be done is a simple request and we

6 would honor it, I present the facts again.

7 I sent countless letters of request over the

8 last three years, and I did bring along, but

9 perhaps I'll save it for the subpoenas, just

10 a very small example of late 2006 and early

11 2007, pages and pages of requests that have

12 never been answered, that were directed to

13 Miss Sara Hailstone, the mayor of the City

14 of Scranton, Mr. Leonard Parchefsky,

15 etcetera.

16 I visited the mayor's office in

17 December and February to collect responses

18 to questions I posed in writing and

19 presented in person during budget

20 deliberations. To this moment I have

21 received nothing. I followed up with a

22 visit to OECD and Miss Hailstone to obtain

23 information I had been seeking since

24 July 2006, and which the mayor publically

25 vowed to provide. Miss Hailstone me that I


1 can't have information. She can't provide

2 it without her boss's permission.

3 On the topic raised by Mrs. Fanucci

4 of wasted taxpayers' money, $3,000 was spent

5 on copies ordered by Miss Hailstone as is

6 her frequent practice. Although she decided

7 not to make the copies inhouse, and perhaps

8 I can understand that because over the last

9 five years the city certainly has many more

10 chiefs than Indians, she did include great

11 waste in the form of duplication and

12 extraneous material. On the other hand,

13 Attorney Boyd Hughes, former Scranton

14 Redevelopment Authority Solicitor,

15 generously donated thousands of dollars in

16 legal services and I myself incurred close

17 to $1,000 in cell phone bills for which I

18 never billed the city for reimbursement,

19 yet, Mr. Doherty lost three million dollars

20 on the deal, plus whatever we have lost on

21 the garages and all of the money that was

22 lost on all of the tax deals that were made

23 with the City, the school district and the

24 county, lost monies on attorneys, lost

25 parking revenue and broken agreements.


1 Although, Mrs. Fanucci is unsure of my

2 motives in seeking subpoenas, I am sure of

3 hers. This is a naked attempt to prevent

4 the garnering of financial information that

5 depicts the true state of the city,

6 engineered through Mrs. Fanucci, an ardent

7 member of the Doherty Three. It is apparent

8 that the glass frosted administration fears

9 what the people will discover resulting from

10 an examination of the records, otherwise,

11 Mr. Doherty and his minions would grant free

12 access instead of directing them to reply,

13 "I can't give you anything without my boss's

14 permission."

15 Rather than swallowing a canary,

16 Mrs. Fanucci has been blindly lead on a red

17 herring chase which simply diverts attention

18 from the fact that Mr. Doherty, the demigod,

19 once are promised an annual incremental tax

20 decrease, but delivered an erroneous tax

21 increase, ballooned our debt and lowered our

22 Standard and Poor's rating. Put simply,

23 there is a hubris in city hall symbolized by

24 frosted glass. The administration's

25 arrogance of power is manifested in it's


1 refusal to answer questions and provide

2 information freely and quickly and in the

3 mayor's lies on television and in the

4 newspaper. That's it.

5 MS. FANUCCI: I do want to start off

6 by thanking all of you for proving my point

7 about last week's comment. It really hit

8 home and I want to thank all of the

9 participants. It was almost like Vanna

10 White came up with the boxes except for it

11 was the union leaders. That was amazing to

12 me. I have to say to you that that was --

13 it was wonderful. It was almost like the

14 best academy award I have ever been at, but

15 let me explain to you what had happened. I

16 did not get lead to the boxes, I was not on

17 a quest to find out about the boxes, I never

18 asked what was in the boxes, I was never

19 around during that time. I came to find out

20 to see if we are going to duplicate some of

21 the materials you were looking for, that's

22 what I came in for.

23 They said, oh, we are looking for

24 OECD stuff, do we already have it? That is

25 what I came into the office for to find out


1 to make sure we weren't duplicating $3,000

2 worth of material.

3 When I got here I was informed that

4 the records were never read. I was informed

5 of that. I didn't come in with that

6 request. To be told that it was this big,

7 you know, there is always a good conspiracy,

8 in fact, it's amazing to me in this City

9 that everybody who even knows or remotely

10 has anything to do with city business is in

11 a conspiracy. I don't understand it. I

12 wish I did, but I don't, but then again, I'm

13 not setting up my next election. I do have

14 to say --

15 MS. GATELLI: Shh.

16 MS. FANUCCI: -- that when I came in

17 and looked at the boxes and was informed at

18 that time that Mr. Saunders had said they

19 were not read my comment was, and if you

20 read the article correctly, Mrs. Evans told

21 me she read it and she learned a lot.

22 That's what my quote was. It wasn't, "Oh,

23 well, then she didn't read it," it was, "She

24 informed us. She learned a lot."

25 So obviously you did learn a lot.


1 Still nothing came of any of it. That is

2 another thing, your request for, you know,

3 the conspiracy at the end of it all we still

4 even with all of your information, and it

5 was wonderful that, you know, it was a

6 wonderful presentation, at the end of it all

7 taxpayerwise nothing came out of it except

8 for $3,000 of materials sitting in a closet.

9 My fear was that we were just going on a

10 hunt. We have independent auditors who look

11 at these records all of the time. They are

12 involved in the conspiracy, also. All of

13 the lawyers are involved, all of the workers

14 are involved, everyone who does everything

15 in this City is involved in this conspiracy.

16 I'm sorry, I just don't get it, I don't buy

17 it.

18 You know, I have been told that

19 there was all millions of dollars left over

20 in the budget from last year and it's being

21 hidden. I can't imagine being a leader and

22 wanting to hide millions of dollars so that

23 you have to borrow money, I don't get that

24 either, so for me to go and go with this

25 theory and say, "This is wonderful," it


1 would have to mean that I believe in this

2 big conspiracy in the city. I believe that

3 everyone is out to get one person, the whole

4 entire city. I don't buy it.

5 I will not be voting for this. I

6 was not here for last time and I could have

7 cleared it up for you then and told you that

8 I wouldn't vote for it then. I don't

9 believe in going in and subpoenaing every

10 single department for every single record.

11 Who is going through them? Who is the one

12 who is qualified to go through all of these

13 records? I mean, I certainly don't want you

14 to incur another $1,000 in phone bills

15 again. That's not our job. Our job is to

16 have auditors we hire ourselves to go over

17 the records and that's what we do. To me

18 that's what this is about.

19 We are legislators. I certainly am

20 not an investigator, I never claimed to be

21 one, that is not what I am here for. I am

22 here to legislate and try to make the city a

23 better place. I'm not going to keep doing

24 us against them for the rest of our entire

25 lives. I'm not doing it. It's been going


1 on here long enough, for years and years,

2 and guess what, nothing has changed.

3 Everyone who is out there is still out

4 there. Everyone who is sitting in this

5 audience are still sitting in this audience.

6 Contracts have still not been settled, no

7 agreement has been come to and all it does

8 is constantly, constantly fuel the hate. I

9 don't get it and I'm not going to be part

10 the of it.

11 But I am going to tell you what I'm

12 here to do, my job, and there are some

13 things I'd like to speak on. As far as the

14 station, I gave you my views on the

15 Lackawanna Station project and the fact that

16 it is restoring historical and I do believe

17 in keeping our historical places going and

18 doing the best that they can. I want to

19 keep the treasures in our city, so I do

20 believe in that. As far as the Item-C

21 amending for the flood projects, I'm going

22 to tell you that I'm not voting on that.

23 I'm not voting on that until they find a way

24 to make that money available so that we can

25 help the people down in the Plot area. It


1 has been, and I know I spoke to them last

2 week, it is that our hands are tied. I wish

3 that it wasn't. I tried to get that dirt

4 moved thinking that that was part of our job

5 and that it was there and we should have

6 moved it and I couldn't get it done, so I do

7 want to make sure that that is done. I will

8 not be voting on that.

9 The Electric City Roasting Company,

10 I was asked by Mr. Jacowicz in telling him

11 what benefit it is for new businesses in the

12 city and I'm going to give you my version,

13 which obviously is all I can do, when you

14 expand a business or give money to a

15 business in this city it is not just a

16 benefit for the person who is getting the

17 business, they need everything. They need

18 computers, they need rugs, they need new

19 windows, they need heating and cooling

20 equipment, furniture, they need everything.

21 That spawns jobs. That helps with the

22 creation of other jobs, so if you are you

23 the computer guy maybe you don't think it's

24 that great but now you are getting a new job

25 from them. So every job creation creates


1 more work and more money for our city.

2 That's where the importance comes from.

3 Now, I'm going to tell you what the

4 roasting company serves. Right now they

5 serve restaurant, also, so they are very big

6 in expanding. They have Jilly's, Cooper's,

7 Scranton Country Club, State Street Grill,

8 Monsure's Market, Schiff's and they

9 distribute all over the place and they

10 actually are in demand now and trying to

11 expand their business, that's why it's

12 important to them. They actually cannot

13 keep up with the demand of the roasting so,

14 Mr. Jacowicz, I guess if you don't like

15 coffee maybe you might not think that this

16 is important, but there is other jobs that

17 come from those jobs, that's where it lies.

18 It lies in investing in the people in our

19 city, believing in the people in our city

20 and helping give them a shot at making

21 bigger businesses and helping give options

22 to the people who want to stay here and who

23 want to be part of Scranton, that's what

24 it's about. That's what I have always been

25 about from day one. I am big on that. I


1 love the fact that we can give money to,

2 help money, they can pay back their loan,

3 we've actually only had two people default

4 ever, ever, Whistle's and somebody else that

5 right now is actually paying off the loan so

6 it's actually we are down to almost one. So

7 that's a good record and that's something

8 that I think we should have faith in the

9 citizens and I think we should help them out

10 when we can.

11 I want to talk Mrs. Shumaker on the

12 health issues from last week. I went to the

13 Health Department and spoke to them, and I

14 don't know if I want to rehash this, but

15 they're claiming our health inspector had

16 gone to a scene a crime scene and then after

17 that went to other restaurants to inspect

18 without doing her job which was to clean

19 herself up and make sure she was presentable

20 and healthy for the next job.

21 I talked to the department heads,

22 they have an issue of where she was in time.

23 That is not the case. That is not what

24 happened, but they would like you to come

25 in, make an appointment and sit down with


1 them so they can tell you what the procedure

2 is for these type of events. I can give you

3 a little bit in saying that the food

4 handling, they are only there to inspect the

5 food. They do not go near the crime scene,

6 actually nobody can go near a crime scene,

7 where the body is, but nobody can go near a

8 crime scene and tamper with the evidence.

9 They are there just make sure that the food

10 that is exposed to the air is disposed of

11 quickly and promptly and immediately, and

12 they are there to watch the removal of the

13 food. That is the job for the health

14 inspector. But, they do want you to come in

15 so they can explain to you exactly how the

16 procedure goes. I know that Patty was there

17 until I believe like 6:00 in the morning and

18 then came here directly after that, so maybe

19 you can sit down with them and they can help

20 you out with that.

21 I have two more things. Oh, as far

22 as downtown, I did talk to George Parker and

23 I know this has been a big thing with the

24 flooding, and it is not that I was taking

25 the administrative positioning as being the


1 word of what they were saying, I spoke to

2 the Army Corp of Engineers on the project,

3 that's where my -- because to me, they are

4 in charge of the project. They oversee the

5 whole entire project, it is not just the

6 city, so that that's where my information

7 came from, it was from the Army Corp and

8 that is all I have. Thank you.

9 MS. EVANS: Mrs. Fanucci, I just

10 wanted to exchange compliments with you, I

11 think you made a wonderful, lovely paparazzi

12 subject for the Scranton Times' reporter and

13 the Scranton Times photographer who just

14 coincidentally happened to be there at the

15 time that you made the visit to the boxes,

16 but I would ask if you had read the

17 subpoenas because if so I think you would

18 have realized that they are not general,

19 actually, they are quite specific.

