6 Held:

7 Thursday, March 30, 2006



10 Time:

11 6:30 p.m.



14 Location:

15 The Renaissance Center

16 705 Pittston Avenue

17 Scranton, Pennsylvania






23 Lisa M. Graff, RMR

24 Court Reporter





























1 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Please stand for

2 the Pledge Of Allegiance. Please remain standing for a

3 moment of reflection. Roll call, Neil.

4 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

5 MS. EVANS: Here.

6 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.

7 MS. FANUCCI: Here.

8 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.


10 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


12 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

13 MS. GATELLI: Here. Dispense with the

14 reading the minutes.



17 MS. GATELLI: Are there any comments?

18 If not, received and filed.



21 12, 2006.

22 MS. GATELLI: Are there any comments?

23 If not, received and filed.




1 MS. GATELLI: Are there any comments?

2 Kay, please send a letter to Mr. Parker concerning that

3 petition.



6 MS. GATELLI: Are there any comments?

7 Also send that, Kay, with a letter.

8 MS. GARVEY: Okay. Clerk's notes. I

9 do have a few things tonight. First is the flooding on

10 North Cameron Avenue and Lafayette Street, it'd be

11 probably easier if I just tell you what's in the

12 letter. There was a visit on this site by Charles

13 Matthews, supervisor of the Department of Roads and

14 Bridges, revealed that there are three inlets at the

15 intersection. While it was not raining during the

16 visit, evidence indicates that there had been some

17 flooding at some time in the past.

18 The problem with the road is such that

19 at times during a heavy storm, water flows from Keyser

20 Avenue to the entrance area of the street outside the

21 area as a result of water volume.

22 The only logical explanation at this

23 time would be that the catch basins need to be cleaned.

24 The Scranton Sewer Authority has been advised of the

25 situation and has requested they clean those inlets.


1 The next one is regarding Councilman

2 Courtright's requests about catch basins on Jackson and

3 Main and the 300 block of Phelps.

4 The intersection of Jackson and Main

5 has a broken top and is in need of repair. It was

6 broken a few months ago as a result of a truck driving

7 over it. The delay in making the necessary repairs is

8 due to the cold temperatures in relationship to the

9 ready mix cement used in the repair. We shall begin

10 work on the repairs as soon as the temperature allows.

11 In regards to the 300 blocks of Phelps,

12 on the site of the inlets shows them to be serviceable

13 and present no danger to either vehicle or pedestrian

14 traffic. There was one, and it was removed. We will

15 ask the Sewer Authority to clean all the inlets on that

16 street.

17 Councilwoman Evans' request about the

18 100 block of Court Street, potholes had been repaired.

19 Also, the Scranton Sewer Authority cleaned the catch

20 basin at the intersection of Marion Street and Gardner

21 Avenue.

22 Regarding Councilwoman Evans' requests,

23 stop signs for Mountain Lake Road and Yesu Drive, Yesu

24 Drive intersects Mountain Lake Road, a T-intersection.

25 Currently there is a stop sign on Yesu Drive. There


1 are two stop signs on Mountain Lake Road and Leslie

2 Drive approximately 200 feet from the intersection.

3 There is not adequate site distance for

4 vehicles that are stopped on Yesu Drive, therefore,

5 it's his opinion that two stop signs be placed on

6 Mountain Lake Road for vehicles approaching Yesu Drive.

7 I think this would be another one of

8 Mrs. Evans. Price Street and North Rebecca Avenue,

9 there's a three-way intersection with North Rebecca

10 being one way. There are currently two stop signs on

11 Price Street for vehicles approaching North Rebecca

12 Avenue.

13 There is adequate site distance for the

14 vehicles that are stopped on Price Street looking in a

15 southwesterly direction. Therefore, it is his opinion

16 that no additional signage is warranted in that

17 intersection.

18 Mrs. Fanucci's request for Olive Street

19 and Colfax Avenue, it's a one-way intersection. There

20 are currently two stop signs on Colfax Avenue. There

21 is adequate site distance for the vehicles stopped on

22 Colfax Avenue approaching Olive Street, therefore, it

23 is his opinion, once again, that additional signage is

24 not warranted in that location. And that's all I have.

25 MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Mrs. Garvey.


1 I just have a few things. First of all, I'd like to

2 thank the South Side Residents Association for having

3 us welcome into their building. They provided the

4 refreshments. The new president is Wayne Evans. The

5 cakes were donated by Lynn Sandy, who also has a

6 business in South Scranton.

7 908 Pittston Avenue in the rear has

8 been torn down. St. Francis of Assisi Church is having

9 their spring festival this Sunday, April 2 from twelve

10 to four. Boy Scout Troop 11, of which one of our

11 junior councilmen is a member, Jerome Singleton, is

12 having a spaghetti dinner on April 29 from four to

13 seven at the Dunmore Presbyterian Church.

14 The South Side cleanup is Saturday,

15 April 8 from ten to twelve. We will meet right here at

16 705 Pittston Avenue. The Junior Council is going to

17 help us. We're asking for any volunteers to come just

18 for two hours. If you can't do the work, you can be a

19 supervisor with some of the kids.

20 We are also going to clean the, even

21 though it's not in South Scranton, we're going to do

22 the viaduct going up to West Side, because it really is

23 a mess. So, we're going to clean that as part of our

24 project.

25 I also wanted to know if the junior


1 council when they had their meeting could see if any of

2 the clubs in the schools are interested in adopting a

3 block, and they would be responsible for cleaning that

4 block at least twice a year, and possibly we can have

5 signs made. You know, this block or this area is

6 cleaned up by, for instance, the Scranton High Debate

7 Club. So, if you guys would please bring that up at

8 your meeting on Tuesday, I would appreciate it.

9 We had a meeting for a caucus scheduled

10 with Mr. Rinaldi from the 500 block of Lackawanna

11 Avenue, and he wasn't going to be available until after

12 Easter, so possibly the 20th or the 27th. Could you

13 schedule that, Mrs. Garvey?

14 And I believe that some of Council

15 wants it televised, so we will do that for that

16 particular caucus.

17 Also, Mrs. Evans and I were at a Tripp

18 Park meeting, was it Monday?

19 MS. EVANS: Yes.

20 MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Fanucci was also

21 supposed to come, but she had a family emergency and

22 couldn't make it. So, we had a meeting over there with

23 the KOZ people that live on Euclid Avenue, and as you

24 know, there's pending legislation to approve a new site

25 for the KOZ over in that particular area, and we've


1 been holding it up because the developer is not

2 following through on things in his agreement that he

3 had promised those people.

4 So, we're -- Council is holding that

5 up, and we want to hold a caucus with the developer and

6 with the neighbors from that area.

7 So, Kay, if you would schedule that the

8 opposite week of Rinaldi, and we also want that one

9 televised.

10 MS. EVANS: Yes. And I'd like to have

11 the --

12 MS. GATELLI: The stenographer --

13 MS. EVANS: -- our stenographer present

14 for that, as well.

15 MS. GATELLI: For that one? Okay.

16 Also, there will be, I don't know if we have to make a

17 motion, but the 13th of April is Holy Thursday, and I'd

18 like to make a motion that we cancel the meeting that

19 week, because it is Holy Thursday.

20 MS. EVANS: Second.

21 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All in

22 favor?

23 MS. EVANS: Aye.





2 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

3 have it and so ordered. So, April 13, there will not

4 be a meeting. There will be one on 6th, and the next

5 one will be the 20th, and it will be in City Hall

6 Chambers, the next meeting.

7 There was only one other comment that I

8 wanted to make this evening, to tell you about the City

9 Pride, they're going to do citywide cleanups, and that

10 is going to be between May 6 and the 13th.

11 And I'm sure that all the neighborhoods

12 will be involved. Wayne, I'll give you a copy of this

13 so you'll know. And they will be coming to speak to

14 Council on April 6.

15 I got a letter from Tom Bell, the

16 deputy administrator for the assessor's office, and

17 they are now going to notify City Council when they

18 have hearings to lower people's assessments.

19 The students at West Scranton High

20 School were honored this week in the paper for

21 wrestling, and I'd just like to recognize them. One is

22 Chris Kabrynick, Matt Sheerin, and Adam Bisignani. I

23 don't think there's any from Scranton High, Mr.

24 McTiernan. All the wrestlers are at West.

25 The only thing I'd like to say about


1 the zoning agenda, which we talked about in the

2 beginning, was that I noticed on the agenda that out of

3 eight items, seven of them were looking to add

4 additional apartments.

5 Being a neighborhood activist, we know

6 that apartment conversions have a lot to do with

7 blighted conditions, because the apartments become

8 overcrowded.

9 So, I'd like to make a motion that

10 Council send a letter to the zoning board, and I don't

11 know if this is legal, so we'll have to ask our

12 attorney, but I'd like to put a moratorium on

13 additional apartments for at least a year until we get

14 our bearings and see where we're going with

15 development, et cetera. So, I'll make a motion that we

16 send that letter to the zoning board.


18 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All in

19 favor.

20 MS. EVANS: Aye.




24 MS. GATELLI: Aye.

25 MS. FANUCCI: Is it legal?


1 MR. MINORA: Yeah. You asked the

2 question, but the answer to the question is it's legal

3 to send a letter. It's not binding obviously, and the

4 zoning board can either take your advice in the letter

5 or not, but you certainly have the right to send a

6 letter and request it.

7 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Thank you,

8 Attorney Minora. I think we had a motion and a second.

9 Any more questions? All in favor.

10 MS. EVANS: Aye.




14 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

15 have it and so moved. Would any other Council member

16 like to speak at this time?

17 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I'm the same way

18 as you, Judy. I know it's a major problem we're having

19 with people developing our old homes and taking them

20 and cutting them up and chopping them up.

21 I would like to see us do something

22 maybe to convert back. We can maybe encourage people a

23 little bit with some type of program to -- when they're

24 converting their homes back.

25 So, I want to look into that and see if


1 we can figure out something for all of us. That's a

2 big project for all. You buy these old houses, you

3 love these old houses, but there's five apartments in

4 them, and it would be nice for big families to be able

5 to move in and have incentives. So, I definitely am

6 going to look into that, also.

7 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, that's a good idea.

8 Anyone else? Janet.

9 MS. EVANS: On an unrelated topic, the

10 Green Ridge Neighborhood Association will hold a pasta

11 dinner this Saturday, April 1 from 4 to 7 p.m. Tickets

12 are $7, and it will be conducted at the Church of the

13 Good Shepard on North Washington Avenue and Electric

14 Street.

15 And just to return to a comment

16 Mrs. Gatelli made a few moments ago, April 22, 23 and

17 24 -- oh, no, excuse me, the 21, 22 and 23 are

18 designated National and Global Youth Service Days, and

19 in conjunction with what you had mentioned, I'd like to

20 see the Junior Council members organize a service

21 activity either as a body or through each of your

22 respective high schools, and then I believe City

23 Council should present you with a public proclamation

24 recognizing your work which acknowledges those

25 designated service days by the youth of America.


1 MR. BUTLER: Ms. Evans, just to let you

2 know, we already discussed and we are going to bring a

3 motion later on in the meeting.

4 MS. EVANS: Each school separately?

5 MR. BUTLER: Just the Junior Council.

6 Katrina brought it up before the meeting.

7 MS. EVANS: Very good. And it might be

8 something, as well as, though, that you could expand

9 particularly at your meeting on Tuesday at Scranton

10 High School to get more volunteers active in this.

11 MR. BUTLER: Yep.

12 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Anyone else

13 from Council? If not, I'd like you to meet, which many

14 of you haven't, I'd like you to meet our Junior City

15 Council members, and I'd like each one of them to stand

16 up and say your name and what school you're from.

17 Doug Miller, West Scranton High School,

18 Kevin Jones, Scranton High School, Jerome Singleton,

19 West Scranton, Ian Miller, Bishop Hannon, I'm Katrina

20 Organ from Bishop Hannon, James Piazza from Scranton

21 High School, Matt Butler, Scranton High School.

22 MS. GATELLI: Would any of the Junior

23 Council members like to address Council?

24 MR. MILLER: Good evening, Council.

25 Doug Miller, Scranton. I would again like to remind


1 Council that this coming Tuesday will be the first

2 Scranton Junior City Council meeting held at Scranton

3 High School at 1:30 p.m. We will have the opportunity

4 to meet and discuss various issues with the students.

5 I really like this idea of having these

6 neighborhood meetings. It shows that this Council

7 wants to reach out to the residents of this city and

8 meet with them in their own neighborhoods.

9 Starting with South Side was very

10 important due to the amount of needs and concerns there

11 are here.

12 As we go through South Side, we see

13 that a lot of areas are run down with vacant buildings

14 and homes. I know that this is an area that can be

15 brought back to life and will.

16 I would like to see small businesses

17 come to South Side. The renovations at Connell Park

18 will really help boost this area and bring more people

19 to South Side.

20 We heard earlier from Mayor Doherty on

21 all the wonderful projects that will take place in

22 South Side. This shows that we are moving forward and

23 we will restore South Side. Thank you.

24 ` And at this time I would ask any other

25 Junior Council members if they would like to address


1 Council, please do so at this time. Thank you.

2 MS. ORGAN: Hello. My name is Katrina

3 Organ. The Scranton Junior City Council would like to

4 announce our first community project.

5 After last week's meeting, we discussed

6 Mr. Dudek's suggestion of beautifying the islands in

7 Green Ridge. We decided to throw a planting party.

8 This planting party will take place from eleven to six

9 on the first Saturday in May. It will be open to the

10 entire public.

11 After we plant one flower bed in each

12 of the islands, pizza, soda and chips will be provided.

13 We would like to invite residents of the Green Ridge

14 area, as well as the rest of the city.

15 Furthermore, at this time we would like

16 to ask the City Council to make a motion to finalize

17 our project. Thank you.

18 MS. GATELLI: I'll make a motion to

19 approve your project and to supply any funds that would

20 you need to purchase whatever you need.


22 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All in

23 favor.

24 MS. EVANS: Aye.





3 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

4 have it and so moved. Please work with Mrs. Garvey and

5 we'll arrange for whatever you need. Thank you very

6 much. The first speaker is Wayne Evans.

7 MR. EVANS: Good evening, Council.

8 First of all, I'd like to welcome City Council to the

9 Renaissance Center, but most of all, welcome to

10 South Side, and, Judy, welcome home.

11 The Mayor was here earlier, and I think

12 the people who were here earlier, I'm not sure if

13 everybody was, should be very encouraged.

14 This is a project that we've been

15 working on for more than four years. This is nothing

16 new. This didn't happen last week or last year. It

17 has been on an ongoing process for quite a long time.

18 This organization wrote a grant. When

19 the Mayor talked about Wallace, Roberts and Todd, we

20 wrote the grant to get Wallace, Roberts and Todd hired,

21 and that was basically the beginning of the plan. It's

22 come to life. Today was our kickoff, and it's starting

23 to happen.

24 As Mayor Doherty knows, our number one

25 priority in South Side will be homeownership.


1 As Mrs. Gatelli talked before,

2 apartment conversions are something that when I was on

3 the planning commission with Mrs. Fanucci, that we

4 fought very hard against, and it's something we as a

5 neighborhood organization are dead set against.

