5 Held:

6 Thursday, October 6, 2005



9 Time:

10 7:00 p.m.



13 Location:

14 Council Chambers

15 Scranton City Hall

16 340 North Washington Avenue

17 Scranton, Pennsylvania






23 Lisa M. Graff, RPR

24 Court Reporter





























1 MR. DIBILEO: Okay. Please stand for

2 the Pledge Of Allegiance. Please remain standing for a

3 short prayer. If we can have a roll call, please, Kay.

4 MS. GARVEY: Mr. McTiernan.

5 MR. McTIERNAN: Here.

6 MS. GARVEY: Mrs. Evans.

7 MS. EVANS: Here.

8 MS. GARVEY: Mr. Pocius.

9 MR. POCIUS: Here.

10 MS. GARVEY: Mr. Courtright.


12 MS. GARVEY: Mr. DiBileo.

13 MR. DIBILEO: Here. And, Mr. Walsh if

14 we may dispense with the reading of the minutes,

15 please.

16 MR. WALSH: Certainly. Third order.


18 OCTOBER 12, 2005.

19 MR. DIBILEO: Are there any comments on

20 3-A? If not, received and filed.



23 MR. DIBILEO: Are there any comments on

24 3-B? If not, received and filed.

25 MR. POCIUS: Mr. President, at this


1 time I'd like to make a motion that we send said

2 petition to MEM for further study and report back to

3 Council.


5 MR. DIBILEO: We have a motion on the

6 floor and a second. On the question? All those in

7 favor, signify by saying aye.

8 MS. EVANS: Aye.


10 MR. POCIUS: Aye.


12 MR. DIBILEO: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

13 have it and so moved.

14 MR. WALSH: 3-C, Clerk's notes.

15 MR. DIBILEO: Mr. Saunders, if you

16 would, please.

17 MR. SAUNDERS: Yes, Mr. President.

18 1316 South Irving Avenue, last week Councilwoman Evans

19 asked about it. An update from DPW, the work order was

20 received a week and a half ago, they're working on the

21 crosswalks and the banners right now. They're down to

22 two people, one of them is sick and out of work.

23 They said they will be to that as soon

24 as they could, and they're on the crosswalks and

25 banners right now.


1 Don McKeon called me about Price Rite

2 on Luzerne Street, also Councilwoman Evans asked about

3 this, Price Rite has started, the work is started over

4 there.

5 MS. EVANS: Excellent.

6 MR. SAUNDERS: And that is all I have,

7 Mr. President.

8 MR. DIBILEO: Okay, Mr. Saunders. And

9 if you would, we will be entertaining the Community

10 Development Block Grant funding as of starting next

11 week.


13 MR. DIBILEO: And I'd like to ask if

14 you can get a copy of all applicants that applied for

15 CDBG funding for City Council, please.

16 MR. SAUNDERS: I will.

17 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you very much. Is

18 that it, Mr. Walsh?

19 MR. WALSH: That's all in third order,

20 Mr. President.

21 MR. DIBILEO: And I have a sign-in

22 sheet for citizens participation. I'd like to say that

23 we welcome all members in our audience and all speakers

24 and I ask audience members to please refrain from

25 speaking while someone is at the podium, and also I ask


1 that speakers not go beyond five minutes and to please

2 refrain from making remarks of a personal nature.

3 I ask our solicitor, Mark Walsh, to aid

4 me in determining when remarks go over the line of

5 becoming personal, and I would ask Mr. Walsh to just

6 jump right in at that point in time.

7 MR. WALSH: I'll attempt to do that.

8 MR. DIBILEO: Thank very much.

9 Appreciate that. And there's been some negative

10 newspaper articles and cartoons recently aimed at City

11 Council speakers, and I would ask that if you have a

12 problem with that, to please write a letter to the

13 editor, as opposed to airing all of your concerns here

14 at City Council meetings.

15 And with that said, the first speaker

16 on the list is Terry Osborne.

17 MR. OSBORNE: I come here tonight as

18 one of the employee representatives to the city's

19 composite pension board, I actually serve as president

20 of that board.

21 We had dropped off earlier this week a

22 letter to the mayor and also a letter to City Council.

23 I think most of you might be aware, in January of 2003,

24 the mayor put additional members on our pension board

25 which virtually would give him control of our pension


1 board. The employees were not happy at that time and

2 we were pretty much frightened by it and we seemed to

3 think that over the course of time, a lot of our fears

4 have come true.

5 We had grieved that, and on August 29,

6 Robert Light sent down an arbitration decision, which

7 was reported at the firemen's board that it was

8 appealed, but as of today, Attorney Jennings still has

9 not received an appeal, but the award came down saying

10 this, In order to remedy the violation, the city shall

11 immediately advise the union in writing that the six

12 members to the fire board and additional members to the

13 joint board are removed.

14 The city shall cease and desist from

15 any further unilateal modification of the composition

16 of the fire board and the joint board, and also, which

17 is very unusual many times in arbitration, the

18 arbitrator ruled that because it is unilateral

19 modification was without a doubt bad faith and ordered

20 the city to pay all costs incurred in the proceedings,

21 including all the attorneys fees.

22 We have asked the mayor to immediately

23 remove these people, if he has in fact not appealed,

24 and we have also asked City Council to rescind File of

25 Council No. 113 of 2003, that is the ordinance that put


1 these people on our board. It was Council action that

2 put it there, and I think ut could be Council action to

3 remove these people.

4 The reason we want this done is it is

5 an employee's pension fund. You know, not to arrange

6 in history, five years ago, now Mayor Doherty, then

7 Finance Chairman Doherty, came up with a plan to take

8 the pension funds away from the city pension board.

9 We had recommended that we would rehire

10 Mellon Bank, who had been in the top ten percent

11 nationally with our investments.

12 At that time there was a plan put forth

13 that did give some upfront money to the city, for which

14 an investment firm would be hired to take over the

15 plans. Our board opposed that move, we voted it down.

16 Our recommendation was set aside by

17 Council. Again, Mr. Doherty acted as the finance

18 chairman. In fact, I've given you copies of minutes

19 from 2001 where Mr. Doherty spoke about that deal

20 saying that he, Councilman Hazzouri and Councilman

21 Pocius had met for days in Attorney Hickey's office.

22 I'm not an attorney standing here, but

23 to me, serving on several city boards, that's a blatant

24 violation of the Sunshine Law for a majority of Council

25 to meet away from chambers in a meeting not advertised.


1 That in itself violated the Sunshine Law, but we were

2 left with that deal as the pension board.

3 What we soon come to find out with that

4 plan was when the mayor's campaign finances were put

5 out for 2001, associates of that firm and relatives

6 contributed over $5,000 to the mayor's campaign at that

7 time, okay? So, we were not appreciative of that, that

8 our fund was used to solicit campaign donations.

9 We did receive approximately seven, a

10 little over $7 million upfront from that company. The

11 fees paid back in 2001 were approximately $445,000;

12 '02, $724,000, and in '03, when the mayor did his bond,

13 they were paid back $9.2 million in fees and interest.

14 That's over a $10 million return in less than three

15 years on a $7 million upfront fee.

16 When we handled the pension funds, as I

17 said, we were in the top ten percent. Our funds had

18 done so well, that after 15 years of this --

19 Act 205 has been in since 1985.

20 Since we had done so well with our

21 investments, the city's MMO, which is the money the

22 city has to put in, the money the taxpayers put in,

23 went down as low as $552,000 in calendar year '03,

24 because there was credit given for how well the pension

25 funds had done.


1 Because of not as good returns, and

2 also obviously because of some market conditions out

3 there, in 2004, the money the taxpayers have to put in

4 is back up to $2.5 million, and is probably going to

5 resemble that amount this year again.

6 This year, and I know John was on, I

7 think, maybe a couple years ago, we actually had a

8 consultant come in who said that the investment group

9 was in the 92nd percentile at that time, that our

10 returns --

11 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mr. Osborne, can I ask

12 two questions, one of you, and one of Mr. Walsh?

13 Evidently as time went on, the fund wasn't doing well,

14 why didn't you just vote to switch to a different

15 company?

16 MR. OSBORNE: In fact, in 2003, that

17 did come up, and actually the first one to make the

18 move was the mayor, and, again, we did not appreciate

19 -- as a matter of fact, it was Councilman Hazzouri here

20 at a meeting made a motion to put on RFP.

21 Never before in the history of the fund

22 since I've been on it since '84 was that done, but the

23 difficulty we ran into, and I'm going to be honest with

24 you, was Kevin Murphy as President of Council, who came

25 to our aide an assisted us in stopping that, but what


1 we came to find out at that time was most city

2 contracts, if not all, have a 60 to 90-day escape

3 clause, if somebody is not happy with a service being

4 performed, we can get out, but unfortunately council

5 solicitor at that time, Gene Hickey, wrote this

6 contract, and the part that killed us back then I have

7 with me, the terms said, For a period of no less than

8 five years commencing December 2000, then the contract

9 may be terminated after 60 to 90 days, so we were stuck

10 with this contract.

