1
1 SCRANTON CITY COUNCIL MEETING
2
3 (SNOW REMOVAL CAUCUS)
4
5
6 Held:
7 Thursday, February 22, 2007
8
9
10 Time:
11 6:30 p.m.
12
13
14 Location:
15 Council Chambers
16 Scranton City Hall
17 340 North Washington Avenue
18 Scranton, Pennsylvania
19
20
21
22
23
24 Lisa M. Graff, RMR
25 Court Reporter
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2
1 CITY OF SCRANTON COUNCIL:
2
3 MS. JUDY GATELLI, COUNCIL PRESIDENT
4
5 MR. WILLIAM COURTRIGHT, VICE-PRESIDENT
6
7 MS. JANET EVANS
8
9 MS. SHERRY NEALON FANUCCI
10
11 MR. ROBERT MCGOFF
12
13 MR. JOHN MINORA, ESQUIRE, SOLICITOR
14
15 MS. KAY GARVEY, CITY CLERK
16
17 MS. SUE MAGNOTTA, ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Please stand
2 for the Pledge Of Allegiance. Please remain
3 standing for a moment of reflection. Roll
4 call.
5 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mrs. Evans.
6 MS. EVANS: Here.
7 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mrs. Fanucci.
8 MS. FANUCCI: Here.
9 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mr. McGoff.
10 MR. MCGOFF: Here.
11 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mr. Courtright.
12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Here.
13 MS. MAGNOTTA: Mrs. Gatelli.
14 MS. GATELLI: Here. Would someone
15 make a motion to suspend the rules?
16 MR. MCGOFF: So moved.
17 MS. EVANS: Second.
18 MS. GATELLI: All in favor?
19 MS. EVANS: Aye.
20 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Aye.
21 MR. MCGOFF: Aye.
22 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
23 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The
24 ayes have it and so moved. We will be
25 suspending the rules this evening because we
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4
1 have some of the administration here. I did
2 speak to George Parker today and asked if he
3 would come to discuss some of the problems
4 that we had with the snowstorm, and he so
5 graciously agreed to be here with us.
6 And I spoke with Mayor Doherty at
7 about a quarter to five, and he told me that
8 Chief Elliott and Chief Davis would also be
9 here.
10 I also talked to Dave Shreiber this
11 afternoon and discussed with him some of the
12 fire department issues regarding the fire on
13 Acker Avenue, and he also stated to me that
14 he would be in attendance at tonight's
15 meeting.
16 So, we will have this caucus with
17 Council and Council members can ask
18 questions. Dave, you can sit up here, sur.
19 No, the public cannot ask questions during a
20 caucus. A caucus is just Council with the
21 cabinet members.
22 I would also like to ask Mr. McGoff,
23 being that that is his committee, public
24 works is his committee, if he would work
25 together with Mr. Parker in a plan that we
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5
1 can all live with to address some of the
2 problems that we're having, and we need as
3 much input as possible from Council members,
4 the public, anyone who has any ideas and
5 suggestions of better ways in which to
6 address a snowstorm of this magnitude.
7 As you all know, the state had a
8 problem with the highways being closed, and
9 I just caught the tail end of the news
10 tonight. They had hearings in Harrisburg
11 concerning some the reasons why they weren't
12 prepared for the storm.
13 I've been down to Wilkes-Barre,
14 Wilkes-Barre is in the same shape that we
15 are. I've been up to Jessup and Archbald,
16 and they're in the same condition we are,
17 too.
18 So, I think that there were some
19 probably some extenuating circumstances with
20 the ice that we had, however, I am not in
21 any way saying that the streets are
22 acceptable.
23 I have been in touch with Mr.
24 Parker, Mr. Elliott, I talked to Sam Vitras
25 as late at one o'clock in the morning almost
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6
1 every night during the storm telling him of
2 people that were calling my home.
3 They were very receptive. Everyone
4 complaint that I got was addressed. People
5 that didn't get their complaints addressed,
6 we can apologize, but Council is not
7 responsible. We're only a conduit to the
8 administration.
9 And some people didn't get their
10 areas covered that I did give, one is here
11 tonight, and I see her in the back, my dear
12 friend Miss Julie, and I did give that
13 address several times.
14 I think they don't realize it's a
15 street, and that's -- that's a problem, too,
16 you know, when they go somewhere and they
17 don't realize that that is actually a
18 street, that people need to get there for
19 their garages, et cetera.
20 I did go with the mayor and Mr.
21 Parker the night after the storm when the
22 Council meeting was cancelled and I took
23 them to places where I had received
24 complaints, and we visited each one of them,
25 and Mr. Parker had those addressed during
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7
1 the night.
2 The pack master was already in
3 Minooka when we got there working on certain
4 areas back there that weren't done.
5 So, I have to say that I did get
6 cooperation from the administration,
7 however, there's definitely a problem when
8 you have to drive down the street and all
9 you do you is back up. I've done more
10 backing up this week than I've done my whole
11 life.
12 And, you know, it's hard for people.
13 Some people can't back up, and you have to
14 when there's only one lane open.
15 So, yes, there was a problem, and
16 all the screaming and yelling and hollering
17 is not going to rectify it. We know there's
18 a problem. I think Mr. Parker agrees
19 there's a problem.
20 The mayor spoke with me this
21 afternoon and said, yes, there was a
22 problem, but get as much input as you can,
23 have everyone contribute, and we're going to
24 work on a plan to try to do it better the
25 next time.
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8
1 So, that's about all I have to say.
2 Mr. Parker, would you like to start, and,
3 you know, maybe say what some of the
4 problems you've seen during the storm or any
5 particular issues that you would like to
6 discuss? And thank you all for being here,
7 Mr. Shreiber, you also. Thank you.
8 MR. PARKER: I believe the foremost
9 problem with the storm was the storm itself
10 and the makeup of it.
11 The storm was in phases. The type
12 of precipitation was in layers. Initially
13 we had a granular-type of storm which would
14 have been really fine, would have been
15 really easy to move, but that was followed
16 by approximately five hours of sleet, and
17 then there was another snowfall on top of
18 that, which I believe the television station
19 said was failing at the rate of one and a
20 half inches per hour.
21 Once a storm continues for that many
22 hours, it becomes that much more difficult
23 to remove it, for a number of reasons.
24 Number one, you have traffic running over
25 material you're trying to remove; number
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9
1 two, the number of hours takes its toll on
2 the people driving the equipment, and number
3 three, you will eventually get some type of
4 breakdown on a vehicle, whether it's
5 something as minor as a windshield wiper or
6 something more serious as an axle in a
7 transmission.
8 The storm was difficult to combat.
9 The storm, in my estimation, was the most
10 difficult I ever had to deal with, which
11 concludes 28 years with the Department of
12 Transportation.
13 It was most the difficult one to
14 deal with since I've been with the City of
15 Scranton. When I first came into this
16 position we were under a snowfall condition
17 at that time, however, the composition of it
18 was easier to remove than this was or has
19 been and still is.
20 We dispatched people to combat the
21 storm at eight o'clock on the night of the
22 13th, and we have had people for at least
23 five days working around the clock. When I
24 say around the clock, I mean in shifts, of
25 course.
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10
1 We still have not finished cleaning
2 up areas, mainly courts. We still have
3 areas where we need to do what's called a
4 cut back to move the snow even further back
5 from the lanes, and we understand that we
6 still need to do more work.