20 And I just wanted to add, yes, we do

21 receive audits, however, an audit is a

22 sanitized version of the financial facts.

23 It does not allow the reader to examine any

24 of the documentation.

25 And I finally would say if I learned


1 even one thing from those subpoenas in 2005

2 it was worth it. It was more than worth it.

3 And I have learned as well to question every

4 issue, every piece of legislation that comes

5 down from this administration and I have

6 learned not to listen to the verbal

7 responses but to demand the documentation on

8 behalf of the people. It's got to be in

9 black and white. It can't be someone's

10 anecdote.

11 MS. GATELLI: Mr. McGoff?

12 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you. First of

13 all, I would like to first congratulate my

14 friends on the St. Patrick's Day Parade

15 Committee for another great parade last

16 weekend, and my hope that it only gets

17 better in the future. I would also like to

18 wish everyone a happy St. Patrick's Day and

19 especially to my son, Patrick, and my future

20 daughter-in-law, Sabrina, who will be

21 getting married this Saturday on St.

22 Patrick's Day.

23 The events I'd like to comment a

24 little bit on the events of last week last

25 week, last week's meeting, to me they were


1 unacceptable. I think that the city council

2 needs to be a place of business. It should

3 not be a battleground for name calling or

4 character assassination and this applies to

5 everyone speaking in council, council

6 members included, and participating

7 citizens. It is not a place to be

8 disrespectful of one another, it is a place

9 for discussion. If there is disagreement,

10 fine, but in a respectful manner with the

11 good of the city being the ultimate goal.

12 We can't condemn what goes on, we can't

13 condemn it from one side and support it on

14 the other. We need to be respectful of

15 everyone and the rights of everyone in

16 council and also respect the business of

17 city council. I think the business of city

18 council should be the future of the City of

19 Scranton. We spend far too much time

20 looking back and not enough time looking

21 forward. We need to consider tomorrow.

22 I think the subpoenas and the

23 discussion over the subpoena of 2005 area

24 classic example. What happened in 2005 is

25 not relevant today. Whether or not all of


1 the records were viewed is totally

2 irrelevant. The only relevance is what is

3 happening in the present. We can't let the

4 past prevent us from making an honest

5 assessment of what is happening in the

6 present. The subpoena of 2005 should have

7 absolutely no bearing on how we look at and

8 how we vote on the subpoenas that will be

9 presented tonight.

10 I'd like to also say that I agree

11 with Mrs. Evans on the loan to Electric City

12 Roasting. I believe that we have should

13 live up to what we said or what we voted on

14 last week and that I think the proposal that

15 all of those funds be dedicated to that

16 particular project on, I forget the street,

17 I'm sorry, well, all of the funds that

18 Electric City Roasting is asking for, you

19 know, be used for that and be dedicated to

20 that specific project.

21 Also, on Item 5-C this today was the

22 first I had a chance to look at 5-C and I

23 think that unless there is some valid

24 explanation for the deletion of Project No.

25 0515, that we not even consider that


1 particular proposal. There needs to be some

2 valid explanation as to why that money was

3 not used and why it is not going to be used

4 in the future for some type of flood

5 protection. That is unconscionable that

6 that money could be wasted, money that

7 should have been dedicated to or was

8 dedicated to something that has been asked

9 for and something that has been an urgent

10 need of residents of the City of Scranton.

11 And, lastly, in caucus this evening it

12 was asked of Attorney Minora to prepare an

13 ordinance for our review that would consider

14 levying an entertainment tax. It was

15 something that was proposed I believe before

16 I was on council and something that

17 Mrs. Evans included in her budget and I

18 think something that be council and city

19 needs to seriously consider for the future.

20 In addition, other revenue sources were

21 discussed and will be investigated and

22 hopefully brought to the agenda in the near

23 future so that the revenue of the city can

24 be increased and hopefully that the taxes

25 that have been levied can either be reduced


1 or at least not increased in the future.

2 Thank you.

3 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Courtright?

4 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. I'd just

5 like to announce the 18th annual dinner

6 auction for the Scranton Chapter of the

7 American Red Cross is going to be Saturday,

8 March 31st and 7:00 p.m. and if you need any

9 additional information you can contact Cindy

10 at 207-0709 -- or, I'm sorry, 0109.

11 I'd like to congratulate Lieutenant

12 Jeff Makey. There was a call that went out

13 and had gone by for a child that needed

14 medical assistance and the family didn't

15 speak English that well, Lieutenant Makey

16 speaks Spanish very well, he responded to

17 the call, he did CPR on the child until the

18 time EMS got there and I believe the child's

19 life was saved, so we would like to

20 congratulate him and thank you him. And

21 also the EMS personnel, I don't know the

22 names or I would mention them.

23 I got a letter from a retired Navy

24 gentleman and he asked that I read this, I

25 don't agree with some of it, but I will read


1 it. It says, "Mr. Courtright, my real

2 estate taxes rose $31, my school tax rose

3 $72, will you bring this up at the meeting

4 to let people know," and this part I don't

5 agree with. He says, "You won't bring it up

6 because you have," and I can't make out this

7 word, I think it was few, "You have few

8 family members working for the schools."

9 I have one family member, my sister,

10 she has been a teacher, I'm very proud of

11 her, she's a school teacher for Scranton,

12 she's been teaching for almost 30 years.

13 Other than that, I haven't been blessed with

14 my family with any political jobs, not that

15 we didn't try in the past, we didn't know

16 anybody.

17 And here's another one, and I guess

18 I hadn't talked to Amil beforehand or I

19 would ask him then, Amil, he is saying that

20 Rule of Council was and thinks still is that

21 a candidate running for office cannot

22 address council at the podium. I don't know

23 about that rule, I don't know if there is a

24 rule, but he asks if I could find the answer

25 to that question.


1 MR. MINORA: I'll be glad to look

2 into it for you.

3 MR. COURTRIGHT: And, also, I'm

4 having a difficult time reading this

5 gentleman's writing, I'm sorry. "Also, fee

6 for swimming has been enforced for many

7 years. Freedom of speech does not allow

8 anyone to defame anyone. You know people

9 are afraid to face the gallery at council so

10 please bring up these items. I can't sign

11 this because I am afraid."

12 I would home that you wouldn't be

13 afraid, I don't think you need to be afraid,

14 but you asked me to read it so I read it.

15 And if you send me a letter and don't want

16 me to say your name I won't say it. I would

17 like to know who I'm receiving the letter

18 from.

19 Kay, if we could ask Mr. Parker,

20 Fume Avenue turns into Forrest Glenn and

21 approximately half way up the hill and going

22 up the hill on the left-hand side a good

23 portion of the road is just completely torn

24 up, all right, if they can get somebody up

25 there to take a look at it.


1 And I'm not going to delve into this

2 getting information any deeper than what we

3 have, but maybe I can get some information

4 now. I know Mr. Doherty came here maybe

5 once since I have been here and said that

6 all we have to do is ask, and I believe it's

7 been in the paper, I have been asking for a

8 long time, I have a simple question, a real

9 easy question that he can answer tomorrow

10 morning me, all I want to know is I went

11 with him and Congressman Kanjorski to Main

12 Avenue, I'm sorry I keep repeating myself,

13 and we looked at from Jackson Street to

14 Luzerne Street, curbs were supposed to be

15 put in or we were looking at putting them

16 in, sidewalks, lighting and possibly

17 underground utilities. Congressman

18 Kanjorski was in favor of helping us. As a

19 matter of fact, it was the mayor that

20 recommended that we go to Congressman

21 Kanjorski. I was receiving some help from

22 Dr. Amil -- I'm saying, you're not Amil, Dr.

23 Barry Minora, because he was very

24 instrumental, I think one of the biggest

25 people involved in the project upon Market


1 Street and Main Avenue up there and so I

2 went to him first and I had told Mr. Doherty

3 that I asked Dr. Minora and he didn't think

4 it was necessary if we got the Congressman's

5 help. They were supposed to do a study to

6 see, you know, what this project would cost,

7 I haven't heard a thing since then. I have

8 sent letters, we voted on a letter here, I

9 have gone to see him twice and he wasn't

10 there, so I've got to assume somehow he

11 knows what's going on in these meetings.

12 Could you please give me an answer to that

13 question? Are you going to help the people

14 in West Scranton do this project or are you

15 not? Yes or no. I won't hound you. I

16 would just like a yes or no answer, please.

17 So that's an easy one, much easier than the

18 one Mrs. Evans is asking for.

19 And lastly, on a very serious note,

20 I'd like to send my condolences to the Joyce

21 family. I knew Eddie Joyce, he was a

22 terrific guy and he will be sorely missed,

23 and that's all I have. Thank you.

24 MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Garvey?










8 MS. GATELLI: At this time I will

9 entertain a motion that 5-B be introduced.

10 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

11 MS. FANUCCI: Second.

12 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

13 those in favor? Aye.

14 MS. EVANS: Aye.

15 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.

16 MR. MCGOFF: Aye.


18 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? The ayes

19 have it and so moved.
















9 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll

10 entertain a motion that Item 5-C be

11 introduced.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

13 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

14 MS. EVANS: Yes. I don't know --

15 MS. FANUCCI: Second.

16 MS. EVANS: I don't know who ordered

17 the alterations, I would assume it was the

18 mayor, if not, most assuredly it should be

19 Miss Hailstone, but I am aware that there

20 were other agencies throughout the city

21 whose funding was cut or decreased through

22 this round of grants and I don't see any

23 type of improved allocations in their cases

24 so I really would request who is making

25 these decisions, but that is a sidebar to


1 the greatest issue which in my mind is the

2 removal of the Emergency Flood Relief

3 Program monies, and I have a concern about

4 the historical structures as well, so I will

5 be voting, no.

6 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else on the

7 question?

8 MR. MCGOFF: Yes. I think, too,

9 that unless there is a valid, as I said

10 before, unless there is some explanation as

11 to where that money is going, the $281,000,

12 and why it's not being redirected to flood

13 relief then there is no conscionable way

14 that we can vote for this.

15 MS. GATELLI: Does anyone want to

16 make a motion to table it until we get the

17 answers or amend it?

18 MS. SUETTA: Vote it down.

19 MR. UNGVARSKY: Vote it down.

20 MS. GATELLI: Okay, then we'll vote.

21 All in favor?


23 MS. GATELLI: Opposed?

24 MR. MCGOFF: Opposed.

25 MS. EVANS: Opposed.


1 MS. FANUCCI: Opposed.

2 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Five/nothing.

3 Mrs. Garvey?

4 MR. COURTRIGHT: Kay, before you

5 read 5-D, I'd like to make a motion on 5-D,

6 if I may, you know, I'd like to explain why

7 I'm making the motion, 5-D is to me is about

8 police vehicles. Over a year ago I sat down

9 with now I think Captain Leoncini and we

10 went over the detective bureau was in dire

11 need of police vehicles. We talked about

12 making an amendment, but it just never came

13 to be because there was no money to be found

14 to buy the vehicles. More recently, I have

15 been in discussion with active lieutenant

16 Joe Lafferty for the same thing and, you

17 know, we discussed it and asked if I would

18 be in favor of this motion and I said,

19 "Absolutely," but when the ordinance came

20 down it came down with a whole bunch of

21 other stuff attached to it, leaf trucks,

22 pickup trucks, things other than police

23 cruisers, so for that reason I would like to

24 make a motion that we amend 5-D, the

25 ordinance, to limit the purchase to police


1 vehicles, cruisers and/or detective cars.

2 MS. EVANS: Second.

3 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

4 those in favor? Aye.

5 MS. EVANS: Aye.


7 MR. MCGOFF: Aye.


9 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? The ayes

10 have it and so moved.











21 MS. GATELLI: As amended?

22 MS. GARVEY: Yes. I read it as

23 amended.

24 MS. GATELLI: May I have a motion on

25 the amendment?