11 And, again, the company -- the local

12 company who had this company or who had the deal, they

13 came in and put, you know, put back their best offer to

14 the city. We were disappointed that the city used the

15 pension funds.

16 You know, we come to have a working

17 relationship with the guy who was currently there, but,

18 again, we were very disappointed that the mayor, then

19 Council finance chairman, had used this, in our mind,

20 to solicit campaign funds.

21 This year we did in fact -- another

22 person sent by the mayor, I'm sure you guys are

23 probably familiar with, Public Finance Management,

24 they're the ones, the accountants the mayor uses at our

25 arbitrations and everything else.


1 They had one of their guys come in by

2 the name of John Spagnola, and that's the second page I

3 gave you, who reported to our board that over the life

4 of this thing, we're on average, we're 1.8 behind the

5 median, that's the middle of the road pension funds.

6 You can see a little handwritten note

7 there, Mr. Spagnola told us that's approximately $4.5

8 to $5 million in lower earnings that we've received

9 over the course of this contract.

10 So, again, we're here to ask you, if

11 possible, I'm sure it's up to --

12 MS. EVANS: Mr. Walsh, could you look

13 into drawing up that legislation for next week in which

14 Council could take a vote on rescinding File of Council

15 -- what is the number?

16 MR. OSBORNE: It's in the documents

17 that I dropped off at Council the other day.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: That would be my

19 question, could we do that? Are we within our rights

20 to do that?

21 MR. WALSH: This is the first time that

22 I'm really hearing about all of this type of

23 information. I haven't seen the contracts, nor have I

24 been privy to some of the dealings that Mr. Osborne is

25 talking about, so not having seen any of the


1 documentation, I really can't comment on it.

2 I also haven't seen the legislation

3 that approved it, so next week might be overly

4 optimistic, to be honest with you, but I have no

5 problem meeting with Mr. Osborne this week, he seems to

6 be a wealth of information, sitting with him, going

7 over everything with him and reporting to the Council.

8 And if it's possible to draft the

9 legislation by next week, I can try and do that, but I

10 don't want the Council to be overly optimistic in light

11 of all of the documentation that Mr. Osborne is

12 referring to, but I will of course get right on it.

13 In fact, Mr. Osborne, if you have time

14 this week, I'll make myself available to meet with you

15 at any time.

16 MR. OSBORNE: And just to clear one

17 thing you said, Mark, we're not looking to terminate

18 the contract, the contract is over December 31. We are

19 currently right now going through the process --

20 MR. WALSH: You're looking to change

21 the consistency of the board.

22 MR. OSBORNE: Yes. Our feeling is

23 Act 205 dictated what the board should be, that being

24 two police, two fire, two non-uniform, president of

25 Council by virtue of office, mayor by virtue of office


1 and city controller by virtue of office.

2 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mr. Osborne, can I

3 ask you a question? If the arbitrator ruled, why do we

4 need to do it? Don't they just have to do it because

5 he --

6 MR. OSBORNE: Well, what happened was,

7 Lisa Moran, who was the plan coordinator, reported at

8 the firefighter board. I serve on the composite board,

9 we invest the money.

10 Our firefighter board meets at eight

11 o'clock in the morning. Mrs. Moran came to that

12 meeting and reported at the meet that the city had in

13 fact appealed in a timely fashion the arbitrator's

14 ruling, which I'm sure Mark will agree, makes

15 everything status quo.

16 At our meeting Mrs. Moran was not

17 there, but based on the fact that it was reported they

18 had appealed, all the members continued to sit at our

19 meeting.

20 But, again, because we are currently

21 going through our RFP process, which is going to be the

22 investments for the next five years --

23 MS. EVANS: Time is of the essence.

24 MR. OSBORNE: We would like this to be

25 purified, for lack of a better description, and then


1 put back to the employee representatives and the three

2 office holders that are there.

3 Because you know what, it's real simple

4 to us, the bottom line on what happened here is, the

5 company who puts forth their business plan, the city

6 accepted that business plan, not the pension funds,

7 they returned themselves about $3 million in about a

8 three-year period, not bad.

9 The mayor returned himself about $5,000

10 in political contribution. Our pension fund has now,

11 according to PFM, the mayor's new accountants who came

12 to town, we've lost 5 million compared to the average

13 pension fund out there.

14 So, again, we are going through the RFP

15 right now. We will e making a recommendation to you

16 people as to the new money invested.

17 MR. COURTRIGHT: All right. I just --

18 because I don't understand all of it, so I'm just

19 trying to ask some questions so I can get up to speed

20 here.

21 MR. OSBORNE: Sure.

22 MS. EVANS: Mr. Osborne, then you were

23 not notified that the city has appealed; is that

24 correct?

25 MR. OSBORNE: I did not receive any


1 official notification, and as I said, to prepare to

2 come here tonight, I put a call in --

3 MR. COURTRIGHT: Maybe Mr. Walsh can

4 ask Mr. Farrell if they've appealed it.

5 MR. WALSH: I would be happy to meet

6 with both Mr. Osborne and check into that issue, and

7 Mr. Osborne and I can discuss that issue when we sit

8 down and I'll have a clearer understanding of it and

9 act in accordance with Council's direction.

10 MR. DIBILEO: In the interest of time,

11 I'd like to ask you to do that, Mr. Walsh.

12 MR. WALSH: Absolutely.

13 MR. DIBILEO: And we'll take it from

14 there.

15 MS. EVANS: What number arbitration is

16 this now that the city has lost? Is this the 5th or

17 the 6th?

18 MR. OSBORNE: You know what, I think

19 Dave Gervasi is here, he could probably answer that. I

20 mean, in all honesty I was the union president years

21 ago. My dedication of late is really to this pension

22 fund. I've been on it since 1984.

23 And, you know, to be honest, in light

24 of the newspaper articles and all of that, I really

25 don't come here to bash the administration, that type


1 stuff, but I have to be honest, I have been hear since

2 Mayor McNulty on this pension fund, he's never come

3 approaching us about removing, putting people in,

4 Mayor Wenzel never did it, Mayor Connors never did it.

5 With John Spagnola this year, this is

6 the mayor's third attempt at coming after our pension

7 fund, and it's got to stop.

8 MS. EVANS: So, it would appear anyway,

9 was a blatant attempt to control the board in order to

10 hire a firm that made political contributions to a

11 campaign?

12 MR. OSBORNE: To us employees, yes.

13 MS. EVANS: And in the process, the

14 city has lost money and it's cost the taxpayers money?

15 MR. OSBORNE: Well, as I said, when we

16 had Mellon Bank, we were in the top percent, nationally

17 in the top ten percent. And, again, the taxpayers got

18 a great credit when that MMO, as well as $550,000, that

19 was incredible, and now with his, it's back up over $2

20 million again that the city has to contribute to our

21 fund.

22 MS. EVANS: We'll get on this

23 immediately, Mr. Osborne. Thank you.

24 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Mr. Osborne.

25 And, Mr. Walsh, if you would, please, meet with Mr.


1 Osborne. Thank you.

2 MR. WALSH: No problem.

3 MR. DIBILEO: John Gadomski.

4 MR. GADOMSKI: Good evening. I'm John

5 Gadomski, Council Representative for The Greater

6 Pennsylvania Regional Council of Carpenters, also Local

7 645 at 314 Pear Street, that's where my office is.

8 I represent over 1,032 members. I'm

9 here this evening to discuss CRF, Community

10 Reinvestment Fund. It's very important to my members

11 and the unions as a whole.

12 Many carpenters live, work and spend

13 their money in this city, and they like it that way,

14 and the more money we can pump into the City of

15 Scranton, the more jobs we have, and we don't to go to

16 New York City to work when things are slow, we don't

17 have to go to New Jersey or Baltimore of Philadelphia.

18 As you walk through the city, or even

19 drive through it, you can see construction at all

20 corners, whether it's a warehouse, whether it's a

21 parking garage, retail shop, there's a lot going on.

22 We haven't seen this much going on in

23 the past 40 years, the economic development in this

24 city, and it's important that we keep this going on,

25 because if you're a businessman and you come to a city


1 and there's no building going, you're not going to

2 invest in that city, but they're going invest in this

3 city, because it's moving. So, that $5 million that we

4 can reinvest will produce more work and keep our

5 members working.

6 In the last four years, city economic

7 development efforts produced $250 million in new

8 development, created 3,300 jobs, and probably more.

9 So, before I close, I'd just like to

10 ask the majority that voted against the CRF to

11 reconsider. Put this back on the floor again and vote

12 for it, because it's jobs, good union jobs, keeps

13 people working with good benefits, and the better we

14 have good work, the better off we are. So, thank you

15 and God Bless. Thank you for your time.

16 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Mr. Gadomski.