7 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Does any
8 Council members --
9 MR. MCGOFF: Mr. Parker, could you
10 briefly delineate what the standing plan is
11 for snow removal, how it's approached, and
12 perhaps what adjustments you may have made
13 during the course of the storm to alter the
14 plan?
15 MR. PARKER: Okay. Initially when a
16 snowfall begins, depending on the rate that
17 it's falling, let's say a normal snowfall,
18 we immediately call out at least six trucks,
19 that being for each north, south, east and
20 west section of the city, one for East
21 Mountain and one for West Mountain.
22 As the storm begins or as the storm
23 continues rather, we bring out up to 15
24 trucks. That is the size of the fleet that
25 we have.
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1 We then continue as many hours as it
2 takes during the storm to remove material
3 from the roads. And depending on whether
4 it's a deep heavy snow, in other words, you
5 keep trying to remove, if it's a storm of
6 short duration and small depth, as they pass
7 by with the plows, they immediately apply
8 anti-skid and/or salt. The amount of time,
9 of course, that it takes depends on the
10 length of the storm.
11 MR. MCGOFF: Might I -- I'm sorry.
12 MR. PARKER: Go ahead.
13 MR. MCGOFF: Is there an order in
14 which streets are addressed or certain
15 routes are addressed during the course of
16 this?
17 MR. PARKER: Yes, there are. As you
18 are aware, some of the streets within the
19 City of Scranton are state highways, of
20 course, they are being cleaned by the
21 Department of Transportation.
22 And the only reason I bring THAT UP
23 IS, those are your primary routes through
24 the city.
25 The additional what may be deemed by
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12
1 people to be primary routes that are city
2 owned streets are the focus of our first
3 concern. The primary routes, such as roads
4 to hospitals or routes used by emergency
5 vehicles to the hospitals, routes for fire
6 equipment that are primary routes to a
7 section of the city.
8 We then look at routes for -- that
9 are used by school busses, et cetera, and
10 traffic to schools. And once you get
11 through them, then you are into all your
12 side streets, et cetera.
13 Once you are able to complete them,
14 you begin addressing courts and allies.
15 This is not to say we don't address any
16 courts and allies in a shorter period of
17 time, there is an emergency that we are
18 informed of, for example, by the police
19 department, the fire department, and/or
20 communication center, then we will probably
21 address that court, but we do not do it in
22 that order normally.
23 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you.
24 MR. COURTRIGHT: I have a couple
25 things, Mr. Parker. I had called Mr. Parker
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1 when the snowstorm first started, as Mr.
2 Elliott knows.
3 I know a lot of police officers, and
4 two called me that haven't called me once
5 since I've been on City Council and they
6 said they hadn't seen any plows out, could I
7 check, and I called Mr. Parker and I asked
8 him. He said he had 11 plows out and three,
9 I believe, private contractors.
10 So, I didn't call back. If I knew
11 that I could get you to plow certain
12 streets, I would have certainly called you
13 again. I'll do that the next storm.
14 MR. PARKER: I'm sorry. I didn't
15 hear you.
16 MR. COURTRIGHT: I said, I didn't
17 know -- Mrs. Gatelli got you to plow certain
18 streets, I didn't think you were taking
19 requests from us, or else I would have
20 absolutely gave you some requests. I got
21 hundreds of them.
22 But what I did was I am going to try
23 to stay on a positive note, because I know
24 we could do a lot of finger pointing.
25 I went to former city officials this
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14
1 past week, former DPW people this past week,
2 and these were the suggestions that were
3 given to me, and if you feel they're good,
4 I'd ask you to implement them, if not, maybe
5 you can explain to me at a later date why.
6 One of the main things they told me
7 was that we need to go back to the way we
8 used to do things.
9 I'm 49 years old, I've never seen
10 the roads this bad in all the years I've
11 lived in this city. And this is -- these
12 are former city officials and DPW employees.
13 They said we need to go back to
14 putting plows on garbage trucks. Who knows
15 better the streets of this city than the men
16 that are picking up the garbage every day?
17 And that would almost double the fleet,
18 they're telling me.
19 One that was a song sung by
20 everybody I spoke to said that in the event
21 of a storm that we know is coming, that
22 their recommendation was to go out with not
23 a mix of anti-skid and rock salt,
24 100 percent rock salt, put it down even
25 before the storm hits.
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1 If, in fact, the storm doesn't hit,
2 you look bad, but they said what they had
3 done in the past, they put it down, and if
4 we get 10, 15 inches, obviously it's not
5 going to melt the 10 or 15 away, but it
6 makes it much easier to plow afterwards.
7 For Mr. Elliott, Dave -- I'm sorry I call
8 Dave Dave, because I know him, so I call him
9 by his first name.
10 Chains on the police vehicles, I
11 know in this administration no more, and I
12 understand the reason why, damage possibly
13 to vehicles.
14 But, in my opinion, when we have a
15 situation like we did this last week, maybe
16 the first day or two the people of this city
17 are dependent on us, public officials, to
18 take care of them, because, you know, do for
19 them what they can't do for themselves.
20 So, I would ask if we have an event
21 like this that we consider putting chains on
22 at least some of the police cars so they can
23 get to where they need to get to.
24 I know we had a lot of them stuck,
25 and I'm trying to go as quickly as possible
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1 here.
2 Snow emergency routes, I didn't see
3 it, I don't know if it was you, Mr. Parker,
4 or the mayor or somebody said that we
5 haven't followed the snow emergency routes
6 since the sixties.
7 I spoke to Mayor McNulty, he said in
8 1986, he was still doing it. They had
9 signage. I remember the signage. So, I
10 agree, too, that maybe we should have the
11 emergency routes posted mainly for the
12 hospitals and whatnot, what roads are the
13 emergencies that are going to be getting
14 done first so cars can get off of those
15 roads.
16 And I think everybody agrees, I
17 think somebody said you also mentioned this,
18 the alternate street parking, odd/even
19 parking.
20 And it was asked to me, wouldn't
21 that be an inconvenience to the neighbors?
22 And I thought, well, better to be
23 inconvenient for one or two days than nine,
24 such as we are now.
25 One big problem, and I think this
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1 should be addressed very soon, I don't want
2 to really speak on the fire, because that
3 was a tragedy and I'm not going to talk
4 about that, but one thing I heard -- I was
5 there, I was at the fire, and as you all
6 know you could hear the Comm Center talking
7 over the loud speaker, and when the Comm
8 Center had to say, could you send -- I
9 believe they're calling a command car to
10 send a squad car to the DPW to ask them to
11 get a salt truck up there at the fire scene
12 because they can't get through to the Comm
13 Center, it baffles me why the Comm Center
14 doesn't have a direct line as they would --
15 I mean, they can get Chief Elliott, they can
16 get Chief Davis any time they want.
17 You know, and that -- I think if you
18 listen, you'd hear that probably 100 times
19 during this storm the Comm Center would say
20 to the police or fire, whoever is calling
21 them, we can't get through to the DPW, the
22 phone must be off the hook or whatever.
23 So, I think we need a dedicated
24 line. I think that needs to be done
25 immediately.
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1 If the police can't get a hold of
2 the DPW, then we're in some serious trouble.
3 They're not calling for jokes, they're
4 serious and they're calling in, it's a
5 serious situation, possibly an emergency.
