5 Held:

6 Thursday, February 9, 2006



9 Time:

10 6:30 p.m.



13 Location:

14 Council Chambers

15 Scranton City Hall

16 340 North Washington Avenue

17 Scranton, Pennsylvania






23 Lisa M. Graff, RMR

24 Court Reporter





























1 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Please stand

2 for the Pledge Of Allegiance. Please remain

3 standing for a moment of reflection for the

4 servicemen and women that are fighting for

5 our freedom. Roll call, please.


7 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

8 MS. EVANS: Here.

9 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.

10 MS. FANUCCI: Here.

11 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.


13 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


15 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

16 MS. GATELLI: Here. Dispense with the

17 reading of the minutes.

18 MS. GARVEY: Third order. There's no

19 business at this time. And clerk's notes, most of

20 which I went over in notes of interest in the back.

21 Most of your letters did go out that you had requested,

22 and I'm just waiting for responses on most of those.

23 Is there anything you are going to do before?

24 MS. GATELLI: Yes.

25 MS. GARVEY: Okay.


1 MS. GATELLI: I just have a few

2 announcements. I seem to be getting a lot of questions

3 about the tax that was just enacted for the $52, and

4 people were telling me that they were under the

5 impression that even if you make $1,000, you're going

6 to pay the $52, and I would just like to clarify that

7 this Council passed it that you have to make $12,000 or

8 more to be charged the tax. So, that's just to

9 clarify.

10 I think it was in the paper, Stacy,

11 someone said they saw something and they were very

12 confused, so it is for $12,000.

13 The next thing is this Sunday at Tink's

14 there's going to be a benefit for one of our wonderful

15 firemen, Mr. Mike Ferke, who passed away, I'm sure most

16 of you in the audience know him, and of course we all

17 know him up here, and it will be Sunday at Tink's from

18 three to eleven. There will be five bands and food and

19 beverages. The cost is $15 a person.

20 I got an e-mail today from

21 Keith Tucker, he is the director of the Mid-Town

22 Apartments, and he just wanted me to know that they are

23 a non-profit organization and they pay property tax to

24 the City of Scranton, and he wanted me to be aware of

25 that. They pay $17,608 to the City of Scranton in


1 property tax. So, I wanted to make sure people knew

2 that.

3 Also, condemned properties, I got

4 several e-mails about that, and, yes, they can be

5 purchased to be rehabbed, so if anyone is interested in

6 a property, possibly in their neighborhood that is

7 condemned, please contact Mr. Fiorini up in the

8 licensing department, and possibly you will be able to

9 buy it. I think there are certain circumstances that

10 you can't. If it's structurally unsound, it can't be

11 repaired, but if it's electrical and plumbing and

12 things like that, they certainly are amenable to

13 selling it to someone that would rehab the

14 property.

15 Mr. Sbaraglia had a question about

16 handicap bathrooms at Nay Aug, yes, there are three

17 handicapped bathrooms at Nay Aug.

18 Southern Union, I spoke to

19 Sara Hailstone and she did indeed we did not put any

20 city money into the Southern Union building. It is a

21 KOZ, however, and has that status, but the city did not

22 spend any money on Southern Union.

23 I spoke to Jim Wintermantle at the

24 Parking Authority for Mrs. Jones, and he said that if

25 she had any further problems with the parking, to


1 please go down and see him. I told him the whole story

2 , and he's aware of it.

3 Mr. Santolli also marked trees on the

4 2900 of Colliery Avenue today that are in need of some

5 trimming, it's near the Minooka playground and some

6 people were concerned about that, and I spoke to Tom

7 McLane.

8 As you know, there's going to be a

9 project done at Connell Park which is going to include

10 renovations to the swimming pool that is in dire need,

11 it hasn't been worked on for many, many years, and

12 there's going to be a dog park, which Mrs. Franus and I

13 have conversed about, some things she would like at the

14 dog park, which I will forward to Mr. McLane.

15 And I also had another request about

16 the skate park that is now in West Scranton, and has

17 been for many years, about the possibility of it coming

18 to Connell Park.

19 So, I spoke to Tom McLane today, and

20 he's going to put the skate park in the plans. We are

21 going to have the equipment evaluated, because it is

22 very heavily used over in West Side and we want to make

23 sure that it's adequate to bring over to South

24 Scranton, and we're going to see if we can't have it

25 there, but it is going to be put in the plan for


1 Connell Park.

2 Tonight I haven't looked thoroughly

3 through my mailbox, but there are two children so far,

4 besides Doug Miller, that are interested in serving on

5 this task force for the youth, sort of an honorary

6 councilman type position, and I know that we usually

7 wait until motions to make motions, but I know the

8 cameras are here, and if Council, I don't know if we

9 would have to suspend the rules or what to bring up a

10 motion at this time, but if we can, Attorney Minora, I

11 would like to make a motion that Attorney Minora draw

12 up the proper resolution to appoint Douglas Miller as a

13 Junior Councilman.

14 MR. MCTIERNAN: Second.

15 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All in

16 favor.

17 MS. EVANS: Aye.




21 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Any opposed? The

22 ayes have it and so moved. So, that resolution will be

23 drawn up. I will contact the other two students or I

24 will have, you know, Mrs. Garvey do it, and maybe we

25 can have them come next week also and they can all come


1 and the resolution can be for all of them.

2 I would like, I probably should have

3 said it, I would like Doug to be the chairman, so I

4 guess I'll make another motion that Doug would be the

5 chairman of that committee.


7 MS. GATELLI: On the question?

8 MS. EVANS: Yes. I do understand that

9 Doug has been attending council meetings for months,

10 and months, and we've all benefited from his

11 presentations and his suggestions, this in fact being

12 one of them, however, I would suggest that the Junior

13 Council would elect its own officers, just as City

14 Council does, that before, you know, we actually place

15 individuals in positions of powers, that all the

16 teenagers who seek appointment are appointed, and then

17 I think perhaps it should be on their shoulders to vote

18 and make those decisions, to form their own committees

19 and select their own chairs of each committee as a

20 model of what we here on City Council do.

21 So, it's just for the record, it's not

22 that I'm opposed to Doug's service --

23 MS. GATELLI: Does anyone have anything

24 else?

25 MS. EVANS: -- but I would just prefer


1 that the members take charge of that themselves.

2 MS. GATELLI: Does anyone else have

3 anything?

4 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't have a problem

5 with them doing it that way. That's fine by me.

6 MS. GATELLI: There's a motion.

7 MR. COURTRIGHT: Oh, I'm sorry.

8 MS. GATELLI: There's a motion that

9 Doug be the chairman.

10 MS. EVANS: Do you want to withdraw

11 your motion?

12 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Once a motion is

13 seconded, we can't --

14 MS. EVANS: You can withdraw the

15 motion.

16 MS. GATELLI: Does anybody else have

17 anything on the question? We have a motion and a

18 second, so that was on the question. Does anyone else

19 have anything on the question? All in favor.




23 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed?

24 MS. EVANS: No.

25 MS. GATELLI: The ayes have it and so


1 moved.

2 Okay. The only other thing I have is

3 most of you were here when we had the caucus before the

4 meeting, and we heard from Chief Elliott, and he gave

5 us a list of beat patrol officers.

6 We couldn't give you a copy of ours

7 because it had some confidential information on it,

8 such as phone numbers, but I did find my copy that

9 doesn't have any phone numbers, and I'm going to ask if

10 someone can't run over and make some copies for any of

11 you that are interested to see what neighborhoods your

12 beat patrols are in. So, if you want to, after the

13 meeting, come and get a copy of it, you're very welcome

14 to it.

15 Mr. Scopelliti said that presently

16 there are eight CommD officers, and that within

17 90 days, there will be ten officers, so every section

18 of the city will be covered by a beat patrol.

19 Mrs. Evans asked about police cars in

20 service, how many there were, so she's going to get

21 that answer from Mr. Elliott, and he said that there

22 was $120,000 budgeted for police cars, and Mrs. Evans

23 said that was not enough money, and I agree with her.

24 So, she is going to get some of this

25 information and hopefully she'll have it for us by the


1 next meeting.

2 MS. EVANS: As well as his

3 recommendation for the number of vehicles that should

4 be purchased in order to enable the officers to do

5 their jobs properly, because I understand they've

6 oftentimes of late had to double up in a car.

7 MR. COURTRIGHT: I think some of the

8 money, I don't want to speak on their behalf, some of

9 the money is earmarked for detective cars, and I've

10 been working with Dave Elliott, and he's trying to see

11 if we couldn't buy cars that are one or two years old,

12 because the detective cars don't take the beating that

13 the patrol cars take.

14 We've got a little bit of a problem

15 because they're only allowed to spend X amount of

16 dollars before it goes out to bid, so I'm going to work

17 with him and Mrs. Novembrino and then see if Council

18 agrees that we can find a way to buy these vehicles.

19 We might have to possibly suspend some of our rules, I

20 don't know if we're able to do that or not, so we have

21 to ask Mrs. Novembrino first. That would just be for

22 the detective cars. So, when we get that squared away,

23 I will bring it before everybody and see if everybody

24 is agreeable to that.

25 MS. GATELLI: Well, the next person we


1 have with caucus tonight was Mr. Scopelliti, and he

2 spoke about the tree house. It is going to be 28-by-16

3 covered, it's going to be 20 feet above the ground,

4 it's going to be -- started to be built in August.

5 It's a three-month project. It's going to be 40 to

6 50 feet away from the gorge and only 20 feet off the

7 ground.

8 Apparently some people thought it was

9 going to be 140 feet over the gorge, but that isn't

10 true, so we're glad he clarified that. Also, he's

11 going to find out from human resources what the added

12 insurance would be for such a structure.

13 He was also asked about sewage at the

14 zoo, and that has since been repaired. It was $4,000

15 to repair the sewer line. There's now a tank there

16 that's being pumped out to the sewer line, and he told

17 us the area was excavated twice and modified was put

18 there, a stone, I don't have my stones correct, but

19 anyway it was repaired and he said that also the Davis

20 Trail was repaired.

21 If you see wet spots on the trail,

22 there are numerous springs that feed up near Nay Aug

23 and fed Lake Lincoln at the time. So, if anyone is up

24 there and they do suspect any sewage or they smell

25 anything, please contact someone as soon as possible,


1 if it's one of us through the e-mail on the TV, if City

2 Hall is closed or the police department or somebody, so

3 that it can be rectified as soon as possible. We

4 certainly don't want any children or adults in any

5 danger with raw sewage, so please consider that.

6 MS. EVANS: Mrs. Gatelli, I think one

7 thing, though, that you failed to mention that this

8 measure that was taken is a temporary measure in the

9 park, and that Parks and Recreation will be

10 investigating a more permanent solution to the sewer

11 problem up there or the sewage problem, I should say.

12 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Does anyone else

13 have anything else up here on Council that you'd like

14 to say before we start? No? Okay. We will start

15 citizens participation.

16 MR. MINORA: Mrs. Gatelli, before you

17 do, I would like to make a couple of points clear that

18 seem to have gotten confused in the last couple of

19 weeks by my --

20 MS. GATELLI: Okay.

21 MR. MINORA: I really don't know how

22 this was so badly misinterpreted, but I received a

23 number of phone calls this week on Mrs. Evans' remarks

24 on legal opinions last week.

25 I know this was not her intention, but


1 the calls indicated that people felt that a legal

2 opinion was something you just paid for like a pair of

3 shoes, and I tried to explain to a number of these

4 people that that's not at all what it is, and I thought

5 that it might be wise to say something about that

6 tonight so that anyone else that is under the

7 misapprehension about what a legal opinion really is

8 will have it clear.

9 A legal opinion is not something you

10 just purchase or that a lawyer gives simply because he

11 has been hired to say what someone wants them to say.

12 A lawyer, and myself in particular, when faced with a

13 legal issue and asked to put an opinion on it, try and

14 give their best legal analysis and evaluation of the

15 case law statutes or ordinances that apply and try to

16 do a recommendation as best they can based on the issue

17 before them, it is not based on who is asking for it or

18 who is paying for it, because somewhere down the road

19 you're liable to have to defend it in court.

20 So, I'm sure most lawyers feel this

21 way, but I can tell you for certain that my opinions

22 are based on the best analysis I could possibly come up

23 with. Of course, I'm not perfect, but it's the best I

24 can do. I wanted to clear that up on legal opinions.

25 And the last thing, I don't know why


1 this is so badly misunderstood, the meeting before last

2 we adopted an amendment to the rules dealing with

3 citizens participation, I don't know why, but some

4 people seem to think that that adoption of that new

5 rule in some way limits them more than the previous

6 rules, and point of fact, the new rules expand the

7 citizens participation portion of our agenda, the

8 prior rule limited citizens participation to comments

9 on the agenda. The new rule expands that beyond the

10 agenda to matters of concern to City Council.

11 That is in conformity with Judge

12 Mazzoni, the Sunshine Act, and of course now our rules,

13 and other case law. The limits of decorum were always

14 in place, there's nothing new there.

15 People who are addressing Council have

16 no right to attack someone personally in government,

17 they simply don't. This is a place for doing

18 government business. They may go off to courthouse

19 square or Nay Aug Park and put up a soap box and say

20 whatever they want, that's a traditional forum for that

21 kind of speech, and it's protected in that type of a

22 forum, but in a designated forum where government

23 business is to be handled, the type of attack speech

24 that I'm referring to is not allowed.

25 So, just so we're clear, I think I said


1 it a couple of times, I thought I made it clear, but I

2 thought I ought to make it one more time as clear as I

3 possibly can. Thank you.

4 MS. EVANS: I just wanted to add

5 something to that, that, first of all, the points made

6 by Attorney Minora indeed are accurate with regard to

7 legal opinions, I might add, however, that the

8 solicitor does take direction from City Council and is

9 appointed by City Council to do just that, secondly, I

10 think with regard to Council rules, the rules had

11 failed to be corrected for many years, however, despite

12 the correction in the language within Council rules,

13 certainly citizens, at least since the year 2004, have

14 been able to express their problems, their suggestions

15 and their concerns at that podium, of course, limited

16 to city business, but that has been ongoing for a

17 number of years now, minus the language. So, the

18 language change was merely a format, but it should have

19 occurred long ago.

20 My third point, if you can refresh me

21 on your --

22 MR. MINORA: Those are the two I made.

23 MS. EVANS: Okay. And then I think, as

24 well, I certainly agree that personal attacks cannot be

25 permitted, however, I think it's important that we


1 define a personal attack.

2 If there is a question to a

3 Councilperson concerning a vote or an issue or an

4 action, that is certainly relevant, and that certainly

5 deserves a response. I do not consider that a personal

6 attack.

7 I believe if anyone were to mention

8 family members of an elected official or were to make

9 comments about an individual that were completely

10 irrelevant to their status as an elected official,

11 that's a personal attack, but I believe that what we do

12 up here and what we do with you, for you or to you is

13 absolutely your business and is not a personal attack.

14 MR. MINORA: Can I just say one other

15 thing? I'm sorry. You're correct, I do work for City

16 Council and I've been appointed by City Council, and I

17 appreciate it very much, but --

18 MS. EVANS: You're welcome.

19 MR. MINORA: Thank you again. But I

20 must say, if any one of you, and I don't mean any

21 disrespect whatsoever, expect a particular opinion out

22 of me because that's what you want, rather than the

23 law, you're all going to be sadly disappointed, you're

24 going to get what the law says. Okay?