17 Jim Stucker.

18 MR. STUCKER: How are you doing, Mr.

19 DiBileo?

20 MR. DIBILEO: How are you, Jim?

21 MR. STUCKER: Good, good. We want more

22 police, we want more fire company, fire guys who work

23 for the fire company of Scranton, we want some the

24 holes fixed on the road, the holes are getting bad at a

25 lot of places like Main Avenue, Parrot Avenue, Luzerne


1 Street, there's a lot of holes up there, Parrot Avenue,

2 there's a lot of holes. Pat told me to tell you he's

3 voting for you.

4 MR. DIBILEO: Oh, thanks, Jim.

5 MR. STUCKER: I know Pat talked to you

6 and he met Tom.

7 MR. DIBILEO: Okay.

8 MR. STUCKER: So, all them holes, them

9 holes has got to be fixed.

10 MR. DIBILEO: Jim, I totally understand

11 your concerns and we appreciate you coming here every

12 week to remind us about them, and I know Mr. Saunders

13 is working hard to try to resolve them for you, and I'm

14 sure that -- do you have anything new for Mr. Stucker,

15 Mr. Saunders?

16 MR. SAUNDERS: No. From the last one

17 that we sent out, I haven't received anything back on

18 that yet.

19 MR. DIBILEO: Okay. Would you please

20 stay on it as best you can? And, Jim, again, we

21 appreciate you reminding us of these concerns and

22 greatly appreciate it. Thank you very much.

23 MR. STUCKER: What about that Colt's

24 Company bus stop sign across from the old -- where the

25 old bank used to be on Main Avenue, right around the


1 corner, they need a sign there for a stop for buses.

2 MR. DIBILEO: What is it, Jim, a stop

3 sign?

4 MR. STUCKER: Not a stop sign. We need

5 a -- there's a stop sign there. We need a bus sign.

6 MR. DIBILEO: Oh, a bus stop sign.

7 MR. STUCKER: Yeah.

8 MR. DIBILEO: Okay.

9 MR. STUCKER: I don't know --

10 MR. DIBILEO: I see Jay writing right

11 now, so we're going to take care of that, too, Jim.

12 Thank you very much.

13 MR. STUCKER: I was here last Thursday

14 and I mentioned about it, nothing happened. I didn't

15 see anybody out there.

16 MR. DIBILEO: Appreciate it, Jim.

17 We'll get on it as best we could. Thank you very much.

18 MR. STUCKER: All right.

19 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you.

20 MR. STUCKER: And my landlord's name is

21 Frank, he's not selling the building. He's not

22 selling. He's going to add on the back of it, so it's

23 going to be a big building.

24 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Jim.

25 MR. STUCKER: And Pat told me to tell


1 you we're going to vote for you.

2 MR. DIBILEO: All right, Jim. Thank

3 you, Jimmy. Doug Miller.

4 MR. MILLER: Good evening, Council.

5 Doug Miller. I wanted to get right on to this speed

6 bump issue that I had, I brought it up three weeks ago,

7 is there any updates on that?

8 MR. DIBILEO: Let me refer to Mr.

9 Saunders. I know speed bumps, Doug, are often frowned

10 upon because they could become a vehicular problem

11 trying to lose control hitting a speed bump, but Mr.

12 Saunders --

13 MR. SAUNDERS: No. Give me an update

14 on that, what street is that?

15 MR. MILLER: At the end of West Locust.

16 MR. COURTRIGHT: You know, Jay, I think

17 the only place in the city where the city has put speed

18 bumps is probably behind Smith's Restaurant in South

19 Side. I don't think there's anywhere else in the city

20 that we have speed bumps.

21 I think, as Mr. DiBileo said, I think

22 they frown on them. So, maybe we can get an official

23 answer from Mr. Parker for you.

24 MR. MILLER: Okay. Thank you. I have

25 a concern with Stipp Court, it really needs to be


1 paved. I've had citizens over there telling me they've

2 been there for 20 years, 30 years, and it hasn't been

3 paved that long, so that needs to be looked into.

4 MR. POCIUS: What block? Stipp Court

5 runs a long way.

6 MR. MILLER: Yeah, it does. I think

7 the whole court.

8 MR. POCIUS: You could be talking a

9 couple miles there. Just get the block, just call in

10 the block.

11 MR. DIBILEO: Doug, let us know where

12 you think are the worst areas there and we'll see if we

13 can put that request in.

14 MR. POCIUS: Yeah, between street to

15 street.

16 MR. MILLER: And I wanted to remind

17 Council next week is the mayoral debate at West

18 Scranton High School. It's closed to the public, but

19 that will be on 61.

20 The question I had, though, for

21 Channel 61 is I was reading in The Times the other day

22 how there was going to be a debate at Scranton High

23 School October 26 and 27, and Channel 61 is

24 broadcasting that debate, but I thought they didn't

25 move equipment around, but they're doing this one. I


1 didn't think they bring equipment around.

2 MR. DIBILEO: I know that the one at

3 Scranton High School will be televised because they did

4 so in May, the end of April, and are you saying that

5 the debate at the West Scranton High School will or

6 will not be?

7 MR. MILLER: Oh, it will be, but my

8 question was, Channel 61 said they could go there and

9 televise it, they wanted us to it tape it and then send

10 it into them. I don't know why they can't just come to

11 the school.

12 MR. DIBILEO: It's probably quite an

13 undertaking, and I would imagine that probably in order

14 to move that equipment, more than once might be a

15 problem, Doug. I don't know. But we certainly --

16 would you ask them if they could tape that debate live,

17 Mr. Saunders?

18 MR. SAUNDERS: What's the date on that?

19 MR. MILLER: October 12, next

20 Wednesday.

21 MR. DIBILEO: Wednesday, October 12.

22 What time of the day is that?

23 MR. MILLER: One o'clock.

24 MR. DIBILEO: One o'clock?

25 MR. MILLER: Yeah.


1 MR. DIBILEO: Okay. Thank you.

2 MR. MILLER: The last thing I have is

3 regarding the article Sunday, The Times is trying to

4 say everybody bashes the mayor, but that's not true,

5 because people come up here every week and bash members

6 of City Council.

7 As a young man, I have become better

8 informed in city government by watching Channel 61,

9 rather than reading The Times that doesn't give you all

10 the factual information that you see here on Channel

11 61. And that's all I have tonight. Thank you.

12 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you. Doug, I think

13 you bring up a good point there. I think that a lot

14 more young people are more involved in government and

15 involved in what their elected officials do because of

16 the fact that Channel 61 is televising public meetings.

17 I know that I as a young man did not

18 pay much attention, and I didn't have meetings

19 televised at that time, and that's probably a big

20 reason why.

21 I know that your mom, you may not know

22 this, your mom sent me an e-mail, and she thought the

23 fact that Channel 61 televised the meeting is the

24 reason why you're so informed and why you're stepping

25 up to the podium like you are, and she's very proud of


1 you, and I told her that she should be. Appreciate

2 your involvement.

3 MR. MILLER: Thank you.

4 MR. DIBILEO: Bob Bolus.

5 MR. BOLUS: Good evening, Bob Bolus,

6 Scranton.

7 MR. DIBILEO: Good evening.

8 MR. BOLUS: You know, I kind of get

9 tire of in the sense coming here and listening to the

10 unions complaining about the CRF and creating the jobs

11 and all, I'd like to know where the 3,000 employed

12 people are already in the city and why they're 1,000

13 people aren't working already and they got time to do

14 something else that isn't even on the drawing board.

15 As a business, you know, I'm not

16 against unions in any way, shape or form, but what I am

17 against is people coming here time after time trying to

18 strong arm the council and the taxpayers in this city

19 to support them.

20 And look around the country, people are

21 being laid off every single day. I just came back from

22 Cleveland an hour ago, and go look at how that's

23 growing there, and they're not standing there arguing

24 about it, they're making something happen.

25 If you want to see something happen


1 with the unions, I never saw them when it came time to

2 argue about the golf course, I never saw them argue

3 about where the DPW Complex went that we haven't even

4 been paid for yet, and on and on.

5 And you guys stand out here complaining

6 every day there's no free ride, I don't have one, and I

7 don't have think this Council or anybody else should

8 give you one either. We have to work, and so do you,

9 and we have to go make it happen, and so do you.

10 You know, if the unions are so

11 concerned, why don't they stand up here and say, Let's

12 help the tax base, let's push Council to install a fee

13 or the Mayor on the KOZs or non-profits, let's increase

14 our tax base, let's make everybody pay, not just a

15 handful of us. I don't see you doing that.

16 I don't see you asking what Chris

17 Doherty did with his campaign finances and ask him, did

18 you or did you not take money from your corporation? I

19 don't see you asking those questions.

20 And tonight I'd like to ask The

21 Scranton Times, ask that question for us and bring us

22 an answer back. Let us read it in the paper.

23 You know, I mean, it just gets on and

24 on. We have a paper here tonight that I just happened

25 to grab, Concerned republicans are rallying around


1 Chris Doherty.

2 Well, I don't know which ones they are,

3 but I sure know as heck I'm not rallying around Chris

4 Doherty. And I've spoke at this podium -- and I've

5 ran against him in the past, but I remember in the past

6 when there was a five-thing that was written when we

7 were running as candidates, and I believe Chris Doherty

8 made some kind of a statement, I don't want to be

9 misquoted, but it was something to the effect that, you

10 know, it's not a crime or a felony if you're a

11 Republican to be stupid or something like that.

12 So, you know, guys, remember what he

13 said about you in the past, so you jump around his

14 bandwagon, because I sure and heck know we're not.