1 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

2 MS. FANUCCI: Second.

3 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

4 in favor?

5 MS. EVANS: Aye.


7 MR. MCGOFF: Aye.


9 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? The ayes

10 have it and so moved.

11 MR. MINORA: Excuse me, and maybe I

12 wasn't paying attention, did you also vote

13 on the amendment?

14 MS. EVANS: Yes.


16 MR. MINORA: Okay, I'm sorry.












2 MS. GATELLI: I would request that

3 someone make a motion that we table this. I

4 received a call from Attorney Scacchitti and

5 I would like to give him the opportunity to

6 explain what the project is?

7 MS. EVANS: I move to table Item 5-E.

8 MR. MCGOFF: Second.

9 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else on the

10 question?

11 MS. EVANS: Yes. Just as we are

12 going to provide time for Attorney

13 Scacchitti to present his case, it is my

14 hope that the residents of Railroad Avenue

15 and Emmett Street would come to council and

16 express their concerns, present their case

17 to city council as well. I think it's most

18 important that we hear from the residents of

19 the area and what their desires and concerns

20 are.

21 MS. FANUCCI: I agree. I'm a little

22 concerned in trying to figure out why this

23 is in front of us as a council. I looked at

24 the zoning map before we came tonight and

25 there is a lot of questions that are aroused


1 from the map, I couldn't figure out exactly

2 why this was in front of us in the first

3 place so I agree. I agree that we need to

4 really figure this one out.

5 MS. GATELLI: If we leave it on,

6 there would be a public hearing. Whenever

7 there is going to be a proposed zoning

8 change there is public hearing and then

9 everyone is present, so if you would rather

10 do that. I would rather just --

11 MS. EVANS: Perhaps though it might

12 be better to have all of the parties

13 involved address the issue publically so

14 that the citizens can also hear what Mr.

15 Scacchitti has to say.

16 MR. MINORA: He might be willing to

17 withdraw that if there --it appears to be no

18 support and that would save the city a lot

19 of money and time.

20 MS. GATELLI: That was my thought.

21 MR. MINORA: That would be what my

22 suggestion would be, not to hear from

23 residents but --

24 MS. GATELLI: If we hear from him

25 and we are not interested in going forward--


1 MR. MINORA: If he withdraws it, it

2 will save the City a lot of money.

3 MR. COURTRIGHT: So, Mr. Minora, are

4 you stying that we should leave it on and

5 wait to hear from the --

6 MR. MINORA: My suggestion would be

7 to table it and then talk to him and see if

8 is he willing to withdraw it without the

9 city incurring a great deal of costs in

10 terms of advertising and so forth.

11 MS. GATELLI: I think most of us up

12 here are familiar with the area and know

13 what our decision is going to be. I'd just

14 like to give him the courtesy.

15 MR. MINORA: To withdraw it.

16 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else on the

17 question? All in favor? Aye.

18 MS. EVANS: Aye.

19 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.

20 MR. MCGOFF: Aye.


22 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? The ayes

23 have it and so moved.

24 MR. MINORA: And that was a motion to

25 table; right?


1 MS. GATELLI: To table.






7 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll

8 entertain a motion that 5-F be introduced.

9 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

10 MS. EVANS: Second.

11 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

12 MS. EVANS: I think if council

13 members have read the subpoenas they will

14 recognize that this is specifically asking

15 for all bills, fees and costs reimbursements

16 to all firms engaged by the City of Scranton

17 to represent it in any and all legal

18 matters. So, it is not an open-ended

19 subpoena.

20 MS. GATELLI: I just have a question,

21 as far as the years, is the years there? I

22 didn't get a chance to read that?

23 MS. EVANS: It should be from 2002,

24 January 2002 to the present was what I had

25 directed and I have made these requests, I'm


1 very happy to pass along to my colleagues

2 just a very tiny bit, a tid-bit of the

3 requests that I have made and, in addition,

4 I might add we even have a response from the

5 State of Pennsylvania, from PennDOT,

6 directing changes to be made in the City of

7 Scranton back in I believe it's 2005 and yet

8 for whatever reason -- well, actually I know

9 the reason because the mayor's involved with

10 the beauty salon, he is not going to comply

11 with the directions of the State of

12 Pennsylvania, so I think nothing short of a

13 subpoena will force this mayor to comply.

14 MS. GATELLI: Well, I'd like to --

15 MR. MCGOFF: I'd -- Go ahead. You

16 are on.

17 MS. GATELLI: I would like to make a

18 motion that we table the subpoenas and that

19 we meet together as a council, and I stated

20 this when I voted the last time that we

21 should meet and be specific as to exactly

22 who we want, what we want and what exactly

23 it is that we are trying to prove. Are we

24 trying to prove that there was wrongdoing?

25 Are we trying to prove a certain project


1 where there was malfeasance? I'd like to

2 sit down and discuss this more further with

3 you, Mrs. Evans.

4 MS. EVANS: Well, actually,

5 Mrs. Gatelli, that's all contained in the

6 resolutions, the justification for each is

7 part of the resolution.

8 MS. GATELLI: Well, I think it's too

9 broad and I'd like to narrow it down a

10 little further.

11 MS. EVANS: I can certainly respect

12 that opinion, but I can tell you seated here

13 tonight I have made great efforts to narrow

14 this down as much as it possibly can be

15 done. I'm leaving many of the questions you

16 are going to look at unanswered and I do not

17 believe it can be further put through a

18 sive. As the mayor would say, it is what it

19 is, and we are either going to vote to give

20 the information to the people or we are

21 going to vote against it and keep hiding the

22 information.

23 MR. MCGOFF: May I?

24 MS. GATELLI: If someone is hiding

25 information are they doing something wrong?


1 Is there a place where we can look to say,

2 well, I think they misappropriated money in

3 a certain place?

4 MS. EVANS: Well, I think you have to

5 establish that before you would file any

6 charges and you can't establish that until

7 you get the information. That's the point

8 of an investigation.

9 MS. GATELLI: Well, I just think that

10 there is too many items here and it's too

11 cumbersome and who is going to possibly look

12 at all of this stuff. Why don't we start

13 with one and, you know, like do that "F"

14 first and see how we go along and the

15 meantime the other ones see if we can't get

16 answers. If he knows that we are going to

17 do this --

18 MS. EVANS: I think he knows this is

19 going to be done. He has been well aware of

20 this for a long time.

21 MS. GATELLI: Well, my suggestion is

22 why don't we do one. We certainly are not

23 going to have time to read all of the stuff

24 anyway when it starts coming in if we do

25 them all.


1 MS. EVANS: Well, that was one of the

2 reason I had narrowed it down to begin with

3 these four because in actuality it was the

4 people who demanded a full investigation of

5 every city department and I realized that

6 that that would be quite cumbersome and so

7 in response to that this is what was

8 produced.

9 MS. GATELLI: Well, if we can't come

10 to a conclusion then I'm going to vote, no.

11 I don't want to. I want to do a subpoena

12 for something. I'd like to start with one

13 department and see if we can't get the rest

14 of the information and the mayor told me

15 that he would give us the information.

16 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mrs. Gatelli, can I

17 speak?

18 MS. GATELLI: But I'd like to give

19 him a time frame to get that certain amount.

20 MR. COURTRIGHT: If I may suggest --

21 MS. EVANS: Mrs. Gatelli, did you

22 look at the information? Did you look at

23 any of these requests that I made?

24 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I just scanned

25 them.


1 MS. EVANS: And why would I believe

2 that I'm going to receive it? The only

3 possibly hope I can hold out is because

4 someone he likes better might ask him, but

5 then again, I'm not satisfied with verbal

6 responses. I want to see all of the

7 documents. Well, what I'm saying is I don't

8 want it simply -- the response provided in

9 writing. I want the backup. I want every

10 bit of information that proves the

11 statements that they are placing in black

12 and white in the form of a response to my

13 questions.

14 MS. GATELLI: I think that if we

15 think that the City is this corrupt then we

16 need to report it to the Attorney General.

17 I'm going to repeat myself again, let's do

18 one and see how we make out.


20 them.

21 MR. COURTRIGHT: Shh. Can I say

22 something? I'm going to vote, yes, for all

23 of them because I just think we will be

24 batting this thing back and forth too much,

25 but I would suggest this, if you don't want


1 to go for all of them, that's certainly your

2 prerogative, so just vote, yes, on "F", you

3 know, at least get one of them. I will be

4 voting yes on all of them, I just think we

5 have gone back and forth too long.

6 MS. EVANS: Yes.

7 MS. GATELLI: Well, my point is what

8 are you trying to prove?

9 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm not trying to

10 prove anything.

11 MS. GATELLI: Are we trying to prove

12 someone is stealing money? Someone is

13 misappropriate money?


15 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm not going to

16 speak for anybody. I think what she is

17 trying to prove is that she is trying to get

18 answers to many different questions and she

19 feels that she is never getting the answers

20 and this is the only way that she can get

21 them. I don't know if I'm interpreting what

22 you are asking for correctly.

23 MS. EVANS: That's most accurate.

24 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't think that

25 you think specifically anybody stole


1 anything or maybe he killed somebody and had

2 him stuffed in a closet or anything, I think

3 you are generally disgusted because you have

4 been asking for information and you are not

5 getting it you are fed up.

6 MS. EVANS: Well, the only thing I

7 might add is these subpoenas are not issued

8 out of a sense of self or a sense of

9 disgust. I'm fairly well-resigned after

10 more than three years to doing homework,

11 finding information on my own and having

12 doors closed in my face day after day after

13 day, and I'm a patient woman, I can deal

14 with it, but as a representative of the

15 people they are demanding the answers and

16 they are been waiting year after year after

17 year. They are not satisfied with the lack

18 of responses to their questions and to the

19 questions that I pose on behalf of them and

20 so as a representative of the people I

21 believe that council as was eloquently

22 stated before should be taking the orders

23 from their boss right now, just as the

24 department heads take their orders from

25 Mr. Doherty, I think city council needs to


1 take it's orders from the people who elected

2 it.

3 MS. FANUCCI: I'm going to say I

4 agree with you. Today I received numerous

5 note to subpoena e-mails and my people who

6 sent me e-mails are considered to be people,

7 also. I don't believe there is just one

8 group of people in the city. It's amazing

9 to me like people if you like me you are not

10 people out there, so remember that. The

11 people is not always represented in one tiny

12 group. I am not voting for the subpoenas.

13 I do believe this is just looking for

14 something, I don't know what, but keep

15 looking and I think it's great, but when

16 last time, I felt bad because I know that

17 you went down for information to the office

18 and when I asked the mayor I said, "Did she

19 come down and did she make an appointment

20 like the rest of us?"

21 I call, I make an appointment, I go

22 down and get my answers. There was no

23 appointment. You marched in with the

24 legion, which is good, which I think is

25 great, and demanded all of this stuff and he


1 wasn't even in the office.

2 MS. EVANS: I know. It's very

3 difficult to find him because each time --

4 MS. FANUCCI: It's 9:00 at night.

5 MS. EVANS: No.

6 MS. FANUCCI: But that's not -- you

7 should call --

8 MS. EVANS: There was a light --

9 MS. FANUCCI: -- like I do. Call

10 and make an appointment and go in, and when

11 those things are attempted he sits down with

12 you. At an appointment if he says to you,

13 no, then I would vote for these. Until then

14 I will not.

15 MS. EVANS: Well, I'll tell you it's

16 very difficult though, Mrs. Fanucci, because

17 I'm working basically --

18 MS. FANUCCI: So am I.

19 MS. EVANS: -- two full-times jobs

20 where the mayor is not, yet the mayor rarely

21 seems to be in his office and that was one

22 of his complaints about his predecessor, "He

23 is never in his office."

24 Well, that's true, he wasn't,

25 because he was on the streets of Scranton.