25 MS. EVANS: Yes.


1 MR. MINORA: Okay.

2 MS. EVANS: And that is why I clarified

3 a legal opinion on a legal issue is certainly what

4 your, let's say, duties and responsibilities are in

5 your position to provide, but there are many other

6 instances where in fact a solicitor takes direction

7 from the Council, just as city solicitors take

8 direction from the mayor.

9 MR. MINORA: In terms of proceeding

10 with litigation or things of that nature you mean, not

11 in terms of what my legal opinion's going to be on a

12 particular issue.

13 MS. EVANS: Exactly.

14 MR. MINORA: I would agree. Okay.

15 MS. GATELLI: All right. Before we

16 start, now I'm going to put my two cents in, or three

17 cents, however long I'm going to take.

18 I don't have a problem with anybody

19 coming up to that podium and criticizing any vote we

20 should take or anything that you think that we are

21 doing that you don't think is right, I don't have a

22 problem with that at all, the only problem I have is

23 when you come up and you're nasty. It's just not

24 right.

25 I am somebody's mother and I am


1 somebody's grandmother, and so are these people, and I

2 don't think that you would talk to your mom like that,

3 I hope you wouldn't.

4 We're all here for the same reason, we

5 love the City of Scranton. I love it. I'm working

6 25 years here for free representing people in my

7 neighborhood. I'm not here to stop you from talking.

8 I want you to talk.

9 I want you to come here at 5:30 and

10 give us your opinions and your suggestions and ways

11 that you think we can make things better.

12 We've already addressed many of your

13 concerns about different things that you'd like done.

14 I won't refuse anybody, and I don't think anybody up

15 here will either. We are all here for the same reason.

16 We make mistakes. I make ten or twenty

17 a day, without a question, I make that many. That's

18 why we're all human, because we make mistakes, and

19 we're going to make them, too.

20 And I'd just ask that you respect us,

21 that's all we want. We will listen to you. You don't

22 have to be loud there or nasty or mean about it. Let's

23 work together and make our city the place we want it to

24 be .

25 We all pledge our cooperation to you,


1 and I sincerely mean that, and everyone up here feels

2 the same way, I'm sure. We all do. We're all here

3 because we love Scranton and we want to help.

4 So, without further ado,

5 Mr. Paul Arzonika. Did I say it correctly? Arzonika.

6 MR. CAWLEY: I'd like to distribute to

7 the City Council some papers. First of all, I am not

8 Mr. Paul Arzonika, he is ill this evening and he has

9 asked me to come on his behalf and present these

10 articles to you and speak on his behalf.

11 My name is Cawley, spelled C-A-W-L-E-Y,

12 first name is Edward, a resident of the City of

13 Scranton, retired Veteran, United States Navy, and

14 citizen of this great Commonwealth.

15 What has been prepared for you tonight

16 is some articles that need no clarification, that

17 rulings have been already made on in regards to the

18 freedom of speech and some of the controversy that has

19 existed here in the last six weeks.

20 It is with an avid nature, vivid memory

21 that I present this to you tonight on behalf of

22 Mr. Arzonika, and those papers before you is the

23 Supremacy Clause of the Constitution of the United

24 States, Article Six and Amendment One to that article

25 in regards to the freedom of speech.


1 Also you have in your possession the

2 U.S. Supreme Court ruling on Edwards versus South

3 Carolina on what the 14th Amendment pertains to and the

4 pages one through eleven, and if you will permit me, I

5 will read those articles.

6 The Supremacy Clause of the

7 Constitution of the United States, Article Six,

8 Constitution and laws of the United States, it shall be

9 made in pursuance thereof, and all treaties made for

10 which shall be made under the authority of the United

11 States shall be the supreme law of the land and the

12 judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything

13 in the Constitution or the laws of any state to the

14 contrary not withstanding.

15 Amendment One to this preamble,

16 Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment

17 of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof or

18 bridging the freedom of speech or of the press or the

19 right of the people to peacefully assemble and to

20 petition the government for a redress of grievances.

21 I now ask you to turn to Page 4, I'm

22 sorry, Page 3 of the U.S. Supreme Court, Edwards versus

23 South Carolina, second paragraph, first sentence, and

24 then in reference to the bottom line and continued on

25 Page 4.


1 This opinion was registered by

2 Mr. Justice Stewart in part to the case within. It has

3 long been established that these First Amendment

4 freedoms are protected by the 14th amendment from

5 invasion by the states.

6 The 14th amendment does not permit a

7 state to make criminal the peaceful expression of

8 unpopular views. A function of free speech under our

9 system of government is to invite dispute.

10 It may indeed best serve its high

11 purpose when it induces a condition of unrest, creates

12 the dissatisfaction with conditions as they are or even

13 stirs people to anger.

14 Speech is often provacative and

15 challenging. It may strike at prejudices and

16 preconceptions and have profound and settling effects

17 as it presses for acceptance of an idea.

18 That is why freedom of speech is

19 protected against censorship or punishment, unless

20 shown likely to produce a clear and present danger of a

21 serious substantial evil that rises far above public

22 inconvenience or unrest and there is no room under our

23 Constitution for a more restrictive view, for the

24 alternative will lead to the standardization of ideas

25 either by legislators, courts or assemblies or dominant


1 political or community groups.

2 As in the Terminello Case, the courts

3 of South Carolina have defined a criminal offense so as

4 to permit conviction of the petitioners in their

5 speech, stirred people to anger, invited public dispute

6 and brought about the condition of unrest. The

7 condition and conviction resting on any of those

8 grounds may not stand.

9 And as Chief Justice Hughes wrote in

10 Strongberg versus California case, the maintenance of

11 the opportunity for free political discussion to the

12 end of that government may be responsible to the will

13 of the people and that the changes may be obtained by

14 lawful means. An opportunity is central to the

15 security of the republic is a fundamental principle of

16 our Constitutional system.

17 A statuette with space and

18 authoritatively construed is so vague and indefinite as

19 to permit the punishment of the fair use of this

20 opportunity is repugnant to the guarantee of liberty

21 contained within the 14 amendment. For these reasons,

22 they have concluded that these criminal convictions

23 cannot stand.

24 It is my hope and my prayer that as

25 members of this City Council, this administration, this


1 government in the City of Scranton, that I salute you

2 in the memory of Stewart Rockwell and in the memory of

3 these fine gentlemen whose portraits surround this

4 chamber and I salute you in the citizenship of these

5 residents of Scranton that I know that as duly elected

6 officials, you will do what is necessary to create a

7 peaceful environment and to make laws that are moral

8 and just to the residents of this city and this great

9 Commonwealth, and I salute you Council members for the

10 fine work that you are doing and that you are about to

11 do.

12 MS. GATELLI: Andy Sbaraglia.

13 MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia, citizen

14 of Scranton. Fellow Scrantonians, I was told, well,

15 asked at the taxpayers meeting to ask about the status

16 of these KOZs and to check and see if the person that's

17 overseeing this project is doing his job.

18 A lot of our KOZs, well, take

19 Southern Union, that was a specific reason why that was

20 given a KOZ, and I don't know if, well, maybe not all

21 of you remember, but even another building was added

22 because they had an oversight, so we went out really

23 overboard for these people to give them these KOZs

24 because it looked real good on paper. Well,

25 unfortunately it's no longer good on paper.


1 Now, all we ask is since we're losing

2 all this tax money, that you will check and make sure

3 that all of these KOZs live up to what they were

4 supposed to do.

5 That's all we can ask for, because like

6 I say, it came from the state, you have nothing to do

7 with it, other than -- well, very few of you had

8 anything to do with it, I think most of that stuff was

9 done before. You did mention a KOZ three, we're trying

10 to find out what that was. We're still looking into

11 that.

12 Okay. Now, he made a good presentation

13 on the tree house. He also said there's a lot of them

14 already built, did he not, here, there and everywhere?

15 Why have we no plans?

16 Simply if these things are built, why

17 aren't the plans available? There's no reason we

18 shouldn't have had plans and looked at these plans.

19 You realize $300,000, I don't care

20 where it comes from, I have nothing against the

21 handicap, but we can also put a pavilion that got,

22 like, burnt down for that $300,000. And if any of you

23 remember our pavilion up at Nay Aug that got burnt and

24 put a balcony on it to overlook the gorge, too, and

25 have picnics inside of there.


1 This space is very limited. I don't

2 even know how structurally sound it is, because I had

3 no plans, I didn't look how they planned to dig into

4 the tree there.

5 If you notice, the supports were placed

6 into the tree itself, and I don't know if they're

7 bolted in there, so forth and so on. There's no way of

8 knowing.

9 Okay. Now, I was told a lot of people

10 figure with this $52 tax, they would never see a

11 rebate, and I was told to ask, as you know in January

12 we were told everyone has to pay this $52 tax, okay, we

13 go around all the way to the property into February,

14 say March, April is when they have to go in, okay, you

15 fill out your taxes in March, send them into the city,

16 okay, you're already taxed another $52 if you worked in

17 the city even before you get your $52 back, so hence

18 you're into the city for 104 bucks, unless you change

19 it, because that's what is going to happen.

20 There's no way in heck they can pay you

21 your $52 before you do your taxes, but they can assess

22 you of $52 before you pay your taxes, so hence you are

23 going to be out -- they're going to be borrowing money

24 from you mainly is what it looks like. The city is

25 going to get $52 tax free until they decide to send


1 your check back to you.

2 Now, you mentioned that you make a lot

3 of mistakes, true, a lot of people make mistakes. I

4 make a mistake, it doesn't bother you, but when you

5 make a mistake, it bothers me, it bothers my children

6 and my grandchildren, so you have got to look at

7 everything, like I said, 101 times with a fine tooth

8 comb so there is no error, that's the only way I can

9 look at it.

10 Because like I said before, I can make

11 100 -- you can make 100, it doesn't affect you one bit,

12 but when you're up there, it affects everybody, and it

13 even affects your grandchildren that you mentioned.

14 So, these things got to be looked at,

15 everything he does. I looked at the rendition of that

16 tree house, I thought Tarzan did a lot better with his,

17 but that's the way it goes, but I would like to see

18 before you do anything with that tree house, you look

19 at the plans, you look how they're going to affix it to

20 the tree, you look at how big that ramp is to get into

21 it, because I can sese -- I mean, you can put a

22 pavilion up there and make it just as handicapped as

23 this tree house, there's no difference to it, other

24 than the fact that you can go back to the inside and

25 have a picnic. I thank you. Erik Johnson. Erik


1 Johnson. These microphones, if you don't talk right

2 into them, you can't hear.

3 And before you start, Mr. Johnson, I

4 did get one complaint, Mr. Minora, that nobody can hear

5 you on TV because you don't speak into the microphone.

6 MR. MINORA: I will try and do better.

7 MS. GATELLI: It's true. You really

8 have to speak right into it for the people to hear you.

9 It's very difficult.

10 MS. EVANS: I wonder if the same person

11 contacted both of us, because they mentioned that, and

12 the fact that last week they couldn't hear Mr.

13 McTiernan and they're asking --

14 MS. GATELLI: Well, we certainly want

15 to hear him, because he hasn't talked since up until I

16 got here, right, Bob?

17 MR. MCTIERNAN: That's right.

18 MS. EVANS: Well, you need to turn that

19 on.

20 MS. GATELLI: Go ahead, Mr. Johnson.

21 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you. Good evening,

22 City Council and staff. Erik Johnson, resident and

23 taxpayer of North Scranton.

24 As I predicted, dozens of donors are

25 pledging financial support for the $300,000 tree house


1 project at Nay Aug Park, mentioning a few donors like

2 Lowe's and Home Depot and several trade unions.

3 Private donations will definitely cover

4 the whole cost, who would benefit and what this project

5 for the entertainment of the handicap.

6 We must realize that handicapped

7 people, especially children, need to be entertained

8 instead of just being people lookers and bird watchers

9 and watching everybody else have a good great time

10 except themselves.

11 Now that there is a substantial public

12 support for the handicap and the tree house and that it

13 appears that it will not be necessary to use the

14 $150,000 that had to be projected from the UDAG funds

15 and no taxpayers money to be used, there should no

16 longer be an issue against building the tree house for

17 our handicapped people.

18 Most people that come up to me about

19 this issue are for it than against it. Keep politics

20 out of it and let's have our tree house for the

21 handicapped.

22 Only increased funding by the state

23 government and laws that bring in health care costs

24 will reduce the need for local districts to increase

25 property taxes. The governor said he would sign a


1 senate property tax reduction bill that would hamstring

2 local school districts.

3 A new police unit is good to get crime

4 before it starts and before it happens. The Scranton

5 Police Department PACE Unit netted 1,311 arrests and

6 violations that began December 5 through Monday

7 February the 6th.

8 It certainly is going to be a very

9 expensive project to change all of Scranton facilities

10 from steam heat to natural gas, but in the short term,

11 where are we going to get the money for Scranton?

12 We cannot afford any new huge loans

13 from the city or from the county or from any of the

14 school districts, but in the long-term, it could save

15 the school district $10.5 million over 15 years.

16 Nothing has been done or said until now

17 in a serious way of a sincere plan to reduce property

18 taxes here in Scranton. Everything needs to be done

19 along party lines to try to see who can get the most

20 credit for it.

21 Judy Gatelli, people by the numbers are

22 coming forward in support of you of your pay up program

23 proposal. Judy, if I may add, since the Covenant

24 Presbyterian Church was or is giving payment of $1,000

25 annually, then there should be also a lot more wealthy


1 churches besides the Presbyterian Church giving

2 payments also annually.

3 The poor churches would not be able to

4 afford $1,000 annually in a voluntarily way. The

5 bottom line, Judy, you are really on the line to

6 non-profit pay up or help -- and also help Scranton

7 taxes. Thank you for letting me speak.

8 MS. GATELLI: Doug Miller.

9 MR. MILLER: Good evening, Council.

10 Doug Miller, Scranton. I am not only humbled, but

11 honored by Council's vote of confidence in me, and I

12 promise not to let you down for bestowing this honor on

13 me. Thank you.

14 Regarding the behavior here every week,

15 as a young adult in this city, I am very disappointed

16 in the behavior from some of our citizens. I really

17 don't understand why there has to be so much negativity

18 at these meetings.

19 All some people do here is bash Council

20 members and never have anything to do with city

21 business. I feel sorry for those who watch these

22 meetings, especially kids, who have to see our city get

23 embarrassed by some of our citizens.

24 Mr. Bolus first brought me here when I

25 told him about a streetlight issue I had, he told me to


1 come here and he took me, and it was a great learning

2 experience, and I continue to come here every week and

3 feel honored to be able to do so.

4 I am encouraging other kids to come

5 here, but what goes on here every week, I would be

6 embarrassed to expose kids to what goes on.

7 I would ask everyone if we can please

8 just get along and work together so we can actually

9 accomplish something. Thank you.

10 MS. GATELLI: Bob Bolus. You know, I'm

11 going to make an apology here, I'm talking about people

12 being nice, and someone said to me, you never say thank

13 you to the speakers, so, while it's on my mind, I'd

14 like to thank the speakers that have spoken already,

15 and I will try my best to thank everyone for speaking,

16 and I apologize that I have not done that.

17 I'm trying to, you know, tell you guys

18 to be nice, and I'm not being nice either, so thank you

19 very much to the speakers that have already spoken. Go

20 ahead, Mr. Bolus.

21 MR. BOLUS: Good evening, Council.

22 Bob Bolus, Scranton. Judy, I know you said you make 25

23 mistakes a day, remind me if I'm at the school not to

24 come to the school nurse.

25 MS. GATELLI: I make them at home with


1 my husband.