15 Mr. Pocius, in The Times, in the

16 article Sunday, which I guess was great reading for

17 everybody, it kind of complained that, you know, you

18 don't know why you're here and you're glad you lost and

19 all that and everything else, and maybe it was for the

20 best, but I don't think The Almighty had anything to do

21 with it, I think the voters of Scranton decided that

22 point.

23 Okay. And, you know, people don't want

24 to represent people here and we make comments about the

25 people that come here. You know, I have a lot of


1 comments and Mr. McTiernan said, Jeez, you know, some

2 things could be personal, he didn't really like to hear

3 that, believe me, I'd love to make this a personal

4 issue sometimes of the city, but I don't do that, I try

5 and deal with the facts, because everybody could throw

6 dirt.

7 The bottom line is, the bottom line in

8 the city, we're in trouble. And it all started back

9 when you were Council President, when Mr. Murphy was

10 Council President, when there was no TV back then, when

11 the gavel came down.

12 Where if everybody recalls in that

13 corner was an armed guard, a Scranton Policeman, with a

14 gun and handcuffs to drag you out of here.

15 And I'll tell you a story, Mr.

16 McTiernan, there was a guy who came here and he spoke

17 out at this podium, and he was arrested for exercising

18 his rights, and the past administration's cronies when

19 Kevin Murphy was here and Hazzouri.

20 I know that man, that was me. But in

21 this Council chamber there is no armed guard, there are

22 no gestapo tactics. People got a right to speak. I

23 thank you, Mr. DiBileo, and the members of Council that

24 have allowed that to happen.

25 Let's speak a little about the policies


1 in this city that have gone on under the rule of this

2 mayor. You know, everybody complained -- we he sat on

3 Council, five minutes was the rule, well, Gene Hickey

4 come in here complaining about my five minutes, I was

5 over maybe 30 seconds, he spoke for almost 14 minutes,

6 Yet he didn't get gaveled out.

7 But when the gentleman from the Fred,

8 whatever his last name was here, to discuss the

9 distressed status, you never said amend the rules.

10 Fred was gaveled out, his five minutes were up, and he

11 sat down. We were willing to give up our time, because

12 we wanted to learn about this city. It didn't work

13 that way.

14 And Mr. Hickey changed the rules. He

15 bent the rules to allow Mr. Pocius to sit at this

16 Council and violated the Sunshine Act that we won in

17 court and could have removed him, but the people have

18 done that. We didn't have to spend any more money, but

19 we were right in this city and we did it.

20 So, Mr. Pocius, when you leave, either

21 resign, if you don't like it, but when you go, leave

22 the pension behind. Thank you.

23 MR. POCIUS: Thank you, Mr. Bolus.

24 Thank you.

25 MR. BOLUS: You're welcome.


1 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you. Andy

2 Sbaraglia.

3 MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia, citizen

4 of Scranton. Fellow Scrantonians, we have the public

5 notice on this block grants that came out, I've

6 outlined a few things, maybe you can get some answers

7 for me for the next meeting or so forth and so on.

8 Now, the City of Scranton, OECD, has

9 put aside $330,000, but paid us 108 Loan to HUD, and

10 they have enough nerve to say unplanned, but isn't it

11 true they've been paying it for the last three years?

12 MS. EVANS: You know, Andy, it appears

13 that way, but, again, I had two conflicting stories

14 regarding those payments to HUD.

15 On the one hand, it was reported in the

16 newspaper that Mr. Doherty stated one payment had been

17 made, on the other hand, I had a letter from Ms.

18 Hailstone, head of OECD, that stated six payments had

19 been made by the city, and I never got to the bottom of

20 that. To this day, I never had a clarification on

21 that. I don't know which is true, which is false, but

22 I do believe the city, whether it is a number of

23 payments or one payment, the city is making payments on

24 that loan to HUD.

25 Okay. We're going to make the $330,000


1 payment because we're good fellows, we're good fellows,

2 we're going to give them a $400,000 tax break because

3 we're better fellows, and I don't know what the Parking

4 Authority, if they're going to go through with that 175

5 spaces of free parking, which make me the best fellows

6 in town.

7 Gentlemen, and ladies, this is not very

8 good for the taxpayers. I'm not going to dwell on it,

9 because it's out there, people got to know what's

10 really going on in the city.

11 This money could have been used for

12 roads, it could have been used for sidewalks, it could

13 have been used for a lot of things, but instead it's

14 going to this hotel that's probably going to be just as

15 beneficial to the taxpayers as the ski slope and the

16 ballpark, both of them are drains, and this is -- all

17 it's going to do is drain us.

18 Now, this other loan in here, I didn't

19 know much about it, plan repayment of Section 8 Loan,

20 Scranton Mall Association, we have, for some reason, we

21 have to pay 20 percent of a loan that we made with HUD

22 for the Scranton Mall Associations?

23 They claim they have to pay $170,000,

24 so that loan probably is a good-sized loan, because I

25 don't know if this is a yearly loan, a one-shot deal or


1 what.

2 But I would like to know if this is

3 one-shot or is this going to go on continually draining

4 more money from the city for the mall, which Boscov's

5 sold the leases are $40 million. Now, you tell me why

6 if you can sell your leases for $40 million, you cannot

7 pay off your loans. And that's in your documents, too.

8 MR. DIBILEO: Mr. Sbaraglia, I'm going

9 to ask Mr. Saunders if he could get answers to your

10 questions regarding that particular item. Jay, are you

11 --


13 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you.

14 MR. SBARAGLIA: And of course we're

15 still pouring money into that garage on Lackawanna

16 Avenue. Another big chunk of our OECD money is going

17 for that garage. That garage will never pay for

18 itself, but it's going to come from OECD money, which

19 in turn deprives the city again.

20 No wonder why we haven't got a new

21 sidewalk in the city for 100 years, there's no reason

22 to give a sidewalk, you're giving it to everywhere

23 else.

24 Before I run out of my one minute's

25 time that I have left, the city has a Home Investment


1 Partnership Program, I don't know if it's too late to

2 get in any of your requests, but they had something

3 like $665,000 in this account for home improvements

4 one-time home buyers, so many of them flood victims, if

5 you can go down there and cry the house down, maybe you

6 can get your little hands on some of that money before

7 it dwindles somewhere else, because they're noted for

8 transferring money from one project to another project.

9 And them people can use help. I

10 remember somebody coming in here and saying their

11 foundation was ruined, and they had to pay, like,

12 $20,000 to fix their house up. And here is the money

13 sitting down there. If it can't go to our flood

14 victims, who can it go to? Thank you.

15 MR. DIBILEO: Ozzie Quinn.

16 MR. QUINN: Ozzie Quinn, property owner

17 in Scranton. Good evening, Mr. President, Honorable

18 Council and staff, I'm here tonight as a delegate of

19 the Scranton taxpayers of Lackawanna County, and I

20 think I'll be coming here regularly until the budget is

21 adopted, and it appears that Mayor Doherty is flirting

22 with a tax increase because of the high indebtedness

23 that he owes over $198 million, okay?

24 And is the mayor has a history of

25 wanting to raise taxes. If I may, I want to just quote


1 something from an article that was in The Scranton

2 Times Tribune, and it was written by Borys Krawczeniuk

3 on April 21, or April 22, 2001.

4 I'm not going to take it out of

5 context, but I'm going to take a paragraph, it says, A

6 little more than -- this is Mayor Doherty, a little

7 more than a month in office after a financial briefing

8 by city administrator John Cawley, Mr. Doherty declared

9 we're in debt row.

10 By the end of that year, the city was

11 in debt more than $6.7 million. State office officials

12 had sanctioned the city by failing to follow its

13 financial recovery, and two straight property tax hikes

14 were on the horizon.

15 If we're on debt row then, then we're

16 in potter field now, because that was $6.7 million, and

17 now four years later we have $198 million.

18 Let me go on. Mr. Doherty voted for

19 higher taxes. In 1999, he voted to raise property

20 taxes, instead of the wage and mercantile increases

21 Mr. Connors wanted.

22 A year later he voted for the large

23 property tax and garbage fee increases proposed by Mr.

24 Connors. Also, when the county raised this year

25 48.4 percent, the only people that raised objection to


1 it was the three Councilmen here, and Mr. Doherty did

2 not make one objection to the county taxing the city

3 residents, and I think that's a shame.

4 And they go on to say that PEL, they

5 declared us a distressed city, Pennsylvania Economy

6 League, and I believe there's an employee of PEL in

7 this building that has an office here, and I don't

8 know, but he must be sleeping at the switch, because of

9 the fact that if we're distressed because of financial

10 straits, okay, how can he let this continue to $198

11 million?

