6 Held:

7 Thursday, March 16, 2006



10 Time:

11 6:30 p.m.



14 Location:

15 Council Chambers

16 Scranton City Hall

17 340 North Washington Avenue

18 Scranton, Pennsylvania





23 Lisa M. Graff, RMR

24 Court Reporter





























1 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Please stand for

2 the Pledge Of Allegiance. Please remain standing for a

3 moment of reflection. Roll call, please.

4 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

5 MS. EVANS: Here.

6 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.

7 MS. FANUCCI: Here.

8 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.


10 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


12 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

13 MS. GATELLI: Here. We'll dispense

14 with the reading of the minutes. And tonight we have a

15 proclamation for a football player from West Scranton

16 High School. Asa, if you would like to come up with

17 your mom and your coach. Anyone else that would like

18 to come down can.

19 Whereas, the Council of the City of

20 Scranton is desirous of honoring Asa Lucas, who is the

21 son of Robert and Lisa Lucas and is the captain of the

22 West Scranton High School Football Team.

23 Asa had a season record of 35

24 receptions for 640 yards, ten touchdowns, five

25 interceptions, one interception returned for a


1 touchdown and one point return for a touchdown.

2 Some of Asa's accomplishments have

3 enabled him to be selected as First Team All Lackawanna

4 Football Conference Wide Receiver and second team all

5 Lackawanna Football Conference Defensive Back, as well

6 as being selected as first team all region wide

7 receiver for the Scranton Times Tribune, WNEP-TV's

8 Super 16 Dream Team and Fox 56 Sport Athlete of the

9 Week, and also the recipient of the Kane Award for

10 2005.

11 Asa was also a two-year letterman for

12 the track team participation in the long jump, high

13 hurdles and 4 by 100 relay team.

14 He's involved in many extracurricular

15 activities, such as the Red Cross Club, SADD Club,

16 Tomorrow's Leaders, Special Olympics, Student Council,

17 and the Spanish Club, just to name a few.

18 Upon graduating from West Scranton High

19 School, Asa plans to attend Fordham University in New

20 York, for which he has been awarded a full scholarship

21 and is interested in the study of business

22 administration.

23 Whereas, the teachers, students and

24 administrators of West Scranton High School are very

25 proud of Asa Lucas.


1 Therefore, be it resolved that Scranton

2 City Council wishes to congratulate Asa Lucas, his

3 parents, coaches and teachers for their outstanding

4 achievement and wish him success in all his future

5 endeavors.

6 Be it further resolved that this

7 proclamation be made a permanent part of the minutes of

8 this Council as a lasting tribute to Asa Lucas.

9 Congratulations. This is Asa's mom, and this is his

10 coach, Mike DeAntona. Thank you very much.

11 MR. LUCAS: I'd like to say thank you

12 to the West Scranton Football Team and the whole

13 community, the City Council, Mrs. Gatelli,

14 Mr. Courtright for awarding me with this proclamation.

15 Thanks.

16 MS. GATELLI: Very good. Before we

17 start the meeting, I'd also like to make another

18 motion. We have two more students, and I promise this

19 is the end of the students. We're not going to be

20 accepting any more applicants until next year.

21 It's really rewarding, though, to see

22 this many children that are interested in the

23 government and city business.

24 So, I'd like to make a motion to

25 appoint Michael Benedict, stand up, Michael, and


1 Katrina Organ. They're students from Bishop Hannon.

2 And I make a motion that they be appointed to the task

3 force.

4 MS. EVANS: Second.

5 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

6 MS. EVANS: Yes. Katrina, I must say

7 that you are the answer to many people's dreams. I

8 have been E-mailed more times than I can tell you from

9 citizens of Scranton who wanted to know why with a

10 female majority on City Council, not one lovely young

11 lady had a seat on the Junior Council, so a very

12 special welcome to you, and to you, too, sir. You're

13 wonderful additions.

14 Oh, and, also, I'm an alumna of Bishop

15 Hannon, so I'm particularly please to see yo here.

16 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else on the

17 question? All in favor.

18 MS. EVANS: Aye.




22 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

23 have it and so moved. Welcome. All right, Mrs.

24 Garvey.

25 MS. GARVEY: For Clerk's Notes tonight,


1 there's a few things that I can report on responses

2 that we received.

3 First to begin with from George Parker

4 for a request of stop sign at Ruth Avenue and Detty

5 Street, he has -- after his evaluation, he said that

6 the sign was warranted on Detty Street.

7 The next one was for Marion Street and

8 Gardner Avenue. Marion Street has a four-leg

9 intersection. He said there are vehicles that are

10 parked which obstruct the site distance for motorists

11 passing through this intersection, therefore, in his

12 opinion the stop sign is warranted to put stop signs to

13 be installed on Gardner Avenue, which will create a

14 four-way stop intersection.

15 Marion Street and Nay Aug Avenue, he

16 said Marion Street T-intersects with Nay Aug Avenue at

17 a skewed angle. There are currently two stop signs on

18 Nay Aug Avenue. There's adequate site distance for

19 motorists that are stopped at this intersection,

20 therefore, in his opinion there is no additional signs

21 warranted.

22 Mulberry Street and Quincy Avenue,

23 Mulberry Street at this intersection is state highway,

24 and, therefore, out of the jurisdiction of the City of

25 Scranton. There is currently a stop sign on Quincy


1 Avenue, and the Pennsylvania Department of

2 Transportation will have to make the decision on

3 whether or not to place a stop sign on Mulberry Street.

4 And in his experience, stop signs will only be

5 permitted on the low volume local roadway, not on the

6 primary high volume state traffic route.

7 MS. EVANS: Kay, if I might interrupt.

8 I believe that was suggested by Mr. Barron, and he

9 contacted me since the evening at which he appeared at

10 Council indicating that he had made a mistake. IT was

11 Quincy and Myrtle Street that required the stop sign.

12 So, if we can contact Mr. Parker and let him know that

13 the Mulberry Street intersection is no longer an issue,

14 but rather if he could please look at Mertyle.

15 MS. GARVEY: Okay.

16 MS. EVANS: Thank you. The next one

17 was Mr. Courtright, you were concerned about the Elm

18 Street viaduct, you had asked for that. Some trees

19 were taken down over there.

20 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you.

21 MS. GARVEY: And let's see. The next

22 one was, I believe, Parker and Boulevard Avenue, he

23 feels that that does not need to be a four-way stop

24 sign. There are three there now. The fourth one would

25 be where you're coming down Boulevard Avenue, and he


1 said that would pretty much just cause a danger there.

2 He said it really was never a four-way stop, it was

3 only a three way.

4 And he said when you're coming down

5 there, it would be better it not had a stop sign,

6 because of in bad weather, you would have to slide

7 through and it'd create more danger than safety.

8 MS. EVANS: Yes. In fact, Mrs. Cook

9 this evening said something quite similar, that

10 actually there had been a four-way stop sign perhaps

11 25 years ago or more, but that because of the pitch

12 there, it oftentimes will flood and that freezes and it

13 becomes a safety hazard.

14 MS. GARVEY: Right. That's what he

15 felt.

16 MS. EVANS: So, thank you, Kay.

17 MS. GARVEY: Yep. And then the next

18 issue was, Mrs. Evans, you requested sidewalks Wilber

19 Street, Charles Street. We sent that down to

20 Mr. Parker for his evaluation, and he just pretty much

21 said that the city really isn't in the practice of

22 putting sidewalks in like that. He said, unless, of

23 course, if they were -- if the city received a grant,

24 and part of that grant money was earmarked for devotion

25 to sidewalks or if it was part of a project, such as


1 the North Scranton project that had the sidewalks on

2 North Main Avenue and East Market and West Market

3 Streets. When it's part of a project like that,

4 sometimes they're done, but not as a rule for just

5 sidewalks to be in. And then the maintenance of

6 sidewalks naturally are, as we all know, the residents'

7 responsibility.

8 So, that was his response for that.

9 And we did receive from Mr. Wintermantle a response

10 regarding your issues with the breakdown of the terms

11 of usage and the revenue and expenses.

12 I did put that in your boxes, but you

13 may not have had a chance to look at it yet.

14 MS. EVANS: No, I haven't.

15 MS. GARVEY: And just to go over it

16 quickly, he said in -- let's see. In January of '06,

17 the revenue was $18,133; expenses, $18,915.

18 February 2, $25,039 revenue; $14,671 for expenses, and

19 the usage was $2,699 in January, $4,072 in February, a

20 total of $6,771. And that copy is in your boxes, as

21 well.

22 MS. EVANS: Thank you.

23 MS. GARVEY: And that's all I have.

24 MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Mrs. Garvey.

25 I just have a few things. First I got a call from the


1 Vice President of the Taxpayers Association, and she

2 wanted me to announce that at their meeting on

3 Wednesday, March 22 at seven o'clock, Commissioner

4 Cordaro will be one of the speakers at that particular

5 meeting.

6 The next thing is the fundraiser at the

7 Dante Sunday, 12:30 to five for Jack Williams, the

8 Sewer Authority person that has passed away. It's a

9 fundraiser for medical expenses.

10 I want to thank Mr. Parker and

11 Charlie Matthews for repairing the inlets at the 400

12 and 500 block of Race Street.

13 The Elm Street viaduct was cleaned

14 today. I couldn't get to work on time because I had to

15 go all the way around. The street was blocked, and

16 they had several big pieces of machinery and chippers

17 and they cleaned all of the viaduct going up Elm

18 Street.

19 Keyser Avenue, there was a problem

20 there. There was a person living in an empty lot right

21 at the corner of Keyser Avenue and the Morgan Highway,

22 and he was bringing garbage there every day, and, in

23 fact, he was sleeping there, and the lot became like a

24 garbage dump.

25 So, they had to contact PennDOT,


1 because they own the property, and post it, and the

2 city has cleaned it up this week, so the neighbors

3 there are quite happy about that.

4 The 500 block of Lackawanna Avenue, I

5 got a lot of information on that project. I met with

6 John Blake from the Governor's office yesterday, and I

7 really don't want to get into it all, because I know

8 we're all very anxious to leave here.

9 So, if anybody wants to know anything

10 about that project, I will stay after the meeting and

11 discuss it with you. It is a $20 million project, and

12 the State, the Governor, has contributed $9 million to

13 that project.

14 We asked last week if the $577,000 UDAG

15 money and the $550,000 for Lackawanna Avenue are

16 separate monies. That question was brought up last

17 week. Potholes were filled on South Irving and Pear,

18 Stafford and Kane, Cemetery Road, Hilltop and Skyview.

19 Catch basins were cleaned on Prospect

20 and O'Hara. And I haven't had much success with the

21 problem over on Cameron Avenue where there's a

22 flooding. One gentleman's home gets flooded in the

23 cellar every time it rains, at least three to four

24 inches of water, and I haven't really gotten too far

25 with that project, so I'd like to make a motion so that


1 we can send a letter from all of Council to Mr. Parker

2 that he check into the problem at the corner of North

3 Cameron and Lafayette and see if something can be done

4 to rectify that situation.


6 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

7 MS. EVANS: Yes. That's been an issue

8 for many, many years, according to the residents. I

9 think maybe it was even Mr. Courtright that brought it

10 up. I've brought it up a number of times in the last

11 two years. Many letters have been written to

12 Mr. Parker about it.

13 It actually becomes a lake in the area,

14 and the resident had provided photos of the flooding

15 conditions, and those were forwarded to Mr. Parker many

16 months ago, and still nothing has happened, so

17 hopefully a nice nudge may prove profitable.

18 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else on the

19 question? All in favor?

20 MS. EVANS: Aye.




24 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

25 have it and so moved. I just have one more thing.


1 I've gotten several calls over the past weeks of people

2 that are looking at their taxes, and they have found

3 that under the county portion of the bill, there is

4 something knew there that they did not is know what it

5 was, it's called an educational tax.

6 So, I called the county today, and I

7 found out that it was approved last year, and it was

8 included in the 48 percent tax increase. And on last

9 year's bill it wasn't itemized, so you didn't notice

10 it. This year it's itemized, and it's called

11 educational tax.

12 It is for the arts and culture.

13 $250,000 is going to the Masonic Temple, $250,000 is

14 going in the museum, $250,000 is going to the library,

15 and the rest is paying for them to have an office at

16 the county and to give grants to local artists, et

17 cetera.

18 The one mill, it was one mill of a tax,

19 and it generated $1,211,875. But it is a new tax, and

20 it was approved last year. So, for anyone that is

21 wondering what that is, that's what it is. All right.

22 I don't have anything else.

23 MS. EVANS: May I jump in, though,

24 hopefully for two dinner announcements? Once again,

25 there will be a fundraiser this Sunday at the Minooka


1 American Legion for the benefit of Christian Budney.

2 Tickets are $10. I encourage everyone to attend. And

3 I understand, as well, another fundraiser has been

4 organized on April 30 at the Montage ski lodge from

5 11 a.m. to 6 p.m., and it is a spaghetti and meatball

6 dinner, and that will benefit Christian and his family,

7 as well. So, please try to get to one or both of

8 those events.

9 MS. GATELLI: Okay. I said I was done,

10 but I have one more thing. On March the 3rd, there was

11 a saturation patrol in South Scranton, along with the

12 Pennsylvania State Police. There were 51 incidents

13 generated, 27 traffic citations, 14 warnings, five

14 criminal arrests, three warrants were served,

15 confiscation, 17 packs of heroin, seven grams of crack

16 cocaine, $465, one bag of marijuana and three

17 Percocets.

18 So, we're very happy that they're

19 continuing that in South Scranton. We are still having

20 a problem, and hoping that once we get the project

21 underway over there, we can make more of an impact.

22 Thank you. The first speaker is Andy Sbaraglia.

23 MS. GARVEY: Mrs. Gatelli, excuse me

24 for one minute.

25 MS. GATELLI: Yes.


1 MS. GARVEY: I kind of went out of

2 order with Clerk's Notes. I forgot to do 3-A, so I'm

3 going to back up to that right now.

4 MS. GATELLI: Okay. It was,



7 MS. GATELLI: Are there any comments?

8 If not, received and filed. Mr. Sbaraglia.

9 MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia, citizen

10 of Scranton. Fellow Scrantonians, I'm definitely going

11 to talk on the 501 project, even if I have to meet with

12 you after the minutes and go over them all. Of course,

13 I might not see that game, because I really want to get

14 in depth to it.

15 I've got some questions to ask on it,

16 since you've got a lot of information, maybe I don't

17 even have to stay. You already have it. How many

18 buildings does this developer own in that project at

19 this point?

20 MS. GATELLI: He owns three.

21 MR. SBARAGLIA: That means there's

22 what, about ten in that building?

23 MS. GATELLI: There's eleven parcels in

24 the project.

25 MR. SBARAGLIA: And he owns only three


1 of them.

2 MS. GATELLI: He owns three. The city

3 is going to purchase three, and the rest are going to

4 stay with the current owner.

5 MR. SBARAGLIA: The rest are going to

6 stay with the current owner, and how is it going to be

7 developed then? Is the money going to be used to put

8 their fronts on, the same as all the other buildings?

9 MS. GATELLI: Yes, they will

10 participate in the project.

11 MR. SBARAGLIA: And tell me, how much

12 is the city going to get for the three buildings we're

13 going to purchase and why are we purchasing them? Why

14 can't the developer purchase them?

15 MS. GATELLI: I'm not sure about that,

16 Andy.

17 MR. SBARAGLIA: I'm not sure about

18 that, Andy.

19 MS. GATELLI: Well, I would find out,

20 because why are we spending our money and being, as you

21 pointed out -- I thought it was $10 million, but you

22 pointed it out to be $9 million.

23 MS. GATELLI: $9 million.

24 MR. SBARAGLIA: Right.

25 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Mr. Sbaraglia, I


1 can answer that question for you. In order to be able

2 to receive the money from the government, the city does

3 have to put up some type of money, so that is a

4 requirement to be able to get the money that was

5 provided by the governor.

6 MR. SBARAGLIA: Are we going to be

7 reimbursed?

8 MS. GATELLI: For half.

9 MR. SBARAGLIA: Perhaps? That don't

10 mean nothing. Perhaps, you can take that and --

11 MS. GATELLI: For half of the money.

12 MR. SBARAGLIA: Oh, for half of the

13 buildings, okay, not perhaps.

14 MS. GATELLI: The Governor's money

15 doesn't kick in until it's spent, then you're

16 reimbursed.

17 MR. SBARAGLIA: I understand something

18 like that, but I was wondering, the city is going to

19 purchase four buildings you said.

20 MS. GATELLI: Three buildings.

21 MR. SBARAGLIA: Three buildings, okay.

22 Are we going to charge the developer our cost or are we

23 going to purchase the building and give it to them for

24 a dollar?

25 MS. GATELLI: I'm not sure.


1 MR. SBARAGLIA: Well, that's the kind

2 of question you should find out.

3 MS. GATELLI: Well, I will.

4 MR. SBARAGLIA: Okay. And who is going

5 to pay for the eminent domain? I assume the city is

6 going to pay for it. We're going to pay the costs of

7 condemning them buildings.

8 MS. GATELLI: Yes. And then the

9 governor will reimburse ups for half of that amount.

10 MR. SBARAGLIA: Reimburse us or

11 reimburse the developer?

12 MS. GATELLI: He will reimburse the

13 city.

14 MR. SBARAGLIA: For the cost of that?

15 MS. GATELLI: Yes.

16 MR. SBARAGLIA: Is that going to come

17 out of the $9 million?

18 MS. GATELLI: Yes.

19 MR. SBARAGLIA: Why is the loan no

20 interest on this loan? It's a UDAG loan, why is it

21 given at no interest?

22 MS. GATELLI: Because it's the city

23 buying -- purchasing those properties.

24 MR. SBARAGLIA: No, the loan, the loan

25 -- the UDAG loan that you're giving, the $550,000, why


1 is it a no interest loan?

2 MS. GATELLI: That money is going to be

3 used to purchase those properties.

