2 SCRANTON CITY COUNCIL MEETING
7 Thursday, March 16, 2006
11 6:30 p.m.
15 Council Chambers
16 Scranton City Hall
17 340 North Washington Avenue
18 Scranton, Pennsylvania
23 Lisa M. Graff, RMR
24 Court Reporter
1 CITY OF SCRANTON COUNCIL:
3 MS. JUDY GATELLI, COUNCIL PRESIDENT
5 MR. WILLIAM COURTRIGHT, VICE-PRESIDENT
7 MS. JANET EVANS
9 MS. SHERRY NEALON FANUCCI
11 MR. ROBERT McTIERNAN
13 MR. AMIL MINORA, ESQUIRE, SOLICITOR
15 MS. KAY GARVEY, CITY CLERK
17 MR. NEIL COOLICAN, ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
1 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Please stand for
2 the Pledge Of Allegiance. Please remain standing for a
3 moment of reflection. Roll call, please.
4 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.
5 MS. EVANS: Here.
6 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.
7 MS. FANUCCI: Here.
8 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.
9 MR. MCTIERNAN: Here.
10 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.
11 MR. COURTRIGHT: Here.
12 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.
13 MS. GATELLI: Here. We'll dispense
14 with the reading of the minutes. And tonight we have a
15 proclamation for a football player from West Scranton
16 High School. Asa, if you would like to come up with
17 your mom and your coach. Anyone else that would like
18 to come down can.
19 Whereas, the Council of the City of
20 Scranton is desirous of honoring Asa Lucas, who is the
21 son of Robert and Lisa Lucas and is the captain of the
22 West Scranton High School Football Team.
23 Asa had a season record of 35
24 receptions for 640 yards, ten touchdowns, five
25 interceptions, one interception returned for a
1 touchdown and one point return for a touchdown.
2 Some of Asa's accomplishments have
3 enabled him to be selected as First Team All Lackawanna
4 Football Conference Wide Receiver and second team all
5 Lackawanna Football Conference Defensive Back, as well
6 as being selected as first team all region wide
7 receiver for the Scranton Times Tribune, WNEP-TV's
8 Super 16 Dream Team and Fox 56 Sport Athlete of the
9 Week, and also the recipient of the Kane Award for
11 Asa was also a two-year letterman for
12 the track team participation in the long jump, high
13 hurdles and 4 by 100 relay team.
14 He's involved in many extracurricular
15 activities, such as the Red Cross Club, SADD Club,
16 Tomorrow's Leaders, Special Olympics, Student Council,
17 and the Spanish Club, just to name a few.
18 Upon graduating from West Scranton High
19 School, Asa plans to attend Fordham University in New
20 York, for which he has been awarded a full scholarship
21 and is interested in the study of business
23 Whereas, the teachers, students and
24 administrators of West Scranton High School are very
25 proud of Asa Lucas.
1 Therefore, be it resolved that Scranton
2 City Council wishes to congratulate Asa Lucas, his
3 parents, coaches and teachers for their outstanding
4 achievement and wish him success in all his future
6 Be it further resolved that this
7 proclamation be made a permanent part of the minutes of
8 this Council as a lasting tribute to Asa Lucas.
9 Congratulations. This is Asa's mom, and this is his
10 coach, Mike DeAntona. Thank you very much.
11 MR. LUCAS: I'd like to say thank you
12 to the West Scranton Football Team and the whole
13 community, the City Council, Mrs. Gatelli,
14 Mr. Courtright for awarding me with this proclamation.
16 MS. GATELLI: Very good. Before we
17 start the meeting, I'd also like to make another
18 motion. We have two more students, and I promise this
19 is the end of the students. We're not going to be
20 accepting any more applicants until next year.
21 It's really rewarding, though, to see
22 this many children that are interested in the
23 government and city business.
24 So, I'd like to make a motion to
25 appoint Michael Benedict, stand up, Michael, and
1 Katrina Organ. They're students from Bishop Hannon.
2 And I make a motion that they be appointed to the task
4 MS. EVANS: Second.
5 MS. GATELLI: On the question?
6 MS. EVANS: Yes. Katrina, I must say
7 that you are the answer to many people's dreams. I
8 have been E-mailed more times than I can tell you from
9 citizens of Scranton who wanted to know why with a
10 female majority on City Council, not one lovely young
11 lady had a seat on the Junior Council, so a very
12 special welcome to you, and to you, too, sir. You're
13 wonderful additions.
14 Oh, and, also, I'm an alumna of Bishop
15 Hannon, so I'm particularly please to see yo here.
16 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else on the
17 question? All in favor.
18 MS. EVANS: Aye.
19 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Aye.
20 MR. MCTIERNAN: Aye.
21 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
22 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes
23 have it and so moved. Welcome. All right, Mrs.
25 MS. GARVEY: For Clerk's Notes tonight,
1 there's a few things that I can report on responses
2 that we received.
3 First to begin with from George Parker
4 for a request of stop sign at Ruth Avenue and Detty
5 Street, he has -- after his evaluation, he said that
6 the sign was warranted on Detty Street.
7 The next one was for Marion Street and
8 Gardner Avenue. Marion Street has a four-leg
9 intersection. He said there are vehicles that are
10 parked which obstruct the site distance for motorists
11 passing through this intersection, therefore, in his
12 opinion the stop sign is warranted to put stop signs to
13 be installed on Gardner Avenue, which will create a
14 four-way stop intersection.
15 Marion Street and Nay Aug Avenue, he
16 said Marion Street T-intersects with Nay Aug Avenue at
17 a skewed angle. There are currently two stop signs on
18 Nay Aug Avenue. There's adequate site distance for
19 motorists that are stopped at this intersection,
20 therefore, in his opinion there is no additional signs
22 Mulberry Street and Quincy Avenue,
23 Mulberry Street at this intersection is state highway,
24 and, therefore, out of the jurisdiction of the City of
25 Scranton. There is currently a stop sign on Quincy
1 Avenue, and the Pennsylvania Department of
2 Transportation will have to make the decision on
3 whether or not to place a stop sign on Mulberry Street.
4 And in his experience, stop signs will only be
5 permitted on the low volume local roadway, not on the
6 primary high volume state traffic route.
7 MS. EVANS: Kay, if I might interrupt.
8 I believe that was suggested by Mr. Barron, and he
9 contacted me since the evening at which he appeared at
10 Council indicating that he had made a mistake. IT was
11 Quincy and Myrtle Street that required the stop sign.
12 So, if we can contact Mr. Parker and let him know that
13 the Mulberry Street intersection is no longer an issue,
14 but rather if he could please look at Mertyle.
15 MS. GARVEY: Okay.
16 MS. EVANS: Thank you. The next one
17 was Mr. Courtright, you were concerned about the Elm
18 Street viaduct, you had asked for that. Some trees
19 were taken down over there.
20 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you.
21 MS. GARVEY: And let's see. The next
22 one was, I believe, Parker and Boulevard Avenue, he
23 feels that that does not need to be a four-way stop
24 sign. There are three there now. The fourth one would
25 be where you're coming down Boulevard Avenue, and he
1 said that would pretty much just cause a danger there.
2 He said it really was never a four-way stop, it was
3 only a three way.
4 And he said when you're coming down
5 there, it would be better it not had a stop sign,
6 because of in bad weather, you would have to slide
7 through and it'd create more danger than safety.
8 MS. EVANS: Yes. In fact, Mrs. Cook
9 this evening said something quite similar, that
10 actually there had been a four-way stop sign perhaps
11 25 years ago or more, but that because of the pitch
12 there, it oftentimes will flood and that freezes and it
13 becomes a safety hazard.
14 MS. GARVEY: Right. That's what he
16 MS. EVANS: So, thank you, Kay.
17 MS. GARVEY: Yep. And then the next
18 issue was, Mrs. Evans, you requested sidewalks Wilber
19 Street, Charles Street. We sent that down to
20 Mr. Parker for his evaluation, and he just pretty much
21 said that the city really isn't in the practice of
22 putting sidewalks in like that. He said, unless, of
23 course, if they were -- if the city received a grant,
24 and part of that grant money was earmarked for devotion
25 to sidewalks or if it was part of a project, such as
1 the North Scranton project that had the sidewalks on
2 North Main Avenue and East Market and West Market
3 Streets. When it's part of a project like that,
4 sometimes they're done, but not as a rule for just
5 sidewalks to be in. And then the maintenance of
6 sidewalks naturally are, as we all know, the residents'
8 So, that was his response for that.
9 And we did receive from Mr. Wintermantle a response
10 regarding your issues with the breakdown of the terms
11 of usage and the revenue and expenses.
12 I did put that in your boxes, but you
13 may not have had a chance to look at it yet.
14 MS. EVANS: No, I haven't.
15 MS. GARVEY: And just to go over it
16 quickly, he said in -- let's see. In January of '06,
17 the revenue was $18,133; expenses, $18,915.
18 February 2, $25,039 revenue; $14,671 for expenses, and
19 the usage was $2,699 in January, $4,072 in February, a
20 total of $6,771. And that copy is in your boxes, as
22 MS. EVANS: Thank you.
23 MS. GARVEY: And that's all I have.
24 MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Mrs. Garvey.
25 I just have a few things. First I got a call from the
1 Vice President of the Taxpayers Association, and she
2 wanted me to announce that at their meeting on
3 Wednesday, March 22 at seven o'clock, Commissioner
4 Cordaro will be one of the speakers at that particular
6 The next thing is the fundraiser at the
7 Dante Sunday, 12:30 to five for Jack Williams, the
8 Sewer Authority person that has passed away. It's a
9 fundraiser for medical expenses.
10 I want to thank Mr. Parker and
11 Charlie Matthews for repairing the inlets at the 400
12 and 500 block of Race Street.
13 The Elm Street viaduct was cleaned
14 today. I couldn't get to work on time because I had to
15 go all the way around. The street was blocked, and
16 they had several big pieces of machinery and chippers
17 and they cleaned all of the viaduct going up Elm
19 Keyser Avenue, there was a problem
20 there. There was a person living in an empty lot right
21 at the corner of Keyser Avenue and the Morgan Highway,
22 and he was bringing garbage there every day, and, in
23 fact, he was sleeping there, and the lot became like a
24 garbage dump.
25 So, they had to contact PennDOT,
1 because they own the property, and post it, and the
2 city has cleaned it up this week, so the neighbors
3 there are quite happy about that.
4 The 500 block of Lackawanna Avenue, I
5 got a lot of information on that project. I met with
6 John Blake from the Governor's office yesterday, and I
7 really don't want to get into it all, because I know
8 we're all very anxious to leave here.
9 So, if anybody wants to know anything
10 about that project, I will stay after the meeting and
11 discuss it with you. It is a $20 million project, and
12 the State, the Governor, has contributed $9 million to
13 that project.
14 We asked last week if the $577,000 UDAG
15 money and the $550,000 for Lackawanna Avenue are
16 separate monies. That question was brought up last
17 week. Potholes were filled on South Irving and Pear,
18 Stafford and Kane, Cemetery Road, Hilltop and Skyview.
19 Catch basins were cleaned on Prospect
20 and O'Hara. And I haven't had much success with the
21 problem over on Cameron Avenue where there's a
22 flooding. One gentleman's home gets flooded in the
23 cellar every time it rains, at least three to four
24 inches of water, and I haven't really gotten too far
25 with that project, so I'd like to make a motion so that
1 we can send a letter from all of Council to Mr. Parker
2 that he check into the problem at the corner of North
3 Cameron and Lafayette and see if something can be done
4 to rectify that situation.
5 MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.
6 MS. GATELLI: On the question?
7 MS. EVANS: Yes. That's been an issue
8 for many, many years, according to the residents. I
9 think maybe it was even Mr. Courtright that brought it
10 up. I've brought it up a number of times in the last
11 two years. Many letters have been written to
12 Mr. Parker about it.
13 It actually becomes a lake in the area,
14 and the resident had provided photos of the flooding
15 conditions, and those were forwarded to Mr. Parker many
16 months ago, and still nothing has happened, so
17 hopefully a nice nudge may prove profitable.
18 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else on the
19 question? All in favor?
20 MS. EVANS: Aye.
21 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Aye.
22 MR. MCTIERNAN: Aye.
23 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
24 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes
25 have it and so moved. I just have one more thing.
1 I've gotten several calls over the past weeks of people
2 that are looking at their taxes, and they have found
3 that under the county portion of the bill, there is
4 something knew there that they did not is know what it
5 was, it's called an educational tax.
6 So, I called the county today, and I
7 found out that it was approved last year, and it was
8 included in the 48 percent tax increase. And on last
9 year's bill it wasn't itemized, so you didn't notice
10 it. This year it's itemized, and it's called
11 educational tax.
12 It is for the arts and culture.
13 $250,000 is going to the Masonic Temple, $250,000 is
14 going in the museum, $250,000 is going to the library,
15 and the rest is paying for them to have an office at
16 the county and to give grants to local artists, et
18 The one mill, it was one mill of a tax,
19 and it generated $1,211,875. But it is a new tax, and
20 it was approved last year. So, for anyone that is
21 wondering what that is, that's what it is. All right.
22 I don't have anything else.
23 MS. EVANS: May I jump in, though,
24 hopefully for two dinner announcements? Once again,
25 there will be a fundraiser this Sunday at the Minooka
1 American Legion for the benefit of Christian Budney.
2 Tickets are $10. I encourage everyone to attend. And
3 I understand, as well, another fundraiser has been
4 organized on April 30 at the Montage ski lodge from
5 11 a.m. to 6 p.m., and it is a spaghetti and meatball
6 dinner, and that will benefit Christian and his family,
7 as well. So, please try to get to one or both of
8 those events.
9 MS. GATELLI: Okay. I said I was done,
10 but I have one more thing. On March the 3rd, there was
11 a saturation patrol in South Scranton, along with the
12 Pennsylvania State Police. There were 51 incidents
13 generated, 27 traffic citations, 14 warnings, five
14 criminal arrests, three warrants were served,
15 confiscation, 17 packs of heroin, seven grams of crack
16 cocaine, $465, one bag of marijuana and three
18 So, we're very happy that they're
19 continuing that in South Scranton. We are still having
20 a problem, and hoping that once we get the project
21 underway over there, we can make more of an impact.
22 Thank you. The first speaker is Andy Sbaraglia.
23 MS. GARVEY: Mrs. Gatelli, excuse me
24 for one minute.
25 MS. GATELLI: Yes.
1 MS. GARVEY: I kind of went out of
2 order with Clerk's Notes. I forgot to do 3-A, so I'm
3 going to back up to that right now.
4 MS. GATELLI: Okay. It was,
5 APPLICATIONS AND DECISIONS RENDERED BY THE ZONING
6 HEARING BOARD MEETING HELD ON WEDNESDAY MARCH 8, 2006.
7 MS. GATELLI: Are there any comments?
8 If not, received and filed. Mr. Sbaraglia.
9 MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia, citizen
10 of Scranton. Fellow Scrantonians, I'm definitely going
11 to talk on the 501 project, even if I have to meet with
12 you after the minutes and go over them all. Of course,
13 I might not see that game, because I really want to get
14 in depth to it.
15 I've got some questions to ask on it,
16 since you've got a lot of information, maybe I don't
17 even have to stay. You already have it. How many
18 buildings does this developer own in that project at
19 this point?
20 MS. GATELLI: He owns three.
21 MR. SBARAGLIA: That means there's
22 what, about ten in that building?
23 MS. GATELLI: There's eleven parcels in
24 the project.
25 MR. SBARAGLIA: And he owns only three
1 of them.
2 MS. GATELLI: He owns three. The city
3 is going to purchase three, and the rest are going to
4 stay with the current owner.
5 MR. SBARAGLIA: The rest are going to
6 stay with the current owner, and how is it going to be
7 developed then? Is the money going to be used to put
8 their fronts on, the same as all the other buildings?
9 MS. GATELLI: Yes, they will
10 participate in the project.
11 MR. SBARAGLIA: And tell me, how much
12 is the city going to get for the three buildings we're
13 going to purchase and why are we purchasing them? Why
14 can't the developer purchase them?
15 MS. GATELLI: I'm not sure about that,
17 MR. SBARAGLIA: I'm not sure about
18 that, Andy.
19 MS. GATELLI: Well, I would find out,
20 because why are we spending our money and being, as you
21 pointed out -- I thought it was $10 million, but you
22 pointed it out to be $9 million.
23 MS. GATELLI: $9 million.
24 MR. SBARAGLIA: Right.
25 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Mr. Sbaraglia, I
1 can answer that question for you. In order to be able
2 to receive the money from the government, the city does
3 have to put up some type of money, so that is a
4 requirement to be able to get the money that was
5 provided by the governor.
6 MR. SBARAGLIA: Are we going to be
8 MS. GATELLI: For half.
9 MR. SBARAGLIA: Perhaps? That don't
10 mean nothing. Perhaps, you can take that and --
11 MS. GATELLI: For half of the money.
12 MR. SBARAGLIA: Oh, for half of the
13 buildings, okay, not perhaps.
14 MS. GATELLI: The Governor's money
15 doesn't kick in until it's spent, then you're
17 MR. SBARAGLIA: I understand something
18 like that, but I was wondering, the city is going to
19 purchase four buildings you said.
20 MS. GATELLI: Three buildings.
21 MR. SBARAGLIA: Three buildings, okay.
22 Are we going to charge the developer our cost or are we
23 going to purchase the building and give it to them for
24 a dollar?
25 MS. GATELLI: I'm not sure.
1 MR. SBARAGLIA: Well, that's the kind
2 of question you should find out.
3 MS. GATELLI: Well, I will.
4 MR. SBARAGLIA: Okay. And who is going
5 to pay for the eminent domain? I assume the city is
6 going to pay for it. We're going to pay the costs of
7 condemning them buildings.
8 MS. GATELLI: Yes. And then the
9 governor will reimburse ups for half of that amount.
10 MR. SBARAGLIA: Reimburse us or
11 reimburse the developer?
12 MS. GATELLI: He will reimburse the
14 MR. SBARAGLIA: For the cost of that?
15 MS. GATELLI: Yes.
16 MR. SBARAGLIA: Is that going to come
17 out of the $9 million?
18 MS. GATELLI: Yes.
19 MR. SBARAGLIA: Why is the loan no
20 interest on this loan? It's a UDAG loan, why is it
21 given at no interest?
22 MS. GATELLI: Because it's the city
23 buying -- purchasing those properties.
24 MR. SBARAGLIA: No, the loan, the loan
25 -- the UDAG loan that you're giving, the $550,000, why
1 is it a no interest loan?