12 MR. DIBILEO: Mr. Quinn, let me say

13 that you referred the $6.7 million figure to the $198

14 million figure, I think the $198 million figure you're

15 using is long-term debt using all the authorities, and

16 the $6.7, I think, was considered -- would be

17 considered short-term debt to balance that year's

18 budget.

19 So, I think that there was not a fair

20 comparison to use those two figures.

21 MR. QUINN: What was the long-term debt

22 at that time?

23 MR. DIBILEO: I am not certain what

24 that might have been. I know it wasn't what it was

25 today, but it was probably something a lot more than


1 $6.7 million.

2 MR. QUINN: Okay. I apologize if I was

3 wrong on that. Okay. As I said, PEL is in the

4 building here and PEL is not really, I don't think,

5 monitoring the finances that's going on in this

6 building, all right?

7 There's some nay sayers out there that

8 say that the three city authorities should not be

9 included in the indebtedness.

10 Let me refer to the Rossi audit, which

11 I have, okay, and that says specifically -- there's no

12 asterisk or whatever that the authorities are a part of

13 the long-term debt, okay?

14 And let me go on to say that the

15 Scranton Redevelopment Authority has no revenue

16 whatsoever. It gets its revenue from the sale of

17 property that you people okay and it keeps that

18 revenue. I don't know if you ever passed an ordinance

19 for allowing them to keep that revenue.

20 And the only other revenue it receives

21 is from OECD, and that -- they were able under the

22 Urban Redevelopment Law, they were formed by Council

23 and they can be removed by Council, okay? Council is

24 the only one, okay?

25 And they amassed a debt of $13 million,


1 so you cannot remove them. Also, the Sewer Authority,

2 we must pay off the $4 million before we can take over

3 back the DPW building.

4 The city used the balance in 2004 by

5 the means of the Scranton Authority to construct that.

6 I mean, here we are. We're at the hands of the Sewer

7 Authority.

8 The Parking Authority, you know, it's

9 given 175 spaces and it doesn't have -- it's given up

10 parking meters downtown, and I wonder if they're going

11 to be able to pay their debt of $15 million.

12 The cold facts, the city's population

13 is declining. The 2000 census had the city's

14 population at $76,415.

15 According to the Pennsylvania Data

16 Center Today, as of July 1, 2004, the population is

17 estimated at 73,928 persons. The city is losing

18 approximately 2500 persons since the last census,

19 that's 500 persons a year it's losing, okay.

20 And subsequently the tax base is

21 eroding, and 22 percent of the elderly are going to be

22 having a hard time if they're being taxed.

23 44 percent of the household incomes in

24 Scranton are below $25,000, and it goes on and on and

25 on, and utilities have cut off 86,00 homes in the first


1 six months in Pennsylvania, and they plan to cut off

2 utilities of more than 100,000 by November, so we are

3 in dire straits, and I hope that the Council realizes

4 this when they're looking at the budget and when the

5 taxpayers will support what we're doing here. Thank

6 you very much.

7 MR. DIBILEO: Mr. Quinn, I just wanted

8 to comment on a couple remarks that were made recently

9 on the fact that the long-term debt is including the

10 authorities, and one reason why I think rightfully so,

11 I'm not going to be able to have you comment any

12 further, unfortunately, but just to comment in return,

13 the financial feasibility study or the brand new garage

14 going up at the former Hotel Casey location included

15 revenue for the 175 spaces from the hotel, Hilton Hotel

16 and Conference Center. They may be provided free

17 parking, which is going to be negotiated in the future,

18 and if they are, that money will not be available to

19 that garage from the hotel.

20 And as we know, the full faith and

21 credit of the city taxpayers is responsible to make

22 those payments if it doesn't make the payments on its

23 own.

24 MR. QUINN: That's correct.

25 MR. DIBILEO: I just took that as an


1 example, something that I picked up recently in dealing

2 with the Hilton Hotel and Conference Center.

3 MR. QUINN: Yes. It implies you're a

4 co-signor of all these bonds, and of all this

5 indebtedness.

6 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Mr. Quinn. Is

7 this Phyllis D. Humphrey? Okay, Phyllis.

8 MS. HUMPHREY: How is everyone?

9 MR. DIBILEO: Good, Phyllis. Phyllis,

10 I'm going to ask --

11 MS. HUMPHREY: I'm in a joyful mood and

12 I have everything in order.

13 MR. DIBILEO: Wonderful. I'm going to

14 ask --

15 MS. HUMPHREY: I use everything visual.

16 MR. DIBILEO: Phyllis, I'm going to ask

17 you something real quick.


19 MR. DIBILEO: We appreciate you being

20 here, and we would greatly appreciate it if you could

21 try and keep your comments regarding city business.

22 MS. HUMPHREY: I'm doing it, that's why

23 --

24 MR. DIBILEO: Because last week I don't

25 think that your comments were involving city business,


1 not as though --

2 MS. HUMPHREY: When it comes to justice

3 and abuse and batterment and politicians saying things

4 that they're supposed to do and they don't do, it kind

5 of gets into that you do have to pray and that you do

6 have to bring God and tell people it's time to return.

7 I brought this because this reminds me

8 of the politicians that don't do what they do, and

9 abortion, euthanasia, capital punishment, we got to

10 return back to God, that's number one.

11 Now we will get on the agenda.

12 (UNTRANSCRIBABLE) And in India, how are we going to

13 change this world and the City of Scranton?

14 I want to extend my sympathy to the

15 military for the people that have died in our area,

16 that's number one.

17 President Bush, people are against him,

18 but I dealt with the Middle Eastern, and I know exactly

19 what goes on. Islam is of peace, but there is people

20 that destroy Islam.

21 Believe it or not, President Bush is

22 properly doing what really has to be done, because

23 nobody really sees what is actually going on. Pray for

24 President Bush. I love him.

25 Flags, I had asked about the land. Did


1 you find anything about that land up by McDade Park for

2 the peace chapel? Okay.

3 I want to thank the people -- these are

4 the people that have been involved with the flags, VFW

5 in Eynon, the Legion of Mary in honor of Daniel Kusick,

6 PennDOT, Department of Highways.

7 MR. DIBILEO: Excuse me, Phyllis. I

8 want to remind people in the audience to please refrain

9 from speaking while there's someone at the podium.

10 MS. HUMPHREY: Dunmore State Police,

11 they donated a flag for the peace chapel that was taken

12 to the holy father, Mr. DiCarluccio, he is a Marine

13 that served in the second World War and travelled all

14 over. He is in the Coast Guard. He bought a flag,

15 also, for the peace chapel, whenever it is built,

16 right. My mom, that's deceased, she gave the prisoner

17 of war, my grandmother had fight in the service.

18 Now, these are the ones that I got,

19 France, Germany, Italy, Korea, Poland, Czechoslovakia,

20 Saudi Arabia, Israel and the pontifical flag in honor

21 of my loved Pope's predecessors and successors.

22 I, as a person, try to do this as best

23 I could because of the invitation of people. They have

24 lost their faith, they have lost their beliefs, and

25 we've got to, like, up it up.


1 Now the other thing is about a podium,

2 I understand here about all the things that we bring

3 here. In London, I was told that in London, they have

4 podium set up that children, teenagers and adults once

5 a week could speak on anything that they desire, and

6 especially for the teenagers.

7 You know, the teenagers are so troubled

8 today, and we really have to give support and life to

9 these children, so, therefore, I'm asking in the City

10 Scranton, will they see and construct a podium that

11 could be over by our courthouse an people could speak

12 or can move it into the courthouse so children and

13 teenagers, like this beautiful boy over here that's

14 speaking, that's blessed, we have to hear from the

15 young children. It's imperative that the young

16 children get to speak.

17 The other thing that I want is, anybody

18 in the City of Scranton or the surrounding areas, have

19 they been sexually abused, attacked, battered, abused,

20 property stolen off of them, not represented properly,

21 I surely would like them to come to 499 Mulberry

22 Street, Scranton, Pennsylvania --

23 MR. DIBILEO: Phyllis, I see Mr. Walsh

24 is making comments. I think that --

25 MR. WALSH: Yeah, perhaps that would be


1 better to speak to the police department if there's any

2 problems like that, rather than here at the Council

3 meeting.

4 MS. HUMPHREY: Well, okay. The

5 Scranton Police --

6 MR. DIBILEO: Phyllis --

7 MS. HUMPHREY: -- God Bless them, they

8 do their job. The Scranton Police, God Bless them.

9 And I'm glad that they did build that place over there.

10 But also I do want to say after the

11 police do their documents, the records, there's

12 something going on there. You go to the magistrate,

13 something is going on there, you know.

14 So, we need for the women that are

15 abused and battered and all, I really think that they

16 need more support, like, cars and people to take them

17 around and to take them to the legal placed and the

18 elderly, it's important.

19 MR. DIBILEO: Okay.

20 MS. HUMPHREY: And the other thing --

21 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Phyllis.

22 MS. HUMPHREY: -- before I wrap it up

23 --

24 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Phyllis.