6 So, we're going to fight with a

7 multi-prong approach by going after absentee landlords,

8 but what we want to do is reverse the numbers the Mayor

9 talked about earlier tonight.

10 Sixty-five percent of the people that

11 live in this area, this targeted area, are renters. We

12 want 65 percent of those people to be homeowners. When

13 that happens, we will have a healthy viable

14 neighborhood.

15 We have a commitment with the

16 administration, and I'm sure we have a commitment with

17 City Council, because I've talked to all of them

18 individually. It's a project that we all need to get

19 behind.

20 One thing we've learned tonight, and we

21 already knew it, when you look around the room, South

22 Side cares. I can't say more than any other

23 neighborhood, but I feel it's true.

24 Every time we've asked for help, every

25 time we've had an initiative, people have come out to


1 protect and save their neighborhood. That's why you're

2 here again tonight to show that South Side above all

3 cares about what happens in South Side.

4 So, thank you, City Council, for coming

5 tonight. Thank you everyone here in attendance for

6 coming tonight. And just watch, because we are the

7 renaissance neighborhood. Thank you.

8 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Sylvia

9 Shelski.

10 MS. SHELSKI: My name is Sylvia

11 Shelski, I'm a homeowner. My home is within walking

12 distance of a shopping center, food stores, drug

13 stores, Central City, the mall, movie theaters and the

14 church I attend. I can walk to.

15 I have a ten-minute drive from Nay Aug

16 Park swimming, Montage Ski Area, Ice Skating, the

17 Arena, baseball stadium and Cinemark movies, but my

18 home is located directly across from a dumping site.

19 It's a mountain of dirt and a mess that has been going

20 on for years, 20, 25 years.

21 I'm wondering why. I'd like to know

22 who owns it. I see no visible permits. Who owns it to

23 give permission to change the landscape, break it up

24 and cover sidewalks and curbs and then cover up a

25 portion that was Schimpff Court. Is that legal? It


1 has been a problem for 20 years or more.

2 At one time, homes and businesses were

3 there until the flood control project tore down all the

4 homes and it was empty land, then it was sold to Joseph

5 Scott, who built a cinder block building supposedly to

6 start a car repair business, which never happened.

7 Mrs. Gatelli, you're probably familiar

8 with what I'm talking about, because I used to go to

9 the South Side neighborhood meetings as a participating

10 member, and I've voiced my complaints about many

11 problems with this property.

12 It was closed down, a group called

13 Serenity Street, that was an alcoholic-related facility

14 that was noisy and caused many incidents where police

15 were called, then it was a dance hall, same problems.

16 The upper end on Cedar Avenue was used

17 for junk cars, then when that big sink hole opened up

18 on Pittston Avenue in September of 2004, the lot held

19 equipment and materials to repair the road on

20 Pittston Avenue for months. Some equipment is still

21 there. This work was done by Linde Construction the

22 beginning of 2003.

23 In January, sludge was dumped for

24 cleaning the river bed, oily, smelly, junk-filled

25 sludge.


1 I wrote to the Mayor and The Scranton

2 Times immediately and it was stopped. I gave letters

3 and pictures. Take them letters and pictures up so you

4 can show them so they will know what I am talking

5 about.

6 There's a letter sent to me from

7 Michael Wallace about this dumping area. I'm just

8 going to read one little portion of it, because you

9 have the letters there and all of those pictures will

10 show what we're talking about.

11 The letters says, You are hereby

12 ordered to immediately stop all work at this site.

13 This is the sludge and everything else.

14 You're also to submit to this office

15 final plans, including but not limited to, finish

16 grading, storm water management and controlled plans,

17 bank stabilization and environmental testing results of

18 the sludge that was deposited on the property. These

19 plans must be stamped by a registered engineer.

20 Nothing was ever done, nothing. So, I think I've been

21 pretty patient. This is two years ago.

22 When I wrote to the Mayor and Michael

23 Wallace, I sent a letter back, copies of that letter,

24 and I had no response. The dumping continues

25 periodically. Now, how much bigger this mountain can


1 be. It's dirty, it's directly across the street from

2 my home.

3 Every truck brings down my property

4 value. Can anybody give me any information as to who

5 owns it now? Is it still Joe Scott's property? Who is

6 allowing the dumping? What company is coming there and

7 doing this? Junk cars are coming back again on top of

8 the hill. It's right on Route 11 as you drive by Cedar

9 Avenue.

10 MS. GATELLI: I'm not sure if he still

11 owns it or not, but I'll find out for you and I'll get

12 back to you.

13 MS. SHELSKI: And there's also when I

14 first sent the letter, there was a big sign, Restoring

15 City Pride. When I told the Mayor that, the next day

16 the sign was removed, but nothing else.

17 MS. GATELLI: I would have removed it,

18 too, from that site.

19 MR. SHELSKI: We'd just like you to

20 take a look at it.

21 MS. GATELLI: Yes, we will.

22 MR. SHELSKI: I can meet anybody down

23 there at any time. I work night shift. Any time of

24 day, I can talk to anyone and show them the problems.

25 MS. GATELLI: And Sylvia, come back to


1 the neighborhood association, we need you.

2 MS. SHELSKI: I am. I am coming back.

3 MS. GATELLI: I'll get back to you, Mr.

4 Shelski.

5 MR. SHELSKI: That's all. We want to

6 find out what's going on.

7 MS. GATELLI: Okay.

8 MR. SHELSKI: I like to see a plan. I

9 mean, there's supposed to be a plan for the last

10 20 years, as well.

11 MS. SHELSKI: Well, also, before any

12 more dumping continues, now spring is coming, and

13 Joe Scott came down every now and then, he takes his

14 bulldozer and he just bulldozes everything, trees,

15 sidewalks. There's no curbs. There's no sidewalks.

16 Nothing is visible any more. It's nothing but a

17 dumping site.

18 MS. GATELLI: Can I keep these?

19 MS. SHELSKI: Yeah. And I am always

20 over there picking up liter there.

21 MS. GATELLI: Mike Dudek.

22 MR. DUDEK: My name is Mike Dudek, 608

23 Depot Street, Scranton, PA. I live in the Plot Section

24 very close to the islands.

25 And I'd like to thank the Student


1 Council for accepting my idea as far as beautifying the

2 islands. Now, in return, I will clear my schedule for

3 that entire Saturday, and I will be there with these

4 young people from the time the first hole is dug until

5 the time the last seed is planted. That way, at least

6 we will guarantee at least one adult will be here with

7 these young people while they are serving the course of

8 their duties with the city. I'd be more than happy to

9 work with them.

10 Okay. Second of all, there has been

11 things mentioned about apartments here in the city.

12 One of the things that caught my ear, oh, about two

13 months ago was our newest member of City Council,

14 Ms. Fanucci, had requested that she get a copy of the

15 Allentown city budget, and the reason why that rang a

16 bell with me here is because Allentown and Bethlehem

17 have very comprehensive legislation on apartments.

18 Whenever an apartment is vacated in

19 either city, the apartment may not be relet, it may not

20 be rented out until it is inspected by the city. Only

21 after it passes the city inspection may that apartment

22 be rented out.

23 I believe the fee is $25 for the

24 inspection or whatever, but that's not the point. The

25 point is that oftentimes the professional city


1 inspector will pick up on things that simply get

2 missed.

3 And when you look at some pretty old

4 apartments in a city like Scranton with such an

5 extraordinary old housing stock, like what we have

6 here, I think we probably will have a few 100

7 apartments that will have a few thousand violations

8 that will have to be addressed before they ever get

9 re-rented again.

10 So, I think we should start looking in

11 this direction. I think we should be more

12 comprehensive in the way we approach this whole

13 situation about apartments, whether somebody wants to

14 add an apartment or remove an apartment.

15 I think it should be comprehensive to

16 the point where every time an apartment is rented in

17 the city, that that apartment is inspected by the city.

18 And, again, thank you for getting that

19 Allentown budget. That will be a big help to the rest

20 of your members.

21 And the third thing, I just want to

22 just simple address, I guess, it would be the elephant

23 in the room, the arbitration award that the Fraternal

24 Order of Police told us was going to come, and it has

25 come.


1 Again, we have to somehow get it across

2 to the administration that the Arbitration Act of 1948

3 isn't going away.

4 When I was a teacher at Mid-Valley and

5 I was a member of the association, and president of the

6 association, I was trained under the Arbitration Act of

7 1948 at the University of Pennsylvania.

8 And the professor who trained me in was

9 Robert Wreick. Robert Wreick had been the Secretary of

10 Labor in the Carter Administration, the Harvard

11 Professor, that man.

12 If anybody knew what was going to

13 happen with this arbitration, I knew. And it's not

14 going to get any better.

15 It would be as bad as if Mayor Doherty

16 took $50,000 to $100,000 of taxpayer money down to the

17 city of Harrisburg and simply started giving it away to

18 the people on the street. It would be the same result.

19 We have to regard these arbitrations as

20 part of the law. A city recovery plan is not

21 legislation. The city recovery plan is only that, a

22 plan. It is not the law.

23 So, please, try to approach the

24 administration and try to explain to them that this law

25 is for real. Thank you.


1 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Before I call

2 the next speaker, I was remiss in not introducing our

3 community development officer, Lee Palmier. He's ini

4 the back of the room. He does a wonderful job. Let's

5 give him a round of applause. The next speaker is Bill

6 Jackowitz.

7 MR. JACKOWITZ: Good evening, City

8 Council. Bill Jackowitz, South side resident,

9 taxpayer, independent registered voter, retired

10 United States Air Force.

11 I would like to start off this evening

12 by commending City Council on their handling of the two

13 recent community development hearings, the Green Ridge

14 and Minooka projects. I believe that I've witnessed

15 five elected officials working together, asking

16 questions and making proper decisions. Good job, City

17 Council, keep it up.

18 I would also like to state again, time

19 should not be a relevant issue. Allow a speaker to

20 speak and ask questions. If they go over their time

21 limit while making valid points, so be it. That is why

22 these are public meetings. Again, if the speaker is

23 attacking someone's character or family, by all means,

24 stop them.

25 Okay. On Sunday, 26 March '06, I went


1 on a journey, I went on a mission, which cost me a few

2 dollars in gas money.

3 I drove around the entire City of

4 Scranton, neighborhoods and sections that I have never

5 been in or sections that I had not been in in over

6 30 years or more.

7 My main goal was to locate -- my

8 mission was to locate 500 blocks of streets that have

9 been paved.

10 I drove through allies, courts, side

11 streets, main streets. I was amazed at what I seen.

12 Do you know that Scranton still has cobblestone streets

13 or brick roads, that in my belief have never been

14 repaired?

15 There are so many abandoned homes,

16 businesses and properties that are worse than eyesores,

17 garbage, appliances and old furniture throughout the

18 entire city.

19 The allies in the Hill Section, South

20 Side, North Scranton, East Scranton, everywhere, I was

21 amazed. Sections of Central City were no better.

22 Now that I took the time to see it

23 myself, I have a better understanding of some citizens'

24 complaints and concerns.

25 Most of the catch basins, sewers, I


1 cannot see how they would catch anything. The city of

2 Scranton has been allowed to deteriorate.

3 The current administration, City

4 Council and all governing bodies have their work cut

5 out for them. I hope that they are up to the task and

6 capable.

7 Also in Sunday's paper, the Scranton

8 citizens asked about the status of the down payment for

9 the South Side Complex. Mr. McTiernan, as finance

10 chairman, would you address that subject, if you have

11 the information available?

12 MR. MCTIERNAN: I don't have it, but I

13 will find out for you.

14 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay. I'd appreciate

15 that. Mrs. Evans, today is the last Thursday in March.

16 What do we know about Hollow Avenue? I thought it was

17 going to be resolved by the end of March?

18 MS. EVANS: What we know about Hollow

19 Avenue is this, that we are at a standstill at this

20 point. Mr. Parker would meet with one representative

21 of the neighborhood and myself, and the neighbors of

22 that area are dissatisfied with that offer.

23 They feel very adamantly that all

24 neighbors should be present that the meeting; hence,

25 they have declined that invitation, and Mr. Parker


1 stands on that invitation and neither side at this

2 point is budging.

3 MR. JACKOWITZ: Mrs. Gatelli, as

4 Council president, you're familiar with the Hollow

5 Avenue project?

6 MS. GATELLI: No, I'm not, but my

7 suggestion would be that we have a caucus.

8 MS. EVANS: Well, that's what I was

9 going to request tonight, that we could have Mr. Parker

10 into City Council --

11 MS. GATELLI: Maybe he'd be more

12 comfortable in a more formal setting. So, tell Kay.

13 MS. EVANS: Uh-huh. Well, that was

14 originally, though, what we had asked for, and

15 Mr. Parker's response was that he would meet in his

16 office with the two of us, but perhaps if we send

17 another letter indicating that all of Council would

18 like him to attend a caucus, because I'm sure there are

19 other issues as well that we would like to question him

20 about.

21 MS. GATELLI: That's fine. I'll make a

22 motion that Council sends a letter to Mr. Parker to

23 attend a caucus on this issue.

24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.

25 MS. GATELLI: On the question?


1 All in favor?

2 MS. EVANS: Aye.




6 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

7 have it and so moved.

8 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay. Thank you very

9 much.

10 MS. EVANS: Mr. Jackowitz, I just want

11 to maybe respond to the question posed to

12 Mr. McTiernan. If you recall, that deposit, security

13 deposit, if you will, on the South Side Complex, I

14 believe, was paid to Mr. Kalinosky for landscaping that

15 had occurred up at Nay Aug Park, and I don't believe

16 that that paid the invoice in full, but that money was

17 spent almost immediately without the knowledge or

18 consent of Council.

19 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay. But I'll still

20 wait for Mr. McTiernan's. I appreciate your answer and

21 your answer, but Mr. McTiernan is finance chair, so

22 let's get the official scoop from him. Thank you.

23 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

24 MS. EVANS: Thank you.

25 MS. GATELLI: Lee Morgan.


1 MR. MORGAN: Good evening, Council.

2 The first I have is we keep debating the South Side

3 Sports Complex, and really the debate should be over.

4 The money to pay the $700,000 back to

5 the University of Scranton can come from the fund of

6 the $2 million that the golf course was sold for.

7 So, I think it would be a prudent move

8 to move The $700,000 from that fund and give it to the

9 University of Scranton, and we should stop playing all

10 the games we're playing here, because, you know,

11 there's a lot of politics spinning here.

12 We're talking about renters possibly

13 being the problem in South Side, and then we've got 5-B

14 on the agenda and we're talking about homeownership.

15 Now, this should be stripped from the

16 agenda, because the money coming here is from home

17 buyers assistance programs and programs that are

18 necessary to help people buy homes.

19 So, what we're doing is we're talking

20 about let's make people homeowners, and then the money

21 we're going to use to fund the corridor here is going

22 to come from the same programs we're talking about

23 using to empower people with.

24 I mean, we all weren't born under a

25 rock, okay? And the real problem with this city is


1 it's been mismanaged, okay? And somebody has to come

2 up with the answers, and politics has to stop spinning.