2 MR. BOLUS: Oh, okay. In that case, I

3 don't mind going to the nurse then. Thank you.

4 You know, this is Doug's night, as far

5 as I'm concerned, and I don't want to take anything

6 from him, but it's an honor to have seen Doug come as

7 far as he's come here and what's transpiring in this

8 city.

9 It's a first, three councilwomen, kids

10 coming here. I think the city should be applauded in

11 the direction we're now moving forward in, but it's a

12 tribute not only to Doug, but I think it's a major

13 tribute to Doug's parents who have raised such a fine

14 gentleman to be able to come here and do what he's

15 doing and the support that he's received from him.

16 And most parents out there, I would

17 hope, would take heed of what could happen in this city

18 and support your kids. They are kids, but they have to

19 be heard on their level, not on our level.

20 So, hopefully they will follow the lead

21 here and we will see much more happening in the city

22 and other areas.

23 You know, we've been listening about

24 the tree house and everything else, and I'm going to be

25 brief on it, it's $150,000 this mayor is spending, but


1 he spent millions in the past on no bids, on this, that

2 and the other, the Hilton, DPW, the University, Nay

3 Aug, forgiveness of taxes all over the place, and the

4 people re-elected him.

5 So, why are they crying over a tree

6 house? It's got a purpose. It's going to come,

7 whether they like it or not, no more than he's in a

8 position to give professional bids. He's going to give

9 them whether we like it or not. You put him here, get

10 used to it.

11 The issues that should be here are more

12 important issues, and it's not picking on

13 Councilpersons who make a mistake, and you're going to

14 make mistakes, each and every one of us come in here

15 make them, and those who don't make a mistake and come

16 in here and say they haven't are liars, or they haven't

17 come into reality.

18 But we raised the issues, we address

19 them and we hope they're not made again, but I don't

20 think people should come in and constantly keep

21 badgering and badgering. We need to deal with issues.

22 I'll keep raising issues that I want

23 answers for. If I don't get them this week, I'm going

24 to raise them next week until we do get an answer, and

25 that's what we should be doing here, we should be


1 worrying about how we increase the tax base and

2 increase the tax rate, we should be worried about how

3 we get this city out of a distressed status, bringing

4 ideas, concepts that will work.

5 You know, we sit here and we saw the

6 tree house, I would like to see the names, not only

7 those that were published in the paper, who they are,

8 but how much they actually donated or if it's a, dollar

9 $100 or $50, let's see really who's putting up the

10 money.

11 The freedom of speech issue, and I knew

12 this was going to come up, and I was hoping

13 Attorney Minora last week had the opportunity to

14 address it, and he didn't get that opportunity, and I

15 think he should have been allowed that opportunity to

16 tell us what his mind is.

17 You know, I believe in one thing, and

18 I've been through litigation, we're the ones who fought

19 the freedom of speech, and we won it, and we gave the

20 people the right to come here, and it could be

21 dissected in many, many ways.

22 And there's an old saying that I

23 learned from many lawyers in the past, one lawyer moves

24 in a town, he starves, the second lawyer moves into the

25 town, they're both driving new Mercedes or Cadillacs.


1 Now, why did they do that? Because they agreed to

2 disagree.

3 The law has opinions, and everybody has

4 an opinion on the law, that's why we have so many

5 lawyers and everybody debating the law.

6 We have it going on in government right

7 now over the spy issue, who is right, who is wrong, but

8 that's what the law is about, it's by interpretation.

9 Mr. Minora may interpret it one way,

10 someone else is going to interpret it the other, but he

11 shouldn't be faulted for his opinion. It's an opinion

12 that he's doing, I believe in his best interest of what

13 he's doing.

14 Now, I may look at his opinion and say,

15 Well, that's his opinion, but guess what, I researched

16 the law and I have my opinion, and of course that's how

17 we wound up before a judge who gave his opinion, and so

18 on and so forth, and that's why we have a Supreme Court

19 and we have wisdom on there none of us in this room

20 possess, and that's why we have laws and that's why we

21 get somewhere.

22 So, I think people have to start

23 recognizing what we're doing here, and not just

24 chastise it. If you see something, take it and

25 research it. Come back the next week and debate it.


1 That's what our government is about here. And we've

2 lost sight of that, a lot of people have.

3 The issue is debate. I want to debate

4 with government. I've debated Mr. McTiernan over

5 issues that I thought over signatures. It's not on him

6 personally, but it's an issue I debated because of the

7 position he was in, and I debated other people here.

8 Then I debated, I was arrested here.

9 I mean, so, we could go on and on and

10 on around here about who is right and who is wrong, but

11 it's what we believe in.

12 And coming here and speaking, we should

13 have a purpose, and my purpose is to see KOZs and

14 non-profits pay their fair share.

15 I don't want to hear let's get a token

16 dollar amount from them, let's either put it on gross

17 amounts that people earn, take the gross of a salary of

18 someone or what their property is accessed at, but pass

19 this free from the smallest guy to the biggest

20 guy.

21 You may see the University paying you

22 $6 of $7 million to be here in the city. Nothing

23 against the U, but if you can build a $30 million home

24 so to speak for the University, the average person

25 can't, they can't even pay their light bill or their


1 gas bills today.

2 So, Council, I'm asking you again, and

3 I've been doing this for three and a half, four years,

4 look at the legislation that I brought here, and I

5 supplied it to the past Council, on passing something,

6 whether you call it an impact fee or whatever, keeping

7 in mind we have a garbage fee in this city, it's really

8 illegal because the fee didn't pass on to KOZs or

9 non-profits. That should be repelled.

10 We pay taxes to have our garbage picked

11 up, but no one does that. So, if you could charge us a

12 garbage fee and not charge KOZs and non-profits,

13 shouldn't we then be allowed to take on the KOZs, the

14 non-profits with a fee that's fair for everyone here?

15 And I think if we do that, you are

16 going to increase the tax base, increase the tax rate,

17 you're going to get out of a distressed status.

18 If we charge for our police and fire

19 department a two-hour minimum going to an accident or

20 to a KOZ or a non-profit and what they cost, not a

21 token $50 or $100. Dunmore passed legislation on it.

22 We can do that here, but we can't keep coming and

23 talking about it.

24 To move forward, we need to do it, and

25 it starts right here, I believe, with this Council to


1 let people know, and you will get the support. You are

2 not going to get people chastising and coming and

3 complaining, because they'll feel positive that we're

4 going somewhere.

5 And with that, I would like to

6 recommend, Council, let's push the KOZ, the fees, and

7 let's bring Scranton into the 21st century profitably.

8 Thank you.

9 MS. GATELLI: Marie Shumaker. Oh, Stan

10 Narsavage.

11 MR. NARSAVAGE: Good evening, Council.

12 Stan Narsavage, resident of the City of Scranton.

13 First of all, let me preface by saying that I heard and

14 understood everything that Mr. Minora said, and I'm

15 still here to talk about freedom of speech.

16 Mrs. Gatelli, after the salute to the

17 flag you offer a reflection for the Veterans that are

18 fighting for this country, well, the men and women have

19 been fighting for this country for 230 years. And why

20 were they fighting, to protect our rights, which one of

21 those is freedom of speech, among others.

22 Now, in the 40s, I went in the Navy,

23 I'm a Veteran of World War II, and I went for the same

24 reason, to protect my and everyone else's rights, and I

25 believe, this is my opinion, that our rights are being


1 suppressed here, the freedom of speech, I believe they

2 are being circumvented.

3 Just a couple of weeks ago, to give you

4 an example, a gentleman called the President of the

5 United States the biggest terrorist in the world. Now,

6 I wouldn't do that, and I wouldn't make remarks about

7 anybody sitting on Council like that, but he had the

8 right to do that.

9 The President is daily called a liar on

10 newscasts, they call him everything under the sun.

11 That's freedom of speech, I guess.

12 Now, if I want to ask a question and if

13 somebody decides that I'm going to be gaveled down, we

14 are going to have a problem, because that's my freedom

15 of speech. And like I said before, for 230 years, this

16 country has been fighting for freedoms.

17 This is called a pocket constitution,

18 and I would suggest everyone that's interest in the

19 Constitution to get a copy and carry it with you and

20 bring it to Council meetings if this is the road we're

21 going to go down so that we can be prepared to speak to

22 these things.

23 And legal opinions, I'm not too much up

24 on legal opinions naturally. I believe that when

25 Mr. Minora gives an opinion, that's all that it is,


1 it's an opinion.

2 When it leaves his lips, it falls flat,

3 because now I have my opinion, and I can give my

4 opinion just the same way.

5 So, when he gives an opinion for you to

6 gavel someone down, that doesn't register with me. If

7 I'm not doing anything wrong at this podium and

8 somebody comes up with that idea to gavel me down,

9 that's a problem. Thank you very much.

10 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

11 Marie Shumaker, did she come back or -- no? Okay. The

12 next speaker is Dick Laske.

13 MR. LASKE: You better hurry back, I

14 have something nice to say to you. No, go ahead. Go

15 make the bladder gladder. Don't mock me, I'm only home

16 for a little while and then I have to go back to that

17 building up in the Summit, you know, the red brick one.

18 Let me just tell you a little story, I

19 was up there one day and I had cleaned the barn, they

20 come down and one of the inmates said to the man on the

21 tractor, Where are you going with that load of manure?

22 He says, We're going to put it on our strawberries. He

23 said, Good for you, and they thought we were nuts.

24 That went over your head, Bill. I'll explain it some

25 other time.


1 Okay. My name is Dick Laske, I live in

2 North Scranton. I love your flower on your suit coat

3 there, it looks very nice. Judy, congratulations for

4 going after these people. It should have been done a

5 long time ago. You know, when you dance to the music,

6 you have to pay the fiddler, it's as simple as that.

7 I mean, we all pay taxes. I was down

8 the other day, $1,100, I had to cash two relief checks,

9 but I made it, you know what I mean? But it's all

10 right, my taxes are paid.

11 Now, the important thing I'm here for

12 tonight is the primary reason, I want to know if I can

13 get yellow, green and red painted outside for our

14 Lithuanian Flag Raising Day. That's just a joke.

15 Don't get nervous.

16 MS. GATELLI: I'm writing it down.

17 MR. LASKE: Don't get nervous. Okay.

18 Now, that lady that comes here from South Side or

19 whatever about cleaning so on and so forth, well, I'm

20 well aware of a situation in North Scranton that was

21 very politically motivated. I invite anyone to come

22 with me up to Hollow Avenue and look and see the work

23 that was done on private property.

24 Now, what really annoys me about that

25 work that was done on private property, you mentioned


1 about Mr. Santolli painting the trees that have to be

2 trimmed and taken down, Mr. Santolli also painted trees

3 at Weston Park, and that paint has washed off because

4 we have been trying literally for years.

5 Now, I'm not saying to take that boom

6 truck in there now and trim the trees in inclimate

7 weather and snow on the grounded and so on and so

8 forth, you might do more harm than good, but I would

9 appreciate the summertime if they would go up and take

10 those trees down.

11 We have a lot of children playing at

12 Weston Park, and this is really and truly a hazard. I

13 mean, we spent a lot of money, we put a lot of effort,

14 we did a lot of begging and borrowing to get

15 Weston Park where it is today, and I'd really

16 appreciate it.

17 Okay. Now, like I said, the reason for

18 this thing on Hollow Avenue, it's as plain as the nose

19 on our faces, it was politically motivated, and anybody

20 that lives in North Scranton knows that.

21 Okay. Ms. Fanucci or Ms. or whatever

22 the term is, I won't come here and call you a liar,

23 because I don't even know you, and even if I did know

24 you, and I'd be deathly afraid to call Judy one,

25 because she might slap me.


1 No, but seriously, I'd like everybody

2 to come down to the flag raising, it's February the 25,

3 it's at ten o'clock, and it's right downstairs. We're

4 -- we will have coffee and doughnuts. And we were

5 going to make some (UNTRANSCRIBABLE), but they sort of

6 -- they frown on drinking whiskey in here.

7 Okay. Have a good time. And I won't

8 be back for a while. I'm going to go down to Florida

9 and lay on the beach like an old walrus, you know what

10 I mean? So, have a good night. I'll tell my son to

11 call you, Amil.

12 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Have a good

13 time in Florida.

14 MR. LASKE: Oh, I intend to.

15 MS. GATELLI: Marie Shumaker, is she --

16 all right. Bill Jackowitz.

17 MR. JACKOWITZ: Bill Jackowitz, city

18 resident, retired Air Force. First of all,

19 Mr. Courtright, you should have took my bet last week,

20 you could have had some cash in your pocket, because

21 Mr. Elliott and Mr. Scopelliti showed up tonight.

22 Okay. Also I have some definitions

23 that I would like to pass out to City Council and to

24 the attorney.

25 I have some extras, if anybody wants


1 any. I already passed out a few to some people in the

2 audience already.

3 And, also, I'd like to echo Mr. Bolus

4 on his comments, I agree with everything that he said

5 100 percent.

6 In that legal opinion, disparage, I

7 guess that was the word that was used, that you cannot

8 make disparaging or disparage comments, well, here's

9 the definition of disparage, To lower in rank or

10 reputation, to degrade, to depreciate by indirect means

11 as envious comparison, speak slightly about.

12 Now the definition of envious, tending

13 to cause discontent, animosity or even the individual's

14 task of arbitration, envious of an unpleasant or

15 objectable nature, obnoxious, of a kind to cause harm

16 or resentment and sliding characterized by disregard or

17 disrespect, disparaging.

18 I don't see how any of that has been

19 being done with what we've been saying here. Basically

20 what we're doing is challenging people's votes or

21 coming forward and asking for our rights as a citizen.

22 I agree, no one should call anybody a

23 liar, but it happens every day. It happens to the

24 President of the United States, to Senators to

25 Councilman. That's part of being an elected official,


1 that's part of being a politician. Like I said, I

2 personally don't like it, because it's going to happen.

3 And I said these are the definitions, and hopefully

4 these definitions will help, because, Mrs. Gatelli, you

5 kept asking for legal opinions from Mr. Minora, again,

6 his opinion is just that, an opinion. His license

7 reads, License to practice law, not to write law.

8 Okay. I've been told that, on a

9 different subject, on bars, you know, like, when a bar,

10 every year or two years bars have to pay licensing

11 fees, along with restaurants, and occasionally a bar

12 gets busted for something and they have to pay a fine

13 or a fee, now, I've been told that they pay those

14 licensing fees and their fines to Harrisburg, and in

15 Harrisburg sends all that money back to the community

16 or the township or the borough which that bar or

17 restaurant was located at.

18 Now, if that's the case and our money,

19 and I was given this by a person who did this that just

20 retired four years ago out of the Harrisburg area, that

21 was his job, unless the law has changed and the money

22 is coming back to Scranton, I'd like to know who it

23 goes to, who is responsible for it and what account and

24 what use that money is used for.

25 If this is erroneous information, then


1 fine. Let us know that it is erroneous information.

2 But if this does happen, I'd like to know where that

3 money goes to, and I hope we could get an answer in a

4 week or two on that.

5 Another thing, I can't believe that the

6 city tax office and the city assessor's office does not

7 know the number or the names of all non-profits, plus

8 the KOZ tax exempt properties.

9 I find that very hard to believe,

10 because if they don't know, who does know? Does anyone

11 on Council know? Don't you think somebody should know?

12 MS. EVANS: Yes. I made that request,

13 and I'm waiting for the list.

14 MS. GATELLI: I am, too. I already

15 requested it, too.