2 MS. GATELLI: That money is going to be
3 used to purchase those properties.
4 MR. SBARAGLIA: Are you assuming that
5 those properties are going to be sold for that half a
6 million dollars or $5 million plus?
7 MS. GATELLI: They must have an idea
8 that that's what it's going to cost.
9 MR. SBARAGLIA: So, it may not
10 necessarily be sold, because if they go through courts
11 and so forth and so on, what buildings are we referring
13 MS. GATELLI: I don't know the
14 addresses of those buildings. I looked at the
15 pictures, and I can't figure them out. And I drove by
16 today, and most of them don't have an address on them,
17 so I couldn't figure out which ones they were.
18 MR. SBARAGLIA: Why is he only
19 obligated to spend $2 million over five years out of
20 that $9 million then?
21 MS. GATELLI: Who, the developer?
22 MR. SBARAGLIA: The developer. He's
23 only obligated to spend $2 million out of the $9
24 million. I thought it was --
25 MS. GATELLI: The developer is going to
1 spend $7 to $8 million. That's his piece of the pie.
2 MR. SBARAGLIA: Well, your legislation
3 calls for him to spend only $2 million in five years.
4 MS. GATELLI: That's only on this
5 particular piece of legislation.
6 MR. SBARAGLIA: Are we going to follow
7 through with other pieces of the legislation? Is that
8 what we're saying, this is only to start?
9 MS. GATELLI: Yes. And I'll have to
10 talk to you after the meeting, because it's too complex
11 to discuss.
12 MR. SBARAGLIA: Well, yeah. You know,
13 at the taxpayer's meeting, are you going to attend
15 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I'll bring it all
16 with me. And I can make copies of this for you.
17 MR. SBARAGLIA: Right. That would be
18 probably the better, and that way you can still see
19 your game and I can still read all that information. I
20 thank you very much.
21 MS. GATELLI: Stay after and I'll make
22 you copies.
23 MR. SBARAGLIA: Okay.
24 MS. GATELLI: Terry Osborne.
25 MR. OSBORNE: Good evening, Council.
1 I'm Terry Osborne. I am one of the fire
2 representatives to the composite pension board, and I'd
3 like to talk a little bit about the contract that we
4 have sent word to the mayor of who we had selected, and
5 I know you people haven't received anything yet.
6 But before I do, Janet, very quickly,
7 you announced the fundraiser at Minooka, this weekend
8 at Minooka is Pat Louvullo, it's two to five.
9 MS. EVANS: Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. That
10 is Pat Louvullo. I'm so sorry.
11 MR. OSBORNE: He is actually a student
12 at Scranton High. He's the son of Sean Louvullo, the
13 officer and Eileen Hurchak, who's a former secretary in
14 our office and now the purchasing clerk. So, that's
15 this weekend at the Minooka Legion.
16 MS. EVANS: I'm sorry. I stand
17 corrected, you're right, but it's still a very, very
18 good event, and I'm hoping people will support it.
19 MR. OSBORNE: Right. Just quickly, I
20 think most of you know there's an ongoing -- there's
21 been some ongoing discussion. I actually checked with
22 Mike Savitsky today.
23 On December 1, we sent a request to the
24 law department to send you guys down legislation with
25 selection of Mellon Bank, who was voted on by the
1 pension board, and nothing has moved on that.
2 As of today, I guess we still don't
3 have anything down here. And while there are
4 discussions going on, I think the first step needs to
5 be for you guys to get this legislation, bring this
6 thing to a head, vote it up, vote it down, and we, the
7 employees on that board, are hoping that you guys can
8 take some action to do that.
9 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Osborne, just to
10 interrupt you for a minute, I was privy to the RFPs for
11 that particular piece of legislation that you're
12 referring to, and it would be for someone to manage the
13 pension fund.
14 And from what I understand, there is a
15 pension board --
16 MR. OSBORNE: Yes, there is.
17 MS. GATELLI: And the pension board
18 voted on this?
19 MR. OSBORNE: Yes, we did. And it
20 passed 7-2 for Mellon to be selected as the trustee and
21 the investment manager for our funds, and that was sent
22 to Rob Farrell December 1.
23 And we've had some discussions. As a
24 matter of fact, I'm sure some of you know in the past,
25 our solicitor and myself met with Amil. Amil, you
1 know, gave us some great help. I've discussed it with
2 several of you people over the last couple of months,
3 and to a degree we're looking to bring it to a head.
4 If there's something legally our board
5 is going to have to do, our board will meet next
6 Wednesday to discuss that, but the first thing would be
7 -- we'd hope for you guys to find out once and for all
8 are you or are you not going to get this legislation
10 Because for us to move forward, I think
11 that has to be answered. So we're hoping in some way
12 you guys can, I guess, request that of the mayor.
13 And for several reasons number one, I
14 have with me tonight what I referred to many, many
15 times, and I'd like to make it available if anybody
16 wants one, investment policy guidebook for trustees
17 which is put out by the International Foundation of
18 Employee Benefit Plans.
19 The chapter is legal considerations in
20 the investment of plan sets. And it speaks to the laws
21 in this country which we are held by. And it says its
22 fiduciary shall discharge his duties with respect to a
23 plan solely in the interest of the participants and the
24 beneficiaries of the plan.
25 I'm not going to try to kid you about
1 it. This RFP is in the midst of a lot of political
2 stuff going on in this city.
3 There are people sending down or
4 wanting to send down other people who I believe is
5 strictly based on political contributions. We had that
6 difficulty five years ago. We're hoping to avoid it
8 The people who wrote this book, I
9 sometimes laugh about it. I think they know about the
10 City of Scranton, because it further goes on to say, As
11 a trustee of an employment benefit plan, you will be
12 approached by many investment professionals seeking to
13 invest your plan assets. Your decision should not be
14 swayed by who wines and dines you to the best of their
15 ability or takes you golfing, but the investment
16 manager's experience, ability with investment style
17 identified for the position in question.
18 I'll also refer you to the state law.
19 The state law in, I'm not sure which section it is,
20 when it gets into the management of the fund. The
21 aggregated pension fund shall be managed by a board of
22 trustees. That's us. We make the recommendation.
23 Historically for 20 some years now,
24 that recommendation came down. You guys voted on it.
25 I'd like to say Council always voted unanimously on our
2 Five years ago, not to go over ancient
3 history, for the $7 million upfront fee, that was not
4 done. That was for the fee five years ago.
5 We don't need $5 million or $7 million
6 now. We need to get back to where our pension board
7 should be. It should be removed from politics.
8 The mayor's race is over from last
9 year, okay? We know there were people who made
10 contributions based on who they felt might win and
11 based on people who thought they would then become
12 somebody's horse in this race. We need to get away
13 from that.
14 So, we're asking if there is some
15 action, that you people can take, and I know my bell is
16 ringing, but if I could have one more minute.
17 Quickly I'd like to tell you a story.
18 MS. GATELLI: Finish up your thoughts.
19 MR. OSBORNE: I bumped into Sally
20 O'Brien, I don't know if many of you people know her.
21 She lives here in the City of Scranton.
22 Several years ago she worked at First
23 Eastern Bank, and I want to say in the late eighties,
24 our RFP was up. I bumped into Sally about six months
25 ago, and she told me she still tells the story that
1 RFP. When she worked at First Eastern Bank and our RFP
2 came out and her bosses thought she was insane to want
3 First Eastern Bank to put in an RFP for our business.
4 It was well known then, or at least
5 they thought, that the City of Scranton was politically
6 wired, that there would not be a chance in the world
7 for First Eastern to get this account, but she begged
8 her bosses and her bosses agreed to let her. They
9 submitted a bid. They won our bid that year.
10 She still tells the story that despite
11 what many, many people thought, at least the composite
12 pension board stayed removed from all that non sense.
13 We need to get away from it again. We need to get a
14 decision made somewhere or other if this legislation is
15 going to go down, and then, again, based on meetings
16 with our attorneys, ultimately our board may have to
17 decide some legal action.
18 But I think, you know, we need to know
19 first is the mayor going to send this down to you, are
20 you people going to vote it up or down? If you do, the
21 mayor may try to veto it and then it will come back for
22 a final vote and then we may have to move from there.
23 But in some way we hope that this
24 Council is going to take some action to bring this
25 thing to a head, and we'd appreciate all the help we
1 can get.
2 MS. EVANS: Mr. Osborne, the members of
3 the pension board who had been appointed by the mayor,
4 are they still seated on the board?
5 MR. OSBORNE: They are. Pending any
6 appeal, there's an April court date, I believe, on
7 that, and I'm not putting Amil on the spot, but I think
8 most attorneys would agree that when an arbitrator
9 makes a decisions, orders all attorneys' fees, orders
10 all costs and orders interest on the award, it's going
11 to get held up in our local court. There's not much
12 doubt about that.
13 So, soon we hope these people will
14 still be removed. But, again, in our discussion with
15 Amil, we could still be in the dilemma that even if
16 this wasn't done until then, if, again, we send that
17 recommendation up with 9-0 vote, if somewhere somebody
18 in this building won't act on it, it just doesn't come
19 to a head.
20 Knock on wood. ASCO, who we have had
21 difficulties with over the years, have agreed to stay
22 on to get us through this process. And they do. It
23 guarantees the pensioners are getting their checks and
24 all that type stuff, which is the most important thing.
25 But it's time to move on.
1 Like I said, the mayor's race is over.
2 We resent the fact that our pension fund was put in the
3 middle of the mayor's race. We want it over with, we
4 want it brought to a head, and I think most of you
5 people on Council who I have spoken to agree, Bobby, I
6 promised you I'd get together and meet with you. My
7 daughter is still playing basketball, so I haven't had
8 a lot of time, but I do hope to sit and talk with you
9 again just to bring you up to date on, you know, on the
10 RFP and that.
11 So, if there is something you guys can
12 do, Judy, either you as the president or anybody, we
13 would appreciate it.
14 MS. GATELLI: Well, I think the only
15 thing that we can do at this juncture, and I do think
16 that you have legal recourse in the matter --
17 MR. OSBORNE: Right.
18 MS. GATELLI: -- is I would make a
19 motion that we as Council send a letter to the mayor
20 requesting him to send down the legislation for Mellon
21 Bank that the pension board has approved. I mean, I
22 don't understand why if a board approves something,
23 it's their money, they're representing the people, I
24 can't understand why it's not being sent down. So, I
25 would make that motion that he send it down or tell us
1 that he's not going to send it down so the pension
2 board would have recourse.
3 MS. EVANS: Second.
4 MS. GATELLI: On the question?
5 MS. EVANS: Yes. But I would like to
6 know why Council cannot write the legislation.
7 MR. OSBORNE: Okay. And I don't want
8 to speak for Amil. We've had discussions, myself, Mike
9 Savitsky met with Amil, and I appreciate you guys
10 having him do that with us.
11 There is open discussion about that,
12 but, again, and this is what I just said to Amil when
13 we had the meeting that day, many times if we go down
14 to The Court over something or other, we have not gone
15 through the other procedures, such as if it's a
17 They'll say, Well, why didn't you do
18 your grievance-arbitration type thing and you ran right
19 to The Court? You haven't tried all your other
21 One of the thoughts would be, and I
22 don't want to speak for our solicitor, because he's not
23 here is if we got to The Court and they said, Well, you
24 don't know whether the city are or aren't going to yet.
25 So, again, I think this brings it to a
1 head. It's a yes/no by the mayor, then it's a yes/no
2 by the Council, and then if we have some questions with
3 that, and based on Act 205, the law, we have many
4 questions about this, I think then, and, again, with
5 the two attorneys talking, I think they would take that
6 legal remedy.
7 MS. EVANS: If the mayor will not send
8 down such legislation, what is Council's next step?
9 MR. OSBORNE: I think the next step
10 would be at our board, and we are ready to discuss that
11 at our board meeting on Wednesday. So, really I'd
12 rather not even talk about it here. I think our board
13 would need to make that decision first.
14 MS. GATELLI: But there is some
15 recourse for them.
16 MR. OSBORNE: Right. And, again, I
17 think if you guys set a deadline and we stand by that
18 deadline, and I believe on Wednesday, and, again I
19 can't speak for the whole board, I think on Wednesday
20 we're going to hold discussion with our attorney to,
21 again, bring this thing to a head once and for all.
22 MS. EVANS: That would be the --
23 MR. OSBORNE: The 22nd.
24 MS. GATELLI: Wednesday is the 22nd.
25 MR. OSBORNE: Yeah, that's our board
2 MS. EVANS: Then could we amend your
3 motion to include a date of March 21 for a definite
5 MS. GATELLI: And if Mrs. Garvey could
6 possibly do this A.S.A.P. in the morning, being that we
7 have that deadline on it.
8 MS. EVANS: So, I'll make a motion to
9 amend your motion to include --
10 MS. GATELLI: And I'll second that
12 MS. EVANS: -- the date of March 21 for
13 a response.
14 MS. GATELLI: On the question anyone
15 else? Roll call -- or all in favor.
16 MS. EVANS: Aye.
17 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed?
18 MR. COURTRIGHT: No.
19 MR. MCTIERNAN: No.
20 MS. FANUCCI: No.
21 MS. GATELLI: Okay. You got your
23 MR. OSBORNE: Thank you very much.
24 And, again, we appreciate all of Amil's help and we
25 appreciate the ongoing discussion with you people.
1 MS. GATELLI: I think you're right,
3 MS. EVANS: Well, I frankly can't
4 understand why anyone would be against a decision made
5 by a mention board and the people, I understand,
6 perhaps not those appointed by the mayor, but those who
7 are seated on that board are elected, Mr. Osborne, by
8 their unions, and the manager upon which you had all
9 agreed saves money for the taxpayers of the city, and
10 it is your money, as well, and I would like an answer
11 from someone as to what they find objectionable about
12 that. Someone who voted this down on Council, what is
13 the objection?
14 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't have an
15 objection to sending a motion giving him a deadline to
16 send something down to us, I have an objection to
17 telling them who to send down. It makes no difference
19 MS. EVANS: We're not telling him who
20 to send down, we're telling him to say yes or no.
21 MS. GATELLI: No, I said Mellon.
22 MS. EVANS: Mellon, yes.
23 MS. GATELLI: I said Mellon, because
24 that's who they voted for.
25 MS. EVANS: His answer then is yes or
2 MS. GATELLI: The pension board voted
3 for Mellon.
4 MS. EVANS: Right. So, we are not
5 dictating the choice for the Mayor, we are simply
6 saying, Here is their choice. We would like your
7 response. Will you provide legislation supporting this
8 or will you not. So, it is either yes or no. Now,
9 what is the objection to that?
10 MS. GATELLI: Well, Mrs. Evans, we
11 could go on until --
12 MS. EVANS: There is no answer.
13 MS. GATELLI: -- G-Mac finishes the
14 game tonight. There's no answer, so -- everybody's
15 entitled to their own vote, and I respect everybody's
16 opinion, and, you know, everybody has their reasons for
17 voting a certain way, so --
18 MR. OSBORNE: Like you guys, we'll wait
19 for the response from the Mayor.
20 MS. GATELLI: We'll wait for the
22 MR. OSBORNE: Janet, if I could quickly
23 answer your question. There's one member elected by
24 the membership at large and one member elected from the
25 individual board, so there's a total of six employees,
1 plus the Mayor, plus the Mayor. The Mayor can have
2 input on our board, the city controller and the
3 president of City Council, those three by virtue of
5 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Thank you.
6 MS. EVANS: And I agree with
7 Mrs. Gatelli, everyone certainly has a right to their
8 opinion, and I can respect that opinion, but I haven't
9 even heard an opinion yet, you know --
10 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mrs. Gatelli, could I
11 go out of turn here for a moment, if everybody would
13 MS. GATELLI: Yes.
14 MR. COURTRIGHT: I would be willing to
15 make a motion that we send a letter to the mayor asking
16 him to send down some kind of legislation to us by the
17 21st, some kind, anything.
18 MR. MCTIERNAN: Second.
19 MS. GATELLI: On the question?
20 MS. EVANS: I don't know why we want to
21 say we'll send down some legislation on any one. The
22 pension board is requesting the response on the firm
23 that they have approved.
24 So, in fact, which what you're doing is
25 changing the rules in the middle of the game and
1 saying, Well, Mayor, you pick someone, and the Mayor
2 has no right to dabble in that decision. He has the
3 right to decide if he intends to send down legislation
4 or not.
5 But certainly, you know, that -- with
6 all due respect, Mr. Courtright, that's a ludicrous
7 suggestion. We're just asking him to say yes or no to
8 this company. And if he says no, then I'm certain
9 he'll suggest someone else.
10 MS. GATELLI: On the question anyone
12 MS. GATELLI: All in favor?
13 MR. MCTIERNAN: Aye.
14 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
15 MS. GATELLI: Opposed? No.
16 MS. EVANS: No.
17 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: No. The motion
18 failed 3-2. Mr. Jackowitz.
19 MR. JACKOWITZ: It seems like the game
20 has started before they even had the first tip off
21 here. Okay. Bill Jackowitz, city resident and
22 taxpayer, registered independent voter, retired United
23 States Air Force.
24 Mrs. Gatelli, I would like to have you
25 discuss the Lackawanna Avenue project next week, since
1 you can't do it this week.
2 The $20 million project and the $9
3 million from the state, that's old news. We need to
4 hear some new news.
5 MS. GATELLI: Okay.
6 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay. Good evening,
7 City Council. I would like to start off the evening by
8 making two requests, first, that Council give me their
9 undivided attention for five minutes; second, that my
10 questions are answered at the conclusion of my talk.
11 During the past week I surveyed 213
12 people in the surrounding area, Scranton residents,
13 prior Scranton residents, residents who never lived in
15 The question I asked was, What do you
16 feel is the number one reason Scranton is a distressed
17 city and why did you leave the city? My answers were
18 number one, high taxes; number two, bars, drugs and no
19 safety; number three, corrupt politicians.
20 Those were the three answers from 213
21 people that live in Lackawanna County and Luzerne
22 County for most of their lives.
23 My second topic, My belief is that the
24 city and state governments are required to submit a 10
25 to 20 year forecast for economic developments and new
1 projects so that they can receive grants and loans for
2 these programs.
3 The Chamber of Commerce in Scranton now
4 is the lead organization, so, Council, my request is
5 that representatives from the Scranton Chamber of
6 Commerce and Scranton now address city residents and
7 inform the city residents as to why we are building
8 luxury apartments, restaurants, boutiques, gift shops,
9 coffee shops and pooch parlors.
10 This should be made public and
11 disclosed so that the residents will know why we are
12 building these.