25 Yeah, I'm going to have to --


1 MS. HUMPHREY: The veterans --

2 MR. DIBILEO: I am going to have to

3 stop you there and ask you if you would please come

4 back next week with anything further.

5 MS. HUMPHREY: Well, I just want to

6 close with this, St. Michael the Archangel, defend us

7 in battle, be our safeguard against the wickedness and

8 snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, and we humbly

9 pray, and do though, O Prince of the Heavenly Host,

10 cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits that roam

11 through this world seeking to ruin us --

12 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you very much.

13 MS. HUMPHREY: I have a statue of the

14 Blessed Mother from Italy for Bishop Martino and for

15 the Italian Festival for next year. She's in here.

16 MR. DIBILEO: Okay. Thank you very

17 much, Phyllis. Les Spindler.

18 MR. SPINDLER: Mr. Spindler, this

19 gentleman was ahead of me, he was skipped over on the

20 list.

21 MR. DIBILEO: Oh, I'm sorry. Actually

22 he's right after you, but whichever way you'd like to

23 do it.

24 MR. SPINDLER: My fault. Sorry about

25 that. He said he was before me.


1 MR. DIBILEO: No problem.

2 MR. SPINDLER: Good evening, Council.

3 Les Spindler, Scranton resident. About the Hollow

4 Avenue situation, last week George Parker said pictures

5 are deceiving and deceivers take pictures, well, I have

6 something also to say, pictures don't lie, people do,

7 and this administration has lied since day one.

8 What was done on Hollow Avenue was

9 almost criminal. It's almost the same as prisoners

10 doing work at a certain ex-councilman's house, and we

11 all know that story.

12 That being said, I think George Parker

13 and Chris Doherty should hand in their resignations

14 immediately.

15 While we're on that subject of

16 resignations, Mr. Pocius, last week you said you're

17 glad you lost and you don't know if you can take four

18 more years of this, well, why don't you do us all a

19 favor, resign now and leave your pension behind?

20 MR. DIBILEO: Mr. Walsh, go right

21 ahead.

22 MR. WALSH: I just think it's getting a

23 little bit out of hand, that's the only reason I

24 brought it up.

25 MR. SPINDLE: He brought it up last


1 week.

2 MR. DIBILEO: We'll move onto another

3 subject.

4 MR. POCIUS: I don't care --

5 MR. SPINDLER: I'm done with that.

6 MR. POCIUS: I don't care.

7 MR. SPINDLER: I have something else to

8 read. If you don't care, you should step down.

9 The smell of desperation is in the air.

10 Not only is Chris Doherty in full panic mode, but so

11 are The Scranton Times, the Philadelphia lawyers, the

12 $600,000 bond deal maker who is showing up at Council,

13 and, oh, yes, even the drug dealers and the slum lords

14 of South Side who are surprised by me to see police

15 cars and inspectors all over the territory trying to

16 frantically fix in one month what was destroyed in four

17 years. Guess what, it's too late, too late for Chris

18 Doherty, the people are onto him.

19 Too late for the Philadelphia lawyers,

20 they'll have to take their bags of gold, along with the

21 hundreds of thousands of dollars back to the big time

22 with a wave of thanks to Mayor Doherty.

23 Too late for the bond deal maker and

24 the mayor's local lawyer friends who will have to be

25 content in Green Ridge with the hundreds of thousands


1 of dollars of Scranton taxpayers' money the mayor gave

2 them, a nice retirement nest egg.

3 Unfortunately it also may be too late

4 for the hardworking citizens of Scranton whose debt

5 Mayor Chris Doherty has run up to well over $150

6 million, even though he inherited a $3 million surplus.

7 This debt will crush our children and

8 our grandchildren. And who benefits? Rich friends and

9 campaign contributors of Chris Doherty.

10 Well, it's not too late. It's time for

11 a change. It may be too late for the people of South

12 Side. This once beautiful neighborhood has now become

13 what the Hill Section used to be before the last few

14 administrations and the Scranton Police Department

15 cleaned it up.

16 Four years of Chris Doherty's neglect

17 has turned South Side into a haven for drug dealers,

18 prostitutes, criminals and slum lords. If we give

19 Chris Doherty four more years, your neighborhoods may

20 be next.

21 But it's not too late. Vote for

22 change. Save South Side and all the neighborhoods. A

23 change will put police officers back in your

24 neighborhood, lower taxes, eliminate the deficit, fix

25 your streets, create jobs for your children and your


1 grandchildren, and most importantly, be a mayor for all

2 the people. It's not too late.

3 I have a few comments about something

4 the mayor said about in the debate the other day. The

5 mayor said he worked well with Council as far as two

6 years, well, that's only because he had his puppets on

7 and there was strings he pulled, they did anything he

8 wanted them to do.

9 MR. DIBILEO: I'd like to ask you to

10 refrain from comments of that nature, Mr. Spindler,

11 please.

12 MR. SPINDLER: It's the truth, with all

13 due respect, Mr. DiBileo. Some things about what the

14 mayor said in The Sunday Times, he said about the

15 signs, he said, I'm the mayor of the city, I'm

16 promoting the city and all entertainment going around

17 the city, well, that's fine to promote the city, but

18 there's no reason to have his picture on the

19 billboards, also.

20 Something else it said, Mr. DiBileo

21 starts nearly every public comment portion of the

22 meeting by asking speakers not to make political

23 remarks, the admonition was ignored by speakers

24 brandishing DiBileo campaign bracelets.

25 Well, if The Scranton Times got things


1 straight, they're not campaign bracelets, they're

2 support our troops bracelets, which Mayor Doherty

3 doesn't do. Thank you.

4 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you. Wade Rosar.

5 MR. ROSAR: Wade Rosar, North Scranton.

6 I just have a letter I want to give to each Council

7 member. I know it doesn't stand with the City Council,

8 but it's something that's on my mind, this heating fuel

9 issue we're coming up against.

10 As we know with all the disasters we've

11 been having in the United States with the hurricanes

12 and all these problems, I came up with a petition that

13 I would like to share, and the petition is dated for

14 October 2005, when I wrote it, it has a reference No.

15 RF5 -- October of '05.

16 The petition reads, Request for a cost

17 reduction and assistance and paying for home heating

18 fuel. This petition has been started by concerned

19 utility customers of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania

20 in order to protect the welfare of the people of this

21 Commonwealth.

22 Heating prices have been rising

23 significantly each year with the PUC approval and

24 without any response or complaints from our state

25 representatives and state officials elected by the work


1 and non-working class of Pennsylvania.

2 To uphold the rights of the said

3 constituents, to stop the ever increasing costs of home

4 heating fuels, which in turn affects the people's

5 health and welfare, has been said in the media that the

6 rising heating an fuel costs in the northeast part of

7 the country are or the direct effects of Hurricane

8 Katrina and Rita.

9 Since this has been said in aid and

10 price-gouging legislations have been put on the table

11 for approval for these people, this area affected, then

12 why us northeast coast victims aren't we entitled to

13 the same and legislations?

14 We must as taxpayers and citizens,

15 middle class in work and others make our state work for

16 the same constituents and replace them in office.

17 Sorry, I'm not a strong reader.

18 While prices of fuel heat goes up, the

19 working class minimum wage doesn't. We must stand up

20 as consumers, human beings and taxpayers and citizens

21 of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and to be counted,

22 not counted out.

23 This petition is not limited to just

24 the state legislature, as well, I am going to send it

25 to the governor, and if it needs to go farther, whoever


1 handles the fuel, but this is just a petition I have

2 started, and I believe it's a good cause, and if anyone

3 would like information, can I give my number and they

4 can call me?

5 MR. DIBILEO: Go right ahead.

6 MR. ROSAR: My phone number is area

7 code 570-341-5049. I believe this is a good cause, and

8 I hate to take away from City Council business, but I

9 think it's something that needs to be addressed. Thank

10 you for your time.

11 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Mr. Rosar,

12 thank you. Lee Morgan.

13 MR. MORGAN: Good evening, Council.

14 MR. DIBILEO: Good evening.

15 MR. MORGAN: I have a lot of ground I

16 want to cover. I didn't get a chance to get here last

17 week because I was at the county commissioners meeting,

18 but the first thing I have is, on the agenda, 6-B, you

19 know, I would say that I absolutely support this

20 legislation, but I think it needs to be changed in

21 regards that all residential construction should comply

22 to this, because I think that every new residence built

23 in the City of Scranton should be handicapped

24 accessible, okay?

25 I mean, the property will be sold, it


1 will go to another owner, there will be people who come

2 here and visit. You know, we made pave cuts on corners

3 to make them all wheelchair accessible, and I think the

4 way to measure our society is how much we can make --

5 adapt society to the handicapped, because someday we

6 may be handicapped.