1 He was where the people were. This man

2 though, however, is in Las Vegas and

3 Washington and Harrisburg and lovely, lovely

4 vacation spots, I would say at least a week

5 a month, so it's very difficult to get your

6 hands on him.

7 MS. FANUCCI: So you tried to make

8 an appointment and you were denied?

9 MS. EVANS: No, I was following his

10 advice, "My door is always open. Just walk

11 in."

12 MS. FANUCCI: Well, call next time.

13 MS. GATELLI: Excuse me, but

14 Mr. McGoff would like to talk.

15 MR. MCGOFF: I just want to clarify

16 some things on the resolution. I think that

17 we do have a right to the information, what

18 I'm not sure is that the subpoena as it's

19 written that it doesn't get us more than we

20 want, that we will end up with boxes. If

21 I'm correct, and maybe I'm wrong, that what

22 you would like is the name of the firms, the

23 cases on which they worked, and the cost to

24 the city for that work; is that correct?

25 MS. EVANS: Not completely. I'm not


1 looking simply for the cost, I want all of

2 the invoices, the bills that prove those

3 costs. But -- well, I'm sorry, I

4 interrupted you, you continue.

5 MR. MCGOFF: Well, I was going to

6 say, I would probably be willing to vote for

7 obtaining the names of the firms, the cases

8 on which they worked and the costs for the

9 prior year. I don't know that it's

10 necessary to go back four years or five

11 years for these records, but certainly the

12 Year 2006 I would probably consider voting,

13 yes, if that were what the subpoena were

14 for.

15 MS. EVANS: That's a nice

16 compromise, but it does not solve the

17 dilemma, it does not provide all of the

18 information because the history of the

19 basically Doherty debt dates back to 2002

20 and it has been growing like a monster ever

21 since and one year's worth is insufficient.

22 As I have said before, you need all of the

23 pieces of the puzzle to make the picture.

24 You can't simply take a few pieces and then

25 say, "I have solved it," because it's got


1 gapping holes in it.

2 MR. MCGOFF: Then what is it that,

3 you know, what are the pieces that would be

4 missing? So far --

5 MS. EVANS: Whose been hired in 2002,

6 three, four, five, six, seven.

7 MR. MCGOFF: I guess what I'm asking

8 is pretty much the same thing that

9 Mrs. Gatelli asked, is there suspicion of

10 some type of malfeasance on the part of the

11 law department and the administration in

12 hiring outside attorneys? If so, then we

13 need to say that. If all it is is trying to

14 verify costs then I think that what I said

15 and what I'm willing to vote for is to do

16 that.

17 MS. EVANS: It's not only a matter

18 though of verifying costs, we don't even

19 know who those firms are. We don't know how

20 they were hired. This happens without any

21 bidding process. We even have relatives of

22 city workers who are I hear engaging in

23 represent representing the city on this idle

24 issue or that. I think though, I'm not

25 going to continue because I agree with


1 Mr. Courtright this has been batted about

2 more than enough. You either wish to do

3 this or you do not wish to do this. You are

4 either going to vote for the people or vote

5 for Mr. Doherty. It's as simple as that.

6 MR. MCGOFF: I am willing to

7 compromise.

8 MS. GATELLI: So am I.


10 compromise.

11 MR. MCGOFF: Excuse me, I'm --

12 MS. GATELLI: Please no remarks from

13 the audience. This is a very serious

14 matter.


16 that.

17 MR. MCGOFF: If you are going to

18 make it an all or nothing proposal then I

19 think that you are going to end up with

20 nothing.

21 MS. EVANS: Well, actually it's not

22 all or nothing. It's very specific and

23 there are four separate ones.

24 MR. MCGOFF: I'm offering a

25 compromise.


1 MS. EVANS: And I've already offered

2 you have the compromise in that I believe

3 you originally stated this is far too broad

4 to be asking for all financial records from

5 all departments so in an effort to

6 compromise with you this was produced. Now,

7 you wish a further compromise. I believe

8 that if I should grant that I'm compromising

9 the people.

10 MR. MCGOFF: Well, the first time

11 when you made the initial motion I voted,

12 no. I'm now willing to change that, so I

13 think that I, too, have made an attempt at

14 compromise. Again, if it's an all or

15 nothing then it's going to be, I fear that

16 it's going to be nothing and I -- but, if

17 you want to start gathering information then

18 I think we need to start doing that and

19 gather the information that might be

20 available.

21 MS. GATELLI: I don't remember where

22 we were at. I made a motion to table it,

23 did I? Nobody seconded it? Nobody seconded

24 it.

25 MS. EVANS: Someone seconded it,


1 that's how we were able to discuss it.

2 MR. MINORA: There is unseconded

3 motion to table it.

4 MS. GATELLI: Unseconded motion to

5 table it.

6 MR. MINORA: It either fails on the

7 second and you vote it.

8 MS. GATELLI: No one is going to

9 second it, so it's going to be all other

10 nothing again.

11 MS. EVANS: Well, it's not all or

12 nothing. A great compromise was already

13 made. If that compromise still isn't

14 palatable to you for whatever your reasons

15 the people know.

16 MS. GATELLI: The people also know

17 that there is no room for compromise here,

18 it's all or nothing. All right. Go ahead.

19 Let's vote. 5-F. At this time I'll make a

20 motion that 5-F be introduced.

21 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

22 MS. EVANS: Second.

23 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

24 in favor?



1 MS. EVANS: Aye.

2 MS. GATELLI: Opposed?



5 MS. GATELLI: No. It dies three to

6 it.

7 MS. GARVEY: That was a vote three to

8 two it dies.

9 MS. EVANS: Correct.






15 MS. GATELLI: At this time I will

16 entertain a motion that 5-G be introduced.

17 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

18 MS. EVANS: Second.

19 MS. GATELLI: On the question? No

20 move to compromise on this either? No one

21 is interested?

22 MS. EVANS: No, because I believe as

23 in the case of so many other crucial issues

24 is beleaguered postponement and then

25 eventually the mayor achieves his goal


1 regardless of all of the excuses that are

2 made, so I would rather simply stand up and

3 be counted tonight.

4 MS. GATELLI: Just for the record,

5 Council has never met about these subpoenas.

6 MS. EVANS: Mr. Minora gave these

7 out at last week's meeting. I had requested

8 that you receive it prior to Tuesday for

9 your perusal, everyone was asked to read

10 them over --

11 MS. GATELLI: I didn't mean that. I

12 mean we didn't meet to discuss it.

13 MS. EVANS: And then they were to

14 call Mr. Minora with any objections or

15 suggestions they might have so that it would

16 be made prior to the presentation of the

17 legislation tonight. Evidently, that did

18 not happen.

19 MS. GATELLI: No, we had a caucus at

20 5:30 tonight, but only three of us were

21 present so we couldn't discuss it.

22 MS. EVANS: Well, it was already on

23 the agenda. The time to change it was prior

24 to --

25 MS. GATELLI: No, it can always be


1 amended.

2 MS. EVANS: -- the publishing of the

3 agenda.

4 MS. GATELLI: We amended several

5 things tonight. 5-G, I have a move and a

6 second, anyone else on the question? All in

7 favor?

8 MS. EVANS: Aye.


10 MS. GATELLI: Opposed.

11 MR. MCGOFF: No.









20 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll

21 entertain a motion that 5-H be introduced.

22 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

23 MS. EVANS: Second.

24 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

25 those in favor?


1 MS. EVANS: Aye.


3 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? No.



6 MS. GATELLI: The no's have it.







13 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll

14 entertain a motion that 5-I be introduced.

15 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

16 MS. EVANS: Second.

17 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

18 MR. MCGOFF: Yes. And, once again,

19 perhaps it won't be acceptable, but I think

20 that the portion of the subpoena that deals

21 with the use of the $10,000 tax anticipation

22 note is certainly of value. I'm not sure

23 that we need the other parts of the

24 subpoena, but the $10,000 -- or, $10

25 million, excuse me, the 10 million dollar


1 TAN I think that any documents related to

2 how it is being used and how it is being

3 spent certainly would be worth gathering and

4 I would probably be willing to vote for a

5 subpoena to gather that information.

6 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else?

7 MS. EVANS: I think that the Doherty

8 Three are to be commended. They have done a

9 fine job this evening.

10 MR. MCGOFF: Mrs. Evans, I have never

11 been disrespectful to you. I have never

12 referred to you in any way other than by

13 name and I don't think that the disrespect

14 that you are showing to me is justified.

15 MS. EVANS: How do you know that you

16 are included in that?

17 MS. GATELLI: That's why the meetings

18 are the way they are.

19 MS. EVANS: No, I think the tone of

20 the meeting is set by the leadership.

21 MS. GATELLI: Yeah.

22 MR. MCGOFF: Would you care to

23 identify -- would you care to identify the

24 Doherty Three?

25 MS. EVANS: Need I?


1 MR. MCGOFF: You just asked why I

2 assumed, so I guess you do.

3 MS. EVANS: Well, I think you already

4 know because you assume you are part of it

5 and correctly so.

6 MR. MCGOFF: So I was correct that

7 you were insulting me?

8 MS. EVANS: You were correct in that

9 I was referring to you. I'm sorry that you

10 consider your allegiance to Mr. Doherty an

11 insult.

12 MR. MCGOFF: No, I don't.

13 MS. GATELLI: Please stop. Let's

14 stop this.

15 MR. MCGOFF: The context in which it

16 was presented was certainly an attempt, was

17 an attempt to be insulting and

18 disrespectful.

19 MS. EVANS: And what is happening

20 tonight --

21 MR. MCGOFF: As I said, I have never

22 done that to you and I never will.

23 MS. EVANS: Well, I timed --

24 MR. MCGOFF: I would ask you to do

25 the same.


1 MS. EVANS: I absolutely agree, but

2 you will have to forgive my passion when I'm

3 trying to fight for the people of this city.

4 MS. GATELLI: All in favor?

5 MS. EVANS: Aye.


7 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? No.














21 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll

22 entertain a motion that 5-J be introduced.

23 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

24 MS. FANUCCI: Second.

25 MS. GATELLI: On the question?


1 MR. COURTRIGHT: On the question, I'm

2 going to vote in favor of introducing this

3 and I appreciate everything that

4 Mrs. Fanucci gave us on this, but I'm going

5 to try to dig into this a little bit more

6 and it's quite a bit of money and I do value

7 the historic value, so I'll vote to

8 introduce it but I'm just going to check it

9 out a little bit more throughout the week.

10 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else on the

11 question?

12 MS. EVANS: Mr. Courtright, if you

13 would be willing to share with me any

14 information that you receive because my

15 concern is that we have already lost more

16 than I can tell you because I can't get my

17 hands on records in what has been loaned,

18 for example, to the Hilton Hotel and I just

19 think it would be prudent to proceed with

20 caution in the awarding of all loans since,

21 frankly, there is no way to fully check on

22 the validity or reliability of any issue.

23 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm just going to

24 make a call down there and see if they can't

25 tell me what the Radisson has received from


1 the city in it's history and just a little

2 bit more information and see what they have,

3 five million dollars is what you were

4 saying--

5 MS. FANUCCI: Right, five million

6 they are putting in the structure.

7 MR. COURTRIGHT: So I'll just check

8 it out a little bit and I'll be happy to if

9 find out I'll give that to you.

10 MS. EVANS: Thank you,

11 Mr. Courtright.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: You are welcome.

13 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else on the

14 question? All those in favor? Aye.

15 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.

16 MS. EVANS: Aye.


18 MR. MCGOFF: Aye.

19 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? The ayes

20 have it and so moved.











5 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll

6 entertain a motion that 5-K be introduced.

7 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

8 MS. FANUCCI: Second.

9 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

10 MS. EVANS: Yes. I would suggest

11 that this is tabled until such time as Mrs.

