1


1 SCRANTON CITY COUNCIL MEETING

2

3

4

5 Held:

6 Thursday, March 8, 2007

7

8

9 Time:

10 6:30 p.m.

11

12

13 Location:

14 Council Chambers

15 Scranton City Hall

16 340 North Washington Avenue

17 Scranton, Pennsylvania

18

19

20

21

22

23 Lisa M. Graff, RMR

24 Court Reporter

25
.

2


1 CITY OF SCRANTON COUNCIL:

2

3 MR. WILLIAM COURTRIGHT, VICE-PRESIDENT

4

5 MS. JANET EVANS

6

7 MS. SHERRY NEALON FANUCCI

8

9 MR. ROBERT MCGOFF

10

11 MR. AMIL MINORA, ESQUIRE, SOLICITOR

12

13 MS. KAY GARVEY, CITY CLERK

14

15 MR. NEIL COOLICAN, ASSISTANT CITY CLERK

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25
.

3


1 MR. COURTRIGHT: Okay. Please stand

2 for the Pledge Of Allegiance. Please remain

3 standing for a moment of reflection. Before

4 we start, Mr. Minora just informed us that

5 Mrs. Gatelli is not going to be here this

6 evening, so we'll be minus one. Kay.

7 MS. GARVEY: Roll call, Neil.

8 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

9 MS. EVANS: Here.

10 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.

11 MS. FANUCCI: Here.

12 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McGoff.

13 MR. MCGOFF: Here.

14 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.

15 MR. COURTRIGHT: Here.

16 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

17 MR. MCGOFF: In the absence of Mrs.

18 Gatelli, I would like to make a motion to

19 appoint Mr. Courtright as the temporary

20 chairman on rules.

21 MS. EVANS: Second.

22 MR. COURTRIGHT: On the question?

23 All in favor.

24 MS. EVANS: Aye.

25 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Aye.
.

4


1 MR. MCGOFF: Aye.

2 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye. So ordered.

3 3-A.

4 MS. GARVEY: Dispense with the

5 reading of the minutes. Third order. 3-A,

6 MINUTES OF THE POLICE PENSION COMMISSION

7 MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 24, 2007.

8 MR. COURTRIGHT: Are there any

9 comments? If not, received and filed.

10 MS. GARVEY: 3-B, MINUTES OF THE

11 FIREMEN'S PENSION COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON

12 JANUARY 24, 2007.

13 MR. COURTRIGHT: Are there any

14 comments? If not, received and filed.

15 MS. GARVEY: 3-C, APPLICATIONS AND

16 DECISIONS RENDERED BY THE ZONING HEARING

17 BOARD MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 28, 2007.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: Are there any

19 comments? If not, received and filed.

20 MS. GARVEY: 3-D, SCRANTON SCHOOL

21 DISTRICT'S GENERAL FUND BUDGET FOR THE YEAR

22 2007.

23 MR. COURTRIGHT: Are there any

24 comments? If not, received and filed.

25 Fourth order. Citizens participation Part
.

5


1 One. I'm assuming this is a joke. Somebody

2 put down Pete Moss, so the first name would

3 be Fay Franus.

4 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: And they don't

5 want me to laugh.

6 MS. FRANUS: That's how stupid I am.

7 I said, Who's Pete Moss, I never heard of

8 him. Stupid. What grade did I go to?

9 Anyway, I just wanted to ask, why is

10 there hardly anything on the agenda anymore

11 for the last couple of weeks of over a

12 month? I mean, there's nothing there any

13 more.

14 MR. COURTRIGHT: I've been wondering

15 that myself. It's has been four or five

16 weeks.

17 MS. FRANUS: There has to be an

18 answer to that.

19 MS. EVANS: Actually I think it's

20 been now longer than that.

21 MS. FRANUS: Right.

22 MS. EVANS: And I began my fourth

23 year as a seated Councilwoman in 2007, and

24 in the three years prior to that, I have

25 experienced quite a full plate in January,
.

6


1 February, March, actually every month, so I

2 find this highly unusual, to say the least,

3 very questionable, and I wonder who is

4 running the city.

5 MS. FRANUS: Exactly. It's like

6 we're a ghost town.

7 MS. EVANS: I mean, who's working

8 with whom here?

9 MS. FRANUS: Who's working behind

10 closed doors here. What's getting done

11 behind our back, is my point?

12 I mean, this can't be -- if the city

13 is running with no legislation, nothing

14 coming in front of Council, it makes you

15 wonder, doesn't it?

16 MS. EVANS: Well, it certainly makes

17 me wonder.

18 MS. FRANUS: So, how do we correct

19 something like this? I mean, how do we get

20 to the bottom of this? I mean, this is not

21 a coincidence.

22 MS. EVANS: The Council President is

23 in charge of Council's agenda. Most of the

24 legislation is sent -- actually 99 percent

25 of legislation is sent to Council from the
.

7


1 administration, from the mayor's office, and

2 that legislation is drawn up on his request,

3 and then it is provided to the Council

4 President, who peruses it and decides which

5 items, all or some, will make Council's

6 weekly agenda.

7 So, I would assume that it would be

8 the Council President who would need to have

9 the discussion with the mayor as to how the

10 city is apparently operating minus one

11 branch of government.

12 MS. FRANUS: I would think that Mrs.

13 Gatelli should have addressed this a long

14 time ago, and she hasn't said a word about

15 it.

16 MR. COURTRIGHT: Kay, maybe we can

17 ask Mrs. Gatelli, when you speak to her this

18 week, to call up and find out what's going

19 on, because I'm curious myself. I've never

20 seen this much time go by without any

21 legislation.

22 MS. FRANUS: It makes it very

23 questionable.

24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Absolutely.

25 MS. FRANUS: And I personally don't
.

8


1 think the people are ever going to know the

2 real reason, because there's always going to

3 be a coverup, as usual. We'll never hear

4 the truth, but this has just gone on too

5 long.

6 MR. COURTRIGHT: Well, we'll ask and

7 see what we hear.

8 MS. FRANUS: But let's try doing

9 that and let's see how much luck you have.

10 MR. COURTRIGHT: Okay.

11 MS. FRANUS: Thank you.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. That's

13 it. Is there anyone else?

14 MS. KRAKE: My name is Nancy Krake.

15 I'd like to also say the same thing. I'm

16 very concerned that there hasn't been

17 anything on the agenda.

18 I truly would love to see the fund

19 transfers back on the agenda. I hope

20 Council makes every effort to find out why

21 there isn't any legislation, and I'm also

22 concerned, because it seems to have tied

23 into how our speaking time was changed, and

24 I'm wondering if there's anything behind

25 that.
.

9


1 It's very disheartening to think

2 that certain members of Council do not want

3 to hear what the public has to say. And if

4 this is simply a trick to limit what we have

5 to say, I find that extremely sad. Thank

6 you.

7 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. Is

8 there anyone else?

9 MR. JACKOWITZ: Yeah, Bill

10 Jackowitz. I have the same question. I've

11 been coming here for a year and a half, and

12 the agenda used to have as many as 10, 12

13 items on it, now we have one item, and now

14 no items.

15 And I have the same question, is it

16 because speakers are now allowed three

17 minutes to speak on agenda items so the

18 reason to circumvent that is don't put

19 anything on?

20 MR. COURTRIGHT: You know, Mr.

21 Jackowitz, as Mrs. Evans said, 99 percent of

22 the legislation comes from the

23 administration, so I don't think there's

24 anyone sitting here that really knows the

25 answer. And the best we can probably do is
.

10


1 ask and hope that we get a reasonable

2 answer.

3 MR. JACKOWITZ: That's all we're

4 asking for is to ask and give us a

5 reasonable answer.