6 And I don't want to take up -- I
7 know everybody has things to say, and I
8 don't want to, you know, step on anybody's
9 toes here, but they were just some of the
10 things. I have other things that I'll
11 discuss with you at a later date.
12 I do believe that we need to have a
13 committee, and obviously Mr. McGoff, that's
14 his committee, and maybe one other of us,
15 and maybe some citizens and see what we
16 could or can't do.
17 MS. EVANS: Mr. Courtright, I
18 believe you should be on that committee as
19 chair of public safety, and perhaps your
20 partner could be Chief Elliott and approach
21 it from that point, as well as through the
22 DPW.
23 MR. COURTRIGHT: I would be happy to
24 do that. There was one other thing, and
25 when she spoke, I lost my train of thought.
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1 That's all right.
2 Well, let me just say this, I don't
3 know how much heat, sleet, hail and snow
4 came down at what time, I know it was bad,
5 but I can recall during the Connors
6 Administration two blizzards, all right, and
7 then during the McNulty, I believe, 20 to 21
8 inches, and somehow we handled it.
9 So, maybe we need to take a step
10 back and take a look and see what they did
11 differently than what we're doing now.
12 And, again, I'm not trying to point
13 fingers, I just don't want to see happen any
14 time in the future, whether it's this
15 administration or a future administration,
16 have the problems that we have existing now.
17 There's still, still a lot of places
18 that are bad, I believe, where you can't
19 make turns.
20 As far as DPW, you can only ask so
21 much of a worker. They can only work so
22 many hours. And I know some people are
23 upset with the fact that we use private
24 haulers, but I think in a storm of this
25 magnitude, we need to use private haulers.
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20
1 A man can't drive 24 hours, you
2 know, he's going to end up getting in an
3 accident.
4 I would hope that, and I don't know
5 if you have this, do you or do you not have
6 private haulers on standby that we call as
7 soon as we know this event is going to be
8 and say, you know, we want you to be ready
9 to come out.
10 And one last thing, and I'll let the
11 rest of you speak, I don't know what ton
12 trucks you call them, but the little red
13 trucks I always see Sam Vitras and Ernie
14 DeStefano driving in, to me they're
15 virtually worthless on big streets.
16 I could see small streets and
17 allies. We need those big type trucks
18 coming down to plow a snowstorm like this,
19 and that's why I think the garbage trucks
20 could possible handle this.
21 I understand there's going to be a
22 cost for putting rigging and whatnot on the
23 garbage trucks, and I'm not asking for the
24 garbage trucks to be used in every single
25 storm event, just in a major one, such as
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1 this. And I'm sure they'll cover whatever I
2 didn't. I thank you for listening.
3 MR. PARKER: May I address some of
4 these issues?
5 MS. GATELLI: Yes.
6 MR. PARKER: First of all, we're
7 open to any suggestion from Council or the
8 public or whomever. We're open to working
9 with people, working with Council, to get
10 better solutions to any problem that we have
11 in the Department of Public Works.
12 I can tell you that when I was with
13 PennDOT, I worked on a snow task force in
14 Pike County for nine months with the county
15 commissioners or their representatives,
16 people from the general public, et cetera,
17 and I know these things are beneficial, and,
18 again, I'm very willing to do that.
19 I'm willing to work with you, sir,
20 Mr. Courtright, Mr. McGoff, who, I believe,
21 is the designee for public works, also, and
22 work with both of you and whomever you
23 designate.
24 With regard to your first suggestion
25 with plows on the garbage trucks, I believe
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22
1 that is more successful in a place such as
2 New York City, where you have flat areas.
3 It is very difficult to do snowplowing with
4 a pack master, so to speak.
5 We have a lot of hills in Scranton,
6 and trying to push snow with one of those
7 vehicles is difficult.
8 Relative to 100 percent salt prior
9 to a storm, while I agree with the concept,
10 I would not agree with the material.
11 Prior to the storm, placing salt, it
12 will be blown off the road and be in the
13 gutter line before precipitation gets on top
14 of it.
15 You are probably aware of or have
16 probably seen the liquid distributor-type
17 trucks that are used by PennDOT. That, to
18 me, would be an excellent concept to use in
19 Scranton for this reason.
20 MR. COURTRIGHT: We don't have that,
21 though, correct?
22 MR. PARKER: Understood. But I'm
23 not saying we shouldn't buy one. In
24 actuality, that type of an application and
25 that type of a truck would work better on a
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23
1 city street than it does a state highway,
2 because when it is placed on a state
3 highway, you probably seen it, it's many
4 hours before the storm.
5 As the high speed of vehicles, a lot
6 of that gets blown away. I know it's not
7 granular, but it still gets blown away.
8 Tires track it up and it leaves the
9 pavement.
10 Where you have low speed limits,
11 such as 25 miles per hour in the city, that
12 will remain on the pavement where you want
13 it for a longer period of time.
14 So, yes, I agree that an application
15 prior to the storm is good, however, it
16 would have to be something liquid.
17 Chains on the police vehicles, I
18 will not address, that is not my business.
19 Snow emergency routes, I'm very
20 familiar with snow emergency routes, I
21 remember them when I was a kid, we had signs
22 -- there was signs on the poles, top half
23 was red, bottom half was white, and all the
24 language was there.
25 I don't know if there are any of
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24
1 those remaining --
2 MR. COURTRIGHT: I couldn't find
3 them.
4 MR. PARKER: -- on any utility
5 poles. I do believe they are excellent, and
6 our own city code provides that snow
7 emergency routes can be used and marked by
8 the Department of Public Safety Director and
9 Director of Department of Public Works.
10 I would very much like to sit down
11 with people and designate what those routes
12 are. They may all already be in some
13 archives somewhere actually designated, so
14 there's no effort at all. Putting them back
15 into effect, I think, is an excellent idea.
16 Alternate parking, I was interviewed
17 by a reporter on December the 6th of 2006
18 regarding snow removal efforts, and one of
19 the things that I pointed out to him and
20 asked him to put in the article was a
21 request to people of the city to voluntarily
22 do this for the good of the people trying to
23 remove the snow, as well as the citizens
24 themselves.
25 Isn't it a lot easier to know that
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25
1 on an odd day if you don't park on that side
2 and there's a snowstorm, the Department of
3 Public Works will try to plow that and you
4 don't spend hours digging out a parking
5 space. Conversely, if it's an even day, the
6 reverse.
7 If the storm lasts for a couple days
8 or is difficult to remove, you may have to
9 do it for a couple days.
10 But, in my opinion, that
11 inconvenience is worth all of that labor to
12 say nothing of the mounds of snow that are
13 left now, which are turning to ice.
14 Relative to the comments by former
15 officials of the city, I take them as good
16 points. I will tell you again, however,
17 that even the blizzards that were in the
18 past, and I will speak of anything from late
19 1960s on that I was aware of from a work
20 standpoint, this particular storm was the
21 most difficult to deal with because of the
22 composition, and I won't keep reiterating
23 that.
24 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else?
25 MS. EVANS: Yes. Indeed the
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26
1 composition of the storm was very trying,
2 but the weather predictions were also made
3 well in advance. I remember hearing them,
4 oh, at least 48 hours in advance and that
5 there would be a change over to sleet and
6 freezing rain and then a change over, once
7 again, to heavy snow that would continue
8 throughout Wednesday. Now, in advance of
9 that storm, was anything placed on the
10 roads?