13 I have my own belief on this subject,
14 that being that the city is taking a gamble that the
15 passenger rail service will be operational in the next
16 five years.
17 If this is the reason, let's bring it
18 out to the public. Myself, I think it's a great idea.
19 Scranton's economy will get a fantastic boost.
20 Scranton residents will benefit. They will have the
21 opportunity to work in New York for higher wages and
22 commute back to Scranton. Current New Yorkers residing
23 in New York will have the same opportunities.
24 If this is the reason that these
25 projects are being proposed and started, let's explain
1 in detail to the residents. Keeping the residents in
2 the dark causes nothing but problems.
3 My second guess is that a medical
4 school will be built in Scranton. Again, a great idea,
5 will help boost the economy, will make Scranton a
6 better city to live and work in. Let's get the
7 information out so the citizens know what's really
8 going on.
9 Politicians and leaders must take into
10 consideration that the majority of the Scranton
11 residents have never lived anywhere else. They are --
12 they are -- they have experienced mismanagement,
13 corruption, failed projects after project.
14 Their taxes have been raised instead of
15 lowered. Because of these examples, some have become
16 bitter, angry and have no trust or faith in their local
18 Has anyone on City Council ever lived
19 outside the City of Scranton? For a short period of
20 time, a long period of time? Okay.
21 My first appearance before Council I
22 stated that the successful cities that I had lived in
23 were successful because the government bodies worked
24 together to build a better community. The last part of
25 the word community is unity. The first part is comm,
1 meaning communications.
2 Lastly, I would greatly appreciate it
3 if I never hear the words pet projects, I live in that
4 area, this is my neighborhood and so forth. As elected
5 City Council, you represent the entire city, just not
6 your section.
7 Mrs. Gatelli, do you feel that City
8 Council members should give their undivided attention
9 to speakers when they only get five minutes? Like I
10 said, answer when I'm done, please.
11 Mrs. Fanucci, as chairperson for the
12 economic developments, do you support my suggestion and
13 activity work at getting the Chamber of Commerce to
14 explain in detail what the plans are? And I don't mean
15 in a caucus, I mean somewhere out in public so many
16 people who can hear it will hear it and maybe we'll get
17 rid of all this arguing.
18 Mrs. Evans, what's up with the Hollow
19 Avenue project?
20 Mrs. Gatelli, as Council President, you
21 asked the residents not to insult the Council members,
22 now I will ask you to talk with Council members to ask
23 them to chose their words carefully and not insight the
24 audience and citizens.
25 And lastly, this explains everything
1 when it comes to government getting involved.
2 (UNTRANSCRIBABLE), 24 words, The Lord's Prayer, 66
3 words, (UNTRANSCRIBABLE0 67 words, The Ten
4 Commandments, 179 words, The Gettysburg Address, 286
5 words, The Declaration of Independence, 1,300 words,
6 The U.S. Government Regulation on the sale of cabbage,
7 26,911 words. I think government really needs to get
8 it together. But anyway, can I get my answers, please.
9 MS. EVANS: Maybe we can work down the
10 table. First of all, with regard to the situation on
11 Hollow Avenue, I spoke with Mr. Parker this week, and I
12 have not yet spoken with Mr. Moran, who is the
13 gentleman who originally set up the meeting that
14 Mr. Parker failed to attend and who compiled the agenda
15 that contains a number of questions that the residents
16 of the neighborhood have posed.
17 Now, I, as I was saying, did not have
18 the opportunity to contact him yet regarding
19 Mr. Parker's response, so I must ask your indulgence
20 here that I speak to him before I speak to all of
21 Scranton about it, because I would like to know what
22 his response to this will be.
23 MR. JACKOWITZ: My indulgence is
25 MS. EVANS: Thank you.
1 MR. JACKOWITZ: You're welcome.
2 Mrs. Fanucci.
3 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Absolutely. I
4 think that The Chamber should come out and maybe we can
5 have an open forum with The Chamber of Commerce, I
6 think that's a wonderful idea. I would definitely
7 support that.
8 MR. JACKOWITZ: Was I close with my
9 ideas or don't you know?
10 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I can honestly say
11 I've been with The Chamber and they do not project even
12 that far even for us. Projects are on a year base, a
13 two-year base, a three-year base for each project, but
14 I don't know if that's exactly the outcome that you're
15 looking for, like, saying that all of this is coming
16 because of the train. I really don't know that.
17 MR. JACKOWITZ: You know, not only the
18 train, why is it all coming? That's the big question.
19 Let the citizens know why it's all coming and maybe
20 we'll have a better understanding as to why it's coming
21 and why our money is being spent on it, and I think you
22 will get a better reception and a better reception from
23 the citizens and it will cut all this out B.S. out of
24 it, if you know what B.S. means.
25 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I will do that. I
1 will talk to them this week in an E-mail and send it to
2 them and see what we can do, if we can set something
4 Also, you had a second question for me,
5 right, about the paying tension. I can't speak for
6 anyone else up here, but when I'm writing or sometimes
7 I am on the computer, I'm looking up ordinances and,
8 like, past laws that we've had.
9 If somebody has a questions and we've
10 had times where people said stuff about dog and cat
11 license, I can look that up right here. I have a lot
12 of ordinances on here.
13 So, it's not that I'm -- maybe we
14 appear that we're not paying attention, but as far as
15 I'm concerned, I am taking notes that I remember
16 exactly what you're saying and how I can go about
17 answering questions for the future. So, I am paying
19 MR. JACKOWITZ: I appreciate that, but
20 I was talking about the sidebars that you and
21 Mrs. Evans has while people are talking.
22 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Well, sometimes
23 that is in reference to what is being discussed, and I
24 might ask her a question or she might ask me a
25 question, something that's helpful.
1 It's not -- we're not sitting here
2 discussing, like, our latest outfits. We are talking
3 about the city business. That's my response.
4 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay. Thank you.
5 MS. GATELLI: And sometimes you're
6 asking the person what the question was because you
7 can't hear.
8 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Yeah, sometimes I
9 did ask that. Before I asked her, I said, What did he
11 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay. Thank you for
12 that explanation. Mrs. Gatelli.
13 MS. GATELLI: I don't remember the
14 questions. I was paying so much attention, I didn't
15 the write them down.
16 MR. JACKOWITZ: That's all right. I
17 forgot, you're from South Side.
18 MS. GATELLI: Go ahead. So are you.
19 That's what happens when you live over there.
20 MR. JACKOWITZ: That's right. It's the
21 water. Mrs. Gatelli, do you feel that City Council
22 members should give their undivided attentions to
24 MS. GATELLI: Yes, I do.
25 MR. JACKOWITZ: And, Mrs. Gatelli, as
1 Council President you asked the residents not to insult
2 the Council members, now I will ask you to talk with
3 Council members to ask them to chose their words
4 carefully and not insight the audience and citizens.
5 MS. GATELLI: I would hope, and I have
6 never seen any of them do that. I would hope that we
7 could all have a mutual respect for each other.
8 MR. JACKOWITZ: My personal opinion, I
9 think it happened last week.
10 MS. GATELLI: Well, I apologize for
11 whoever -- was it to you?
12 MR. JACKOWITZ: No, it was to
13 everybody, but I was the one that said I didn't believe
14 that statement, but now that I've actually taken some
15 research into it, maybe I will believe that statement,
16 but I just didn't like the way a lot of things were
17 said. I think it insighted a lot of people, and
18 there's no need for that.
19 MS. GATELLI: Okay.
20 MR. JACKOWITZ: Because we've been
21 getting along pretty good, believe it or not, since
22 January --
23 MS. GATELLI: Yes, we agree.
24 MR. JACKOWITZ: -- compared to what it
25 used to be like, and I was kind of disappointed last
1 week, I really was, to see that happen, and I hope it
2 just doesn't happen again. And thank you for allowing
3 me to speak.
4 MS. GATELLI: All right. Go ahead.
5 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: If this is in
6 reference to me, I do want to apologize if that's how
7 you felt last week. I believe, too, that this is
8 something that -- I don't feel that that's how it was,
9 it was argumentative, but if that's how you felt, I am
10 going to apologize and I am sorry.
11 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay. I accept your
12 apology. Thank you.
13 MS. GATELLI: Okay. And just for the
14 future, this was five minutes, I bet we're here 15
15 minutes talking, so please limit your comments to five
16 minutes. If you want the Council to answer, we will
17 write the question down and we will answer you in
18 motions, okay? Thank you. Mr. Narsavage.
19 MR. NARSAVAGE: No, because it's not
20 fair to the other people that only took five minutes.
21 MR. NARSAVAGE: I'm Stan Narsavage,
22 Scranton resident and taxpayer. I wasn't going to
23 start at this point, but as long as Bill brought up the
24 subject, I was insulted last week by the remarks from
25 Mrs. Fanucci.
1 And I'm here to give my opinion to her
2 future addresses, and it's an old Arab proverb, and it
3 says, Let they speech be better than silence or be
4 silent. Okay?
5 I also have some questions that I want
6 to ask. Mrs. Gatelli, possibly for next meeting, our
7 next non-profit meeting, I would like to know is having
8 a proper assessment reduced without a hearing legal?
9 MS. GATELLI: Okay.
10 MR. NARSAVAGE: Okay. For everyone on
11 the Council, do you feel that a citizen should have the
12 opportunity to speak to the Mayor or department heads
13 if they have a problem?
14 MS. EVANS: Yes.
15 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yes.
16 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Yes.
17 MR. MCTIERNAN: Yes.
18 MS. GATELLI: Yes.
19 MR. NARSAVAGE: Okay. Mr. Courtright,
20 have the soldiers that have returned from the war zone
21 been paid? I'm not talking about the bonus, I'm
22 talking about the difference in rate between the
23 government pay and the city pay.
24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Okay. To the best of
25 my knowledge --
1 MR. NARSAVAGE: Am I accurate?
2 MR. COURTRIGHT: Could I try to explain
3 my answer first?
4 MR. NARSAVAGE: Certainly.
5 MR. COURTRIGHT: Initially when two of
6 the soldiers came back, they got paid differently than
7 guys that had gone prior to them.
8 What had happened was, I guess you
9 would call the personnel department human resources,
10 found out that some of the soldiers, not some of them,
11 all soldiers were getting paid for, I don't know, I
12 don't want to call it battle pay, but they were getting
13 paid other than their base pay, and what the city did
14 was they went and reduced those soldiers' pay by the
15 difference. Are you following me there or no?
16 MR. NARSAVAGE: Yes. Go ahead.
17 MR. COURTRIGHT: So, no, I don't think
18 they're getting paid anything, other than the base pay
19 minus, minus any other pay they're getting. And that's
20 what the city has done. They did not do that
21 originally, and then they changed it.
22 MR. NARSAVAGE: So, the city doesn't
23 really have to pay them the difference in their pays?
24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Unfortunately, yes,
25 they do not have to.
1 MR. NARSAVAGE: There's not a law that
2 says they have to.
3 MR. COURTRIGHT: To the best of my
4 knowledge, no. I looked into it the best I could, and
5 if I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected.
6 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Narsavage, I spoke to
7 Lisa Moran several week ago, and she told me that all
8 the people that went to Iraq were paid the difference
9 in their pay.
10 MR. NARSAVAGE: They were paid?
11 MS. GATELLI: That's what she told me.
12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Minus, though, minus
13 if they got -- I don't want to use the word battle pay,
14 but they get combat pay, they get housing allowances,
15 that was the --
16 MS. GATELLI: Whatever the difference
17 was, the city paid them, so that they would have the
18 same pay as if they were working for the city. They
19 didn't lose any money.
20 MR. NARSAVAGE: Okay. Thank you. Let
21 me see. I have a couple of, I think, interesting
22 things that maybe the public would like to hear. I
23 won't use any names or where these people are involved,
24 but it has to do with non-profits.
25 One of the larger organizations here in
1 the city they have a number of vice presidents, and I
2 guess according to the law and the 990 forms, they're
3 only allowed to report the first -- the top four.
4 And I'm going to read off the amount of
5 money that they make, but I'm not going to read the
6 names naturally. The person that led the list that
7 this organization earned, he's a vice president, earned
8 $205,074. The second highest, there were two people
9 that were second highest, they both had $185,044, and
10 the last one was $144,642. Now, this is a non-profit
12 One of the larger schools here in the
13 city, colleges, on the 9904 form for '04, their
14 organization worth was posted as $129 million. That's
15 a non-profit organization.
16 Now, I didn't get into a lot of the
17 rest of it, but it's a lot of work and a lot of things
18 to investigate. The information is all there. And you
19 wonder how these people can be non-profit
20 organizations. Thank you.
21 MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Mr. Narsavage.
22 Ray Lyman. No? How about Fay Franus?
23 MS. FRANUS: Fay Franus, Scranton.
24 I've seen on the agenda tonight you're going to vote
25 for Carl Greco to be the lawyer for the city. Now, I'm
1 sure you have your minds made up and you're not about
2 to change them, but, boy I hope you do.
3 And there's nothing you can say to me
4 or anybody else in this city, like I say all the time,
5 that's going to justify how you can do this. It's
6 going to show your true colors if you vote for this
8 Three-quarters of a million dollars in
9 less than three years this man gets? And you can't
10 tell me that Boyd Hughes used to get the same amount.
11 He got, like, $900,000 in ten years, so there's no
12 comparison, none.
13 So, don't give me that argument on why
14 you changed your minds. Because if you don't change
15 your minds, I want everybody in the whole City of
16 Scranton to remember how you voted, it's taken care of
17 the mayor's friends.
18 This guy has been taken care of for
19 years, and it has to stop. He's on the board of Prep,
20 and here he is -- here's a man, he's on the board of
21 directors at Prep, he's the lawyer for the city selling
22 the South Side project, the ball field, for the
23 Jesuits. Look at the conflict of interest here. It's
24 constantly taking care of people.
25 The Mayor is constantly taking care of
1 his friends, and you people up there are doing the same
2 thing by voting yes for this man.
3 Now, how are you going to do it? Are
4 you going to still do it? How can you justify it?
5 Anybody going to answer me? How can you possibly sit
6 there and say this man should get another contract?
7 He worked -- how did you allow him to
8 work without a contract for all this time? How did the
9 Mayor let him work without a contract for all this time
10 and get away with it? Somebody going to say something
11 to me here, because this has to stop.
12 Judy, I think you're going to vote for
13 this man.
14 MS. GATELLI: I think I'm going to vote
15 for Carl Greco.
16 MS. FRANUS: And I think you should
17 change your mind, because then it's saying I'm one of
18 the Mayor's people and I'm voting --
19 MS. GATELLI: Well, I'm not one of the
20 Mayor's people.
21 MS. FRANUS: You're voting for what the
22 Mayor wants.
23 MS. GATELLI: I'm my own person.
24 MS. FRANUS: Then how can you possibly
25 justify voting for this man?
1 MS. GATELLI: I'll tell you that when
2 the subject comes up. I'll give you my reasons.
3 MS. FRANUS: They're not good enough.
4 MS. GATELLI: Well --
5 MS. FRANUS: They can't be good enough.
6 They're not good enough -- no matter -- there's nothing
7 you can say, nothing you can say, that's going to
8 justify this, nothing. So, why even bother saying it?
9 All this is going to be a yes vote, he's going to get
10 it and there's Carl Greco going with all our money
12 Thousands and thousands of dollars of
13 our money he's going to take away from us again. He's
14 a little greedy. I think give it to somebody else.
15 This is disgusting. And how you can even imagine doing
16 this is totally beyond me.
17 What does it take? What does it take
18 for people to stand up and do something with courage
19 and say no to this mayor who wants everything he wants
20 and gets everything he wants and gives his friends
21 everything he wants? And you're going to still say,
22 Okay, yes. How do you vote? Yes, yes, yes. Go,
23 Greco. More money in his pocket that I'm giving him.
24 I wish I had some of that money. Mrs. Evans, what do
25 you have to say about this?
1 MS. EVANS: First of all, I think that
2 two of the members of Council can't be held responsible
3 for anything that's occurred with Mr. Greco.
4 MS. FRANUS: Will that be you and Mr.
6 MS. EVANS: No. I'm talking about the
7 fact that Mrs. Gatelli and Mrs. Fanucci are new to
8 Council, so they weren't involved in --
9 MS. FRANUS: They're involved now.
10 MS. EVANS: In the history of this.
11 MS. FRANUS: They're involved now.
12 MS. EVANS: As for the remaining three,
13 myself included, actually we were never directly
14 involved until now, because the contracts that
15 Mr. Greco received were given to him prior to our being
16 seated on City Council, and since the three of us had
17 been seated, this is the very first time that a
18 contract has appeared.
19 MS. FRANUS: But now you have a chance
20 to make it right so they do have -- Mrs. Gatelli and
21 Mrs. Fanucci certainly do have a say in this.
22 MS. EVANS: For this contract now, yes.
23 MS. FRANUS: It's very important. I
24 don't know.
25 MS. EVANS: I can't dispute that. It's
1 a very, very important decision.
2 MS. FRANUS: My dog can come over here
3 and do this. Mason can come over here and do the right
4 thing. Judy, what's wrong with you? How can you do
6 MS. GATELLI: Fay, I'll explain later.
7 MS. FRANUS: There's nothing you can
8 say that will be right.
9 MS. GATELLI: Well, that's your
11 MS. FRANUS: I think so, because you
12 know why? People you people always have excuses. You
13 always have excuses and you think it's going to be
14 right. Well, it's not right.
15 MS. GATELLI: I've been here two months
16 and I've never hidden from anybody.
17 MS. FRANUS: Pardon me? You never
19 MS. GATELLI: I've never hidden
20 anything from anybody. I will answer --
21 MS. FRANUS: I didn't say you hid
23 MS. GATELLI: I will answer the way I
24 see fit, and that's your opinion --
25 MS. FRANUS: It's not right.
1 MS. GATELLI: -- and that's my opinion.
2 MS. FRANUS: No, it's not a matter of
3 opinion, it's wrong. It's wrong. You're wrong. Don't
4 you think this man is a little greedy? I mean, how --
5 MS. GATELLI: Listen, I've worked here
6 and Boyd Hughes in one year made $350,000, and in a
7 five-year period, he made $675,000. And I love Boyd
9 MS. FRANUS: Big deal. How about the
10 lawyer that didn't get anything because he never had a
12 MS. GATELLI: Who?
13 MS. FRANUS: A lawyer who never had a
14 chance to work for the city because he's not one of the
15 friends of the Mayor's?
16 MS. GATELLI: Well, the proposals were
17 put out to bid. Everybody had an opportunity.