16 MR. JACKOWITZ: Okay. Well, I'm glad

17 to hear that, because I was shocked when I read that in

18 the paper today. We need to find out who these people

19 are, where they're located at, who's in charge and sit

20 down and talk with them. Again, I wanted to speak on

21 some more, but five minutes just isn't enough.

22 But I agree with everything that Mr.

23 Bolus says, and I believe that the KOZs and tax exempt

24 properties, I believe that they should be helping to

25 rebuild the parks in this city, build the pavilions,


1 build the things. We can put plaques up with their

2 names on it, we can recognize that they did it and we

3 can save the taxpayers a lot of money and we can use

4 that money to pave the roads and parking lots at the

5 parks. Thank you.

6 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Mr. Spindler.

7 MR. SPINDLER: Good evening, Council,

8 Les Spindler. I just want to make a quick comment on

9 what the first speaker had to say here, in case anybody

10 didn't understand what he said, because I was aware of

11 what he was going to say, because the person he got

12 that Supreme Court decision from called me the other

13 night and read me the whole thing, what he said in

14 short was we can get up here and say almost anything

15 we'd like within reason.

16 We can't call anybody names or say

17 vulgarities or whatever, but we can say just about

18 anything we want and not even on city business.

19 Okay. Last week, Mrs. Gatelli, you

20 said everybody makes mistakes, that's true, but a lie

21 is not a mistake. Do you think anyone up there has a

22 right to lie to us? Yes or no.

23 MS. GATELLI: No, not knowingly, no.

24 MR. SPINDLER: Okay. Thank you. Now I

25 have a question for Attorney Minora. So, we could be


1 gaveled down for making disparaging remarks, is asking

2 someone to resign because they lied a disparaging

3 remark?

4 MR. MINORA: I would say if it was

5 asked 20 or 25 times and it's been answered by the

6 person you're asking, I'd call that disruptive after a

7 time, yeah, I would.

8 MR. SPINDLER: Well, again, that's our

9 freedom of speech, so I guess we can keep doing it.

10 MR. MINORA: Your request has been

11 answered, it has been answered 25 times. After a

12 period of time, it's obviously meant to be disruptive,

13 and for no other reason, simply because a question has

14 been answered.

15 MR. SPINDLER: Okay. There were a lot

16 of questions answered. I'll speak about something

17 else.

18 No one had more abuse up on that

19 Council than past President Gary DiBileo. Before the

20 election, every week he had disparaging remarks made

21 about him. He sat up there and took it like a man. He

22 didn't go crying to the solicitor.

23 So, what I have to say, like the old

24 saying goes, Mrs. Fanucci, if you can't take the heat,

25 get out of the kitchen.


1 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Mr. Spindler, I

2 just want you to know, I can take the heat, I never

3 said I couldn't take the heat, and I want you to

4 understand, this is what we're trying to avoid.

5 We have done great work here tonight,

6 we've heard great speakers, we've have good ideas.

7 This is what we're trying to avoid, that's all.

8 It's not to inhibit your freedom of

9 speech, it's trying to work together as a community,

10 that's what we want. You cannot build a city up by

11 tearing everyone else down. It doesn't work, it just

12 doesn't work.

13 MR. SPINDLER: Either does lying to us.

14 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I did not lie to

15 you.

16 MR. SPINDLER: Yes, you did.

17 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: That's your

18 opinion, and I respect your opinion, but you're going

19 to respect the fact that --

20 MR. SPINDLER: It's on tape and it's in

21 the minutes. Janet Evans asked you if --

22 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: I said it was your

23 opinion, and that is fine, but I'm not resigning. Can

24 we let it go and move on to city business? That's all

25 I'm asking.


1 MR. SPINDLER: I can speak about

2 anything I want. I can speak about anything I want.

3 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: Well, please, but

4 just try to move on, that's all. Thank you.

5 MR. SPINDLER: Saying Carl Greco didn't

6 contribute to your campaign was a lie, that's all I'll

7 say on that. It's in the minutes, it's on the

8 videotape of that meeting. I don't have to prove

9 anything.

10 Southern Union building, does anybody

11 have a completion date on that? Is it ever going to be

12 finished? I think the Empire State Building took less

13 time to be built.

14 I mean, since 2003 a crane has been

15 there blocking the street holding up traffic. I drive

16 that way every day. And speaking of that crane, I know

17 that needs a permit to sit there and block the street,

18 is it an ongoing permit or do they have to keep

19 renewing it? Can we find that out?

20 MS. EVANS: Mr. Spindler, I did ask for

21 all of that information last week, and letters have

22 gone out to various individuals, including Mr. Collina

23 from the architectural firm who has worked on the

24 building, and as soon as I get those answers, I will

25 let you know.


1 I do prefer, I must say, though, that

2 responses be provided in writing, because what is

3 placed in black and white stands, and oftentimes simply

4 a verbal conversation, a verbal request can be

5 forgotten or too easily neglected, so I like to commit

6 things to writing that I'm looking for, and I like to

7 receive written responses so that I can hold

8 individuals to their answers, but I do agree with what

9 you're saying, and I did pose all of those questions.

10 MR. SPINDLER: Okay. Thank you.

11 Something else about -- someone mentioned last week

12 about Southern Union living up to the KOZ criteria, are

13 they, because I know there has to be a certain amount

14 of people in that building. If there's no one in that

15 building, I think the KOZ status should be dropped on

16 that building.

17 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mrs. Gatelli, can I

18 speak?

19 MS. GATELLI: Yes. You can go ahead.

20 MR. COURTRIGHT: You know what, if this

21 Council agrees, maybe we can get whoever is the person

22 that oversees these KOZs locally in here and explain to

23 us what it is could be done and can't be done, because

24 I don't think any of us up here are that well versed in

25 it.


1 And if this Council agrees, then maybe

2 we can ask Kay to send a letter out. I don't know if I

3 need to make a motion to that effect. Is everybody in

4 agreement with that, that Kay, maybe we can contact

5 whoever it is that oversees the KOZs in Scranton and we

6 can ask them to come in and let them explain to us.

7 If what is being done is correct and if

8 it's not, then what we can do to correct it. Because

9 there's a lot of questions every week about KOZs, and

10 maybe we can find them.

11 MS. EVANS: We do have actually a list

12 of all of the coordinators that was just provided this

13 week by Ms. Hailstone very promptly, because I had

14 asked for that information last week, as well, so I'm

15 sure Kay could send that letter very soon and arrange

16 that meeting, but I don't know that it would be within

17 our power to force the KOZ or KOEZ recipient to abide

18 by the requirements that are included in that

19 agreement.

20 It may well be the state, or perhaps it

21 may be the state in conjunction with the three local

22 governing bodies, but since it is a state program and

23 provided by the state, I'm sure that they play a very

24 instrumental role in all of this, Mr. Spindler.

25 MR. SPINDLER: Yeah, it is the state.


1 Something should be done.

2 MS. EVANS: Oh, yes.

3 MR. SPINDLER: One last thing, since it

4 looks like the tree house might be all privately

5 funded, can we find out what is going to happen with

6 the $150,000 UDAG funds? Maybe we can put that to some

7 good use.

8 MR. COURTRIGHT: We can give it to

9 Judy, I think.

10 MS. GATELLI: Connell Park for the

11 skate park. No, I'm just kidding. Don't take that

12 seriously, please.

13 MR. SPINDLER: Thank you.

14 MS. GARVEY: Mrs. President, can I just

15 say it's -- it's Kay over here.

16 MS. GATELLI: It's hard up here. You

17 don't know where the voices are coming from.

18 MS. GARVEY: Janet, I just wanted to

19 let you know those KOZ coordinator lists that I put in

20 everybody's boxes, I was given that by the city

21 planner, Don King, because I have contacted both, and

22 that's who sent those down to me so far.

23 MS. EVANS: Well, I thank him, and I

24 stand corrected, it's not Ms. Hailstone I have to

25 thank, but Mr. King. Thank you.


1 MS. GATELLI: Did I say thank you, Mr.

2 Spindler? Thank you. Lee Morgan.

3 MR. MORGAN: Hello, Council, Lee

4 Morgan. You know, we really had a good conversation

5 today, and at least we have the parameters of free

6 speech now and we all understand that Mr. Minora's

7 opinions are only opinions, but the thing I have here

8 is, I'd like to know what Council knows about Channel

9 61 going to Lackawanna College. Can you tell me?

10 There's supposedly a rumor that -- I

11 know that 61 was going to separate from Scranton

12 Tomorrow and the Scranton Public Library, and now the

13 rumor is that it's going to end up at Lackawanna

14 College.

15 And, you know, I find that to be a very

16 extremely troubling thing, because 61 should never go

17 to any college, it should always be the property of the

18 residents of this area.

19 It should stand alone, but I think that

20 funding should come for it from the city and from the

21 county so that it remains autonomous.

22 I think that it's a very valuable tool

23 and an asset to the community, and there have been

24 statements made by Mr. Doherty allegedly and Mr. Mellow

25 that that's the only thing that they didn't control.


1 And I just find it troubling that they

2 may be trying to shut it down, and that would

3 ultimately stifle free speech, and that cannot happen.

4 So, I ask --

5 MS. GATELLI: That will not happen.

6 MR. MORGAN: Okay. Well, I'm asking

7 this Council to make sure it doesn't happen.

8 MS. GATELLI: It won't happen.

9 MR. MORGAN: Okay. Now, the other

10 thing I have is, I really like the idea that's starting

11 to take place here about looking for revenue from

12 non-profits, but I would like to say the churches

13 should at no time be taxed.

14 I think it would be a good idea to look

15 at -- I think it's called Cops in Schools Program,

16 where they put officers in the schools, and I think

17 that the Scranton School District should cover all

18 costs of those officers in those schools, and with

19 those savings, then maybe we can put a few more

20 officers on the job in Scranton on the street, because

21 I think the school district can adsorb that cost, and

22 that's where they're always going to serve there.

23 As far as the University of Scranton, I

24 think all their parking slots should be taxed, they

25 should pay the $15 fee; in other words, they skirt a


1 lot of taxation.

2 I think we need to seriously consider

3 telling the University of Scranton within a five-year

4 tax frame all the property they own without -- outside

5 of a certain geographical area will be taxed.

6 I think what we should try to do, and I

7 think that Mr. Spano brought this up a long time ago,

8 we need to draw boundaries on where the University

9 should be, and we should have them built up.

10 Their dormitories that they built on

11 the corner of Mulberry and Jefferson, beautiful idea,

12 they need to go up instead of out.

13 Their sprawl is destroying

14 neighborhoods, and I think that if we're going to

15 restore this city, we have to restore the

16 neighborhoods.

17 You know, I think we're off to a good

18 start, but I think there's a lot to be done, and I

19 would just say in closing that I think we need to -- I

20 think we need Council President Gatelli to come forward

21 and say that we're going to run the meetings and

22 freedom of speech will be protected and we can move and

23 put that issue behind us.

24 We don't need Mr. Minora's opinions on

25 freedom of speech, what we need is people to be


1 respectful and not to use profanities, but I don't

2 think we should put parameters around what people say,

3 because not everybody speaks the same way, not

4 everybody has the same vocabulary and the same

5 abilities, and we must always recognize that sometimes

6 they're at their limit when they're speaking.

7 We don't all have the same

8 capabilities, but we should respect what they say, as

9 long as they saw it respectfully.

10 And the last thing I'd like to say is I

11 attended Mr. Bolus' Christmas dinner, and I meant to

12 say this previously, a lot of people came up to me and

13 said to me that they were still praying for my daughter

14 from 2004, and I would just like to say that I

15 appreciate that and I thank them for their prayers, and

16 that's all I have. Thank you.

17 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Fay Franus.

18 MS. FRANUS: Fay Franus, Scranton. I'D

19 like to know, is the continuation -- is there any more

20 City Clerk's Notes anymore as part of the agenda? I

21 know there hardly is anything.

22 MS. GATELLI: She didn't have anything

23 tonight, she said.

24 MS. FRANUS: But, like, in the last

25 four weeks, there's been barely anything, and every


1 week Jay Saunders used to have --

2 MS. GATELLI: Well, I can't answer for

3 Mrs. Garvey.

4 MR. COURTRIGHT: You know what I think

5 is happening, Fay, I think Mrs. Gatelli in the

6 beginning of the meeting is answering a lot of the

7 questions that maybe --

8 MS. GATELLI: Yeah, but she's ahead of

9 me.

10 MS. FRANUS: I know that, but you take

11 -- it's like president's notes now. Is it president's

12 notes now instead of --

13 MS. GATELLI: I do my own notes now. I

14 call everybody on my own. I don't have Mrs. Garvey do

15 any notes for me. So, if she has nothing to report,

16 you know, I can't help that.

17 MS. GARVEY: I report most of my things

18 to Council as they ask of me. I give the reports to

19 them --

20 MS. FRANUS: So, what you're saying is

21 then you tell Judy what they ask and then she tells us.

22 MS. GARVEY: No.

23 MS. GATELLI: No, she doesn't tell me

24 anything.

25 MS. GARVEY: No. I tell each


1 individual Councilperson the answer to the questions

2 that they have asked the previous week, and if there's

3 certain things that I need to bring out here, then I

4 will do that, but most of them they receive on their

5 own and then they're responsible for reporting.

6 MS. FRANUS: It's just that when Jay

7 was here, there was a lot more notes. Not that you're

8 -- I just don't know what happened to all that

9 information.

10 MS. GATELLI: Anything that I report,

11 Mrs. Franus, is things that I've done on my own, not

12 that Mrs. Garvey did for me.

13 MS. FRANUS: No, I wasn't implying that

14 at all, I was just wondering, because people have said,

15 how come there's not any --

16 MS. GATELLI: I don't know, I can't

17 answer that for you. You would have to ask Mrs. Garvey

18 that.

19 MS. GARVEY: I think there's been

20 clerk's notes probably twice that I can remember, I'd

21 have to look in my files to be sure, but that's, like I

22 said, I report to Council, and then if there's anything

23 further to come out here, I come out here with them.

24 MS. FRANUS: Mr. McTiernan, do you have

25 an E-mail address now?



2 MS. FRANUS: Did you have one before,

3 because I didn't know --

4 MR. MCTIERNAN: You're talking do I

5 have one in general?

6 MS. FRANUS: I mean for anybody to

7 write to you.

8 MS. FRANUS: They can just contact

9 Mrs. Garvey, that's what I would prefer.

10 MS. FRANUS: Wait, you don't have an

11 E-mail address?

12 MR. MCTIERNAN: I would prefer people

13 contact the city clerk's office, that's what I would

14 prefer.

15 MS. FRANUS: Let me get this straight,

16 if I wanted to write you a letter, I have to go through

17 somebody else?

18 MR. MCTIERNAN: Please send it to

19 Mrs. Garvey, please.

20 MS. FRANUS: Why? Why couldn't I just

21 write to you directly?

22 MR. MCTIERNAN: I'd prefer it goes

23 through Ms. Garvey.

24 MS. FRANUS: Suppose I wanted to say

25 something to you and I didn't want somebody else to


1 know?

2 MS. GATELLI: Can I intercede here for

3 a minute? I'm not going to speak for Bob McTiernan,

4 because he certainly can speak for himself, but when

5 you put your E-mail address on the television, you

6 leave yourself open to some very, very nasty E-mails

7 from anonymous people, and maybe that's why he doesn't

8 want to do that.

9 I can only speak for myself. I don't

10 know if anybody else got any, maybe it's just me, but,

11 you know, there are some nasty anonymous cowards out

12 there that can't talk to someone face to face and tell

13 them how they feel.