12 Tully decides whether or not --

13 MR. COURTRIGHT: Is the one you are

14 going to amend? No? I thought this was the

15 one you wanted to amend to say that --

16 MS. FANUCCI: She did that. She did

17 in a letter to her motions.

18 MS. EVANS: Yes.

19 MR. COURTRIGHT: Oh, okay.

20 MS. EVANS: I'm asking for a letter

21 from Mrs. Tully guaranteeing us that none of

22 this money will be used toward her property

23 at 516 Lackawanna Avenue and until such time

24 as that arrives or she chooses not to

25 provide such a legal document then we can


1 resume the vote.

2 MR. COURTRIGHT: All right, I'm

3 sorry. So you are making a motion to table

4 that?

5 MS. EVANS: Yes. I move to table

6 this item?

7 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'll second that.

8 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

9 those in favor? Aye.

10 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.

11 MR. MCGOFF: Aye.


13 MS. EVANS: Aye.

14 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? The ayes have

15 it and so moved.









24 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll

25 entertain a motion that 5-L be introduced.


1 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

2 MS. FANUCCI: Second.

3 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

4 those in favor? Aye.


6 MR. MCGOFF: Aye.


8 MS. EVANS: Aye.

9 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? The ayes have

10 it and so moved.














24 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll

25 entertain a motion that 5-M be introduced.


1 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

2 MS. FANUCCI: Second.

3 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

4 MS. EVANS: Who will be performing

5 these housing inspections? Are they getting

6 into an agreement perhaps with the company

7 who has licensed inspectors? I know that we

8 in the city certainly haven't, but UNC is

9 going to be overseeing this.

10 MS. GATELLI: Right.

11 MS. EVANS: Who they will they be

12 utilizing as housing inspectors?

13 MS. GATELLI: They usually use

14 private ones in the program even when it was

15 inhouse.

16 MS. EVANS: That was my only concern.

17 MS. GATELLI: We can find that out

18 for you next week. Anyone else on the

19 question? All in favor? Aye.

20 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.

21 MR. MCGOFF: Aye.


23 MS. EVANS: Aye.

24 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? The ayes have

25 it and so moved.











10 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll

11 entertain a motion that 5-N be introduced.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

13 MS. FANUCCI: Second.

14 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

15 those in favor? Aye.

16 MS. EVANS: Aye.

17 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.


19 MR. MCGOFF: Aye.

20 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? The ayes

21 have it and so moved.

22 MS. GARVEY: Sixth order: No

23 business at this time. Seventh order: No

24 business at this time. Eighth order:

25 Citizen participation II - General City


1 Issues.

2 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mrs. Gatelli, is it

3 possible to take a brief two minutes because

4 we have a lot of speakers.

5 MS. GATELLI: Okay. We'll take a

6 five minute recess.

7 (A brief recess was taken.)

8 MS. GATELLI: Fay Franas.

9 MS. FRANAS: Fay Franas, Scranton. I

10 want to start off by saying that what just

11 happened here I believe was illegal. You

12 passed a motion January 28 and I can't

13 believe that this passed because this is not

14 proper procedure as far as council, so I

15 think, Mrs. Evans, you should check into

16 this for your own sake because what they

17 just did was illegal.

18 Mr. McGoff got appointed as a

19 motion, I just don't even understand this.

20 What you did was very disingenuous, Mrs.

21 Fanucci, Mrs. Gatelli and Mr. McGoff. You

22 already passed a tax increase, Mrs. Gatelli,

23 can you please look at me instead of writing

24 when I'm -- paying attention to what I am

25 saying instead of ignoring me. You passed


1 all of this stuff, you passed the

2 legislation for the budget, the same

3 excuses, now you pass excuses again. Always

4 excuse. You are definitely, definitely,

5 definitely, not for the people one spec.

6 Mrs. Fanucci, you say you have

7 people out there talking, well, the four

8 people you have out there may agree with

9 you. Mr. McGoff, you sat there and you

10 said, "I fear that if we got all this

11 information it would be too much," you are

12 thrilled you didn't get this information.

13 You are all trying to hide something, that's

14 what you are doing. You know exactly what's

15 hidden, you are doing Mr. Doherty's work,

16 the Doherty Three is the perfect name for

17 the three of you. You sold us all down the

18 river, you are going to continue to do it.

19 Mr. McGoff, I can see you are running for

20 election, you are finally talking. If you

21 don't like what Mrs. Evans says, like I told

22 you last week, if you can't take the heat

23 get out of here. We are paying your salary.

24 If you don't like it, we don't like what you

25 are doing to us and we have to sit here and


1 take it and then you sit here and you say,

2 "Have respect for us."

3 How could we have respect for you

4 when you have not done one thing for us

5 except sell us down the river, take every

6 penny out of our pocket that there is, that

7 you could possibly squeeze and now you are

8 trying to hide information. You are trying

9 to hide information. Mrs. Gatelli, Mrs.

10 Fanucci and Mr. McGoff, it's all a ploy.

11 You sit there and you sit there with your

12 excuses and your silly reasons just like you

13 did for the budget, Mrs. Gatelli, "Oh, I'm

14 not -- I'm going to give him what he wants,

15 but when you ran for election, "Oh, I'll

16 never vote for any borrowing."

17 Got elected, didn't you? Liar, liar

18 again, and that's what you all are. Now,

19 let me say something else here.

20 Mrs. Gatelli, you appointed Mr. McGoff here

21 for city council based on the fact that he

22 was not going to run for council, that's why

23 you said you weren't going to vote for Gary

24 DiBileo, how is that this man is running for

25 council now and that's why you appointed


1 him, I can't understand the reasoning,

2 another excuse by you and you expect us to

3 take -- your credibility is shot. Shot,

4 shot, shot. Mrs. Fanucci, Mrs. Gatelli, Mr.

5 McGoff, you three are finished as far as

6 politics. I almost want to bring my son

7 back here to Scranton so he can live here

8 and vote just to get you out of office when

9 you run. Now, I've had it. I have had it

10 and everybody else in this city,

11 Mrs. Fanucci, with your arrogance and you

12 say to Mrs. Evans, you said, oh, did she ask

13 you for an appointment when you spoke to Mr.

14 Doherty.

15 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.

16 MS. FRANAS: Did she ask? She is the

17 cat's mother. Did Mrs. Evans ask.

18 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

19 MS. FRANAS: Maybe you should go and

20 ask.

21 MS. GATELLI: Andy Sbaraglia.

22 MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia,

23 citizen of Scranton, fellow Scrantonians.

24 Again, I'm going to bring up the joker. Do

25 you plan to introduce legislation to have


1 free swimming at the city pools this year

2 again? It's time now. It's March,

3 mid-March. The way things move in this town

4 you should have it done before June. Do you

5 plan to do it? I guess you don't. You care

6 nothing about the kids swimming free, do

7 you?

8 All you care about is raising taxes.

9 You raised EMS tax 52 bucks; house tax, sky

10 high. The pools bring in $30,000 a year,

11 that's all, $30,000. You raise tax on the

12 people of Scranton millions. You plan to

13 push in the amusement tax, that's more. You

14 are pressing the people continually with

15 your taxes and nuisance taxes on top of it

16 now. Nowhere did you ever do anything to

17 curtail the administration. What he offered

18 was a joke and anybody that knew he -- I

19 told you before tell me he changed the

20 capital budget by a million dollars is a

21 laughable matter. Anybody that understands

22 anything about economics knows a joke when

23 they hear it. I could propose building a

24 damn across the east and west mountain and

25 then say I'm not going to build this damn


1 and save the City 150 million, but have we

2 saved the City one cent? No. Where it has

3 to be saved is in the dollar and cents of

4 the city.

5 You have to check every building

6 that comes across your -- you ask why you

7 had no legislation for so many months,

8 actually, he didn't have to bring it. He

9 gets $20,000 he can give out in bids, under

10 $20,000, he can do that for as long as he

11 wants. He got enough legislation to do

12 whatever he wants. The only time he has to

13 come before you at all is for these huge

14 loans. That's the reason why he is not

15 parading it up before you, he doesn't have

16 to. He can run the city without you if he

17 don't want to give away loans. If you'd cut

18 all this excessive spending he wouldn't even

19 need you because he has enough power to run

20 the city without you. The only thing he has

21 to come before you if he wants new

22 legislation he has to, he can run the city

23 with it. That's the reason why you don't

24 have to send something every week if he

25 doesn't want to or he can send you back a


1 whole bunch of stuff and hope to overlook

2 the items in the budget like that deal with

3 $281,000. If you read everything you know

4 it, but you know we need flood protection.

5 There is no reason for him to have that. I

6 seen him take money away from --

7 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.

8 MR. SBARAGLIA: I thank you.

9 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Talimini.

10 MR. TALIMINI: Once again, Joe

11 Talimini, citizen of Scranton. I have three

12 points that I'd like to bring up. Number

13 one, on the smoking ban I'm not a legal

14 mind, not a trained legal mind, but I did

15 get in touch with several attorneys

16 throughout the state and including one in

17 Erie. I was in touch with the gentleman who

18 filed the lawsuit in Erie and Judge Boza

19 acknowledged overturning the rule up there.

20 Basically it's the same ordinance that we

21 had here. He again ruled, it's in my

22 newsletter this week, I'm not going to take

23 the time to spell it out for you, but he did

24 rule and he also said that it is not

25 entirely up to anybody except the


1 legislature to change the law.

2 So, consequently, based on what he

3 tells me and what I have heard from other

4 attorneys in the state this legal -- this

5 ordinance is illegal, I will continue to

6 smoke. If I get cited I will file a suit

7 against the City of Scranton and I hope

8 everybody else will, too. There was

9 selective enforcement of the law over the

10 weekend, I don't think anybody was arrested,

11 but during the illustrious parade we had in

12 town, I have pictures of some of our great

13 citizens sitting right smack in front of the

14 cultural center, some with their fezzes on,

15 very prominent people smoking cigarettes

16 less three feet away from the door while

17 kids were sitting there, open containers,

18 this is at our cultural center, Radisson

19 Hotel had the same problem, I was down there

20 and took some pictures but that's

21 irrelevant, I just wanted you to know that.

22 This is not going to end with this smoking

23 subject and continued push for it.

24 I'm not going to make any personal

25 attacks on anybody, I just find it very,


1 very disgusting that Mrs. Evans made the

2 front page of the newspaper again yesterday,

3 if you want to call it a newspaper, and I

4 spent 54 years in journalism with some

5 really decent newspapers and magazines in

6 New Yorker, even though I'm not legally

7 qualified, I spent this time and I'll tell

8 you why I have never seen a bigger disgrace

9 than what passed as journalism in today's

10 newspaper. Mrs. Evans, on behalf of

11 journalists all over of the country, and I

12 can't speak for Stacy or the Times, but I

13 apologize to you. I would hope that they

14 have the courtesy to pay you the due respect

15 you got after tonight.

16 MS. EVANS: Thank you.

17 MR. TALIMINI: And I also hope that

18 these people in this town recognize your

19 efforts and applaud you for everything you

20 have done and I will personally applaud you

21 right now. As for the rest of this council

22 I don't know what it's going to take to get

23 across to you, but there are 30 to 40 people

24 here every week, some are the same faces,

25 most of them are the same complaints such as


1 the Hubbards have, I don't know what it

2 takes for you people to get it across.

3 Can't you see what's going on here? Are you

4 just blind? Do you have blinders on or

5 don't you have any vision? Don't you have

6 any hearing? My God, people, wake up.

7 Jesus, that's what you are getting paid for.

8 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.

9 MR. SPINDLER: Les Spindler, city

10 resident. Mrs. Fanucci, you have a lot of

11 nerve blaming the concerned citizens that

12 come here week after week for making this

13 like the Jerry Springer show when, in fact,

14 with all of the infighting on council as a

15 whole you are one body slam away from being

16 in the WWE.