18 MS. FRANUS: Isn't it amazing how Carl
19 Greco gets it again, isn't it? Something's funny here.
20 Something smells funny.
21 MS. GATELLI: Well, when we were in
22 City Hall, Boyd Hughes got it all the time.
23 MS. FRANUS: We're not -- that's in the
24 ages ago. We're not talking about Boyd Hughes.
25 MS. GATELLI: No, no, no. You have to
2 MS. FRANUS: That's your excuse, Judy.
3 MS. GATELLI: Yes, it is my excuse,
4 because I worked there and I worked in that department.
5 MS. FRANUS: It's flimsy. It's not
6 good enough.
7 MS. GATELLI: That's your opinion.
8 MS. FRANUS: It's my opinion. I hope
9 everybody in the City of Scranton that's listening to
10 this will realize what you're doing. Not just me up
11 here, there's people at home saying, That's right.
12 Carl Greco shouldn't one more penny from us, us, me,
13 and everybody here and everybody in the city. I'm sick
14 of paying Carl Greco.
15 MS. GATELLI: Well, if we're not paying
16 Carl Greco, we're going to pay Boyd Hughes.
17 MS. FRANUS: Not that much. And why
18 Boyd Hughes?
19 MS. GATELLI: It's going to be
20 $100,000, no matter who gets it. Did the bell ring?
21 MS. FRANUS: Did the bell ring 40 times
22 before me and they talked for 20 minutes later?
23 MS. GATELLI: Yes, but -- I will answer
24 further when the time comes to discuss the --
25 MS. EVANS: Just to clarify what was
1 discussed here. I do have a newspaper article that
2 verifies the fact that in a ten-year period, the total
3 amount of three law firms was $1.25 million during the
4 Connors Administration, and I think it's important to
5 keep in mind that in those times there were major
6 projects that were undertaken, the Mall at Steamtown
7 being the primary among those, that was a monstrous
9 It was during those years, also, that
10 the Hilton Hotel began. Also, the first work on the
11 Hotel Casey and the purchase of that for an eventual
12 garage. So, there were projects that were undertaken
13 during those years that, in my opinion, probably were
14 worth far more than the $1.25 million that was spent
15 over a ten-year period. If we were paying for that
16 today, God help us in terms of the attorneys we're
17 using now.
18 MS. FRANUS: Why do you feel Mr. Greco
19 shouldn't get that contract?
20 MS. EVANS: Well, I'll discuss that
22 MS. FRANUS: Okay. Thank you.
23 MS. GATELLI: Les Spindler.
24 MR. SPINDLER: Good evening, Council.
25 Les Spindler, Scranton resident. It's going to sound
1 like Mrs. Franus and I rehearsed our lines, but I'm
2 going to talk about the same thing she did.
3 Mrs. Gatelli, a while back you said
4 you're nobody's rubber stamp. If that's true, then how
5 can you vote for Carl Greco for his contract when he
6 wasn't even the low bid?
7 This man just went out and bought
8 $120,000 Mercedes, and his son got a $50,000 car. How
9 do you think that makes the rest of the people in this
10 city feel? How could you say you're not a rubber stamp
11 when you're okaying for this deal?
12 That's why people are moving out of
13 this city, because I think deals are being made with
14 the Mayor. And the politics has to stop here. We need
15 people move into this city, not move out.
16 I was leaving the parade the other day,
17 a gentleman with a beautiful family, two young
18 daughters came up to me, he said, Keep up the good work
19 at Council. You do a great job. He said, I left the
20 city because of this clown, and we know who he meant by
22 Now, these things has to stop, like
23 Mrs. Franus said. It's all politics, and I hope you do
24 change your mind tonight, Mrs. Gatelli. Because if you
25 don't, then it does make you a rubber stamp. I'm sorry
1 if you don't like what I said.
2 Next thing, before the election the
3 Mayor said that we're going to great this great Irish
4 restaurant in the new parking garage, does anybody know
5 where it is? I think it was another idle campaign
7 MR. COURTRIGHT: Les, they had a sign
8 hung up there the other day, so I'm guessing maybe it's
10 MR. SPINDLER: Well, it was supposed to
11 have been there by now.
12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yeah. I don't know
13 for sure. I saw a sign, though.
14 MR. SPINDLER: Okay. Well, maybe we
15 got a sign but no restaurant.
16 The next thing, Mr. Courtright, you
17 might be able to help me on this, I think there was
18 something, like, between 60 and 90 arrests at the
19 parade on Saturday?
20 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't know the exact
21 amount, but there was --
22 MR. SPINDLER: I heard anywhere from 60
23 to --
24 MR. COURTRIGHT: -- quite a few.
25 MR. SPINDLER: Now, I've been saying
1 this for years, I think it's ridiculous that the bars
2 open at seven o'clock. They open at seven in the
3 morning. Guys go in there, not just guys, I guess
4 girls, too, people go in there. By the time the parade
5 starts, they're smashed, starting trouble, starting
6 fights. I think it's ridiculous. I think the bars
7 should be made to open not until noontime.
8 Now, could Council possibly make up an
9 ordinance to do that? Would your solicitor know that?
10 MS. GATELLI: I don't know. Attorney
11 Minora, would we --
12 MR. MINORA: The bars are under the
13 Liquor Control Board of Pennsylvania, not City Council.
14 MR. SPINDLER: I thought that, but I
15 thought maybe Council --
16 MS. GATELLI: I remember, Mr. Spindler,
17 a couple years ago them being asked not to open that
18 early, and I believe they opened anyway.
19 MR. SPINDLER: I think it's totally
20 outrageous. They're just doing it to make a buck for
21 one day.
22 MS. GATELLI: If you saw in the paper,
23 they had a lot of damage to their restaurants.
24 MS. EVANS: Uh-huh.
25 MR. SPINDLER: Well, maybe they'll
1 learn their lesson. Thank you.
2 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Thank you. Kathy
4 MS. POCIUS: Kathy Pocius, 2933 Cedar
5 Avenue. I'm here tonight on the agenda item 6-A, the
6 vacating of Murphy Court.
7 As I stated last week, the problem I
8 have on this is without knowing what the developer has
9 in mind, I think vacating this before we know what is
10 going in there would be a problem.
11 The traffic on Davis Street is
12 excessive. There is -- the church is right there, and
13 I see the developers are here tonight, so possibly they
14 are going to say what they have planned for that
15 particular area.
16 To spend, I think they said $1.7
17 million and not have some type of idea -- they have to
18 know something. And that's all we want. Maybe it will
19 be a viable project that we can support, but until we
20 know what you're going to do, there's problems. Thank
22 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Michael
24 MR. GARZARELLA: Good evening, Council.
25 My name is Michael Garzarella, and it is with great
1 reluctance that I speak tonight on the topic of
2 redevelopment. For as last week's meeting proves, it
3 is greatly controversial.
4 Given Scranton's history of blight and
5 decay, redevelopment would seem to be a great benison,
6 and well-planned redevelopment is indeed worth
8 However, much of our current
9 redevelopment is based on unsound economic principles.
10 Too many people have been excluded from this planning,
11 and, thus, from the concomitant prosperity.
12 Indeed, an increased stratification of
13 the wealth appears to be its most salient feature.
14 Some might think that the city's financial conditions
15 cannot worsen, but they can. In the future, this
16 crucial time might be regarded as having been the last
17 best hope for the city.
18 One of the most significant decisions
19 of the city's economic recovery strategy has been to
20 attract luxury housing developments. My concern is not
21 so much that no one will be able to afford them, but
22 their ramifications for those who cannot.
23 Needless to say, Scranton is not a
24 particularly affluent community. However, this
25 community has been touted as the next Aspen, Colorado
1 or Cambridge, Massachusetts.
2 Should these well-to-do migrants be
3 attracted, and the city is still a long way from that,
4 one is left to wonder what will happen to the people
5 who are here now.
6 Most people in the city already have a
7 significant challenge in simply surviving financially,
8 and their success can be attributed to the fact that
9 Scranton remains largely affordable, in terms of both
10 housing and consumer prices.
11 With this potential influx of wealth,
12 my fear is that Scranton will be locked into an
13 inflationary cycle where local businesses will cater to
14 the new aristocracy driving up prices and making living
15 in this city financially infeasible.
16 Considering the city's long history of
17 industrial strife an noblesse oblige masquerading as
18 civic-mindedness, the circumstances are right for
19 destructive gentrification.
20 Also, one main focus of the unfolding
21 economic plan has been to attract new bids. It is
22 often said that this competition will force businesses
23 to offer better prices to consumers.
24 And it is true that if these businesses
25 had approximately equal resources, ceteris paribus,
1 this would be the case.
2 However, truth of the matter is that
3 many of the businesses that could relocate here are
4 large national chains that are not loath to use
5 anti-competitive practices.
6 Using their specialized wholesaling
7 operations, such corporations would very likely force
8 the existing local businesses into bankruptcy because
9 of their inability to underprice the large chains, a
10 cruel fate, which has a remedy under the
11 Robinson-Patman Act, but is never the less hard to
12 prove in court.
13 In fact, these circumstances suggest
14 the possibility of a monopoly in this area. While one
15 often thinks of a monopoly as a company with a
16 monolithic hold over a particular market, as a legal
17 matter, a monopoly is a company which has integrated
18 its operations to the point of predating competition.
19 In one case, the Supreme Court in the
20 matter of United States versus Von's Grocery Company,
21 decided in 1966, ruled that a proposed company that
22 would only control 7.5 percent of a local market was a
23 monopoly because it had the effect of eliminating
24 legitimate competition.
25 While Scranton should not send a
1 message that new business is verboten, it must not
2 pursue new business to the detriment of our local
3 economic foundation.
4 To conclude, you are all in an
5 unenviable position. Your assigned task is to solve
6 the city's nearly irreconcilable crisis; namely, how to
7 attract the needed infusion of new economic blood
8 without spending this city into a financial abyss.
9 The only two admonitions I can give are
10 that private wealth must never be the handmaiden of
11 public squalor, and that our fondest hopes must never
12 obscure the grim realities. I thank you all for
14 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.
15 MS. EVANS: Mr. Garzarella, it is my
16 opinion that you might be genuinely better seated up
17 here. Very well spoken.
18 MS. GATELLI: Is there anyone else that
19 would like to address Council?
20 MR. STUCKER: Hello, Mr. Courtright.
21 Okay. We have a couple problems. We have a couple
22 drains that are blocked on Providence Square. There's
23 one on the bottom of the hill by Rite Aide Drugstore,
24 there's one on the bottom of the hill there, and
25 there's a couple on the top of the hill. They're all
1 blocked with leafs and dirt and garbage.
2 Now, over on Ash Street, I just tore
3 our stove apart last week, and it's laying there
4 alongside the road. They're supposed to pick it up.
5 They never came back. Nobody told them about it.
6 Everybody just started kicking it. It was all rotted,
7 so I started kicking it and knocked it loose. There's
8 pieces there. There's a few holes right there, too,
9 where the bus stops on Ash Street. And On Parrot
10 Avenue, too, the holes on Parrot Avenue were never
11 filled in.
12 MR. COURTRIGHT: We asked to have that
13 paved last week. We asked that they pave Parrot
14 Avenue, Jim. Well, they didn't it yet, I know. We
15 just asked last week.
16 MR. STUCKER: Okay. And the busses, we
17 have a hard time downtown. They're trying to stop, and
18 there's cars all the way next to the bus where the
19 busses go by Oppenheim's and the Globe -- Oppenheim's
20 that's across the street.
21 We can't -- the busses can't get parked
22 to get people on the bus. They got to park in the
23 middle of the road sometimes on the edge of the road.
24 I complained about that last year about the busses
25 parking there. Now the busses are complaining they
1 can't park. I'm afraid somebody is going to get hurt
2 or stub their toe or twist their ankle.
3 And about last -- I think last week we
4 had a wreck with a motorcycle and a car, the same
5 place, on the other side of the road by the bank.
6 So, we -- and I don't want to put this
7 on TV, I will give you a picture and the name of the
9 MR. COURTRIGHT: Jim, I know you talked
10 to me about that. You have to tell the police about
12 MR. STUCKER: I did, and they're not
13 doing nothing about it.
14 MR. COURTRIGHT: I can't -- I don't
15 want to say what they're doing there. I can't stop
16 them from doing that. The police need to stop them.
17 MR. STUCKER: Yeah.
18 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm sorry about that.
19 Maybe you can tell the landlord what they're doing
21 MR. STUCKER: Okay. And I'm going to
22 vote for Judy -- or, Mrs. Evans, I'm going to vote for
23 her again. She's going to be on Providence Square
24 around the corner. I'm going to be there to vote for
1 MS. EVANS: Thank you.
2 MR. STUCKER: And Mr. Murphy, his name
3 is, he doesn't want me to vote for her, he wants me to
4 vote for him. It's my choice. I got my choice. I'm
5 voting for her.
6 MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Mr. Stucker.
7 MS. EVANS: Thank you.
8 MR. STUCKER: I'm going back in the
9 hospital again, a knee I damaged. That's why I got the
10 brace on.
11 MS. GATELLI: Well, good luck.
12 MR. STUCKER: Yeah. Okay. Anyone else
13 care to address Council?
14 MR. LYMAN: Raymond Lyman. I just got
15 one problem and one question. The problem is on the
16 300 block of Phelps Street, its catch basin, it needs
17 to be fixed. And I talked about this for years now.
18 Ms. Evans, you and Mr. Courtright and
19 Mr. McTiernan knows about it, and I talked about this
20 already about two prior Councils about this,
21 Mrs. Gatelli, and it needs to be corrected.
22 Now, the second question, now, this is
23 part of a group that I'm a member of, it's not the
24 Scranton Taxpayers Association, it's the Scranton Plan.
25 Now, we got a copy of the Scranton
1 Plan, we made copies of it, and I read it, and the
2 question I have is, Why doesn't City Council initiate
3 the Scranton Plan?
4 MS. GATELLI: If it's the Scranton Plan
5 I think you're talking about, I believe that's a
6 Chamber of Commerce project.
7 MR. LYMAN: No, not that one, I'm
8 talking about the one that could get us out of debt.
9 That's the one we got.
10 MS. GATELLI: I don't believe I've ever
11 seen that.
12 MR. LYMAN: It was up in OCD office.
13 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, the Recovery Plan?
14 MR. LYMAN: No, not that, not the
15 Recovery Plan. We have a copy of that. It's a joke.
16 It's a joke, in my opinion. I mean, we looked at it.
17 It's a joke.
18 MS. GATELLI: Do you have a copy of
19 what you're talking about?
20 MR. LYMAN: Yeah. Maybe when I come to
21 the Taxpayers Association --
22 MS. GATELLI: Yes, bring it with you,
23 because I'm not familiar with what you're talking
25 MR. LYMAN: Yeah. Now, our meeting is
1 coming up in March, the end of March, so, maybe when I
2 come here, I'll bring you a copy. It's a big thick
3 thing like this, and it lays out all how they get this
4 city out of debt, how to bring in jobs, and it was made
5 15, 16 years ago.
6 And some people spoke here about this,
7 and that's how our group heard about it, and my friend
8 went up there. He paid 20-some dollars for it,
9 because, you know, all the pages, and he got it and we
10 all -- he made copies and I got a big stack myself of
11 it, and I've been reading it.
12 And I said, it's kind of ridiculous
13 that this Mayor didn't initiate it and the Council
14 initiate it. I mean, we could have gotten ourselves
15 out of debt within a year or two.
16 I mean, I said if I was a councilman, I
17 would initiate this plan. The first thing I would do
18 is get this Pennsylvania Economy League, get them out
19 of here and initiate this. Cut the fat out of the city
20 and do it.
21 MS. GATELLI: Well, make sure we get a
22 copy. Thank you.
23 MR. LYMAN: Okay. And I got one more
24 little thing, I hope Syracuse wins, and I hope my team,
25 too, Bucknell. Thank you.
1 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.
2 MR. DAVIS: Assalaam Alaikum. My name
3 is Jim Davis. I came -- I was sitting at home, and I
4 saw this Asa come up and you gave him a citation, and I
5 said, let me run over and get a picture of him for the
6 Mellania News, and by the time I got here he was gone
7 already, but I'm hoping that -- Kay, can you put me in
8 touch with his parents or something that I can get a
9 picture for him possibly?
10 MS. GARVEY: I don't believe I have his
11 phone number or anything.
12 MR. DAVIS: Okay. All right. Thank
14 MS. GATELLI: He goes to West Scranton
15 High School.
16 MR. DAVIS: I figured that she would
17 know. All right. West Scranton High School. What is
18 his last name, Asa what?
19 MS. GARVEY: Lucas.
20 MR. DAVIS: Asa Lucas, right. This
21 young man here spoke brilliantly. I've sat through
22 (UNTRANSCRIBABLE), I've sat through a lot of things.
23 And you really anchor the ship. Really, you've spoken
24 very nicely, very correctly. I commend you for it. I
25 commend all of you for being here again. And I would
1 love to take a picture of you after it's all over.
2 Because I saw what you did after the
3 last meeting, you all got together and talked about
4 what you were doing after the -- it was on the screen.
5 Here you stood, you didn't realize it, but you were
6 still being filmed.
7 And I think that's the mark of an
8 excellent group of young minds, and I would like to
9 show that to the kids at the Progressive Center.
10 I'm very involved at the Progressive
11 Center. I was sitting at home writing a proposal for
12 their leadership and training course when Asa came on,
13 so I ran over here. But I'm saying I'm glad I came
14 just to hear your speech in person. It's different in
15 person than it is on television. It really is.
16 And I think the kids should want to
17 come here and listen to these speeches made by people
18 trying to defend their way of life, because that's what
19 this is, defends your way of life.
20 It may not all be pretty, but it's all
21 the same thing. It's very important. It's important
22 that our kids know that they can express themselves.
23 And if you teachers and you principals understand that
24 to be so, then we have to have a better class of kin,
25 we've got to have a better class of student, and we're
1 not doing what we should be doing as support groups to
2 our students.
3 I really feel that to be true. And
4 we're trying to do more at the Progressive Center.