3 Photo-ops look good, getting up

4 grandstanding makes good, but you know something,

5 everything has to be based in some amount of reality,

6 and I don't see it.

7 I also think this, that all the

8 problems this city has are not going to be solved by

9 this Mayor.

10 As you can see from the arbitration

11 awards, we keep losing and losing and losing, and we're

12 losing revenue on top of revenue on top of revenue on

13 top of revenue, and we're only kidding ourselves,

14 because this city is not coming back. Renters are not

15 the problem in South Side, okay?

16 The problem in South Side and the

17 problem in this whole city is that the revenue in this

18 city is being misspent, and it comes to this Council to

19 stop that from happening.

20 Now, I personally believe this, that we

21 need to start funding our future. We need a playground

22 program. What will that solve? Well, you know, I

23 brought it to Council last week. Nobody is talking

24 about the heroin and the crack problem in this city as

25 if it just doesn't exist.


1 We're all talking about absentee

2 landlords. Well, these landlord are investors.

3 They've come here and invested and bought property here

4 because evidently they don't understand the city.

5 They come from New York where a

6 property is very expensive, they come here and they

7 think they've bought a deal, and then they try to rent

8 it, two or three years later looking to unload it and

9 get out of here.

10 The other thing is this, in regards to

11 Channel 61, there's no way that 61 should be removed

12 from the library. It should stay there. The county

13 should fund it through the library. OECD funds should

14 come through the library for Channel 61. We shouldn't

15 allow it to become a non-profit and stand on its own,

16 because then the residents and taxpayers will have no

17 control over it.

18 We need Council to get a copy of their

19 charter and present it at Council so we can know

20 everything that's happened to make Channel 61 happen,

21 okay?

22 We've got to stop losing our assets.

23 Channel 61 is a very, very, very valuable tool for the

24 taxpayers and residents, not only in Scranton, but of

25 Lackawanna County. It tells us what's going on in


1 government.

2 And before we allow that to be moved --

3 to become a non-profit organization where we lose any

4 say over it, we should be very, very careful.

5 Politicians don't like that channel. They don't like

6 people to know what's going on.

7 And my last thing is this, I'd like to

8 hear from this Council that we are going to do

9 something in regards to a playground program.

10 And I would also appreciate if Council

11 in Council chambers could have a meeting and discuss

12 the drug problem in this city and a Mayor that would

13 lead to changes of direction. Thank you.

14 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Morgan, I just want

15 to tell you that I agree with you about the playground

16 program, and I told you that before I even thought

17 about running for Council.

18 MR. MORGAN: Absolutely.

19 MS. GATELLI: Many of the people here

20 remember when we used to go to Connell Park and we used

21 to spend the whole day there and there was -- they used

22 to use the teachers at the time, because they were home

23 in the summer, and they would hire them, and they would

24 have activities all day for the children.

25 So, yes, I am in favor of that program.


1 I don't know if we can do it for this summer, but I

2 would make a motion that we do whatever we can to at

3 least start a pilot program at maybe one facility with

4 one or two leaders running the program for this summer

5 coming, maybe just a four-week program, and then see

6 how we make out and then maybe we can fund it next year

7 with the block grant money.

8 But I do think that there are some

9 excess UDAG funds that are available to Council members

10 for specific projects, and I would like that as my

11 project.

12 MR. MORGAN: I'd just like to say, if I

13 could, that, you know, I really appreciate that, I

14 really appreciate all the people on Council, if they

15 can make that happen, because the children in this

16 community deserve it.

17 MS. GATELLI: Well, I make a motion

18 that we contact the Mayor, and I think we would have to

19 contact Scopelliti, and work together to try to get a

20 program for this summer just in one place, probably

21 Weston Field, because it's very accessible there.

22 MR. MCTIERNAN: Second.

23 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All in

24 favor?

25 MS. EVANS: Aye.





4 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

5 have it and so moved. Mr. Morgan, we will be calling

6 on you to volunteer to help us get this program off the

7 road.

8 MR. MORGAN: I'm not hard to find.

9 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Andy

10 Sbaraglia.

11 MS. EVANS: Mrs. Gatelli, just as an

12 afterthought, I think that, and this is certainly no

13 reflection on Mr. Morgan, but anyone involved in that

14 type of endeavor would have to undergo a criminal

15 background check --

16 MS. GATELLI: Yes.

17 MS. EVANS: -- particularly since

18 they're dealing with young children, so there's quite a

19 bit more to this than perhaps the public perceives in

20 terms of that and salaries to pay workers, et cetera.

21 MS. GATELLI: Right. If we use school

22 district personnel, they're already cleared -- they

23 already have their clearance.

24 MS. EVANS: Correct.

25 MS. GATELLI: So, that would be my idea


1 to possibly use them as leaders.

2 MS. EVANS: And who will pay them?

3 MS. GATELLI: The UDAG funds, because

4 there are some excess there that we can use for pet

5 projects. We can try it. Mr. Sbaraglia.

6 MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia, citizen

7 of Scranton. Fellow Scrantonians, I'm glad to be back

8 in South Side. I never told you, but I did live in

9 South Side. I went to South Scranton when they used to

10 have the nice little soda fountain about a block up the

11 street, and I played at Connell Park, and I used to go

12 to the free movies at Connell Park, if you remember.

13 Well, maybe you don't.

14 MS. GATELLI: Maybe we played together

15 when we were little.

16 MR. SBARAGLIA: I don't think so, but,

17 yes.

18 MS. GATELLI: It was wonderful, wasn't

19 it? Connell Park was wonderful.

20 MR. SBARAGLIA: At that time it was.

21 At that time it was, because if you remember way back,

22 I don't think you could, but if you did, you would know

23 cars were 50 bucks. You could buy a used car for 50

24 bucks, gasoline was $0.19 a gallon, and as a child

25 growing up during the fifties like I did, it was


1 heaven. I don't think we'll ever see it again, but I

2 did enjoy my stay in South Side.

3 Judy, I've been reading a lot in the

4 paper about the finances of the city, and we seem to be

5 slipping more and more into the hole.

6 Now, I realize that they're complaining

7 that the policemen is getting anything, but I think

8 this is all in the same thing they gave the DPW workers

9 or close to it, isn't it? Did you remember what they

10 gave the DPW? They gave them some bonuses and they

11 also gave them some raises. So, actually --

12 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, it was similar. IT

13 was similar.

14 MR. SBARAGLIA: Actually this

15 arbitrator gave the police probably the same thing that

16 the city gave the DPW workers, so I don't understand

17 why all of a sudden now we're making a big stink about

18 it, that all of a sudden because we did give raises to

19 the DPW workers. Why are they saying we shouldn't be

20 giving raises to the police?

21 Now, as you know, when it comes to the

22 dollar, my Jewish heritage comes in. Somewhere along

23 the line I must have some in there, because when it

24 comes to a dollar, I don't like to part with it.

25 But I do believe in fairness, I always


1 did, and I do believe that if you give to one union,

2 you should give to the other union.

3 Now, the paper said, like, nine

4 positions, even though they may be just titles, they

5 made an effort to, you know, correspond to our -- to

6 your recovery plan, which, as you know now, it's so

7 outdated that it's no longer a recovery plan, and it

8 has gone so long down the line that we can never, never

9 -- even if we could institute it, we can't get out of

10 the hole.

11 Now we got another raise coming up, the

12 firemen, which is probable the same, but we also got a

13 lot of other bills that he has been appealing. Does

14 anybody have an idea of how many contracts the Mayor

15 has appealed?

16 I know he has something to do with some

17 kind of clerks for the police and something, but I

18 don't know of all of them. It would be nice to find

19 out how many of these contracts he's appealing and how

20 much, if we lose them all, how does it affect

21 taxpayers, because that's important now.

22 I mean, first of all, we said we're

23 going to be, like, $6 million short at the end of the

24 year. Now we may be about $16 million short at the end

25 of the year, and we got to do something.


1 And if we can plug it, plug it as much

2 as we can. I'm afraid we're going to get a huge tax

3 increase. I don't see how we can avoid it, even though

4 we may go out and plea poverty to all the tax exempts,

5 but they may not come through with a penny.

6 So, I wish at least you try to get a

7 true picture of the city finances at this early stage

8 of the game, so for the next nine months, even though

9 we may be on Poverty Street, we can do that. We can

10 just do without anything and hold everything up until

11 we bring our finances in line with our revenue. I

12 thank you.

13 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Is there

14 anyone else that would like to speak before Council?

15 Charlie Spano.

16 MR. SPANO: Yes. Council, it seems

17 like tonight is the night for new beginnings, a new

18 beginning for South Side, for Connell Park, and I'm

19 here specifically to talk about a new beginning for

20 election machines.

21 I work in the voter education office,

22 Kathy Hardaway is my supervisor, and beginning tomorrow

23 night, and as this is taped, it will be March 31 at

24 Weston Field, it will be the first of a series of

25 public demonstrations of the new touch screen voting


1 machines.

2 I wanted to be here tonight, in

3 particular, because you're here in South Side, and

4 we're on the board of the Renaissance Center, and it's

5 a beautiful building and a great opportunity, also,

6 because two of the young men over there on the Student

7 Council were asked through our office to help with

8 organizing some students to help us this coming

9 weekend.

10 We will be at the Steamtown Mall second

11 floor food court for Saturday and Sunday demonstrating

12 the machines, and Mr. Miller and Mr. Singleton over

13 there received a message from our office and took the

14 ball and they rounded up a group of students, and I

15 want to applaud them for that. We're looking forward

16 to meeting them all on Saturday.

17 The other reason is that, as I said,

18 we're going to be here, we're here now, we will be here

19 again Tuesday night at the Renaissance Center for a

20 public demonstration of the voting machines.

21 We also have more public outreach

22 scattered around the county. Kathy Hardaway taped a

23 program today on Channel 61, which we will be airing,

24 along with the sales representative from the company,

25 so I would encourage everyone to keep an eye out for


1 that little short program that demonstrates how the

2 voting machines are to be used, and I would ask

3 everyone who's interested, and we hope everybody is,

4 all of you are here tonight because you care about the

5 city, you care about how it operates, and voting is an

6 absolutely critical component of caring about that.

7 So, come to the demonstration. There

8 was a list in the newspaper today, I believe it was,

9 and there will be more scheduled.

10 If you have any questions or you want

11 information or would like a demonstration at your club,

12 group or organization, call 963 -6737 and ask, and we

13 will make every effort to come out and put on a

14 demonstration of the machines for you. Thank you very

15 much.

16 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

17 MS. HUMPHREY: Hi, everybody.

18 Everybody knows me. My name is Phyllis Humphrey. I

19 want to congratulate the children of City Council.

20 A lot of people have called and stopped

21 me and they wanted to know why I wasn't here, and I

22 told them, Oh, I'm being patient and praying.

23 I told you about my mission and taking

24 religious articles, and I want to show you something

25 that's very blessed to the City of Scranton. And here


1 it is.

2 It's Our Lady of Czestochowa. She's

3 going to represent the City of Scranton for the Mother

4 of God coming here, and I'm going to be going, God

5 willing, to the United Nations to seek for peace

6 because of my name.

7 It's very hard. You're not to step

8 back. You got to move forward. And this is what I

9 want to do.

10 The children, King's College is going

11 to have a gathering -- they'll have to call Father

12 Sahaad, and see about that.

13 And this is our lady, and it's very

14 special, and there's jewels on it, but behind the

15 jewels there's pictures. It's a gift that some people

16 would see that we are the jewels of the church. We are

17 the jewels of Scranton, and we are to be the jewels to

18 all nations.

19 We have the good, the bad, and the

20 ugly, and we just got to return and be good people and

21 teach love, because love is the answer to peace.

22 And this is what I want to show -- and

23 for Father Payton for his canonization, Pope Pius the

24 Twelfth and John Paul One, and the mathematical

25 numbers, I want to speak to the children, that the


1 Virgin Mother gave me.

2 What it was was numbers that were

3 dated, written letters for Pope Pius the Twelfth that

4 he -- that family members interceded in World War II,

5 and these numbers that was given to me was the files

6 for Pope Pius the Twelfth.

7 So, pray for the canonization. And I

8 send my love to my bishops and my priests and my

9 cardinals and my Holy Father and all the children of

10 the City of Scranton that has been praying for me. God

11 Bless you, and thank you so much.

12 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Thank you.

13 MS. HUMPHREY: May peace come to this

14 world in reconciliation. Take care.

15 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else care to speak

16 before Council?

17 MR. OSBORNE: My name is Terry Osborne,

18 I am a former South Side resident. I now live in

19 Minooka, and actually after Judy, former South Scranton

20 resident and President. So, welcome, City Council, to

21 South Side.

22 I come tonight, as I have in the past,

23 as a representative, fire representative to the

24 Composite Pension Board of the City of Scranton.

25 And first off, I want to thank Judy. A


1 couple of weeks ago, I also appeared at Council asking

2 for a letter to be sent to the city administration.

3 As Amil described earlier, it would be

4 a non-binding, just a very simple letter, but was not

5 able to get the majority of Council to agree.

6 After some further discussions, Judy as

7 the President of Council trying to set an agenda did

8 request that something be sent down to this City

9 Council.

10 The recommendation of the Composite

11 Pension Board, as you all know, is the hiring of Mellon

12 Bank as the trustee for the pension fund.

13 I had met that very afternoon with Gene

14 Hickey and Mike Savitsky trying to resolve this matter,

15 and I guess as late as Monday of this week, Judy and I

16 met with some members of the administration.

17 But at this point, there doesn't seem

18 to be a resolution. It is most unfortunate. As I've

19 stated here at several meetings, for the first time in

20 my 21 years of serving on the pension board, ugly

21 politics has now come into the pension board in hiring

22 of the trustee of the city's pension funds.

23 In fact, last Wednesday, the composite

24 board voted unanimously after a meeting of our attorney

25 Mike Savitsky, and we met with Amil Minora several


1 weeks ago, we have voted unanimously to have Mike

2 Savitsky to check into going to Lackawanna County court

3 to try to enter a mandamus action to try to get this

4 sent down to City Council.

5 That is most unfortunate. The city

6 taxpayers will be paying our legal bills, the pension

7 boards, to sue the city administration, which will also

8 be funded by city tax dollars, and in the meantime, the

9 pension fund is held hostage by the politics that is

10 now entered into the pension fund.

11 We exercise a fiduciary responsibility

12 of picking the best offer to the pension board. There

13 are those in city government who want to reward people

14 who made contributions in the last campaign.

15 We can't do it. We won't do it. It

16 happened five years ago, and I know everybody has heard

17 about the disaster situation that has gone on for the

18 last five years.

19 Again, it is absolutely insane that we

20 have to go to court to move forward with the investing

21 of the pension funds.

22 There has already been one arbitration

23 decision held against the administration, which is

24 under appeal, and we will be in court in the end of

25 April to hopefully bring resolution to that.


1 As I said earlier, never before did we

2 deal with the politics like this. You guys will be

3 getting copies of the minutes of our last meeting, and

4 I hope you will pay particular attention at the end of

5 the meeting when Roseanne Novembrino spoke.