11 MR. PARKER: No, there was not, for
12 the reason I stated before. Placing
13 anti-skid material, which is like sand,
14 granular and/or salt as we buy it and store
15 it, like you see in the bins, would not
16 remain on the pavement. The vehicles
17 driving over it would just keep blowing it
18 off to the gutter line.
19 The only thing that would work in a
20 situation like that is what I was saying
21 before, liquid material, which is sprayed
22 onto the road, and it will last for several
23 hours, and then as the storm begins to fall,
24 begins to form a water film underneath it.
25 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mrs. Evans, could i
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27
1 interrupt you for one second? I'm sorry.
2 Is that a possibility that there's any
3 funding for us to be able to get that type
4 of vehicle or is that -- like, is there any
5 type of grants that would be available for
6 that or are we just going to have to come up
7 with that in a capital-budget-type-thing?
8 MR. PARKER: I will say that I am
9 not aware of any grants. That doesn't mean
10 we can't look into that.
11 MR. COURTRIGHT: I think we all
12 agree, that that's something this city could
13 certainly use.
14 MS. EVANS: Well, actually I don't
15 know why the city doesn't have it. If Mr.
16 Parker is aware that the other materials
17 that are available to the city are of
18 absolutely no use, why are we prepared then
19 with nothing?
20 MR. PARKER: Well, I say of no use
21 prior to the storm.
22 MS. EVANS: Prior to the storm, yes.
23 Could you tell me, please, how many shifts
24 were working on February 13 and 14th, and
25 how many men per shift?
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28
1 MR. PARKER: We made our first call
2 out, I believe, at eight o'clock p.m. on the
3 13th, which was approximately the time the
4 storm began.
5 We had persons driving anywhere from
6 13 to 15 trucks with plows for 24 hours a
7 day, I believe, into the 15th, and maybe
8 even the 16th. And I don't mean to be
9 factitious but I'm starting to loose track
10 of days. But we did have people, suffice it
11 to say, 24 hours a day.
12 MS. EVANS: 24 hours a day from
13 February 13 at 8 p.m. to February 15
14 approximately. And do you know how many DPW
15 workers were employed on those days during
16 those shifts?
17 MR. PARKER: Some of them worked
18 more than eight hours a day, some of them
19 worked 12, some of them worked longer.
20 We were to the point by the 14th
21 that we were doing callouts of pack master
22 drivers, also, to supplement the people in
23 the roads and highway sections in order so
24 they could get some sleep.
25 So, at any given day or any given
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29
1 hour, there were 13 or 15 people driving
2 plows and trucks, plus you have to include
3 loader operators.
4 MS. EVANS: So, you said you had, I
5 believe, 15 trucks out 24 hours a day.
6 That's our entire fleet, our entire force in
7 terms of snow removal?
8 MR. PARKER: Because of the amount
9 of equipment, yes. Now, in addition to
10 that, we supplemented those people with
11 subcontractors.
12 MS. EVANS: Yes. Do you know how
13 many contractors? I believe it was stated
14 in the newspaper that ten were hired and
15 that we had 12 trucks on the road, 12 DPW
16 trucks.
17 MR. PARKER: They were brought out
18 at different times, so at any given time, I
19 don't know how many were out. There were in
20 excess of 15 that were probably about 20, if
21 you count contractors.
22 MS. EVANS: Do you know how many
23 trucks the city utilized, let's say, ten
24 years ago for a snow removal?
25 MR. PARKER: I do not.
.
30
1 MS. EVANS: Perhaps we can get the
2 information later, maybe from Mr. Vitras,
3 but I had heard it numbered in the thirties,
4 which might begin to explain why the snow
5 removal was more efficient years ago.
6 Can you tell me, please, why the DPW
7 continued to collect trash on Wednesday,
8 February 13?
9 MR. PARKER: If I can, may I go back
10 to your other statement first --
11 MS. EVANS: Yes.
12 MR. PARKER: -- relative to the 30
13 trucks. The only way that I can see that
14 the department could operate 30 trucks would
15 be have 30 operators. We don't have that
16 many operators. So, maybe in those years,
17 there were that many people working that
18 could do that.
19 Your question relative to collecting
20 refuse, in the initial hours of the storm,
21 we had people reporting to work, those who
22 were in the highway section, those who were
23 in the refuse and recycling section.
24 After every snow removal vehicle was
25 manned, I took the stance that we're not
.
31
1 going to send everybody home. Let's at
2 least make an effort to collect some of the
3 refuse, we would be that much less far
4 behind than we would be if we didn't, so
5 that was the only reason.
6 MS. EVANS: Well, I'm not an
7 engineer, but I would believe that the men
8 would be better used in some capacity
9 towards snow removal, rather than trash
10 collection.
11 But I do believe the DPW workers did
12 a sterling job and continue to do so, and I
13 realize that they take orders from
14 superiors, and they are doing what they are
15 told to do, they are going where they are
16 told to go.
17 MR. PARKER: Please understand, when
18 you talk refuse and recycling, you have,
19 say, 10 or 11 refuse trucks and four or five
20 recycling trucks at any given time, so let's
21 use the number 15, in order to put those
22 trucks on the road, you need 45 people, you
23 need and a driver and two collectors on each
24 one.
25 If the drivers are being used for
.
32
1 snow removal, the other 30 people, there's
2 no sense sending them home.
3 You can't shovel it with laborers,
4 so in the effort to get some refuse
5 collected and recycling, that's why it was
6 my decision to send them.
7 MS. EVANS: But I think, again, as
8 Mr. Courtright already mentioned, there were
9 for many years plows on, I don't know if you
10 want to call them pack masters, and in that
11 event, you know, certainly if we were still
12 as well equipped as once we were, those men
13 wouldn't have to go home, they would have
14 work to do, and it would be work that was
15 critical at that point in time.
16 MR. PARKER: May I also add, in the
17 years you're talking about, and I don't know
18 exactly when they were, but they may have
19 been in the days when refuse was being
20 collected in dump trucks, too, not pack
21 masters.
22 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm talking about
23 pack masters, and I hate to interrupt you
24 again, but you've done that to me, so I
25 don't feel too bad.
.
33
1 MS. EVANS: Absolutely.
2 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm not going to
3 put Mrs. Garvey on the spot, but her street
4 didn't get plowed until Saturday after the
5 storm, the 2200 of Ballau.
6 And I'm not going to say any refuse
7 workers names, because I don't want to get
8 anybody mad at their coworkers, but they're
9 saying that if it was a guy driving a pack
10 master. He knows which way to get to her
11 street.
12 You had a plow truck one block away
13 from her street that wouldn't go down it
14 because they were afraid of getting stuck.
15 And I don't know if the guy wasn't familiar
16 with the area or not.
17 That's why I thought if somebody
18 driving a pack master, they're in that area
19 all the time, who better knows than that
20 individual?
21 MR. PARKER: Well, you need to
22 understand, too, that the driver who's
23 driving that plow truck is aware of what
24 conditions he can attempt to do something.
25 Understand that those persons
.
34
1 driving those plow trucks are familiar with
2 their areas, also. We don't keep sending
3 people to different sections of the city.
4 Most people have a designated area,
5 and once we have a snow call out, they know
6 automatically what area they're going to;
7 for example, you're going to Green Ridge or
8 you're going to North Scranton or you're
9 going to East Mountain or you're going to
10 Keyser Valley.
11 Each operator, for the most part,
12 unless people are sick or whatever, are
13 going to the area during the storm seasons.