14 MS. FRANUS: Yeah, but you have their

15 E-mail back to get back to them, so you --

16 MS. GATELLI: Mine's on there.

17 MS. FRANUS: If someone writes to you,

18 you know who's writing to you because it --

19 MS. GATELLI: No, you don't, no, you

20 don't, no, you don't, you don't know who it is.

21 MS. FRANUS: You know where the E-mail

22 address is.

23 MS. GATELLI: The E-mail address cannot

24 be traced, as far as I know. I mean, I could probably

25 get a detective if they threatened my life, but, you


1 know, you can't tell who it is unless they answer you.

2 You know, some answer me. You know, if it's a

3 legitimate complaint and you hit reply up in the

4 corner, I'm not too good with the computer, but you hit

5 this little reply button and you can answer that

6 person, but the nasty ones you can't. So, maybe that's

7 why he doesn't want to do it.

8 MS. FRANUS: Okay. Whatever. It's

9 just more -- anyway, Mr. McTiernan, have we ever found

10 out why -- what the loan was for CRF, what the mayor

11 wanted to use that money for?

12 MR. MCTIERNAN: I don't recall being

13 asked that, but I will find out.

14 MS. FRANUS: We still don't know why?

15 MR. MCTIERNAN: No, I don't know that.

16 There was one project we talked about, and that was the

17 project --

18 MS. FRANUS: Could you please find out

19 what that money is earmarked for and when we are going

20 to be paying this back in astronomical amounts through

21 our taxes, I'm sure. CRF, the money he wanted to

22 borrow.

23 Let me just get here, because this

24 bell's going to ring. I just want to ask your opinion

25 on this tree house, I know the paper has been saying


1 that Mrs. Evans is against it, and she certainly is not

2 against it, and --

3 MS. GATELLI: You're not going to start

4 believing the paper, Fay.

5 MS. FRANUS: No, I don't, but some

6 people don't --

7 MS. GATELLI: That will be your first

8 mistake.

9 MS. FRANUS: I don't even read the

10 paper, I hear about it. Mr. Courtright and

11 Mr. McTiernan, how do you feel about the tree house, do

12 you feel that people should have to pay for it through

13 taxes or do you think they should just get private

14 donations?

15 MR. MCTIERNAN: I think every effort

16 should be made to use private donations to do that, but

17 I don't want to see that kill the project. I think

18 it's a worthwhile project.

19 MS. FRANUS: Who's going to pay for the

20 insurance, private donations, also? Is that going to

21 be kept up? Once the private donations pay for the

22 initial tree house, who's going to keep up the upkeep

23 and the insurance?

24 MR. MCTIERNAN: That was part of our

25 discussion this evening, and those figures will be


1 forthcoming, according to Mr. Scopelliti. He said we

2 needed to contact human resources, so I can't answer

3 you to how we should pay that until I know what it is.

4 But once we find out what the cost is, then we can make

5 a determination as to whether or not that cost is

6 worthwhile.

7 And as Mr. Scopelliti said earlier this

8 evening with regard to another speaker's comments, we

9 are strictly in the preliminary planning stages.

10 Architectural renderings and engineering drawings have

11 not been completed yet, we're in the very early stages

12 of planning, so once we're further on down the road,

13 then we can determine what it will cost to insure that

14 for liability purposes, and then we can make that

15 decision.

16 But as I understand it today, all of

17 the figures are fairly fluid, the $300,000 figure is a

18 maximum estimate cost, so I can only be speaking in

19 generalities, which quite frankly don't mean a whole

20 lot today.

21 So, when we get further down the road

22 with this project, I would be able to answer those in

23 much more concrete ways.

24 Regarding my opinions, although last

25 week we talked about opinions not meaning much, but I


1 would offer what I had, if you were asking me, and I'll

2 try to have those details for you.

3 MS. FRANUS: Opinions do matter.

4 MR. MCTIERNAN: Well, we had

5 conversations about that we should be voting, I don't

6 mean you and I, but we had conversations that we should

7 be voting the will of the people, but if you're asking

8 my opinion, I'll offer it.

9 MS. FRANUS: I asked you a question

10 last week, I got silence.

11 MR. MCTIERNAN: That's my prerogative,

12 too. If I recall, I have rights, too.

13 MS. FRANUS: Yes, but people do know

14 what that means.

15 MR. MCTIERNAN: I'm understand.

16 MS. FRANUS: So just so the people

17 know.

18 MR. MCTIERNAN: I'm glad everybody is

19 bright enough to figure that out, that's good.

20 MS. FRANUS: What about the Irish pub

21 that was supposed to be a part of Casey Garage, we

22 never heard any more about that.

23 MR. MCTIERNAN: I have no idea.

24 MS. FRANUS: Does anybody know?

25 MS. GATELLI: We will ask.


1 MS. FRANUS: All right. Thank you very

2 much.

3 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Julie Jones.

4 MS. JONES: Good evening, Council,

5 Julie Jones. Just from standing in the back of the

6 room, Mr. McTiernan, I would ask that you either pull

7 your microphone closer to yourself or bend it down

8 some, because like Mrs. Gatelli said, nobody can hear

9 you in the back of the room, so I'd appreciate that.

10 I'm here this evening to read a

11 proposal to you and also other reasons. I will read

12 this to you, and I do have a copy for everyone. It has

13 to do with the $52 tax.

14 Municipal services are generally fixed

15 whether you have a population of 75,000 or 100,000.

16 The idea of lowering our tax rates, especially the

17 earned income tax is vital to bringing our city back.

18 The following proposal would address

19 all concerns for city government and school district,

20 but most of all our current residents.

21 Over taxation, the mayor has done a

22 good job of attracting businesses through KOZs. These

23 tax benefits, as we all know, help only the individual

24 businesses for now.

25 When you're able to compete, which


1 would be our neighboring communities, we're seeking not

2 only new businesses, but businesses for the common

3 household. Our focus on parks is an excellent start,

4 but we must pursue aggressively for new residents, just

5 not businesses.

6 The ripple effect of lowering this

7 burdensome tax will be the key of actually restoring

8 the city. The following proposal wouldn't be a quick

9 fix, but a giant step in going the right direction for

10 our current residents and businesses. They should be

11 the focus.

12 Currently we have an earned income tax

13 of 3.4 percent. This is divided between the city and

14 the school district. The proposal would be to increase

15 the tax base, thus passing savings to the residents and

16 increasing income for the city, schools and businesses.

17 This is how it can be done.

18 All new family homeowners that either

19 buy an existing house or build one, a 12-year,

20 50 percent reduction in both earned income tax and

21 property taxes, offer all new non-profit properties

22 owners a 12-year, 50 percent reduction in only the

23 earned income tax, next take 25 percent from monies

24 collected above and pool the money.

25 You can then apply this to lowering the


1 earned income tax. The advantage to the city and

2 school district is that they will receive 12 and a half

3 percent more income from the expanded tax base with

4 increased population.

5 City businesses would benefit, too.

6 The 12-year period would benefit young families with

7 school aged children. Scranton's current system for

8 attracting new homeowners is, if you build a house

9 within city limits, you get a full property tax

10 disallowance for three years. This would need to be

11 eliminated by both government bodies.

12 The increasing of additional population

13 would expand the tax base. You would give more buying

14 power for all residents. You also compete with

15 neighboring communities.

16 We can aggressively market ourselves

17 for services we offer, full-time fire department,

18 police department, new school and other government

19 services.

20 This puts the city in position to

21 compete for new residents and we would create new

22 business opportunities. The reduction of the earned

23 income tax would help with growth of the city's tax

24 base.

25 Current residents that want to stay


1 here will finally start seeing some light at the end of

2 the tunnel.

3 Tax reduction equals growth for all

4 concerned. What do we have to lose besides shrinking

5 tax base? This is what businesses do, increase volume,

6 lower prices, or in our case, city taxes. And I will

7 give you all a copy of that when I'm done.

8 I'm also here to ask something of

9 Council. You were saying about to be nice and to have

10 respect and not to attack you while we're at the

11 podium, well, we would like that in return, also,

12 because I think some of us have been attacked at this

13 podium for no reason.

14 I would like to ask Council that before

15 you jump to give the gavel or to silence any citizen at

16 the podium, I would like you to think first and listen

17 to what is coming out of a person's mouth before you

18 silence that person.

19 Every time someone comes to the podium,

20 it seems like they get the good old gavel before you

21 even know what they're going to say. So, I would like

22 for you to think about it.

23 MS. GATELLI: Excuse me, excuse me,

24 Mrs. Jones. Please be quiet up in the balcony, we can

25 hear you. Thank you. Go ahead. I'm sorry.


1 MS. JONES: So, I would really like

2 before you gavel or before you ask Mr. Minora's

3 opinion, I would really like you to wait to see what

4 comes out of somebody's mouth before they get the

5 gavel.

6 You know, now I say to myself before I

7 come here, Gee, maybe Phyllis will be there and I will

8 have some gavel competition.

9 Also, I would like to see if this

10 meeting would even be able to be run without

11 Attorney Minora. Every other statement said is

12 challenged by Mrs. Gatelli asking Mr. Minora if it is

13 okay.

14 Do you five members, I mean four

15 members of Council, have minds of your own? When we

16 elected you, we thought you did. Maybe the junior

17 caucus can switch places with four of you and we might

18 get somewhere.

19 Mrs. Gatelli, at this point I feel you

20 are very inconsistent with who you gavel and who you

21 don't. Can you explain to me -- can you explain this

22 to me, because right now I am your personal target

23 every week.


25 MS. JONES: You can't explain?


1 MS. GATELLI: No. I just felt that you

2 were out of order.

3 MS. JONES: But last week I didn't even

4 get to say what I was going to say, and it was nothing

5 against you.

6 MS. GATELLI: I'd have to look at the

7 minutes to --

8 MS. JONES: You didn't even let me

9 start, and it was nothing negative against

10 Mrs. Fanucci, and you gaveled me right off the bat.

11 MS. GATELLI: Well, I'm sorry if you

12 felt that way.

13 MS. JONES: And I'm not going to bring

14 up the freedom of speech, I brought the proof you

15 wanted me to bring, it's right here.

16 Like everybody else said, we can't be

17 silenced. And we have our right, too, even if it's a

18 political comment, we're allowed to say it, according

19 to the law.

20 So, that's all I ask. Like I said, I

21 do feel I've been a political, not a political, a pin

22 cushion up here for the gavel. Every week I come,

23 every week I get gaveled.

24 I don't even get through what I'm going

25 to say, and I'm tossed out there, and I don't want it


1 anymore. I come here to speak my opinion, just like

2 anybody else.

3 You want us to be fair to you, well, we

4 want you to be fair to us the same reason.

5 MS. GATELLI: I will be.

6 MS. JONES: Because if this continues,

7 I'm going to tell you right now, I'm not going to

8 tolerate it, because if it's going to come down to

9 constant gaveling, I think --

10 MS. GATELLI: I didn't gavel anybody

11 tonight.

12 MS. JONES: I know you didn't.

13 MS. GATELLI: Aren't you proud of me?

14 MS. JONES: Maybe.

15 MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Jones, I don't

16 understand where this animosity came from with you --

17 MS. JONES: What animosity?

18 MS. GATELLI: -- against me.

19 MS. JONES: As far as what?

20 MS. GATELLI: As far as your attitude

21 when you come here.

22 MS. JONES: I've had an attitude before

23 you were here when I came here.

24 MS. GATELLI: Oh. Well, maybe I just

25 never noticed it, because, you know, you didn't do that


1 at the neighborhood meetings, and I feel threatened,

2 you know, by the way you came up here.

3 MS. JONES: Well, I'm sorry if you felt

4 that way. Like we said, that's your opinion and that's

5 my opinion.

6 MS. GATELLI: Well, I'm entitled to

7 mine, too.

8 MS. JONES: And so am I. And as far as

9 the resident meetings go, that's --

10 MS. GATELLI: All right. I don't want

11 to debate it here.

12 MS. JONES: I'm going to give you a

13 copy of what I read so you guys can look it over and

14 possibly think about it. It is something to think

15 about, as far as the $52 goes, and I really think in

16 the long run if you really read it, I think it will

17 really benefit the City of Scranton.

18 But, like I said, I would like respect

19 back. I don't mean to come across as being nasty up

20 here, but when you come up here, you want to get your

21 point across.

22 MS. GATELLI: You'll get your point

23 across, and I won't do that again.

24 MS. JONES: I just talked to

25 Mr. Scopelliti in the hallway, until he rudely walked


1 away from me and went into a meeting. Now he tells me

2 there's nothing that can be done at my house, because

3 he didn't know there was a road and an alley. Well,

4 what did he think, I lived on a farm? Yes, there's a

5 road and there's an alley.

6 He's saying because there's Valley View

7 project and Connell Park and city land, well, what,

8 that's all city land, so what is the problem with

9 fixing my situation?

10 And you were up there, and I'm going to

11 tell you right now, I did not like that answer, I did

12 not like that answer at all.

13 MS. GATELLI: It is a problem, I agree

14 with you.

15 MS. JONES: And if it doesn't get

16 fixed, I will take it to the next level, because I

17 can't keep affording to repair my house. We've lost

18 too much on our house, we've lost two vehicles because

19 of this. I can't do it anymore.

20 And you know what, God forbid, if my

21 son wasn't at the high school, or we'd be out of this

22 city, because if we're not going to get anything done,

23 I don't even see why we're here.

24 And like I said, I will try to improve

25 when I come up, but if the gaveling continues --


1 MS. GATELLI: I didn't gavel anyone

2 tonight.

3 MS. JONES: I didn't say you, I didn't

4 say you did, I'm just saying if it continues, I will --

5 I've already talked to the ACLU.

6 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Denise Prowl.

7 Am I saying it right?

8 MS. PROWL: I'm Denise Prowl, and I'm

9 from Clarks Summit, and I'm going to address an item on

10 your agenda tonight. I have some maps. This is

11 concerning a multi-municipal plan, and I have some maps

12 here.

13 The map shows the ten communities that

14 have elected to be in this multi-municipal plan, and

15 we're hoping that Scranton also joins in.

16 And the reason that multi-municipal

17 planning was enacted in the year 2000 or clarified and

18 modified by the State of Pennsylvania, I should say, is

19 that Pennsylvania has a terrible record of sprawling

20 landuse and abandonment of cities and older boroughs.

21 So, one of the reasons is that

22 Pennsylvania is unique, in that it requires each and

23 every municipality, no matter if it's urban or rural,

24 to allow for each and every type of landuse, and the

25 landuse, the list is very, very long, so if you're a


1 rural community and you try to allow for every landuse,

2 you're really urbanizing your community and you are

3 having to allow for high density residential

4 development, you're having to allow for commercial and

5 various uses that the rural areas really would rather

6 not have to allow for. They think that those uses are

7 better in a city than in a borough.

8 So, some of the municipalities, Newton

9 Township, North Abington and West Abington are still

10 very rural in the Abingtons, others are more densely

11 developed, others are a little bit suburbanized.

12 But the rural areas, for the most part,

13 want to remain rural, want to keep allowing for

14 agricultural uses, and a lot of the uses that are

15 required of them, Scranton wants or already has, so

16 they don't feel like they should, you know, have to

17 allow for a lot of commercial development which will

18 only compete with Scranton anyway.

19 So, we've already had eight

20 intermunicipal meetings since July, they've gone very

21 well, and we're hoping that you'll consider being in

22 this plan.