17 Also, Mrs. Fanucci, you were the one

18 who called me into the hallway telling me to

19 stop asking why PEL has let Mayor Doherty

20 have a public safety director. You are the

21 one that won't answer people's questions.

22 You are the one who would earned a lot of

23 vote when it came time to replace Mr.

24 McTiernan, you are the who's constantly

25 giggling. As a matter of fact, when Dave


1 Gervasi left the podium last week you

2 proceeded to giggle. If you think anything

3 Dave Gervasi said last week is funny then I

4 really think you need psychiatric help.

5 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Spindler, please.

6 MR. SPINDLER: Don't waste my time,

7 please, this is my time.

8 MS. GATELLI: No, you are out of

9 order with that comment, Mr. Spindler.

10 MR. SPINDLER: As far as the shirts

11 are concerned, Mrs. Fanucci, the total spent

12 might have paid for one family to swim for

13 the summer. All that being said, to borrow

14 a line from a great letter to the editor for

15 Tuesday's Doherty newsletter, it's not the

16 Jerry Springer show it's the Sherry Springer

17 show.

18 Mr. McGoff, when you were

19 interviewed for this position you said you

20 were the best person for this job because

21 you had no future political aspirations, you

22 would just fill out the term. Now you

23 running for reelection, wouldn't you say you

24 misled the people?

25 MR. MCGOFF: Do you want a response?



2 MR. MCGOFF: No, I do not believe I

3 mislead the people.

4 MR. SPINDLER: I can't believe you

5 could say that with an open mind. And I

6 just have one more comment, I have a comment

7 for George Parker if he is watching, George,

8 newsflash, it's going to snow tomorrow and,

9 Mrs. Fanucci, you can giggle at that. That

10 was funny.

11 MS. GATELLI: Mike Dudek.

12 MR. DUDEK: Mike Dudek, 608 Depot

13 Street, Scranton PA, I live in the Plot.

14 This has probably been one of the more

15 infuriating council sessions I've had to sit

16 through. First of all, when you are elected

17 to local or I would even expand this to say

18 state government as well, you are so totally

19 naked you lose your contact lenses, by that

20 I mean this, there are two governing laws,

21 the Pennsylvania Sunshine Act and the

22 Federal Freedom of Information Act. Between

23 those two there is nothing the Doherty

24 administration can deny to Janet Evans

25 except one thing, Janet Evans cannot request


1 and the mayor cannot comply with giving her

2 personnel records, personnel matters, that

3 sort of thing, why a person is fired or

4 something like that. That is protected.

5 Everything else must be disclosed. Must be

6 disclosed. Absent that, there is nothing

7 you can do it about it which means that the

8 Doherty administration must give Ms. Evans

9 everything she requests and the question I

10 have to ask is why would you dare consider

11 trying to hem her in on what she needs?

12 As she described what she was

13 describing the council president pointed out

14 something that it had occurred to me at the

15 same time Mrs. Gatelli said it, it looks

16 like we maybe headed toward portraying this

17 administration as politically corrupt. If

18 the evidence points in that direction we

19 need all of that evidence. Absent your

20 support, Mrs. Evans has the recourse as a

21 citizen and as a council member to file suit

22 in Federal Court and in State Court for

23 these documents under the Sunshine Law and

24 the Freedom of Information Act and if you

25 decide to do that and I would pledge to you


1 a starting fee of $250 of my own money to

2 get your suit started. I think we may have

3 to go that direction, a citizens' suit. You

4 have standing to bring this in Court because

5 you are a council person. That alone gives

6 you have the standing to do this. The mayor

7 has no right to deny you anything that you

8 have been requesting so please remember that

9 as council people because if all you are

10 doing is leaving yourself open to the charge

11 of trying to conceal a possible issue of

12 corruption or if not corruption

13 misgovernment, incompetent government, we

14 are here to try to govern the city --

15 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.

16 MR. DUDEK: -- as best as we can.

17 Please honor Mrs. Evans' request for

18 everything she needs.

19 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Sam

20 Patilla.

21 MR. PATILLA: Sam Patilla, city

22 resident, taxpayer. I, for one, didn't

23 expect for council to pass a resolution for

24 the subpoenas, which in essence makes me

25 really happy because right now you guys just


1 opened the door for a federal prosecutor --

2 I mean, excuse me, the US attorney, all

3 right? Because see, I'm like this, if I

4 don't have anything to hide, my back door --

5 I never lock my house door, my doors stay

6 open, I'm an honest person. Mrs. Evans

7 isn't requesting anything from you people,

8 the citizens of Scranton are requesting

9 those files, all right? And like I said

10 before, Doherty is a crook, point-blank. I

11 will say it. I will say it. For him to --

12 before I got off track, the recycle bill, I

13 just got a $200 waste bill, all right?

14 Waste Management didn't come to my house

15 three weeks, who did I send that bill to

16 because I'm not going to give you $20 of my

17 money and you don't show up for work. Do I

18 give it to council, do I give it DPB or

19 Mayor Doherty, where does the bill go to,

20 you will get a bill?

21 All right, I have a sewer system in

22 front of my house there is a sink hole. A

23 sink hole and you have the audacity to sit

24 there and say you got an attitude because

25 you're getting called a name, you disrespect


1 these people every time you vote for that

2 man and when he goes down you are going down

3 along right with him. I keep my lawyer on

4 speed dial, don't let this fool you.

5 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Jacowicz?

6 MR. JACOWICZ: Yes, before I start

7 my five minutes, or three minutes, excuse

8 me, I would like to congratulate Attorney

9 Amil Minora from the D.A.'s Office for his

10 outstanding perform in the prosecution and

11 conviction of two murderers in Scranton,

12 Pennsylvania, within the last six-month

13 period of time, so I think that Amil Minora

14 deserves a round of applause and all of

15 citizens and the Scranton Police Department.

16 MR. MINORA: Thank you, but really

17 Scranton Police Department deserves the

18 credit. They did excellent investigations

19 in both cases and I really would like to the

20 commend police officers in the most recent

21 murder case because it was very difficult

22 for them emotionally and the case itself

23 just was fraught with bad things for them

24 and I'm glad they were vindicated by the

25 verdict and so the credit goes to them.


1 MR. JACOWICZ: Bill Jacowicz, South

2 Scranton resident, retired United States Air

3 Force. The following information is direct

4 from the Pennsylvania Department of Labor

5 and is accurate as of Tuesday, 13 March '07,

6 that was this Tuesday, so pay attention

7 because maybe you will learn something about

8 economic development. The jobless rate in

9 the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania,

10 area was up two-tenths of a percentage point

11 in January. That is positive news. Only

12 Williamsport has a higher unemployment rate

13 in the State's 14 metropolitan areas.

14 Scranton/Wilkes-Barre is no longer last, we

15 are second from last. The fastest growing

16 civilian labor force in Pennsylvania a month

17 at 14 month Pennsylvania EMSA areas is

18 Allentown, Bethlehem and Easton,

19 Pennsylvania, which by the way is only about

20 one hour away from the Scranton area. The

21 fastest decreasing, and I repeat decreasing

22 civilian labor force in Pennsylvania is the

23 Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area for the past ten

24 years.

25 I asked myself why. I believe it is


1 that the Chamber of Commerce and the elected

2 officials in Scranton have not worked hard

3 on trying to find good paying businesses and

4 jobs to locate in Scranton. All the efforts

5 that have been placed on small business such

6 as restaurants, coffee houses, bars, parking

7 garages, hotels, tree houses, bridges to

8 nowhere, office buildings that cost

9 $16 million and is still vacant although the

10 economic chairperson assured the residents

11 that two businesses would locate in the

12 Southern Union building in two weeks that

13 was May of 2006. Not here yet. Neither is

14 Mr. Austin Burke. When will the Southern

15 Union building get it's first tenant, but

16 yet last week the same person concentrated

17 during her broadcast on the fact that

18 citizens purchased Legion of Doom t-shirts

19 with the money they own, with their own

20 monies. Be happy that someone in Scranton

21 can afford the $6 for a t-shirt. Most

22 cannot. One out of every four citizens

23 residing in the Scranton area is below the

24 poverty level, but yet it seems that the

25 city leaders will concentrate on denying the


1 underprivileged children the opportunity to

2 swim in the public pool for free while their

3 children will swim in their private pools

4 for free.

5 Changes need to be made in the

6 economic situation of Scranton and the

7 Heritage Association has money, so they can

8 give it to the Radisson and not the

9 taxpayers. The Scranton Today program has

10 failed. Just remember, City Council,

11 Mr. Austin Burke, and Mayor Doherty, it is

12 the economy that drives the community, not

13 staged pictures in the Times Tribune, staged

14 pictures have no credibility just like the

15 people who publish these pictures and pose

16 for the pictures, no credibility.

17 Mr. Courtright, Mrs. Evans, remember,

18 it is better to die on your feet than to

19 live on your knees. That's a Chinese prover

20 proverb.

21 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.

22 MR. JACOWICZ: Thank you.

23 MR. LITWINSKY: Council, good

24 evening, again. John Litwinsky, Gordan

25 Avenue, Scranton. I'm going to do a little


1 refresher here on behalf of Mrs. Evans, she

2 was not here a few weeks ago when I was

3 speaking about this topic. I was here to

4 raise awareness and seek help on an issue

5 and that has to do with the place, a

6 facility called the Scranton Rescue Mission,

7 which is actually a drug and alcohol rehab

8 for the homeless, which was even stated on

9 the original application. There was nothing

10 stated about being a drug and alcohol rehab

11 which is at No. 8 to No. 12 Olive Street in

12 Scranton which is a block from the Scranton

13 High School and the Old Universal Printing

14 Facility. Reverend Schultz in being denied

15 twice in the variance has been in this place

16 for months operating even though he was

17 denied again. There was Philadelphia Court

18 in front of seven judges on March 7, we

19 don't know the reply to that yet.

20 Some things really bother me. I

21 think the biggest concern I have, again, is

22 safety of the children. The amount of

23 children that are on Olive Street that

24 travel on Olive Street, some of his quotes

25 from the Times that he stated he expects to


1 house 20 people which the beds are already

2 in there. He plans to bus them in there,

3 but the drop out is 70 to 75 percent, which

4 at 20 people is 14 to 15 people thrown right

5 out on Olive Street.

6 I came to city hall here last week

7 trying to get some answers, I did not get

8 any answers as far as an occupancy permit, a

9 general inspection was done, a fire

10 inspection, yet they installed windows and

11 new doors, there is no permits whatsoever.

12 When I asked I was told that there were

13 civil rights issues, I won't mention the

14 person's name, but I was told there was

15 civil rights issue and that it's a church.

16 According to what I looked up, I know I

17 even heard a local zoning regulations, a

18 church is required to have off-street

19 parking, there is no off-street parking. I

20 don't see how a general inspection was done.

21 The second story porch and the roof on the

22 white house there was rotted ready to fall

23 off. I'm just very curious how they could

24 be in there and operating without permits,

25 like, how did that happen?


1 MS. EVANS: Oh, it happens.

2 MR. LITWINSKY: But I don't

3 understand, I don't know, that means that

4 every homeowner, every contractor, every

5 businessman if they want to do anything on

6 their property they don't need permits

7 because we can just say we are a church. I

8 can say -- I can open a Methadone and a

9 strip club next to the high school, I can

10 say, "It's a church, I don't know need

11 permits," so I don't understand like why

12 people don't step up. I mean, they are

13 going to bus these people in here, they

14 don't adhere to the program, they are going

15 to throw them right out on Olive Street,

16 right there. I mean, where do they go?

17 They are not going to send them back home?

18 Yet this is still going on. I mean, they

19 can't be shut down over, you know, I'd like

20 to see, I'd like somebody to bring next week

21 is and show me the occupancy permit that a

22 general inspection was done, a fire safety

23 inspection or whatever else is necessary to

24 be claimed as a church.

25 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.