4 MR. SBARAGLIA: Are you assuming that

5 those properties are going to be sold for that half a

6 million dollars or $5 million plus?

7 MS. GATELLI: They must have an idea

8 that that's what it's going to cost.

9 MR. SBARAGLIA: So, it may not

10 necessarily be sold, because if they go through courts

11 and so forth and so on, what buildings are we referring

12 to?

13 MS. GATELLI: I don't know the

14 addresses of those buildings. I looked at the

15 pictures, and I can't figure them out. And I drove by

16 today, and most of them don't have an address on them,

17 so I couldn't figure out which ones they were.

18 MR. SBARAGLIA: Why is he only

19 obligated to spend $2 million over five years out of

20 that $9 million then?

21 MS. GATELLI: Who, the developer?

22 MR. SBARAGLIA: The developer. He's

23 only obligated to spend $2 million out of the $9

24 million. I thought it was --

25 MS. GATELLI: The developer is going to


1 spend $7 to $8 million. That's his piece of the pie.

2 MR. SBARAGLIA: Well, your legislation

3 calls for him to spend only $2 million in five years.

4 MS. GATELLI: That's only on this

5 particular piece of legislation.

6 MR. SBARAGLIA: Are we going to follow

7 through with other pieces of the legislation? Is that

8 what we're saying, this is only to start?

9 MS. GATELLI: Yes. And I'll have to

10 talk to you after the meeting, because it's too complex

11 to discuss.

12 MR. SBARAGLIA: Well, yeah. You know,

13 at the taxpayer's meeting, are you going to attend

14 that?

15 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I'll bring it all

16 with me. And I can make copies of this for you.

17 MR. SBARAGLIA: Right. That would be

18 probably the better, and that way you can still see

19 your game and I can still read all that information. I

20 thank you very much.

21 MS. GATELLI: Stay after and I'll make

22 you copies.


24 MS. GATELLI: Terry Osborne.

25 MR. OSBORNE: Good evening, Council.


1 I'm Terry Osborne. I am one of the fire

2 representatives to the composite pension board, and I'd

3 like to talk a little bit about the contract that we

4 have sent word to the mayor of who we had selected, and

5 I know you people haven't received anything yet.

6 But before I do, Janet, very quickly,

7 you announced the fundraiser at Minooka, this weekend

8 at Minooka is Pat Louvullo, it's two to five.

9 MS. EVANS: Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. That

10 is Pat Louvullo. I'm so sorry.

11 MR. OSBORNE: He is actually a student

12 at Scranton High. He's the son of Sean Louvullo, the

13 officer and Eileen Hurchak, who's a former secretary in

14 our office and now the purchasing clerk. So, that's

15 this weekend at the Minooka Legion.

16 MS. EVANS: I'm sorry. I stand

17 corrected, you're right, but it's still a very, very

18 good event, and I'm hoping people will support it.

19 MR. OSBORNE: Right. Just quickly, I

20 think most of you know there's an ongoing -- there's

21 been some ongoing discussion. I actually checked with

22 Mike Savitsky today.

23 On December 1, we sent a request to the

24 law department to send you guys down legislation with

25 selection of Mellon Bank, who was voted on by the


1 pension board, and nothing has moved on that.

2 As of today, I guess we still don't

3 have anything down here. And while there are

4 discussions going on, I think the first step needs to

5 be for you guys to get this legislation, bring this

6 thing to a head, vote it up, vote it down, and we, the

7 employees on that board, are hoping that you guys can

8 take some action to do that.

9 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Osborne, just to

10 interrupt you for a minute, I was privy to the RFPs for

11 that particular piece of legislation that you're

12 referring to, and it would be for someone to manage the

13 pension fund.

14 And from what I understand, there is a

15 pension board --

16 MR. OSBORNE: Yes, there is.

17 MS. GATELLI: And the pension board

18 voted on this?

19 MR. OSBORNE: Yes, we did. And it

20 passed 7-2 for Mellon to be selected as the trustee and

21 the investment manager for our funds, and that was sent

22 to Rob Farrell December 1.

23 And we've had some discussions. As a

24 matter of fact, I'm sure some of you know in the past,

25 our solicitor and myself met with Amil. Amil, you


1 know, gave us some great help. I've discussed it with

2 several of you people over the last couple of months,

3 and to a degree we're looking to bring it to a head.

4 If there's something legally our board

5 is going to have to do, our board will meet next

6 Wednesday to discuss that, but the first thing would be

7 -- we'd hope for you guys to find out once and for all

8 are you or are you not going to get this legislation

9 down?

10 Because for us to move forward, I think

11 that has to be answered. So we're hoping in some way

12 you guys can, I guess, request that of the mayor.

13 And for several reasons number one, I

14 have with me tonight what I referred to many, many

15 times, and I'd like to make it available if anybody

16 wants one, investment policy guidebook for trustees

17 which is put out by the International Foundation of

18 Employee Benefit Plans.

19 The chapter is legal considerations in

20 the investment of plan sets. And it speaks to the laws

21 in this country which we are held by. And it says its

22 fiduciary shall discharge his duties with respect to a

23 plan solely in the interest of the participants and the

24 beneficiaries of the plan.

25 I'm not going to try to kid you about


1 it. This RFP is in the midst of a lot of political

2 stuff going on in this city.

3 There are people sending down or

4 wanting to send down other people who I believe is

5 strictly based on political contributions. We had that

6 difficulty five years ago. We're hoping to avoid it

7 again.

8 The people who wrote this book, I

9 sometimes laugh about it. I think they know about the

10 City of Scranton, because it further goes on to say, As

11 a trustee of an employment benefit plan, you will be

12 approached by many investment professionals seeking to

13 invest your plan assets. Your decision should not be

14 swayed by who wines and dines you to the best of their

15 ability or takes you golfing, but the investment

16 manager's experience, ability with investment style

17 identified for the position in question.

18 I'll also refer you to the state law.

19 The state law in, I'm not sure which section it is,

20 when it gets into the management of the fund. The

21 aggregated pension fund shall be managed by a board of

22 trustees. That's us. We make the recommendation.

23 Historically for 20 some years now,

24 that recommendation came down. You guys voted on it.

25 I'd like to say Council always voted unanimously on our


1 recommendation.

2 Five years ago, not to go over ancient

3 history, for the $7 million upfront fee, that was not

4 done. That was for the fee five years ago.

5 We don't need $5 million or $7 million

6 now. We need to get back to where our pension board

7 should be. It should be removed from politics.

8 The mayor's race is over from last

9 year, okay? We know there were people who made

10 contributions based on who they felt might win and

11 based on people who thought they would then become

12 somebody's horse in this race. We need to get away

13 from that.

14 So, we're asking if there is some

15 action, that you people can take, and I know my bell is

16 ringing, but if I could have one more minute.

17 Quickly I'd like to tell you a story.

18 MS. GATELLI: Finish up your thoughts.

19 MR. OSBORNE: I bumped into Sally

20 O'Brien, I don't know if many of you people know her.

21 She lives here in the City of Scranton.

22 Several years ago she worked at First

23 Eastern Bank, and I want to say in the late eighties,

24 our RFP was up. I bumped into Sally about six months

25 ago, and she told me she still tells the story that


1 RFP. When she worked at First Eastern Bank and our RFP

2 came out and her bosses thought she was insane to want

3 First Eastern Bank to put in an RFP for our business.

4 It was well known then, or at least

5 they thought, that the City of Scranton was politically

6 wired, that there would not be a chance in the world

7 for First Eastern to get this account, but she begged

8 her bosses and her bosses agreed to let her. They

9 submitted a bid. They won our bid that year.

10 She still tells the story that despite

11 what many, many people thought, at least the composite

12 pension board stayed removed from all that non sense.

13 We need to get away from it again. We need to get a

14 decision made somewhere or other if this legislation is

15 going to go down, and then, again, based on meetings

16 with our attorneys, ultimately our board may have to

17 decide some legal action.

18 But I think, you know, we need to know

19 first is the mayor going to send this down to you, are

20 you people going to vote it up or down? If you do, the

21 mayor may try to veto it and then it will come back for

22 a final vote and then we may have to move from there.

23 But in some way we hope that this

24 Council is going to take some action to bring this

25 thing to a head, and we'd appreciate all the help we


1 can get.

2 MS. EVANS: Mr. Osborne, the members of

3 the pension board who had been appointed by the mayor,

4 are they still seated on the board?

5 MR. OSBORNE: They are. Pending any

6 appeal, there's an April court date, I believe, on

7 that, and I'm not putting Amil on the spot, but I think

8 most attorneys would agree that when an arbitrator

9 makes a decisions, orders all attorneys' fees, orders

10 all costs and orders interest on the award, it's going

11 to get held up in our local court. There's not much

12 doubt about that.

13 So, soon we hope these people will

14 still be removed. But, again, in our discussion with

15 Amil, we could still be in the dilemma that even if

16 this wasn't done until then, if, again, we send that

17 recommendation up with 9-0 vote, if somewhere somebody

18 in this building won't act on it, it just doesn't come

19 to a head.

20 Knock on wood. ASCO, who we have had

21 difficulties with over the years, have agreed to stay

22 on to get us through this process. And they do. It

23 guarantees the pensioners are getting their checks and

24 all that type stuff, which is the most important thing.

25 But it's time to move on.


1 Like I said, the mayor's race is over.

2 We resent the fact that our pension fund was put in the

3 middle of the mayor's race. We want it over with, we

4 want it brought to a head, and I think most of you

5 people on Council who I have spoken to agree, Bobby, I

6 promised you I'd get together and meet with you. My

7 daughter is still playing basketball, so I haven't had

8 a lot of time, but I do hope to sit and talk with you

9 again just to bring you up to date on, you know, on the

10 RFP and that.

11 So, if there is something you guys can

12 do, Judy, either you as the president or anybody, we

13 would appreciate it.

14 MS. GATELLI: Well, I think the only

15 thing that we can do at this juncture, and I do think

16 that you have legal recourse in the matter --

17 MR. OSBORNE: Right.

18 MS. GATELLI: -- is I would make a

19 motion that we as Council send a letter to the mayor

20 requesting him to send down the legislation for Mellon

21 Bank that the pension board has approved. I mean, I

22 don't understand why if a board approves something,

23 it's their money, they're representing the people, I

24 can't understand why it's not being sent down. So, I

25 would make that motion that he send it down or tell us


1 that he's not going to send it down so the pension

2 board would have recourse.

3 MS. EVANS: Second.

4 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

5 MS. EVANS: Yes. But I would like to

6 know why Council cannot write the legislation.

7 MR. OSBORNE: Okay. And I don't want

8 to speak for Amil. We've had discussions, myself, Mike

9 Savitsky met with Amil, and I appreciate you guys

10 having him do that with us.

11 There is open discussion about that,

12 but, again, and this is what I just said to Amil when

13 we had the meeting that day, many times if we go down

14 to The Court over something or other, we have not gone

15 through the other procedures, such as if it's a

16 grievance.

17 They'll say, Well, why didn't you do

18 your grievance-arbitration type thing and you ran right

19 to The Court? You haven't tried all your other

20 remedies.

21 One of the thoughts would be, and I

22 don't want to speak for our solicitor, because he's not

23 here is if we got to The Court and they said, Well, you

24 don't know whether the city are or aren't going to yet.

25 So, again, I think this brings it to a


1 head. It's a yes/no by the mayor, then it's a yes/no

2 by the Council, and then if we have some questions with

3 that, and based on Act 205, the law, we have many

4 questions about this, I think then, and, again, with

5 the two attorneys talking, I think they would take that

6 legal remedy.

7 MS. EVANS: If the mayor will not send

8 down such legislation, what is Council's next step?

9 MR. OSBORNE: I think the next step

10 would be at our board, and we are ready to discuss that

11 at our board meeting on Wednesday. So, really I'd

12 rather not even talk about it here. I think our board

13 would need to make that decision first.

14 MS. GATELLI: But there is some

15 recourse for them.

16 MR. OSBORNE: Right. And, again, I

17 think if you guys set a deadline and we stand by that

18 deadline, and I believe on Wednesday, and, again I

19 can't speak for the whole board, I think on Wednesday

20 we're going to hold discussion with our attorney to,

21 again, bring this thing to a head once and for all.

22 MS. EVANS: That would be the --

23 MR. OSBORNE: The 22nd.

24 MS. GATELLI: Wednesday is the 22nd.

25 MR. OSBORNE: Yeah, that's our board


1 meeting.

2 MS. EVANS: Then could we amend your

3 motion to include a date of March 21 for a definite

4 response?

5 MS. GATELLI: And if Mrs. Garvey could

6 possibly do this A.S.A.P. in the morning, being that we

7 have that deadline on it.

8 MS. EVANS: So, I'll make a motion to

9 amend your motion to include --

10 MS. GATELLI: And I'll second that

11 motion.

12 MS. EVANS: -- the date of March 21 for

13 a response.

14 MS. GATELLI: On the question anyone

15 else? Roll call -- or all in favor.

16 MS. EVANS: Aye.

17 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed?




21 MS. GATELLI: Okay. You got your

22 answer.

23 MR. OSBORNE: Thank you very much.

24 And, again, we appreciate all of Amil's help and we

25 appreciate the ongoing discussion with you people.


1 MS. GATELLI: I think you're right,

2 Terry.

3 MS. EVANS: Well, I frankly can't

4 understand why anyone would be against a decision made

5 by a mention board and the people, I understand,

6 perhaps not those appointed by the mayor, but those who

7 are seated on that board are elected, Mr. Osborne, by

8 their unions, and the manager upon which you had all

9 agreed saves money for the taxpayers of the city, and

10 it is your money, as well, and I would like an answer

11 from someone as to what they find objectionable about

12 that. Someone who voted this down on Council, what is

13 the objection?

14 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't have an

15 objection to sending a motion giving him a deadline to

16 send something down to us, I have an objection to

17 telling them who to send down. It makes no difference

18 --

19 MS. EVANS: We're not telling him who

20 to send down, we're telling him to say yes or no.

21 MS. GATELLI: No, I said Mellon.

22 MS. EVANS: Mellon, yes.

23 MS. GATELLI: I said Mellon, because

24 that's who they voted for.

25 MS. EVANS: His answer then is yes or


1 no.

2 MS. GATELLI: The pension board voted

3 for Mellon.

4 MS. EVANS: Right. So, we are not

5 dictating the choice for the Mayor, we are simply

6 saying, Here is their choice. We would like your

7 response. Will you provide legislation supporting this

8 or will you not. So, it is either yes or no. Now,

9 what is the objection to that?

10 MS. GATELLI: Well, Mrs. Evans, we

11 could go on until --

12 MS. EVANS: There is no answer.

13 MS. GATELLI: -- G-Mac finishes the

14 game tonight. There's no answer, so -- everybody's

15 entitled to their own vote, and I respect everybody's

16 opinion, and, you know, everybody has their reasons for

17 voting a certain way, so --

18 MR. OSBORNE: Like you guys, we'll wait

19 for the response from the Mayor.

20 MS. GATELLI: We'll wait for the

21 response.

22 MR. OSBORNE: Janet, if I could quickly

23 answer your question. There's one member elected by

24 the membership at large and one member elected from the

25 individual board, so there's a total of six employees,


1 plus the Mayor, plus the Mayor. The Mayor can have

2 input on our board, the city controller and the

3 president of City Council, those three by virtue of

4 office.

5 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Thank you.

6 MS. EVANS: And I agree with

7 Mrs. Gatelli, everyone certainly has a right to their

8 opinion, and I can respect that opinion, but I haven't

9 even heard an opinion yet, you know --

10 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mrs. Gatelli, could I

11 go out of turn here for a moment, if everybody would

12 agree?

13 MS. GATELLI: Yes.

14 MR. COURTRIGHT: I would be willing to

15 make a motion that we send a letter to the mayor asking

16 him to send down some kind of legislation to us by the

17 21st, some kind, anything.

18 MR. MCTIERNAN: Second.

19 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

20 MS. EVANS: I don't know why we want to

21 say we'll send down some legislation on any one. The

22 pension board is requesting the response on the firm

23 that they have approved.

24 So, in fact, which what you're doing is

25 changing the rules in the middle of the game and


1 saying, Well, Mayor, you pick someone, and the Mayor

2 has no right to dabble in that decision. He has the

3 right to decide if he intends to send down legislation

4 or not.

5 But certainly, you know, that -- with

6 all due respect, Mr. Courtright, that's a ludicrous

7 suggestion. We're just asking him to say yes or no to

8 this company. And if he says no, then I'm certain

9 he'll suggest someone else.

10 MS. GATELLI: On the question anyone

11 else?

12 MS. GATELLI: All in favor?



15 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? No.

16 MS. EVANS: No.

17 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: No. The motion

18 failed 3-2. Mr. Jackowitz.

19 MR. JACKOWITZ: It seems like the game

20 has started before they even had the first tip off

21 here. Okay. Bill Jackowitz, city resident and

22 taxpayer, registered independent voter, retired United

23 States Air Force.

24 Mrs. Gatelli, I would like to have you

25 discuss the Lackawanna Avenue project next week, since


1 you can't do it this week.

2 The $20 million project and the $9

3 million from the state, that's old news. We need to

4 hear some new news.

5 MS. GATELLI: Okay.

6 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay. Good evening,

7 City Council. I would like to start off the evening by

8 making two requests, first, that Council give me their

9 undivided attention for five minutes; second, that my

10 questions are answered at the conclusion of my talk.

11 During the past week I surveyed 213

12 people in the surrounding area, Scranton residents,

13 prior Scranton residents, residents who never lived in

14 Scranton.

15 The question I asked was, What do you

16 feel is the number one reason Scranton is a distressed

17 city and why did you leave the city? My answers were

18 number one, high taxes; number two, bars, drugs and no

19 safety; number three, corrupt politicians.

20 Those were the three answers from 213

21 people that live in Lackawanna County and Luzerne

22 County for most of their lives.

23 My second topic, My belief is that the

24 city and state governments are required to submit a 10

25 to 20 year forecast for economic developments and new


1 projects so that they can receive grants and loans for

2 these programs.