6 And another thing is, I want to know

7 why the subpoena is not on the agenda.

8 MR. COURTRIGHT: We --

9 MS. EVANS: I --

10 MS. EVANS: If you'd rather, Mr.

11 Courtright.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Go ahead.

13 MS. EVANS: I was absent from last

14 week's Council meeting, Mr. Minora was

15 absent the prior week; however, just this

16 evening during our caucus prior to the

17 regular meeting, Mr. Minora gave each of us

18 a copy of the resolutions that, I believe,

19 will be on Council's agenda next week for

20 its first reading.

21 I don't believe that Mrs. Gatelli,

22 because of her absence tonight, was given a

23 copy of this, so certainly she has to have

24 the opportunity to see it as well, and it's

25 my hope that the Council members will
.

11


1 provide their input prior to Tuesday, which

2 is when the agenda for next Thursday's

3 meeting must be published for the public,

4 and I'm hoping very much, if I have anything

5 to do with it, it will be on the agenda next

6 week.

7 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay. Thank you,

8 Mrs. Evans, for your very informative

9 answer. It's very well appreciated.

10 And also, just some food for

11 thought, a $394,000 snow removal overtime

12 bill, plus contractors?

13 MR. COURTRIGHT: You have to wait

14 until next time.

15 MR. JACKOWITZ: No, I'm just saying.

16 There's a good need for subpoenas.

17 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. Anyone

18 else? Lee.

19 MR. MORGAN: I'd just like to ask

20 one question, and that question is, I'd like

21 you to tell us who Mr. Robert Shumaker is,

22 and maybe you can explain who he is and what

23 experience and what knowledge he's going to

24 bring to the zoning appeals board in the

25 City of Scranton, because I really
.

12


1 appreciate the fact that we have three

2 minutes to ask questions, so maybe somebody

3 will use some of that time to tell us

4 something about this man.

5 MR. COURTRIGHT: He was a gentleman

6 -- basically zoning is the only board that

7 we appoint to, when I say we, I mean City

8 Council, and Mr. Shumaker was an appointment

9 of -- somebody recommended his name and we

10 all voted on it, and I believe he was an

11 alternate and now he's moving into the

12 permanent position because we lost one

13 individual.

14 MS. EVANS: And, Mr. Courtright, do

15 we have any proposals now for the

16 appointment as alternate?

17 MR. COURTRIGHT: We have one

18 alternate there and we need to make an

19 appointment for another alternate, yes, we

20 do.

21 Actually I have one gentleman that's

22 interested, but Mrs. Gatelli wasn't here

23 this evening, so I didn't bring it up in

24 caucus.

25 Most certainly, and I'm sure we'll
.

13


1 get flooded when I say this, if anybody is

2 interested in the alternate, if you would

3 just bring your name into Council's office

4 and we'll discuss it, and we have to put

5 somebody on there, so anybody interested,

6 please bring your name in.

7 MS. EVANS: Well, perhaps maybe in

8 addition to their name, a letter of

9 interest, and let's include, not exactly a

10 resume, but perhaps what your experiential

11 background might be, your professional

12 service, your employment, et cetera, so that

13 we can better judge.

14 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yes. The one

15 gentleman that I recommended in the past,

16 and he's the alternate now, Mr. Dominguez, I

17 recommended him because of his ability to

18 read blue prints and to understand how

19 structures are supposed to be maintained in

20 the city.

21 I'm not saying that you have to have

22 that kind of experience, but it would help.

23 So, I guess we'll probably have quite a few

24 of those coming in, Kay, I would imagine.

25 Anyone else? No? Okay. Fifth order, Kay.
.

14


1 MS. GARVEY: 5-A, motions.

2 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mrs. Evans.

3 MS. EVANS: Good evening. Let's

4 begin with a few announcements. The Upper

5 Hill Ecumenical Committee invites you to

6 Friendly's Restaurant on Tuesday, March 13

7 between five and 8 p.m.

8 All profits will be benefit The

9 Upper Hill Food Pantry, which feeds between

10 50 to 65 families per month.

11 Dress For Success is asking for our

12 help. Please donate one new or nearly new

13 interview-quality suit next week from

14 March 11 through 17th to provide low-income

15 women the chance to enter the workforce.

16 Dress For Success is located at 116

17 North Washington Avenue, Sweet 3-E. Any

18 questions, call 941-0339.

19 I wish to congratulate Mr. Dave

20 Morgan, a West Scranton High School

21 graduate, for winning the Division Three

22 National Wrestling Championship, and I ask

23 Council to recognize him with a

24 proclamation.

25 On National Women's Day, I wish to
.

15


1 congratulate the Scranton High Lady Knights

2 basketball team who won their district

3 championship, and, again, I ask Council to

4 recognize this great team with a

5 proclamation.

6 On Monday, March 5, the Scranton

7 High School Scholastic Bowl team won first

8 place in the NEIU 19 Scholastic Bowl

9 Competition and earned the right to compete

10 in the state competition at the capital

11 building in Harrisburg in April.

12 Again, I'm proud to recognize my

13 students Lauren Mersch, Mark Cannon, Rachel

14 Fogley, Michael Garzarella and Nathan

15 Stevens.

16 My thanks to Mr. Jeff Brazil for

17 responding to Mrs. Robertson's idea for the

18 painting of a mural at the Connell Park pool

19 house, and I will have her contact Mr.

20 Brazil to review this site before the actual

21 work begins.

22 I also thank Mr. Wallace for

23 responding in writing to Mr. Curry regarding

24 a car repair business on North Main Avenue.

25 But, Kay, I would ask for a letter,
.

16


1 please, to Solicitor Penetar of the zoning

2 board. I would like to know if a variance

3 once granted to the owner of a building and

4 property remains in effect for the duration

5 of that individual's ownership of the

6 property or is there some type of expiration

7 date with regard to variances?

8 Also, Kay, please send the following

9 correspondences: A letter to Mr. Parker

10 advising him of the traffic study conducted

11 by PennDOT at South Main Avenue and

12 Dartmouth Street. Ask him to determine the

13 required distances for South Main Avenue off

14 Dartmouth Street and forward that

15 information to Council A.S.A.P.

16 PennDOT incidentally directed the

17 city over a year ago to do exactly that, and

18 the wording was underlined, that the city

19 must implement these no parking signs, yet

20 for whatever reason, the city has failed to

21 listen to PennDOT.

22 A letter to Mr. Gerald Cross,

23 executive director of PEL, a second request

24 for a copy of the letter sent to Mayor

25 Doherty from PEL that suggests the mayor
.

17


1 accept the arbitrator's decision regarding

2 the police department.

3 Their responses to Council has

4 always been timely, but in this case, I

5 request this response for the second time by

6 March 21, 2007.

7 MS. GARVEY: Okay. If I could just

8 interrupt there for one minute.

9 MS. EVANS: Certainly.

10 MS. GARVEY: Mr. Cross did call

11 back, it wasn't this week it may have been

12 last week, I really don't remember the date

13 that he did, and he was wondering if we

14 might be able to help him out a little bit

15 further with some more information as to

16 when that letter -- what it was dated, what

17 was it, so that he would know if he could

18 find it, you can more than --

19 MS. EVANS: I'll try to ascertain

20 that information for him, but, again, I've

21 never seen the letter.

22 MS. GARVEY: Right.

23 MS. EVANS: If I had, I wouldn't be

24 asking him for the copy of the letter, so

25 I'll do my best.
.

18


1 MS. GARVEY: Right.

2 MS. EVANS: But in the meantime, I

3 would suggest that he keep looking.