6 Roseanne spoke of her personal

7 resentment to what is going on with the pension fund in

8 the City of Scranton these days.

9 She has been the city controller for, I

10 think, approximately 20 years, and she also stated at

11 the meeting she has never seen it like this before.

12 The pension board has a feeling that

13 we're now second class citizens, that it's not our

14 money, that it's not our say that determines who

15 invests the money.

16 Again, I want to thank Judy for trying

17 to intercede. It was kind of surprising at the meeting

18 some were already telling us about what the vote would

19 be at City Council.

20 So, there are some kind of affiliations

21 with the administration that for one reason or another

22 already know how you people are going to vote, even

23 though no ordinance or resolution has come down.

24 So, I guess I would simple ask, those

25 of you who do speak with the Mayor, who do consult with


1 the Mayor, please relay the fact to him that you do

2 have an open mind to this, because there are those that

3 think that you do not. They seem to already be able to

4 tell Judy and I exactly what that vote total would be,

5 and I that was kind of a surprise to me.

6 As I said, the last five years has not

7 been good for the pension fund. You will also in a

8 minute be getting a copy of our state report, which is

9 due at the end of March, and the result of what has

10 gone on over the last five years is going to show, and

11 particularly look at the non-uniformed pension fund.

12 Five years ago the non-uniform pension

13 fund was funded at about a 91, 92 percent level, which

14 means out of all the money they needed, they had 91

15 percent of their money.

16 Based on people who have run for the

17 door under the Recovery Plan, based on the somewhat

18 doubling of the pension fund for those people, based on

19 the investments for the last five years, the

20 non-uniformed pension fund is now funded at about a

21 40 percent rate.

22 So, they went from 90 some percent

23 being funded to just about having all the money they

24 needed, to now having 40 some percent of the money they

25 need. It can't continue to go on, because the fund is


1 hurting the city's MMO, the money that the taxpayers

2 have to put in. It is increasing. It's increasing

3 every year.

4 And there really is a feeling of our

5 board that we have to get back to where we were, we

6 have to get the investments back to where they are or

7 where they used to be, and we really truly would like

8 to do it cooperatively with this City Council.

9 So, it's our hope that all these

10 agendas are going to be set aside. And, Judy, again,

11 thank you so much for spearheading this thing.

12 Hopefully we are going to move forward. Hopefully

13 you'll hear something from the Mayor and you will, in

14 fact, have an ordinance sent down with the pension

15 board's recommendation.

16 MR. MCTIERNAN: Mr. Osborne, could I

17 ask you a question or two?

18 MR. OSBORNE: Sure.

19 MR. MCTIERNAN: I just -- I'm curious.

20 I know there has been a lot of talk, and I've been

21 hearing conversations and presentations on both sides

22 --

23 MR. OSBORNE: Sure. I haven't heard

24 one for the other side.

25 MR. MCTIERNAN: Well, I mean the side


1 meaning other finance institutions, that's what I'm

2 talking about. I'm not talking about us versus the

3 Mayor or you versus the Mayor, I'm talking about the

4 financial interests in this situation.

5 I know that a large amount, or at least

6 you claim, that a large amount of the situation was

7 based on basis points and that there was a difference

8 in basis points between the proposals.


10 MR. MCTIERNAN: And I'm told by some of

11 the folks out there that, yes, there is a difference in

12 the upfront basis points, but there is a difference

13 when the overall performance over a given period of

14 time, and, again, I don't have all of those facts,

15 that's why I'm asking you that, that there's a

16 difference in performance over time that might make

17 this a more level playing field.

18 My fist question is, comparing real

19 numbers and basis points over the life, and then

20 comparing the financial institutions to manage the

21 fund, their performance over a similar time, does that

22 even out basis points, because, again, we're not at

23 those pension board meetings.

24 And I'm hearing -- and I -- to tell you

25 the truth, I don't want to use strong words, but I


1 resent you saying that there's a political agenda here.

2 What I do want to tell you is is that

3 I'm getting mixed messages, and some of the messages I

4 get, yours is one of them, and there are other messages

5 I'm getting, as well, and quite frankly, they're not

6 coming from the Mayor. They're coming from other

7 people who have interest.

8 So, I guess it's probably time that I

9 ask that question, that I would like to know that

10 difference. I've heard that, and I don't understand it

11 being a biology teacher.

12 MR. OSBORNE: Sure.

13 MR. MCTIERNAN: I don't understand it.

14 I had to ask what a basis point was a long time ago.

15 So, when someone tells me that when we

16 look at apples and we compare basis points, that's a

17 real simple way to look at it, but if we're looking

18 over time, that's my first thing.

19 Again, I'm not trying to be

20 belligerent, I need to understand that point before I

21 can cast a vote.

22 MR. OSBORNE: Absolutely. Now, if

23 you'll allow me to comment and to explain.

24 MR. MCTIERNAN: Please. Take your

25 time.


1 MR. OSBORNE: When we received the

2 proposals, and I think somewhere along the line I'll

3 get those back to you, we do have what the basis points

4 were.

5 And then, again, you can't predict

6 going forward obviously, but we do use what has been

7 done in the past.

8 And I will tell you years ago when we

9 first hired Mellon Bank, they were higher fees, but

10 they had such incredible returns. You could quickly

11 make up that fee with a good return.

12 So, you don't only look at basis

13 points, you look at what the basis points are. That's

14 the dollar -- our dollar to pay somebody. Then you

15 also look at what those returns, because you have to

16 use the past history.

17 MR. MCTIERNAN: Right.

18 MR. OSBORNE: When Mellon Bank was

19 here, they were in the top 11 percent nationally, which

20 is an absolute -- if you're in the top 25, you're

21 hitting a home run just about every time.

22 At our past meeting this past

23 Wednesday, one of our members brought back for the year

24 2005, Mellon, with the type of investments that we are

25 talking about, was in the eighth percentile, which


1 means seven percent of the people in the country did

2 better, 91 percent of the people did worse. So, Mellon

3 not only had the basis points, but they also have the

4 returns.

5 We as the pension board review the

6 basis points, review the returns. That's what's called

7 fiduciary responsibility. That's what all our members

8 did. We did the review and we voted seven to two

9 recommending after all that review was done.

10 And the reason I'm saying politics have

11 entered, is because other people are being sent down by

12 people who did not even conduct any type of review.

13 It's based on phone calls. We know that.

14 MR. MCTIERNAN: Right.

15 MR. OSBORNE: And here's the reasoning,

16 I'm sure we're good with this, and I'm not going to say

17 names and I'm not going to say companies.

18 We had 12 proposals that were submitted

19 to the City of Scranton when we did this review. The

20 minute it was opened up, I was sitting there. I knew

21 Mellon lowballed it.

22 Mellon lowballed it, because they used

23 to have a presence in the City of Scranton. They

24 actually left. You no longer see Mellon Bank. They

25 strictly do investing now. They call their banking now


1 Citizens. They were looking to get back into the City

2 of Scranton with a presence, so they lowballed the

3 fees.

4 One of their competitors, and it was

5 actually a person who submitted two different

6 proposals, one with his company and one with a borough

7 association, called me immediately and said, Just don't

8 look at their fees. Let's see where the returns are

9 and let's find out just where they're at.

10 And, in fact, he was going to call

11 Mellon Bank to get the returns, which was fine. I

12 called Mellon. I said, Look it. If he's calling, he's

13 not calling on our board's behalf. He's actually your

14 competitor, but he wants to find out with these

15 returns.

16 Again, remember, this is a guy who has

17 two proposals going after the same business. He called

18 me back several days later. He said, Terry, Mellon's

19 proposal isn't good. It's great. This is a no brainer

20 for your board. They won hands down. So, that was a

21 guy competing against them with his own investment

22 firm.

23 MR. MCTIERNAN: Let me ask you a

24 question. I understand that, and I've heard that from

25 someone who is actually, quite frankly, and I'm gong to


1 counter your position as politics, a relative of a

2 relative, and he's a principal in Mellon for me, so

3 your argument goes out the window at that end, because

4 quite frankly, you know, there's a lot of reasons to

5 vote a lot of ways.

6 My question is, Talking about from a

7 finance end, if you're lowballing on the front end

8 basis points, where do you make that money up? I mean

9 it costs X-number of dollars to manage.

10 So, when there's a lowball, and I'm

11 using your terms, and I know that I have a

12 responsibility to stockholders, shareholders and boards

13 of directors that I'm going to be delivering a return,

14 and I know I've lowballed to get business, it's not

15 unlike buying a car.

16 MR. OSBORNE: Right.

17 MR. MCTIERNAN: If I'm going to lowball

18 you to get you in the door, what happens on the back

19 end? And I'm not trying to smash Mellon, but you said

20 lowball, and that's makes me nervous.

21 MR. OSBORNE: As I said to you earlier,

22 maybe you missed what I was trying to say. They used

23 to have a presence --

24 MR. MCTIERNAN: I know that. They were

25 in Wilkes-Barre, and the gentleman that I'm


1 quasi-related to --

2 MR. OSBORNE: And when they had our

3 funds, they had several of the other funds around here.

4 And that's what they're looking to do. They're looking

5 to get back in here with some of their investor's

6 money.

7 I compare it to the same thing several

8 years ago when we were bidding out fire trucks, we had

9 a company by the name of Ferrara come in and lowball

10 our bid, and we literally bought four trucks off them

11 now.

12 The reason was they had no trucks in

13 Northeastern Pennsylvania and they wanted to get some

14 of their trucks up there.

15 We're to a degree our pension fund, and

16 for that matter, our fire department, was the dog in

17 the area, 150 men, eight stations, our pension fund was

18 one of the largest ones, also.

19 When you have the City of Scranton, you

20 can use it to go out and solicit other business.

21 MR. MCTIERNAN: Sure, it's a nice

22 client to have in your portfolio.

23 MR. OSBORNE: Right. And to a degree

24 that was --

25 MR. MCTIERNAN: Let me ask you a


1 question, then why not -- it makes me nervous. We know

2 we took a beating on the pension previously, and --

3 MR. OSBORNE: On the pension that our

4 board opposed 100 percent.

5 MR. MCTIERNAN: I understand that. I'm

6 not trying to cloud the issue. I know you are, but I'm

7 not.


9 MR. MCTIERNAN: I'm saying we agree

10 that there was a beating taken there. My fear is

11 lumping all of our shells in a single basket.

12 There has been talk of spreading the

13 risk around so that there are multiple handlers so that

14 if one company does not deliver the performance we

15 need. Simple question is, why not? Why not spread the

16 risk around?

17 MR. OSBORNE: And Judy sat through a

18 whole explanation there, and I'll offer it very quickly

19 here.


21 MR. OSBORNE: Mellon in their proposal,

22 we currently have about $72, $73 million. Mellon in

23 their proposal, because they were here before, and this

24 is something our board started looking at doing five

25 years ago, back when the city had $10 million and $15


1 million, nobody was interested. Now we actually do

2 have a pad on some of our money. We're still

3 underfunded, but we do have money.

4 So, we always held that we could at any

5 time take a portion of our money and invest it with a

6 known company, an alternate way of funding and that

7 type of a thing.

8 The contract you spoke of, the one we

9 were on in the last five years, the one that was, not

10 to cloud the issue, but forced upon the pension board

11 by the City Council at that time, written by Council

12 solicitor at that time, made it rock solid that none of

13 that money could move. We this time going back out,

14 the pension board, have the right to move money around

15 again.

16 In fact, Mellon in their proposal has

17 in that they must keep $30 million at all times. We

18 would take $45 and move it around.

19 What Judy and I spoke about the other

20 day and spoke to the Mayor about the other day, the

21 first step in this thing is to send down the Mellon

22 contract, because that's what the board after

23 exercising their responsibility have offered to do.

24 Then moving forward, Mellon is known in

25 the world as one of the very best bond people right


1 now. As a matter of fact, our money is with

2 Provident Bank, that's who does our investing.

3 Provident invests our bonds with Mellon Bank, that's

4 how we do our bonds.

5 Well, we're looking at moving forward,

6 is that Mellon absolutely has to keep the $30 million

7 all the time. That's part of the contract, that's part

8 of the way that they're going to make money, despite

9 the lowball. But going forward, we can take any

10 portion of this money and give it to alternate money

11 manages.

12 MR. MCTIERNAN: Then let's put it out

13 there now.

14 MR. OSBORNE: Let me finish. One

15 moment.


17 MR. OSBORNE: Judy, sitting there with

18 me the other day, I gave the Mayor my word, for lack of

19 a better description, that that is something our board

20 is looking to do, but the way you do that is if we're

21 looking for a particular area, mid cap size, large cap

22 size, we say here's an area you're looking for, we're

23 looking, we go out and we get two or three offerings

24 and the board exercising that fiduciary responsibility

25 looks to move a portion of the money around to create


1 that competition, Bob, what people are asking us to do

2 right now, and this is what the whole basis of the

3 conversation, and I think Judy will agree with me the

4 other day was, what we are being asked to do right now

5 is to hire Mellon, as the board didn't review or

6 recommend it, and also hire these three other people.

7 MR. MCTIERNAN: Who are the three other

8 people?

9 MR. OSBORNE: I don't think I should

10 saw it publicly.

11 MR. MCTIERNAN: Well, if that's the

12 case, Terry --

13 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: You're saying

14 Mellon.

15 MR. MCTIERNAN: -- I think the problem

16 that we're having is is there a lot of people after

17 this money because it's a lot of money.

18 MR. OSBORNE: Right.

19 MR. MCTIERNAN: So, I'm probably

20 looking for the same guarantee from you that you're

21 looking from me. How do I have a guarantee six months

22 down the road that with that 30 percent or that $30

23 million in six months, you don't allocate somewhere

24 else, why don't we then make that proposal to have

25 Mellon manage X, and then let's divvy the $30 million


1 up right now. We'll do the RFPs, and let's get

2 everybody into the action now.

3 MR. OSBORNE: Because there has been no

4 review conducted on those other proposals. Do you want

5 the other answer to that question?

6 MR. MCTIERNAN: I think you could get

7 five votes, if you do that.

8 MR. OSBORNE: Okay. But what got

9 reported at our meeting the other day is right now

10 currently, as I said, Mellon is in the eight

11 percentile. They are doing well in all those areas.

12 It's when a need is discovered or the

13 breaking up just to create the competition is done

14 through the same process we just went through. People

15 submit proposals, the board reviews them, and the board

16 makes a recommendation.

17 In all honestly, that board or that

18 recommendation would not even have to come back through

19 this whole process. It would not come back as a whole

20 separate contract. That is the everyday operation of

21 the pension fund.

22 We have had conversations with some of

23 those people who did propose the last time around and

24 said we are looking for it.

25 And I think Judy and I speaking with


1 the Mayor the other day said, we'll be probably looking

2 to do that probably within about a six month to a one

3 year period.

4 MR. MCTIERNAN: And, again, let's be

5 frank --

6 MR. OSBORNE: Right. But it shouldn't

7 be done upfront just on a recommendation.

8 MR. MCTIERNAN: I hear what you're

9 saying, but in this environment of mistrust across the

10 board, let's call it like it is, then maybe we need to

11 do it up front.