1 MR. LITWINSKY: Thank you.

2 MS. FANUCCI: Please, Kay, can you

3 send a letter asking that licensing and

4 inspection go in and the health inspector

5 goes into that facility, a little bit of an

6 inspection and see what happens from there?

7 Thank you.

8 MS. GATELLI: Ryan DeMuth.

9 MR. DEMUTH: Good evening, Council.

10 My name is Ryan DeMuth, and I'm a

11 tenth-grade student at West Scranton High

12 School. Today I'm here to talk about how

13 the West Scranton students are being looked

14 at negatively by some of the people in our

15 community for the actions of a few students

16 trying to get the smoking ban passed.

17 Recently I have noticed some negative

18 comments about West Scranton students in the

19 letters to the editor section of the

20 newspaper and on-line on message boards.

21 Some of these comments include that West

22 Scranton students should mind their own

23 business or that the West Scranton students

24 are messing things up for everyone else and

25 should leave things alone that that do


1 affect them.

2 I believe that is fine to have an

3 opposing opinion on the subject, but I hope

4 to get the people that are making these

5 comments to realize that it is not all West

6 Scranton students who wanted or tried to get

7 this ordinance passed. In reality, it was

8 only a few of the West Scranton tenth-grade

9 students who were involved in this. Yet, it

10 seems when people make these negative

11 comments they direct them to all West

12 Scranton students and this is not the case.

13 An example of this is I was told by

14 one of my teachers that a female told her

15 she was in a local restaurant eating with

16 her family. She was wearing a West Scranton

17 sweatshirt and when she getting up to leave

18 the restaurant a man made the comment to her

19 that we, meaning all West Scranton students,

20 were running things for everyone and that we

21 should leave adult matters to adults. This

22 girl was not one of the students who made an

23 effort to get the smoking ban passed. So

24 I'm not trying to stop people from having an

25 opposing opinion or feeling on the smoking


1 ban, neither am I asking anyone to stop

2 expressing their feelings on the topic, I'm

3 just trying to make people realize that

4 these negative comments on the West Scranton

5 students are not for all of us they are just

6 for a few of them. Thank you for your time.

7 MR. ROGAN: Pat Rogan, resident of

8 West Scranton. Each year over 1 million

9 illegal immigrants enter the United States,

10 most of them through the southern border.

11 Years ago, illegal immigration only affected

12 the southern border states and now cities

13 like Hazleton are being overrun with illegal

14 immigrants. Luckily, the mayor of Hazleton

15 and their council is willing to deal with

16 the problem.

17 Scranton, too, has a problem with

18 illegal immigrants, unfortunately to this

19 point nothing has been done about the

20 problem. When an illegal family moves into

21 Scranton the costs to educate their children

22 falls upon us, the paying taxpayers. When

23 an illegal immigrant needs emergency

24 services, again, we pay. Even worse, when

25 an illegal who is here illegally to begin


1 with breaks another one of our laws and

2 needs to be incarcerated we again foot the

3 bill to feed them and clothe them. Since

4 these people are here illegally they cannot

5 receive driver's license. I don't know

6 about you, but I don't feel comfortable

7 driving on streets with unlicensed drivers.

8 Since they can't have a license, they can't

9 get insurance and the last thing we need is

10 hundreds or even thousands of people driving

11 on our city streets without a driver's

12 license or car insurance.

13 My hope is that council will

14 consider protection from an Illegal

15 Immigration Act like the one Hazleton

16 passed. This bill should make English the

17 official language of Scranton, punish

18 landlords for only renting to illegal

19 immigrants, and revoke the business licenses

20 of merchants who knowingly employ them.

21 Thank you.

22 MR. HUBBARD: Good evening, Council,

23 Elizabeth Hubbard. Resident/taxpayer of

24 City of Scranton. I just have a couple of

25 comments in regards to 5-C on the agenda,


1 and you telling me that that money was

2 sitting there when Mr. Parker and Mr. Hayes

3 in front of the entire City Council at

4 Scranton High School in July that that money

5 was sitting there and they promised us

6 temporary flood protection and nothing has

7 been done to date. Why couldn't they have

8 used that money to pay a contractor to show

9 up and repair the banks and clean out the

10 storm sewers that are clogging up?

11 I mean, I'm just appalled. And I

12 think as far as the subpoenas that Janet

13 wants, I think she just wants to know our

14 where our money goes because the mayor just

15 keeps getting all of this money and nobody

16 knows where it goes.

17 Another issue, who sponsors the

18 supposedly family friendly St. Patrick's Day

19 Parade? Just the city --

20 MR. MCGOFF: Who sponsors it? It's

21 the St. Patrick's Day Parade Association.

22 MS. HUBBARD: Okay, who pays for the

23 cleanup of the mess created by the thousands

24 of drunks lurching and roaming the streets

25 and what is the cost of the cleanup?


1 MR. MCGOFF: That I do not know.

2 MS. HUBBARD: Well, could somebody

3 get me that answer say for next week?

4 MR. MCGOFF: I will try.

5 MS. HUBBARD: I have friends who have

6 stopped coming to the parade because of the

7 drunken -- the drunks roaming, vomiting,

8 urinating, etcetera, on the streets. What

9 kind of image does this present to people

10 coming here from out of town and to the

11 local citizens? It's supposed to be a

12 family friendly parade and it's disgusting

13 and now we have a young man missing? It's

14 like bizarre is the only word I can think

15 of. You know, the parade is nice. They

16 have a Veteran's Day parade, barely anybody

17 goes to it and that to me is a better reason

18 for a parade to honor the people that served

19 this country than it is for a holiday that

20 even isn't a holiday actually and the way I

21 understand it St. Patrick wasn't even Irish.

22 Anyway, that's all I have. I did read that.

23 MR. MCGOFF: I didn't hear you, I'm

24 sorry.

25 MS. HUBBARD: He was a Welshman.


1 MR. LYMAN: No, wait, he was

2 British.

3 MR. HUBBARD: Good evening, Council.

4 Daniel Hubbard --

5 MR. MCGOFF: Mr. Hubbard, may I just

6 respond to your mother for a moment?

7 MR. HUBBARD: Be my guest.

8 MR. MCGOFF: Just to respond, I

9 don't know what that money, what project it

10 was specifically for and I would say that I

11 will attempt to find that out where that was

12 and what specifically it was to be used for

13 and why it is being deleted.

14 MS. HUBBARD: The point I was making

15 is that Mr. Parker and Mr. Hayes, you were

16 not on council at the time --

17 MR. MCGOFF: I understand.

18 MS. HUBBARD: At that meeting he

19 promised us temporary protection and have

20 done nothing.

21 MR. MCGOFF: I understand and, like

22 I said, I will try to discern that

23 information for you.

24 MS. HUBBARD: I would appreciate

25 that.


1 MR. HUBBARD: Good evening, Council,

2 Daniel Hubbard. Everybody that watches

3 Council is quite aware of where I'm from,

4 lower Greenridge. Let's just say I had many

5 things written down tonight that I was going

6 to say on and go with them, but after

7 hearing what I heard when I walked in here

8 tonight I'm a little flustered.

9 First, I'd like to say what makes

10 council and the mayor thinks that we should

11 have to wait this out? Why should we have

12 to wait until the Army Corp of Engineers

13 comes in and does their project when they

14 delay the schedule, every year it gets

15 delayed by a year. If we get flooded this

16 year, we get flooded tonight or tomorrow or

17 this weekend they will put it off one more

18 year just like they did in 2004 and just

19 like they did in 2006. This project keeps

20 getting put off.

21 I can't even begin to follow my

22 notes, you know, it just -- considering the

23 tainted history of this current

24 administration and this council I would

25 think you that you people would be doing


1 anything you could to help the public to at

2 least save somewhat of respect for

3 yourselves. You have done nothing to help

4 lower Greenridge, you haven't done much to

5 help the city.

6 You know, do you honestly think that

7 the public doesn't see how you and your

8 family members are benefiting from the seats

9 you hold while you do nothing for the

10 residents or nothing for the city. You're

11 benefiting. Everybody in one way or the

12 other benefits. You are getting paid, your

13 family is getting jobs or your' re going to

14 run for office, but you're in one way or

15 another all of you up here are benefiting

16 from the taxpayers in one way or another.

17 You have done nothing in return.

18 Judy, you are allowing an entire

19 neighborhood to flood again and again. As

20 president of council you have done nothing

21 to help these residents that have been

22 flooded yet you expect the residents of the

23 City of Scranton to vote for your husband

24 when he runs for school board.

25 MS. GATELLI: That's inappropriate.


1 MR. HUBBARD: No, it's not.

2 MS. GATELLI: Yes, it is.

3 MR. HUBBARD: No, it's not.

4 MS. GATELLI: It's not city business.

5 MR. HUBBARD: Yes, it is.

6 MS. GATELLI: It is not city

7 business.

8 MR. HUBBARD: He's a candidate for

9 office. It's city business.

10 MS. GATELLI: It is not city

11 business.

12 MR. HUBBARD: He's a candidate for

13 office, it's city business. It's public

14 information.

15 MS. GATELLI: And he will be a fine

16 school director.

17 MR. HUBBARD: That's great.

18 MS. GATELLI: If he is elected.

19 MR. HUBBARD: Sure. You know, does

20 anybody have any suggestions to what I

21 should do tonight if we get flooded?

22 Anybody have any suggestions besides calling

23 1-800-GOD which was the most inappropriate

24 think you could have ever said to me, Judy.

25 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Hubbard --


1 MR. HUBBARD: The absolute --

2 MS. GATELLI: I did not --

3 MR. HUBBARD: The absolute --

4 MS. GATELLI: I was out there with

5 witnesses.

6 MR. HUBBARD: Witnesses? Stacy

7 Brown was standing right behind me.

8 MS. GATELLI: We are going to --

9 MR. HUBBARD: Woah, woah, woah. This

10 is not --

11 MS. GATELLI: I'm going to --

12 MR. HUBBARD: I asked you what I

13 should do if we get flooded tonight, you put

14 your cell phone in my face and you said,

15 "Call 1-800-GOD."

16 Regardless of what you asked me,

17 regardless of what you said to me about

18 Parker, you said that. Where is my letter

19 that I asked you last week to --

20 MS. GATELLI: There is no letter.

21 MR. HUBBARD: Then why did you say

22 it?

23 MS. GATELLI: I don't know what you

24 are talking about.

25 MR. HUBBARD: Then you listen to


1 their recording.

2 MS. GATELLI: I don't know what you

3 are talking about.

4 MR. HUBBARD: Listen to their

5 recording.

6 MS. GATELLI: There was no letter --

7 MR. HUBBARD: Listen to their

8 recording. You left your mic on, you didn't

9 turn it off, you made the comment, I heard

10 it.

11 MS. GATELLI: You can make all of

12 the allegations you want.

13 MS. HUBBARD: It's not an allegation,

14 it's on their tape.

15 MS. GATELLI: There is no letter.

16 MR. HUBBARD: It's on their tape.

17 MR. LYMAN: You're on tape, Mrs.

18 Gatelli.

19 MR. HUBBARD: It's on their tape,

20 Judy, they have it.

21 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.

22 MS. GATELLI: Your three minutes are

23 up and there is no letter.

24 MR. MINORA: The three minutes are

25 up.


1 MR. HUBBARD: I'm done, so whoever is

2 after me or goes after my mother can go

3 next. I'm done.

4 MS. SUETTA: Jean Suetta.

5 MS. GATELLI: What did you say? Did

6 you threaten me, Mr. Hubbard?

7 MR. HUBBARD: Ray Lyman asked me if I

8 needed the name of an attorney and I said,

9 "No, I'll take care of it."

10 MS. GATELLI: I thought you said you

11 were going to take care of me.

12 MR. HUBBARD: Please.

13 MS. HUBBARD: Judy, I raised him

14 better than that.