23 MS. GATELLI: Thank you very much.

24 Sarine O'Malley.

25 MS. O'MALLEY: Good evening, Council,


1 Sarine O'Malley. I'm here mainly because of the same

2 thing I'm always here for, I'm paying taxes on land I

3 can't use.

4 I, myself, this week went to see

5 George Parker, couldn't see him, I know he's a very

6 busy man, I did try to see him, I couldn't see him.

7 My question tonight is, and I kind of

8 got an answer earlier from Mrs. Gatelli, I would

9 seriously like to find out if my land is eligible to be

10 KOZ, why not? Why couldn't it be KOZ'd, in all

11 seriousness?

12 I kiddingly said this several times,

13 but now I'm dead serious, why not? And maybe the

14 Council could get me an answer.

15 This is, I mean, something very

16 serious. I am still paying taxes on land I can't use,

17 and why? And if it could possibly be KOZ'd until this

18 matter could be straightened out or whatever, that

19 would be great, because I am paying taxes on land I

20 can't use. I mean, I don't know if you can find that

21 out for me or point me in the right direction or tell

22 me yes, tell me no --

23 MS. GATELLI: We're going to try to

24 have the person that represents this area at a caucus

25 and we can certainly ask that question.


1 MS. O'MALLEY: Could you definitely

2 make sure that I know about it so you I could be here

3 to talk to them myself, please? I mean --

4 MS. GATELLI: I'll call you.

5 MS. O'MALLEY: Thank you. The other

6 thing is, too, I have gotten a lot of people asking me

7 things about what has been happening up there. The

8 thing that I need to emphasize to everybody, and I'm

9 sure Council too understands, this makes a difference.

10 There are a lot of other areas that

11 have landlocked areas. My situation is different

12 because of the walk bridge over 81, and a lot of people

13 don't understand that or -- and are asking me things

14 like that.

15 This is different because it was and is

16 still today paid by the state to be maintained and

17 never was. You know, this is something, too, that

18 bothers me, you know.

19 Like, you know, we're talking about a

20 tree house, well the state paid the city to maintain

21 it, and it was never done, you know? I mean, the tree

22 house went from 20 feet in the air to 140 feet in the

23 air, you know, and I don't want to see that happen, you

24 know?

25 Maintenance is a big thing in this


1 city, and my big thing is, everybody has their own

2 agendas, well, my agenda is the same thing, I have

3 trees growing in the middle of a city street, I have a

4 six-foot ditch, as you know, because we couldn't get

5 through it.

6 But PP&L maintains it, the Sewer

7 Authority maintains it, everybody else is doing their

8 job, my question is, why isn't the city?

9 And I have no answer. I get no

10 answers. I would truly like an answer on the KOZ, but

11 I would also like an answer from Mr. Parker, the mayor,

12 anybody and everybody, when is this street going to be

13 open so that I can get to my property? Thank you.

14 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Would anyone

15 else care to address Council?

16 MS. HUDACHEK: My name is

17 Fran Hudachek, I'm a taxpayer in Scranton. I'd like to

18 address the Council about Kane Street, it's extremely,

19 extremely dangerous. All the way from Pittston Avenue

20 all the way up to Stafford, it is one big rutty mess.

21 Judy's shaking her head. It is so, so bad.

22 I just moved into the neighborhood back

23 in June, but as of June I saw a lot of teenagers, a lot

24 of children walking up Kane toward that place, they

25 have, like, a barbecue there.


1 MS. GATELLI: The church, the Polish

2 National Church.

3 MS. HUDACHEK: Yes. Now, do you really

4 want those children walking up there? You talk about

5 disabled and everything else, do you want those

6 children -- there's no lights, there's tractor-trailers

7 coming down there, and the whole entire run is full of

8 potholes, and they're big and they're deep.

9 Now, I'd like to know, can we address

10 that? Can you take a ride up there? Could you please

11 look at it and also take a ride onto South Webster, and

12 that's very, very bad, also.

13 I'm a taxpayer over there, I pay a lot

14 of money. Believe me, we're paying a lot of money over

15 there. We'd like you to address that, please.

16 MS. GATELLI: I'd like to comment on

17 that, because I do live there, and I walk that way when

18 the weather is nice and I go for a walk with my

19 husband, and I know that several years ago they tried

20 to correct a little bit of the problem by putting, oh,

21 large rocks, I want to call it modified, but it's not,

22 it's larger, and they put them in the sides, you know

23 where the water comes down, it's seems to have eroded

24 since then, and it's become much worse.

25 The problem there is that in the


1 development where you live in, there are no storm

2 sewers at all, none in that development. Now, that

3 would not be allowed in this day and age, but back

4 then, for some unknown reason, there were no storm

5 sewers, so the water, I don't know if you've ever been

6 there when it's raining, it's like Niagara Falls coming

7 down that street.

8 MS. HUDACHEK: I know. It's also like

9 a solid sheet of ice in the winter.

10 MS. GATELLI: Yes, because it freezes

11 in the winter.

12 MS. HUDACHEK: It freezes over. At

13 nighttime, there's no lights, it's a frozen solid sheet

14 of ice, and then you're dealing with that, plus you're

15 dealing with all the holes. I mean, they're not small

16 little holes, they're big and they're deep.

17 MS. GATELLI: Some kind of a drainage

18 system, maybe like they've done on East Mountain, you

19 know, to at least pipe it from the development to come

20 down the street.

21 MS. HUDACHEK: But, Mrs. Gatelli, do

22 you also know there's factories there?

23 MS. GATELLI: Yes. Oh, yes, I know.

24 I've lived there for 54 years.

25 MS. HUDACHEK: Econo Lodge is there,


1 why aren't they a little bit responsible? They're

2 bringing in all those tractor-trailers, why aren't they

3 being made responsible? Why can't they fix some of it?

4 You know, we pay a lot of money for our

5 taxes, why should we pay for it, when all of those

6 tractor-trailers are the ones who are -- you are going

7 to pave it, they're going to come down with their

8 tractor-trailers and rip it all up again.

9 So, I really think it should be

10 addressed, it should be driven, it should be looked at,

11 okay?

12 MS. GATELLI: I'll talk to Mr. Parker

13 and see if -- it needs major work.

14 MS. HUDACHEK: Major work, and it's

15 bad. Before the summertime, before someone really gets

16 hurt.

17 MS. GATELLI: Yes, it is bad there.

18 MS. HUDACHEK: And before the city gets

19 sued by someone who really gets hurt, let's try to fix

20 it. Thank you.

21 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Thank you very

22 much. Next speaker.

23 MR. DAVIS: Asssalaam Alaikum.

24 Jim Davis from Scranton. While walking up the street

25 today I ran into a young man who used to work with the


1 city government, and he said to me, he said, the

2 Connell Building is a KOZ, but they have on their

3 windows rooms available, would you please check into

4 that? I don't know if there are apartments for rent or

5 what is the status.

6 If it's a KOZ, does that mean that they

7 have lower prices or what does that mean to us as

8 residents of the city? Are they bypassing one of their

9 major points by making things available for other

10 people now that they've already gotten KOZ status?

11 That's number one.

12 Number two, my main reason for coming

13 here is to try to protect the kids of Central City.

14 I've said this so many times, and I'll keep right on

15 saying it, I think our kids need as much of a help up,

16 a hand up, as they do in Connell Park, Weston Field or

17 anywhere else in this city.

18 I've got a large number of children

19 that reside in Central City, they go to school in

20 Central City, whose parents work very hard, and we

21 don't have the protection for them that we need.

22 I've had people come to this city and

23 ask to be crossing guards at the corner of

24 Washington Avenue and Olive Street, and it's taking

25 them now two months or more to just give him a badge.


1 He doesn't want any money. He wants to do it on his

2 own, but I'm saying, it doesn't happen. We need that

3 crossing guard there.

4 MS. GATELLI: Where is that, Mr. Davis?

5 MR. DAVIS: Olive Street and

6 Washington Avenue.

7 MS. GATELLI: Was there ever a crossing

8 guard there?

9 MR. DAVIS: Never. But they have them

10 at Wyoming Avenue. Okay. The whole thing of

11 constitutionality, if we can speak, when we can speak,

12 how we can speak, it's a done deal.

13 We all know our Constitutional Rights,

14 because we've had this done. We have to know them in

15 order to survive in the United States.

16 Many of us have fought abroad for these

17 Constitutional Rights, and when we come back here and

18 we feel that we're being told to shut up, we become

19 very, very incenses and very angry, because we are home

20 and we're still being told to shut up after many years

21 of paying the price.

22 This is the month of African American

23 History or African American knowledge. I really

24 suggest to you that you spend some time with African

25 American histories and find out a little bit more about


1 those people that are your neighbors now, those who

2 have to live next to you, those who have to live among

3 you, and it will make your days, your nights, your

4 feelings of security, because there seems to be so much

5 fear in this city of what this group is going to do

6 against us and what that group is going to do against

7 us. It's not necessary.

8 Knowledge will do away with a lot of

9 the fear that we have, and we need to learn not to

10 fear, we need to learn how to trust, not only in God,

11 but each other. Thank you.

12 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Anyone else

13 like to speak before Council?

14 MS. KRAKE: Good evening, Council. My

15 name is Nancy Krake, and I'm a resident of the City of

16 Scranton. I have a couple questions on Resolution 5-B,

17 and we did have a speaker earlier that spoke a little

18 about it, but I still have more questions.

19 I was wondering if Council has received

20 a copy of the grant that's being requested. I would

21 like to ask then if I may have a copy of the grant once

22 Council receives it.


24 MS. KRAKE: I would also like to know

25 what is the Scranton Abington Planning Association,


1 when was it formed, how was it formed, who's seated on

2 it, what are its bylaws.

3 MS. EVANS: Mrs. Krake, if I could just

4 interrupt a minute, it appears that the individual who

5 spoke earlier has some answers for you.

6 MS. KRAKE: I thought she might.

7 MS. EVANS: If you want to speak to her

8 later than -- I don't believe we can bring her back.

9 MS. KRAKE: Yeah. I think it's

10 something, though, that everyone on Council, I'm sure,

11 would want to know, because the next logical question

12 is, is this association something like one of our

13 authorities that has run amuck, which I doubt after

14 that lovely speaker earlier, but I still --

15 MS. GATELLI: Excuse me. But the

16 application is here.

17 MS. KRAKE: Oh, great. The grant is

18 there? And I can have a copy of it then?

19 MS. GATELLI: You can have mine.

20 MS. KRAKE: Thank you.

21 MS. GATELLI: It was from that lady.

22 MS. KRAKE: Oh, you just brought it up.

23 You didn't have it previously, you just got it now?

24 MS. GATELLI: The woman that came here

25 brought it.


1 MS. KRAKE: Okay. That's fine. I just

2 would like to read it. I'm sure everyone on Council

3 wants to read it.

4 My point is, would their

5 recommendations be binding all on their own, as we've

6 seen with the authorities, which is very scary, or when

7 they recommend, would that come back to the city then

8 and they'd be allowed to vote?

9 I just never heard of several of these

10 phrases in this resolution, and I just would like to

11 know what they are before we just vote on them.

12 I would also like to know, since we're

13 applying for a grant, why is there a cost for the city,

14 and what that cost is, and how it would be paid for,

15 what funds would the city be paying for that, has it

16 been budgeted for?

17 MR. COURTRIGHT: The cost is in here,

18 Nancy.

19 MR. MCTIERNAN: $34,000 over two years.

20 MS. KRAKE? And why do we have a cost

21 when we're requesting a grant? I mean, you don't have

22 to -- these are things I don't expect anyone obviously

23 to answer right now, but before this gets passed, since

24 it's a resolution, it will be passed quickly, I think

25 those are some things we'd like answered or I would


1 like answered, I should say.

2 MS. GATELLI: A lot of times when you

3 have a grant, you have to be a participant in the

4 grant.

5 MS. KRAKE: I understand, but that is

6 part of my question, and then where would the city --

7 what funds would they be using to pay for it, are they

8 budgeted or how are they getting them?

9 MR. MCTIERNAN: I can read the letter

10 that comes from the city planner, Don King. Attention,

11 Dear Attorney Farrell, enclosed please find a draft

12 resolution authorizing the city's participation in the

13 multimunicipal planning effort. Participation in this

14 effort requires the city to commit to funding its share

15 of the plan for an amount not to exceed $34,464 to be

16 paid over a two-year period.

17 This legislation is required to submit

18 an application to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania for

19 funding through the landuse -- landuse planning

20 technical assistance program to match the funds

21 committed by the participating municipalities.

22 This resolution would be a follow-up to

23 Resolution No. 170, 2005, and that was over the

24 summertime. We voted -- the young lady was in to see

25 us at caucus over the summertime, I can't put any dates


1 on it specifically, but we did vote to become a

2 participating member of that.

3 I want to say it was the summer, my

4 memory is a little foggy --

5 MS. PROWL: September or October.

6 MR. MCTIERNAN: Was it that late? My

7 memory is foggier than I thought, but --

8 MS. KRAKE: Had we committed funds at

9 that time?


11 MS. KRAKE: So, we still don't know

12 where the funds are coming from. That's my question.

13 MR. COURTRIGHT: That's a question

14 we'll have to ask then.

15 MS. KRAKE: Thank you. That's all.

16 That was the question. And also all the questions I've

17 asked about the Scranton Abington Planning Association,

18 all the -- each individual one of those, thank you

19 very, very much.

20 My next question is, and I haven't

21 asked Mr. Fiorini yet, so there may be answers to this,

22 I was just surprised last week, and again this week,

23 when I heard the city saying they were able to sell

24 properties because they were condemned.

25 In the past we sold them through the


1 Pittsburgh Plan or at a city treasurer's sale, so

2 unless we have quiet title to these properties, I don't

3 know how the city is doing that. There may be

4 something legitimate there, I'm sure there's something

5 legitimate, I would just like to know exactly what

6 they're doing and how they're doing it, because it's a

7 very unusual thing, especially since they haven't

8 alerted the treasurer's office, who normally handles

9 that.

10 And also there is a list of tax exempt

11 properties in the city treasurer's office, they're

12 broken down by year up to a certain point. Before

13 that, you actually would have to look through the

14 delinquent books, and sometimes they're there or not,

15 but if anyone is interested in that, they're in the

16 city treasurer's office. Thank you.

17 MS. GATELLI: Thank you.

18 MR. ANCHERANI: Good evening, Council.

19 I'm Nelson Ancherani, I'm a resident, taxpayer, city

20 employer and a member of the FOP.

21 I know there's been much discussion

22 about the $300,000 tree house that's going to be built

23 over the Gorge, it's enlightening to see that no

24 taxpayer dollars will have to be spent on the

25 construction. Taxpayer dollars will come later.


1 No taxpayer money will be spent because

2 of private donations and private funding. I saw a

3 partial list of who is donating to fund the

4 construction of the tree house. On that list are a

5 number of unions.

6 Those unions should be especially

7 generous, since some union reps were at Council weekly

8 during September and October of last year. They were

9 asking Council to pass the CRF legislation that would

10 be used for new construction projects, so it was

11 refreshing seeing the unions step up. As I said, their

12 donations should be very, very generous.

13 One concern of the tree house location

14 would be its accessibility to persons with

15 disabilities. How would persons with wheelchairs,

16 Jazzies or canes get to it unless a paved path is

17 constructed? I guess that's the Davis Trail. Would

18 that be paved?

19 The city is great for taking on

20 projects for Nay Aug, but Ms. O'Malley said it,

21 maintenance is terrible in the city. The $700,000

22 green fish pond was not cleaned last year, still not

23 cleaned.