5 That's more at the present time.
6 Thank you for your time. I'm not going
7 to stay long. I'm not going to -- Mr. Minora or
8 Attorney Minora, leave your bell alone tonight.
9 There is one thing that I wanted to
10 say, though, we are getting ready to go into another
11 election session, and I really want to impress those
12 that are out there that are not registered to vote,
13 please become active in your city government, in your
14 state government, because without you, this government
15 does not become that of a people, it becomes that of
16 some people. And that's what he was talking about in
17 his speech, how we become a class rich society, and
18 everything we're doing is towards a certain class of
19 people. It's not fair, it's not just, but it's
21 And unless you become involved, you
22 will not be a part of those that are being protected,
23 fed, employed, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera in this
25 So, please, get out, vote -- vote your
1 conscience. I'm not telling you how to vote for or who
2 to vote for, vote your conscious. Get to know who each
3 one of the characters are that are running for your
4 offices. Know what they stand for, know what they
5 think they're going to do, because what they think
6 they're going t do and what they do sometimes is a lot
7 different, and you have to learn how to gauge that,
9 There's a certain amount of credibility
10 that they have to carry. And you guys are right at the
11 stage and the time. A year from now, two years from
12 now, you will be voters, some three years from now, and
13 we will need you to vote with open minds, good
14 intelligence, and that's what we hope to do. That way
15 we an make this crowd representative of your thoughts.
16 Thank you again. Have a nice evening.
17 MS. GATELLI: Thank you, Mr. Davis.
18 Anyone else care to speak before Council?
19 MR. JONES: Good evening. I'm Attorney
20 William Jones, and I'm representing Moosic Realty. The
21 reason why I'm here this evening deals with Item 6-A,
22 the vacation of Murphy Street or Murphy Court. I
23 applaud Council for entertaining that.
24 Moosic Realty has invested close to
25 $1.5 million with regard to a redevelopment project for
1 the good of the city in this particular area. It is
2 also -- it will also supply between 40 and 50 jobs to
3 the city with regard to it.
4 I would just like to go over that
5 particular area which it occurs, because I was involved
6 in the vacation of Krist court, which is right across,
7 in 1999, when, I believe, Mr. Pocius, if I recall
8 correctly, was the head of Council, I came to speak on
9 the vacation of Krist Court. And Council -- Krist
10 Court is directly across the street where another
11 revitalization project took place. You now presently
12 have a bank and the drugstore over there, which serves
13 the community.
14 At that time I came to speak, and
15 Mr. Pocius was very much in favor of it, as was all the
16 members of Council. And they passed that one. That
17 legislation went through the courts.
18 It also came back to Council in the
19 year 2003. Ordinance No. 187 was, once again, for the
20 same portion, Krist Court, which is across the street
21 from our project, came before Council, and Council, and
22 I applaud them for doing that, because it brought a
23 revitalization project to the city.
24 They voted for Ordinance No. 187, and
25 it passed, and that's why you have new development, new
1 construction, which obviously my clients will be
2 providing for it.
3 I know that Murphy Court as it
4 presently existed, some questions arose with regard to
5 it. Presently it's 12.5 feet wide. I'm sure after
6 consulting with your engineers and why the city
7 proposed this legislation is under all of the existing
8 engineer standards, it's unsafe.
9 One of the reasons, I presume, that
10 you're doing this is not only for the economic
11 revitalization, but your citizens are at risk, because
12 at 12.5 feet a standard car is 7 feet wide. If you
13 have the two cars in that particular area, they can't
15 Additionally there are other standards
16 with regard to the courts or the establishment of a
17 court. Pursuant to your own subdivision ordinances and
18 your own road ordinances, that court as it presently
19 exists couldn't exist because it places your employees,
20 but more importantly, your residents' lives are at
21 stake by the existence of that court. Presumably,
22 that's why Council had the hindsight of vacating Krist
23 Court and why this is on the agenda this evening.
24 And I think that that is -- I applaud
25 it for that. My clients have an economic interest in
1 it, but I recognize that Council has the overall safety
2 of the populus.
3 Additionally, a question came up with
4 regard to the legal justification. And the
5 Pennsylvania Supreme Court in the seminal decision of
6 Cohen versus Simpson Realty, it happened in Scranton,
8 The case that we all use for the
9 vacation of this alley is the Globe Store wanted to
10 build a garage. There was an alley of a similar size
11 to this one that went through where the Globe Store
12 parking garage is today.
13 The Council at that point vacated the
14 alley. There was someone that did not abut, and I
15 bring out to Council, my client owns both sides of this
16 court as it presently exists, and the Simpson Company,
17 the Cleveland Simpson Company, which owned the Globe
18 Store at the time, they owned both sides of it.
19 Well, the Council -- the City Council,
20 the Scranton City Council in that case, also had the
21 foresight to say where there is an economic
22 justification for a project, as well as safety
23 concerns, I presume, that they went forward with it,
24 and that project went, and it obviously provided a
25 vital service to the city.
1 But why I bring that to your attention,
2 is I understand that there was some other precedent
3 that there may have been some question with regard to
5 The precedent from the Pennsylvania
6 Supreme Court is what is binding, and in that case, the
7 same City Council, I'm not sure if it was five members
8 or if it was the older Council where they actually had
9 two that passed it, had the foresight to go forward
10 with it.
11 So, obviously Scranton has always been
12 in the forefront for both safety and for economic
13 revitalization, to provide the construction jobs to our
14 industry, as well as to provide the mercantile tax, the
15 gross receipts tax that comes with it, as well as the
16 increased real estate taxes.
17 I do understand that there were some
18 questions as to, and I heard it when I was sitting
19 there, with regard to safety and the traffic.
20 Obviously they're both state highways, and we would
21 have to apply for a highway occupancy permit, so,
22 therefore, the public would be safer than a
23 pre-existing alley that didn't have it.
24 And with regard to the uses, I realize
25 that doesn't come into play as to whether it's safe or
1 unsafe to vacate a substandard alley, but I can tell
2 the Council tonight what is proposed is a chain
3 restaurant, a national chain restaurant for that
4 corner. There's an additionally another outbuilding
5 that will have a retail store or stores in it on that
7 But time is of the essence. Similar to
8 all projects, national chains do not wait. That's why
9 I applaud the fact that we're into the second reading
10 and that will not deny the city the opportunity or lose
11 this project to an another municipality or to, in this
12 case, to put my client who have invested -- they
13 believe, like you do, in the City of Scranton, they
14 have invested a million and a half dollars and are
15 putting additional dollars in there.
16 So, we've explained that we do have the
17 uses, and I can share that with you now, for that
18 justification. Two, I applaud you that you have a
19 substandard road under all the America Association of
20 Highway and Roads, they actually want you to go about
21 16 feet or higher, so you're at least 3 feet below.
22 Thank you, Amil, for the bell, and I
23 appreciate that it is on the agenda. I understand this
24 is only a second reading and you have next week, and
25 ultimately you have a vote, but at least this would be,
1 at least in this area, it is the second alley for which
2 Council had the foresight, because they recognize
3 projects have a certain life and they can die
5 But, once again, this is a more of a
6 safety concern for your residents, and we believe in
7 the City of Scranton, that's why we have put close to a
8 million and a half dollars towards it. Thank you.
9 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mr. Jones, may I ask
10 you one question, please? You mentioned that there's a
11 major retail store coming in there and one other --
12 MR. JONES: A national chain.
13 MR. COURTRIGHT: Restaurant, I'm sorry.
14 Have you made the residents aware of that now or no?
15 Are they aware --
16 MR. JONES: I'm making Council aware of
18 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm just asking,
19 because I know a couple of the residents came and they
20 were concerned about what would be going in it. Is
21 that public knowledge now? Do the residents know yet
22 or no?
23 MR. NAVICH: We just spoke with
24 Mrs. Pocius outside.
25 MS. EVANS: What?
1 MR. COURTRIGHT: They spoke to
2 Mrs. Pocius outside.
3 MS. EVANS: Okay. But the rest of the
4 residents who were here last week?
5 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm guessing you just
6 found out who was going in there or are you just
7 releasing that information?
8 MR. JONES: I'm releasing that
9 information. Obviously it's competitive to give the
10 chain, I'm not releasing the name for the particular
11 chain because, one, that puts my clients' money and
12 economics at risk, and it also puts the City of
13 Scranton at risk, because if you I release it now,
14 we're only into the second reading.
15 Obviously they're time sensitive.
16 There's a large likelihood that you will lose that to a
18 MR. COURTRIGHT: I was just curious,
19 because I know when the residents came the last time,
20 they were concerned about what would be going in there.
21 One thing they were concerned about is if a 24-hour
22 mini mart, gas station --
23 MR. JONES: Absolutely not.
24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Right. And that's the
25 only reason I'm asking you, are they aware, because
1 quite possibly if it's, as Mrs. Pocius stated earlier,
2 if it's something that the residents can live with and
3 it's good for the community, then there would be no
4 opposition from the residents, and that's the only
5 reason I'm asking are they aware of it.
6 MR. JONES: If they are not, I'll make
7 it my duty to inform them between the second reading
8 and the third reading, which gives us the opportunity,
9 but more importantly, keeps the project alive for the
10 City of Scranton.
11 And it isn't something that I'm
12 bringing here that we're asking for economic dollars or
13 that we're asking for anything, other than to give us
14 the opportunity to keep going forward.
15 And we have, and I know that you have
16 heard from the developers, that they have put a million
17 and a half dollars. There aren't too many people that
18 are saying, we will invest in the city and we will take
19 those types of risks to go forward with it.
20 We will do that. And since we're only
21 at the second reading, we'll take the time, and I'll
22 report back to you by the third reading that we have,
23 in fact, and I'll talk to the one woman that was here,
24 and I understand there may have been one or two others,
25 between those two, but the project remains alive.
1 MS. GATELLI: Attorney Jones, do you
2 have any plans to go to the planning commission meeting
3 next week?
4 MR. JONES: Yes, I'll attend the
5 planning commission.
6 MS. GATELLI: Are you on the agenda?
7 MR. JONES: Yes. I'm informed from my
8 client that we are. I would like to share with Council
9 at this time the Lackawanna County Regional Planning
10 Commission has met on this --
11 MS. GATELLI: Yes, we have that letter.
12 MR. JONES: -- and they have
13 recommended approval.
14 MS. GATELLI: We have that letter.
15 MR. JONES: And the reason they
16 recommend approval is you look at the impact of where
17 an ordinance is being vacated. We owe on both sides of
18 the street, and I'm sure for those persons that are in
19 that area, I have quite a few clients, Murphy Court is,
20 one, not only is it risky to use it, but it really
21 hasn't been paved in quite a number of years. It's not
22 it in the best of conditions, so --
23 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Jones, are you aware
24 that if we vacate Murphy Court, because you own both
25 sides of Murphy Court, that the project can't go to the
1 west of Murphy Court anyway because the zone does not
2 allow it?
3 MR. JONES: I'm aware of the zones that
4 are down there, yes. If you're asking me do I know
5 that there's a different zone in that area, yes, I'm
6 aware of a different zone.
7 The one Council should be concerned
8 with there are residents and property owners, including
9 my client. With regard to this vacation, this gets rid
10 of an unsafe condition, even if we develop on our side
11 of the street. You have a condition that is unsafe.
12 It puts people's lives at risk.
13 More importantly with regard to it, my
14 clients don't intend in going into that residential
15 area, the R zone for the development itself. So, our
16 plans don't need that. We do need the vacation of that
17 to keep the project alive, and I appreciate that I have
18 the week to go forward with that, because that's a
19 substantial investment for the city. I know --
20 MS. GATELLI: You won't be asking for a
21 zoning change on that westerly side?
22 MR. JONES: On the westerly side?
23 That's on the far side of it? If that's conducive --
24 if we get a client for the westerly side of the avenue,
25 yes, I'll come in with that, or if we have other
1 economic development that can -- we don't have one now,
2 but if we do have one, yes, and I would ask Council to
3 entertain that, and if you so desire and it fits within
4 the goals and the planning that goes forward, it's
5 under the municipalities planning code, the whole
6 process that goes with that.
7 If it was advisable and the governing
8 body saw fit, I could bring that back. I can't really
9 say that -- and I'd love to be able to say that, and so
10 would my clients, that we would like to -- that we have
11 other people that are investigating in the City of
12 Scranton, but we only have this one particular project
13 now, so --
14 MS. GATELLI: It will only go as far as
15 Murphy Court?
16 MR. JONES: Yes. That's all we have at
17 this time.
18 MS. EVANS: To the north or the south
19 of Murphy Court?
20 MS. GATELLI: It's east and west.
21 MR. JONES: It's actually to the west.
22 I believe it parallels Birney Avenue.
23 MS. GATELLI: Towards the church.
24 MS. EVANS: Right. But I'm referencing
25 the map that your clients presented us last week, and
1 they indicated Murphy Court ran through the middle, and
2 they indicated that they owned the property both to the
3 south and to the north, according ing to the map, so,
4 perhaps they recall what I'm discussing.
5 Is this chain restaurant and retail
6 store going, based on that map, to the north or to the
8 MR. JONES: It would be on the south,
9 which I'll also say is the east.
10 MS. GATELLI: It's east.
11 MR. JONES: So, on the southeast side
12 of it, it's remaining in what --
13 MS. GATELLI: On Birney Avenue, Birney
14 Avenue side.
15 MR. JONES: Yes, it's remaining on the
16 Birney Avenue side, the C-N side. The neighborhood
17 commercial area that it's presently zoned.
18 I would like to say that we have
19 another client or another project to go across there.
20 It's obviously something that would be good for the
22 I don't have that at this time, but
23 projects of a magnitude like this where you have over a
24 million and a half dollars involved and construction
25 costs, I would guess probably, and I'm not an engineer,
1 it would probably be over another million dollars.
2 So, for somebody to put two and a half
3 million dollars in a zone that it presently allows for
4 it, we're just trying to alleviate one of the safety
6 And I recognize the sensitivity of
7 different people that live in the area, so I appreciate
8 having that week, keeping the project alive, and we
9 will make a point, I'll make a pointed effort to do
11 MS. EVANS: And what is the status of
12 the two remaining properties?
13 MR. JONES: I'm not ware of two
14 remaining -- of our two remaining properties?
15 MS. EVANS: There are two residential
16 homes that your client has not purchased in that area.
17 MR. JONES: Over on -- there's a --
18 it's two streets where there's Birney Avenue, Murphy
19 Court, and then there's another road, and I --
20 MS. GATELLI: Cedar Avenue. They're on
21 Cedar and Davis.
22 MR. JONES: There are two homes on
23 Cedar Avenue that --
24 MS. GATELLI: He owns one of them. You
25 still own the one, right, the one with the swimming
2 MR. PLISKO: There's three homes on
3 Cedar Avenue right now. We own one of them. We're in
4 the process of owning the other two, which is the
5 Howards and the Donlans. We will be buying them, as
6 long as we get approval in the future to rezone that
7 commercial neighborhood.
8 We're not looking for commercial, we're
9 looking for commercial neighborhood. We don't plan on
10 putting anything there that's going to be a 24-hour
11 service. We don't need the headaches with phone calls
12 at four o'clock in the morning. We're doing it for the
13 betterment of the community, so that the community
14 wouldn't have to travel out of town to buy a videotape
15 or something like that like. It's for the betterment
16 of the community.
17 MS. EVANS: Have you been in contact
18 with those two homeowners since last week's meeting?
19 MR. NAVICH: Yes. We have spoken to
20 the attorney, their attorney, and their attorney did
21 express interest on their clients and that he is in
22 touch now with our attorney, which at this point we're
23 not allowed to give the information out on that. But
24 we have been in touch, yes.
25 MS. GATELLI: What happens if we allow
1 you the vacation of Murphy Court and we don't allow you
2 to change the zone?
3 MR. PLISKO: I'll have no choice but to
4 put up residential houses.
5 MR. JONES: But more importantly, we're
6 dealing with the vacation of the roadway.
7 MS. GATELLI: I know, but we have to
8 look at the big picture, too.
9 MR. JONES: That's fine. And I
10 understand sometimes that that is one of the factors
11 that comes into your decision. There's nothing that we
12 would like better than to, one, acquire the rest of
13 that block, and, B, to have a project. We just don't
14 have one at this time.
15 And to further address Mrs. Evans,
16 obviously they have other counsel than myself that only
17 deals with zoning and vacation and other municipal
18 issues that come up. So, I was unaware that there had
19 been negotiations on that.
20 They're using other counsel for that,
21 and that's everyone's prerogative. I just wish we also
22 had this young gentleman here who was very articulate
23 and he can further explain the project.
24 I thank you for your time, and I
25 appreciate that we will get a reading so we can go
1 forward, and hear that we will make a -- I'll make a
2 concerted effort to talk to the neighbors in that area
3 and it still allows this project to go forward, so, I
4 do thank you for that. Thank you.
5 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Is there
6 anyone else?
7 MR. ELMAN: Ronny Elman. A penny for
8 your thoughts. You think I'm up here to badmouth
9 Mr. Garcia again, don't you? But I assure -- I won my
10 case. They moved the trailer. I walked Lump by there
11 Tuesday night, no trailer, and I'm happy.
12 But I shouldn't have had to have gone
13 to all this trouble and agitate a whole neighborhood
14 for blight, you know? That shouldn't happen in this
15 city like that. It ought to be addressed. There's
16 good laws on the books that nobody enforces.
17 And like I said, I appreciate, I don't
18 know who did it from -- who put pressure on him, but
19 the trailer is gone. His place still looks like a
20 landfill, but I'm happy. It's somebody else's problem
21 now. I don't know where he put it.
22 But last week there was a couple
23 intelligent comments about buying the grater for the
24 streets and sharing it. The next thing I knew or heard
25 on the news that Mr. Munchak had purchased it; is that
1 right? He said that we're going to have to share it
2 with Carbondale.
3 MS. GATELLI: Yes.
4 MR. ELMAN: You do not loan equipment
5 out. I've worked for all my life around cars and
6 trucks and equipment, you do not loan a piece of
7 equipment out. It's just not done, unless you're a
8 rental, you know. This is an asinine idea.
9 A piece of machinery like this needs to
10 be maintained. It has hammers in it that wear out it's
11 a constant -- for the whole life of it, it's going to
12 have to be maintained and parts bought for it, and I
13 just never heard of something so ridiculous in trying
14 to share something that you could use four or five
15 months with other people.
16 Then to make it worse, they said that
17 we're going to give it to the other communities free.
18 This is unheard of, you know.
19 And then to make it worse, they said
20 that the communities we're going to loan it to have to
21 have their own loader operator go down to push it.
22 I can move a loader from point A to B,
23 and I'm not qualified to push a grater down the street.
24 I tell you, that take some kind of expertise.
25 What if he runs into a manhole cover?
1 There goes the machine and maybe an injury from it.
2 And it just takes us a split second, no matter how
3 careful somebody is, for an injury to happen around
4 machinery. There's always a lot of horsing around.
5 Last year, like I said, I've been
6 around machinery my whole life, last year for a split
7 second, I lowered my guard, and I got hit by a crane.