4 MS. GARVEY: Okay.

5 MS. EVANS: Thank you. A second

6 letter to George Parker requesting snow

7 removal expenses. This request was made by

8 A unanimous motion of City Council, and

9 Council, I believe, should receive the

10 information before The Scranton Times.

11 And if we can put a deadline on that

12 of March 19, since Mr. Parker failed to

13 respond to the original deadline, and that,

14 of course, includes all of the contractors'

15 bills, as well, what the city is being

16 billed from them.

17 MS. GARVEY: Okay, just if I

18 interrupt one more time, Mr. Parker talked

19 to me this week about another question that

20 was asked, and I asked him your question

21 once again about that, and he said that he

22 did not have that information at his

23 disposal as of yet.

24 MS. EVANS: Well, I would assume it

25 should be in his hands by then, only because
.

19


1 I think that when an individual or a company

2 performs a service, they're not going to

3 wait months to present you with the bill.

4 In fact, in my own experience, if I

5 have a, let's say, a plumber or an

6 electrician, the bill is presented to me

7 immediately and payment is expected

8 immediately. And, so, I would assume that

9 these companies will follow suit.

10 Furthermore, numerous citizens

11 request recycling cans. The DPW tells them

12 that they, the DPW, haven't had them in

13 years, at least since 2003, I believe.

14 Now, the city engages in a recycling

15 program, yet it doesn't make sense to give

16 recycling cans to the residents?

17 So, does the DPW intend to make such

18 a purchase? If so, please have Mr. Parker

19 provide a date.

20 Also, a letter to Comcast requesting

21 a financial report for the first quarter of

22 2007 and a projection for the second

23 quarter.

24 A very impressive speaker presented

25 a viable solution to funding issues
.

20


1 affecting Channel 61. Mr. Osborne proposed

2 that any surplus beyond the budgeted revenue

3 received from Comcast should be given to

4 Channel 61 to fulfill Council's financial

5 pledge to this television station.

6 After receiving the data from

7 Comcast, I believe Council can amend the

8 2007 operating budget to add an account and

9 line item for support of Channel 61 using a

10 surplus from the cable franchise.

11 A letter to Mr. Fiorini, when will

12 1207 Cedar Avenue, a condemned property, be

13 demolished?

14 Last week the mayor delivered his

15 annual State of the City Address, and once

16 again, he did so at the Chamber of Commerce,

17 despite a unanimous motion passed by City

18 Council requesting that he present his

19 address in Council chambers.

20 In his address, the mayor makes a

21 lofty comparison between the state of

22 Scranton in 2007 and the United States in

23 1937.

24 However inspiring the words of FDR

25 are, there is more contrast than comparison
.

21


1 when they are applied to the state of

2 Scranton.

3 Under Mr. Doherty's stewardship, the

4 city's long-term debt has ballooned to

5 roughly a quarter of a billion dollars, and

6 taxes have been increased, unemployment in

7 the region is high, and a quarter of our

8 Scranton citizens live at or below the

9 poverty level. FDR pulled the nation out of

10 the great depression.

11 Furthermore, the mayor borrowing

12 from everyone, including FDR, claims to be

13 helping our poor, despite the fact that he

14 just raised taxes and refuses to allow

15 children to swim for free.

16 He touts accomplishments, such as

17 The Kanjorski Bridge and the tree house at

18 Nay Aug Park. I support these endeavors,

19 but not when The Rockwell Avenue Bridge is

20 unsafe for fire trucks and our citizens'

21 houses continue to be flooded.

22 The road ahead should face flooding

23 issues, infrastructure repairs and paying

24 down the Doherty debt.

25 If the mayor's road includes more
.

22


1 borrowing, more tax increases and more

2 cutting of services, we should indeed turn

3 our backs on it.

4 Perhaps Mr. Doherty doesn't want to

5 deliver his address in Council chambers,

6 because he is afraid to face these issues

7 and the real people, senior citizens,

8 working families, taxpayers, who suffer from

9 his gross mismanagement of our city, yet out

10 of the corner of his mouth, he tries to sell

11 us on working together.

12 For example, the mayor claims

13 there's no need for subpoenas, information

14 is available to anyone and can be obtained

15 simply by asking for it, he's in his office

16 until 5:30, yet I have visited his office

17 and department heads several times, and I

18 have received no information.

19 Mr. Doherty's response is not

20 credible, in fact, he sounds like an

21 automated telephone service.

22 The subpoena is necessary because I

23 can't obtain information for the people of

24 this city, and I really can't understand why

25 the subpoena resolution hadn't made
.

23


1 Council's agendas prior to this, but more

2 importantly, as was mentioned before, I

3 can't understand why weekly agendas have

4 been so bear in 2007.

5 And as I asked before, who is

6 running this city? Who is working together?

7 If you listen to the mayor his

8 favorite pronouns are, I, me, my, and mine,

9 my city, my downtown.

10 Well, Mr. Mayor, unless you are

11 writing personal checks for downtown

12 projects, KOZs and park improvements,

13 Scranton belongs to all of us.

14 Finally I was unable to attend last

15 week's meeting because of illness, however,

16 I watched the meeting on Channel 61 and

17 heard Mrs. Gatelli's closing apology for

18 having raised taxes, justifying her decision

19 by stating that taxes have been increased

20 only twice in 17 years.

21 Well, just because you haven't

22 robbed someone in many years doesn't make it

23 right to do it again. That, my friends, is

24 faulty logic.

25 If you had examined and approved my
.

24


1 budget, Mrs. Gatelli, there wouldn't have

2 been a tax increase.

3 Scranton has the second highest wage

4 tax in Pennsylvania, high mercantile taxes,

5 an EMS Tax, and now raised property taxes.

6 People couldn't afford any more

7 taxes, despite any apologies for having

8 approved the $10 million in borrowing, and

9 the tax increase, and any promise never to

10 do it again. That's it.

11 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. Mrs.

12 Fanucci.

13 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I, too, was

14 concerned about the amounts that the storm

15 actually costed the taxpayers of the city,

16 so I did call DPW.

17 Mr. Parker claims and says that he

18 -- his numbers that he sent to The Scranton

19 Times were inaccurate.

20 So, what he said was $55,000, he did

21 not give me any written material, this was

22 over the phone, so $55,000 was on overtime

23 for DPW, $99,000 was for the rental

24 equipment and for drivers. And that was the

25 total of the storm.
.

25


1 When I asked what -- where the

2 figures had come from in the first place, he

3 had said that it was miss -- he misread and

4 miscalculated. So, that was pretty much the

5 answer I received, also. So, I don't know

6 if that helps, but that's what I got

7 tonight.

8 He said he's going to send us the

9 exact amount, who, when, where, and I know

10 that we had added -- he had added two people

11 on the list, right, that were working?

12 MS. EVANS: Yes.

13 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Okay. Okay.

14 So, he did clarify that again today. In

15 response to the paper with PEL, they were

16 claiming -- now, today I had done the same

17 thing, I had asked for the same response,

18 what is going on, was this letter written.

19 They had claimed that this letter

20 was not written, but they were going to keep

21 looking. So, that's as far as I got. Yeah,

22 so that's as far as I got with that, also.

23 I want to thank Mark Seitzinger.

24 There was a home in the Hill Section that

25 was leaning, and I want to thank him for his
.

26


1 quick response for the children in that yard

2 and some action that he had taken to help

3 out that family and the taxpayers in the

4 hill.

5 Also, I want to thank the policemen

6 for replying to a great fast comment. I had

7 to call them on Sunday. Someone was trying

8 to rip down a home with a backhoe just off

9 the cuff, no permit, nothing, and they did

10 go over and stop them, and I want to thank

11 them, because that could have been really

12 tragic.