3 The Chamber of Commerce in Scranton now

4 is the lead organization, so, Council, my request is

5 that representatives from the Scranton Chamber of

6 Commerce and Scranton now address city residents and

7 inform the city residents as to why we are building

8 luxury apartments, restaurants, boutiques, gift shops,

9 coffee shops and pooch parlors.

10 This should be made public and

11 disclosed so that the residents will know why we are

12 building these.

13 I have my own belief on this subject,

14 that being that the city is taking a gamble that the

15 passenger rail service will be operational in the next

16 five years.

17 If this is the reason, let's bring it

18 out to the public. Myself, I think it's a great idea.

19 Scranton's economy will get a fantastic boost.

20 Scranton residents will benefit. They will have the

21 opportunity to work in New York for higher wages and

22 commute back to Scranton. Current New Yorkers residing

23 in New York will have the same opportunities.

24 If this is the reason that these

25 projects are being proposed and started, let's explain


1 in detail to the residents. Keeping the residents in

2 the dark causes nothing but problems.

3 My second guess is that a medical

4 school will be built in Scranton. Again, a great idea,

5 will help boost the economy, will make Scranton a

6 better city to live and work in. Let's get the

7 information out so the citizens know what's really

8 going on.

9 Politicians and leaders must take into

10 consideration that the majority of the Scranton

11 residents have never lived anywhere else. They are --

12 they are -- they have experienced mismanagement,

13 corruption, failed projects after project.

14 Their taxes have been raised instead of

15 lowered. Because of these examples, some have become

16 bitter, angry and have no trust or faith in their local

17 government.

18 Has anyone on City Council ever lived

19 outside the City of Scranton? For a short period of

20 time, a long period of time? Okay.

21 My first appearance before Council I

22 stated that the successful cities that I had lived in

23 were successful because the government bodies worked

24 together to build a better community. The last part of

25 the word community is unity. The first part is comm,


1 meaning communications.

2 Lastly, I would greatly appreciate it

3 if I never hear the words pet projects, I live in that

4 area, this is my neighborhood and so forth. As elected

5 City Council, you represent the entire city, just not

6 your section.

7 Mrs. Gatelli, do you feel that City

8 Council members should give their undivided attention

9 to speakers when they only get five minutes? Like I

10 said, answer when I'm done, please.

11 Mrs. Fanucci, as chairperson for the

12 economic developments, do you support my suggestion and

13 activity work at getting the Chamber of Commerce to

14 explain in detail what the plans are? And I don't mean

15 in a caucus, I mean somewhere out in public so many

16 people who can hear it will hear it and maybe we'll get

17 rid of all this arguing.

18 Mrs. Evans, what's up with the Hollow

19 Avenue project?

20 Mrs. Gatelli, as Council President, you

21 asked the residents not to insult the Council members,

22 now I will ask you to talk with Council members to ask

23 them to chose their words carefully and not insight the

24 audience and citizens.

25 And lastly, this explains everything


1 when it comes to government getting involved.

2 (UNTRANSCRIBABLE), 24 words, The Lord's Prayer, 66

3 words, (UNTRANSCRIBABLE0 67 words, The Ten

4 Commandments, 179 words, The Gettysburg Address, 286

5 words, The Declaration of Independence, 1,300 words,

6 The U.S. Government Regulation on the sale of cabbage,

7 26,911 words. I think government really needs to get

8 it together. But anyway, can I get my answers, please.

9 MS. EVANS: Maybe we can work down the

10 table. First of all, with regard to the situation on

11 Hollow Avenue, I spoke with Mr. Parker this week, and I

12 have not yet spoken with Mr. Moran, who is the

13 gentleman who originally set up the meeting that

14 Mr. Parker failed to attend and who compiled the agenda

15 that contains a number of questions that the residents

16 of the neighborhood have posed.

17 Now, I, as I was saying, did not have

18 the opportunity to contact him yet regarding

19 Mr. Parker's response, so I must ask your indulgence

20 here that I speak to him before I speak to all of

21 Scranton about it, because I would like to know what

22 his response to this will be.

23 MR. JACKOWITZ: My indulgence is

24 granted.

25 MS. EVANS: Thank you.


1 MR. JACKOWITZ: You're welcome.

2 Mrs. Fanucci.

3 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Absolutely. I

4 think that The Chamber should come out and maybe we can

5 have an open forum with The Chamber of Commerce, I

6 think that's a wonderful idea. I would definitely

7 support that.

8 MR. JACKOWITZ: Was I close with my

9 ideas or don't you know?

10 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I can honestly say

11 I've been with The Chamber and they do not project even

12 that far even for us. Projects are on a year base, a

13 two-year base, a three-year base for each project, but

14 I don't know if that's exactly the outcome that you're

15 looking for, like, saying that all of this is coming

16 because of the train. I really don't know that.

17 MR. JACKOWITZ: You know, not only the

18 train, why is it all coming? That's the big question.

19 Let the citizens know why it's all coming and maybe

20 we'll have a better understanding as to why it's coming

21 and why our money is being spent on it, and I think you

22 will get a better reception and a better reception from

23 the citizens and it will cut all this out B.S. out of

24 it, if you know what B.S. means.

25 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I will do that. I


1 will talk to them this week in an E-mail and send it to

2 them and see what we can do, if we can set something

3 up.

4 Also, you had a second question for me,

5 right, about the paying tension. I can't speak for

6 anyone else up here, but when I'm writing or sometimes

7 I am on the computer, I'm looking up ordinances and,

8 like, past laws that we've had.

9 If somebody has a questions and we've

10 had times where people said stuff about dog and cat

11 license, I can look that up right here. I have a lot

12 of ordinances on here.

13 So, it's not that I'm -- maybe we

14 appear that we're not paying attention, but as far as

15 I'm concerned, I am taking notes that I remember

16 exactly what you're saying and how I can go about

17 answering questions for the future. So, I am paying

18 attention.

19 MR. JACKOWITZ: I appreciate that, but

20 I was talking about the sidebars that you and

21 Mrs. Evans has while people are talking.

22 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Well, sometimes

23 that is in reference to what is being discussed, and I

24 might ask her a question or she might ask me a

25 question, something that's helpful.


1 It's not -- we're not sitting here

2 discussing, like, our latest outfits. We are talking

3 about the city business. That's my response.

4 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay. Thank you.

5 MS. GATELLI: And sometimes you're

6 asking the person what the question was because you

7 can't hear.

8 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Yeah, sometimes I

9 did ask that. Before I asked her, I said, What did he

10 say?

11 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay. Thank you for

12 that explanation. Mrs. Gatelli.

13 MS. GATELLI: I don't remember the

14 questions. I was paying so much attention, I didn't

15 the write them down.

16 MR. JACKOWITZ: That's all right. I

17 forgot, you're from South Side.

18 MS. GATELLI: Go ahead. So are you.

19 That's what happens when you live over there.

20 MR. JACKOWITZ: That's right. It's the

21 water. Mrs. Gatelli, do you feel that City Council

22 members should give their undivided attentions to

23 speakers?

24 MS. GATELLI: Yes, I do.

25 MR. JACKOWITZ: And, Mrs. Gatelli, as


1 Council President you asked the residents not to insult

2 the Council members, now I will ask you to talk with

3 Council members to ask them to chose their words

4 carefully and not insight the audience and citizens.

5 MS. GATELLI: I would hope, and I have

6 never seen any of them do that. I would hope that we

7 could all have a mutual respect for each other.

8 MR. JACKOWITZ: My personal opinion, I

9 think it happened last week.

10 MS. GATELLI: Well, I apologize for

11 whoever -- was it to you?

12 MR. JACKOWITZ: No, it was to

13 everybody, but I was the one that said I didn't believe

14 that statement, but now that I've actually taken some

15 research into it, maybe I will believe that statement,

16 but I just didn't like the way a lot of things were

17 said. I think it insighted a lot of people, and

18 there's no need for that.

19 MS. GATELLI: Okay.

20 MR. JACKOWITZ: Because we've been

21 getting along pretty good, believe it or not, since

22 January --

23 MS. GATELLI: Yes, we agree.

24 MR. JACKOWITZ: -- compared to what it

25 used to be like, and I was kind of disappointed last


1 week, I really was, to see that happen, and I hope it

2 just doesn't happen again. And thank you for allowing

3 me to speak.

4 MS. GATELLI: All right. Go ahead.

5 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: If this is in

6 reference to me, I do want to apologize if that's how

7 you felt last week. I believe, too, that this is

8 something that -- I don't feel that that's how it was,

9 it was argumentative, but if that's how you felt, I am

10 going to apologize and I am sorry.

11 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay. I accept your

12 apology. Thank you.

13 MS. GATELLI: Okay. And just for the

14 future, this was five minutes, I bet we're here 15

15 minutes talking, so please limit your comments to five

16 minutes. If you want the Council to answer, we will

17 write the question down and we will answer you in

18 motions, okay? Thank you. Mr. Narsavage.

19 MR. NARSAVAGE: No, because it's not

20 fair to the other people that only took five minutes.

21 MR. NARSAVAGE: I'm Stan Narsavage,

22 Scranton resident and taxpayer. I wasn't going to

23 start at this point, but as long as Bill brought up the

24 subject, I was insulted last week by the remarks from

25 Mrs. Fanucci.


1 And I'm here to give my opinion to her

2 future addresses, and it's an old Arab proverb, and it

3 says, Let they speech be better than silence or be

4 silent. Okay?

5 I also have some questions that I want

6 to ask. Mrs. Gatelli, possibly for next meeting, our

7 next non-profit meeting, I would like to know is having

8 a proper assessment reduced without a hearing legal?

9 MS. GATELLI: Okay.

10 MR. NARSAVAGE: Okay. For everyone on

11 the Council, do you feel that a citizen should have the

12 opportunity to speak to the Mayor or department heads

13 if they have a problem?

14 MS. EVANS: Yes.




18 MS. GATELLI: Yes.

19 MR. NARSAVAGE: Okay. Mr. Courtright,

20 have the soldiers that have returned from the war zone

21 been paid? I'm not talking about the bonus, I'm

22 talking about the difference in rate between the

23 government pay and the city pay.

24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Okay. To the best of

25 my knowledge --


1 MR. NARSAVAGE: Am I accurate?

2 MR. COURTRIGHT: Could I try to explain

3 my answer first?

4 MR. NARSAVAGE: Certainly.

5 MR. COURTRIGHT: Initially when two of

6 the soldiers came back, they got paid differently than

7 guys that had gone prior to them.

8 What had happened was, I guess you

9 would call the personnel department human resources,

10 found out that some of the soldiers, not some of them,

11 all soldiers were getting paid for, I don't know, I

12 don't want to call it battle pay, but they were getting

13 paid other than their base pay, and what the city did

14 was they went and reduced those soldiers' pay by the

15 difference. Are you following me there or no?

16 MR. NARSAVAGE: Yes. Go ahead.

17 MR. COURTRIGHT: So, no, I don't think

18 they're getting paid anything, other than the base pay

19 minus, minus any other pay they're getting. And that's

20 what the city has done. They did not do that

21 originally, and then they changed it.

22 MR. NARSAVAGE: So, the city doesn't

23 really have to pay them the difference in their pays?

24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Unfortunately, yes,

25 they do not have to.


1 MR. NARSAVAGE: There's not a law that

2 says they have to.

3 MR. COURTRIGHT: To the best of my

4 knowledge, no. I looked into it the best I could, and

5 if I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected.

6 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Narsavage, I spoke to

7 Lisa Moran several week ago, and she told me that all

8 the people that went to Iraq were paid the difference

9 in their pay.

10 MR. NARSAVAGE: They were paid?

11 MS. GATELLI: That's what she told me.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Minus, though, minus

13 if they got -- I don't want to use the word battle pay,

14 but they get combat pay, they get housing allowances,

15 that was the --

16 MS. GATELLI: Whatever the difference

17 was, the city paid them, so that they would have the

18 same pay as if they were working for the city. They

19 didn't lose any money.

20 MR. NARSAVAGE: Okay. Thank you. Let

21 me see. I have a couple of, I think, interesting

22 things that maybe the public would like to hear. I

23 won't use any names or where these people are involved,

24 but it has to do with non-profits.

25 One of the larger organizations here in


1 the city they have a number of vice presidents, and I

2 guess according to the law and the 990 forms, they're

3 only allowed to report the first -- the top four.

4 And I'm going to read off the amount of

5 money that they make, but I'm not going to read the

6 names naturally. The person that led the list that

7 this organization earned, he's a vice president, earned

8 $205,074. The second highest, there were two people

9 that were second highest, they both had $185,044, and

10 the last one was $144,642. Now, this is a non-profit

11 organization.

12 One of the larger schools here in the

13 city, colleges, on the 9904 form for '04, their

14 organization worth was posted as $129 million. That's

15 a non-profit organization.

16 Now, I didn't get into a lot of the

17 rest of it, but it's a lot of work and a lot of things

18 to investigate. The information is all there. And you

19 wonder how these people can be non-profit

20 organizations. Thank you.

21 MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Mr. Narsavage.

22 Ray Lyman. No? How about Fay Franus?

23 MS. FRANUS: Fay Franus, Scranton.

24 I've seen on the agenda tonight you're going to vote

25 for Carl Greco to be the lawyer for the city. Now, I'm


1 sure you have your minds made up and you're not about

2 to change them, but, boy I hope you do.

3 And there's nothing you can say to me

4 or anybody else in this city, like I say all the time,

5 that's going to justify how you can do this. It's

6 going to show your true colors if you vote for this

7 man.

8 Three-quarters of a million dollars in

9 less than three years this man gets? And you can't

10 tell me that Boyd Hughes used to get the same amount.

11 He got, like, $900,000 in ten years, so there's no

12 comparison, none.

13 So, don't give me that argument on why

14 you changed your minds. Because if you don't change

15 your minds, I want everybody in the whole City of

16 Scranton to remember how you voted, it's taken care of

17 the mayor's friends.

18 This guy has been taken care of for

19 years, and it has to stop. He's on the board of Prep,

20 and here he is -- here's a man, he's on the board of

21 directors at Prep, he's the lawyer for the city selling

22 the South Side project, the ball field, for the

23 Jesuits. Look at the conflict of interest here. It's

24 constantly taking care of people.

25 The Mayor is constantly taking care of


1 his friends, and you people up there are doing the same

2 thing by voting yes for this man.

3 Now, how are you going to do it? Are

4 you going to still do it? How can you justify it?

5 Anybody going to answer me? How can you possibly sit

6 there and say this man should get another contract?

7 He worked -- how did you allow him to

8 work without a contract for all this time? How did the

9 Mayor let him work without a contract for all this time

10 and get away with it? Somebody going to say something

11 to me here, because this has to stop.

12 Judy, I think you're going to vote for

13 this man.

14 MS. GATELLI: I think I'm going to vote

15 for Carl Greco.

16 MS. FRANUS: And I think you should

17 change your mind, because then it's saying I'm one of

18 the Mayor's people and I'm voting --

19 MS. GATELLI: Well, I'm not one of the

20 Mayor's people.

21 MS. FRANUS: You're voting for what the

22 Mayor wants.

23 MS. GATELLI: I'm my own person.

24 MS. FRANUS: Then how can you possibly

25 justify voting for this man?


1 MS. GATELLI: I'll tell you that when

2 the subject comes up. I'll give you my reasons.

3 MS. FRANUS: They're not good enough.

4 MS. GATELLI: Well --

5 MS. FRANUS: They can't be good enough.

6 They're not good enough -- no matter -- there's nothing

7 you can say, nothing you can say, that's going to

8 justify this, nothing. So, why even bother saying it?

9 All this is going to be a yes vote, he's going to get

10 it and there's Carl Greco going with all our money

11 again.

12 Thousands and thousands of dollars of

13 our money he's going to take away from us again. He's

14 a little greedy. I think give it to somebody else.

15 This is disgusting. And how you can even imagine doing

16 this is totally beyond me.

17 What does it take? What does it take

18 for people to stand up and do something with courage

19 and say no to this mayor who wants everything he wants

20 and gets everything he wants and gives his friends

21 everything he wants? And you're going to still say,

22 Okay, yes. How do you vote? Yes, yes, yes. Go,

23 Greco. More money in his pocket that I'm giving him.

24 I wish I had some of that money. Mrs. Evans, what do

25 you have to say about this?


1 MS. EVANS: First of all, I think that

2 two of the members of Council can't be held responsible

3 for anything that's occurred with Mr. Greco.

4 MS. FRANUS: Will that be you and Mr.

5 Courtright?

6 MS. EVANS: No. I'm talking about the

7 fact that Mrs. Gatelli and Mrs. Fanucci are new to

8 Council, so they weren't involved in --

9 MS. FRANUS: They're involved now.

10 MS. EVANS: In the history of this.

11 MS. FRANUS: They're involved now.

12 MS. EVANS: As for the remaining three,

13 myself included, actually we were never directly

14 involved until now, because the contracts that

15 Mr. Greco received were given to him prior to our being

16 seated on City Council, and since the three of us had

17 been seated, this is the very first time that a

18 contract has appeared.

19 MS. FRANUS: But now you have a chance

20 to make it right so they do have -- Mrs. Gatelli and

21 Mrs. Fanucci certainly do have a say in this.

22 MS. EVANS: For this contract now, yes.

23 MS. FRANUS: It's very important. I

24 don't know.

25 MS. EVANS: I can't dispute that. It's


1 a very, very important decision.

2 MS. FRANUS: My dog can come over here

3 and do this. Mason can come over here and do the right

4 thing. Judy, what's wrong with you? How can you do

5 this?

6 MS. GATELLI: Fay, I'll explain later.

7 MS. FRANUS: There's nothing you can

8 say that will be right.

9 MS. GATELLI: Well, that's your

10 opinion.

11 MS. FRANUS: I think so, because you

12 know why? People you people always have excuses. You

13 always have excuses and you think it's going to be

14 right. Well, it's not right.