8 I walked into a crane. I had 123 stitches in my face.
9 I knocked out ten teeth. I hurt my arm, my back,
11 And that's not pertaining to what I'm
12 saying. What if somebody in Throop has borrowing our
13 machine and has an injury like that?
14 I was fortunate, because Mr. DeNaples
15 had just excellent insurance. I just -- they just bent
16 over backwards for everything I want. I go to all
17 kinds of doctors. I mean, what would the city do for
18 an injury, $100,000 injury?
19 This idea of loaning machinery out is
20 just -- it's just -- you just don't do it, especially
21 free. I mean, you know, if it breaks down, who is
22 supposed to repair it?
23 This is just a silly as our mayor
24 tearing down houses for everybody at our expense, and
25 then there's no money when a house burns down in the
2 You know, that house, I can use that
3 one that everybody probably knows, the big house on
4 Sanderson and Green Ridge, we used city labor to tear
5 it down, city equipment, a truck hauled it off to the
6 landfill, we paid for it. What did we get out of all
7 that? It doesn't make sense, except spending our
8 money, and then there's no money when somebody says
9 they want a house burned down -- addressed.
10 This city is just -- you know, these
11 people right here are going to address this in five,
12 ten, twenty years. Most of them will move on to
13 greener pastures probably. It's nice to see a pretty
14 face at the table for a change anyway.
15 But let's just say four or five of them
16 are going to be here in 20 years, they're going to
17 inherit a, what, a $220 million debt. Is that what you
18 said last week? There's less than $40,000 taxpayers
20 Let me urge you to do one thing, that's
21 to listen and think about what goes on at these
22 meetings. And when you start voting, you want the
23 opposite of what is happening in this city and county.
24 You don't want to follow what is going on here right
25 now. Just take my word for it as a taxpayer . Thank
2 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Anyone else
3 care to speak before Council?
4 MR. SLEDZINSKI: I want to say one
5 thing tonight. Jerry, good luck tonight. And remember
6 one thing when you come home, standing ovation for the
7 guy. Thank you.
8 MS. GATELLI: We all second that,
10 MR. SLEDZINSKI: Thanks, Judy.
11 MS. GATELLI: By the way, Mr. Spindler,
12 I talked to Jerry's mom and told her that we were
13 interested in doing a proclamation for him, so she's
14 going to let us know when everything winds down. She's
15 not sure that he'll be able to come, but I said that
16 her and her husband can come and accept it for him.
17 So, we're going to be in touch with her.
18 MR. SPINDLER: It would be nice if he
19 could come.
20 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, well, she's not
21 sure about that.
22 MR. LYMAN: How about naming a street?
23 MS. GATELLI: It's not a bad idea.
24 MR. LYMAN: Rename Capouse Avenue
25 McNamara Avenue.
1 MS. KRAKE: Good evening, Council. My
2 name is Nancy Krake, and this evening I'd like to talk
3 about 7-D, which is hiring the Carl Greco.
4 I'd just like to say earlier Mrs. Evans
5 mentioned something that I was also going to say, but
6 I'll repeat it. I happened to be here when Boyd Hughes
7 was here, and I had the privilege of working with him
8 and Lina Rayo and Kitsy Hart on the projects of the
9 mall and the train station. They were voluminous and
10 intense, to say the least.
11 And I also believe it's safe to say
12 that the Greco firm has not come close to this type of
13 work or the amount of it.
14 Approximately two weeks ago I attended
15 the library board meeting, and it was there that
16 Carl Greco made statements directly to stop the funding
17 of Channel 61 for 2006.
18 His first statement was he did not feel
19 it should be funded because they did not have an
20 itemized bill. Strange that's coming from Carl Greco,
21 but nonetheless, he did say that.
22 Well, fair enough, you may think,
23 except for the fact that apparently there were only a
24 few items on the budget for Channel 61, and they were
25 very clear to everyone but Mr. Greco.
1 Mr. Greco also felt that the money for
2 Channel 61 for 2006 would be better spent on the
3 heating system renovation the library will have to
4 undergo. Apparently this was a news flash to him.
5 They need to change from city steam to
6 gas to heat the library. This is not news to anyone
7 else. The city has been looking funding for this
8 change for the heating system for several years. And
9 since this city owns the library building, perhaps
10 they're either solely responsible for this cost or they
11 may be able to help find funding for the library, as
12 they're finding funding for the city.
13 Or as Mrs. Gatelli mentioned earlier,
14 we collect $250,000 a year in taxes, perhaps some of
15 that money could be used.
16 Also, Mrs. Gatelli told us earlier
17 administrations hire lawyers who have the same agenda
18 as they do. How crystal clear it was to everyone at
19 the library board meeting that Carl Greco and this
20 administration that he represents wanted Channel 61 to
21 be shut down for the year 2006 and forever.
22 And by the way, they didn't get their
23 way. The excellent members of the board, the library
24 board, voted to keep Channel 61 funded this year to
25 help them get on their feet, and this was in spite of
1 Carl Greco and this administration. So, I would hope
2 that everyone would think long and hard before voting
3 for this man. Thank you.
4 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.
5 MR. ANCHERANI: Good evening, Council.
6 I'm Nelson Ancherani, resident and taxpayer, city
7 employee and financial secretary of the FOP.
8 Mrs. Fanucci, last week you stated that
9 we should move on, that the city needs economic
10 development to move on, you're right, but at what
12 This city's excessive borrowing and
13 irresponsible spending is mortgaging our children's and
14 grandchildren's future for the next 28 years at a cost
15 of well over $200 million.
16 From the way you talk, you sound
17 financially blessed and not living on a fixed income or
18 from paycheck to paycheck.
19 Many of the residents of this city are
20 not as fortunate as you are. For many of the residents
21 and taxpayers, paying off the 28 years of debt and
22 higher anticipated taxes because of the reckless
23 spending of this administration is going to be a major
25 Many will have to sell their properties
1 because they won't be able to take on that burden. The
2 mayor already admitted that there will be a tax
3 increase. And what the debt is now, that tax increase
4 will be major.
5 You've also been on Council for two and
6 a half months. I've been an employee of the city for
7 30 years and have been attending Council meetings for
8 the last four years.
9 Four years ago I could have said we
10 should move on. At this point four years later, it
11 would be very difficult, if not impossible, to do.
12 Four years ago this mayor wrote a
13 Recovery Plan that called for multiple years' wage
14 freeze for city employees. We, the union employees,
15 are in the fourth year of that wage freeze.
16 The Mayor immediately violated the
17 recovery plan by giving certain city employees raises,
18 some as much as $10,000 per year.
19 He also created new positions and hired
20 new employees at higher wages of existing city
21 employees at a cost of over $5 million through 2005.
22 He then blames the unions for an
23 increase in the deficit, which he created since he took
24 office with the $3 million surplus left over by the
25 previous mayor.
1 Look at it this wav, had the Mayor
2 abided by the Recovery Plan and didn't violate it by
3 giving raises to any city employee and by treating all
4 city employees equally and fairly, no one would have a
5 grip e.
6 There wouldn't be the labor unrest or
7 animosity that exists now. We could have saved a
8 million dollars by not giving Attorney Greco for
9 $100,000 contracts that turns out to be $512,000, or
10 created a public safety office.
11 We have city solicitors who could have
12 done the work that Attorney Greco does, and we could
13 have saved the $500,000 and more, since he is up before
14 Council for another contract, and this contract doesn't
15 have a value stamped on it.
16 The public safety office would have
17 saved $500,000, and that's an office that PEL, the
18 Pennsylvania Economy League, said we didn't need.
19 That's two examples of the irresponsible spending.
20 I could go on and on. So, when it is
21 said we should move on, I say it's not going to be easy
22 to forgive and forget. Once we are burned, the scar
24 Stranger things have happened, though.
25 The Mayor could start treating the employees that he
1 has treated poorly over the last four years better. He
2 could treat his employees equally and with respect, and
3 I repeat, equally and with respect.
4 We know what the Mayor thinks of the
5 majority of city employees. We got the hint when the
6 door to the mayor's office had the glass frosted.
7 From my point of view, I don't think
8 things will change. One reason for me thinking this
9 way is the amount of grievances and arbitrations that
10 have been filed over the last four years.
11 This administration constantly violates
12 the labor contracts and has last lost numerous
13 arbitrations because of its total disregard for the
14 unions. So much for moving on.
15 And I want to thank Council for the
16 letter to the mayor about the soldiers. I also don't
17 have any faith in a letter doing any good. So, I will
18 be coming here and asking Council to draft its own
19 legislation to pay these soldiers.
20 The zoo got $30,000 in 2003 and $50,000
21 each year since. So, we want to say the animals are
22 treated better.
23 And, also, that $72 million bond issue
24 in 2003, anybody know where that $20 million went, $72
25 million bond issue. $20 is not allocated. I'd like to
1 know, you know, if anybody could find out where that
2 $20 million -- what it was allocated for. Thank you.
3 MS. GATELLI: What year was that?
4 MR. ANCHERANI: 2003.
5 MS. GATELLI: Okay.
6 MR. ANCHERANI: Around August 2003, is
7 when the mayor signed it.
8 MS. GATELLI: $72 million?
9 MS. EVANS: Uh-huh.
10 MR. ANCHERANI: $72 million. Okay.
11 Thank you.
12 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else care to speak
13 before Council?
14 MS. GARVEY: 5-A, Motions.
15 MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Evans.
16 MS. EVANS: Good evening. City Council
17 considers an important vote tonight in seventh order.
18 The issue is to provide Attorney Greco with a new OECD
19 contract for $100,000.
20 On its own, this contract might not
21 raise eyebrows, but it's part of the bigger picture, a
22 picture that includes the manner in which this
23 administration awards contracts and conducts business.
24 It is indeed hair raising.
25 First, $770,000 was paid to Greco for a
1 part-time position from 2002 to October 2004; second,
2 it appears, in fact, I believe it was actually verified
3 this evening, that no requests for proposals were ever
4 issued for the five contracts that netted nearly
5 three-quarters of a million dollars; third, HUD monies
6 are used to pay for these contracts.
7 Prior to 2002 and the entrance of the
8 Doherty Administration, RFPs were advertised for these
9 same contracts, further, in more than one newspaper to
10 unsure that at least three proposals were submitted.
11 Why? In the event of an audit by HUD,
12 OECD and the Connors Administration wished to abide by
13 all HUD regulations and demonstrate proper procedures
14 and accountability.
15 Fourth, in two years and nine months,
16 one attorney, Mr. Greco, earned $770,000. In ten years
17 from 1991 through 2001, three law firms earned together
18 a total of $1.25 million in the same capacity.
19 Fifth, and equally important, no
20 contract was ever submitted to City Council between
21 October 2004 and January 2006. Mr. Doherty
22 circumvented City Council by allowing Attorney Greco to
23 continue as OECD solicitor without a contract. Why?
24 The City Council of 2004 and 2005 would not have
25 approved another contract that was handed out on a
1 silver platter to a campaign contributor to the Doherty
2 committee at such outlandish costs.
3 As soon as the makeup of Council
4 changed in January 2006, the contract flew to our
6 Six, the specs on this request for
7 proposals, I submit, were specifically designed to fit
8 one and only one attorney, Mr. Greco, or so the legal
9 beagles thought. There was another attorney and law
10 firm who qualified, despite their attempts to do such.
11 Next, if these highly questionable
12 contracts were found to violate HUD regulations, CommD
13 funds very well would be withheld from Scranton,
14 thereby punishing the people and all the organizations
15 that serve our people, such as little leagues, football
16 leagues, senior citizens centers, homeless shelters,
17 neighborhood police and so much more.
18 Next, if we do a very quick calculation
19 at 1,000 hours worth of work, 800 of which will be
20 performed by the attorney, 200 by paralegals and their
21 staff, it appears that the difference between Mr. Greco
22 and the lowest responsible bidder is close to $18,000
24 Now, you may feel $18,000 is minimal
25 when looking at a long-term debt of over $220 million.
1 Why, it's certainly next to nothing. Many people would
2 argue that. Many people in the administration would
3 argue that. But the truth of the matter is, for many
4 Scrantonians, that is their annual salary, in fact,
5 that is above and beyond the annual salary of those who
6 work for the minimum wage. And for our senior
7 citizens, that is beyond many fixed incomes on which
8 they are forced to exist, and I do emphasize exist, not
10 So, that is a meaningful amount of
11 money to some of us. And if we then take a look at the
12 number of years over which that savings could be
13 amassed or could have been and we add all of that
14 together, well, certainly it becomes a much more
15 significant and impressive savings.
16 So, I just have to wonder, When is City
17 Council going to side with the people instead of siding
18 with exorbitant costs and improprieties involving the
20 Now, on a much brighter note, I wish to
21 highly commend the Scranton Police force for their
22 superlative oversight of the annual St. Patrick's Day
23 parade. I believe our forces were strategically
24 stationed throughout the parade route, as well as the
1 And from what I was able to observe,
2 the crowd control was superlative. I should also add
3 that our Scranton firefighters were quite breathtaking
4 in their dress blues, and how wonderful it was to see
5 children's eyes become the size of half dollars as they
6 watched fire engines drive down the street.
7 I also wish to recognize Chris Davis, a
8 Scranton policeman, for his outstanding work in
9 apprehending a suspect who robbed the Harbor House
10 about two weeks ago and who also tried to run Chris
11 down with his vehicle.
12 I think we very often, too often, take
13 for granted our police and our firefighters, and we
14 fail to thank them for the extra ordinary jobs they do
15 every day for us. So, tonight I thank you all.
16 I also had the distinct pleasure of
17 attending a recognition ceremony for the late Mike
18 Ferke, Scranton firefighter, at the union building last
19 night. Mike's wife, children, mother, siblings were
20 all present, as well as union leaders from every walk
21 of life. It was a privilege to see Mike Ferke
22 recognized as the first firefighter to join that plaque
23 of honor which memorializes union workers.
24 And I believe that Mike was watching
25 over his family last night and his union family, and he
1 was smiling.
2 Finally, I have a few citizens'
3 requests for the week. At the corner of North Rebecca
4 and Price Street, residents of the area request a
5 traffic study for the placement of a four-way stop
7 Albright Avenue before the bridge,
8 neighbors complain that these hills of dirt have become
9 a depository for various types of liter, including
10 broken glass, papers, abandon furniture, automotive
11 seats, et cetera.
12 Please clean the area, or if the city
13 is no longer responsible for the area, let us contact
14 the appropriate party and request the cleanup.
15 1511 South Irving Avenue, this request
16 was made more than six months ago, and that has been
17 forwarded. The problems there have been forwarded to
18 Mr. Fiorini.
19 The corner of Quincy Avenue and Myrtle
20 Street, which was discussed earlier tonight, that is
21 the precise location of the placement of a three-way
22 stop sign.
23 The Tripp Park Playground, residents of
24 Tripp Park report that the trees are being destroyed by
25 teenagers. Also teens are using the playground
1 equipment, despite posted signs which indicate that
2 users must be between the ages of six and 12.
3 Residents request that police patrol
4 the playground in order to prevent taxpayers'
5 investments for the neighborhood children from being
7 And the residents of East Mountain made
8 the following requests, A stop sign on Lilac Lane at
9 the intersection with Mountain Lake Road, and a stop
10 sign is needed on Mountain Lake Road instead of its
11 current location on Yesu Drive. Please remove the sign
12 from Yesu and place on Mountain Lake Road to improve
13 visibility and increase safety.
14 I am also compiling a paving list for
15 city streets. Scranton residents can E-mail their
16 suggestions for street paving to me at
17 www.janettomkoevans.com. And that's it.
18 MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Fanucci.
19 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I only have two
20 issues tonight. Obviously we have to discuss the Carl
21 Greco contract. This decision is pretty clear cut to
22 me, only for one reason.
23 The Home Rule Charter states the mayor
24 has right to chose counsel, his own counsel, as we
25 would want our own choice of counsel, as we did pick
1 our own choice for City Council, and you at home chose
2 your lawyers.
3 It's not something that someone else
4 can impose on you or decide for you who you need. It's
5 like me coming into your house and saying, You know
6 what, it's great that you like this person, but, you
7 know what, here's who you should use. It's not going
8 to happen.
9 Unfortunately, now, whether or not I
10 believe in his choice, it doesn't matter. It is his
11 choice. He is the Mayor, he was voted mayor, it is his
13 We did ask for an RFP, and by rights he
14 really didn't have to do it. It was a request by
15 Council, and he accommodated that, and that is all I
16 have on that. I can't -- I mean, to debate
17 personalities and classes and who has what and who
18 doesn't, I don't feel that as a Councilperson that is
19 my call.
20 My call is to say the taxpayers are
21 getting their money's worth. The bid was a good bid.
22 Are they getting their hourly rate that's fair? Yes,
23 they are. And as far as I'm concerned, that was
24 satisfied. That's all I have on Mr. Greco's contract.
25 Now, my community development comments
1 last week sparked a lot, and I'm sorry for that. I do
2 not feel, again, community development is a class
3 issue. My thoughts are, and maybe I am wrong, but this
4 is how I feel, that when we build buildings and we
5 build businesses, and we are here for businesses, that
6 it is a development for everyone.
7 People can get jobs, which is, I think,
8 great for the future. I don't know. Maybe that's
9 something that I'm just seeing, but I believe that
10 opportunity is everyone's. It's not just certain
11 classes, and it's not just certain people. Opportunity
12 is for everyone.
13 So, the more we build, yes, I believe
14 that that is a wonderful thing. Everyone will benefit
15 from more jobs, I would imagine.
16 More development equals more jobs.
17 Why? Because as I said last week, builders and
18 painters and contractors and computer guys, they all
19 get jobs for one little development.
20 So, maybe we're not seeing the way that
21 -- or maybe I'm not seeing it the way you're seeing it,
22 but I don't believe that's something that stops certain
24 I do apologize for last week if you
25 felt that that was something that was against you in a
1 way. I didn't mean that. It was more of my
2 frustration with the development.
3 I believe we need to invest in our own
4 city, in our people here. So, maybe we haven't done
5 that in the past and put a lot of money into economic
6 development, and that is very scary for the taxpayers,
7 but you need to invest. That is investing in you.
8 It's investing in all the people who live in this city,
9 because we are saying we believe in you, that you are
10 good enough and you deserve much more. And that's how
11 I feel about it. I don't feel that it's for certain
12 people. I feel it's for everyone. And I do believe in
13 investing in our taxpayers and saying, You know what,
14 you're good for everything. We're going to bring
15 everything here. That's what I meant by let's move on.