7 The other thing I have is, there was

8 some talk at one time about the Recreational Authority

9 about naming the playground at Nay Aug park in honor of

10 Morris Jackson, and I really haven't heard any

11 legislation come from anywhere in regards to that, and

12 I just hope that that's not a dead issue.

13 Another thing I have is, we had a

14 problem here with some pit bulls here that were -- that

15 had killed some animals inside the City of Scranton,

16 and from what -- I'm not exactly sure if strong enough

17 legislation has come through Council or anything has

18 come from the mayor's office in regards to this, but

19 now these dogs are in the Plot Section, and I've

20 received letters from these people telling me that

21 they're extremely concerned.

22 And I'm only an ordinary person, and

23 what I'm saying here is, it's time for Council to move

24 forward on this to protect the residents of this city

25 from vicious dogs.


1 And like I've said before, I think what

2 needs to be done is we need to change the laws so that

3 when you bring certain breeds of dogs into this city,

4 you have to have insurance on that breed, and that

5 anybody can have any dog they want, as long as they

6 have the insurance.

7 We have somebody here from the building

8 trades, and I'd like to say to this gentleman that

9 citizens live in this city, they pay taxes, they work

10 here and they live here, all right, and I do have a

11 copy of the legislation he was talking about CRF, and,

12 you know, when you take a look at this, you have Allied

13 Institute, almost $3 million, you have Allied Long-Term

14 Care, $1.1 million, you have Bon Ton Department Store,

15 $1 million, you know, how much of this actually has led

16 to any real construction, all right?

17 And then he's talking about, well,

18 let's roll it over, let's create construction here, and

19 I think that anybody who ever walks through the

20 neighborhoods in this city knows where the real

21 construction has to take place, it has to take place in

22 the neighborhood, it's something called reconstruction,

23 all right?

24 Take a look at all the neighborhoods,

25 see the amount of disrepair in the neighborhoods, and


1 there are actually Scrantonians struggling to fix and

2 maintain their properties, and I think that any mayor,

3 including this mayor if he's reelected or Mr. DiBileo

4 need to move funds and make it possible for these

5 people to fix their properties.

6 There's an awful lot of people below

7 the poverty level, and I'm going to say that, you know,

8 nobody ever thinks about the working poor, and they're

9 out there.

10 There's a vast majority of Americans

11 that are the working poor, they go to work every day,

12 and all they want to do is go to work, earn a living,

13 support their family and want government to do the

14 things that government was formed for, to serve the

15 people, but it's not happening, and it's got to happen

16 here.

17 I'm extremely troubled by Mr. O'Malley

18 and the Scranton School Board's position on closing

19 schools in neighborhoods, and I think that what we

20 really need to do is we need to start closing one

21 school at a time and start doing reconstruction on

22 these schools until we can reconstruct all of them, all

23 right? We don't need another high school, we need to

24 main neighborhood elementary schools.

25 And the last thing I have here is, the


1 Scranton Lackawanna Taxpayers and Citizens Association

2 have applied for three Community Development Block

3 Grants, we applied on August 8, and from what I

4 understand, they've been removed from consideration,

5 and what I'm asking this Council to do and for the

6 mayor is to reconsider your positions on this, because

7 what these funds were asked for was emergency furnace

8 repair and replacement to help low income people,

9 another thing was year-around youth programs in the

10 city, and the last one was emergency home repairs to

11 help low and moderate income people.

12 Now, I'd have to say this, Mr. Quinn

13 worked with Habitat for Humanity, he's got a lot of

14 experience, he's not out for himself, the Scranton

15 Lackawanna Taxpayers Association wants to empower

16 people and help people, and what we're asking elected

17 officials to do is to help us to help other people.

18 Let's remove politics from this, let's

19 get our request back into this Community Development

20 Block Grant consideration, and, you know what, let's

21 give people a chance that aren't political hacks to

22 move things forward in the city for the people, all

23 right, because that's what everybody was elected for,

24 let's move back and find out that the people are

25 important and let's empower them. Thank you.


1 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you. Helen Cook.

2 MS. COOK: Hi, City Council, good

3 evening.

4 MR. DIBILEO: Good evening.

5 MS. COOK: Helen Cook, taxpayer,

6 resident of the Plot Section in Green Ridge and a voter

7 in the city.

8 Many years ago, and we've been coming

9 to Council for a long time, it was always a rule here

10 that anyone that spoke at this podium was either a

11 taxpayer, a resident or both.

12 It seems in the past several months,

13 it's gotten away from that and we have a lot of

14 out-of-town speakers coming to speak here, and it gets

15 to be a little monotonous after they're here for so

16 many times and no one is ever saying anything about it.

17 Is that rule still holding here?

18 MR. DIBILEO: To be honest, I don't --

19 I'm not aware of that rule being in effect. Correct me

20 if I'm wrong, but I know that some non-residents own

21 property here, Helen, I think they have a right --

22 MS. COOK: No, that, I understand.

23 MR. DIBILEO: Okay.

24 MS. COOK: But we just seem to have

25 out-of-towners coming here that are speaking, and if


1 you notice, they're not giving their addresses, just

2 their name and whatever.

3 But anyhow, the reason I'm really here

4 is, Mrs. Evans, you mentioned last week about a list

5 that you thought was in the city regarding trees, well,

6 I thought there was also a list that was in the city

7 regarding catch basins, in May of this year, I

8 contacted DPW, and they came out to Race and Brown and

9 put up barricades over two very badly damaged catch

10 basins, and you know that's one of our flood areas --

11 MS. EVANS: Yes.

12 MS. COOK: -- it gets quite high water

13 out there, as several people know that have been trying

14 to drive through there during floods, but in April of

15 last year the sewers backed up, and of course it was

16 not the river at that time, it was just the sewers.

17 Well, the Scranton Sewer Authority did

18 come down and they cleaned all of the catch basins in

19 the 2100 block of Brown Avenue, did a good job and the

20 men were all thanked because they really did a good

21 job, but what concerns me are the two basins that are

22 not yet repaired.

23 And like I said, I thought there was a

24 list for this to go on. Well, I don't know if you want

25 to say this could be political, because in the Plot we


1 have a lot, in that particular neighborhood, of red,

2 white and blue signs, yet up in upper Green Ridge where

3 the green and the blue signs happen to be, and one in

4 particular in the 1700 block of Wyoming Avenue on the

5 corner of Delaware Street, there was a catch basin just

6 two weeks ago that had barricades placed over it.

7 Well, last week, low and behold, they

8 have a brand new catch basin there, and it seems as

9 though priorities should take over here where the Plot

10 is always getting flooded, either with the river water

11 or with sewers.

12 So, I don't know what the story is, I

13 don't know how else we can get those catch basins

14 fixed, all I know is if all these signs have anything

15 to do with it, I hope people realize signs don't vote

16 and also non-residents of this city don't either.

17 Thank you.

18 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you.

19 MS. EVANS: Kay, would you add that to

20 my list this evening that I've already given you?

21 Thank you.

22 MR. DIBILEO: Warren Norton.

23 MR. NORTON: Good evening, Council.

24 Once again, I'd like to thank you for the opportunity

25 to speak. This week I believe there has been a major


1 development in the City of Scranton, it has come to my

2 attention that a court document has confirmed that the

3 president of the Scranton Police Union has admitted

4 under oath in the United States Middle District Court

5 that she has lied for political gain, specifically she

6 has admitted under oath that because she is in a

7 dispute with the city, that she has, one, lied The

8 Scranton Times newspaper, now, I realize that's not a

9 crime, that it is her job to, quote, Slap the

10 administration any way she can, that it is her job to,

11 quote, promote political rhetoric and that her words

12 are, quote, political bull, and she stated that she

13 will say whatever she has to say to needle someone.

14 Again, this testimony was given under

15 oath in the United States Middle District Court by the

16 president of the Scranton Police Union. This union

17 president is an active campaign worker for one of the

18 political candidates and has spoken week after week

19 here at this podium, with no other purpose than to bash

20 the progress of the City of Scranton.

21 It is my personal belief that these

22 sworn statements of this union president eliminate

23 absolutely all credibility from the tactics she has

24 attempted to use against the City of Scranton.

25 More importantly, this admission of


1 manipulating the truth in front of the people of

2 Scranton demands an answer and clarification regarding

3 --

4 MR. DIBILEO: Mr. Walsh is --

5 MR. WALSH: I apologize for

6 interrupting you, sir, but this seems to go overboard

7 with respect to the police officer that's being

8 mentioned, I don't believe she's a public official.

9 If the gentleman wants to talk about

10 public officials and the job they're doing, but it just

11 seems like it may be going a little astray on --

12 MR. DIBILEO: At the advice of Mr.

13 Walsh, Mr. Norton, I would like to ask you to move to a

14 different subject, please.

15 MR. NORTON: Well, I apologize to

16 Council and the solicitor, and I'll withhold my

17 statements. Again, my apologies.

18 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you. Jeanette

19 Hayes.

20 MS. HAYES: Good evening, Council. I'm

21 here on the behalf of the Jermyn Apartments about

22 parking. I have a lot of people that signed the paper.