24 I spoke about raw sewage over the

25 Davis Trail, and you said that was excavated, so that's


1 good.

2 The bathhouse at Nay Aug was

3 constructed too small, it's not up to code, and someone

4 mentioned that fireplaces need repair up there.

5 Another example of failing to maintain

6 what assets the city has or had was the computers and

7 the police cars. During arbitration hearings, the city

8 said that they have state of the art computers in those

9 cars, and therefore they could eliminate the SIT

10 clerks.

11 Wrong. The city failed to maintain the

12 computers. They're all obsolete, no working computers

13 in the cars.

14 And we should start a pool to see how

15 long it will take the tree house to fall into the same

16 condition as the fish pond and the computer system, and

17 we shouldn't forget that there will be related costs to

18 the tree house. That's where the taxpayers' money

19 comes in.

20 The cost will be police security,

21 garbage collection, electricity, they're going to have

22 to preserve the wood, so they'll need those supplies,

23 they'll need fireplaces or grills, picnic tables and

24 benches, so there's extra costs. The city isn't going

25 to get off scott free.


1 And I've been asking for expenses on

2 different items the last couple of weeks, but I'll try

3 to have a list next week so we can maybe see what some

4 of those costs were. One of the examples is the

5 expenses at Nay Aug for Christmas.

6 A new category to start asking about is

7 the new police building. It's very nice, too small,

8 I'll keep saying that.

9 Questions will be, What are the

10 electric bills going to be, the water bills, the sewage

11 bills, the heating costs, the air conditioner costs?

12 The air conditioner will be -- those

13 costs will be in the summer. We have another expense,

14 snow removal and supplies. They're all extra expenses

15 since the police department moved from City Hall. So,

16 during the year, this year anyway, I can see money

17 being transferred to pay these extra expenses.

18 And I believe the woman said her name

19 was Mrs. Hudachek, that intersection at Winfield and

20 Kane, it's the middle of the intersection, it's bad,

21 very bad.

22 Mrs. Gatelli, I'm going to ask about

23 the soldiers, I know you said you were going to talk to

24 at the mayor about that, the $200 bonus a month for

25 every month --


1 MS. GATELLI: I talked to the mayor

2 today about that, and he's getting me in touch with

3 Lisa Moran, so I'll let you know what transpires.

4 MR. ANCHERANI: Okay. And about the

5 job tax, at the end of 2004, I know Mr. McTiernan had

6 spoken about an acquaintance or friend who couldn't

7 afford it at that time, I'm hoping they can now because

8 you did vote for it this time, so I hope their

9 condition or it's changed for them so they can afford

10 it now. Thank you.

11 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else care to speak

12 before Council?

13 MR. MCGUIRE: Good evening, Council.

14 William McGuire, city taxpayer. I guess I'll get it

15 out of the way first, I'd like to approach Council with

16 copies, could I approach?

17 As you can see, the viewing audience

18 can't, this is a letter that I sent to Council dated

19 April 2, 2001.

20 The reason I brought this, I've been

21 debating over the last several weeks when this Council

22 reconvened, or I'm sorry, reorganized, there was talk

23 of this particular subject.

24 I have spoken on this subject, I would

25 say, at least once a year for the last almost five


1 years, and the letter I wrote, I'm not going to read

2 the whole thing, it's about the citizens participation

3 aspect of the meeting, and I'll read the second

4 paragraph, it says, I believe that fourth order of

5 business, which is public participation segment, should

6 be maintained for the citizens to speak on

7 agenda-related items.

8 The eight order of business, currently

9 adjournment, should be moved to ninth order, making the

10 eighth order of business matters of concern, public

11 participation.

12 This way people wishing to express

13 concerns over agenda items may do so in a timely manner

14 allowing Council to conclude the business at hand.

15 People offering other information and

16 concerns not related to the current agenda can be heard

17 when the current matters are resolved.

18 I believe this will allow Council to

19 better function while not making the citizens feel they

20 have been stifled. Also it will eliminate the need to

21 schedule additional meetings for citizens

22 participation.

23 We haven't talked about that this year

24 with this Council, but in the past it was spoken about

25 and they were going to have public meetings put on and


1 people could just air their concerns then.

2 I just wonder if -- I'm have blind, so

3 I can't even use the phrase, 20/20 hindsight, so I'll

4 say 20 hindsight, if we did this in 2001, would we be

5 here today at this podium speaking on this same issue

6 as we are this evening?

7 In other matters, and I would like to

8 add that I can only hope, as I testified to three

9 previous Council presidents, Mr. Hazzouri, Mr. Murphy

10 and Mr. DiBileo, I asked them to implement these same

11 rules, and tonight I would ask Mrs. Gatelli, maybe she

12 would consider it in fifth order to make the motion and

13 let the body that sits before us decide on whether we

14 should move forward with this action.

15 In other aspects, I was glad to say I

16 came at a good time. I came to talk about

17 condemnations.

18 Last week Mrs. Gatelli had mentioned

19 it, they are available for purchase, Nancy Krake had

20 just mentioned how they're being sold. My concern is,

21 and I've said this in the past before this Council is,

22 if we could take possession of these condemned

23 properties prior to tearing them down, as you know a

24 lot of properties that are condemned, they're condemned

25 form various reasons, sometimes those properties are


1 able to be rehabbed, and I think it's a wonderful idea

2 to do that.

3 I would like to go one step further in

4 our city, and I think -- I believe it was Mrs. Jones

5 who had talked about lowering the wage tax and adding

6 more population to our city.

7 One way I thought we could do this, and

8 I think, Mr. McTiernan, if I'm correct, last year maybe

9 I had mentioned it in brief to you is a lot of people,

10 contractors, entrepreneurs, would be interested in

11 purchasing a house and rehabing that house to keep it

12 on the tax rolls, but there's a cost associated with

13 when you rehab a house on some remodeling aspects,

14 there's a new assessment on the improvements, you might

15 have to add an addition on to make it adequate living

16 space.

17 What I would like to see is the two

18 bodies of government, actually the three bodies of

19 government, tax collector, school director and the city

20 to come together to have what would be a residential

21 KOZ, but not call it a KOZ, where if you rehabed a

22 property, you would get a tax relief on the

23 improvements of the property for five years.

24 There could be stipulations in it, not

25 12 years. If you sold the property, immediately they


1 would have to pay the taxes, the taxes would go up on

2 the property, they would automatically be assessed, and

3 you could do many variations.

4 I look at this as a lot of pros. I

5 don't see zero cons in it. The pros are the property

6 is back on the tax roll, I think that's great, we

7 removed blight from a neighborhood, that's excellent,

8 trade persons are at work, tax dollars are coming in

9 and the neighborhood is being sustained by doing this

10 or implementing this.

11 If we tear a house down, I know there's

12 many ways they try to control blight. To me, a

13 blighted home is a safety hazard blight, a vacant

14 property is still blight.

15 If you have a vacant property and the

16 grass is high, it's blight. Blight is blight to me and

17 I think we need to look beyond just the blight and need

18 to put those properties back on the tax rolls.

19 The other thing is, two members of this

20 Council weren't sitting on Council last year when I

21 asked Council to look into cat licensing. I submitted

22 information in the licensing area, how it would help

23 the city, ten reasons why we should do this as a city,

24 we should be progressive and move forward and do that.

25 Also I attached it to what is called a


1 TMR, trap, neuter, release program in the city. There

2 is information in Council, and I know that Mr. Coolican

3 had pulled that information for Council to review.

4 I think it's something they should look

5 at, I think it would be great for our city, and it

6 would be great for the animals.

7 You know, you would be sustaining their

8 life expectancy helping them help the people in our

9 city. And could I have one minute or no? My time is

10 up? Was that two bells or one?

11 MS. GATELLI: Two bells.

12 MR. MCGUIRE: Okay. Thanks.

13 MS. GATELLI: Anyone else care to speak

14 before Council?

15 MR. SLEDZINSKI: I got a question for

16 Judy, this city is bad, you can't even walk the streets

17 at night, you can't go out of your house at night, it's

18 too scary to go out. I want something done, Judy, I

19 want something done, all right?

20 MS. GATELLI: Okay.

21 MS. SLEDZINSKI: Promise, Judy,

22 promise?

23 MS. GATELLI: I promise. You're

24 getting two police officers in West Side.

25 MS. SLEDZINSKI: Thanks, Judy.


1 MS. GATELLI: And if you want help with

2 that hand, come and see a good nurse tomorrow.

3 MR. SLEDZINSKI: I will. I will come

4 and see you.

5 MS. GATELLI: Okay. Anyone else care

6 to speak before Council? Kay.






12 --

13 MS. GATELLI: Kay, motions.

14 MS. GARVEY: Oh, I'm sorry.

15 Owe, I'm sorry. 5-A motions.

16 MR. COURTRIGHT: You did it on purpose,

17 Kay, don't lie.

18 MS. GARVEY: 5-A, Motions. I'm trying

19 to get this meeting moving along.

20 MS. GATELLI: Mrs. Evans.

21 MS. EVANS: Thank you. Ladies and

22 gentlemen, it's a miracle, I opened today's newspaper,

23 and there it was, the mayor's supports and applauds

24 Mrs. Gatelli's stand on the non-profits.

25 Now, what has caused this mayor's


1 metamorphosis? There are only two possibilities as I

2 see it, first, now that the city's financial house of

3 cards is tumbling down and the bills are breaking the

4 bank, such as millions owed to American Water Services,

5 the necessity of a conversion to gas heat in municipal

6 buildings, PEL's warnings that the borrowing must stop,

7 unpaid arbitration awards, $20 million in debt service

8 payments in 2006 alone, yes, now that we are in the

9 financial toilet, the mayor applauds pursuing

10 contributions from non-profits, or possibly number two,

11 he likes Mrs. Gatelli.

12 MS. GATELLI: I don't think my husband

13 would like that. Joe Gatelli is very jealous.

14 MS. EVANS: Well, approximately one

15 year ago President DiBileo announced our fervent intent

16 to make the non-profits pay their fair share. We

17 shared this goal and believed it essential to the

18 financial health of Scranton, in fact,

19 President DiBileo spoke to, it might have been the

20 Scranton Area Foundation, requesting their assistance

21 to achieve this goal, however, Mr. Doherty went on

22 record in The Scranton Times opposing contributions

23 from non-profits. He said non-profits already

24 contribute to Scranton in other ways and many can't

25 forward to contribute in lieu of taxes. Without his


1 support, any talks with non-profits became empty

2 sterile conversations.

3 It's much like the teenager who has

4 been told to clean his room, and of course it's the

5 mother who tells him to clean that room, meanwhile, his

6 father says, You don't have to clean your room, don't

7 listen to your mother, I'm the boss in this house.

8 Council wanted non-profits to pay up,

9 the mayor said, You don't have to pay, don't listen to

10 that Council, they're obstructionists.

11 Tonight I wish to set the record

12 straight. I support Mrs. Gatelli's effort to collect a

13 fair share 1000 percent. If she so desires my help, I

14 offer that willingly, as well, because this is the

15 right thing to do, but perhaps someone can tell me why

16 it has taken the mayor nearly five years to agree and

17 why he declined to support Mr. DiBileo and this Council

18 majority in their efforts a year ago this month.

19 I also believe that the State of

20 Pennsylvania should take a long hard look at

21 non-profits who are located in financially distressed

22 areas.

23 The state, I believe, should encourage

24 non-profits to pay their fair share to prevent the

25 erosion of the tax base in financially strapped cities.


1 And on a related topic, I suggest that

2 non-profit organizations might move their offices to

3 the Southern Union building. Since they are already

4 tax exempt, the taxpayer and they lose nothing by a

5 relocation to a KOZ or KOEZ. In turn, the buildings,

6 the non-profits formerly occupied, can now return to

7 the tax rolls when taxable businesses occupy them.

8 I notice, too, that our state

9 legislators seek to assist in wage tax relief for

10 Philadelphia. I believe it's time to seek some relief

11 for Scranton.

12 Again, so often I read of governmental

13 attempts to address an excessively high wage tax levied

14 on Philadelphia, while Scranton remains the second

15 highest wage tax in the state.

16 With such a significant budget deficit

17 in 2006 and a looming property tax increase, I don't

18 believe we can see any reduction in the wage tax

19 without some type of assistance from the state.

20 I received a report from taxpayers who

21 state the Scranton Sewer Authority was working on a

22 property Green Ridge Street and Sanderson Avenue last

23 Saturday, February 4. Kay, please send a letter to

24 Mr. Barrett, chairman of the Sewer Authority, can the

25 SSA work on private property? What did the developer


1 pay for the SSA services, and what is the SSA policy

2 regarding installation and repairs of sewer lines on

3 private property?

4 And, Kay, would you know, I looked

5 through the mail I received this week, but I wasn't

6 able to locate anything, did we receive a response from

7 Mr. Parker regarding the meeting with neighbors from

8 Hollow Avenue?

9 MS. GARVEY: No, we didn't.

10 MS. EVANS: Okay. It is also

11 appropriate tonight that we recognize the recent

12 passing of an American inspiration, Coretta Scott King.

13 How fitting she left this life during the celebration

14 of Black History Month. She has indeed created her own

15 page in history and stands beside her inspirational

16 spouse, the Reverend Martin Luther King in our esteem.

17 I also have a number of citizens'

18 requests, but first I would like to begin with a

19 commercial announcement supporting the families who

20 support the military, February 22 from 5 to 8 p.m. at

21 Friendly's Restaurant in Dunmore hosted by the Upper

22 Hill Ecumenical Committee, so everyone please come out

23 and enjoy a wonderful meal at friendly's, and a

24 percentage of that will be donated to the military and

25 their families.


1 Now, the 1100 block of Watson Street,

2 repair potholes. Pave Smith place, a court that runs

3 between Watson and Sloan Street. The court has not

4 been paved in over 35 years. Potholes extend from the

5 entrance off South Main up to Schlager Avenue.

6 I'm told the court is a primary access

7 for most utility companies and refuse pickups.

8 Numerous property owners have garages and carports

9 facing this court. If not, a house itself, Smith Place

10 also serves as a shortcut off South Main Avenue because

11 of the flooding and/or accidents. Traffic oftentimes

12 has been diverted through Smith Place.

13 A letter to Mr. Fiorini, please contact

14 the owner of 1147 Sloan Street and request they keep

15 the dumpster behind the right of way at the court.

16 Oak Street and Brick Avenue at East

17 Market Street, vehicles are parking on the sidewalk.

18 Please report to the police department for further

19 action. 1700 and 1800 blocks of McDonough Avenue, ATVs

20 are cited traveling on these streets.

21 I attended a meeting of the

22 North Scranton Neighborhood Association this past

23 Monday to learn their needs of late, and as a result, I

24 ask for a letter to Ms. Hailstone, when will the

25 $10,000 in matching funds be delivered to the North


1 Scranton Neighborhood Association for the Providence

2 Square Clock Project?

3 The association has already received

4 $10,000 from the county government, and the city's

5 payment must be received in order for the clock to be

6 installed in four to five weeks. Residents of North

7 Scranton would like that installation to occur prior to

8 St. Patrick's Day.

9 Also, if anyone wishes to donate to the

10 clock fund, checks may be made payable to the North

11 Scranton Business Association or NSBA and mailed to

12 Dr. Barry Minora.

13 Schimpff Court, located in the rear of

14 1712 Cedar Avenue, a Hart Masonry truck has been parked

15 in the same spot since the summer of 2005. Both the

16 registration and inspection expired in April 2004.

17 This is my third request in more than double the amount

18 of months.