13 When I went down and saw what was

14 going on, there could have been a lot of

15 people hurt, and they acted fast for me, and

16 I want to thank them for that, also.

17 One more thing I have, I just want

18 to say -- I have to respond. You know, week

19 after week I sit here, and I know that my

20 snickering for some reason seems to be --

21 spending your three minutes talking about my

22 snickering is just unbelievable to me, but

23 it is out of disbelief that I snicker.

24 When I look out there, and I know

25 the cameras at home do not catch everything
.

27


1 that's goes on, I see a lot that goes on,

2 and I will snicker and I will disbelieve

3 this is what this forum comes to sometimes.

4 That is not what we're here for. We

5 are not here for the going on and the

6 asking, you know, questions and the

7 high-fiving each other in the back room like

8 you scored at some game.

9 It is hard for me to sit here and

10 not snicker sometimes. Now, does it mean

11 every one of you? Absolutely not. I mean,

12 come on. It is not like that.

13 But I'm also not going to sit here

14 and act like it doesn't happen. I mean, it

15 is -- sometimes it is beyond me that we can

16 sit here. It is like a Jerry springer

17 episode. I watch it and I think to myself,

18 He would walk out.

19 It is -- I know the cameras at home

20 don't see it, and I know that for some

21 reason I'm supposed to not react, but I will

22 react when I disbelieve what is going on,

23 and I will react when I don't believe that

24 the forum and the intent of that forum is

25 being used in the way that it should be.
.

28


1 Whether you like it or not, I'm

2 going to start saying it, and I'm going to

3 keep saying it.

4 I, now, I know I'm going to get a

5 lot of flat tires now and all that crazy

6 stuff, which is fun, but this is what

7 happens in this forum.

8 You come up here, you represent

9 yourself, and instead of saying we are for

10 the people, there's so many people in this

11 city, a lot them don't agree with you.

12 A lot of times I don't agree with

13 you. In fact, your agendas are not always

14 in best interests of the people that I hear

15 from.

16 Now, I'm not looking at you, so

17 stop. I can see the -- your agendas are not

18 always for everyone in this city.

19 You're saying to me, You should be

20 representing me. Well, you are not all that

21 there is. We have tons of people in this

22 city. I'm not going to sit here and say I'm

23 going to cater to one group or another.

24 You know, it's funny how special

25 interest groups get mad if you're not
.

29


1 catering to them. The regular people and

2 the taxpayers who are sitting home deserve

3 just as much attention as the people who

4 give their lives to come here every week.

5 Do I believe that if you seriously

6 and honestly set out to do what you intend

7 to do, we would have no problems in this

8 city.

9 You know, I hear about free swim,

10 free swim is always -- now it's going to

11 come up again, the free swim issue, do you

12 know if you took the money that were spent

13 on your T-shirts and put them towards the

14 kids in this city, we would have had a lot

15 of kids swimming for free. That would have

16 been a good idea, instead of having your --

17 MR. GERVASI: She is out of order.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: All right. Please,

19 please, Dave, please.

20 MR. GERVASI: I'm sorry.

21 MR. COURTRIGHT: Please, Dave, Dave,

22 please.

23 MR. COURTRIGHT: Please. Can we

24 just --

25 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Now you're
.

30


1 getting upset. On the agenda they write

2 terrible things, people write insulting

3 names instead of -- now, it's not all of

4 you.

5 Now, am I saying every one of you?

6 I didn't. But you write insulting names and

7 you think that we should sit here and act

8 like it doesn't happen, and then you don't

9 want me to laugh. You don't want me to

10 laugh.

11 MR. COURTRIGHT: All right. All

12 right. Could we wrap it up, because this

13 isn't getting us anywhere?

14 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: But I'm not

15 going to stop saying what I need to say,

16 just like you don't stop saying what you

17 need to say.

18 You come up here and say freedom o

19 speech. Freedom of speech works in my

20 direction, also. So, if you want freedom of

21 speech and you want to be able to say what

22 you want to say, you're going to have to

23 listen to me say what I'm going to need to

24 say, also.

25 MR. PILCHESKY: Your three minutes
.

31


1 are up.

2 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mr. Pilchesky,

3 please don't yell from the audience, please.

4 Is that it?

5 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Yeah, that is

6 all. Thank you.

7 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mr. McGoff.

8 MR. MCGOFF: Thanks. As a teacher

9 of history for 36 years, I'm not sure that

10 you wanted to reference FDR at that point,

11 Mrs. Evans. He was the first -- he was the

12 first president to engage in deficit

13 spending and the first unbalanced budget,

14 and also took us off the gold standard to

15 create massive inflation for his alphabet

16 programs, so I'm not sure that that was the

17 best reference point, but --

18 MS. EVANS: Well, it was actually

19 Mr. Doherty that referenced him. He was

20 using quotes from FDR to justify moving

21 ahead in the same direction --

22 MR. MCGOFF: That would then be

23 appropriate.

24 MS. EVANS: -- and for taking care

25 of the poor, so actually I was just -- I
.

32


1 think what you've pointed out is that they

2 might have some similarities in that way. I

3 was pointing out their contrasts.

4 MR. MCGOFF: Just for some levity.

5 Just one comment on the -- that people have

6 made about lack of agenda, agenda items. I

7 think part of that is our responsibility, as

8 well, and we should take part of the blame

9 for a lack of agenda.

10 I think that what we need to do as a

11 Council to start to think about things for

12 the future and not be looking backward at

13 things that have taken place.

14 I know I suggested in our brief

15 caucus that we meet to discuss revenue

16 generation for the future, and I think we

17 should also take a look at some of the

18 things that we have all talked about in the

19 past that we need to do as a Council to move

20 the city forward.

21 So, I think in the future, some of

22 the agenda items should be generated from us

23 and not rely completely upon the mayor and

24 the administration to present them to us,

25 and I think that then we take culpability
.

33


1 for, you know, the agenda, we take, you

2 know, our responsibility for the agenda and

3 our responsibility as a Council members as

4 legislators. And that's all. Thank you.

5 MS. EVANS: Mr. Courtright, can I

6 just respond? I'm sorry to interrupt you.

7 I know I always do.

8 MR. COURTRIGHT: Go right ahead.

9 MS. EVANS: But you're a gentleman

10 about it.

11 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you.

12 MS. EVANS: I just wanted to comment

13 on that. Council certainly has the ability,

14 as the legislative body, to develop

15 legislation, and for example subpoenas, the

16 budget that I developed, but I can tell many

17 of you, and I would assume there are some of

18 you who would even remember, that on

19 occasion when Council has developed its own

20 legislation, it was at odds with Mr.

21 Doherty, who claimed Council had no right to

22 write its own resolution -- it's own

23 legislation, and because Council proceeded

24 with that legislation, it was rapidly vetoed

25 by the mayor.
.

34


1 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. First

2 let me apologize. I haven't gotten back to

3 anybody this week on E-mails, letters, phone

4 calls. I was out of town all week. I just

5 got back today.

6 I got to speak on what just happened

7 here. This is the third year, this is going

8 into my fourth year on Council, and the

9 third year on this Council has been a hectic

10 one. I said that before.

11 I wasn't happy on how this Council

12 performed, and I wasn't happy on what came

13 to the podium. I think we're out of

14 control.

15 But I think people expect us, and we

16 are expected, us up here, to rise to a

17 higher level.

18 I understand people get frustrated

19 at the podium and maybe say things that they

20 shouldn't say, and we need to be pretty

21 thick skinned. I guess you know that coming

22 into this job.

23 And I think a perfect example of

24 being frustrated is -- I don't agree with

25 you calling the audience the Jerry Springer,
.