14 MR. COURTRIGHT: Okay. Sorry.
15 MS. EVANS: That's okay. Were there
16 prearranged locations designated for the
17 deposit of snow?
18 MR. PARKER: Once we were hauling,
19 we were -- we had, in previous years at
20 least during my tenure, used the South Side
21 Complex, a portion of Nay Aug Park and the
22 farmer's market, and this year we also used
23 the land The Ice Box on Providence Road.
24 MS. EVANS: It's my understanding
25 that some of the subcontractors, when they
.
35
1 approached the South Side Complex, they were
2 turned away by another contractor, who's
3 employed by both the University of Scranton
4 and the City of Scranton, and they were told
5 this is the University's property, and get
6 going.
7 They then travelled to the area of
8 the farmer's market to try to deposit the
9 snow. Once again, they were told, this is
10 private property, get going. And then at
11 that point, and from that, let's say, point
12 in time forward, the snow was taken to the
13 area of the Riverfront Sports Complex for
14 all deposit.
15 MR. PARKER: Okay. May I give you
16 my version of that story?
17 MS. EVANS: Certainly.
18 MR. PARKER: Thank you. We asked in
19 advance relative to departmenting snow at
20 the South Side Complex. All the time that
21 the city was hauling snow, we were hauling
22 it to the South Side Complex until such time
23 as we couldn't fit any more there.
24 We then began hauling snow to the
25 real estate owned by the farmer's market.
.
36
1 We hauled snow there during one night.
2 I did receive a call the next
3 morning asking me that we no longer haul it
4 there.
5 We then began to haul it to the area
6 of the -- the open area in front of The Ice
7 Box and the sports complex property, and
8 that was by permission, also.
9 As I said, prior years, we had also
10 hauled some to Nay Aug, the area --
11 MS. EVANS: Was Nay Aug utilized?
12 MR. PARKER: I did not use Nay Aug
13 this year, and for the simple reason, I
14 didn't really want to use it other years
15 because of the hauling distance.
16 MS. EVANS: Because of the, I'm
17 sorry?
18 MR. PARKER: Hauling distance, plus
19 the fact you're constantly climbing hills.
20 MS. EVANS: Well, it appears --
21 MR. PARKER: Well, it could be used.
22 MS. EVANS: Yes, I believe it should
23 be used. And I find IT troubling that
24 citizens tell me Nay Aug was nicely cleaned,
25 they had no probably walking their dogs, but
.
37
1 they couldn't, you know, people on the
2 streets couldn't get out of their homes to
3 go to work.
4 So, I don't -- and I have to say,
5 though, I also heard that A good deal of
6 that work was performed by Parks and
7 Recreation, not the DPW.
8 But I do think, again, that's
9 unfortunate. Why isn't Parks and Recreation
10 then working hand and hand with the DPW to
11 clear the streets?
12 I don't think Nay Aug is the
13 priority, and I do believe Nay Aug is the
14 perfect depository for the snow.
15 I think it has been alluded to
16 earlier that selective snow removal has
17 occurred; in that, individuals are able to
18 present lists to either the DPW or lists are
19 given to contractors to go to specific areas
20 for snow removal.
21 And though I do agree with what you
22 originally stated in terms of your snow
23 removal plans, you know, the state --
24 PennDOT clears K routes. The city, well,
25 you were saying the state clears the
.
38
1 state-owned streets, the city clears the
2 city-owned streets and you begin with the
3 main arteries, and that would cover those
4 areas in which school buses travel, those
5 that could be travelled by public safety,
6 the areas of hospitals, et cetera, and I'm
7 certainly in agreement with that.
8 But I have to say, I don't believe
9 in the capacity of anyone from a mayor to a
10 Council member to any city employee getting
11 special or preferential treatment for any
12 blocks over other blocks.
13 I know of one time since I've been
14 seated that I made a phone call about this,
15 and it was during a snowstorm, and I spoke
16 with Mr. Vitras, and I asked him, and it was
17 in the evening, I had been contacted by an
18 individual who's husband was ill and he was
19 scheduled for a surgery to go in for a
20 surgery at 5 a.m., and they were snowed in,
21 and it was imperative that he be at that
22 hospital for that surgery with this
23 particular surgeon, and Mr. Vitras was
24 wonderful, and it was taken care of
25 immediately, and they were able to get to
.
39
1 the hospital.
2 But outside of that, I believe that
3 everyone in this city living on every street
4 and every court and every alley and every
5 place deserves the same treatment.
6 MS. GATELLI: They do, Mrs. Evans,
7 and I know you're referring to me when
8 you're saying that, but when I got the calls
9 at my house, they couldn't get -- reach the
10 DPW, and I felt that I had to tell Mr.
11 Parker the people that were complaining.
12 As a matter of fact, two of them
13 were dialysis patients that were snowed in
14 and couldn't get to dialysis, so they were
15 medical emergencies.
16 MS. EVANS: When it's a medical
17 emergency, I can certainly agree with that,
18 but --
19 MS. GATELLI: Well, I am going to
20 continue to report any phone call that I
21 get.
22 MS. EVANS: And I know, like Mr.
23 Courtright said, we were all inundated with
24 phone calls, I received letters, as well,
25 and people are telling me they missed days
.
40
1 of work, that actual residents went out to
2 clear their own streets, residents helping
3 residents.
4 Those who happen to own their own
5 trucks or plow trucks getting out there
6 utilizing those, using their own shovels and
7 their own labor to get things done that were
8 not done for these people by the City of
9 Scranton, whether it's through the DPW or
10 any of the subcontractors. And I really
11 don't agree.
12 As much as we all heard the
13 complaints and the pleas of countless
14 citizens, I don't believe in preferential
15 treatment, and I don't believe in political
16 treatment either. Everyone sitting here
17 pays taxes.
18 MS. GATELLI: And they all deserve
19 their phone calls to be answered, Mrs.
20 Evans.
21 MS. EVANS: Yes, they do, but they
22 all deserve equal treatment, not because
23 it's my friend's mother.
24 MS. GATELLI: I was out there and I
25 was shoveling for my neighbors.
.
41
1 MS. EVANS: And I was, believe me, I
2 travelled the city, as well, and I was very
3 surprised at what I saw in some areas that
4 were pristine compared to areas of West
5 Scranton, where people are still digging
6 out.
7 There's even differences in Green
8 Ridge. I don't think anybody's fooling
9 anybody here. And I think it goes above
10 you, Mr. Parker.
11 I believe that the mayor missed the
12 boat here, and he knew the weather
13 predictions, and he could have made your job
14 much easier by speaking to the people of the
15 city by virtue of the media and asking them
16 to stay off the streets, asking the downtown
17 to close on Wednesday, asking the people of
18 the city to remove their vehicles from the
19 downtown area, asking the people in the
20 neighborhoods to put their cars in their
21 driveways, their garages, saying as you
22 noted earlier, on odd numbered days, we're
23 going to be clearing odd street sides, even
24 numbered days, even numbered sides. It will
25 continue for as long as necessary. If you
.
42
1 choose to remain in that parking space, you
2 will be plowed in. That's an unfortunate,
3 but that's what is going to happen. And we
4 need you to be cooperative, we need to you
5 remove those vehicles, we need you to stay
6 inside so the DPW can do its work 24 hours a
7 day around the clock until we have this
8 situation in hand. But none of that was
9 done.