16 Let's not keep doing the same things, because the same
17 things create the same outcomes, and the same outcome
18 has not been what we want. We want different outcomes.
19 We want new. So, that was just my thoughts.
20 And I did spark a lot, but I did get a
21 wonderful positive feedback all during the week, also.
22 So, I mean, obviously both sides to every issue.
23 I think we are doing wonderful things
24 here. The communication has opened up in ways that
25 have really made us progress, and I do not want to stop
2 We're not going to agree with everyone,
3 as we know, and we are going disagree. There are a lot
4 of things that have come up that I, you know, I might
5 not see the way you see, but I think the exchange is
6 what's going to make us open up and move on, so that is
7 another thing that I meant by let's move on.
8 I'm going to talk a tiny bit on the --
9 the letter that we wanted to put out to the mayor and
10 why I didn't vote on that.
11 I have -- I've been attending all these
12 meetings for the pension, and I've been attending
13 everyone -- I've talked to everyone who put in bids for
14 the pension and talked to the pension board and met
15 with Terry Osborne.
16 The reason I did not vote on that
17 letter is because, once again, the pension board is an
18 advisory board, and they're wonderful, and I know and I
19 believe that they know their business.
20 But, once again, at the end of the day,
21 the people who are going to have to pay if that is not
22 the right contract or they don't -- the mayor and the
23 taxpayers are the one who's going to have to come up
24 with the money.
25 So, do I think it's wrong? No. Do I
1 think Mellon Bank is wrong? Absolutely not. They were
2 a wonderful bid. There was a lot of wonderful bids.
3 But, again, I'm not going to make that call.
4 I'm just not going to force someone's
5 hand. I think that I would like to see -- what I would
6 like to see is them work together, the administration,
7 and all of them sit down and say, Let's work this out
8 and let's figure out the best way for all of us.
9 So, that is my intention. I would like
10 to see everyone sit down and say, Let's work this out
11 and let's figure this out together, instead of playing
12 this back and forth, because this back and forth,
13 again, we get nowhere. So, that is my reasoning, and
14 that's all I have. So, thank you.
15 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Mr.
17 MR. MCTIERNAN: Thank you,
18 Mrs. Gatelli. I would just like to make mention of our
19 girls basketball team again who had a very successful
20 run through the Pennsylvania state basketball
21 tournament, and I don't want to make a motion, but just
22 for our consideration possibly to bring those ladies in
23 and their coaches for an accommodation on our behalf so
24 we can consider that later.
25 And I would like to also thank members
1 of the student representatives for City Council on
2 trying to put together meetings that we'll have at the
3 high schools where we can get student input as to their
4 concerns regarding the community.
5 And finally, I would like to thank
6 Kevin Jones and Matt Butler for spearheading the effort
7 in placing the four telescreens in the Scranton High
8 School cafe. Thank you very much. And that's all I
9 have, Mrs. Gatelli.
10 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Courtright.
11 MR. COURTRIGHT: Thank you. As I did
12 last week and the week before, and I'll probably do the
13 upcoming weeks, I've been getting E-mails about roads
14 that need to be paved and calls, and I've tried to get
15 out to whatever ones people call me on and take a look
16 at them myself personally, but, Kay, if we can add the
17 1100 and 1200 block of Watson Street for paving, and
18 the 800 and 900 block of Ferdinand Avenue, I believe
19 it's the 800 and 900 block. If Mr. Parker needs a
20 reference point, there's a new pizza place there,
21 Pepper's Pizza, that's in pretty rough shape.
22 This morning I witnessed John Piso and
23 Jerry Shalk, and I believe the other guy's name is
24 Gene, they were patching potholes in West Scranton, and
25 I was watching to see how they did. I figured they
1 just take the stuff out the back of the truck, throw it
2 in a hole and take off, but there's a rather large one
3 at the corner of Scranton Street and Main Avenue, and
4 they really took their time and they did an excellent
5 job, and I just want to thank them for the job they're
7 It was brought to my attention this
8 morning, and this time by Mr. Joe Meilo, first by our
9 own Chrissy Sledzinski, and again today by Joe Mielo,
10 on the corner, Kay, of Jackson and Main Avenue, the
11 catch basin there just keeps getting worse and worse.
12 They've got to try and do something
13 with it. So, I would imagine maybe we can go to both
14 Mr. Parker and the Sewer Authority to see who's
15 responsible for that.
16 Les Spindler, I believe he's left,
17 hasn't he? He brought up a couple weeks about a truck
18 parked on Mulberry Street. The police department had
19 gone out previously and checked on it, and they went
20 back again either yesterday, yesterday, I believe it
21 was, and they sent me a letter.
22 And although there's no sign there
23 saying no parking, they believe there might have been
24 one there at one time, and for whatever reason it was
25 removed. There was a Sunoco gas station there at the
1 time. And it's the traffic division's thought that if
2 that's Sunoco station opens up again and that truck is
3 parked there, it's going to create a hazard.
4 So, what they have done is they sent a
5 letter down to Mr. Parker asking to have that sign
6 replaced, and hopefully, Les, then that truck won't be
7 parked there any longer.
8 And Mrs. Gatelli brought up earlier, I
9 mentioned last week about Elm Street, hoping to get it
10 cleaned up, and evidently they did it. I haven't
11 gotten down there to see it, but I'm assuming it was
12 the DPW, and I greatly appreciate it, and the people
13 that called me on it, I'm sure they greatly appreciate
14 it. And that's all I have. Thank you.
15 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Well, the
16 only thing I have is Mr. Greco. I cannot attest to
17 what Mr. Greco has done before I got here. I did see
18 some of his bills that we had received from Roseann
19 Novembrino that weren't paid, you know, the list of
21 I recalled from when I worked in OECD,
22 that they did not seem as though they were out of line.
23 Although if that came down here for payment, I would
24 have voted against it, because he did not have a
25 contract at the time.
1 I cannot account for the Mayor having
2 done such a thing, paying him all that while over and
3 beyond the $100,000. I don't know how that was done
4 without Council's approval. I thought that Council
5 approved all the bills, so I don't know how that got
6 past Council with him paying those bills that were
7 beyond the $100,000.
8 When I was here and the $100,000 ran
9 out before the year was up, we had to put another
10 contract out for the lawyer. So, I don't truly
11 understand how he had gotten away with that.
12 It is true that Mr. Hughes worked on
13 the mall. In the year that he worked on the mall in
14 1991, he received $350,000, and rightfully so. I am
15 not saying that he did not deserve that money, he
16 certainly did. We worked night and day relocating 35
17 businesses on Lackawanna Avenue, and there was a lot of
18 litigation and eminent domain and settlements, et
19 cetera, et cetera.
20 The years beyond that from '95, I
21 think, to 2000, he made $675,000, during which time
22 there was not a lot of economic development projects.
23 I do agree that the Mayor has to work
24 with someone that he's comfortable with. It is his
25 prerogative to pick his attorneys. I am very, very
1 grateful that he took advice to have this put out to
2 bid, and I am the one that asked him to please start
3 putting everything out to bid, and he has so far
4 cooperated with that idea. Several weeks ago we
5 approved a contract for Ceco, and that also was put out
6 to bid.
7 So, I don't want to prejudge Mr. Greco.
8 I don't know the man. He did not contribute to my
9 campaign. Does he have a Mercedes? Maybe. I don't
10 know what the other lawyer drives. I drive a Lexus.
11 It's a 1997, but, you know, people can look at me and
12 say, Wow, look at her, she has a Lexus.
13 That doesn't mean that I don't care
14 about the taxpayers in the City of Scranton, because I
15 do. My mother-in-law lives on a fixed income. So, I
16 am sensitive to that.
17 But I do think that these -- both of
18 these prices were in the ballpark. I don't see them
19 being exorbitant for an attorney. For any of you that
20 ever called an attorney to work for you, they'll charge
21 you a lot more than this, I'll guarantee you.
22 So, I am going to go along with
23 Attorney Greco. I would recommend to the Mayor that
24 the $100,000 better last a year.
25 And I hope he's listening or Mr. Greco
1 is listening or whoever has to listen, because I
2 understand that it's for a year or $100,000, but I
3 expect the $100,000 to last the year, and then I don't
4 really have a problem with it.
5 And I'm sorry if some of the people
6 don't agree with me on this, and that you think I'm a
7 rubber stamp for the mayor, but you'll have to just see
8 the other work that I do in the community and on this
9 Council, and not just judge a person because they vote
10 for a certain person.
11 I have been very sensitive to the
12 unions, I go to the taxpayers meetings, and I will
13 always vote for the people.
14 This is not exorbitant in opinion. The
15 two lawyers were within $5 of each other. Mr. Greco
16 has been working with the mayor for four years. He's
17 familiar with the projects.
18 And it is nothing against Boyd Hughes.
19 He's a very dear friend of mine, and we worked very
20 closely for three years during the mall with
21 Attorney Minora.
22 So, it is -- I hope that Mr. Hughes
23 does not take it as a personal affront, because I
24 certainly don't mean it that way.
25 And he is working for the Lackawanna
1 County Redevelopment Authority presently, and I'm sure
2 he's doing a wonderful job there, and will continue in
3 that capacity. And I think that's about all I have to
4 say. Thank you very much.
5 MS. GARVEY: Fifth order. No business
6 at this time. Sixth order. 6-A, READING BY TITLE -
7 FILE OF COUNCIL NO. 13 - AN ORDINANCE - AUTHORIZING THE
8 VACATION OF A PORTION OF THE RIGHT OF WAY KNOWN AS
9 MURPHY COURT LOCATED BETWEEN DAVIS STREET AND CRANE
10 STREET, A RIGHT OF WAY CONSISTING OF AN AREA 12.5 FEET
11 WIDE AND 284 FEET LONG.
12 MS. GATELLI: You've heard reading by
13 title of Item 6-A, what is your pleasure?
14 MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item 6-A
15 pass reading by title.
16 MR. MCTIERNAN: Second.
17 MS. GATELLI: On the question?
18 MR. COURTRIGHT: On the question,
19 Mrs. Gatelli. I had planned on asking to table this,
20 because I thought we would have talked about this
21 earlier in caucus and we ran a little late, so we
22 didn't have a caucus. I do have concerns.
23 Some were answered by the attorney
24 earlier this evening. My concern, number one, was that
25 the residents are satisfied with what was going to go
1 in there, and he said he would make every effort to
2 speak to them, and I would make some effort to speak
3 myself to speak to the residents, and I will be curious
4 to see the recommendation come down from the planning
5 commission, and that's what I'll base my decision on
6 next week, so I'm willing to vote yes in favor for this
7 evening, but I would like to get some more information
8 before I make my final vote next week.
9 MS. EVANS: Like Mr. Courtright, I have
10 concerns with this legislation for the residents of
11 that area. I also have a concern that this was not
12 recommended by the Scranton Planning Commission, and I
13 frankly would prefer that it would be tabled for a week
14 until the planning commission hold its meeting and
15 until we can hear from the residents of Cedar Avenue
16 and the entire area as to their feelings now that they
17 know what the projects will actually become.
18 MR. COURTRIGHT: Maybe what we can do
19 is being we didn't table it this week, if we're not
20 satisfied by next week, we can table it next week, you
21 know, because we've already gone by. So, we missed our
22 opportunity, but I would be more than willing to make a
23 motion next week if we're not satisfied to table it
24 until we get the answers we need to get so that all
25 concerned are satisfied.
1 MR. MCTIERNAN: I agree with Mrs. Evans
2 and Mr. Courtright that we need some satisfactory
4 And it sounded as though we were
5 talking a lot about dollars and cents, and from what I
6 was gathering from the residents, it just seemed to be
7 a level of communication that was missing. And I may
8 have misread it, I don't think so, though.
9 Mrs. Pocius was pretty clear when she
10 spoke that she thought it was an interesting project,
11 but she just needed to know details.
12 And I couldn't help but feel a little
13 pressure as we were getting the repeated safety comment
14 and the dollar figure. I heard that the first time. I
15 heard the safety comment the first time, and I just
16 couldn't help but feel a little bit of bully coming
18 And I think all you really need to do
19 is talk to the residents if we're satisfied that
20 they've been communicated with. I only need to hear
21 that one time.
22 So, my only recommendation is a
23 conversation that happens with those folks, and I
24 encourage the residents of that area to attend next
25 week's meeting to let us know that they've been
1 satisfied with the communications.
2 So, I would be voting yes this week,
3 but I would be voting to table next week if we didn't
4 have that communication. And that's all, Mrs. Gatelli.
5 MS. GATELLI: Okay. I just want to
6 make sure -- I agree with the three people ahead of me,
7 ditto. We certainly have to know how the neighbors
8 feel. And I know that if you have successful
9 negotiations with them and open it up to make that area
10 commercial, then we're going to have more neighbors
11 coming here, because the other neighbors abutting that
12 rear property may not want it to be commercial.
13 So, I suggest that you possibly meet
14 with all the neighbors back there and let them know
15 what you're doing. It's always better, you know, to be
16 upfront with them.
17 Being a neighborhood president, I'll
18 tell you that, you know, you going to them and setting
19 up a little meeting will go a long way and explain
20 everything to them beforehand.
21 MR. MCTIERNAN: I just want to -- I
22 don't want to come off sounding negative to the
23 developers. I want to state specifically that I'm very
24 happy that you folks are interested in spending money
25 in the community and developing in the community, just
1 not what maybe the neighbors are feeling, maybe not
2 what you're doing, but what they're feeling, rough shot
4 So, I want to thank you for investing
5 and having the interest in our community. I do not
6 want to sound negative at all. Just encouraging you to
7 participate in some good communication with those
8 residents. Thank you.
9 MS. FANUCCI: I think my feeling is
10 that the fear is worse than the actual -- I mean, we
11 always are afraid, we take the worst. So, once they
12 know exactly what you're going to do, that'll take away
13 their fear, and maybe that is the issue.
14 So, I do agree with everyone, that
15 maybe the communication just needs to be open up, and
16 obviously it has, because we have less people here
17 tonight than we had had last week.
18 But if you do that between now and next
19 week, that will really, really change the way that this
20 project can go.
21 MS. GATELLI: All in favor.
22 MS. EVANS: Aye.
23 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Aye.
24 MR. MCTIERNAN: Aye.
25 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
1 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes
2 have it and so moved.
3 MS. GARVEY: 6-B - READING BY TILE -
4 FILE OF COUNCIL NO. 23, 2006 - AN ORDINANCE -
5 AUTHORIZING THE TRANSFER OF A PARCEL OF LAND ACQUIRED
6 BY THE CITY THROUGH THE FLOOD CONTROL PROJECT BY SEALED
7 BIDS TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER, PROPERTY LOCATED AT 608
8 RACE STREET, AND IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP NUMBER
10 MS. GATELLI: You've heard reading by
11 title, what is your pleasure?
12 MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item 6-B
13 pass reading by title.
14 MS. EVANS: Second.
15 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All
16 those in favor, signify by saying aye.
17 MS. EVANS: Aye.
18 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Aye.
19 MR. MCTIERNAN: Aye.
20 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
21 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes
22 have it and so moved.
23 MS. GARVEY: 7-A, FOR CONSIDERATION BY
24 THE COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS - FOR ADOPTION -
25 FILE OF COUNCIL NO. 22, 2006 - AN ORDINANCE -
1 AUTHORIZING AND APPROVING THE DESIGNATION OF PARKING
2 SPACES FOR CERTAIN CITY OF SCRANTON PERSONNEL IN AND
3 ALONG DIX COURT, THE PARKING AREA IN THE REAR OF THE
4 CITY OF SCRANTON MUNICIPAL BUILDING, AND A PARKING LOT
5 ALONG MULBERRY STREET ADJACENT TO SCRANTON FIRE
6 HEADQUARTERS, AND AUTHORIZING THE CITY OF SCRANTON
7 POLICE DEPARTMENT TO ENFORCE THE PARKING DESIGNATION AS
8 REFLECTED IN THE ATTACHED SCHEMATIC.
9 MS. GATELLI: What is the
10 recommendation of the chairperson on public works?
11 MS. EVANS: As chair for the committee
12 on public works, I recommend final passage of Item 7-A.
13 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Second.
14 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Just on
15 the question, I would like you to make a recommendation
16 that the mayor pave Dix Court. It's in terrible
18 MS. EVANS: I'll add that to my paving
19 list that I'm submitting to you then.
20 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Anyone
21 else? Roll call.
22 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.
23 MS. EVANS: Yes.
24 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.
25 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Yes.
1 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.
2 MR. MCTIERNAN: Yes.
3 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.
4 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yes.
5 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.
6 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare
7 7-A legally and lawfully adopted.
8 MS. GARVEY: 7-B, FOR CONSIDERATION BY
9 THE COMMITTEE ON COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT - FOR ADOPTION -
10 RESOLUTION NO. 38, 2006 - AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND
11 OTHER APPROPRIATE CITY OFFICIALS TO EXECUTE AN
12 APPLICATION FOR FUNDS UNDER THE COMMONWEALTH OF
13 PENNSYLVANIA REDEVELOPMENT ASSISTANCE CAPITAL PROJECT
14 PROGRAM IN THE AMOUNT OF $4,000.000 FOR THE RENOVATION
15 AND REHABILITATION OF THE FORMER NORTH SCRANTON JUNIOR
16 HIGH SCHOOL AND TO RECEIVE AND DEDICATE THE SAID FUNDS
17 TO THIS PROJECT IF A SUCCESSFUL APPLICANT.
18 MS. GATELLI: What is the
19 recommendation of the chairperson on committee
21 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: As chair for the
22 committee on community development, I recommend final
23 passage of Item 7-B.
24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.
25 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Roll
2 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.
3 MS. EVANS: Yes.
4 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.
5 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Yes.
6 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.
7 MR. MCTIERNAN: Yes.
8 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.
9 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yes.
10 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.
11 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare
12 Item 7-B legally and lawfully adopted.
13 MS. GARVEY: 7-C - FOR CONSIDERATION BY
14 THE COMMITTEE ON COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT - FOR ADOPTION -
15 RESOLUTION NO. 39, 2006 - AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND
16 OTHER APPROPRIATE CITY OFFICIALS FOR THE CITY OF
17 SCRANTON TO ENTER INTO A LOAN AGREEMENT AND MAKE A LOAN
18 FROM THE URBAN DEVELOPMENT ACTION GRANT REPAYMENT LOAN
19 PROGRAM, PROJECT NO. 400.14 IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED
20 $550,000.00 TO 500 LACKAWANNA DEVELOPMENT COMPANY TO
21 ASSIST AN ELIGIBLE PROJECT.
22 MS. GATELLI: What is the
23 recommendation of the chairperson on committee
25 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: As chairperson on
1 the committee for community development, I recommend
2 final passage of Item 7-C.