35


1 I'm going to have to tell you, I think that

2 was wrong, but I think you said that out of

3 frustration.

4 So, I would ask this, we don't have

5 to agree, we're not always going to agree,

6 but I think we need to treat each other with

7 a little bit more respect.

8 I understand residents need

9 questions answered, and I have always --

10 I'll just speak for myself, I have always

11 tried to answer every question I possibly

12 could. Sometimes I can't get the answer.

13 So, if I can't get it, I can't get it to

14 you.

15 But this back and forth here, I

16 don't go for you. You know, I don't think

17 we need to be yelling at you people out

18 there, and I certainly don't think you need

19 to be yelling at us.

20 I hope we can try to, on both sides

21 here, conduct ourselves a little bit better

22 in the future.

23 It's a little embarrassing sitting

24 up here when this happens. It makes me

25 wonder, you know, do I want to continue to
.

36


1 sit up here sometimes, but I do, and I hope

2 we can move on. I hope we can move on.

3 And I guess it's the onus somewhat

4 is on us. We're supposed to try to rise to

5 a little bit of a higher level, and that's

6 difficult.

7 I've been fortunate. You haven't

8 come after me too, too much, I'm sure my

9 time is coming, but I've been fortunate.

10 I am going to leave it at that. You

11 know, I don't think there's any right thing

12 to say on that, and I'll move on to some of

13 the things that I got today. And, again, I

14 apologize. I'll get back to everybody

15 before next weak on the questions that you

16 gave me.

17 I was over with Mrs. Phillips at

18 Kennedy School, and then I was up with my

19 sister, Mrs. Franco, up at John Marshal

20 School. I got a letter from John Marshal

21 School. It says, Mr. Courtright, thank you

22 for reading Joe Joe's Flying Sidekick to us.

23 Thanks, also, for discussing karate and City

24 Council. We can't wait to see -- I promised

25 them I'd bring them karate weapons, so they
.

37


1 want to see that. I got a little pin, and I

2 got an award here. Thank you very much.

3 And I got to see a girl I hadn't

4 seen in a lot of years, Barb Washo. I don't

5 think I would have recognized her, it's been

6 so many years.

7 And all the children signed this

8 thing, I can't read off all your names,

9 sorry. Some were pretty creative how they

10 signed it. Even as creative as the people

11 that sign our sign-in sheet here.

12 Kay, I was asked -- I'll try to get

13 this to Jeff Mackey myself, you don't need

14 to send him a letter. We've got 731 and 737

15 Alder Street and 510 Grimes Court in the

16 South Side, abandoned cars. So, I'll give

17 those to Mr. Mackey myself, Lieutenant

18 Mackey. Sir, please, sir, I -- we can hear

19 you up here, if you can hold it down.

20 Mrs. Gatelli, there was a letter

21 sent to Mrs. Gatelli, and she's not here, so

22 I'll read it. It's residents of Lafayette

23 Street and St. Frances Cabrini Avenue. It's

24 in reference to a dangerous situation for

25 students and parents walking down the 300
.

38


1 block of Cabrini venue to board a school

2 bus.

3 And it's saying, Today is March 6,

4 2007, 20 days after the snowstorm. A few

5 sidewalks in the 300 blocks have not been

6 touched, and addresses are given here, and

7 I'll turn this over to you, Kay, and you can

8 turn them over to inspection.

9 Also, a person who resides -- they

10 claim there's a person living in a garage

11 that shouldn't be living in there. I think

12 I sent that one down already.

13 We feel we are being placed in a

14 great risk of injury or worse because of the

15 adverse conditions that presently exist.

16 It has become necessary for us to

17 walk in the middle of the slippery heavily

18 roadway/hill to reach the school bus at the

19 bottom of the hill. Many calls have been

20 placed to various responsible departments

21 with negative response. Hopefully you might

22 help in removing this dangerous situation.

23 I don't know, do you have a copy of this,

24 Kay?

25 MS. GARVEY: Yes.
.

39


1 MR. COURTRIGHT: Could you forward

2 that, please? Again, I wasn't here this

3 week, Kay, and I didn't get a chance to look

4 at my mail. Did we send a letter out about

5 Mr. McGurl, Bernie McGurl, and the river

6 walk?

7 MS. GARVEY: Yes.

8 MR. COURTRIGHT: Did we get a

9 response yet?

10 MS. GARVEY: No, we haven't.

11 MR. COURTRIGHT: Okay. Mrs. Evans

12 spoke about Mr. -- it's Mr. Curry, is it

13 not, Mrs. Evans, the automobile dealership?

14 MS. EVANS: Yes.

15 MR. COURTRIGHT: All right. Mr.

16 Curry, you left me such a lengthy -- I was

17 out of town, he left a message on my machine

18 that it went to the end, to the end of the

19 tape and then the tape snapped, so I

20 couldn't get the whole story in there, so if

21 you want to call me again.

22 MS. EVANS: I can update you on

23 that.

24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mrs. Evans will

25 update me on that. I'm only laughing
.

40


1 because I got there and the tape was all

2 over.

3 Last week Mr. DiBileo came here and

4 brought up about the medical school, I

5 believe it was last week, and he asked that

6 we make a motion to send out a letter to our

7 state officials and our county officials,

8 and I believe Mr. Karam, showing our support

9 for a medical school in the Scranton area.

10 So, I'd like to make a motion that

11 we send a letter to the county

12 commissioners, to our state representatives,

13 Mr. Shimkus, I forgot -- I was going to call

14 him Frank Andrews -- Mr. Shimkus and Ken

15 Smith, and to Senator Mellow, and to the

16 governor's office and to Mr. Karam in our

17 support of a medical school in the downtown

18 area.

19 MR. MCGOFF: Second.

20 MR. COURTRIGHT: On the question?

21 All those in favor.

22 MS. EVANS: Aye.

23 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Aye.

24 MR. MCGOFF: Aye.

25 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye. Opposed? The
.

41


1 ayes have it and so ordered. And I believe

2 that's it.

3 MS. EVANS: Oh, Mr. Courtright, I'm

4 sorry again. If I may, I just read

5 something that we got this evening that I

6 think is important to announce to the

7 finance chair.

8 A letter was sent to the law

9 department so they would prepare the

10 necessary legislation for Council's annual

11 independent audit.

12 The company involved, Robert Rossi

13 and Company, just wanted to make sure that

14 Council is aware they will be starting late,

15 and so the audit, which is supposed to be by

16 virtue of The Home Rule Charter prepared for

17 May 2007, is going to be postponed until at

18 least July. They're hoping for July as a

19 presentation date, however, I don't think

20 any one of us would be too surprised, in

21 that, we have not received them in the last

22 three years until September and October

23 regardless.

24 But with this late start, I'm just

25 hoping that, you know, it's not going to
.

42


1 bump into budget time.

2 And honestly it's through no fault

3 of the auditor, it is simply the difficulty

4 that they experience oftentimes in obtaining

5 the information.

6 MR. COURTRIGHT: And I'd just like

7 to add to that. You know, Council held it

8 up because of the dollar amount that was

9 given to us for other companies, and this

10 company saved us -- it was approximately

11 $100,000. So, it was a good thing that

12 Council got done.

13 So, as you said, it's been late

14 before, so we'll live with that.

15 MS. EVANS: I think we'll adjust.

16 MR. COURTRIGHT: But we're in the

17 plus for $100,000. And sixth order, Kay.