15 MS. SUETTA: Two weeks ago I was

16 going to come down but my friend had to put

17 her dog down and my priorities were with

18 her, when we were supposed to get that rain

19 two weeks ago with all of the ice, blah,

20 blah, I called DPW about the drainstorm

21 right there on Greenridge Street and they

22 said it was PennDOT, so they gave me

23 PennDOT's number, I called them, within ten

24 minutes there was three trucks with a

25 bulldozer, I almost had a heart attack. I


1 thought I had a fatal disease and nobody

2 told me about it. To get a response like

3 that in the city?

4 And that hole down by the riverbank

5 that you said is a drainage, sanitation,

6 it's a hole. It needs a manhole cover.

7 It's been like that since 2004 and we had

8 $281,000, don't you think we can afford a

9 manhole cover. The kids are coming from

10 Bancroft, going home what happens if one of

11 them -- they're nosey, I know them, one of

12 them goes down there. Go down by the bridge

13 you will see it, you will see the blue bell,

14 all it needs is a manhole cover.

15 MR. COURTRIGHT: Jean, we've asked

16 for over a year about that, I just can't get

17 a response.

18 MS. SUETTA: They have the manhole

19 covers down at DPW. Get Kake, he could come

20 up with his fingers. He will bring one

21 over.

22 MR. COURTRIGHT: Who's that?

23 MS. SUETTA: Kake. Raymond Kakareka.

24 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't know why

25 they haven't responded, we asked many times.


1 MS. FANUCCI: Jean, I'll call down

2 there tomorrow or the next day, I'm hoping

3 that it's soon, maybe tomorrow --

4 MS. SUETTA: I'm going to call

5 Parker. If I get his voicemail again --

6 MS. FANUCCI: I said, if you get his

7 voicemail tomorrow that Mr. Hubbard is

8 instructed to call me right away and we will

9 go down and get him to come with us.

10 MS. SUETTA: And when are they going

11 to do the ice hockey steps?


13 work?

14 MS. FANUCCI: Pardon me? Do you have

15 a question?


17 don't you work.

18 MS. GATELLI: Don't answer the

19 audience.

20 MS. FANUCCI: I can go at lunch time

21 like everyone else.

22 MS. SUETTA: When are you going to

23 clean the ice off the steps? City hall, you

24 got a bag of quick salt there and nobody is

25 throwing it on the ice, it's right out in


1 front and I got to say hello to Tootsie and

2 then I'm gone. Have a good night. Did I

3 take the three minutes? You owe me.

4 MS. GATELLI: David Doblin. He is

5 not here?

6 MR. UNGVARSKY: I'm Tom Ungvarsky, I

7 live in Scranton. Mrs. Gatelli, I

8 understand that Mr. Jacowicz has the same

9 statement on tape. Thank you.

10 MS. PABESKY: Good evening, Council,

11 this my first time up here, I'm nervous and

12 just bear with me, please. My name is

13 Barbara Pabesky, I'm a citizen of Scranton

14 and a taxpaying resident and I'm here

15 because it was once said that the only thing

16 for evil to succeed is for the good man to

17 do nothing. I have done nothing long

18 enough. Again, please pardon me if I seem

19 mixed up because, again, I'm nervous, I have

20 health problems, some of them due to an

21 accident I had over a year ago and some

22 because I made some bad choices, one of them

23 a lung tumor, however, I think what you are

24 all doing is wrong.

25 The Bill of Rights guarantees me the


1 right to choose. In the Monroe Doctrine it

2 states that the people of America alone have

3 the right to choose their own destiny. It

4 also states that the world belongs to not

5 one man, but to all men. That means you

6 have a choice, you have a choice, you have a

7 choice. You have a choice whether to go

8 into a restaurant that allows smoking or

9 not.

10 My daughter gets sick from the smell

11 of fish, you won't find her in Cooper's, but

12 she has to make that choice. She has to say

13 to her husband, "I get sick, I don't want to

14 go to Cooper's."

15 If you want a pizza you're probably

16 not going to go to Cooper's, you are going

17 to go to a pizza parlor. My husband gets

18 sick from garlic. We don't go to the Olive

19 Garden, but that's our choices.

20 And I don't know, I have a son that

21 fought in Iraq, he doesn't believe in

22 smoking, my other two children don't either,

23 but he is still over in Iraq fighting so

24 those people have the same rights that we

25 are supposed to have, and that's about all I


1 have to say on smoking.

2 Also, the tax, I'm kind of upset

3 about that. My husband had to go back to

4 work, he is disabled, he got social security

5 and a pension. Not only have the taxes gone

6 up, but the utilities have gone up. I have

7 no insurance so he had to go to work. Our

8 taxes are $25 less than one month's income

9 and that is killing us, and I just don't

10 think, you know, it's about time that

11 everybody up there and the rest of the

12 people that run the city, everyone started

13 thinking about the disabled people, started

14 thinking about the children, started

15 thinking about people that are on social

16 security. It really hurts.

17 And I have one last request, and my

18 husband asked me to ask.

19 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.

20 MS. PABESKY: Pike Street has not

21 been paved in over 20 years, could you see

22 if you could do something about it, please?

23 MR. COURTRIGHT: I put that request

24 in several times. They did some patching, I

25 know that they are working on it. I'll put


1 it again this year. Mr. Parker had gave men

2 a breakdown, mechanized patching, a

3 breakdown of the cost to pave it, I'll put

4 it for you. A gentleman has talked to me

5 hundreds of times about it, so I'll try

6 again.

7 MS. PABESKY: Thank you.

8 MR. COURTRIGHT: You're welcome.

9 MR. LYMAN: Raymond Lyman. Mrs.

10 Gatelli, two weeks ago my friend Max and I

11 wrote two letters, five-page letters, one to

12 the federal attorney general and one to the

13 ACLU about this mayor and the city council,

14 four of the city council members, violation

15 of civil rights and not Mrs. Evans, but the

16 other four. You took our rights away with

17 this ridiculous four minutes, fighting with

18 people, not giving us answers and telling

19 people you are out of order. Ridiculous.

20 I'll wait for a response from the federal

21 attorney general and ACLU and once I get

22 that I'm going to find out what to do with

23 the federal attorney general and then I'm

24 going to talk to my lawyer about possible

25 everytime I come up here you always saying


1 I'm out of order, well, I'm going to think

2 about suing the city about that violation of

3 my civil rights because I think it's kind of

4 ridiculous.

5 Now, I want to ask a few questions,

6 Mrs. Gatelli. You said a couple of weeks

7 ago, now, I don't want you screaming and

8 hollering at me, but I tape every meeting

9 since this city council started, but you

10 said now that your husband wasn't running

11 for office.


13 MR. LYMAN: But in the newspaper --

14 MS. GATELLI: You can call my husband

15 and ask him. Ask him.

16 MR. LYMAN: Oh, I talked to your

17 husband --

18 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, well, call him

19 and ask him.

20 MR. LYMAN: Your husband said if I--

21 MS. GATELLI: I have nothing to do

22 with his decision.

23 MS. LYMAN: Okay, wait, Mrs. Gatelli,

24 if I wrote on his petition that my street

25 could have got plowed --


1 MS. GATELLI: You're a liar.

2 MR. LYMAN: I'm not a liar.

3 MS. GATELLI: My husband doesn't even

4 know you.

5 MR. LYMAN: He didn't know who I

6 was --

7 MS. GATELLI: And he did not ask you

8 to sign his petition.

9 MR. LYMAN: -- He did not know who I

10 was, Mrs. Gatelli.

11 MS. GATELLI: You are lying. Please.

12 MR. LYMAN: Once he knew my name he

13 didn't want my name on his petition --


15 MR. LYMAN: -- Mrs. Gatelli. Once

16 he knew who I was --

17 MS. GATELLI: You are lying, Mr.

18 Lyman.

19 MR. LYMAN: You calling me a liar?

20 MS. GATELLI: Yes, I'm calling you a

21 liar.

22 MR. LYMAN: Well, you can call me a

23 liar -- what you want, but --

24 MS. GATELLI: I'm calling you a

25 liar.


1 MR. LYMAN: -- he wanted my name on

2 his petition --

3 MS. GATELLI: And that's very

4 inappropriate to say those things.

5 MR. LYMAN: Well, you can say that,

6 but he said if I had his name on his

7 petition I could have my street plowed--

8 MS. GATELLI: Oh, really?

9 MR. LYMAN: -- and Capouse Avenue

10 paved.

11 MS. GATELLI: Oh, that's great.

12 MR. LYMAN: That's what he said.

13 MS. GATELLI: That's great. Did you

14 sign it?

15 MR. LYMAN: No.

16 MS. GATELLI: You didn't want that

17 the street paved that badly, did you?

18 MR. LYMAN: No, because I'm waiting

19 for when Lee, you know, I'm waiting for when

20 Lee Morgan and Andy Sbaraglia take over Bill

21 Courtright's seat and Mr. McGoff to get rid

22 of those two. Mr. Courtright, I have a

23 couple of questions to ask you.


25 MR. LYMAN: Mr. Courtright, do you


1 remember when you voted, and you can answer

2 this after I sit down --

3 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.

4 MS. GATELLI: Your time is up.

5 MR. LYMAN: Well, I want to ask these

6 questions.

7 MS. GATELLI: Your time is up.

8 MR. LYMAN: Well, no, I'm going to

9 ask these questions.

10 MS. GATELLI: You are out of order,

11 Mr. Lyman.

12 MR. LYMAN: No, I'm going to ask

13 these questions, Mrs. Gatelli.

14 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Lyman --

15 MR. LYMAN: Well, I'm going to ask

16 these questions.

17 MS. GATELLI: Please stop. You are

18 out of order.

19 MR. LYMAN: Mr. Courtright--

20 MS. GATELLI: You are out of order.

21 MR. LYMAN: -- do you remember the

22 five point five --

23 MS. GATELLI: Officer, would you

24 please remove him? Now, this is the second

25 time. Please remove him.


1 MR. LYMAN: Well, I'm going to file a

2 lawsuit.

3 MS. GATELLI: Go ahead. File all of

4 the lawsuits you want. Your time is up.

5 MR. LYMAN: Well, I want to see him

6 arrest me. Let me see him arrest me.

7 MS. GATELLI: You need to respect

8 everyone else.

9 MR. LYMAN: Well, I want to see him

10 arrest me.

11 MS. GATELLI: They need a turn.

12 MR. LYMAN: I'm going to see him

13 arrest me on TV. I want to see him arrest

14 me.


16 down.

17 MR. LYMAN: No, I want to see him

18 arrest me. I want to see him arrest me.

19 Are you going to have me arrested, Mrs.

20 Gatelli?

21 MS. GATELLI: I told you to get away

22 from the podium, your time is up.

23 MR. LYMAN: No, I want to see him

24 arrest me on TV. It's election year.

25 MR. MCGOFF: Turn the cameras off.


1 MR. LYMAN: I want to see you arrest

2 me.

3 MR. COURTRIGHT: Raymond, please.

4 Come me.

5 MR. MCGOFF: No, tell them to turn

6 the cameras off. I'm not going to have this

7 on tape.

8 MR. LYMAN: I want to see him arrest

9 me.


11 going to see him arrest you, sit down.

12 MR. LYMAN: And then I will file a

13 lawsuit with the City of Scranton violation

14 of my civil rights.

15 MS. GATELLI: I make a motion that we

16 adjourn the meeting.

17 MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.

18 MR. LYMAN: And I'm going to file a

19 lawsuit.

20 MS. GATELLI: All those in favor?

21 MS. EVANS: Aye.

22 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.


24 MR. MCGOFF: Aye.

25 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.



2 C E R T I F I C A T E


4 I hereby certify that the proceedings and

5 evidence are contained fully and accurately in the

6 notes of testimony taken by me at the hearing of the

7 above-captioned matter and that the foregoing is a true

8 and correct transcript of the same to the best of my

9 ability.