15 MS. GATELLI: I've been here two months

16 and I've never hidden from anybody.

17 MS. FRANUS: Pardon me? You never

18 what?

19 MS. GATELLI: I've never hidden

20 anything from anybody. I will answer --

21 MS. FRANUS: I didn't say you hid

22 anything.

23 MS. GATELLI: I will answer the way I

24 see fit, and that's your opinion --

25 MS. FRANUS: It's not right.


1 MS. GATELLI: -- and that's my opinion.

2 MS. FRANUS: No, it's not a matter of

3 opinion, it's wrong. It's wrong. You're wrong. Don't

4 you think this man is a little greedy? I mean, how --

5 MS. GATELLI: Listen, I've worked here

6 and Boyd Hughes in one year made $350,000, and in a

7 five-year period, he made $675,000. And I love Boyd

8 Hughes.

9 MS. FRANUS: Big deal. How about the

10 lawyer that didn't get anything because he never had a

11 chance?

12 MS. GATELLI: Who?

13 MS. FRANUS: A lawyer who never had a

14 chance to work for the city because he's not one of the

15 friends of the Mayor's?

16 MS. GATELLI: Well, the proposals were

17 put out to bid. Everybody had an opportunity.

18 MS. FRANUS: Isn't it amazing how Carl

19 Greco gets it again, isn't it? Something's funny here.

20 Something smells funny.

21 MS. GATELLI: Well, when we were in

22 City Hall, Boyd Hughes got it all the time.

23 MS. FRANUS: We're not -- that's in the

24 ages ago. We're not talking about Boyd Hughes.

25 MS. GATELLI: No, no, no. You have to


1 --

2 MS. FRANUS: That's your excuse, Judy.

3 MS. GATELLI: Yes, it is my excuse,

4 because I worked there and I worked in that department.

5 MS. FRANUS: It's flimsy. It's not

6 good enough.

7 MS. GATELLI: That's your opinion.

8 MS. FRANUS: It's my opinion. I hope

9 everybody in the City of Scranton that's listening to

10 this will realize what you're doing. Not just me up

11 here, there's people at home saying, That's right.

12 Carl Greco shouldn't one more penny from us, us, me,

13 and everybody here and everybody in the city. I'm sick

14 of paying Carl Greco.

15 MS. GATELLI: Well, if we're not paying

16 Carl Greco, we're going to pay Boyd Hughes.

17 MS. FRANUS: Not that much. And why

18 Boyd Hughes?

19 MS. GATELLI: It's going to be

20 $100,000, no matter who gets it. Did the bell ring?

21 MS. FRANUS: Did the bell ring 40 times

22 before me and they talked for 20 minutes later?

23 MS. GATELLI: Yes, but -- I will answer

24 further when the time comes to discuss the --

25 MS. EVANS: Just to clarify what was


1 discussed here. I do have a newspaper article that

2 verifies the fact that in a ten-year period, the total

3 amount of three law firms was $1.25 million during the

4 Connors Administration, and I think it's important to

5 keep in mind that in those times there were major

6 projects that were undertaken, the Mall at Steamtown

7 being the primary among those, that was a monstrous

8 undertaking.

9 It was during those years, also, that

10 the Hilton Hotel began. Also, the first work on the

11 Hotel Casey and the purchase of that for an eventual

12 garage. So, there were projects that were undertaken

13 during those years that, in my opinion, probably were

14 worth far more than the $1.25 million that was spent

15 over a ten-year period. If we were paying for that

16 today, God help us in terms of the attorneys we're

17 using now.

18 MS. FRANUS: Why do you feel Mr. Greco

19 shouldn't get that contract?

20 MS. EVANS: Well, I'll discuss that

21 later.

22 MS. FRANUS: Okay. Thank you.

23 MS. GATELLI: Les Spindler.

24 MR. SPINDLER: Good evening, Council.

25 Les Spindler, Scranton resident. It's going to sound


1 like Mrs. Franus and I rehearsed our lines, but I'm

2 going to talk about the same thing she did.

3 Mrs. Gatelli, a while back you said

4 you're nobody's rubber stamp. If that's true, then how

5 can you vote for Carl Greco for his contract when he

6 wasn't even the low bid?

7 This man just went out and bought

8 $120,000 Mercedes, and his son got a $50,000 car. How

9 do you think that makes the rest of the people in this

10 city feel? How could you say you're not a rubber stamp

11 when you're okaying for this deal?

12 That's why people are moving out of

13 this city, because I think deals are being made with

14 the Mayor. And the politics has to stop here. We need

15 people move into this city, not move out.

16 I was leaving the parade the other day,

17 a gentleman with a beautiful family, two young

18 daughters came up to me, he said, Keep up the good work

19 at Council. You do a great job. He said, I left the

20 city because of this clown, and we know who he meant by

21 clown.

22 Now, these things has to stop, like

23 Mrs. Franus said. It's all politics, and I hope you do

24 change your mind tonight, Mrs. Gatelli. Because if you

25 don't, then it does make you a rubber stamp. I'm sorry


1 if you don't like what I said.

2 Next thing, before the election the

3 Mayor said that we're going to great this great Irish

4 restaurant in the new parking garage, does anybody know

5 where it is? I think it was another idle campaign

6 promise.

7 MR. COURTRIGHT: Les, they had a sign

8 hung up there the other day, so I'm guessing maybe it's

9 coming.

10 MR. SPINDLER: Well, it was supposed to

11 have been there by now.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yeah. I don't know

13 for sure. I saw a sign, though.

14 MR. SPINDLER: Okay. Well, maybe we

15 got a sign but no restaurant.

16 The next thing, Mr. Courtright, you

17 might be able to help me on this, I think there was

18 something, like, between 60 and 90 arrests at the

19 parade on Saturday?

20 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't know the exact

21 amount, but there was --

22 MR. SPINDLER: I heard anywhere from 60

23 to --

24 MR. COURTRIGHT: -- quite a few.

25 MR. SPINDLER: Now, I've been saying


1 this for years, I think it's ridiculous that the bars

2 open at seven o'clock. They open at seven in the

3 morning. Guys go in there, not just guys, I guess

4 girls, too, people go in there. By the time the parade

5 starts, they're smashed, starting trouble, starting

6 fights. I think it's ridiculous. I think the bars

7 should be made to open not until noontime.

8 Now, could Council possibly make up an

9 ordinance to do that? Would your solicitor know that?

10 MS. GATELLI: I don't know. Attorney

11 Minora, would we --

12 MR. MINORA: The bars are under the

13 Liquor Control Board of Pennsylvania, not City Council.

14 MR. SPINDLER: I thought that, but I

15 thought maybe Council --

16 MS. GATELLI: I remember, Mr. Spindler,

17 a couple years ago them being asked not to open that

18 early, and I believe they opened anyway.

19 MR. SPINDLER: I think it's totally

20 outrageous. They're just doing it to make a buck for

21 one day.

22 MS. GATELLI: If you saw in the paper,

23 they had a lot of damage to their restaurants.

24 MS. EVANS: Uh-huh.

25 MR. SPINDLER: Well, maybe they'll


1 learn their lesson. Thank you.

2 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Thank you. Kathy

3 Pocius.

4 MS. POCIUS: Kathy Pocius, 2933 Cedar

5 Avenue. I'm here tonight on the agenda item 6-A, the

6 vacating of Murphy Court.

7 As I stated last week, the problem I

8 have on this is without knowing what the developer has

9 in mind, I think vacating this before we know what is

10 going in there would be a problem.

11 The traffic on Davis Street is

12 excessive. There is -- the church is right there, and

13 I see the developers are here tonight, so possibly they

14 are going to say what they have planned for that

15 particular area.

16 To spend, I think they said $1.7

17 million and not have some type of idea -- they have to

18 know something. And that's all we want. Maybe it will

19 be a viable project that we can support, but until we

20 know what you're going to do, there's problems. Thank

21 you.

22 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Michael

23 Garzarella.

24 MR. GARZARELLA: Good evening, Council.

25 My name is Michael Garzarella, and it is with great


1 reluctance that I speak tonight on the topic of

2 redevelopment. For as last week's meeting proves, it

3 is greatly controversial.

4 Given Scranton's history of blight and

5 decay, redevelopment would seem to be a great benison,

6 and well-planned redevelopment is indeed worth

7 pursuing.

8 However, much of our current

9 redevelopment is based on unsound economic principles.

10 Too many people have been excluded from this planning,

11 and, thus, from the concomitant prosperity.

12 Indeed, an increased stratification of

13 the wealth appears to be its most salient feature.

14 Some might think that the city's financial conditions

15 cannot worsen, but they can. In the future, this

16 crucial time might be regarded as having been the last

17 best hope for the city.

18 One of the most significant decisions

19 of the city's economic recovery strategy has been to

20 attract luxury housing developments. My concern is not

21 so much that no one will be able to afford them, but

22 their ramifications for those who cannot.

23 Needless to say, Scranton is not a

24 particularly affluent community. However, this

25 community has been touted as the next Aspen, Colorado


1 or Cambridge, Massachusetts.

2 Should these well-to-do migrants be

3 attracted, and the city is still a long way from that,

4 one is left to wonder what will happen to the people

5 who are here now.

6 Most people in the city already have a

7 significant challenge in simply surviving financially,

8 and their success can be attributed to the fact that

9 Scranton remains largely affordable, in terms of both

10 housing and consumer prices.

11 With this potential influx of wealth,

12 my fear is that Scranton will be locked into an

13 inflationary cycle where local businesses will cater to

14 the new aristocracy driving up prices and making living

15 in this city financially infeasible.

16 Considering the city's long history of

17 industrial strife an noblesse oblige masquerading as

18 civic-mindedness, the circumstances are right for

19 destructive gentrification.

20 Also, one main focus of the unfolding

21 economic plan has been to attract new bids. It is

22 often said that this competition will force businesses

23 to offer better prices to consumers.

24 And it is true that if these businesses

25 had approximately equal resources, ceteris paribus,


1 this would be the case.

2 However, truth of the matter is that

3 many of the businesses that could relocate here are

4 large national chains that are not loath to use

5 anti-competitive practices.

6 Using their specialized wholesaling

7 operations, such corporations would very likely force

8 the existing local businesses into bankruptcy because

9 of their inability to underprice the large chains, a

10 cruel fate, which has a remedy under the

11 Robinson-Patman Act, but is never the less hard to

12 prove in court.

13 In fact, these circumstances suggest

14 the possibility of a monopoly in this area. While one

15 often thinks of a monopoly as a company with a

16 monolithic hold over a particular market, as a legal

17 matter, a monopoly is a company which has integrated

18 its operations to the point of predating competition.

19 In one case, the Supreme Court in the

20 matter of United States versus Von's Grocery Company,

21 decided in 1966, ruled that a proposed company that

22 would only control 7.5 percent of a local market was a

23 monopoly because it had the effect of eliminating

24 legitimate competition.

25 While Scranton should not send a


1 message that new business is verboten, it must not

2 pursue new business to the detriment of our local

3 economic foundation.

4 To conclude, you are all in an

5 unenviable position. Your assigned task is to solve

6 the city's nearly irreconcilable crisis; namely, how to

7 attract the needed infusion of new economic blood

8 without spending this city into a financial abyss.

9 The only two admonitions I can give are

10 that private wealth must never be the handmaiden of

11 public squalor, and that our fondest hopes must never

12 obscure the grim realities. I thank you all for

13 listening.

14 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

15 MS. EVANS: Mr. Garzarella, it is my

16 opinion that you might be genuinely better seated up

17 here. Very well spoken.

18 MS. GATELLI: Is there anyone else that

19 would like to address Council?

20 MR. STUCKER: Hello, Mr. Courtright.

21 Okay. We have a couple problems. We have a couple

22 drains that are blocked on Providence Square. There's

23 one on the bottom of the hill by Rite Aide Drugstore,

24 there's one on the bottom of the hill there, and

25 there's a couple on the top of the hill. They're all


1 blocked with leafs and dirt and garbage.

2 Now, over on Ash Street, I just tore

3 our stove apart last week, and it's laying there

4 alongside the road. They're supposed to pick it up.

5 They never came back. Nobody told them about it.

6 Everybody just started kicking it. It was all rotted,

7 so I started kicking it and knocked it loose. There's

8 pieces there. There's a few holes right there, too,

9 where the bus stops on Ash Street. And On Parrot

10 Avenue, too, the holes on Parrot Avenue were never

11 filled in.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: We asked to have that

13 paved last week. We asked that they pave Parrot

14 Avenue, Jim. Well, they didn't it yet, I know. We

15 just asked last week.

16 MR. STUCKER: Okay. And the busses, we

17 have a hard time downtown. They're trying to stop, and

18 there's cars all the way next to the bus where the

19 busses go by Oppenheim's and the Globe -- Oppenheim's

20 that's across the street.

21 We can't -- the busses can't get parked

22 to get people on the bus. They got to park in the

23 middle of the road sometimes on the edge of the road.

24 I complained about that last year about the busses

25 parking there. Now the busses are complaining they


1 can't park. I'm afraid somebody is going to get hurt

2 or stub their toe or twist their ankle.

3 And about last -- I think last week we

4 had a wreck with a motorcycle and a car, the same

5 place, on the other side of the road by the bank.

6 So, we -- and I don't want to put this

7 on TV, I will give you a picture and the name of the

8 building.

9 MR. COURTRIGHT: Jim, I know you talked

10 to me about that. You have to tell the police about

11 that.

12 MR. STUCKER: I did, and they're not

13 doing nothing about it.

14 MR. COURTRIGHT: I can't -- I don't

15 want to say what they're doing there. I can't stop

16 them from doing that. The police need to stop them.

17 MR. STUCKER: Yeah.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm sorry about that.

19 Maybe you can tell the landlord what they're doing

20 there.

21 MR. STUCKER: Okay. And I'm going to

22 vote for Judy -- or, Mrs. Evans, I'm going to vote for

23 her again. She's going to be on Providence Square

24 around the corner. I'm going to be there to vote for

25 her.


1 MS. EVANS: Thank you.

2 MR. STUCKER: And Mr. Murphy, his name

3 is, he doesn't want me to vote for her, he wants me to

4 vote for him. It's my choice. I got my choice. I'm

5 voting for her.

6 MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Mr. Stucker.

7 MS. EVANS: Thank you.

8 MR. STUCKER: I'm going back in the

9 hospital again, a knee I damaged. That's why I got the

10 brace on.

11 MS. GATELLI: Well, good luck.

12 MR. STUCKER: Yeah. Okay. Anyone else

13 care to address Council?

14 MR. LYMAN: Raymond Lyman. I just got

15 one problem and one question. The problem is on the

16 300 block of Phelps Street, its catch basin, it needs

17 to be fixed. And I talked about this for years now.

18 Ms. Evans, you and Mr. Courtright and

19 Mr. McTiernan knows about it, and I talked about this

20 already about two prior Councils about this,

21 Mrs. Gatelli, and it needs to be corrected.

22 Now, the second question, now, this is

23 part of a group that I'm a member of, it's not the

24 Scranton Taxpayers Association, it's the Scranton Plan.

25 Now, we got a copy of the Scranton


1 Plan, we made copies of it, and I read it, and the

2 question I have is, Why doesn't City Council initiate

3 the Scranton Plan?

4 MS. GATELLI: If it's the Scranton Plan

5 I think you're talking about, I believe that's a

6 Chamber of Commerce project.

7 MR. LYMAN: No, not that one, I'm

8 talking about the one that could get us out of debt.

9 That's the one we got.

10 MS. GATELLI: I don't believe I've ever

11 seen that.

12 MR. LYMAN: It was up in OCD office.

13 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, the Recovery Plan?

14 MR. LYMAN: No, not that, not the

15 Recovery Plan. We have a copy of that. It's a joke.

16 It's a joke, in my opinion. I mean, we looked at it.

17 It's a joke.

18 MS. GATELLI: Do you have a copy of

19 what you're talking about?

20 MR. LYMAN: Yeah. Maybe when I come to

21 the Taxpayers Association --

22 MS. GATELLI: Yes, bring it with you,

23 because I'm not familiar with what you're talking

24 about.

25 MR. LYMAN: Yeah. Now, our meeting is


1 coming up in March, the end of March, so, maybe when I

2 come here, I'll bring you a copy. It's a big thick

3 thing like this, and it lays out all how they get this

4 city out of debt, how to bring in jobs, and it was made

5 15, 16 years ago.

6 And some people spoke here about this,

7 and that's how our group heard about it, and my friend

8 went up there. He paid 20-some dollars for it,

9 because, you know, all the pages, and he got it and we

10 all -- he made copies and I got a big stack myself of

11 it, and I've been reading it.

12 And I said, it's kind of ridiculous

13 that this Mayor didn't initiate it and the Council

14 initiate it. I mean, we could have gotten ourselves

15 out of debt within a year or two.

16 I mean, I said if I was a councilman, I

17 would initiate this plan. The first thing I would do

18 is get this Pennsylvania Economy League, get them out

19 of here and initiate this. Cut the fat out of the city

20 and do it.

21 MS. GATELLI: Well, make sure we get a

22 copy. Thank you.

23 MR. LYMAN: Okay. And I got one more

24 little thing, I hope Syracuse wins, and I hope my team,

25 too, Bucknell. Thank you.


1 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

2 MR. DAVIS: Assalaam Alaikum. My name

3 is Jim Davis. I came -- I was sitting at home, and I

4 saw this Asa come up and you gave him a citation, and I

5 said, let me run over and get a picture of him for the

6 Mellania News, and by the time I got here he was gone

7 already, but I'm hoping that -- Kay, can you put me in

8 touch with his parents or something that I can get a

9 picture for him possibly?

10 MS. GARVEY: I don't believe I have his

11 phone number or anything.

12 MR. DAVIS: Okay. All right. Thank

13 you.

14 MS. GATELLI: He goes to West Scranton

15 High School.

16 MR. DAVIS: I figured that she would

17 know. All right. West Scranton High School. What is

18 his last name, Asa what?