10 It seems like a reaction to
11 everything. And I don't know how much would
12 be done right now if it were not for the
13 people of Scranton who are reacting
14 passionately to this, because they, like
15 myself, have lived in this area all our
16 lives and we've never seen this before,
17 never.
18 MR. PARKER: Again, I will
19 reiterate, I have never dealt with a storm
20 such as this in my experience.
21 Number two, I will reiterate that
22 albeit it was not a headline article, I had
23 made the suggestion --
24 MS. EVANS: And I read that article.
25 MR. PARKER: -- to the citizens on
.
43
1 the odd even parking.
2 MS. EVANS: And I was pleased when I
3 read it.
4 MR. PARKER: It is on the 6th of
5 December.
6 MS. EVANS: And I even noted, I
7 remember, I noted on Tuesday to my husband,
8 we're going to follow the odd and even days.
9 Mr. Parker said this was going to be, at
10 least I understood it this way, this was
11 going to be a policy, and I thought that
12 that was a very, very wise decision.
13 But then again, I don't remember
14 anything coming from the mayor telling us
15 about that either.
16 And it just seemed that, you know,
17 eventually what happened was the downtown
18 became the priority, but the people don't
19 live downtown, they live in the
20 neighborhoods. They're not going downtown
21 if they can't get out of their house. They
22 couldn't even get to work. Do you know how
23 much this has cost the people that live in
24 this city?
25 MR. PARKER: This happens in
.
44
1 emergencies, and your notable remark before
2 relative to people helping out and pitching
3 in, that helps in emergencies, too.
4 Relative to the downtown, you must
5 also recognize that a lot of those are your
6 primary routes getting you from one section
7 to the city to the other.
8 We had areas where, even know the
9 snow was plowed, some lanes were either half
10 opened or not opened at all, which just
11 strangulates the city during rush hours in
12 the morning and rush hours at night. That
13 was the purpose for that concentrated
14 effort.
15 The concentrated effort in a snow
16 removal will always be your primary roads
17 first, and it doesn't help if you can get
18 out of your neighborhood secondary street
19 because that was addressed first, if when
20 you get out on the primary road, you can't
21 go.
22 MS. EVANS: And I would agree with
23 that. I stated earlier that I believe your
24 plan is appropriate in the approach to
25 streets in various orders, but I think what
.
45
1 we've been doing is jumping from place to
2 place, too, by request, and unless it's an
3 emergency, it's got to be approached
4 uniformly.
5 MR. PARKER: Well, also you need to
6 know that during a storm, and this went on
7 for days, and when people get frustrated
8 about trying to call the departments because
9 the lines are flooded with calls.
10 We were taking calls, taking each
11 call, separating them in sections of the
12 city so that when we would send people, be
13 they our own department of public works
14 persons or contractors, we would have lists
15 by sections of the city. Go to this
16 section, start on these streets, do these
17 streets and get them done.
18 MS. EVANS: So, you didn't assign
19 them?
20 MR. PARKER: Pardon me?
21 MS. EVANS: In other words, you're
22 waiting for calls? You don't assign the
23 trucks and say, I want you -- you're in this
24 section, you're in this section, you're
25 going to --
.
46
1 MR. PARKER: No, this is well into
2 the storm, well into the storm when things
3 were getting more --
4 MS. EVANS: No, I'm talking about
5 all of these days, not just the 13th.
6 MR. PARKER: In any snowstorm, yes.
7 In any snowstorm the drivers have their
8 assignments, they know which roads they're
9 supposed to plow first, yes.
10 MS. EVANS: I can tell you,
11 gentlemen, while I have you both here, that
12 I also received some calls from residents
13 stating that when they called your
14 departments to report on snow conditions or
15 to ask for help, now I'm not saying this
16 happened every time, because this is only a
17 handful of people compared to all of the
18 complaints I fielded, but senior citizens
19 who had told me that those answering the
20 phone when they finally did get through had
21 treated them very harshly.
22 And certainly we're all frustrated,
23 and everyone here gets frustrated in their
24 job, I'm sure, at least once a day, but
25 that's no reason to take it out on other
.
47
1 people.
2 And I know in my job, I can't take
3 it out on other people. I'm going to keep
4 my good attitude and my wits about me at all
5 times, and so I would just ask you if you
6 could pass that along in your departments,
7 that, you know, when you are, and I do
8 understand you had to be flooded, if we were
9 flooded, I think combined we pale in
10 comparison to the calls you had to field.
11 But please remind everyone, these
12 are taxpayers, and they deserve services,
13 and let's treat them all with respect.
14 MR. ELLIOTT: If I can mention just
15 one thing there, we have a new automated
16 system at the police desk that used to be
17 you can dial 348-4134. When you dial that
18 now, it goes in an automated system, you
19 know, you push a certain number for a
20 certain office you want to get in touch
21 with.
22 But a lot of times we're receiving
23 complaints. I'm not pushing the blame on
24 anybody, and I will look into this, every
25 time we get a complaint, we look into it,
.
48
1 but we have to understand that the police --
2 people call 911 and they call three
3 348-4141, and the same with the fire
4 department, and they are not talking to
5 police officers, they are talking to
6 dispatchers from Lackawanna County.
7 Now, every time I've talked to Tom
8 Dubas, he's been great and he's addressed
9 any problems or concerns we had, and I will
10 give him a call tomorrow and see if he can
11 look into this.
12 Because all of those calls are taped
13 that come in there. He looks at them --
14 every time we got a complaint, he pulls the
15 call right up and we actually listen to the
16 call to see if it was an officer.
17 A lot of times the Comm Center will
18 transfer a call over to our desk, and
19 sometimes it's an officer, sometimes it's a
20 dispatcher, so I will look into that.
21 And like you said, when you're
22 getting over and over the same type of
23 calls, and, you know, we're trying to pass
24 them onto where they belong to DPW, so it's
25 just non-stop all night.
.
49
1 The frustrations I can understand
2 the officers having, but like you said, you
3 can't treat people that way, and neither can
4 we. So, I will look into it and I'll talk
5 to the supervisors and also Tom Dubas.
6 MS. EVANS: Thank you very much.
7 And I think lastly I'd just like to say that
8 I don't know that it's really Mr. Parker
9 that can provide all of this, but I really
10 would like a list of all the overtime
11 beginning on February 13 to date, also all
12 of the invoices and paid bills for all of
13 the contractors that were hired by the city.
14 And, you know, I'm not as concerned
15 about the financial end of it, as I am about
16 the fact that I want to be certain that full
17 forces were going at all times.
18 MR. PARKER: You will surely know
19 that when you see the bill.
20 MS. EVANS: Thank you.
21 MR. COURTRIGHT: One last thing. I
22 want to try to clear something up. I don't
23 know if the individual that spoke to Mrs.
24 Evans about favoritism is the same one that
25 called me.
.
50
1 I got a call from a person I know
2 that was working for a private hauler, and
3 he said they were handed a list that did not
4 come from you, and I'm not going to say a
5 name where he said it came from, and he told
6 me where they were sent to, and I went
7 there, and sure enough, that's where they
8 haul from. But he specifically told me the
9 list did not come from you. And I'm not
10 going to say who he said it came from, I
11 don't want to start a war here.
12 MR. PARKER: I'm sorry. I don't
13 think I understand what you're saying.