12 Because I'm telling you that the

13 feeling, and it has nothing to do with politics, it has

14 to do with the fact that there are people who don't

15 trust people on both sides of this issue. And --

16 MR. OSBORNE: The bottom line with

17 that, Bob, in all honesty --

18 MR. MCTIERNAN: You're telling me

19 you're going to divide it up, then let's do it upfront.

20 MR. OSBORNE: But the bottom line on

21 all that is, as we discussed at the meeting, the state

22 law says the Composite Pension Board shall be managed

23 by a board of trustees --

24 MR. MCTIERNAN: I understand.

25 MR. OSBORNE: -- two police, two fire


1 and two non-uniform.

2 MR. MCTIERNAN: I'll vote your way if

3 you put that out now. There's a guarantee.

4 MR. OSBORNE: What's that?

5 MR. MCTIERNAN: Reconstitute your board

6 the way it was, put all that money right up right up

7 front. Let's not play games with all the $30 million.

8 Put it up front, you have my vote. That's on the

9 record.

10 MR. OSBORNE: With the board?


12 MR. OSBORNE: That's what we're going

13 into court at the end of April for.

14 MR. MCTIERNAN: You don't need to go to

15 court.

16 MR. OSBORNE: We do. You guys refused

17 to override the mayor's veto.

18 MR. MCTIERNAN: I'll make the motion,

19 because we know how that goes with CRF. We'll

20 reconstitute it. You put it all out right now.

21 MR. OSBORNE: I'm missing your point.

22 MR. MCTIERNAN: We'll reconstitute the

23 vote. I'll make the vote.

24 MR. OSBORNE: The board?

25 MR. MCTIERNAN: Reconstitute the board


1 as it was. I was in the negative. We will

2 reconstitute it. Let's split the money up, put it out

3 for bid right now.

4 MR. OSBORNE: You're talking two

5 different issues now.

6 MR. MCTIERNAN: You just brought up the

7 board, didn't you? You brought it up.

8 MR. OSBORNE: I'm saying the five

9 members of City Council, the Mayor, the assistant city

10 solicitor, the city solicitor are not listed as

11 managers of the fund, the employees are. That's where

12 it begins.

13 And the managers of the fund made a

14 recommendation to sign the contract and nothing has

15 moved since.

16 MR. MCTIERNAN: I understand. I don't

17 understand why you brought up the board now. I'm just

18 bringing that back up saying if that's the linchpin,

19 that's an easy fix for me.

20 But anyway, what I could ask you to

21 clear it up in my mind, one of the things I'm stuck on

22 is I'm stuck on that operating on this mode -- this

23 mode of trust with nothing in front of me.

24 Quite frankly, I have what you've told

25 me verbally, I've had what two or three other finance


1 institutions have told me verbally, and you're asking

2 me and making insinuations that there is X, Y and Z

3 going on out there.

4 I would suggest, and I'll make a motion

5 at this time, to ask you to bring the proposals

6 together, and I will make time to be here and explain

7 it to whatever member of the board wants to hear them

8 and explain them to me in biology teacher terms.

9 MR. OSBORNE: Okay.

10 MR. MCTIERNAN: Because I haven't --

11 MR. OSBORNE: I know you arrived late

12 that night, but we did that once with a caucus already.

13 MR. MCTIERNAN: I understand.

14 MR. OSBORNE: We actually have turnout

15 sheets to show you.

16 MR. MCTIERNAN: I'd like to see all

17 that stuff. I'd like to see all the proposals, though,

18 with --

19 MR. OSBORNE: Let's do another caucus

20 then.

21 MR. MCTIERNAN: I'd like to see that

22 just so I understand.

23 MS. GATELLI: That's fine. We will

24 schedule it for the 6th. Can we do it as soon as

25 possible?


1 MR. OSBORNE: Judy, I'm actually out of

2 town next week at the fire academy.

3 MS. GATELLI: Well, it can't be until

4 the 20th then.

5 MR. MCTIERNAN: I just want to

6 understand.

7 MR. OSBORNE: I thought guys had those

8 sheets.

9 MR. MCTIERNAN: I don't have all of the

10 proposals, I don't. The only thing I have is the

11 different -- I have summaries, but I don't have the

12 proposals, nor do I understand how the Mayor --

13 MS. GATELLI: All right. We'll just

14 schedule it at a later date.

15 MR. OSBORNE: Because I'm sure all the

16 members of our board, including Roseanne, would want to

17 attend that.

18 MS. EVANS: Mr. Osborne, if I may, is

19 this the bottom line? The pension board was sacked.

20 People were appointed to the board who have no right to

21 that appointment.

22 Now, in so doing, there's obviously a

23 method to that madness. They're there for some reason.

24 And now the pension board has made the recommendation

25 for how they want their money managed, and it is


1 apparently the lowest responsible bid.

2 And I think the reason that you're

3 hearing I know how Council people will vote in advance,

4 is because of the way Council has already voted on this

5 issue.

6 When I believe Mrs. Gatelli made a

7 motion to send a letter to the Mayor asking him to send

8 down this legislation to appoint Mellon Bank, we had

9 three nos and two yeses.

10 So, I don't think that, you know, this

11 -- I don't think it's fair to say this isn't the

12 political issue. This smacks of politics. And that's

13 where they got that information from.

14 And in terms of, you know, there was

15 even a suggestion that night, Well, let's send the

16 Mayor a letter and let him pick out who he'd like.

17 Now, how political is that statement?

18 So, you know, I think we need to stop

19 beating around the bush here. The bottom line is you

20 can either do the right thing or you can skirt it,

21 discuss it, distort it any way you want to try to

22 achieve your end, because you're up against a wall in

23 court, your people might be eliminated. What if this

24 came to another vote?

25 It frankly -- I think you know, and I


1 know and everybody sitting here knows the background on

2 this and exactly where it's coming from and who's

3 involved.


5 Mrs. Evans, I totally resent that implication. I'll be

6 honest with you, that was not the case.

7 The case was I had met with Terry 100

8 times over this issue and we kept talking about it and

9 talking about it.

10 The reason I would not okay that letter

11 was because he did not inform me. I had no idea what I

12 was voting on. I wasn't just going to vote blindly

13 just to vote.

14 Maybe other people would, but that was

15 not -- and after the meeting, I was talked to, and

16 somebody had said to me, and I'm not going to go onto

17 this, this is what we want, because we want to send it

18 to court, we want to send it to court. That was the

19 words that came out. That was not from me. So, you

20 want to talk politics? You're talking to the wrong

21 person.

22 MS. EVANS: Well, they wanted to send

23 it to court because they're not getting the proper

24 things done.



1 MS. EVANS: No.

2 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: You're wrong.

3 MS. EVANS: We have --

4 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: The taxpayers are

5 the ones who have to pay for this money.

6 MS. EVANS: Excuse me. I'm talking,

7 Mrs. Fanucci.

8 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: You're always

9 talking. Go ahead.

10 MS. EVANS: The problem is that this

11 administration has violated contract after contract

12 after contract, and anyone, you don't have to be a

13 contract attorney to know you cannot do that and expect

14 to win. You cannot do that and not expect to pay a

15 heavy price.

16 And this constant appeal of issues is

17 nothing more than an attempt to prolong the inevitable,

18 or else it's an attempt to make some attorneys even

19 wealthier than they are right now on these issues. But

20 the bottom line here is, everybody sitting out there is

21 paying for this.

22 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: They are paying

23 for it.

24 MS. EVANS: Yes, they are.

25 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: The taxpayers are


1 the ones who have to put the money in the fund if it

2 doesn't work out. The taxpayers are the ones who have

3 to bail it out, not anybody else, not those guys. They

4 don't have to bail it out.

5 MS. EVANS: You know what, Mrs.

6 Fanucci, they've been bailing this out for the last

7 four or five years.


9 MS. EVANS: Because somebody came in on

10 Council and then into the administration who made a

11 political football out of it.

12 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: That was not on my

13 watch.

14 MS. EVANS: That wasn't on my watch,

15 either. So, I think we know this all started last

16 summer, and I think we know where it's headed, and

17 basically it's coming down to once again the unions

18 versus the administration.

19 MR. OSBORNE: I will say this, though,

20 Janet, and I think we tried to make this point the

21 other day, because some on the administrative side

22 tried to make this a union issue, and I think, Judy,

23 you'll back me up on this when I say this, I told them,

24 I've been on the pension board for 21 years. Prior to

25 that term, I served as the union president.


1 The contractual fights and all that

2 stuff, the arbitrations, has always been held separate.

3 It's never entered into the pension fund.

4 The pension fund existed for the

5 betterment of the pension fund. It had nothing to do

6 with an Act 111 arbitration, it had nothing to do

7 whether I got a pay raise or didn't get a pay raise.

8 It was all held separate.

9 The pension fund was held sacred

10 because there was a promise to a lot of people,

11 including myself.

12 MS. EVANS: Oh, believe me, I

13 understand. I only intertwined the concepts because --

14 MR. OSBORNE: I understand that.

15 MS. EVANS: -- the sad fact is, all

16 these people are paying for deals, back door, back room

17 deals.

18 MR. OSBORNE: But, again, if we can set

19 up that caucus that Mr. McTiernan spoke about, because,

20 and I have to be honest with you, Bobby, because that

21 is what the pension board already did.

22 MR. MCTIERNAN: I understand.

23 MR. OSBORNE: We got the written --

24 MS. GATELLI: Terry, let's try it once

25 more.


1 MR. OSBORNE: We brought them all in.

2 They made about 15, 20 minute oral presentations then,

3 and then we voted with what was the best offering.

4 And, again, I'm not making shots at

5 anybody, in the 21 year history of Act 205, we then

6 always submitted to Council and the administration, and

7 they voted unanimously 5-0 every single time.

8 The last time that right was taken to

9 us by Council, and, again, we spoke the other day at

10 our meeting, that was because it had $7.8 million they

11 could make.

12 The preference of the pension board at

13 that time was not to involve the pension fund in the

14 city needing $7.8 million. That was not a pension fund

15 created problem. That was an administration created

16 problem, but that's the reason we didn't oppose it at

17 that time, because we knew the city needed the money.

18 And as I said to the administration the

19 other day, we were fooled then. And what this now is

20 coming down, Bob, is the pension board's attitude, and

21 unfortunately it is a matter of trust. It's fool me

22 once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

23 So, that is why we now have to hold

24 firm with this. We cannot let people, other than those

25 with the fiduciary responsibility, other than those who


1 are managers of the fund, other than those who attended

2 the three to four to five meetings that were held

3 reviewing every single one of these proposals to make

4 that recommendation. It has to be based on that

5 recommendation.

6 And then going forward, and, again,

7 Judy, back me up, if you'd like, we said to the Mayor

8 the other day, if he has somebody, if the pension board

9 a year from now has a special need for some other area

10 investment and the Mayor knows somebody that's good in

11 that, I said Judy Gatelli might even know somebody good

12 in that area, send those people to the pension board.

13 I don't care if they're a friend of the

14 Mayor or if they're a friend of Judy's, if they're a

15 friend of yours or if there's a friend of mine, if we

16 submit or we take in three to four proposals for a

17 particular investment, the guy who's the best, whether

18 he's a friend of the Mayor, whether he's a friend of

19 mine, whether he's a friend of the guy who lost in the

20 Mayor's race, that's who the pension board is going to

21 vote, because that's what we've done for 21 years.

22 It's what we have to do to guarantee ourselves a

23 pension. And that's where we're at.

24 MR. MCTIERNAN: I appreciate everything

25 you're saying. Thank you for coming. And all I need


1 to know is so that I'm comfortable.

2 I understand your position on where the

3 votes are, but I still have to cast a vote.

4 MR. OSBORNE: Absolutely.

5 MR. MCTIERNAN: So, I need to be

6 comfortable with seeing those --

7 MR. OSBORNE: And you know you and I

8 have talked about --

9 MR. MCTIERNAN: Sure. That was super.

10 And I appreciate it. Thank you.

11 MS. GATELLI: Terry, we'll schedule it

12 as soon as you're available.

13 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I do want to say

14 one more thing, Terry. You know that I had sat down

15 with you. We tried to figure this thing out and done

16 it in a very professional way. And to sit here and

17 imply that -- my problem is the implying of the

18 politics. That's the only reason --

19 MR. OSBORNE: Sherry, here's what I'm

20 saying, though, the politics here, in all honestly,

21 started before you were here.

22 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Well, I understand

23 it, and that's what I'm saying, but to imply, like, Oh,

24 we already know who's going to vote what way, that is

25 totally absurd and ridiculous, because I think we're


1 all in a learning curve for this right now.

2 MR. OSBORNE: Well, here's what I want

3 to say to you, and I don't want to talk in public about

4 it, you talk to Judy after the meeting, we didn't

5 accept those -- I wrote them down, 2-2-1. That was

6 what was told to Judy and I the other day. We didn't

7 set those numbers.

8 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Well, I think it's

9 funny, because, you know, I had heard that before, too,

10 that you had claimed that I was going to vote with you.

11 I think it's hysterical. I think it's funny that

12 everybody claims that they know.

13 But the reality is this is reality.

14 So, everybody could claim to know what they think, but

15 it actually doesn't mean it's the case.

16 I mean, you know that. How many times

17 have you come for a vote thinking that you know where

18 it's going, and it doesn't go anyway?

19 MR. OSBORNE: Our position when we were

20 here two weeks ago was send it down and vote it up yes,

21 no.


23 wasn't even informed of it, and I said no, because I'm

24 not going to vote --

25 MR. OSBORNE: Send the ordinance down,


1 as we've done for 21 years, send the ordinance down

2 with the recommendation of the pension board, which is

3 even what they did five years ago, they sent down our

4 recommendation and the Council, not you people, that

5 Council that day set it aside and did their own thing.

6 Unfortunately we've paid the price for five years. But

7 our point is, send it down, and you people all have one

8 vote, and then we know where everybody is.

9 MS. GATELLI: Terry, when you come,

10 make sure you bring Attorney Savitsky. Thank you.

11 MR. OSBORNE: Thank you very much.

12 Appreciate it.

13 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Anyone else

14 care to speak before Council?

15 MS. HEALEY: My name is Gerard Healey,

16 and I'm a property owner in the Hill Section, and I

17 have a few concerns for the last several years. I have

18 some pictures here that I would like you to look at, if

19 you don't mind.

20 I have an adjacent property to me and

21 three of my neighbors, it's like a 30-by-40 foot parcel

22 the city owns, okay? And numerous attempts were --

23 those pictures were taken over a year ago, by the way.

24 The trees are not. They're dead.

25 There's, like, ten dead trees that are at least 60 to


1 0150 feet tall, and they come down in pieces.

2 And the point I'm trying to make, I

3 contacted DPW on numerous occasions over the last

4 several years.

5 MR. MCTIERNAN: How close are they to

6 your home, sir?

7 MR. HEALEY: Like I say, within -- my

8 house, the actual physical house, 40 feet, 30 feet, you

9 know, and my neighbor's house, even closer. The ones

10 that are next door to me.