19 MS. GARVEY: Lucas.

20 MR. DAVIS: Asa Lucas, right. This

21 young man here spoke brilliantly. I've sat through

22 (UNTRANSCRIBABLE), I've sat through a lot of things.

23 And you really anchor the ship. Really, you've spoken

24 very nicely, very correctly. I commend you for it. I

25 commend all of you for being here again. And I would


1 love to take a picture of you after it's all over.

2 Because I saw what you did after the

3 last meeting, you all got together and talked about

4 what you were doing after the -- it was on the screen.

5 Here you stood, you didn't realize it, but you were

6 still being filmed.

7 And I think that's the mark of an

8 excellent group of young minds, and I would like to

9 show that to the kids at the Progressive Center.

10 I'm very involved at the Progressive

11 Center. I was sitting at home writing a proposal for

12 their leadership and training course when Asa came on,

13 so I ran over here. But I'm saying I'm glad I came

14 just to hear your speech in person. It's different in

15 person than it is on television. It really is.

16 And I think the kids should want to

17 come here and listen to these speeches made by people

18 trying to defend their way of life, because that's what

19 this is, defends your way of life.

20 It may not all be pretty, but it's all

21 the same thing. It's very important. It's important

22 that our kids know that they can express themselves.

23 And if you teachers and you principals understand that

24 to be so, then we have to have a better class of kin,

25 we've got to have a better class of student, and we're


1 not doing what we should be doing as support groups to

2 our students.

3 I really feel that to be true. And

4 we're trying to do more at the Progressive Center.

5 That's more at the present time.

6 Thank you for your time. I'm not going

7 to stay long. I'm not going to -- Mr. Minora or

8 Attorney Minora, leave your bell alone tonight.

9 There is one thing that I wanted to

10 say, though, we are getting ready to go into another

11 election session, and I really want to impress those

12 that are out there that are not registered to vote,

13 please become active in your city government, in your

14 state government, because without you, this government

15 does not become that of a people, it becomes that of

16 some people. And that's what he was talking about in

17 his speech, how we become a class rich society, and

18 everything we're doing is towards a certain class of

19 people. It's not fair, it's not just, but it's

20 reality.

21 And unless you become involved, you

22 will not be a part of those that are being protected,

23 fed, employed, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera in this

24 community.

25 So, please, get out, vote -- vote your


1 conscience. I'm not telling you how to vote for or who

2 to vote for, vote your conscious. Get to know who each

3 one of the characters are that are running for your

4 offices. Know what they stand for, know what they

5 think they're going to do, because what they think

6 they're going t do and what they do sometimes is a lot

7 different, and you have to learn how to gauge that,

8 too.

9 There's a certain amount of credibility

10 that they have to carry. And you guys are right at the

11 stage and the time. A year from now, two years from

12 now, you will be voters, some three years from now, and

13 we will need you to vote with open minds, good

14 intelligence, and that's what we hope to do. That way

15 we an make this crowd representative of your thoughts.

16 Thank you again. Have a nice evening.

17 MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Mr. Davis.

18 Anyone else care to speak before Council?

19 MR. JONES: Good evening. I'm Attorney

20 William Jones, and I'm representing Moosic Realty. The

21 reason why I'm here this evening deals with Item 6-A,

22 the vacation of Murphy Street or Murphy Court. I

23 applaud Council for entertaining that.

24 Moosic Realty has invested close to

25 $1.5 million with regard to a redevelopment project for


1 the good of the city in this particular area. It is

2 also -- it will also supply between 40 and 50 jobs to

3 the city with regard to it.

4 I would just like to go over that

5 particular area which it occurs, because I was involved

6 in the vacation of Krist court, which is right across,

7 in 1999, when, I believe, Mr. Pocius, if I recall

8 correctly, was the head of Council, I came to speak on

9 the vacation of Krist Court. And Council -- Krist

10 Court is directly across the street where another

11 revitalization project took place. You now presently

12 have a bank and the drugstore over there, which serves

13 the community.

14 At that time I came to speak, and

15 Mr. Pocius was very much in favor of it, as was all the

16 members of Council. And they passed that one. That

17 legislation went through the courts.

18 It also came back to Council in the

19 year 2003. Ordinance No. 187 was, once again, for the

20 same portion, Krist Court, which is across the street

21 from our project, came before Council, and Council, and

22 I applaud them for doing that, because it brought a

23 revitalization project to the city.

24 They voted for Ordinance No. 187, and

25 it passed, and that's why you have new development, new


1 construction, which obviously my clients will be

2 providing for it.

3 I know that Murphy Court as it

4 presently existed, some questions arose with regard to

5 it. Presently it's 12.5 feet wide. I'm sure after

6 consulting with your engineers and why the city

7 proposed this legislation is under all of the existing

8 engineer standards, it's unsafe.

9 One of the reasons, I presume, that

10 you're doing this is not only for the economic

11 revitalization, but your citizens are at risk, because

12 at 12.5 feet a standard car is 7 feet wide. If you

13 have the two cars in that particular area, they can't

14 pass.

15 Additionally there are other standards

16 with regard to the courts or the establishment of a

17 court. Pursuant to your own subdivision ordinances and

18 your own road ordinances, that court as it presently

19 exists couldn't exist because it places your employees,

20 but more importantly, your residents' lives are at

21 stake by the existence of that court. Presumably,

22 that's why Council had the hindsight of vacating Krist

23 Court and why this is on the agenda this evening.

24 And I think that that is -- I applaud

25 it for that. My clients have an economic interest in


1 it, but I recognize that Council has the overall safety

2 of the populus.

3 Additionally, a question came up with

4 regard to the legal justification. And the

5 Pennsylvania Supreme Court in the seminal decision of

6 Cohen versus Simpson Realty, it happened in Scranton,

7 Pennsylvania.

8 The case that we all use for the

9 vacation of this alley is the Globe Store wanted to

10 build a garage. There was an alley of a similar size

11 to this one that went through where the Globe Store

12 parking garage is today.

13 The Council at that point vacated the

14 alley. There was someone that did not abut, and I

15 bring out to Council, my client owns both sides of this

16 court as it presently exists, and the Simpson Company,

17 the Cleveland Simpson Company, which owned the Globe

18 Store at the time, they owned both sides of it.

19 Well, the Council -- the City Council,

20 the Scranton City Council in that case, also had the

21 foresight to say where there is an economic

22 justification for a project, as well as safety

23 concerns, I presume, that they went forward with it,

24 and that project went, and it obviously provided a

25 vital service to the city.


1 But why I bring that to your attention,

2 is I understand that there was some other precedent

3 that there may have been some question with regard to

4 that.

5 The precedent from the Pennsylvania

6 Supreme Court is what is binding, and in that case, the

7 same City Council, I'm not sure if it was five members

8 or if it was the older Council where they actually had

9 two that passed it, had the foresight to go forward

10 with it.

11 So, obviously Scranton has always been

12 in the forefront for both safety and for economic

13 revitalization, to provide the construction jobs to our

14 industry, as well as to provide the mercantile tax, the

15 gross receipts tax that comes with it, as well as the

16 increased real estate taxes.

17 I do understand that there were some

18 questions as to, and I heard it when I was sitting

19 there, with regard to safety and the traffic.

20 Obviously they're both state highways, and we would

21 have to apply for a highway occupancy permit, so,

22 therefore, the public would be safer than a

23 pre-existing alley that didn't have it.

24 And with regard to the uses, I realize

25 that doesn't come into play as to whether it's safe or


1 unsafe to vacate a substandard alley, but I can tell

2 the Council tonight what is proposed is a chain

3 restaurant, a national chain restaurant for that

4 corner. There's an additionally another outbuilding

5 that will have a retail store or stores in it on that

6 project.

7 But time is of the essence. Similar to

8 all projects, national chains do not wait. That's why

9 I applaud the fact that we're into the second reading

10 and that will not deny the city the opportunity or lose

11 this project to an another municipality or to, in this

12 case, to put my client who have invested -- they

13 believe, like you do, in the City of Scranton, they

14 have invested a million and a half dollars and are

15 putting additional dollars in there.

16 So, we've explained that we do have the

17 uses, and I can share that with you now, for that

18 justification. Two, I applaud you that you have a

19 substandard road under all the America Association of

20 Highway and Roads, they actually want you to go about

21 16 feet or higher, so you're at least 3 feet below.

22 Thank you, Amil, for the bell, and I

23 appreciate that it is on the agenda. I understand this

24 is only a second reading and you have next week, and

25 ultimately you have a vote, but at least this would be,


1 at least in this area, it is the second alley for which

2 Council had the foresight, because they recognize

3 projects have a certain life and they can die

4 otherwise.

5 But, once again, this is a more of a

6 safety concern for your residents, and we believe in

7 the City of Scranton, that's why we have put close to a

8 million and a half dollars towards it. Thank you.

9 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mr. Jones, may I ask

10 you one question, please? You mentioned that there's a

11 major retail store coming in there and one other --

12 MR. JONES: A national chain.

13 MR. COURTRIGHT: Restaurant, I'm sorry.

14 Have you made the residents aware of that now or no?

15 Are they aware --

16 MR. JONES: I'm making Council aware of

17 that.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm just asking,

19 because I know a couple of the residents came and they

20 were concerned about what would be going in it. Is

21 that public knowledge now? Do the residents know yet

22 or no?

23 MR. NAVICH: We just spoke with

24 Mrs. Pocius outside.

25 MS. EVANS: What?


1 MR. COURTRIGHT: They spoke to

2 Mrs. Pocius outside.

3 MS. EVANS: Okay. But the rest of the

4 residents who were here last week?

5 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm guessing you just

6 found out who was going in there or are you just

7 releasing that information?

8 MR. JONES: I'm releasing that

9 information. Obviously it's competitive to give the

10 chain, I'm not releasing the name for the particular

11 chain because, one, that puts my clients' money and

12 economics at risk, and it also puts the City of

13 Scranton at risk, because if you I release it now,

14 we're only into the second reading.

15 Obviously they're time sensitive.

16 There's a large likelihood that you will lose that to a

17 facility.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: I was just curious,

19 because I know when the residents came the last time,

20 they were concerned about what would be going in there.

21 One thing they were concerned about is if a 24-hour

22 mini mart, gas station --

23 MR. JONES: Absolutely not.

24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Right. And that's the

25 only reason I'm asking you, are they aware, because


1 quite possibly if it's, as Mrs. Pocius stated earlier,

2 if it's something that the residents can live with and

3 it's good for the community, then there would be no

4 opposition from the residents, and that's the only

5 reason I'm asking are they aware of it.

6 MR. JONES: If they are not, I'll make

7 it my duty to inform them between the second reading

8 and the third reading, which gives us the opportunity,

9 but more importantly, keeps the project alive for the

10 City of Scranton.

11 And it isn't something that I'm

12 bringing here that we're asking for economic dollars or

13 that we're asking for anything, other than to give us

14 the opportunity to keep going forward.

15 And we have, and I know that you have

16 heard from the developers, that they have put a million

17 and a half dollars. There aren't too many people that

18 are saying, we will invest in the city and we will take

19 those types of risks to go forward with it.

20 We will do that. And since we're only

21 at the second reading, we'll take the time, and I'll

22 report back to you by the third reading that we have,

23 in fact, and I'll talk to the one woman that was here,

24 and I understand there may have been one or two others,

25 between those two, but the project remains alive.


1 MS. GATELLI: Attorney Jones, do you

2 have any plans to go to the planning commission meeting

3 next week?

4 MR. JONES: Yes, I'll attend the

5 planning commission.

6 MS. GATELLI: Are you on the agenda?

7 MR. JONES: Yes. I'm informed from my

8 client that we are. I would like to share with Council

9 at this time the Lackawanna County Regional Planning

10 Commission has met on this --

11 MS. GATELLI: Yes, we have that letter.

12 MR. JONES: -- and they have

13 recommended approval.

14 MS. GATELLI: We have that letter.

15 MR. JONES: And the reason they

16 recommend approval is you look at the impact of where

17 an ordinance is being vacated. We owe on both sides of

18 the street, and I'm sure for those persons that are in

19 that area, I have quite a few clients, Murphy Court is,

20 one, not only is it risky to use it, but it really

21 hasn't been paved in quite a number of years. It's not

22 it in the best of conditions, so --

23 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Jones, are you aware

24 that if we vacate Murphy Court, because you own both

25 sides of Murphy Court, that the project can't go to the


1 west of Murphy Court anyway because the zone does not

2 allow it?

3 MR. JONES: I'm aware of the zones that

4 are down there, yes. If you're asking me do I know

5 that there's a different zone in that area, yes, I'm

6 aware of a different zone.

7 The one Council should be concerned

8 with there are residents and property owners, including

9 my client. With regard to this vacation, this gets rid

10 of an unsafe condition, even if we develop on our side

11 of the street. You have a condition that is unsafe.

12 It puts people's lives at risk.

13 More importantly with regard to it, my

14 clients don't intend in going into that residential

15 area, the R zone for the development itself. So, our

16 plans don't need that. We do need the vacation of that

17 to keep the project alive, and I appreciate that I have

18 the week to go forward with that, because that's a

19 substantial investment for the city. I know --

20 MS. GATELLI: You won't be asking for a

21 zoning change on that westerly side?

22 MR. JONES: On the westerly side?

23 That's on the far side of it? If that's conducive --

24 if we get a client for the westerly side of the avenue,

25 yes, I'll come in with that, or if we have other


1 economic development that can -- we don't have one now,

2 but if we do have one, yes, and I would ask Council to

3 entertain that, and if you so desire and it fits within

4 the goals and the planning that goes forward, it's

5 under the municipalities planning code, the whole

6 process that goes with that.

7 If it was advisable and the governing

8 body saw fit, I could bring that back. I can't really

9 say that -- and I'd love to be able to say that, and so

10 would my clients, that we would like to -- that we have

11 other people that are investigating in the City of

12 Scranton, but we only have this one particular project

13 now, so --

14 MS. GATELLI: It will only go as far as

15 Murphy Court?

16 MR. JONES: Yes. That's all we have at

17 this time.

18 MS. EVANS: To the north or the south

19 of Murphy Court?

20 MS. GATELLI: It's east and west.

21 MR. JONES: It's actually to the west.

22 I believe it parallels Birney Avenue.

23 MS. GATELLI: Towards the church.

24 MS. EVANS: Right. But I'm referencing

25 the map that your clients presented us last week, and


1 they indicated Murphy Court ran through the middle, and

2 they indicated that they owned the property both to the

3 south and to the north, according ing to the map, so,

4 perhaps they recall what I'm discussing.

5 Is this chain restaurant and retail

6 store going, based on that map, to the north or to the

7 south?

8 MR. JONES: It would be on the south,

9 which I'll also say is the east.

10 MS. GATELLI: It's east.

11 MR. JONES: So, on the southeast side

12 of it, it's remaining in what --

13 MS. GATELLI: On Birney Avenue, Birney

14 Avenue side.

15 MR. JONES: Yes, it's remaining on the

16 Birney Avenue side, the C-N side. The neighborhood

17 commercial area that it's presently zoned.

18 I would like to say that we have

19 another client or another project to go across there.

20 It's obviously something that would be good for the

21 city.

22 I don't have that at this time, but

23 projects of a magnitude like this where you have over a

24 million and a half dollars involved and construction

25 costs, I would guess probably, and I'm not an engineer,


1 it would probably be over another million dollars.

2 So, for somebody to put two and a half

3 million dollars in a zone that it presently allows for

4 it, we're just trying to alleviate one of the safety

5 concerns.

6 And I recognize the sensitivity of

7 different people that live in the area, so I appreciate

8 having that week, keeping the project alive, and we

9 will make a point, I'll make a pointed effort to do

10 that.

11 MS. EVANS: And what is the status of

12 the two remaining properties?

13 MR. JONES: I'm not ware of two

14 remaining -- of our two remaining properties?

15 MS. EVANS: There are two residential

16 homes that your client has not purchased in that area.

17 MR. JONES: Over on -- there's a --

18 it's two streets where there's Birney Avenue, Murphy

19 Court, and then there's another road, and I --

20 MS. GATELLI: Cedar Avenue. They're on

21 Cedar and Davis.

22 MR. JONES: There are two homes on

23 Cedar Avenue that --

24 MS. GATELLI: He owns one of them. You

25 still own the one, right, the one with the swimming


1 pool?

2 MR. PLISKO: There's three homes on

3 Cedar Avenue right now. We own one of them. We're in

4 the process of owning the other two, which is the

5 Howards and the Donlans. We will be buying them, as

6 long as we get approval in the future to rezone that

7 commercial neighborhood.

8 We're not looking for commercial, we're

9 looking for commercial neighborhood. We don't plan on

10 putting anything there that's going to be a 24-hour

11 service. We don't need the headaches with phone calls

12 at four o'clock in the morning. We're doing it for the

13 betterment of the community, so that the community

14 wouldn't have to travel out of town to buy a videotape

15 or something like that like. It's for the betterment

16 of the community.

17 MS. EVANS: Have you been in contact

18 with those two homeowners since last week's meeting?

19 MR. NAVICH: Yes. We have spoken to

20 the attorney, their attorney, and their attorney did

21 express interest on their clients and that he is in

22 touch now with our attorney, which at this point we're

23 not allowed to give the information out on that. But

24 we have been in touch, yes.

25 MS. GATELLI: What happens if we allow


1 you the vacation of Murphy Court and we don't allow you

2 to change the zone?

3 MR. PLISKO: I'll have no choice but to

4 put up residential houses.

5 MR. JONES: But more importantly, we're

6 dealing with the vacation of the roadway.

7 MS. GATELLI: I know, but we have to

8 look at the big picture, too.

9 MR. JONES: That's fine. And I

10 understand sometimes that that is one of the factors

11 that comes into your decision. There's nothing that we

12 would like better than to, one, acquire the rest of

13 that block, and, B, to have a project. We just don't

14 have one at this time.