14 MR. COURTRIGHT: A private hauler
15 that was hauling snow for the city, one of
16 their employees is a friend of mine, and he
17 called me and pretty much said that just
18 about the same story that she just said. I
19 wasn't going to say anything.
20 MS. EVANS: Well, I was told two
21 lists, but they're not from you, Mr. Parker.
22 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yeah, they said two
23 lists, two different people, lists of where
24 to go and haul snow away from, and he said
25 it did not come from you.
.
51
1 And I just went to two of the
2 locations, I wasn't going to be riding
3 around the city looking to see where they
4 hauled snow from, and sure enough he was
5 right, you know, but I just wanted to clear
6 it up that he specifically said it did not
7 come from you. So, I'm not going to point
8 the finger at you for that one.
9 MR. PARKER: That still doesn't mean
10 it doesn't concern me, because it does.
11 MR. COURTRIGHT: And that's why I
12 bring it up so maybe you can address it, you
13 know.
14 MR. PARKER: Again, our sites for
15 hauling, with the exception of the farmer's
16 market, which I did not call anyone in
17 advance, I ran out of room at te South Side
18 Complex in the middle of the night and
19 directed the trucks to, not only directed
20 them to the farmer's market, sent equipment
21 ahead --
22 MR. COURTRIGHT: It's not the site
23 I'm talking about, it's the site they went
24 and took the snow from. They were getting
25 favors, is what he's telling me.
.
52
1 I'm going to Dave Elliott's house
2 because so and so told me, and it wasn't
3 Dave Elliott, so --
4 MR. ELLIOTT: I was the last
5 driveway plowed.
6 MR. PARKER: Not only were we making
7 lists for drivers to make sure they were
8 going to where they should be going, we were
9 dividing them by section of the city and we
10 were also keeping a separate list of where,
11 both of you referenced emergency calls,
12 where there were maybe someone has to go for
13 dialysis the next day or someone who had
14 surgery in two days and we were trying to
15 keep those on a separate list so they
16 weren't mixed in with the whole pile.
17 MR. COURTRIGHT: I was just trying
18 to clear you of that one. I know you have
19 enough on your head. That's it. I'm done.
20 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: My concerns, we
21 definitely know that we did not handle this
22 the best that we could, and we have to learn
23 to get down to business and figure out what
24 we can do to make it better, not that we
25 were pointing fingers or looking to point
.
53
1 fingers, because there's really not a way to
2 duplicate a storm next time to say that this
3 storm is going to be the same as next.
4 We definitely have a lot of issues,
5 though, on the way and procedures and the
6 way we handle them.
7 Right now my concern is the
8 visibility with some snow piles around. You
9 know, we did clean downtown. I think it's a
10 good thing, because with a lot of
11 pedestrians and cars, my concern was
12 accidents and pedestrian problems going on
13 because the visibility was so bad.
14 This is what I think we need to
15 address in the rest of the city, not as much
16 -- I mean, I'm not saying let's take all the
17 snow and pile it wherever we can find it,
18 but we need to find places right now just
19 for our corners. I'm more worried about the
20 corners of the streets than I am anything
21 else right now.
22 Some people still aren't dug out, so
23 I don't know about even and odd sides at
24 this point, because we still have cars that
25 are still in heaps of snow, and I think that
.
54
1 that's probably a problem for the drivers,
2 too.
3 I don't know, I'm not a driver, but
4 I can imagine that you're trying to plow and
5 there's all cars. I don't know where you
6 would even put the snow.
7 We need to figure out a way and a
8 system for our corners and our visibility
9 sections where we know our children -- we
10 said schools and places where we have our
11 kids and places on the way to hospitals and
12 things like that, but it seems that the
13 corners of the city on a lot of the streets,
14 when you're coming out on Harrison Avenue or
15 coming out on those very busy streets, the
16 visibility is not there for you to even get
17 to where you need to get.
18 And right now that's my only
19 concern. We can't change what we've done,
20 but we need to address what we have now.
21 And are there any plans for that?
22 And what can we do to make that an easier
23 transition?
24 MR. PARKER: By virtue of the
25 transition while it's taken place during the
.
55
1 storm, our concentration both yesterday and
2 today has been to continue to try to open
3 allies and courts and also remove snow from
4 corners where we do have a real visibility
5 problem.
6 There are other corners that are
7 piled, but you can still -- you know,
8 drivers' positions to see over the top of
9 the snow. Those we're not going to remove
10 just to remove it.
11 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Do we have any
12 idea when we can expect to see more of
13 visibility? How long do we think it's going
14 to take in the state that we are?
15 I know our guys have to be
16 exhausted. I can't even imagine after what
17 they've been going through, the timing. And
18 I have to say, I'm going to commend what
19 they've done, because it's been amazing to
20 even be able to tackle such a storm.
21 But how are we going to say to the
22 people who keep calling us? What can we
23 say? Here's a target time, we're hoping
24 this is a done issue by when? I mean,
25 waiting for it to melt is not really -- with
.
56
1 the amount of inches we've had.
2 MR. PARKER: I will tell you in all
3 honesty, I cannot give you a date, and I can
4 tell you it for this reason, in the areas
5 where we cannot plow snow by virtue of the
6 fact that it is too deep to plow or it's too
7 much ice in it or there's no place left or
8 right to plow to, such as 16-foot wide
9 allies, in areas where we have snow that is
10 two feet deep, and in some places higher
11 than the plow blades, and in some places
12 where snow has been purposely deposited by
13 people, which that is a whole other subject
14 --
15 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Right.
16 MR. PARKER: -- and some places we
17 have that six ir more feet deep. The only
18 way to get it out is to take it out with
19 front ended loaders or backhoes. That is a
20 very time consuming effort.
21 When you look at a parking lot for a
22 shopping center and say, Well, gee, that's
23 all clean. Well, that's fine. You have all
24 the room in the world to work.
25 If you're talking a 16-foot wide
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1 court, you have to drive the vehicle in,
2 scoop it up, back it out, put it in the
3 truck and just keep doing that. You can
4 take up to an hour or more just to do one
5 plow of the court.
6 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I think anybody
7 that's tried to shovel the snow realizes
8 that it was not -- even the ice was
9 ridiculous.
10 MR. PARKER: It's a very time
11 consuming effort.
12 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Another issue
13 that I've gotten phone calls on, not only
14 the ice, but people throwing the snow and
15 cleaning off their spots and throwing it
16 back into the street again, is that a
17 problem? Is that something that DPW, we
18 should be talking about?
19 People are furious, calling me
20 saying, you know what, they just plowed my
21 street and now the guy dug out and threw all
22 of his snow back onto the street again.
23 So, as far as the city is concerned,
24 maybe we need to be more conscious of not
25 trying to undo what we're doing.
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58
1 I know it's hard, I know it myself.
2 You're trying to dig out, you don't know
3 where to put the snow.
4 What is the policy on that? Is
5 there a policy? There's an ordinance,
6 correct?
7 MR. PARKER: It's more than policy.
8 It's an ordinance, yes. You're correct.
9 It's more than a policy, it's an ordinance,
10 that persons are not allowed to throw snow
11 into the street. In the city code, I
12 believe there's also an ordinance.
13 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I'm going to
14 commend our people in this situation. This
15 has been a very difficult, difficult storm.
16 I can't even believe the amount of ice and
17 snow that we've had. And how many days,
18 four days that the kids -- I mean, it seems
19 like the kids have been off forever. But
20 next time we need to have a better plan in
21 effect.