11 And the point is, I was upset with the

12 property and I tried to purchase it actually, and then

13 when I went to do the title search, it's all messed up.

14 The guy he took it from, he resold it, moved in, resold

15 it, and it was going to cost me thousands.

16 But the point I'm saying is these trees

17 are like they've been dead for years and they're, like,

18 in excess of 60 to 150 feet tall. And they have to be

19 removed.

20 And I can't go there and remove them.

21 I tried to, like, downgrade my property. And, also,

22 like I say, they have to be removed. I mean, there's

23 no two ways about it. They're falling down.

24 I've taken out 80-foot sections that

25 fell on my driveway as you drop down, little chips.


1 But as I said, you know, I just want to

2 cut the things down. It's a mess. And if one of these

3 falls on my house and crushes it, it's not an act of

4 God, it's an act of negligence that people, you know,

5 remove them when they were at lest aware of it -- it

6 has been several years now.

7 MR. MCTIERNAN: Do you know who owns

8 the lot?

9 MR. HEALEY: The City of Scranton. I

10 tried to purchase it from the City of Scranton, but the

11 owner didn't pay taxes on it for 20 some years.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Where is lot at?

13 MR. HEALEY: Rear of 1328 Vine Street.

14 MR. MCTIERNAN: Kay, could you contact

15 DPW to see if they will address that situation for us?

16 Thank you.

17 MS. WARDELL: Good evening, Council.

18 MS. GATELLI: Good evening.

19 MS. WARDELL: You're talking to an old

20 Southsider herself. I was born and raised in South

21 Side here. I went to South Scranton Junior High School

22 and didn't move out of here until I got married.

23 I have to say, though, I'm thrilled I

24 moved out of here, because what has happened to South

25 Side over those years I've left is very, very sad.


1 I have an awful lot of things to say,

2 because I don't come to these meetings regularly

3 anymore.

4 I would like to talk first about the

5 police arbitration. According to the newspaper, we've

6 -- the city has now lost eight arbitration cases.

7 And The Times made it pretty clear that

8 even though we lost these arbitration cases, the city

9 has not paid out any of that money, because they're all

10 under appeal.

11 Now as finance chair, Mr. McTiernan,

12 can you tell me, not talking about the award, but what

13 we have paid in attorneys fees for these eight

14 arbitration cases that we have lost?

15 MR. MCTIERNAN: Off the top of my head,

16 no. I can find that out, though.

17 MS. WARDELL: Does anybody have any

18 idea what that was?


20 MR. MCTIERNAN: I'm sure hundreds of

21 thousands of dollars.

22 MS. WARDELL: Now, another question I

23 have is, Why is it fair, and someone had brought this

24 up before, why is it fair to sit down and negotiate a

25 contract with the DPW, and I do believe that they got


1 three bonuses and then a raise this past year, and yet

2 we cannot sit down with the police and firemen and work

3 out the same differences. Why can't that be done?

4 Terry Osborne should know that this is

5 not a government or an administration that is run by

6 the people for the people. This is an administration

7 that is run by the Mayor for the Mayor, and he is

8 determined, and it's obvious in the last four years

9 he's been in office, he will do whatever he can to

10 knock these unions down.

11 He has blamed these unions for not

12 following the Recovery Plan and for our financial

13 ruination, and yet our city solicitor in The Times the

14 other day said the arbitrator is not following the law.

15 He is not following the Recovery Plan.

16 Well, you know what, I had to laugh,

17 because the Mayor certainly is not following the

18 Recovery Plan, and there are a lot of places where he

19 could have followed that Recovery Plan.

20 I also would like to talk about the

21 fact that now we're considering putting cameras in the

22 city. First of all, that's a terrible invasion of

23 privacy. We not New York or Philadelphia or Los

24 Angeles. Do we have crime here? Yes. Is it on the

25 rise? Yes, it is. Do we need cameras watching our


1 every move? I don't think so.

2 Even though we're getting a grant

3 that's going to pay for these cameras, who is going to

4 monitor these cameras? Is there going to be a

5 policeman taking out of a patrol car off the street to

6 sit here and monitor these cameras, or are we just

7 going to run videos in them and then get somebody every

8 once in a while to sit down and look at these videos?

9 And who is going to maintain these cameras?

10 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mary Ann, I think I

11 can answer some of it. I don't think it's carved in

12 stone. What the cameras would be is that, my

13 understanding, and I could be wrong, is they be placed

14 in areas where high crime was where suspected drug

15 activity, and then --

16 MS. WARDELL: Huh, Bill, whoa, stop

17 right there. That's all over the city. That's not

18 confined to one area. That is all over the city.

19 And I'll tell you what, Bill, it's even

20 in Green Ridge and it's up on East Mountain, and it's

21 at places where you would not believe that it is.

22 These nice kids, you know, some of

23 these very wealthy children that live in very wealthy

24 neighborhoods have a lot of bucks to spend on this

25 stuff.


1 And let me tell you as somebody that

2 lives, not in that area, but around that area, I see it

3 all the time. So, where, where, are you going to catch

4 drug activity?

5 MR. COURTRIGHT: I think it would be up

6 to the police department to determine where they think

7 they need them, and I think, and, again, I think, what

8 would be happening it will be monitored at the desk.

9 And I don't know if they need to put an

10 additional officer there or if the desk guy is going to

11 do it, I truly believe the desk guy would be too busy

12 to monitor those cameras, or it's going to be a special

13 unit.

14 MS. WARDELL: So, where do you get the

15 guy? Do you take him out of a car or do you take him

16 off the street? Personally I would rather have the guy

17 on the street in a patrol car than sitting watching the

18 video.

19 You know, did you ever sit and watch

20 videos for a while? Let me tell you what, the eyes

21 glaze over and you start nodding off and getting real

22 tired. There might be a crime that happened down

23 there. You know what, he might be sleeping and not see

24 it at all.

25 MR. COURTRIGHT: Right. I don't want


1 to see us replace an officer on the street, no, that's

2 not what I would like to see happen.

3 MS. WARDELL: Well, these are things

4 that have to be talked about.

5 MR. COURTRIGHT: Well, I think it's in

6 the preliminary stages. I haven't even been privy to

7 any of this information. This is all hearsay.

8 Nobody's called me in and said, Hey,

9 Bill, this is what --

10 MS. WARDELL: I'm going by the paper,

11 Bill.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't read the

13 paper. I'm only telling you --

14 MS. WARDELL: Well, you know, The Times

15 is the best paper around. They print the facts.

16 They're not biased. They're perfectly -- I better not

17 talk, because I won a $50 gift certificate.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm just hearing from

19 other officers telling me that they think that's what's

20 going on. No one's called me, either the director of

21 public safety or the Mayor, the chief, nobody's privied

22 me to any of that. I'm just telling you what I'm

23 hearing. It's hearsay.

24 MS. WARDELL: And I'm telling you what

25 I'm thinking, okay?


1 MR. COURTRIGHT: Right. I understand.

2 MS. WARDELL: And I just want to say

3 one more thing, because I know I'm out of time, real

4 development and redevelopment is not loft apartments,

5 it is not nice boutiques. You know what it is? It's

6 jobs that people work at that can maintain a family

7 that do not have to work two or three jobs.

8 Real redevelopment is bringing

9 companies into this city that will pay a living wage.

10 Loft apartments are wonderful, if you can afford them,

11 but, you know, if you can't, that's your problem.

12 But little boutiques and little shops,

13 are they going to employ people? Yes, they'll employ

14 three or four or five people and they'll get paid

15 probably five or six dollars an hour.

16 I can't afford to live on five or six

17 dollars, and you guys can't afford to live on five or

18 six dollars an hour, and yet those are the kind of jobs

19 that you're seeing with development that we are

20 bringing in here.

21 We've got to start working on big time

22 development, good paying jobs, and then you know what,

23 then there will be people that can afford those loft

24 apartments and those $279,000 townhouses.

25 If you bring the jobs, then you don't


1 have to worry about those things being built or being

2 emptied, because people will be able to afford them.

3 Thank you very much.

4 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

5 Mr. Ancherani.

6 MR. ANCHERANI: Good evening. I'm

7 Nelson Ancherani. I'm a resident and taxpayer, city

8 employee and financial secretary for the FOP.

9 Last week, Mrs. Gatelli, you asked me

10 for a list of the city employee soldiers that returned

11 from Iraq. I have some new information, so I will have

12 the information for you next week.

13 MS. GATELLI: Okay.

14 MR. ANCHERANI: Also, I'll speak on the

15 police arbitration issue in the future. There's a lot

16 to say about that, so we'll save that.

17 Mrs. Wardell said that city didn't

18 follow the Recovery Plan, and she's right. That

19 Recovery Plan has been violated from the start. That's

20 four years.

21 I've been here -- I started going to

22 the Council meetings approximately four years ago, and

23 I've been saying all they had to do, all the Mayor had

24 to do, was sit down with the unions. They could have

25 worked out a contract. They could have.


1 We've given before. The newspaper will

2 not say that. The newspaper never says that we gave

3 before, but we did. We've always given when the city

4 cried poverty. We've helped, but we're the scapegoats.

5 We're the whipping posts. And we've taken it and taken

6 it and taken it.

7 Now the taxpayers are going to take it.

8 Those guys over there and the young lady are going to

9 take it, because they're going to be here and they're

10 going to be paying the taxes that they've enacted now.

11 They're going to pay that $220 million back.

12 I can leave when I retire. They're

13 here. They're stuck, unless they go. But they are

14 going to pay, and they're going to pay dearly. We

15 could have done this four years ago, and we didn't, but

16 we could have.

17 So, nobody is going to put the

18 scapegoat on the unions. They look in the mirror, they

19 can see where it came from. They're going to call the

20 award illegal. It's not illegal.

21 And I feel bad that the taxpayers are

22 going to pay. We're all taxpayers. We're all going to

23 pay it, every one of us, and we're going to pay dearly.

24 That's all I have to say. Thank you.

25 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Mrs. Franus.


1 MS. FRANUS: Fay Franus. Now we're

2 going to talk. True, we're going to talk, and I don't

3 want to hear, please, I do not want to hear, I resent

4 that, because the truth is the truth is the truth.

5 And I wasn't even going to speak, but

6 then when I heard Mrs. Fanucci say, is this speaker

7 okay, that she resents Mrs. Evans' comments, just

8 because you say that, Mrs. Fanucci, doesn't make it

9 right, doesn't make it true, just because you claim not

10 to do this or do that. Do you think people -- no, wait

11 a minute.

12 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: No, I don't want

13 to interrupt. Go ahead. I thought you were asking me

14 a question.

15 MS. FRANUS: That wasn't a question.

16 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Oh, okay.

17 MS. FRANUS: It was a statement.


19 MS. FRANUS: Just because you say

20 something, doesn't mean it's law. People have a right

21 to form their own opinion, and I will tell you this,

22 when I go to bed at night, if Mrs. Evans says

23 something, I tend to believe it just from the past

24 history.

25 So, you sort of wonder, don't you? I


1 mean, she says something, you say, Oh, I resent that.

2 Too bad. I think it's the truth. And I think people

3 should know the truth, and I think more should be

4 exposed.

5 I think everybody on this Council

6 should dig into the deals and tell the people in the

7 City of Scranton. We all know there's deals.

8 Everybody up there says, Oh, no,

9 there's no deals. Like hell there's no deals. There's

10 lots of deals. The whole city is run by deals.

11 Just like Mrs. Evans said, back room

12 politics. Everything is deals. This is what the

13 people in the City of Scranton are fed up with, because

14 we don't have a say in anything, because the Mayor

15 appoints everybody he wants, and Council members

16 appoint everybody you want to certain people to

17 committees.

18 Look at the Redevelopment Authority,

19 the Recreation Authority, I mean, with Mr. Marinucci.

20 He has been on there since World War I. I mean, he

21 should be gone, but they keep on putting their own

22 people on. Why? Because they want certain things

23 done.

24 Just like some of you people up here.

25 Oh, you might resent it, but it's true. You're there


1 to do deals.

2 And nothing is going to get done in

3 this city as long as certain people are on this

4 Council. It's going to be all yes votes.

5 And you're going to have your little

6 excuses. You're going to have your reasons why you're

7 voting yes and no, and you expect us to believe it.

8 We're not stupid. We know exactly why you're doing it.

9 You're reasons are excuses.

10 Mrs. Evans is the only one with the

11 courage and the conviction to stand here and take the

12 crap and let the people know.

13 And she stands there by herself. And

14 everybody is saying, Oh, you're wrong, you're wrong.

15 No, she's not. She's right. She's right. And the

16 people in the city know this.

17 So, you all are going to be exposed

18 sooner or later. You see, the problem is we always bad

19 politician elected. People that -- most people can't

20 afford to run that are decent people, but you people

21 got all these people to back you and the money comes in

22 to pay for your campaign because they want to make sure

23 the right people get in office to push through what

24 they want, give the contracts to who they want to, all

25 their friends, all their relatives.


1 No decent people have a chance in the

2 city, but we have to pay for all the shenanigans and

3 all the lined pockets, all the deals, all the deals.

4 This whole city is one big deal, and I'm sick of it,

5 and everybody in the city is sick of it.

6 But what do we do? We can't get you

7 out of office because nobody decent runs. And when you

8 get a decent one, everybody backs -- you don't have

9 enough votes to do the right thing.

10 Mrs. Evans is always doing the right

11 thing, but does get enough votes to get things through?

12 No. But she will try.

13 You got to give somebody credit to do

14 that, but you should have the courage to do something

15 right, instead of doing everything Mr. Doherty wants

16 all the time.

17 So, this whole Council for the next

18 four years is going to be yes, yes, yes, or if he wants

19 it to be no, it's going to be no. This is sickening.

20 What could we do? We don't have

21 anybody else to vote for. We have to vote who's on the

22 list. Too bad, because decent people can't afford to

23 run. It's a shame that the people that run have all

24 these big backers.

25 And, Mrs. Fanucci, when you say, I


1 resent that, too bad, because the people in the city

2 don't believe you.

3 So, you can say anything you want. I

4 don't believe a word you say, and the people in the

5 City of Scranton don't believe it. Talk all you want

6 and make all the excuses you want.

7 And another thing, I should probably

8 sit here and talk for 45 minutes, because if somebody

9 is going to speak for five minutes, they should speak

10 for five minutes, not 30 minutes for one, 30 minutes

11 for one. It's got to be one way or the other, I would

12 think. Stick to it or change the rules. Thank you.

13 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I would just like

14 to ask everybody out there, was she speaking for

15 everybody in the city? Do you all feel -- well, you

16 two we know, but everyone else, do you feel that way?

17 Let's be honest. Here is what happens.

18 Excuse me one second. I'm speaking. Thank you.

19 MS. GATELLI: If you want to speak, you

20 have to come to the microphone.

21 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: All we hear all

22 the time --

23 MS. FRANUS: Mrs. Fanucci, excuse me

24 one second. There's about 45 people here. This is not

25 the whole City of Scranton. Just because they say they


1 believe you doesn't make it right. I'm sorry. That's

2 it. There's thousands of people at home. That's it.