15 And to further address Mrs. Evans,

16 obviously they have other counsel than myself that only

17 deals with zoning and vacation and other municipal

18 issues that come up. So, I was unaware that there had

19 been negotiations on that.

20 They're using other counsel for that,

21 and that's everyone's prerogative. I just wish we also

22 had this young gentleman here who was very articulate

23 and he can further explain the project.

24 I thank you for your time, and I

25 appreciate that we will get a reading so we can go


1 forward, and hear that we will make a -- I'll make a

2 concerted effort to talk to the neighbors in that area

3 and it still allows this project to go forward, so, I

4 do thank you for that. Thank you.

5 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Is there

6 anyone else?

7 MR. ELMAN: Ronny Elman. A penny for

8 your thoughts. You think I'm up here to badmouth

9 Mr. Garcia again, don't you? But I assure -- I won my

10 case. They moved the trailer. I walked Lump by there

11 Tuesday night, no trailer, and I'm happy.

12 But I shouldn't have had to have gone

13 to all this trouble and agitate a whole neighborhood

14 for blight, you know? That shouldn't happen in this

15 city like that. It ought to be addressed. There's

16 good laws on the books that nobody enforces.

17 And like I said, I appreciate, I don't

18 know who did it from -- who put pressure on him, but

19 the trailer is gone. His place still looks like a

20 landfill, but I'm happy. It's somebody else's problem

21 now. I don't know where he put it.

22 But last week there was a couple

23 intelligent comments about buying the grater for the

24 streets and sharing it. The next thing I knew or heard

25 on the news that Mr. Munchak had purchased it; is that


1 right? He said that we're going to have to share it

2 with Carbondale.


4 MR. ELMAN: You do not loan equipment

5 out. I've worked for all my life around cars and

6 trucks and equipment, you do not loan a piece of

7 equipment out. It's just not done, unless you're a

8 rental, you know. This is an asinine idea.

9 A piece of machinery like this needs to

10 be maintained. It has hammers in it that wear out it's

11 a constant -- for the whole life of it, it's going to

12 have to be maintained and parts bought for it, and I

13 just never heard of something so ridiculous in trying

14 to share something that you could use four or five

15 months with other people.

16 Then to make it worse, they said that

17 we're going to give it to the other communities free.

18 This is unheard of, you know.

19 And then to make it worse, they said

20 that the communities we're going to loan it to have to

21 have their own loader operator go down to push it.

22 I can move a loader from point A to B,

23 and I'm not qualified to push a grater down the street.

24 I tell you, that take some kind of expertise.

25 What if he runs into a manhole cover?


1 There goes the machine and maybe an injury from it.

2 And it just takes us a split second, no matter how

3 careful somebody is, for an injury to happen around

4 machinery. There's always a lot of horsing around.

5 Last year, like I said, I've been

6 around machinery my whole life, last year for a split

7 second, I lowered my guard, and I got hit by a crane.

8 I walked into a crane. I had 123 stitches in my face.

9 I knocked out ten teeth. I hurt my arm, my back,

10 everything.

11 And that's not pertaining to what I'm

12 saying. What if somebody in Throop has borrowing our

13 machine and has an injury like that?

14 I was fortunate, because Mr. DeNaples

15 had just excellent insurance. I just -- they just bent

16 over backwards for everything I want. I go to all

17 kinds of doctors. I mean, what would the city do for

18 an injury, $100,000 injury?

19 This idea of loaning machinery out is

20 just -- it's just -- you just don't do it, especially

21 free. I mean, you know, if it breaks down, who is

22 supposed to repair it?

23 This is just a silly as our mayor

24 tearing down houses for everybody at our expense, and

25 then there's no money when a house burns down in the


1 neighborhood.

2 You know, that house, I can use that

3 one that everybody probably knows, the big house on

4 Sanderson and Green Ridge, we used city labor to tear

5 it down, city equipment, a truck hauled it off to the

6 landfill, we paid for it. What did we get out of all

7 that? It doesn't make sense, except spending our

8 money, and then there's no money when somebody says

9 they want a house burned down -- addressed.

10 This city is just -- you know, these

11 people right here are going to address this in five,

12 ten, twenty years. Most of them will move on to

13 greener pastures probably. It's nice to see a pretty

14 face at the table for a change anyway.

15 But let's just say four or five of them

16 are going to be here in 20 years, they're going to

17 inherit a, what, a $220 million debt. Is that what you

18 said last week? There's less than $40,000 taxpayers

19 here.

20 Let me urge you to do one thing, that's

21 to listen and think about what goes on at these

22 meetings. And when you start voting, you want the

23 opposite of what is happening in this city and county.

24 You don't want to follow what is going on here right

25 now. Just take my word for it as a taxpayer . Thank


1 you.

2 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Anyone else

3 care to speak before Council?

4 MR. SLEDZINSKI: I want to say one

5 thing tonight. Jerry, good luck tonight. And remember

6 one thing when you come home, standing ovation for the

7 guy. Thank you.

8 MS. GATELLI: We all second that,

9 Chris.

10 MR. SLEDZINSKI: Thanks, Judy.

11 MS. GATELLI: By the way, Mr. Spindler,

12 I talked to Jerry's mom and told her that we were

13 interested in doing a proclamation for him, so she's

14 going to let us know when everything winds down. She's

15 not sure that he'll be able to come, but I said that

16 her and her husband can come and accept it for him.

17 So, we're going to be in touch with her.

18 MR. SPINDLER: It would be nice if he

19 could come.

20 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, well, she's not

21 sure about that.

22 MR. LYMAN: How about naming a street?

23 MS. GATELLI: It's not a bad idea.

24 MR. LYMAN: Rename Capouse Avenue

25 McNamara Avenue.


1 MS. KRAKE: Good evening, Council. My

2 name is Nancy Krake, and this evening I'd like to talk

3 about 7-D, which is hiring the Carl Greco.

4 I'd just like to say earlier Mrs. Evans

5 mentioned something that I was also going to say, but

6 I'll repeat it. I happened to be here when Boyd Hughes

7 was here, and I had the privilege of working with him

8 and Lina Rayo and Kitsy Hart on the projects of the

9 mall and the train station. They were voluminous and

10 intense, to say the least.

11 And I also believe it's safe to say

12 that the Greco firm has not come close to this type of

13 work or the amount of it.

14 Approximately two weeks ago I attended

15 the library board meeting, and it was there that

16 Carl Greco made statements directly to stop the funding

17 of Channel 61 for 2006.

18 His first statement was he did not feel

19 it should be funded because they did not have an

20 itemized bill. Strange that's coming from Carl Greco,

21 but nonetheless, he did say that.

22 Well, fair enough, you may think,

23 except for the fact that apparently there were only a

24 few items on the budget for Channel 61, and they were

25 very clear to everyone but Mr. Greco.


1 Mr. Greco also felt that the money for

2 Channel 61 for 2006 would be better spent on the

3 heating system renovation the library will have to

4 undergo. Apparently this was a news flash to him.

5 They need to change from city steam to

6 gas to heat the library. This is not news to anyone

7 else. The city has been looking funding for this

8 change for the heating system for several years. And

9 since this city owns the library building, perhaps

10 they're either solely responsible for this cost or they

11 may be able to help find funding for the library, as

12 they're finding funding for the city.

13 Or as Mrs. Gatelli mentioned earlier,

14 we collect $250,000 a year in taxes, perhaps some of

15 that money could be used.

16 Also, Mrs. Gatelli told us earlier

17 administrations hire lawyers who have the same agenda

18 as they do. How crystal clear it was to everyone at

19 the library board meeting that Carl Greco and this

20 administration that he represents wanted Channel 61 to

21 be shut down for the year 2006 and forever.

22 And by the way, they didn't get their

23 way. The excellent members of the board, the library

24 board, voted to keep Channel 61 funded this year to

25 help them get on their feet, and this was in spite of


1 Carl Greco and this administration. So, I would hope

2 that everyone would think long and hard before voting

3 for this man. Thank you.

4 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

5 MR. ANCHERANI: Good evening, Council.

6 I'm Nelson Ancherani, resident and taxpayer, city

7 employee and financial secretary of the FOP.

8 Mrs. Fanucci, last week you stated that

9 we should move on, that the city needs economic

10 development to move on, you're right, but at what

11 price?

12 This city's excessive borrowing and

13 irresponsible spending is mortgaging our children's and

14 grandchildren's future for the next 28 years at a cost

15 of well over $200 million.

16 From the way you talk, you sound

17 financially blessed and not living on a fixed income or

18 from paycheck to paycheck.

19 Many of the residents of this city are

20 not as fortunate as you are. For many of the residents

21 and taxpayers, paying off the 28 years of debt and

22 higher anticipated taxes because of the reckless

23 spending of this administration is going to be a major

24 struggle.

25 Many will have to sell their properties


1 because they won't be able to take on that burden. The

2 mayor already admitted that there will be a tax

3 increase. And what the debt is now, that tax increase

4 will be major.

5 You've also been on Council for two and

6 a half months. I've been an employee of the city for

7 30 years and have been attending Council meetings for

8 the last four years.

9 Four years ago I could have said we

10 should move on. At this point four years later, it

11 would be very difficult, if not impossible, to do.

12 Four years ago this mayor wrote a

13 Recovery Plan that called for multiple years' wage

14 freeze for city employees. We, the union employees,

15 are in the fourth year of that wage freeze.

16 The Mayor immediately violated the

17 recovery plan by giving certain city employees raises,

18 some as much as $10,000 per year.

19 He also created new positions and hired

20 new employees at higher wages of existing city

21 employees at a cost of over $5 million through 2005.

22 He then blames the unions for an

23 increase in the deficit, which he created since he took

24 office with the $3 million surplus left over by the

25 previous mayor.


1 Look at it this wav, had the Mayor

2 abided by the Recovery Plan and didn't violate it by

3 giving raises to any city employee and by treating all

4 city employees equally and fairly, no one would have a

5 grip e.

6 There wouldn't be the labor unrest or

7 animosity that exists now. We could have saved a

8 million dollars by not giving Attorney Greco for

9 $100,000 contracts that turns out to be $512,000, or

10 created a public safety office.

11 We have city solicitors who could have

12 done the work that Attorney Greco does, and we could

13 have saved the $500,000 and more, since he is up before

14 Council for another contract, and this contract doesn't

15 have a value stamped on it.

16 The public safety office would have

17 saved $500,000, and that's an office that PEL, the

18 Pennsylvania Economy League, said we didn't need.

19 That's two examples of the irresponsible spending.

20 I could go on and on. So, when it is

21 said we should move on, I say it's not going to be easy

22 to forgive and forget. Once we are burned, the scar

23 remains.

24 Stranger things have happened, though.

25 The Mayor could start treating the employees that he


1 has treated poorly over the last four years better. He

2 could treat his employees equally and with respect, and

3 I repeat, equally and with respect.

4 We know what the Mayor thinks of the

5 majority of city employees. We got the hint when the

6 door to the mayor's office had the glass frosted.

7 From my point of view, I don't think

8 things will change. One reason for me thinking this

9 way is the amount of grievances and arbitrations that

10 have been filed over the last four years.

11 This administration constantly violates

12 the labor contracts and has last lost numerous

13 arbitrations because of its total disregard for the

14 unions. So much for moving on.

15 And I want to thank Council for the

16 letter to the mayor about the soldiers. I also don't

17 have any faith in a letter doing any good. So, I will

18 be coming here and asking Council to draft its own

19 legislation to pay these soldiers.

20 The zoo got $30,000 in 2003 and $50,000

21 each year since. So, we want to say the animals are

22 treated better.

23 And, also, that $72 million bond issue

24 in 2003, anybody know where that $20 million went, $72

25 million bond issue. $20 is not allocated. I'd like to


1 know, you know, if anybody could find out where that

2 $20 million -- what it was allocated for. Thank you.

3 MS. GATELLI: What year was that?

4 MR. ANCHERANI: 2003.

5 MS. GATELLI: Okay.

6 MR. ANCHERANI: Around August 2003, is

7 when the mayor signed it.

8 MS. GATELLI: $72 million?

9 MS. EVANS: Uh-huh.

10 MR. ANCHERANI: $72 million. Okay.

11 Thank you.

12 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else care to speak

13 before Council?

14 MS. GARVEY: 5-A, Motions.

15 MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Evans.

16 MS. EVANS: Good evening. City Council

17 considers an important vote tonight in seventh order.

18 The issue is to provide Attorney Greco with a new OECD

19 contract for $100,000.

20 On its own, this contract might not

21 raise eyebrows, but it's part of the bigger picture, a

22 picture that includes the manner in which this

23 administration awards contracts and conducts business.

24 It is indeed hair raising.

25 First, $770,000 was paid to Greco for a


1 part-time position from 2002 to October 2004; second,

2 it appears, in fact, I believe it was actually verified

3 this evening, that no requests for proposals were ever

4 issued for the five contracts that netted nearly

5 three-quarters of a million dollars; third, HUD monies

6 are used to pay for these contracts.

7 Prior to 2002 and the entrance of the

8 Doherty Administration, RFPs were advertised for these

9 same contracts, further, in more than one newspaper to

10 unsure that at least three proposals were submitted.

11 Why? In the event of an audit by HUD,

12 OECD and the Connors Administration wished to abide by

13 all HUD regulations and demonstrate proper procedures

14 and accountability.

15 Fourth, in two years and nine months,

16 one attorney, Mr. Greco, earned $770,000. In ten years

17 from 1991 through 2001, three law firms earned together

18 a total of $1.25 million in the same capacity.

19 Fifth, and equally important, no

20 contract was ever submitted to City Council between

21 October 2004 and January 2006. Mr. Doherty

22 circumvented City Council by allowing Attorney Greco to

23 continue as OECD solicitor without a contract. Why?

24 The City Council of 2004 and 2005 would not have

25 approved another contract that was handed out on a


1 silver platter to a campaign contributor to the Doherty

2 committee at such outlandish costs.

3 As soon as the makeup of Council

4 changed in January 2006, the contract flew to our

5 office.

6 Six, the specs on this request for

7 proposals, I submit, were specifically designed to fit

8 one and only one attorney, Mr. Greco, or so the legal

9 beagles thought. There was another attorney and law

10 firm who qualified, despite their attempts to do such.

11 Next, if these highly questionable

12 contracts were found to violate HUD regulations, CommD

13 funds very well would be withheld from Scranton,

14 thereby punishing the people and all the organizations

15 that serve our people, such as little leagues, football

16 leagues, senior citizens centers, homeless shelters,

17 neighborhood police and so much more.

18 Next, if we do a very quick calculation

19 at 1,000 hours worth of work, 800 of which will be

20 performed by the attorney, 200 by paralegals and their

21 staff, it appears that the difference between Mr. Greco

22 and the lowest responsible bidder is close to $18,000

23 annually.

24 Now, you may feel $18,000 is minimal

25 when looking at a long-term debt of over $220 million.


1 Why, it's certainly next to nothing. Many people would

2 argue that. Many people in the administration would

3 argue that. But the truth of the matter is, for many

4 Scrantonians, that is their annual salary, in fact,

5 that is above and beyond the annual salary of those who

6 work for the minimum wage. And for our senior

7 citizens, that is beyond many fixed incomes on which

8 they are forced to exist, and I do emphasize exist, not

9 live.

10 So, that is a meaningful amount of

11 money to some of us. And if we then take a look at the

12 number of years over which that savings could be

13 amassed or could have been and we add all of that

14 together, well, certainly it becomes a much more

15 significant and impressive savings.

16 So, I just have to wonder, When is City

17 Council going to side with the people instead of siding

18 with exorbitant costs and improprieties involving the

19 administration?

20 Now, on a much brighter note, I wish to

21 highly commend the Scranton Police force for their

22 superlative oversight of the annual St. Patrick's Day

23 parade. I believe our forces were strategically

24 stationed throughout the parade route, as well as the

25 city.


1 And from what I was able to observe,

2 the crowd control was superlative. I should also add

3 that our Scranton firefighters were quite breathtaking

4 in their dress blues, and how wonderful it was to see

5 children's eyes become the size of half dollars as they

6 watched fire engines drive down the street.

7 I also wish to recognize Chris Davis, a

8 Scranton policeman, for his outstanding work in

9 apprehending a suspect who robbed the Harbor House

10 about two weeks ago and who also tried to run Chris

11 down with his vehicle.

12 I think we very often, too often, take

13 for granted our police and our firefighters, and we

14 fail to thank them for the extra ordinary jobs they do

15 every day for us. So, tonight I thank you all.

16 I also had the distinct pleasure of

17 attending a recognition ceremony for the late Mike

18 Ferke, Scranton firefighter, at the union building last

19 night. Mike's wife, children, mother, siblings were

20 all present, as well as union leaders from every walk

21 of life. It was a privilege to see Mike Ferke

22 recognized as the first firefighter to join that plaque

23 of honor which memorializes union workers.

24 And I believe that Mike was watching

25 over his family last night and his union family, and he


1 was smiling.

2 Finally, I have a few citizens'

3 requests for the week. At the corner of North Rebecca

4 and Price Street, residents of the area request a

5 traffic study for the placement of a four-way stop

6 sign.

7 Albright Avenue before the bridge,

8 neighbors complain that these hills of dirt have become

9 a depository for various types of liter, including

10 broken glass, papers, abandon furniture, automotive

11 seats, et cetera.

12 Please clean the area, or if the city

13 is no longer responsible for the area, let us contact

14 the appropriate party and request the cleanup.

15 1511 South Irving Avenue, this request

16 was made more than six months ago, and that has been

17 forwarded. The problems there have been forwarded to

18 Mr. Fiorini.

19 The corner of Quincy Avenue and Myrtle

20 Street, which was discussed earlier tonight, that is

21 the precise location of the placement of a three-way

22 stop sign.

23 The Tripp Park Playground, residents of

24 Tripp Park report that the trees are being destroyed by

25 teenagers. Also teens are using the playground


1 equipment, despite posted signs which indicate that

2 users must be between the ages of six and 12.

3 Residents request that police patrol

4 the playground in order to prevent taxpayers'

5 investments for the neighborhood children from being

6 wasted.