22 And I don't think that saying that
23 the guys didn't do their job -- there was no
24 way. I mean, you can have -- they were out
25 24 hours a day. In fact, I know someone
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59
1 who's married to one of the DPW guys, and
2 she said, you know, I haven't seen my
3 husband in four days. He just has not been
4 home. He lays his head on the pillow for
5 five seconds and he's back again.
6 And this is something that we want
7 to make their job easier, too. I mean,
8 that's what it's about. It's about trying
9 to do the right thing for all of us so that
10 they aren't burdened and exhausted all of
11 the time, also.
12 So, this is something that I think
13 the idea that Bill had to sit down and make
14 a committee and do the right thing, sit down
15 and decide what we can do to make this
16 easier is a great idea. I think that would
17 help a lot.
18 MR. PARKER: I welcome that
19 opportunity, and I will work with them. As
20 I said, I worked on a snow task force for
21 six months in Pike County with the
22 Department of Transportation over this exact
23 same issue, a little different because
24 there's different levels of government
25 involved and different states involved.
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60
1 There are things that can be done,
2 absolutely, to make this whole situation
3 more workable and also better for the
4 citizens of the city.
5 And, again, some of it is going to
6 take some cooperation, and, you know,
7 changing of ways we do things.
8 People are going to be
9 inconvenienced, but, again, in my mind, that
10 inconvenience for a day or two is a lot more
11 or a lot better, excuse me, than
12 inconvenience for a week or more.
13 MS. EVANS: I agree with that, that,
14 yes, we need a plan, and, yes, the citizens
15 have to cooperate with that plan, but I
16 think, also, we need to put our financial
17 priorities in order, because people deserve
18 basic services like snow removal, leaf
19 removal, trash collection, public safety,
20 and I think those are the areas that should
21 be the city's priority giving the DPW what
22 it needs to do the job to take care of the
23 people of the city. And that's far more
24 important than tree houses and bridges and
25 consultants.
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61
1 You know, I think the job of
2 government is to take care of the people, as
3 was said earlier, to take care of the people
4 who can't take care of themselves.
5 And that's certainly not your realm,
6 gentlemen, the financial realm, but it is
7 something I believe that has to go hand and
8 hand with the plan.
9 MS. GATELLI: We've got several
10 complaints in the office today from Minella
11 Place, so if you could mark that down and
12 check it out for tomorrow.
13 Also, we might want to contact Mr.
14 Fiorini, because we've gotten numerous
15 complaints about sidewalks not being
16 shoveled, especially near schools, and the
17 children are walking in the street.
18 The complaint I got was near South
19 Scranton down on Elm and Maple Street, and
20 none of the sidewalks are cleaned down
21 there. So, if you want to -- maybe, Kay,
22 you can call Mr. Fiorini tomorrow and ask
23 him if he's getting complaints about
24 sidewalks not being shoveled. He needs to
25 cite those people, and he can under the BOCA
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62
1 Code.
2 MS. EVANS: I think, though, you
3 might want to be careful with that, in that,
4 some of these -- I'm not saying, I don't
5 know any of these individuals, but there are
6 often cases of senior citizens who are
7 unable to clear their sidewalks.
8 And I will tell you what, it's very
9 difficult today to find teenagers or
10 children who are willing to do shoveling,
11 you know --
12 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Especially this
13 snow.
14 MS. EVANS: -- for any amount of
15 money, so many of them are left to their,
16 you know, their own devices, and certainly
17 they're too elderly or not in the best of
18 health so that they can actually perform
19 those duties and responsibilities, and I
20 certainly don't want to see those
21 individuals fined.
22 MS. GATELLI: Well, the ones I'm
23 talking about are all businesses, so they
24 should be able to clean their sidewalks.
25 One is an assisted living, and the sidewalks
63
1 on the bridges.
2 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yeah. Do we have
3 any timeline on at least one side for the
4 Lackawanna Avenue and Linden Street bridge?
5 People are walking out on the road.
6 MR. PARKER: I don't have a
7 timeline. The people that I have removing
8 snow manually or with a snow blower --
9 MR. COURTRIGHT: They're going to
10 need a backhoe now or something. It's
11 frozen there.
12 MR. PARKER: Their first effort was
13 the areas of bridges where we have flood
14 protection gates, in order that they would
15 be freed of ice and snow in case we have to,
16 for some reason, close them.
17 But I am aware of the bridges. We
18 have a list of the bridges that we're
19 required to clear, sidewalks, and we're
20 methodically doing it. They're not all done
21 obviously.
22 MS. GATELLI: And I just had one
23 more question, when you talked about the
24 liquid that's put on the streets, I do see
25 PennDOT doing that on Pittston Avenue and
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64
1 Cedar Avenue, well, it didn't work this
2 time, because they were more horrendous than
3 the side streets. Pittston Avenue wasn't
4 cleaned for three days. So, you know, I
5 don't know about that liquid thing, if it's
6 going to work.
7 MR. PARKER: We can get into a lot
8 of technical conversation here, but
9 generally it does work, okay? It generally
10 does work.
11 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Does anyone on
12 Council have any other questions?
13 MR. PARKER: One of the main things
14 relative to that question, and we won't get
15 into it any deeper, but the temperatures
16 that you had.
17 On the nights of the storm, I
18 believe the temperature was about six
19 degrees or ten degrees.
20 When you get into applications of
21 salt, I believe they're only good to
22 16 degrees, and once you get below that,
23 unless you have sun working with you, you're
24 not going to see it work. If it's nighttime
25 and you have salt, it's not going to melt.
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65
1 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Does anyone
2 have anything else? Okay. Thank you very
3 much. We will just take a five-minute
4 recess before we continue with the regular
5 meeting.
6 (RECESS WAS TAKEN.)
7 MS. GATELLI: Call the meeting back
8 to order.
9 MS. GARVEY: Third order. 3-A,
10 AGENDA FOR THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
11 MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 20, 2007.
12 MS. GATELLI: Are there any
13 comments? If not, received and filed.
14 MS. GARVEY: Fourth order. Citizens
15 participation, agenda items only.
16 MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Franus.
17 MS. FRANUS: Fay Franus. I was just
18 wondering on the agenda, this property on
19 Cedar Avenue, you're going to give this loan
20 for $250,000, I'm just trying to figure out
21 why would you give somebody a loan for
22 $250,000 when that property isn't worth that
23 much? I can't understand this.
24 I mean, the property is nowhere near
25 worth $250,000, so what's the --
.
66
1 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: The business.
2 It's for the business, also. It's the
3 business, it's new equipment, it's business,
4 it's operating costs, it's everything. It's
5 not just property.
6 MS. FRANUS: So, that's what makes
7 the difference?
8 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Right.
9 MS. FRANUS: All right. Thank you.
10 MS. GATELLI: Andy Sbaraglia.
11 MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia,
12 citizen of Scranton. Fellow Scrantonians,
13 we're on the agenda, 7-A. Do we have all
14 the answers to that question? In other
15 words, we know who their participations are
16 in this LLC? Who are they?
17 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: It is just one
18 gentleman. The person who's listed is the
19 only -- there are no partners in this
20 business whatsoever.
21 MR. SBARAGLIA: Okay. And you said
22 the collateral is the building?
23 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: No, I said the
24 collateral -- they used the building as part
25 of the collateral,