3 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: It's so funny that

4 we have to hear about who donates all the time. I am

5 so sick and tired of campaign donations being the big

6 issue.

7 Is it okay if the unions back people

8 100 percent, 50 percent? Is that okay? Does anybody

9 come up here and say, Well, they're union backed. That

10 must be terrible. No. It's the same exact thing. We

11 have to raise our money.

12 Now, if people think it's bad because I

13 could raise money, that's the way to get here. Sorry.

14 It happens. You know why you do it? Because people

15 believe in you. They believe in you, and they give you

16 the money. I'm sorry that offends you so much.

17 Everyone who comes up here to complain

18 and yell are the people that in certain campaigns that

19 I've been dealing with out on the street, they've been

20 listening, in my face, yelling, telling me I'm on the

21 wrong team, telling me this, that, I am on the team I

22 want to be on, which is the people's team.

23 Just because I don't agree with you and

24 you don't agree with me, doesn't mean I'm wrong. It

25 doesn't mean you're wrong either, but certainly don't


1 come up here and accuse me of all these things because

2 you don't agree with me.

3 It's okay that you don't agree with me,

4 and it's okay I don't agree with you. I understand

5 that you think that Mrs. Evans is right all the time.

6 I think that's wonderful. She needs people to think

7 she's right all the time so she can do what it is she

8 wants to do, but don't get mad at me because I don't

9 agree with Mrs. Evans all the time.

10 I am not going to sit here and act like

11 everything is okay all the time. That's all I have to

12 say. Thank you.

13 MS. GATELLI: No, no, no.

14 MS. FRANUS: One thing.


16 MS. FRANUS: One thing, Judy.

17 MS. GATELLI: Please, Fay.

18 MS. FRANUS: Just because Mrs. Fanucci

19 says what she just said, which is fine, doesn't make it

20 right. That's all I'm saying.

21 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: It's right for me.

22 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else care to speak

23 before Council? Okay. Mrs. Garvey.

24 MS. GARVEY: 5-A, Motions.

25 MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Evans.


1 MS. EVANS: Just one quick comment on

2 what was just said about me. I don't need people

3 basically -- I don't need people to think I'm right all

4 the time, and that enables me to do what I do. I'm

5 able to do what I do, because, number one, I do my

6 homework. I read, I research, I ask questions, I

7 investigate.

8 Secondly, I talk to the people of

9 Scranton.

10 Third, I'm accessible to them at all

11 times, whether it's through phone calls, E-mails,

12 visits to their homes, visits to their churches, visits

13 to their neighborhood meetings, they know I'm there for

14 them.

15 And so, my vote is cast on their

16 behalf, and I give them the information that I have

17 acquired by means of my having this seat on City

18 Council. So, I thank you for bearing with me. I just

19 felt that that certainly deserved an explanation.

20 Now, I would ask all of you for your

21 prayers for Mary Dollripple, who passed away one week

22 ago, and also for her family that she leaves behind,

23 her dear mother, her two sons, and her husband most

24 particularly.

25 Now, we were brought to South Side


1 tonight to entertain legislation which announces a $1

2 million allocation for the Cedar Avenue project, and

3 this is a long overdue and highly worthy step.

4 I am absolutely thrilled for South

5 Side, and I hope that our other sections of Scranton

6 will receive help soon, as well.

7 Pine Brook, for example, needs

8 extensive tree trimming, North Scranton needs sidewalks

9 and curbing beyond Providence Square, West Scranton, to

10 my knowledge, has received next to nothing in the last

11 four years, and East Scranton needs help with blighted

12 properties and absentee landlords, and all of the areas

13 in the city need paving.

14 So, I am hoping that each neighborhood

15 is going to be satisfactorily addressed, whether it's

16 one at a time, one year at a time, or spreading the

17 wealth around, because there's so much that's needed in

18 all of our neighborhoods.

19 On Saturday, March 25, another $1.7

20 million was also the headline of the day. The Scranton

21 police had won raises and bonuses as a result of the

22 arbitrator's decision. The biggest news, however, was

23 that the Mayor will appeal the decision.

24 Here's the bottom line, this is, as was

25 mentioned before, the eighth arbitration loss for the


1 Mayor in just a little over four years. How many times

2 would you have to lose before you would learn from your

3 mistakes?

4 Secondly, Mr. Doherty believes that his

5 Recovery Plan has been violated, so he will appeal yet

6 another arbitration award. How ironic this statement

7 is, particularly since he regularly violated the

8 Recovery Plan himself.

9 And sadly, the people cannot appeal his

10 decisions, his decisions to create unnecessary jobs,

11 award significant raises to administrative non-union

12 employees, and a mass of monolithic bills for

13 attorneys' fees.

14 And as I mentioned before, why does the

15 Mayor appeal every arbitration, except one award, which

16 included money for a non-union employee? I believe

17 he's buying time before the financial tsunami hits.

18 American Water Services, don't forget,

19 they are owed $5.5 million, according to the

20 arbitrator's award.

21 And now, of course, the police $1.7

22 million, and I don't believe that includes previous

23 arbitration awards, which to date have never been paid

24 because they're in appeal.

25 And then, of course, the firefighters'


1 arbitration award has yet to be announced, but it, too,

2 is coming, and I think very soon. Now, these are the

3 extras. This is above and beyond our debt service of

4 $20 million for 2006.

5 Now the Mayor wants to use more of your

6 tax money to fight yet another arbitration battle. And

7 in my mind, this is truly a losing battle. The only

8 winner here could be the Mayor, who postpones the

9 inevitable long enough to get out of office, or the

10 attorneys who will certainly benefit from this

11 continuous arrangement.

12 Well, I believe the Mayor must stop

13 flushing taxpayers' dollars down the toilet. He's

14 violated contracts over and over again. He won't

15 provide even COLAS to our union members, our union

16 workers, our public safety workers, and he never made,

17 as was testified to by a member of the police union, he

18 never made a good faith attempt at a negotiation with

19 the police or the firefighters.

20 And so now the people are going to pay

21 the price for the Mayor's mistakes. Hopefully this

22 Council, this Council, which fortunately has many Mayor

23 friendly Council people, hopefully they can convince

24 him to drop this wasteful endeavor.

25 Now, on an unrelated union issue, it


1 has been brought to my attention that there may be a

2 very few DPW employees who do not reside in Scranton,

3 but they are paid by the city.

4 This does not refer to Mr. Parker,

5 incidentally. I would like a letter sent to the legal

6 department and the human resources department

7 requesting that HR verify DPW employee residences and

8 that Attorney Farrell address this contract violation,

9 if indeed it does exist.

10 It is also a violation of File of

11 Council No. 47 of 1980, regarding residency of a

12 bargaining union member.

13 I request a response from HR by

14 Thursday, April 13, since this issue is eroding the

15 morale of the DPW workers who reside in Scranton and

16 are forced to pay a much higher wage tax than those

17 that are residing outside the city.

18 As Mrs. Gatelli noted earlier, I

19 attended meetings at the Tripp Park and Green Ridge

20 neighborhoods this week, and both groups are work ing

21 diligently to resolve their individual problems.

22 The Green Ridge residents remain

23 undecided about the street vacation and zoning change

24 for a storage shed facility and will meet yet again

25 with the developer before Council casts its final vote


1 on these matters.

2 And as we did for Minooka residents, I

3 hope Council will abide by the decision of the Green

4 Ridge residents.

5 I recently read about the possibility

6 of a methane pipeline extending from the landfill in

7 Taylor to a utility plant in Archbald. If such an

8 alliance pipeline indeed is installed, can or will the

9 municipalities and boroughs it traverses collect a

10 surcharge on this pipeline?

11 This revenue generator would

12 significantly benefit, not only Scranton, but Throop,

13 as well, and perhaps Mr. Parker and Attorney Farrell

14 could investigate this matter.

15 And lastly, I have this week's

16 citizens' requests. The walking trails from Green

17 Ridge Little League to Crowley Park had not been

18 maintained, they're washed out and hazardous in many

19 areas. Please address as soon as possible.

20 1511 South Irving Avenue, please

21 request that police inspect a junk truck parked on the

22 street and the inspection expired on 505.

23 3244 Pittston Avenue, windows in the

24 house are broken and an empty lot next to the address,

25 three is an abandoned trailer which has been parked


1 there since the 1960s.

2 Residents of Parker Street and

3 Boulevard Avenue request that the DPW dredge the river.

4 There are currently small islands where trees are

5 growing.

6 A letter to Mr. Parker, the Green Ridge

7 residents would like to know what protection from

8 flooding will be provided on the Parker Street side of

9 the river. Please return a written response.

10 Also, has the pothole machine been

11 repaired? If so, when can we expect to use it?

12 Replace traffic signs, 25 miles per hour speed limits,

13 on boulevard avenue and Olyphant Street. These speed

14 limit signs were removed when the recycling center was

15 built.

16 2126 North Washington Avenue, tenants

17 reside on the first, second and third floors, however,

18 there is no exit from the third floor apartment.

19 Reverse the street signs on the pole at

20 the corner of Parker Street and Boulevard Avenue. They

21 cannot be seen when traveling down Boulevard Avenue,

22 and this has not been corrected yet.

23 Fill a pothole at Olive Street and

24 Quincy Avenue. The cold patch is deteriorating, and

25 the pothole, of course, grows deeper.


1 One resident asked, Is the city paying

2 for the demolition of the building at the bottom of

3 Moosic Street across from Krispy Creme?

4 Also, across from the Chamberlain plant

5 and adjacent to the flood control project, sidewalks

6 are littered with leaves and garbage. Please send the

7 leaf vacuum truck to clear these sidewalks.

8 Also, and inspector was out to the 400

9 block of Honesdale again. He left a notice on March 27

10 that the owner has approximately 48 hours to clean up

11 or a possible citation will be issued.

12 And 1511 South Irving Avenue was

13 cleared of debris, most tires and feces, and I

14 particularly want to thank both inspectors, Mr. Cortez

15 and Mr. Liptai for jobs very well done.

16 And one last comment that may be of

17 interest to some of the speakers tonight, as you were

18 discussing attorneys' fees and arbitration awards, et

19 cetera, I perused the 2006 budget, and I noticed that

20 for the calendar year financial year 2006, only $80,000

21 has been allocated for court awards.

22 So, obviously I think my theories have

23 solid ground, in that, the administration really has no

24 intention of paying these arbitration awards, at least

25 in financial year 2006. That's it.


1 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Mrs. Fanucci.

2 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I want to thank

3 everybody for having us in South Side. We love it

4 here. And this has been fun on the road. It gives us

5 a little more atmosphere. And we saw a few people come

6 tonight that probably would not have come to Council

7 chambers, and that's always nice.

8 Earlier Lee Morgan had gotten up, and

9 Mrs. Gatelli had made a motion about a program for

10 whatever park, Nay Aug, I believe you said Connell -

11 what park did you say?

12 MS. GATELLI: Weston Field.

13 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Weston Field.

14 Okay. I have been in constant communication trying to

15 get an Art in the Park Program together.

16 I already have a few private donors who

17 are willing to put money in for the Art in the Park

18 program. This is going to incorporate acting, music

19 and all arts. It's probably not going to be the same

20 type of program, remember making, like, the little

21 macro may stuff and the potholders, you know, we used

22 to do all of that, every one of us. It's going to be a

23 little but more in tune to the art itself.

24 So, that is definitely in the works.

25 And the money, hopefully I could see more donors


1 coming. See, I can raise money in other ways, not just

2 for me, but for other people hoping that we can bring

3 money into the city.

4 So, if anybody has any interest in

5 helping us with the Art in the Park program, it is a

6 wonderful gift. This is going to be for all of the

7 children in the city. It is not for a select few.

8 We're hoping that maybe we can

9 incorporate it with the way the Boys and Girls Club

10 does their program and maybe do something to help it

11 jive together. So, this is something that I'm glad we

12 already brought it up. I was not going to actually

13 speak on it for two more weeks until I had everything

14 together, but it is something I've been working very

15 hard on, and that's all I have. Thank you.

16 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

17 Mr. McTiernan.

18 MR. MCTIERNAN: Thank you,

19 Mrs. Gatelli. First of all, I'd like to thank

20 Mr. Osborne for accommodating us with that information.

21 I look forward to getting it. Thanks again. I

22 appreciate you repeatedly coming back. It's a good

23 dialogue, and we'll probably get the right decision

24 made, so thank you.

25 Second of all, I'd like to thank and


1 congratulate Ms. Gatelli on bringing the meetings to

2 the neighborhood. This is a great showing, so thanks

3 to South Scranton and thank you for Mrs. Gatelli.

4 It was evidenced by -- it was almost

5 like a horse race trying to find a parking spot out

6 there today, so that's probably evidence, when you

7 can't find parking, you've got a pretty good thing

8 going.

9 I have an issue, Kay. I'm afraid I

10 need to ask you a few things. There is a city

11 landowner that has a property in West Scranton, and

12 Mike Wallace was involved in this, and the person tells

13 me, and I'm not going to say their name over the air,

14 but they have three apartments and they're trying to

15 verify for a closing purposes on a sale of the property

16 that it is three units.

17 And the person tells me that the city

18 zoning will not verify that there are three units

19 there. She tells me that they've paid three garbage

20 fees, one for each unit, three separate sewer bills and

21 three separate water bills.

22 So, if I leave you the name and the

23 address of that person, maybe can we maybe contact

24 Mike Wallace and find out if I'm getting the right

25 information, and if that's all accurate, maybe we need


1 to verify that, because we are holding up the

2 transaction.

3 MS. GARVEY: Okay.

4 MR. MCTIERNAN: Thank you. Kay, there

5 was a lot of questions asked today, and I don't always

6 have enough time to follow all this stuff up, so

7 unfortunately I have you, and if I could rely on you,

8 I'd appreciate it. Can you please find out for me the

9 status of the deposit on Nay Aug, which Mrs. Evans did

10 indicate we do believe that it was spent for

11 Mr. Kalinosky and the landscaping, but if you can find

12 that out, I'd appreciate it through the business

13 office.

14 And it is worth note and worth

15 questioning on the appealed contracts, I have some

16 questions. Someone asked tonight about the attorneys'

17 fees, what those may cost, and I have a question

18 regarding those contracts under appeal.

19 Are we -- is it customary for us to be

20 in a position that if indeed we lose the appeal, is

21 there an interest or is there a back penalty? So, if

22 you could maybe determine -- I see our Solicitor Minora

23 shaking his head.

24 MR. MINORA: I can tell you that off

25 the top of my head. There's a specific statute dealing


1 with post judgment and post award interest.

2 MR. MCTIERNAN: So, it won't cost us --

3 MR. MINORA: If you raise that 6

4 percent, you're not compounded legally.

5 MR. MCTIERNAN: Thank you. And --

6 well, then that's one less thing you can strike from

7 your list. I guess we can do some math and find out 6

8 percent times that, what that might cost us. Thank

9 you.