7 And the residents of East Mountain made

8 the following requests, A stop sign on Lilac Lane at

9 the intersection with Mountain Lake Road, and a stop

10 sign is needed on Mountain Lake Road instead of its

11 current location on Yesu Drive. Please remove the sign

12 from Yesu and place on Mountain Lake Road to improve

13 visibility and increase safety.

14 I am also compiling a paving list for

15 city streets. Scranton residents can E-mail their

16 suggestions for street paving to me at

17 www.janettomkoevans.com. And that's it.

18 MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Fanucci.

19 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I only have two

20 issues tonight. Obviously we have to discuss the Carl

21 Greco contract. This decision is pretty clear cut to

22 me, only for one reason.

23 The Home Rule Charter states the mayor

24 has right to chose counsel, his own counsel, as we

25 would want our own choice of counsel, as we did pick


1 our own choice for City Council, and you at home chose

2 your lawyers.

3 It's not something that someone else

4 can impose on you or decide for you who you need. It's

5 like me coming into your house and saying, You know

6 what, it's great that you like this person, but, you

7 know what, here's who you should use. It's not going

8 to happen.

9 Unfortunately, now, whether or not I

10 believe in his choice, it doesn't matter. It is his

11 choice. He is the Mayor, he was voted mayor, it is his

12 decision.

13 We did ask for an RFP, and by rights he

14 really didn't have to do it. It was a request by

15 Council, and he accommodated that, and that is all I

16 have on that. I can't -- I mean, to debate

17 personalities and classes and who has what and who

18 doesn't, I don't feel that as a Councilperson that is

19 my call.

20 My call is to say the taxpayers are

21 getting their money's worth. The bid was a good bid.

22 Are they getting their hourly rate that's fair? Yes,

23 they are. And as far as I'm concerned, that was

24 satisfied. That's all I have on Mr. Greco's contract.

25 Now, my community development comments


1 last week sparked a lot, and I'm sorry for that. I do

2 not feel, again, community development is a class

3 issue. My thoughts are, and maybe I am wrong, but this

4 is how I feel, that when we build buildings and we

5 build businesses, and we are here for businesses, that

6 it is a development for everyone.

7 People can get jobs, which is, I think,

8 great for the future. I don't know. Maybe that's

9 something that I'm just seeing, but I believe that

10 opportunity is everyone's. It's not just certain

11 classes, and it's not just certain people. Opportunity

12 is for everyone.

13 So, the more we build, yes, I believe

14 that that is a wonderful thing. Everyone will benefit

15 from more jobs, I would imagine.

16 More development equals more jobs.

17 Why? Because as I said last week, builders and

18 painters and contractors and computer guys, they all

19 get jobs for one little development.

20 So, maybe we're not seeing the way that

21 -- or maybe I'm not seeing it the way you're seeing it,

22 but I don't believe that's something that stops certain

23 people.

24 I do apologize for last week if you

25 felt that that was something that was against you in a


1 way. I didn't mean that. It was more of my

2 frustration with the development.

3 I believe we need to invest in our own

4 city, in our people here. So, maybe we haven't done

5 that in the past and put a lot of money into economic

6 development, and that is very scary for the taxpayers,

7 but you need to invest. That is investing in you.

8 It's investing in all the people who live in this city,

9 because we are saying we believe in you, that you are

10 good enough and you deserve much more. And that's how

11 I feel about it. I don't feel that it's for certain

12 people. I feel it's for everyone. And I do believe in

13 investing in our taxpayers and saying, You know what,

14 you're good for everything. We're going to bring

15 everything here. That's what I meant by let's move on.

16 Let's not keep doing the same things, because the same

17 things create the same outcomes, and the same outcome

18 has not been what we want. We want different outcomes.

19 We want new. So, that was just my thoughts.

20 And I did spark a lot, but I did get a

21 wonderful positive feedback all during the week, also.

22 So, I mean, obviously both sides to every issue.

23 I think we are doing wonderful things

24 here. The communication has opened up in ways that

25 have really made us progress, and I do not want to stop


1 that.

2 We're not going to agree with everyone,

3 as we know, and we are going disagree. There are a lot

4 of things that have come up that I, you know, I might

5 not see the way you see, but I think the exchange is

6 what's going to make us open up and move on, so that is

7 another thing that I meant by let's move on.

8 I'm going to talk a tiny bit on the --

9 the letter that we wanted to put out to the mayor and

10 why I didn't vote on that.

11 I have -- I've been attending all these

12 meetings for the pension, and I've been attending

13 everyone -- I've talked to everyone who put in bids for

14 the pension and talked to the pension board and met

15 with Terry Osborne.

16 The reason I did not vote on that

17 letter is because, once again, the pension board is an

18 advisory board, and they're wonderful, and I know and I

19 believe that they know their business.

20 But, once again, at the end of the day,

21 the people who are going to have to pay if that is not

22 the right contract or they don't -- the mayor and the

23 taxpayers are the one who's going to have to come up

24 with the money.

25 So, do I think it's wrong? No. Do I


1 think Mellon Bank is wrong? Absolutely not. They were

2 a wonderful bid. There was a lot of wonderful bids.

3 But, again, I'm not going to make that call.

4 I'm just not going to force someone's

5 hand. I think that I would like to see -- what I would

6 like to see is them work together, the administration,

7 and all of them sit down and say, Let's work this out

8 and let's figure out the best way for all of us.

9 So, that is my intention. I would like

10 to see everyone sit down and say, Let's work this out

11 and let's figure this out together, instead of playing

12 this back and forth, because this back and forth,

13 again, we get nowhere. So, that is my reasoning, and

14 that's all I have. So, thank you.

15 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Mr.

16 McTiernan.

17 MR. MCTIERNAN: Thank you,

18 Mrs. Gatelli. I would just like to make mention of our

19 girls basketball team again who had a very successful

20 run through the Pennsylvania state basketball

21 tournament, and I don't want to make a motion, but just

22 for our consideration possibly to bring those ladies in

23 and their coaches for an accommodation on our behalf so

24 we can consider that later.

25 And I would like to also thank members


1 of the student representatives for City Council on

2 trying to put together meetings that we'll have at the

3 high schools where we can get student input as to their

4 concerns regarding the community.

5 And finally, I would like to thank

6 Kevin Jones and Matt Butler for spearheading the effort

7 in placing the four telescreens in the Scranton High

8 School cafe. Thank you very much. And that's all I

9 have, Mrs. Gatelli.

10 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Courtright.

11 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. As I did

12 last week and the week before, and I'll probably do the

13 upcoming weeks, I've been getting E-mails about roads

14 that need to be paved and calls, and I've tried to get

15 out to whatever ones people call me on and take a look

16 at them myself personally, but, Kay, if we can add the

17 1100 and 1200 block of Watson Street for paving, and

18 the 800 and 900 block of Ferdinand Avenue, I believe

19 it's the 800 and 900 block. If Mr. Parker needs a

20 reference point, there's a new pizza place there,

21 Pepper's Pizza, that's in pretty rough shape.

22 This morning I witnessed John Piso and

23 Jerry Shalk, and I believe the other guy's name is

24 Gene, they were patching potholes in West Scranton, and

25 I was watching to see how they did. I figured they


1 just take the stuff out the back of the truck, throw it

2 in a hole and take off, but there's a rather large one

3 at the corner of Scranton Street and Main Avenue, and

4 they really took their time and they did an excellent

5 job, and I just want to thank them for the job they're

6 doing.

7 It was brought to my attention this

8 morning, and this time by Mr. Joe Meilo, first by our

9 own Chrissy Sledzinski, and again today by Joe Mielo,

10 on the corner, Kay, of Jackson and Main Avenue, the

11 catch basin there just keeps getting worse and worse.

12 They've got to try and do something

13 with it. So, I would imagine maybe we can go to both

14 Mr. Parker and the Sewer Authority to see who's

15 responsible for that.

16 Les Spindler, I believe he's left,

17 hasn't he? He brought up a couple weeks about a truck

18 parked on Mulberry Street. The police department had

19 gone out previously and checked on it, and they went

20 back again either yesterday, yesterday, I believe it

21 was, and they sent me a letter.

22 And although there's no sign there

23 saying no parking, they believe there might have been

24 one there at one time, and for whatever reason it was

25 removed. There was a Sunoco gas station there at the


1 time. And it's the traffic division's thought that if

2 that's Sunoco station opens up again and that truck is

3 parked there, it's going to create a hazard.

4 So, what they have done is they sent a

5 letter down to Mr. Parker asking to have that sign

6 replaced, and hopefully, Les, then that truck won't be

7 parked there any longer.

8 And Mrs. Gatelli brought up earlier, I

9 mentioned last week about Elm Street, hoping to get it

10 cleaned up, and evidently they did it. I haven't

11 gotten down there to see it, but I'm assuming it was

12 the DPW, and I greatly appreciate it, and the people

13 that called me on it, I'm sure they greatly appreciate

14 it. And that's all I have. Thank you.

15 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Well, the

16 only thing I have is Mr. Greco. I cannot attest to

17 what Mr. Greco has done before I got here. I did see

18 some of his bills that we had received from Roseann

19 Novembrino that weren't paid, you know, the list of

20 vouchers.

21 I recalled from when I worked in OECD,

22 that they did not seem as though they were out of line.

23 Although if that came down here for payment, I would

24 have voted against it, because he did not have a

25 contract at the time.


1 I cannot account for the Mayor having

2 done such a thing, paying him all that while over and

3 beyond the $100,000. I don't know how that was done

4 without Council's approval. I thought that Council

5 approved all the bills, so I don't know how that got

6 past Council with him paying those bills that were

7 beyond the $100,000.

8 When I was here and the $100,000 ran

9 out before the year was up, we had to put another

10 contract out for the lawyer. So, I don't truly

11 understand how he had gotten away with that.

12 It is true that Mr. Hughes worked on

13 the mall. In the year that he worked on the mall in

14 1991, he received $350,000, and rightfully so. I am

15 not saying that he did not deserve that money, he

16 certainly did. We worked night and day relocating 35

17 businesses on Lackawanna Avenue, and there was a lot of

18 litigation and eminent domain and settlements, et

19 cetera, et cetera.

20 The years beyond that from '95, I

21 think, to 2000, he made $675,000, during which time

22 there was not a lot of economic development projects.

23 I do agree that the Mayor has to work

24 with someone that he's comfortable with. It is his

25 prerogative to pick his attorneys. I am very, very


1 grateful that he took advice to have this put out to

2 bid, and I am the one that asked him to please start

3 putting everything out to bid, and he has so far

4 cooperated with that idea. Several weeks ago we

5 approved a contract for Ceco, and that also was put out

6 to bid.

7 So, I don't want to prejudge Mr. Greco.

8 I don't know the man. He did not contribute to my

9 campaign. Does he have a Mercedes? Maybe. I don't

10 know what the other lawyer drives. I drive a Lexus.

11 It's a 1997, but, you know, people can look at me and

12 say, Wow, look at her, she has a Lexus.

13 That doesn't mean that I don't care

14 about the taxpayers in the City of Scranton, because I

15 do. My mother-in-law lives on a fixed income. So, I

16 am sensitive to that.

17 But I do think that these -- both of

18 these prices were in the ballpark. I don't see them

19 being exorbitant for an attorney. For any of you that

20 ever called an attorney to work for you, they'll charge

21 you a lot more than this, I'll guarantee you.

22 So, I am going to go along with

23 Attorney Greco. I would recommend to the Mayor that

24 the $100,000 better last a year.

25 And I hope he's listening or Mr. Greco


1 is listening or whoever has to listen, because I

2 understand that it's for a year or $100,000, but I

3 expect the $100,000 to last the year, and then I don't

4 really have a problem with it.

5 And I'm sorry if some of the people

6 don't agree with me on this, and that you think I'm a

7 rubber stamp for the mayor, but you'll have to just see

8 the other work that I do in the community and on this

9 Council, and not just judge a person because they vote

10 for a certain person.

11 I have been very sensitive to the

12 unions, I go to the taxpayers meetings, and I will

13 always vote for the people.

14 This is not exorbitant in opinion. The

15 two lawyers were within $5 of each other. Mr. Greco

16 has been working with the mayor for four years. He's

17 familiar with the projects.

18 And it is nothing against Boyd Hughes.

19 He's a very dear friend of mine, and we worked very

20 closely for three years during the mall with

21 Attorney Minora.

22 So, it is -- I hope that Mr. Hughes

23 does not take it as a personal affront, because I

24 certainly don't mean it that way.

25 And he is working for the Lackawanna


1 County Redevelopment Authority presently, and I'm sure

2 he's doing a wonderful job there, and will continue in

3 that capacity. And I think that's about all I have to

4 say. Thank you very much.

5 MS. GARVEY: Fifth order. No business

6 at this time. Sixth order. 6-A, READING BY TITLE -






12 MS. GATELLI: You've heard reading by

13 title of Item 6-A, what is your pleasure?

14 MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item 6-A

15 pass reading by title.

16 MR. MCTIERNAN: Second.

17 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: On the question,

19 Mrs. Gatelli. I had planned on asking to table this,

20 because I thought we would have talked about this

21 earlier in caucus and we ran a little late, so we

22 didn't have a caucus. I do have concerns.

23 Some were answered by the attorney

24 earlier this evening. My concern, number one, was that

25 the residents are satisfied with what was going to go


1 in there, and he said he would make every effort to

2 speak to them, and I would make some effort to speak

3 myself to speak to the residents, and I will be curious

4 to see the recommendation come down from the planning

5 commission, and that's what I'll base my decision on

6 next week, so I'm willing to vote yes in favor for this

7 evening, but I would like to get some more information

8 before I make my final vote next week.

9 MS. EVANS: Like Mr. Courtright, I have

10 concerns with this legislation for the residents of

11 that area. I also have a concern that this was not

12 recommended by the Scranton Planning Commission, and I

13 frankly would prefer that it would be tabled for a week

14 until the planning commission hold its meeting and

15 until we can hear from the residents of Cedar Avenue

16 and the entire area as to their feelings now that they

17 know what the projects will actually become.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: Maybe what we can do

19 is being we didn't table it this week, if we're not

20 satisfied by next week, we can table it next week, you

21 know, because we've already gone by. So, we missed our

22 opportunity, but I would be more than willing to make a

23 motion next week if we're not satisfied to table it

24 until we get the answers we need to get so that all

25 concerned are satisfied.


1 MR. MCTIERNAN: I agree with Mrs. Evans

2 and Mr. Courtright that we need some satisfactory

3 communication.

4 And it sounded as though we were

5 talking a lot about dollars and cents, and from what I

6 was gathering from the residents, it just seemed to be

7 a level of communication that was missing. And I may

8 have misread it, I don't think so, though.

9 Mrs. Pocius was pretty clear when she

10 spoke that she thought it was an interesting project,

11 but she just needed to know details.

12 And I couldn't help but feel a little

13 pressure as we were getting the repeated safety comment

14 and the dollar figure. I heard that the first time. I

15 heard the safety comment the first time, and I just

16 couldn't help but feel a little bit of bully coming

17 out.

18 And I think all you really need to do

19 is talk to the residents if we're satisfied that

20 they've been communicated with. I only need to hear

21 that one time.

22 So, my only recommendation is a

23 conversation that happens with those folks, and I

24 encourage the residents of that area to attend next

25 week's meeting to let us know that they've been


1 satisfied with the communications.

2 So, I would be voting yes this week,

3 but I would be voting to table next week if we didn't

4 have that communication. And that's all, Mrs. Gatelli.

5 MS. GATELLI: Okay. I just want to

6 make sure -- I agree with the three people ahead of me,

7 ditto. We certainly have to know how the neighbors

8 feel. And I know that if you have successful

9 negotiations with them and open it up to make that area

10 commercial, then we're going to have more neighbors

11 coming here, because the other neighbors abutting that

12 rear property may not want it to be commercial.

13 So, I suggest that you possibly meet

14 with all the neighbors back there and let them know

15 what you're doing. It's always better, you know, to be

16 upfront with them.

17 Being a neighborhood president, I'll

18 tell you that, you know, you going to them and setting

19 up a little meeting will go a long way and explain

20 everything to them beforehand.

21 MR. MCTIERNAN: I just want to -- I

22 don't want to come off sounding negative to the

23 developers. I want to state specifically that I'm very

24 happy that you folks are interested in spending money

25 in the community and developing in the community, just


1 not what maybe the neighbors are feeling, maybe not

2 what you're doing, but what they're feeling, rough shot

3 over.

4 So, I want to thank you for investing

5 and having the interest in our community. I do not

6 want to sound negative at all. Just encouraging you to

7 participate in some good communication with those

8 residents. Thank you.

9 MS. FANUCCI: I think my feeling is

10 that the fear is worse than the actual -- I mean, we

11 always are afraid, we take the worst. So, once they

12 know exactly what you're going to do, that'll take away

13 their fear, and maybe that is the issue.

14 So, I do agree with everyone, that

15 maybe the communication just needs to be open up, and

16 obviously it has, because we have less people here

17 tonight than we had had last week.

18 But if you do that between now and next

19 week, that will really, really change the way that this

20 project can go.

21 MS. GATELLI: All in favor.

22 MS. EVANS: Aye.





1 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

2 have it and so moved.







9 13509-030-023.

10 MS. GATELLI: You've heard reading by

11 title, what is your pleasure?

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item 6-B

13 pass reading by title.

14 MS. EVANS: Second.

15 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

16 those in favor, signify by saying aye.

17 MS. EVANS: Aye.




21 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

22 have it and so moved.













9 MS. GATELLI: What is the

10 recommendation of the chairperson on public works?

11 MS. EVANS: As chair for the committee

12 on public works, I recommend final passage of Item 7-A.


14 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Just on

15 the question, I would like you to make a recommendation

16 that the mayor pave Dix Court. It's in terrible

17 condition.

18 MS. EVANS: I'll add that to my paving

19 list that I'm submitting to you then.

20 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Anyone

21 else? Roll call.