3 MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.
4 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Roll
6 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.
7 MS. EVANS: Yes.
8 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.
9 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Yes.
10 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.
11 MR. MCTIERNAN: Yes.
12 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.
13 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yes.
14 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.
15 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare
16 Item 7-C legally and lawfully adopted.
17 MS. GARVEY: 7-D, FOR CONSIDERATION BY
18 THE COMMITTEE ON RULES - FOR ADOPTION - RESOLUTION
19 NO. 40, 2006 - AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND OTHER
20 APPROPRIATE CITY OFFICIALS TO EXECUTE AND ENTER INTO A
21 CONTRACT FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES WITH THE LAW FIRM OF
22 CARL J. GRECO, P.C. FOR LEGAL SERVICES INCLUDING BUT
23 NOT LIMITED TO GENERAL COUNSEL TO THE OFFICE OF
24 ECONOMIC AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (OECD), URBAN
25 RENEWAL PROCESS AND PROCEDURE, EMINENT DOMAIN AND
1 RELATED LITIGATION, DISPOSITION OF SURPLUS URBAN
2 RENEWAL LANDS, TITLE SEARCHES AND DEED PREPARATION.
3 MS. GATELLI: As chairperson for the
4 committee on rules, I recommend final passage of 7-D.
5 MR. MCTIERNAN: Second.
6 MS. GATELLI: On the question?
7 MS. EVANS: Yes. First of all, I
8 believe it was indicated a bit earlier this evening
9 that the Mayor has the right to choose his own
10 attorneys, and to a certain extent indeed that is true,
11 however, this is not a position that can be categorized
12 as his attorney.
13 This is the solicitorship of the OECD.
14 OECD is funded by housing and urban development, which
15 in turn is funded by your taxes, federal taxes.
16 So, you see, this is not precisely the
17 mayor's attorney. In fact, the city solicitor is
18 Attorney Farrell assisted by a number of assistant city
19 solicitors, including Attorney Kelly, Attorney Butler,
20 Attorney Hickey, perhaps more.
21 Now, if you are to examine the, and
22 that would be, of course, Council that I am addressing,
23 if you are to examine the evaluation of the two
24 proposals, I find it questionable that of 11
25 categories, Mr. Greco received a perfect rating in ten
1 of eleven. It's a good thing it wasn't 11 of 11, or we
2 might think he's God.
3 Mr. Hughes, on the other hand, received
4 only four top ratings in 11 categories, and they vary
5 from that point downward to an absolute low of one in
6 one category.
7 And who wrote the specs? The same
8 individual who made the decision on the proposal, who
9 also happens to be the same individual who came before
10 Council tonight to justify that decision. I also
11 believe, as I stated before, that spec four amounts to
13 And in addition, I would add 11 to
14 that. I think we should not be so laissez-faire with
15 the people's money.
16 And as I said before, I wish Council
17 would do the right thing and do something for the
18 people of this city just once.
19 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else?
20 MS. EVANS: In fact, if I might add, we
21 have, which was discussed earlier, but the audience was
22 not privy to that, our Council solicitor, Attorney
23 Minora, is a former solicitor to OECD, and according to
24 the specs that were quite selectively created for this
25 proposal, this fine attorney and gentleman would not
1 have qualified for this particular proposal, according
2 to the fourth spec.
3 And this is a man who knows that
4 business quite well and who served in that precise
5 capacity for a number of years, yet he would have been
6 disoccluded from this process.
7 It's unconscionable. And if it isn't
8 transparent to everyone, I don't know what could be.
9 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Minora, do you think
10 that these specs are illegal?
11 MR. MINORA: Illegal? No, not illegal.
12 MS. GATELLI: Do you think that they're
13 done specifically for one person to get the bid?
14 MR. MINORA: No. I would say that they
15 were easier for someone who was already in the position
16 to qualify, but I think that would be the case no
17 matter what you chose.
18 A person who's already in that capacity
19 would obviously have more recent experience, be up to
20 date on the newest HUD regulations. Those are not
21 things that you'd read on a regular basis as a lawyer.
22 So, to the extent that someone was in
23 there, anybody in that position would have a more
24 favorable way of writing his RFP.
25 I think that just stands to reason, and
1 I don't think it would change no matter if it was Carl
2 Greco or, you know, Belspar, Ingersolrand, or our firm.
3 It wouldn't change.
4 They were reasonable. I thought they
5 were reasonable requests. I may have written them
6 differently, but I wouldn't say they're unreasonable.
7 MS. EVANS: When you applied for that
8 position, were you required to have three years'
9 experience in the last three years?
10 MR. MINORA: To be perfectly honest, I
11 don't remember, but, but, I was in the unique position
12 of having been city solicitor and supervised the prior
13 OECD counsel, so I had that same advantage when I
14 applied or for my RFP or our firm's RFP back in '94, so
15 it was to my advantage then, it's to Mr. Greco's
16 advantage now, but that's just the way it is.
17 If Mr. Farrell left the job as city
18 solicitor, he would have that same advantage.
19 MS. EVANS: But what is curious is that
20 the handling of CDBG and UDAG funds, which, of course,
21 is included in the specs, that can only be -- that type
22 of experience, rather, can only be achieved by
23 attorneys working for a municipality or a county
24 government. Boroughs, townships, et cetera, I believe,
25 don't get involved in that, as much as municipalities
1 and counties.
2 And the mere fact that this position
3 was advertised in only one newspaper, The Scranton
4 Times, it's no wonder that only two proposals came in,
5 because, of course, when you have specs that are
6 written in quite that way, it certainly eliminates the
8 And as I stated to you earlier, I
9 received several phone calls from attorneys throughout
10 the area who felt this was rigged, that they could
11 never have qualified for this position as it was
12 written, not all of it, but in those two issues.
13 MR. MINORA: Well, I can certainly
14 understand their frustration, but I don't think you'd
15 just have to work for a municipality or the City of
16 Scranton. As a matter of fact, I think --
17 MS. EVANS: Or the county.
18 MR. MINORA: Mr. Hailstone did a great
19 deal of bank work and had not, if I recall, now, we're
20 going back 15 or 16 years, but my recollection is that
21 he had done a great deal of bank work and had done a
22 lot of development work, real estate development work
23 and banking work which were very similar in terms of
24 financing, how they financed.
25 There was public financing involved
1 with that, so he brought those assets to his RFP, but
2 they were not from having worked in a municipality,
3 they were from having worked in a private sector.
4 It's more difficult, I don't disagree
5 with that, it's more specialized, but I think that job
6 is specialized no matter what. It's not something most
7 lawyers do on a day to day basis.
8 MS. EVANS: But you know what I'm
9 hearing you say? When Attorney Hailstone submitted his
10 proposal, when I submitted my proposal, so there was
11 quite obviously a history of advertising for proposals,
12 which came to a screeching halt in 2002.
13 MR. MINORA: We did proposals all the
15 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, we did.
16 MR. MINORA: More than one a year, more
17 than one a year often.
18 MS. NEALON FANUCCI; My only sealer on
19 this was to seal the whole proposal.
20 Yeah, I believe anybody -- we could
21 look at this and interpret it any way. All of the
22 questions -- let's say that everyone scored the same,
23 the both two applicants were exactly even, there was
24 one that wasn't, and it was not in the hands of the
25 people who made the proposal.
1 That was a question that was proposed
2 to the other attorneys, that rank themselves, and that
3 was the one, because it had nothing to do with anyone
4 else. They ranked themselves, and I don't know, were
5 you not here for this part, what it was is that they
6 send out things to the attorneys and you actually rank
7 other city attorneys.
8 MS. GATELLI: The AV, the ranking and
9 the ethics.
10 MR. MINORA: Yes. There is a
11 publication, and, you know, theoretically you're ranked
12 by your peers.
13 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Okay. So, this is
14 where, I mean, both of them had scored different
15 scores, both very ethical, and one separate from the
16 other, and the scores with their own attorneys. So,
17 that was something that was on the list that has
18 nothing to do with anyone that's in the city. So, I
19 mean, except for their attorneys, you know. And that
20 wasn't our call.
21 MS. GATELLI: And someone else
22 mentioned about him up at the library trying to take
23 Channel 61 off the air, and I'll tell you, if that ever
24 happens, this Council, I'm sure, there would be five
25 votes here to go to court or whatever we had to do to
1 make sure that that didn't happen.
2 I mean, that is the only way that
3 people find out about everything, their government, the
4 taxpayers, the county, even some nice things that
5 happen in the schools, some artists that do poetry on
6 there, et cetera. So, I frankly don't care what he
7 says to the library board, because that ain't going to
8 happen, not as long as I have a breathe in me.
9 And, you know, I don't want to penalize
10 him for that reason, but, Mrs. Krake, that won't
11 happen. And everyone up here, I'm sure, feels the same
12 way about Channel 61.
13 MS. EVANS: I feel the same way as
14 Mrs. Gatelli, however, I don't feel that a motion made
15 unanimously by City Council would prevent the shutdown
16 of Channel 61. We have no power over that. And in
17 addition --
18 MS. GATELLI: I think incorporated,
19 Channel 61.
20 MS. EVANS: We don't fund it.
21 MS. GATELLI: Well, we'll fund it with
22 block grant money.
23 MR. COURTRIGHT: UDAG.
24 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: UDAG.
25 MS. EVANS: Well, I don't think there's
1 going to be too much UDAG left, because it seems to
2 have --
3 MS. GATELLI: Well, we'll use block
4 grant. I'm sure it's eligible. It's a public
6 MS. EVANS: I would like to say that
7 that could happen, but I think we've seen so many times
8 that -- well, bottom line, it's the administration's
9 way or the highway.
10 So, if that's what they want to happen,
11 eventually that's what's going to happen. Just like if
12 they want Carl Greco, they'll have Carl Greco.
13 Whatever the people want or feel is irrelevant.
14 MS. GATELLI: I don't agree with that.
15 There are certain things that the mayor does have
16 prerogative over. There are certain things he can do,
17 certain things he can spend, certain people he can
18 hire. We don't have to agree with that, and I don't
19 agree with a lot of it, and I will be here for the
20 budget next year, I wasn't here for the budget this
21 year, but I certainly don't approve for those paw
22 raises for those people, et cetera, but to me the
23 bottom line is that the mayor does have certain
24 latitude. We have a strong mayor form of government,
25 and until that's changed, you know, he was elected and
1 he's allowed to do certain things.
2 And unless I want to change it, then
3 I'm going to run for mayor and then I can range it.
4 But, you know, Council is limited with a lot of the
5 things we can do. That's all I can say on that. I
6 mean, I'm going to --
7 MS. EVANS: I agree he has the right to
8 choose city solicitor, assistant city solicitors, et
9 cetera, but this is a vote that comes before Council
10 for its approval or denial, and three votes denying
11 this --
12 MS. GATELLI: And then what?
13 MS. EVANS: End it.
14 MS. GATELLI: And then what?
15 MS. EVANS: And then --
16 MS. GATELLI: And then what? We hire
17 Boyd Hughes?
18 MS. EVANS: Or you can put it out for
19 RFPs again if you'd like.
20 MS. GATELLI: And then what happens to
21 all the projects that are happening?
22 MS. EVANS: Oh, I don't think any of
23 them will stop. They're always full steam ahead, but
24 none of them seem to come out or rather reach fruition
25 in terms of the glorious picture that's been painted
1 about them, or they do not seem to actually appear
2 according to a timeline.
3 Case in point, I mentioned earlier this
4 evening that the Medallion Garage was scheduled for a
5 March 2006 opening, and promised to the Hilton Hotel as
6 part of those negotiations that occurred in 2005, and
7 you better drive by Adams venue and take a look at
8 where this project is right now.
9 MS. GATELLI: Sherry's asking a
10 question, because we weren't here, and we don't --
11 we're not familiar with that project.
12 MS. GATELLI: Well, any other on the
13 question? I'm going to give Mr. Greco a chance and I
14 hope he doesn't disappoint me, because he will be very
16 And I would like, once we vote on this,
17 Kay, I want you to put a letter on there to the Mayor
18 that I do not expect Mr. Greco to surpass $100,000
19 before the year is up, please. I know that doesn't
20 appease a lot of the people in the audience, but it
21 will make me happy.
22 MS. EVANS: I just wonder how many of
23 you -- how many of you would like a part-time position
24 that's going to pay a million dollars over five years,
25 part-time job, and over eight years, God knows what.
1 MS. GATELLI: But, Mrs. Evans, you're
2 failing to tell them that if it's not him, it's going
3 to be someone else making $100,000 for the year.
4 MS. EVANS: Or maybe they would
5 actually provide a lower bid, as did Hughes, Nichols
6 and O'Hara. Maybe it would be significantly lower if
7 it had ever been advertised in newspapers outside of
9 MS. GATELLI: I think if it were
10 advertised in newspapers outside of Scranton, as in New
11 York and Philadelphia, I think it would be double.
12 MS. EVANS: And there are many, many
13 cities throughout Pennsylvania and New York,
14 New Jersey that are not the size of New York and
15 Philadelphia where young attorneys or those with maybe
16 ten years experience would be tickled to come in and
17 tackle this task.
18 MS. GATELLI: I'm not going to keep
19 debating it. I worked in OECD. I know the expertise
20 of the work that's involved. It's not just a lawyer,
21 you know, it's not a new lawyer out of school, it's
22 someone that has to be very seasoned and seasoned in
23 municipalities and eminent domain, et cetera, et
25 MS. EVANS: And that is very true, but
1 there's one ingredient missing, seasoned in campaign
3 MS. GATELLI: Well, many times people
4 go against people for political reasons, so that could
5 be the case, too.
6 MS. EVANS: Well, the one thing I've
7 learned in my time on Council is, though, I'll admit I
8 never worked in OECD, but I've spent all these months
9 and these years working very hard for the people of
10 this city and staying in touch with them, personally,
11 visiting their homes, attending all of their functions,
12 answering their phone calls, answering their E-mails,
13 and I feel that I've got my finger on that pulse, and I
14 know the problems and I know the situations and I know
15 what many, many, many, of them want, and I have year
16 after year after year now, and I see my job as casting
17 their vote. My vote is their vote. My job is not just
18 to represent the Mayor and provide him with whatever he
19 would like.
20 MS. GATELLI: I could go on until
21 midnight with you, Mrs. Evans. I really --
22 MS. EVANS: Me, too.
23 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, but I resent you
24 saying things of that nature, that you're inferring
25 that I don't represent the people.
1 MS. EVANS: No. I'm only stating what
2 I do.
3 MS. GATELLI: I have fought for the
4 people in South Scranton for 25 years, and I have the
5 pulse of the people in South Scranton, and I get
6 E-mails every day that I'm doing a wonderful job, and I
7 would hope that people would have faith in me that I am
8 making this right decision.
9 I am not voting against Carl Greco
10 because I hate Chris Doherty.
11 MS. EVANS: And I'm not either.
12 MS. GATELLI: I was on a commercial for
13 Gary DiBileo, but the election is over. We need to
14 move forward, as Mrs. Fanucci said.
15 And I am not going to carry that water
16 for the next four years. I want to see the city move
17 forward. The two bids were for $105 an hour and $100
18 an hour. There wasn't a lot of difference in the bids,
19 and that is why I'm voting.
20 But, please, don't infer that I have
21 not worked for my community, because I'll fight you
22 tooth and nail on that one.
23 MS. EVANS: Well, I'm sorry that you're
24 interpreting an inference. I was speaking only of
25 myself and the fact that I serve all the people of the
1 City of Scranton, not just one area.
2 But, you know, beyond that, I'm also
3 very glad to hear you say that you don't hate the
4 Mayor, nor do I. I don't hate anyone, but I believe I
5 have to do the right thing. It's as simple as that.
6 I'm just doing the right thing.
7 MS. GATELLI: Who has approved
8 Mr. Greco's bills for the last four years? Who has
9 approved his bills?
10 MS. EVANS: The Council prior to -- the
11 Council prior to the seating of Mr. Courtright and
13 MS. GATELLI: You never voted on any of
14 his bills?
15 MR. EVANS: No.
16 MS. GATELLI: Good for you --
17 MS. EVANS: I wonder why that was.
18 MS. GATELLI: -- that you didn't,
19 because I didn't vote on his contract either when he
20 didn't have a contract. I didn't approve that either.
21 We sent it back as soon as we got here.
22 MS. EVANS: You weren't here.
23 MS. GATELLI: It came down when we got
25 MS. EVANS: Uh-huh. But what I'm
1 saying in the bulk of that time, we sat here.
2 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't want to
3 prolong this, this, in my opinion, has gone on way too
4 long, but we didn't have an opportunity to vote on it.
5 It's just the contract just went on without us having
6 any say. She's right in that respect. It never came
7 before us. I'm losing my voice. Sorry.
8 MS. GATELLI: Well, that's a shame,
9 because it should have come before you. Absolutely, it
10 should have come before City Council.
11 MS. EVANS: And what would, let's say
12 this were to happen again next year, what could we do
13 to make that contract come down? We can't even make
14 legislation come down for a pension board's selection
15 of a pension manager.
16 MS. GATELLI: Well, we would refuse to
17 pay the bill. If it comes down, we'll refuse to pay
18 the bill.
19 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mrs. Novembrino
20 refused to pay his bill, and then I assume we will be
21 going to court now.
22 MS. EVANS: Well, he can't go to court,
23 Mr. Courtright, because then he would be suing the
24 city, and that's outlawed, according to his proposal.
25 MS. GATELLI: So, he'll just have to
1 eat that. All right. Anyone else on the question?
2 The game is starting in three minutes.
3 MR. LYMAN: What if --
4 MS. GATELLI: You're not allowed to
5 talk from the audience. Thank you. Anyone else? On
6 Roll call.
7 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.
8 MS. EVANS: No.
9 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.
10 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Yes.
11 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.
12 MR. MCTIERNAN: Yes.
13 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.
14 MR. COURTRIGHT: No.
15 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.
16 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare
17 7-D legally and lawfully adopted. A motion to adjourn.
18 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.
19 MS. EVANS: Second.
21 (MEETING WAS ADJOURNED.)
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
3 I hereby certify that the proceedings and
4 evidence are contained fully and accurately in the
5 notes taken by me on the hearing of the above cause and
6 that this copy is a correct transcript of the same
7 to the best of my ability.
LISA M. GRAFF, RMR
11 Official Court Reporter