10 And I guess the last thing I'll track

11 down on my own, I'll make few phone calls, but a Denise

12 Curry contacted me regarding any zoning requirements

13 for a ciber school of some sort, cosmetology school, I

14 believe, but I will research that with Mr. Fiorini

15 myself. And I think that's all. Thank you,

16 Mrs. Gatelli.

17 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Courtright.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yes. Last week I

19 brought up about Birney Avenue being made a one way,

20 and I spoke to Representative Cawley this weekend, and

21 he sent -- he wasn't happy with the response that he

22 got, as we mentioned here last week, and he spoke or

23 wrote a letter, I should say, to the governor's office,

24 and the governor's office in turn sent one to PennDOT.

25 So, there's going to be a meeting held,


1 we don't know when, of all the people involved to try

2 to get this issue straightened out and hopefully make

3 Birney Avenue one lane. I think I might have said one

4 way, one lane.

5 Yesterday, I think Mrs. Evans just

6 brought this up, but yesterday I asked Kay to take a

7 look at see and see if we could talk to Mr. Fiorini

8 about 3244 Pittston Avenue, I don't know if that's the

9 one you brought up or not, Janet, yeah, so she's in the

10 process of looking at that trailer that's on there. I

11 went and looked at it. It's pretty bad. So, maybe

12 somebody can -- Kay's on that already.

13 I had a request, and I went and looked.

14 It's about paving, Kay, the 100 block of Lafayette

15 Street, and also, this thing I will take care of

16 myself, it's been a problem over the years to pull out

17 onto Main Avenue from the 100 block of Lafayette, but

18 now we seem to have trucks parking very close to the

19 intersection, and I think we're going to have a problem

20 there, so I'll take care of that myself with the

21 police.

22 And today on the corner of Garfield and

23 Bullwer, there's two catch basins, and they're just

24 completely packed, Kay, with dirt. There's no way any

25 water is getting down there, so if they could take a


1 look at that.

2 And the $52 tax, my son works at

3 Gerrity's, and I want to say there are some companies,

4 and Gerrity's is one of them, that's taking $13 a

5 paycheck, as opposed to going ahead and taking the $52,

6 because I don't think he'd have a paycheck they took

7 the $52 off him. So, there are some companies that are

8 doing it.

9 And I would just like to thank this, I

10 don't know your name, that set up the mics for us

11 tonight.

12 MS. GATELLI: Jackson.

13 MR. COURTRIGHT: Jackson, thank you for

14 doing all the work to get us going here today, so I'd

15 like to thank him for that. And I believe that's it.

16 Thank you.

17 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. I'd just like

18 to make a few comments. Terry and I did meet with the

19 Mayor about the pension, and I still feel that we

20 should abide by the decision of the board. It has been

21 that way for 21 years, and I know I get a pension, and

22 I'm in a union, and if the board decides that my

23 pension should be a certain way, I would hope that the

24 superintendent certainly won't stick his nose in to try

25 to control that.


1 Those people have been there, they are

2 experienced, and they're looking out for their own

3 money, and I think that they have a right to chose who

4 they want. And it is someone who is responsible. So,

5 that's how I feel about that.

6 The police arbitration, Kay is going to

7 find out how many there are, how much they add up to,

8 how much the lawyers fees are, and then we will be able

9 to tell everyone that when we get that information.

10 MR. COURTRIGHT: I think you need to

11 get her an extra person in her office.

12 MS. GATELLI: I think so, too. I don't

13 give her very much. So, you guys will have to wait

14 your turn. She's going to take the one that gives her

15 the least first.

16 MR. MCTIERNAN: Then I got back -- she

17 owes me then.

18 MS. GARVEY: No. I think Jay owes you.

19 MR. MCTIERNAN: I think you're right.

20 MS. GARVEY: But I think all the

21 Council members want that information, and I think it's

22 important that we have it. I agree with whoever said

23 that they should be negotiated and settled when the

24 time is to settle them.

25 They're going to cost us an awful lot


1 of money. And my two little grandsons were here

2 tonight, and I think they're going to be paying the

3 freight. So, I do feel badly about that. I wish that

4 the Mayor would negotiate in good faith with these

5 unions.

6 Everyone doesn't always feel the same

7 way about public workers. They always want to think

8 that public workers get too much. Well, until you walk

9 in those shoes, you don't know what it's all about.

10 You have no idea.

11 So, I think that we should negotiate

12 with these people and give them a fair increase.

13 Everybody gets an increase, cost of living increase.

14 And that's not unreasonable.

15 And I think that he's not paying them

16 because he doesn't have the money to pay them, and

17 that's probably one of the biggest reasons why they're

18 being appealed, because where is he going to get all

19 that money from?

20 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't know. I don't

21 want to disagree with you, but we seem to find money

22 for other things, and I just think by not having

23 contracts for all this time, that the morale in the

24 departments is at an all-time low because of that.

25 And I asked a few weeks back, and I'll


1 ask again, that we get some kind of contracts with both

2 the police and fire and let's move on. Let's move on.

3 I know the city is in financial

4 straits, but I think the unions are willing to give.

5 You know, Mr. Ancherani said earlier they've given and

6 given. I think they're willing to give again now. If

7 we don't talk, we're not going to get anywhere.

8 Keep appealing these decisions, I don't

9 think is the way to go, I really don't.

10 MS. GATELLI: No, I don't either.

11 That's what I'm saying.

12 MS. EVANS: I think, also, according to

13 the award, it isn't completely one sided. There is the

14 removal of nine positions. There is an increase in the

15 deductibles for health insurance for individuals,

16 married couples, families, sol it is a very balanced

17 approach. It seems like an inordinate amount of money,

18 but it adds up when you have had not a penny of an

19 increase since 2002, and I don't think there are too

20 many people who can say that.

21 Also, though, my request earlier was

22 that maybe even if Mrs. Gatelli, if you might be able

23 to talk with the Mayor and persuade him, convince him,

24 condole him or at least express your opinion to him

25 about dropping an appeal of these arbitrations.


1 MS. GATELLI: Well, I certainly would

2 be willing to do that, and I would request that

3 Attorney Minora accompany me. I always like him next

4 to me.

5 MR. MINORA: I'd be glad to.

6 MS. EVANS: Because, you know, as we

7 learned tonight, it's not just a matter of the

8 attorneys' fees, but it's also a matter of compounded

9 interest and penalties daily, and this could go on for

10 years.

11 MS. GATELLI: Absolutely. Kay, would

12 you see if you can set up a meeting for Amil and I with

13 the Mayor?

14 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Let's do it in a

15 caucus, Kay.

16 MS. GATELLI: If anyone else would like

17 to come, one other person can come, if they'd like to.

18 Maybe you'd want to come. That's your committee.

19 MR. COURTRIGHT: What's that? I was

20 talking to Mr. --

21 MS. GATELLI: If we go to a meeting.

22 Well, stop talking.

23 MR. COURTRIGHT: I was discussing the

24 union contracts with Mr. McTiernan.

25 MS. GATELLI: I'm just teasing. I'm


1 just teasing. If you want to come to the meeting --

2 MR. COURTRIGHT: I wanted to ask a

3 question. This is what we were talking about, if you

4 must know, no. How do we force the administration to

5 deal with the unions? Mr. Minora, who's paying and how

6 are they being paid, the attorneys, to fight these

7 appeals if we've only budgeted $80,000?

8 MR. MINORA: Well --

9 MS. EVANS: Well, Mr. Courtright, I

10 think that means the court award would be what is paid

11 out.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm talking about the

13 attorneys that are fighting for the city.

14 MS. EVANS: I have never seen

15 information on that, but I have long suspected that it

16 falls under the category of professional services, but

17 then when you consider all of the professional services

18 that the city contracts for, it doesn't add up

19 financially.

20 You know, it seems to be a much smaller

21 amount than it would appear to actually total,

22 considering how many are falling under that umbrella of

23 professional services.

24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Well, I guess once we

25 get all the figures, we'll know.


1 MS. GATELLI: Once we get the figures,

2 we'll have a better idea.

3 MR. COURTRIGHT: If they don't have any

4 money to fight with, we can't fight anymore.

5 MR. MINORA: Mr. Courtright, I didn't

6 hear your question. Could you ask me that question

7 again?

8 MR. COURTRIGHT: Are you joking or --

9 MR. MINORA: No. I didn't get your

10 question.

11 MS. EVANS: He doesn't listen.

12 MR. MINORA: I was listening carefully.

13 MR. COURTRIGHT: I was wondering who is

14 paying -- where the money is coming from to pay all

15 these attorneys to continue fight these arbitration

16 awards which the unions keep on winning. Where is that

17 money coming from?

18 MR. MINORA: I'm sure it's a budgeted

19 amount. I don't know what the amount is for

20 professional services. I don't know the line item in

21 the budget, I'm sure there is one. I don't know the

22 amount and if it's exceeded.

23 MS. GATELLI: Okay. And just the last

24 thing I want to say is that you all know that Council

25 is forming their own paving list that we're going to


1 forward to Mr. Parker. I would say we would like your

2 requests in in another week, because I'd like to get it

3 to him so that we can do some paving in the spring as

4 soon as possible.

5 So, anyone having a paving request,

6 please send it in as soon as possible. And that's all

7 I have. Thank you.

8 MS. EVANS: Just one more thing. I

9 found professional services under expenditures summary

10 by account of the 2006 operating budget. It is

11 Account 4201, and the total for 2006 is $718,055, which

12 is up slightly from the 2005 revised operating budget,

13 which allocated $680,470.

14 MR. COURTRIGHT: That's professional

15 services in general?

16 MS. EVANS: Professional services,

17 right. $4201.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: Right. They could put

19 a whole list of things in there, right?

20 MS. EVANS: That, you know, has never

21 been broken down before for us, never since we sat

22 here.

23 MR. COURTRIGHT: All right. I think we

24 need that broken down so we can see where this money is

25 going.


1 MS. EVANS: Well, that would be very

2 interesting, if you can trust the figures.

3 MR. COURTRIGHT: Maybe Mrs. Novembrino

4 could show us the expenditures out of that account,

5 right, out of professional services so far.

6 MS. EVANS: From the date of the first

7 arbitration award?

8 MR. COURTRIGHT: Well, if we took last

9 year's and then we could dissect that a little bit and

10 take this year's. It's been continual.

11 MS. EVANS: Oh, I know. I know.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: So, maybe she would be

13 able to do that, show us the expenditures out of that

14 account.

15 MS. EVANS: And while we are on,

16 though, a financial matter, I have requested of Rossi &

17 Son, this is their final year to conduct the

18 independent audit of Scranton City Council, if they

19 could please provide preliminary figures in April, I

20 believe, of 2006, in the hopes that we're better able

21 to get a forecast on the budget, and hopefully they'll

22 be able to provide that audit in May or June of this

23 year. We can hope, anyway.

24 But certainly the preliminary figures

25 would be of great assistance, especially for


1 Mr. McTiernan.

2 And, in fact, if you remember,

3 Mr. McTiernan, when we had a caucus with Mr. Rossi, he

4 did agree that he could do that for us without any

5 extra charge, so if you could look into that, please.

6 Okay. If nobody has anything else,

7 Mrs. Garvey.











18 $77,700.00 FROM 2002 HOME ADMINISTRATION, $414,000.00


20 FROM 2004 HOME ADMINISTRATION, $123,632.00 FROM 2005


22 $1,000,000.00 TO 2005 SOUTHSIDE/CEDAR AVE. STRATEGY


24 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll

25 entertain a motion that Item 5-B be introduced into its


1 proper committee.

2 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.


4 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

5 MS. EVANS: Yes. Kay, I'd like to get

6 an accounting from OECD of the funds in each one of the

7 programs administered through their office.

8 We often receive information regarding

9 CDBG/UDAG/RERE, et cetera, but there are many accounts

10 here it appears that we are unaware of, and I know I

11 for one, was unaware that this much cash was available.

12 Whenever, you know, we contact OECD,

13 Ms. Hailstone seem to infer that nothing is available.

14 So, I would like for all of Council a clean clear

15 listing of exactly what they have in every account for

16 every program that runs through OECD.

17 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else? All those

18 in favor, signify by saying aye.

19 MS. EVANS: Aye.




23 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

24 have it and so moved.










8 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll

9 entertain a motion that 5-C be introduced.

10 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.


12 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

13 those in favor.

14 MS. EVANS: Aye.




18 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

19 have it and so moved.










3 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll

4 entertain a motion that 5-D be introduced.

5 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.


7 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

8 those in favor, signify by saying aye.

9 MS. EVANS: Aye.




13 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

14 have it and so moved.







21 MS. GATELLI: You've heard reading by

22 title of 6-A, what is your pleasure?

23 MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item 6-A

24 pass reading by title.

25 MR. MCTIERNAN: Second.


1 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

2 MS. EVANS: Yes. I just wanted to make

3 a very quick announcement regarding 6-A and 6-B.

4 Although a vote is taken tonight, this is a procedural

5 move so that we can advance this ordinance into seventh

6 order for a final vote which will be cast next

7 Thursday, April 6. Thank you. We'll also be

8 completing a public hearing that was begun last week

9 and remains unfinished.

10 And so, for all of the viewers within

11 the Green Ridge area, this merely moves the legislation

12 from sixth to seventh order. It is not the final vote

13 on either of these pieces of legislation.

14 You will still be able to conduct your

15 meeting on Tuesday night and then come to your final

16 decision, and that, I'm sure, will be presented to City

17 Council prior to our final vote.

18 MS. GATELLI: Any other questions?

19 All those in favor, signify by saying aye.

20 MS. EVANS: Aye.




24 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

25 have it and so moved.












11 MS. GATELLI: You've heard reading by

12 title of Item 6-B, what is your pleasure?

13 MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item 6-B

14 pass reading by title.


16 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

17 those in favor, signify by saying aye.

18 MS. EVANS: Aye.




22 MS. GATELLI: Aye. The ayes have it

23 and so moved.







4 18508, FOR THE SUM OF $2,000.00.

5 MS. GATELLI: You've heard reading by

6 title of Item 6-C, what is your pleasure?

7 MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item 6-C

8 pass reading by title.


10 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

11 those in favor, signify by saying aye.

12 MS. EVANS: Aye.




16 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

17 have it and so moved.






23 OF $3,500.00.

24 MS. GATELLI: You've heard reading by

25 title of Item 6-D, what is your pleasure?


1 MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item 6-D

2 pass reading by title.


4 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

5 those in favor, signify by saying aye.

6 MS. EVANS: Aye.




10 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

11 have it and so moved.







18 EXPIRE ON JUNE 1, 2010.

19 MS. GATELLI: As chairperson for the

20 committee on rules, I recommend final passage of 7-A.

21 MR. COURTRIGHT: Seconded.

22 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Roll

23 call.

24 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

25 MS. EVANS: Yes.


1 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.


3 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.


5 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


7 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

8 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare

9 Item 7-A legally and lawfully adopted. Do I have a

10 motion to adjourn.

11 MR. COURTRIGHT: Motion to adjourn.


13 MS. GATELLI: Meeting adjourned. Thank

14 you all for coming.













1 C E R T I F I C A T E


3 I hereby certify that the proceedings and

4 evidence are contained fully and accurately in the

5 notes taken by me on the hearing of the above cause and

6 that this copy is a correct transcript of the same

7 to the best of my ability.



11 Official Court Reporter