18 MS. GARVEY: Fifth order, no

19 business at this time. Sixth order, no

20 business at this time. Seventh order. 7-A,

21 FOR CONSIDERATION BY THE COMMITTEE ON RULES

22 - FOR ADOPTION - RESOLUTION NO. 130, 2007 -

23 APPOINTING ROBERT SHUMAKER, 702 STAFFORD

24 AVE., SCRANTON, PENNSYLVANIA, 18505, AS A

25 MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS FOR
.

43


1 THE CITY OF SCRANTON. MR. SHUMAKER WILL

2 FILL THE UNEXPIRED TERM OF MARY DUNLEAVY,

3 WHOSE TERM EXPIRES ON JULY 1, 2007.

4 MR. COURTRIGHT: As temporary chair

5 for the committee on rules, I recommend

6 final passage of Item 7-A.

7 MR. MCGOFF: Second.

8 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Roll

9 call.

10 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

11 MS. EVANS: Yes.

12 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.

13 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Yes.

14 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McGoff.

15 MR. MCGOFF: Yes.

16 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.

17 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yes.

18 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

19 MR. COURTRIGHT: I hereby declare

20 Item 7-A legally and lawfully adopted.

21 That's it. Eighth order.

22 MS. GARVEY: Eighth order.

23 MR. COURTRIGHT: And Fay Franus,

24 first speaker.

25 MS. FRANUS: Fay Franus. Mr.
.

44


1 Courtright, I beg to differ with you when

2 you said earlier that people get to the

3 podium and they don't say what they mean.

4 Yes, they do.

5 MR. COURTRIGHT: I didn't mean it --

6 I didn't mean they didn't say what they

7 mean, I said sometimes they speak out of

8 frustration because they're mad because they

9 didn't get the answers they were hoping for.

10 MS. FRANUS: They're mad because

11 they got a tax increase from Mr. McGoff,

12 Mrs. Fanucci and Mrs. Gatelli.

13 They're mad. They're plenty mad,

14 especially when you didn't have to do that,

15 and they had a budget that Mrs. Evans had

16 that wouldn't have raised taxes at all, and

17 yet these people did it, Mrs. Gatelli, Mrs.

18 Fanucci and Mr. McGoff.

19 And Mr. McGoff, October 28, you said

20 that you were not -- you did not have any

21 more political aspirations, and Mrs. Gatelli

22 also said that that's why she appointed you

23 as Council, and that's why she didn't want

24 to vote for Gary DiBileo because he might

25 run.
.

45


1 Now, how do you sit there and run

2 for Council now when you said you were not

3 going to run for Council that's how you sort

4 of got appointed. Liar, liar, pants on

5 fire.

6 MR. MCGOFF: Excuse me. Don't call

7 me names.

8 MS. FRANUS: Well, this is America.

9 You're also forgetting freedom of speech.

10 MR. MCGOFF: That's out of order.

11 Don't call -- name calling is not

12 appropriate.

13 MS. FRANUS: It's how I feel. If it

14 fits, it fits. If you can't take the heat

15 up there, you're elected officials, then

16 maybe you shouldn't be there.

17 And Mrs. Fanucci, as far as the

18 people with the T-shirts, it's really none

19 of your business how people spend their

20 money.

21 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Well, it's just

22 a suggestion.

23 MS. FRANUS: Well, it's out of line.

24 I mean, people could spend their money any

25 way they want. It has nothing to do with
.

46


1 pool fees. There shouldn't be pool fees for

2 kids.

3 And you mentioned that you speak for

4 the people in the city, not just a few here.

5 I'm sure all the people in the City of

6 Scranton aren't home saying thank you, Mrs.

7 Fanucci, for raising my taxes, some of them

8 are saying now, I can't live here anymore.

9 I'm sure they're sitting home saying, Thank

10 you for raising my taxes, Mrs. Fanucci, and

11 I bet they're clapping. I don't think so.

12 So, I'd like to see these people

13 that you say you're doing things for, other

14 than just a few here. There aren't any.

15 Another thing, how come this has to

16 be on the agenda for a subpoena, when Mr.

17 McGoff was put in here as a motion? That

18 was a pretty serious thing, but nothing had

19 to go on the agenda for him to be a Council

20 member, but it just got through on a motion,

21 so why can't the subpoena go on a motion?

22 MS. EVANS: I can respond to that,

23 Mrs. Franus. We -- actually I made the

24 motion for the subpoenas, and the motion was

25 unanimously passed. The last time subpoenas
.

47


1 were issued, that indeed was the way in

2 which the procedure played out, however, at

3 the advice of Council solicitor, I decided

4 to place a resolution for subpoenas of the

5 first five government entities on the

6 agenda, and the reason being that Mr. Minora

7 felt should the administration oppose these

8 subpoenas, in fact, oppose them such that

9 they would take City Council to court, it

10 would strengthen the standing of City

11 Council, at least where the judge would be

12 concerned, that Council would be able to

13 state we did this, not only by motion, but

14 we did this by resolution.

15 In other words, the fear of our

16 attorney is that a judge could ask had

17 Council moved this through resolution, and

18 were we to answer no, we could very possibly

19 be tossed out of that courtroom on that

20 ground alone.

21 And so, I'm trying -- I want this

22 information for all of you very much, but I

23 do believe we have to dot the I's, cross the

24 T's and make sure that there's no judge who

25 is going to be able to say procedurally we
.

48


1 are in error.

2 MS. FRANUS: Thank you for that

3 explanation.

4 MR. MINORA: That's way past three

5 minutes.

6 MS. EVANS: Pardon?

7 MR. MINORA: That's way past three

8 minutes.

9 MS. EVANS: That's my fault.

10 MR. COURTRIGHT: Just wrap it up,

11 could you?

12 MS. FRANUS: Just one more thing,

13 when Mrs. Gatelli allows some people to

14 speak longer than three minutes and others

15 not, that's not really right. That's

16 discrimination. I mean, I know she says

17 it's at her discretion, but she can't -- she

18 does not supercede Thomas Jefferson.

19 If you're going to do it for one,

20 you do it for all or you do it for none.

21 You cannot say yes to one and no to another,

22 not matter what. Period. That's the way it

23 is. It's not her law, it's The

24 Constitution. She can't change that.

25 So, all I'm saying anymore is either
.

49


1 nobody speaks over three minutes or

2 everybody can. Period. Thank you.

3 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. Bill

4 Jackowitz.

5 MR. JACKOWITZ: Bill Jackowitz,

6 retired United States Air Force. Since I

7 was the originator of The Legion of Doom

8 T-shirts, I now have $300 million in my bank

9 account, according to Ms. Fanucci, because

10 we can balance the budget off the sale of

11 The Legion of Doom T-shirts.

12 I've spoken from this podium for one

13 and a half years and written several letters

14 to the editor asking for six adults to work

15 together and make Scranton, Pennsylvania a

16 better place to live and work and play.

17 I have asked City Council members to

18 work together and forget politics. I have

19 failed, and I was wrong.

20 We have five adults and one

21 adolescent. Looking at the candidates for

22 City Council and school board, politics at

23 play and work. Again, a wise man seeks much

24 counsel, a foolish man listens to all of it.

25 Do not believe everything that you are told,
.

50


1 specially from most politicians.

2 Ms. Fanucci, your little statement

3 earlier today, I feel, is your right.

4 You're an American citizen, you have First

5 Amendment rights, just like everybody else

6 does, just like you had the right to leave a

7 meeting and confront Les Spindler out in the

8 hallway.

9 I think the citizens who watch this

10 show are not hearing and need to know that,

11 also. You had the right last summer to get

12 up during the summer meetings and leave this

13 Council chambers to go to your state job.

14 You were getting paid from the state, and

15 you were getting paid from the city. You

16 have that right, because you are an American

17 citizen.