19 A memo to Mr. Parker, are there any

20 plans to extend Gibson Street beyond Capouse Avenue?

21 The corner of Larch Street and North Washington near

22 the city steam plant, please fill the large depression

23 in the street.

24 The 600 through 1000 blocks of Clay

25 Avenue, repair potholes. Corner of Olive Street and


1 Quincy Avenue, although the barricades were removed and

2 cold patch was applied, a depression of several inches

3 still remains, according to residents of the area.

4 212 Oak Street, and I did receive

5 correspondence from Mr. Seitzinger concerning this

6 property, but I have since been notified that there is

7 a notice of determination of blight pin No.

8 13412060044, posted in that location. The owner is

9 deceased. The vacant property review committee met in

10 2005 on this issue, and the contact person is Ms.

11 Blackwell from OECD.

12 I'd like a status report on that

13 property. Is it for sale? Who is currently

14 responsible for its maintenance, because neighbors are

15 complaining this is an eyesore.

16 There's an ill legal vehicle parked at

17 the rear of 2907 Pittston Avenue, and as a result of

18 tonight's caucus, I'd like a letter to human resources,

19 attention Lisa Moran, what insurance costs will be

20 incurred for the Nay Aug tree house?

21 And lastly, I would like a

22 proclamation, Kay, for the West Scranton High School

23 wrestling team. I'm in the process of collecting

24 information about team members, which I will provide to

25 Mrs. Garvey following the members' participation in


1 Hershey this weekend.

2 Two of the seniors, I'm told, had

3 achieved their 100th wins this season, which is a most

4 impressive feat. And, Mrs. Gatelli, that is how I

5 spent my evenings and my computer time with all these

6 many e-mails and probably many, many, many more.

7 That's it.

8 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Mrs. Fanucci.


10 honored to speak at a Lackawanna Leadership Program.

11 They'd actually invited all of us to go in and

12 participate. It was a very wonderful event. It was at

13 Gertrude Hawks. And tell me right now, like, would I

14 not go to Gertrude Hawks? No. I don't think anybody

15 -- give me chocolate, I'm there.

16 But they had so many ideas. What they

17 did was they invite people who are leaders in our area

18 and work in our city businesses and all over our

19 government and everything else, get together and just

20 brainstorm on what it is that they think we need, the

21 direction we need to go.

22 The ideas were very similar to a lot of

23 ideas we hear every day, and a lot of what you have to

24 say. Businesses, jobs, the normal way to attract

25 businesses and jobs.


1 What their main event was economic

2 development, how we believe that economic development

3 will help pay our taxes, and that is what we want, we

4 want to attract businesses.

5 So, I just want to thank them for

6 inviting me. It was obviously my first speaking

7 engagement as your new City Councilwoman, and it was

8 very nice and it was a great event for me.

9 Also, this week I went to the Bethel

10 AME Church to the homeless shelter. I had had a tour

11 of this shelter for the first time, and I want to say

12 it was a very awakening experience.

13 These people are not homeless, due to

14 the fact a lot of them still work. They're working

15 people and go there at night.

16 It was a moving experience to see

17 children and families who couldn't afford their heat

18 this winter, and it was a very mild winter, and yet

19 still they are 50 people a night who actually go there.

20 And the people that take care of them are so wonderful

21 and giving and they had hot cooked meals.

22 I went on the night of the Super Bowl,

23 can you imagine? Did they want to talk to me? They're

24 like, Get away from me, I want to watch TV. We're here

25 to watch the Super Bowl.


1 But it was an awakening experience.

2 They do need some helps, cots, very simple things,

3 sleeping bags, a lot of things we give away every day

4 and we have.

5 If you can drop off something there,

6 that is something that would really help these people

7 out. The littlest thing to us is really a big thing

8 for them.

9 And this is where we need to focus. We

10 need to talk to these people and find out how we can

11 help, how we can give them a hand up and maybe not have

12 so many people there.

13 That's something I'm working very

14 closely with Reverend Newberry. I just want to tell

15 everyone, if there's anything you can do, stop by there

16 and just take a look and maybe give them an old

17 sleeping bag or even a new one would be nice, would be

18 nice. That was my week.

19 I also want to thank DPW for helping me

20 with three potholes this week, and I can give a report

21 of all the wonderful phone calls I got, but that's

22 pretty much it. Thanks.

23 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. Mr.

24 McTiernan.

25 MR. MCTIERNAN: Mrs. Gatelli, I'm sorry


1 I have to disappoint you tonight.

2 MS. GATELLI: Oh, don't do it.

3 MR. MCTIERNAN: I have nothing at this

4 time, Madame President.

5 MS. GATELLI: Oh, no. Here we go.

6 MS. GATELLI: Mr. Courtright.

7 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yes. I have the list

8 of the beats that people were interested in, they were

9 CommD beats, and what we have is in West Scranton we

10 have a 3-A and 3-B, they have two beats there, in South

11 Scranton they have a 6-A and a 6-B, two beat there, in

12 North Scranton we have a 5-A, and in the Hill Section

13 we have two 1-As, so there are two officers under the

14 same thing, CD-1-A.

15 Weston Field, it's 4-A, the beat is,

16 but there's not an officer there now. If anybody

17 listened earlier, they've given a police test recently,

18 and that beat will be filled in the near future.

19 Pine Brook is 2-A, and Green Ridge is

20 4-B. Once again, Green Ridge does not have a beat

21 officers as of yet. When the testing is all done,

22 those will be filled.

23 I have a -- I'll leave this with Kay,

24 and if anybody's interested, it gives you the

25 parameters of what streets they cover and where they go


1 to, and it's a little lengthy for me to read off here

2 today, so if anybody is interested, I will leave it

3 with Kay and she will be happy to provide you with

4 that.

5 Ray Lyman came here very upset last

6 week about a pothole when you're going into West

7 Scranton over the Lackawanna Avenue Bridge, the one

8 near Jerry Donahue's building there, and Mr. Patrick

9 McMullen, I think, took care of that. I checked it out

10 today, it's filled in. So, we thank Patrick.

11 On Linden Street going from West

12 Scranton downtown across the street from Keystone

13 Building block, there's a large building there, I think

14 it says on the outside EPCOR, and I spoke to Mr.

15 Fiorini about it and I got to get back to him, it's

16 been vacant for a long time, a lot of police calls

17 there, homeless people living in there, the people in

18 the neighborhood are pretty disgusted with it.

19 And I called Mr. Fiorini, and he wasn't

20 100 percent sure if it's the city's property or if it's

21 not the city's property, but certainly if it is, we

22 will see what we can do with it, if we can board it up

23 so that they can't get back in there, or if they can

24 put it up for sale, it's a rather large building.

25 And one of the more important things I


1 have tonight, I have several pictures here, and I don't

2 know if you'll be audible to see them, but this past

3 Saturday I went down to the Holiday Manor, a building

4 that was controversial about being torn down, and what

5 we had was the USAR team from the City of Scranton

6 there, it's firemen from the City of Scranton, there

7 were firemen from the Allentown area and medical

8 personnel there, and I believe all of our firemen that

9 were there, if not most, were there on their own time,

10 they did not get paid for being there.

11 I believe most of their training they

12 do on their own time, they do not get paid for, so

13 we're certainly grateful for that. And I don't know --

14 I got a real education.

15 I don't know if you can see any of

16 these pictures or not, this is a, I don't know what you

17 call this, I think it's a wet saw is what they call it,

18 but anyway, they marked the area of a building that

19 they need to get into, and then they saw through it,

20 and what I didn't realize is you need to know a lot of

21 math to be able to do this, because they have to

22 calculate how much that's going to weigh, and this is

23 them pulling it out, the anchor bolts into the wall,

24 and they have to calculate the weight of this so when

25 they take it out, and, again, I'm sorry if you can't


1 see these, and this is them actually when they

2 extracted the piece of concrete, extremely thick.

3 And I'd just like to read a little bit

4 to you about what they did there. I thought I knew

5 quite a bit about the fire department, but I got an

6 education on Saturday. And if you could bear with me,

7 I'd like to read this.

8 The Pennsylvania Emergency Management

9 Agency, PEMA, has created a nine statewide regional

10 USAR team. The objective is to provide Pennsylvania

11 with a statewide urban search and rescue system that

12 incorporates rapid response and engagement of highly

13 trained and organized personnel through regionally

14 based operational elements.

15 The Scranton Bureau of Fire has entered

16 into an agreement with PEMA to participate with our

17 regional task force designated PA Company Three.

18 This 30 member team has a primary

19 response which covers an eight county radius in

20 Northeastern Pennsylvania.

21 Company Three can be dispatched to any

22 event in the state people when requested by PEMA. Ten

23 members of the Scranton Fire Bureau were selected to

24 the team. These firefighters spent over 200 hours

25 attending specialized training at the Philadelphia Fire


1 Academy.

2 This team will respond to incidents

3 involving natural disasters, chemical, biological,

4 radiological and explosive incidents.

5 The intent of this team is to designed

6 for blitz operations to achieve greatest success in the

7 first 24 hours of an incident.

8 We'd also like to thank, they fire

9 department wanted to thank Mr. Hartman from the

10 Tobyhanna Credit Union because he allowed them to use

11 this building.

12 And if I may, I'd just like to read the

13 list of the firefighters that were involved. And,

14 again, I believe most, if not all, their training they

15 did without being paid for.

16 Lieutenant Joe Snitser, he's an element

17 leader, Captain Jack Davis, Rescue Specialist,

18 Lieutenant Brian Scott, Rescue Specialist, Captain,

19 George Langan, Rescue Specialist, Lieutenant David

20 Applegate, Rescue Specialist, Private Dan Franz, Rescue

21 Specialist, Private Bob Soltowitz, I messed up your

22 name, Bob, Rescue Specialist, Private Mike Grimes,

23 Rescue Specialist, Private Robert Hannon, Recuse

24 Specialist, and Chauffeur Paul Sheerer, Search

25 Technician.


1 I wouldn't do them justice to try to

2 explain to you exactly what they did. It was a sight

3 to see. I will also leave these photos in City

4 Council. I think some of you might be interested to

5 take a look at. It's extremely interesting how they do

6 this and comforting knowing we have these guys, so I

7 want to thank them for inviting me and thank them for

8 donating their time to keep us safe. And that's all I

9 have thank you.

10 MS. GATELLI: Thank you. The only

11 thing I have is to add to Mrs. Evans' proclamation, we

12 also have a student at West Scranton High School who

13 was just honored by the Scranton School Board, he's a

14 football player and he's been accepted to Fordham

15 University, he was honored by the school board on

16 Tuesday evening, and I think that we should give him a

17 proclamation, also. His name is Asa Lucas. And we

18 hope that our wrestlers win. They're wrestling

19 tomorrow.

20 We're very close to the wrestlers,

21 because my assistant, Kathy Martin, her two nephews are

22 wrestlers, so they're always coming in the medical room

23 to get drinks of water and whatever they need, so, we

24 wish the wrestlers very much success on Friday.

25 And just one other thing, Kay, to see


1 if we can have the caucus with the KOZ for next week,

2 and then maybe Mr. Brown from The Times can put it in

3 the paper, because apparently some people don't know

4 that we're having a caucus, so if he can maybe keep in

5 touch with Kay or, Kay, you tell him, if he could

6 please put it in the paper at least two days before so

7 the public knows that we'll be here. And that's all I

8 have. Thank you.

9 MS. GARVEY: Okay. I'll start where I

10 left off before. 5-B, FOR INTRODUCTION - A RESOLUTION









19 MS. GATELLI: At this time I'll

20 entertain a motion that it be introduced into it's

21 proper committee.

22 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.


24 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All in

25 favor.


1 MS. EVANS: Aye.




5 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

6 have it and so moved.






12 PENNSYLVANIA, 18503 FOR THE SUM OF $8,000.00.

13 MS. GATELLI: You've heard reading by

14 title of Item 6-A, what is your pleasure?

15 MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item 6-A

16 pass reading by title.


18 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

19 those in favor, signify by saying aye.

20 MS. EVANS: Aye.




24 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

25 have it and so moved.







6 18504, FOR THE SUM OF $2,500.00.

7 MS. GATELLI: You've heard reading by

8 title of Item 6-B, what is your pleasure?

9 MR. COURTRIGHT: I move that Item 6-B

10 pass reading by title.


12 MS. GATELLI: On the question? All

13 those in favor.

14 MS. EVANS: Aye.




18 MS. GATELLI: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

19 have it and so moved.






25 FROM ACCOUNT NO. 01.401.15240.4299 (TAN SERIES B) AND


1 $48,284.94 FROM ACCOUNT NO. 01.401.15307.4299





6 MS. GATELLI: What is the

7 recommendation of the chairperson on finance?

8 MR. MCTIERNAN: I recommend final

9 passage of Item 7-A.

10 MR. COURTRIGHT: Seconded.

11 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Roll

12 call.

13 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

14 MS. EVANS: Yes.

15 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.


17 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.


19 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


21 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

22 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare

23 Item 7-A legally and lawfully adopted.











8 MS. GATELLI: What's the recommendation

9 of the chairperson for the committee on community

10 development?

11 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: As chairperson for

12 the committee on community development, I recommend

13 final passage of 7-B.

14 MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.

15 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Roll

16 call.

17 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

18 MS. EVANS: Yes.

19 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.


21 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.


23 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


25 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.


1 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare

2 Item 7-B legally and lawfully adopted.










12 MS. GATELLI: What's the recommendation

13 of the chairperson for the committee on community

14 development?

15 MS. NEALON FANUCCI: As chairperson for

16 the committee on community development, I recommend

17 final passage of Item 7-C.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.

19 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Roll

20 call.

21 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

22 MS. EVANS: Yes.

23 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.


25 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.



2 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


4 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

5 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare

6 Item 7-C legally and lawfully adopted.








14 MS. GATELLI: As chairperson for the

15 committee on rules, I recommend final passage of Item

16 7-D.

17 MR. COURTRIGHT: Seconded.

18 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Roll

19 call.

20 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

21 MS. EVANS: Yes.

22 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.


24 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.



1 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


3 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

4 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare

5 Item 7-D legally and lawfully adopted.








13 MS. GATELLI: As chairperson for the

14 committee on rules, I recommend passage of Item 7-E.

15 MR. COURTRIGHT: Seconded.

16 MS. GATELLI: On the question? Roll

17 call.

18 MS. EVANS: No. I want to thank you

19 and Mr. Johns for your wonderful dedicated service, and

20 I'm sure we all wish Ms. Reedy and Mr. Shumaker a very

21 successful future on the zoning board.

22 MS. GATELLI: I enjoyed zoning so much.

23 MS. EVANS: I know you did.

24 MS. GATELLI: It's very important in

25 the community, especially to keep out illegal


1 apartments and things of that nature. I did really

2 like it. Thank you for appointing me to that.

3 MS. EVANS: You're welcome. Roll call.

4 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.

5 MS. EVANS: Yes.

6 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Fanucci.


8 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McTiernan.


10 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.


12 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.

13 MS. GATELLI: Yes. I hereby declare

14 Item 7-E legally and lawfully adopted. Do we have a

15 motion so I can go to sleep?

16 MR. COURTRIGHT: I make a motion to

17 adjourn.


19 MS. GATELLI: Thank you very much.









2 C E R T I F I C A T E


4 I hereby certify that the proceedings and

5 evidence are contained fully and accurately in the

6 notes taken by me on the hearing of the above cause and

7 that this copy is a correct transcript of the same

8 to the best of my ability.



12 Official Court Reporter