22 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

23 MS. EVANS: Yes.

24 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.



1 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.


3 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


5 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

6 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare

7 7-A legally and lawfully adopted.











18 MS. GATELLI: What is the

19 recommendation of the chairperson on committee

20 development?

21 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: As chair for the

22 committee on community development, I recommend final

23 passage of Item 7-B.

24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.

25 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Roll


1 call.

2 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

3 MS. EVANS: Yes.

4 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.


6 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.


8 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


10 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

11 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare

12 Item 7-B legally and lawfully adopted.










22 MS. GATELLI: What is the

23 recommendation of the chairperson on committee

24 development?

25 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: As chairperson on


1 the committee for community development, I recommend

2 final passage of Item 7-C.


4 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Roll

5 call.

6 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

7 MS. EVANS: Yes.

8 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.


10 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.


12 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


14 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

15 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare

16 Item 7-C legally and lawfully adopted.













3 MS. GATELLI: As chairperson for the

4 committee on rules, I recommend final passage of 7-D.

5 MR. MCTIERNAN: Second.

6 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

7 MS. EVANS: Yes. First of all, I

8 believe it was indicated a bit earlier this evening

9 that the Mayor has the right to choose his own

10 attorneys, and to a certain extent indeed that is true,

11 however, this is not a position that can be categorized

12 as his attorney.

13 This is the solicitorship of the OECD.

14 OECD is funded by housing and urban development, which

15 in turn is funded by your taxes, federal taxes.

16 So, you see, this is not precisely the

17 mayor's attorney. In fact, the city solicitor is

18 Attorney Farrell assisted by a number of assistant city

19 solicitors, including Attorney Kelly, Attorney Butler,

20 Attorney Hickey, perhaps more.

21 Now, if you are to examine the, and

22 that would be, of course, Council that I am addressing,

23 if you are to examine the evaluation of the two

24 proposals, I find it questionable that of 11

25 categories, Mr. Greco received a perfect rating in ten


1 of eleven. It's a good thing it wasn't 11 of 11, or we

2 might think he's God.

3 Mr. Hughes, on the other hand, received

4 only four top ratings in 11 categories, and they vary

5 from that point downward to an absolute low of one in

6 one category.

7 And who wrote the specs? The same

8 individual who made the decision on the proposal, who

9 also happens to be the same individual who came before

10 Council tonight to justify that decision. I also

11 believe, as I stated before, that spec four amounts to

12 rigging.

13 And in addition, I would add 11 to

14 that. I think we should not be so laissez-faire with

15 the people's money.

16 And as I said before, I wish Council

17 would do the right thing and do something for the

18 people of this city just once.

19 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else?

20 MS. EVANS: In fact, if I might add, we

21 have, which was discussed earlier, but the audience was

22 not privy to that, our Council solicitor, Attorney

23 Minora, is a former solicitor to OECD, and according to

24 the specs that were quite selectively created for this

25 proposal, this fine attorney and gentleman would not


1 have qualified for this particular proposal, according

2 to the fourth spec.

3 And this is a man who knows that

4 business quite well and who served in that precise

5 capacity for a number of years, yet he would have been

6 disoccluded from this process.

7 It's unconscionable. And if it isn't

8 transparent to everyone, I don't know what could be.

9 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Minora, do you think

10 that these specs are illegal?

11 MR. MINORA: Illegal? No, not illegal.

12 MS. GATELLI: Do you think that they're

13 done specifically for one person to get the bid?

14 MR. MINORA: No. I would say that they

15 were easier for someone who was already in the position

16 to qualify, but I think that would be the case no

17 matter what you chose.

18 A person who's already in that capacity

19 would obviously have more recent experience, be up to

20 date on the newest HUD regulations. Those are not

21 things that you'd read on a regular basis as a lawyer.

22 So, to the extent that someone was in

23 there, anybody in that position would have a more

24 favorable way of writing his RFP.

25 I think that just stands to reason, and


1 I don't think it would change no matter if it was Carl

2 Greco or, you know, Belspar, Ingersolrand, or our firm.

3 It wouldn't change.

4 They were reasonable. I thought they

5 were reasonable requests. I may have written them

6 differently, but I wouldn't say they're unreasonable.

7 MS. EVANS: When you applied for that

8 position, were you required to have three years'

9 experience in the last three years?

10 MR. MINORA: To be perfectly honest, I

11 don't remember, but, but, I was in the unique position

12 of having been city solicitor and supervised the prior

13 OECD counsel, so I had that same advantage when I

14 applied or for my RFP or our firm's RFP back in '94, so

15 it was to my advantage then, it's to Mr. Greco's

16 advantage now, but that's just the way it is.

17 If Mr. Farrell left the job as city

18 solicitor, he would have that same advantage.

19 MS. EVANS: But what is curious is that

20 the handling of CDBG and UDAG funds, which, of course,

21 is included in the specs, that can only be -- that type

22 of experience, rather, can only be achieved by

23 attorneys working for a municipality or a county

24 government. Boroughs, townships, et cetera, I believe,

25 don't get involved in that, as much as municipalities


1 and counties.

2 And the mere fact that this position

3 was advertised in only one newspaper, The Scranton

4 Times, it's no wonder that only two proposals came in,

5 because, of course, when you have specs that are

6 written in quite that way, it certainly eliminates the

7 competition.

8 And as I stated to you earlier, I

9 received several phone calls from attorneys throughout

10 the area who felt this was rigged, that they could

11 never have qualified for this position as it was

12 written, not all of it, but in those two issues.

13 MR. MINORA: Well, I can certainly

14 understand their frustration, but I don't think you'd

15 just have to work for a municipality or the City of

16 Scranton. As a matter of fact, I think --

17 MS. EVANS: Or the county.

18 MR. MINORA: Mr. Hailstone did a great

19 deal of bank work and had not, if I recall, now, we're

20 going back 15 or 16 years, but my recollection is that

21 he had done a great deal of bank work and had done a

22 lot of development work, real estate development work

23 and banking work which were very similar in terms of

24 financing, how they financed.

25 There was public financing involved


1 with that, so he brought those assets to his RFP, but

2 they were not from having worked in a municipality,

3 they were from having worked in a private sector.

4 It's more difficult, I don't disagree

5 with that, it's more specialized, but I think that job

6 is specialized no matter what. It's not something most

7 lawyers do on a day to day basis.

8 MS. EVANS: But you know what I'm

9 hearing you say? When Attorney Hailstone submitted his

10 proposal, when I submitted my proposal, so there was

11 quite obviously a history of advertising for proposals,

12 which came to a screeching halt in 2002.

13 MR. MINORA: We did proposals all the

14 time.

15 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, we did.

16 MR. MINORA: More than one a year, more

17 than one a year often.

18 MS. NEALON FANUCCI; My only sealer on

19 this was to seal the whole proposal.

20 Yeah, I believe anybody -- we could

21 look at this and interpret it any way. All of the

22 questions -- let's say that everyone scored the same,

23 the both two applicants were exactly even, there was

24 one that wasn't, and it was not in the hands of the

25 people who made the proposal.


1 That was a question that was proposed

2 to the other attorneys, that rank themselves, and that

3 was the one, because it had nothing to do with anyone

4 else. They ranked themselves, and I don't know, were

5 you not here for this part, what it was is that they

6 send out things to the attorneys and you actually rank

7 other city attorneys.

8 MS. GATELLI: The AV, the ranking and

9 the ethics.

10 MR. MINORA: Yes. There is a

11 publication, and, you know, theoretically you're ranked

12 by your peers.

13 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Okay. So, this is

14 where, I mean, both of them had scored different

15 scores, both very ethical, and one separate from the

16 other, and the scores with their own attorneys. So,

17 that was something that was on the list that has

18 nothing to do with anyone that's in the city. So, I

19 mean, except for their attorneys, you know. And that

20 wasn't our call.

21 MS. GATELLI: And someone else

22 mentioned about him up at the library trying to take

23 Channel 61 off the air, and I'll tell you, if that ever

24 happens, this Council, I'm sure, there would be five

25 votes here to go to court or whatever we had to do to


1 make sure that that didn't happen.

2 I mean, that is the only way that

3 people find out about everything, their government, the

4 taxpayers, the county, even some nice things that

5 happen in the schools, some artists that do poetry on

6 there, et cetera. So, I frankly don't care what he

7 says to the library board, because that ain't going to

8 happen, not as long as I have a breathe in me.

9 And, you know, I don't want to penalize

10 him for that reason, but, Mrs. Krake, that won't

11 happen. And everyone up here, I'm sure, feels the same

12 way about Channel 61.

13 MS. EVANS: I feel the same way as

14 Mrs. Gatelli, however, I don't feel that a motion made

15 unanimously by City Council would prevent the shutdown

16 of Channel 61. We have no power over that. And in

17 addition --

18 MS. GATELLI: I think incorporated,

19 Channel 61.

20 MS. EVANS: We don't fund it.

21 MS. GATELLI: Well, we'll fund it with

22 block grant money.



25 MS. EVANS: Well, I don't think there's


1 going to be too much UDAG left, because it seems to

2 have --

3 MS. GATELLI: Well, we'll use block

4 grant. I'm sure it's eligible. It's a public

5 activity.

6 MS. EVANS: I would like to say that

7 that could happen, but I think we've seen so many times

8 that -- well, bottom line, it's the administration's

9 way or the highway.

10 So, if that's what they want to happen,

11 eventually that's what's going to happen. Just like if

12 they want Carl Greco, they'll have Carl Greco.

13 Whatever the people want or feel is irrelevant.

14 MS. GATELLI: I don't agree with that.

15 There are certain things that the mayor does have

16 prerogative over. There are certain things he can do,

17 certain things he can spend, certain people he can

18 hire. We don't have to agree with that, and I don't

19 agree with a lot of it, and I will be here for the

20 budget next year, I wasn't here for the budget this

21 year, but I certainly don't approve for those paw

22 raises for those people, et cetera, but to me the

23 bottom line is that the mayor does have certain

24 latitude. We have a strong mayor form of government,

25 and until that's changed, you know, he was elected and


1 he's allowed to do certain things.

2 And unless I want to change it, then

3 I'm going to run for mayor and then I can range it.

4 But, you know, Council is limited with a lot of the

5 things we can do. That's all I can say on that. I

6 mean, I'm going to --

7 MS. EVANS: I agree he has the right to

8 choose city solicitor, assistant city solicitors, et

9 cetera, but this is a vote that comes before Council

10 for its approval or denial, and three votes denying

11 this --

12 MS. GATELLI: And then what?

13 MS. EVANS: End it.

14 MS. GATELLI: And then what?

15 MS. EVANS: And then --

16 MS. GATELLI: And then what? We hire

17 Boyd Hughes?

18 MS. EVANS: Or you can put it out for

19 RFPs again if you'd like.

20 MS. GATELLI: And then what happens to

21 all the projects that are happening?

22 MS. EVANS: Oh, I don't think any of

23 them will stop. They're always full steam ahead, but

24 none of them seem to come out or rather reach fruition

25 in terms of the glorious picture that's been painted


1 about them, or they do not seem to actually appear

2 according to a timeline.

3 Case in point, I mentioned earlier this

4 evening that the Medallion Garage was scheduled for a

5 March 2006 opening, and promised to the Hilton Hotel as

6 part of those negotiations that occurred in 2005, and

7 you better drive by Adams venue and take a look at

8 where this project is right now.

9 MS. GATELLI: Sherry's asking a

10 question, because we weren't here, and we don't --

11 we're not familiar with that project.

12 MS. GATELLI: Well, any other on the

13 question? I'm going to give Mr. Greco a chance and I

14 hope he doesn't disappoint me, because he will be very

15 sorry.

16 And I would like, once we vote on this,

17 Kay, I want you to put a letter on there to the Mayor

18 that I do not expect Mr. Greco to surpass $100,000

19 before the year is up, please. I know that doesn't

20 appease a lot of the people in the audience, but it

21 will make me happy.

22 MS. EVANS: I just wonder how many of

23 you -- how many of you would like a part-time position

24 that's going to pay a million dollars over five years,

25 part-time job, and over eight years, God knows what.


1 MS. GATELLI: But, Mrs. Evans, you're

2 failing to tell them that if it's not him, it's going

3 to be someone else making $100,000 for the year.

4 MS. EVANS: Or maybe they would

5 actually provide a lower bid, as did Hughes, Nichols

6 and O'Hara. Maybe it would be significantly lower if

7 it had ever been advertised in newspapers outside of

8 Scranton.

9 MS. GATELLI: I think if it were

10 advertised in newspapers outside of Scranton, as in New

11 York and Philadelphia, I think it would be double.

12 MS. EVANS: And there are many, many

13 cities throughout Pennsylvania and New York,

14 New Jersey that are not the size of New York and

15 Philadelphia where young attorneys or those with maybe

16 ten years experience would be tickled to come in and

17 tackle this task.

18 MS. GATELLI: I'm not going to keep

19 debating it. I worked in OECD. I know the expertise

20 of the work that's involved. It's not just a lawyer,

21 you know, it's not a new lawyer out of school, it's

22 someone that has to be very seasoned and seasoned in

23 municipalities and eminent domain, et cetera, et

24 cetera.

25 MS. EVANS: And that is very true, but


1 there's one ingredient missing, seasoned in campaign

2 contributions.

3 MS. GATELLI: Well, many times people

4 go against people for political reasons, so that could

5 be the case, too.

6 MS. EVANS: Well, the one thing I've

7 learned in my time on Council is, though, I'll admit I

8 never worked in OECD, but I've spent all these months

9 and these years working very hard for the people of

10 this city and staying in touch with them, personally,

11 visiting their homes, attending all of their functions,

12 answering their phone calls, answering their E-mails,

13 and I feel that I've got my finger on that pulse, and I

14 know the problems and I know the situations and I know

15 what many, many, many, of them want, and I have year

16 after year after year now, and I see my job as casting

17 their vote. My vote is their vote. My job is not just

18 to represent the Mayor and provide him with whatever he

19 would like.

20 MS. GATELLI: I could go on until

21 midnight with you, Mrs. Evans. I really --

22 MS. EVANS: Me, too.

23 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, but I resent you

24 saying things of that nature, that you're inferring

25 that I don't represent the people.


1 MS. EVANS: No. I'm only stating what

2 I do.

3 MS. GATELLI: I have fought for the

4 people in South Scranton for 25 years, and I have the

5 pulse of the people in South Scranton, and I get

6 E-mails every day that I'm doing a wonderful job, and I

7 would hope that people would have faith in me that I am

8 making this right decision.

9 I am not voting against Carl Greco

10 because I hate Chris Doherty.

11 MS. EVANS: And I'm not either.

12 MS. GATELLI: I was on a commercial for

13 Gary DiBileo, but the election is over. We need to

14 move forward, as Mrs. Fanucci said.

15 And I am not going to carry that water

16 for the next four years. I want to see the city move

17 forward. The two bids were for $105 an hour and $100

18 an hour. There wasn't a lot of difference in the bids,

19 and that is why I'm voting.

20 But, please, don't infer that I have

21 not worked for my community, because I'll fight you

22 tooth and nail on that one.

23 MS. EVANS: Well, I'm sorry that you're

24 interpreting an inference. I was speaking only of

25 myself and the fact that I serve all the people of the


1 City of Scranton, not just one area.

2 But, you know, beyond that, I'm also

3 very glad to hear you say that you don't hate the

4 Mayor, nor do I. I don't hate anyone, but I believe I

5 have to do the right thing. It's as simple as that.

6 I'm just doing the right thing.

7 MS. GATELLI: Who has approved

8 Mr. Greco's bills for the last four years? Who has

9 approved his bills?

10 MS. EVANS: The Council prior to -- the

11 Council prior to the seating of Mr. Courtright and

12 myself.

13 MS. GATELLI: You never voted on any of

14 his bills?

15 MR. EVANS: No.

16 MS. GATELLI: Good for you --

17 MS. EVANS: I wonder why that was.

18 MS. GATELLI: -- that you didn't,

19 because I didn't vote on his contract either when he

20 didn't have a contract. I didn't approve that either.

21 We sent it back as soon as we got here.

22 MS. EVANS: You weren't here.

23 MS. GATELLI: It came down when we got

24 here.

25 MS. EVANS: Uh-huh. But what I'm


1 saying in the bulk of that time, we sat here.

2 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't want to

3 prolong this, this, in my opinion, has gone on way too

4 long, but we didn't have an opportunity to vote on it.

5 It's just the contract just went on without us having

6 any say. She's right in that respect. It never came

7 before us. I'm losing my voice. Sorry.

8 MS. GATELLI: Well, that's a shame,

9 because it should have come before you. Absolutely, it

10 should have come before City Council.

11 MS. EVANS: And what would, let's say

12 this were to happen again next year, what could we do

13 to make that contract come down? We can't even make

14 legislation come down for a pension board's selection

15 of a pension manager.

16 MS. GATELLI: Well, we would refuse to

17 pay the bill. If it comes down, we'll refuse to pay

18 the bill.

19 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mrs. Novembrino

20 refused to pay his bill, and then I assume we will be

21 going to court now.

22 MS. EVANS: Well, he can't go to court,

23 Mr. Courtright, because then he would be suing the

24 city, and that's outlawed, according to his proposal.

25 MS. GATELLI: So, he'll just have to


1 eat that. All right. Anyone else on the question?

2 The game is starting in three minutes.

3 MR. LYMAN: What if --

4 MS. GATELLI: You're not allowed to

5 talk from the audience. Thank you. Anyone else? On

6 Roll call.

7 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

8 MS. EVANS: No.

9 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.


11 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.


13 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


15 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

16 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare

17 7-D legally and lawfully adopted. A motion to adjourn.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

19 MS. EVANS: Second.








1 C E R T I F I C A T E


3 I hereby certify that the proceedings and

4 evidence are contained fully and accurately in the

5 notes taken by me on the hearing of the above cause and

6 that this copy is a correct transcript of the same

7 to the best of my ability.



11 Official Court Reporter