18 Just like I have the right to come

19 up here and speak every Thursday. I have

20 never been on the Jerry Springer Show, I

21 never plan to be on The Jerry Springer Show.

22 Mrs. Fanucci, I hope you never

23 resign. I do not want you to resign,

24 because you are a very amusing person. So,

25 please stay on City Council. Don't resign.
.

51


1 Raise the taxes again this year, next year,

2 just follow whatever Mayor Doherty tells you

3 to do, okay?

4 Because remember, you were the one

5 who forgot that you got a campaign

6 contribution, you were the one who voted for

7 Gary DiBileo and then changed your mind, the

8 almighty oops vote. I can go on, but I'm

9 not going to, because I see no purpose. You

10 started this, hopefully it ends right now.

11 Thank you.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. Joe

13 Talamini.

14 MR. TALAMINI: Joe Talamini. With

15 regards to the subpoenas, I believe that you

16 people voted by motion to have the subpoenas

17 issues. You followed up again with a

18 resolution, Mrs. Evans, if I'm not wrong,

19 but during that time you did ask for all

20 pertinent financial information; did you

21 not?

22 MS. EVANS: In my motion, yes, I

23 did.

24 MR. TALAMINI: And that was

25 approved; was it not?
.

52


1 MS. EVANS: Unanimously.

2 MR. TALAMINI: All right. Mrs.

3 Gatelli advised me last week that the

4 Council had to take into consideration what

5 they were going to ask for. That was not

6 part of the motion. Am I right or wrong?

7 Asked for all financial records, and Mrs.

8 Gatelli saw last week to tell me that the

9 Council had to sit back and decide what kind

10 of information they wanted.

11 MS. EVANS: Oh, so in other words,

12 the subpoenas were not ready last week.

13 MR. TALAMINI: The subpoenas were

14 not ready last week --

15 MS. EVANS: Well, yes, I would agree

16 with that, because we just received them

17 tonight.

18 MR. TALAMINI: Okay. But why did

19 the Council have to sit back after making a

20 motion and passing it, why did they have to

21 sit back and decide what they wanted after

22 the motion was passed to seek all financial

23 records from these agencies?

24 MS. EVANS: Well, I believe the goal

25 is to -- remains to receive all financial
.

53


1 information, but in order to make it more

2 manageable and more effective, it will come

3 in waves.

4 The first wave, I believe, should

5 include one authority and three city

6 departments. And once that information has

7 been obtained and reviewed, then the next

8 round of subpoenas will be issued.

9 MR. TALAMINI: Thank you, Mrs.

10 Evans.

11 MS. EVANS: You're welcome.

12 MR. TALAMINI: The other item I want

13 to bring up is the smoking ordinance. Now,

14 The Scranton Housing Authority saw it fit

15 this week to go by your ordinance and claim

16 that we can no longer smoke in Scranton

17 Housing Authority buildings, with the

18 exception of our apartments, which means

19 people like myself and several others who

20 have been using our day room can no longer

21 use it because we're not allowed to smoke

22 there, this at the behest of one or two

23 individuals who happen to speak to Mr.

24 Pilakachi and a few others who think they

25 run the buildings.
.

54


1 But the point of it is, and I would

2 address this to Mr. Minora, the Erie County

3 judge, I believe he found that the smoking

4 ordinance in Erie County was in violation of

5 Pennsylvania Clear Indoor Air Act of 1988,

6 Section 1235.1, which says, No law may

7 surpass the state law.

8 In other words, according to the

9 state law, only first class cities, such as

10 Pittsburgh and Philadelphia can enact laws

11 opposing the state. Scranton is a second

12 class city.

13 Now, if a judge has ruled on this, I

14 would ask Council to instruct the solicitor

15 to further investigate this and come back

16 with an answer in a very short time as to

17 why this ordinance is not deemed illegal

18 precluding any court action which is pending

19 right now. And I can assure you that court

20 action is pending.

21 MR. MINORA: That's three minutes.

22 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.

23 Talamini.

24 MR. TALAMINI: That may be three

25 minutes, Mr. Minora, but you should be
.

55


1 paying attention to what's going on. You're

2 supposed to be a solicitor.

3 MR. MINORA: Don't attack my legal

4 credentials, because you don't know what

5 you're talking about legally.

6 MR. TALAMINI: I'm not attacking

7 your legal credentials, I'm attacking you.

8 MR. COURTRIGHT: Please, Mr.

9 Talamini, please. Andy Sbaraglia.

10 MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia,

11 citizen of Scranton. Fellow Scrantonians,

12 I'm going to ask again that you consider

13 passing legislation for free swim. I don't

14 care who vetoes it or so forth and so on,

15 but it has to get on the record who is

16 keeping the kids from Scranton from swimming

17 for free.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mr. Sbaraglia, I

19 believe last year we did pass for the

20 schools or the pools, with the exception of

21 Nay Aug Park, because we have no control

22 over Nay Aug Park.

23 MR. SBARAGLIA: I realize that, but

24 you also know it was vetoed by the mayor and

25 vetoed by two members of Council, so it
.

56


1 wasn't overridden, so it stood in effect

2 they couldn't swim. I'm asking you to do it

3 again. It's not very hard to do it.

4 MR. COURTRIGHT: I agree with you.

5 I'm in favor of free swimming.

6 MR. SBARAGLIA: It's awful important

7 to the children. The demographics of the

8 city is changing dramatically. We have a

9 lot more people that are disadvantaged in

10 the city today than we had maybe 20 years

11 ago.

12 Things are getting desperate in this

13 city. They cannot afford to have kids swim,

14 or would you rather graffiti? Would you

15 rather Blues or whoever these gangs are to

16 flourish because you don't think the city --

17 the kids deserve some kind of a summer

18 program?

19 I asked you before to contact the

20 school district and The University and

21 actually have a summer playground. You can

22 do that very easily.

23 MR. COURTRIGHT: I believe Mrs.

24 Evans did do something with the school

25 direct, didn't you?
.

57


1 MS. EVANS: Yes. That was probably

2 two to three years ago at Mr. Morgan's

3 request, but the school district, though

4 they found it to be a good idea, they

5 informed us that they offer many, many

6 programs year-around, evenings, weekends,

7 many summer programs, and they felt they

8 were not financially capable at that point

9 of assuming any additional responsibility.

10 MR. SBARAGLIA: The school board

11 just borrowed $60 million. I think they got

12 money available.

13 But let's put it this way back

14 again. I told you this three years ago,

15 when I was a little kid, I do not want to go

16 to school to play. I want to play in the

17 parks and the pools, and you should realize

18 that, too. You were all kids, too. Would

19 you like to go to summer school because

20 that's their summer program?

21 You don't want a program like that.

22 You want a program where you can swim, use

23 teeter totters, and even play a little ball,

24 throw the ball around and so forth and so

25 on. This is what you want. This is what
.

58


1 Scranton had.

2 What you're going to do is actually

3 when these kids grow up, you're not going to

4 get people like Karam again and Nardelli and

5 so forth and so on that's going to give a

6 darn about Scranton. All they're going to

7 have is bad memories of this city.

8 Them people have good memories of

9 this city, because they grew up in a city

10 that had these things.

11 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you, Andy.

13 MS. EVANS: Mr. Sbaraglia, just to

14 clarify, when I spoke with the school

15 directors at the time, they weren't

16 referencing summer school as a summer

17 activity, but rather recreational programs

18 that were available during the summer.

19 But beyond that, I do agree with

20 you, and I think this should be done -- if

21 it can't be done this evening, the motion

22 should be made at next week's meeting,

23 because I do recall last summer, and the

24 motion being made very early on, and for

25 whatever reason, Council dragged its feet
.

59


1 all summer until such time as the swimming

2 season was just about over, so the veto was

3 almost irrelevant. And I don't want to see

4 that happen again. It's got to happen now.

5 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. Mike

6 Dudek.

7 MR. DUDEK: My name is Mike Dudek,

8 608 Depot Street, Scranton, PA. I live here

9 in The Plot. And I'm here today to make a

10 very open-handed offer to City Council. The

11 city wants to build a medical center. And

12 I'm sitting here already listening to you

13 talking about sending a letter talking about

14 your supporting the construction of a

15 medical center in the Downtown Scranton and

16 so forth.

17 That's fine, that's wonderful, but

18 you have to understand, downtown Scranton

19 has already been defined by the Scranton

20 Redevelopment Authority as Lackawanna

21 Avenue, Mifflin, Olive and Jefferson

22 Streets. That area is circumscribed.

23 Now, does anybody up there know when

24 that happened? 1955. You have a lot of

25 homework to do. I want to see the City of
.

60


1 Scranton do this right.

2 Now, as I'm looking at the way the

3 administration is dealing with Buona Pizza,

4 the city administration is doing it the way

5 it has always done urban redevelopment in

6 this city in a very heavy-handed, very

7 mean-spirited fashion. That's not the way

8 to do it. I wrote the book on urban

9 redevelopment in the City of Scranton.

10 Now, I can't tell if Attorney Robert

11 Gownley is still with us or not, I don't

12 know if he's alive or deceased or whatever.

13 He might have been the only person who knows

14 more about this topic than I do.

15 The City of Scranton tried to take

16 his homestead for $10,000. His house was

17 one of these big 14 room typical big

18 Scranton houses that would probably sell for

19 $300,000 today.

20 He took the city over the coals,

21 because the city thought that they were just

22 going to railroad him like everybody else.

23 I can give you a long education about this

24 topic.

25 But what I'd like you to do is have
.

61


1 the city administration work professionally,

2 have realtors on both sides. I would like

3 to see this building built taking as few

4 properties as possible, so that instead of

5 the city doing the negotiating, have

6 realtors get involved, have them meet with

7 whatever owners are going to have to give up

8 their properties and meet for fair prices.

9 Take the properties that are needed and

10 build this medical center.

11 This medical center could be a boom

12 for this city. If you take a look at

13 Baltimore, Johns Hopkins University Medical

14 Center, we would have something comparable.

15 University of Scranton with a

16 medical center, even though they're not

17 linked, the financial benefit to Scranton

18 would be similar to what Johns Hopkins does

19 for Baltimore.

20 MR. MINORA: That's three minutes,

21 Mr. Dudek.

22 MR. DUDEK: Thank you.

23 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. Robert

24 Maciejeski.

25 Mr. MACIEJESKI: Robert Maciejeski,
.

62


1 resident. This past weekend I read the

2 associated press' report, as well as The

3 Scranton Times' report on Judge John Bosa's

4 ruling regarding the Erie County smoking

5 ban.

6 Now, he ruled the ban to be

7 Unconstitutional because it enacted a more

8 rigorous smoking regulation than The Clean

9 Indoor Act, the smoking regulation of the

10 state.

11 I'm not a lawyer, but I read the

12 act, and judging by the language, it

13 insinuates that Scranton does not have the

14 authority to enact a smoking ordinance that

15 supercedes this act, only a first class city

16 may.

17 And the only two in the city, I

18 believe, are Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. I

19 mean, this isn't news. I believe Mrs. Evans

20 said this right when the -- around the

21 inception of the ban.

22 Now, if this Clean Indoor Act

23 applies to the city, then the Erie County

24 ruling should be used as sort of a precedent

25 that could -- it would save the city money
.

63


1 if they just got rid of the ban until the --

2 if it's eminent that the state is going to

3 enact a smoking ban, then why not get rid of

4 it?

5 Because if it goes to court, which I

6 know there's litigation against the ban

7 already, if this goes to court, then it's

8 just going to cost the city money, and it's

9 going to -- they're going to lose, if the

10 judge uses this case in Erie County as a

11 precedent, and if the ban is recognized as

12 illegal.

13 All it's does so far is hurt

14 business. I don't see the relation to

15 public health. It seems like the ban was

16 just thought of to take light off the city

17 finance.

18 Now, the businesses affected, which

19 there's a good number, I've talked to a

20 couple business owners in particular who

21 have lost a great deal of business.

22 Now, if they receive some sort of

23 tax breaks or something. I mean, or no

24 one's healthy or safer from this.

25 And all the people who say, Well,
.

64


1 follow the law, the city law that you can't

2 smoke, don't smoke 20 feet away or you can't

3 smoke inside, well, the city didn't follow

4 the state law when they enacted this ban, so

5 what makes the citizens susceptible to this

6 law?

7 Scranton is an independent state and

8 it has to follow the state law, whether the

9 leaders agree with it or not.

10 I mean, if they don't, then it's

11 always available to run for state

12 legislature and change the law if they feel

13 so strongly about it.

14 Now, Mr. Courtright, I read in The

15 Scranton Times that, I don't know if it was

16 a misquote, but that not many business

17 owners have come forward with any ideas.

18 But I thought talked to one in

19 particular, and he didn't know about it, but

20 I think he's sending a letter, but even if

21 you were to go out to someplace like Chick's

22 or My Mother's Table and you saw -- on the

23 weekend or morning and you compared the

24 business to what it was --

25 MR. MINORA: Three minutes.
.

65


1 MR. MACIEJESKI: -- a year ago, you

2 would see there's a great difference.

3 Thanks.

4 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. Charlie

5 Newcomb, Sr.

6 MR. NEWCOMB, SR.: Good evening,

7 Council. Just a few questions and a few

8 statements.

9 We read in the paper on Sunday about

10 what Dunmore was doing with people that were

11 involved in car accidents where they were

12 getting billed for or their insurance was

13 getting billed for the use of the police and

14 the firemen, non-residents, and I believe it

15 all came from, like, a PEL situation that

16 told them, you know, you're in dire straits,

17 you have to make some money.

18 Well, one thing I give the Council

19 people up in Dunmore credit for is they made

20 a very hard decision, but they did what had

21 to be right.

22 Mr. Bolus came here many times

23 talked about an impact fee, that's exactly

24 what that is.

25 If the City of Scranton enacted such
.

66


1 a thing, we have 25,000 people to come

2 through here every day, non-residents, the

3 people that use the services are the ones

4 that should have to pay for this, which

5 means if they're involved in an accident,

6 you know, they get the firemen and the

7 police, they have to pay for it.

8 But my question is to be fair on the

9 other end, it says that we're supplying

10 Dunmore with -- our firefighters are helping

11 fight their fires. Do we get reimbursed

12 from Dunmore? Does anybody know that?

13 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't think so.

14 I think we just have a reciprocal agreement,

15 they help us, we help them.

16 MR. NEWCOMB, SR.: Well, I don't

17 think they help us, because they only have

18 one fire truck, so I don't think that they

19 help up.

20 But the question of it is, and God

21 forbid, but what happens if one of our

22 firemen are up in Dunmore fighting a fire at

23 a house and they get injured? Do we pay

24 their Comp or is Dunmore responsible for the

25 injury?
.

67


1 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm getting it

2 would be our responsibility, but I'll find

3 it out for you.

4 MR. NEWCOMB, SR.: I think we should

5 look into it. I mean, if they're going to

6 charge fees like that, we should -- they

7 should pay for our fire and police if they

8 need them, instead of the citizens of the

9 city.

10 And Mr., if I could ask Mr. Minora a

11 question, do you feel very confident in your

12 decision about the smoking ban? Do you feel

13 that it's going to sta