23 There's no places to park down there in the Jermyn.

24 And you said something about the Hilton

25 when they get new parking, that in the future, that it


1 might give some people parking down at the Jermyn, I

2 just moved there about a month ago, I got three parking

3 tickets already.

4 I have a handicap sticker. I got

5 another parking ticket, and they said you cannot park

6 there, you cannot feed the meter over two hours, you

7 have to come down, move your car and come back again an

8 park on another side of the street. Like, where are we

9 supposed to park at?

10 MR. DIBILEO: And you're having a hard

11 time getting monthly parking at the --

12 MS. HAYES: Yeah, I'm on a waiting

13 list.

14 MR. DIBILEO: And will that take --

15 MS. HAYES: We had somebody down here

16 last week about the same thing, and we have no place to

17 park at.

18 MR. DIBILEO: Is anyone aware if the

19 new hotel -- new Hilton parking garage will ease some

20 of the pressure on the residents at the Jermyn?

21 MR. SAUNDERS: I talked to Mr.

22 Wintermantle about that today, he said that he does

23 thing that there's some spaces loosening up at the

24 Electric City Garage shortly. He said there is a

25 waiting list, and that's the best they can do. They're


1 not going to move meters out downtown.

2 MS. HAYES: And then the meter says you

3 can't park there for two hours. It's, like, you have

4 to just move?

5 MR. SAUNDERS: See, that's done by city

6 ordinance. That would have to -- we would have to do

7 something about that.

8 MS. HAYES: Me, myself, I had paid -- I

9 had went out -- when I was living at the Jermyn, I came

10 downstairs, I paid every two hours, they clocked me at

11 3:59, a parking ticket. What are we supposed to do?

12 MR. DIBILEO: I have two comments to

13 make, Jeanette, that could help; number one, I'd like

14 to ask if you would contact Mr. Jim Wintermantle, the

15 Scranton Parking Authority chairman to find out if he

16 would be willing to meet with you and other residents

17 of the Jermyn Apartments; secondly, we're expecting him

18 to give us a presentation regarding the parking garages

19 in question, not so much the new parking garage.

20 MS. HAYES: But you don't know when?

21 Like, okay, this is October.

22 MR. DIBILEO: I think he may be coming

23 actually next week, and we'll ask him while he's here

24 if he could possible take a couple extra minutes and

25 address the situation at the Jermyn.


1 MS. HAYES: Okay. Thank you. That's

2 all I want.

3 MR. DIBILEO: Okay. Thank you. John

4 Keeler.

5 MR. KEELER: Good evening, Council.

6 There was a couple things said tonight -- I'm John

7 Keller from Orchard Street, Scranton, Pennsylvania,

8 resident and taxpayer and homeowner.

9 Regarding the Montage ski slope and the

10 baseball field and how they're a drain on the taxpayer,

11 well, the Montage ski slope and the baseball field back

12 there are classic examples and great examples why the

13 Hilton has to be managed and kept alive and why the CRF

14 is a good idea, because when those two entities were

15 constructed, the ski slope and the baseball diamond, no

16 one could ever have envisioned the economic development

17 that's ensued.

18 Millions, multi-millions of dollars

19 have been invested in Montage Mountain, because the

20 county at the time, through the assistance of

21 Congressman McDade and Governor Casey were able to put

22 the infrastructure in place, so I think that's

23 testimony to the vision of the folks who did that,

24 understood that the economic development that was going

25 to happen there would not have taken place without the


1 city, county and state's cooperation.

2 Number two, in light of all of the

3 discussion about the situation regarding whose debt is

4 what, I would just pose the question where would be --

5 talk -- all this talk about parking garages, none of

6 the parking garages would have been constructed if not

7 for the bonds, especially the garage over the new

8 theater on Lackawanna Avenue, that was essential to the

9 development of those theaters that that parking garage

10 be installed.

11 It would not have been possible without

12 bonds. They were thin, no question about it. As far

13 as the ability to repave it, I think it's worked out

14 pretty well.

15 Number two, as far as the sewage is

16 concerned, we wouldn't have a sewage treatment plant in

17 Scranton, you wouldn't have any ability to update catch

18 basins or anything else, if not for the bond issues and

19 the Pennvest loans.

20 So, I think there's two sides of every

21 balance sheet, and there's often been confusion here

22 regarding the amount of indebtedness versus cash flow.

23 The cash flow, I read the audit, the

24 cash flow has actually improved. And a lot of the

25 items being mentioned here are footnotes to the audit


1 conducted by Rossi, so I think it requires a great deal

2 more consideration than what's been given, as far as

3 how that debt is allocated.

4 By the way, most of it was -- if not,

5 all but about $30 million of it, which is a

6 considerable sum of money obviously, was in place long

7 before Chris Doherty became mayor, and his

8 administration -- I believe the sanctions have been

9 lifted.

10 His administration was able to get a

11 Triple A bond rating because of the insurance that was

12 provided. It was made mention last week about

13 insurance, that insurance resulted in a net savings to

14 the taxpayer, so these numbers, although cast out of

15 context sound like they're deplorable and going to be

16 albatrosses around the city taxpayers' necks, but the

17 reality is they're been actually quite beneficial.

18 Number two, as far as the presentations

19 being made regarding pensions, the comments were made

20 that the composite pension board makes the investments,

21 and yet previous to that the criticism was made that

22 the investments have gone down for five years.

23 Investments and pension funds and all

24 sorts of 401Ks are all subject to market fluctuation,

25 we all know that. Mine has gone down itself in the


1 last couple of weeks because of the drop in the stock

2 market.

3 There is a considerable drop in the

4 stock market between the years 2000 and 2002, when it

5 plummeted from a DOW of $12,000 to $8,000. So, we have

6 to keep that stuff in mind when we start talking about

7 fluctuation and investments.

8 And I'm here tonight to talk about the

9 increase, demonstrated increase, in the revenue

10 provided by the real estate transfer tax, and this tax

11 here that was reported in The Scranton Times today, the

12 $17,000 revenue increase from year to date, 2005 to

13 2004, and I think that's a significant number because

14 it does illustrate that there is some job growth,

15 whether it's $3,000 or $1800, which would represent

16 your average of $12, and $17,000 would be around 1500

17 jobs, so -- but as the article went on to say, it's

18 very, very difficult to quantify exactly how many jobs

19 have been created or lost as a result of collection of

20 the occupational privilege tax.

21 But I do -- I want -- I just want to

22 point out to you folks that I have been the target of

23 criticism, and we got a letter in the mail signed by an

24 anonymous person, again, I've been referred to as a red

25 faced drunken Irishman, now I'm the fat guy, and I just


1 think it's unbelievable that the supporters of people

2 who don't support the candidate that I support, who is

3 Mayor Doherty, think that they can just cast aspersions

4 on my character whenever they feel like it.

5 I'd be more than happy to debate them

6 if they were man enough or woman enough to let me know

7 who they are. Thank you.

8 MR. DIBILEO: Mr. Keeler, with all due

9 respect I have to say, Join the crowd. I mean, that

10 happens to people on both sides of the fence. Don't

11 feel as though you're being singled out, so it does

12 happen quite often. Kevin Sutherd.

13 MR. SUTHERD: Good evening. My name is

14 Kevin Sutherd, and I live in West Scranton. I was born

15 and raised in Scranton, but did leave the area upon

16 graduation from college in the earl 1980s.

17 At the time, not only Scranton, but a

18 number of cities in the Northeast were hard hit by

19 unemployment forcing a lot of people my age to pursue

20 career opportunities elsewhere.

21 The Northeast was referred to as the

22 rustbelt, a moniker that stuck for a number of years

23 due to the loss of manufacturing jobs and not much hope

24 for a future; for example, Cleveland, Ohio had to put

25 up with the nickname, The mistake by the Lake.


1 There was a generally feeling among

2 people my age that the only way to secure a better life

3 was to relocate to the south, southwest or the west

4 coast.

5 I was lucky. I found work in Central

6 Pennsylvania and was able to visit family and friends

7 here in Scranton on weekends and in the summers for a

8 number of years.

9 In all honesty, I never thought I would

10 return to Northeastern Pennsylvania, there just didn't

11 seem to be any opportunity here.

12 I decided to return home in 1999, and

13 was able to land a job at the University of Scranton.

14 In my current position I get an opportunity to talk

15 with parents of students and prospective students from

16 throughout Connecticut, Maryland, New Jersey, New York

17 and Pennsylvania, and I think you would be pleasantly

18 surprised how many of them have nothing but positive

19 things to say about the City of Scranton. Many of them

20 tell me how much they enjoy the downtown area and what

21 a nice place this is.

22 Even though many of us may think the

23 grass is greener elsewhere, sometimes you don't really

24 appreciate how good you have it until you hear it from

25 someone else.


1 Last spring for the first time in years

2 I went to Nay Aug Park to participate in a race to

3 raise money for a local charity. I was amazed at the

4 park's transformation.

5 It was a pleasure to be there, which,

6 as I remember in the late '70s and '80s, wasn't always

7 the case. Nay Aug had fallen into such disrepair that

8 many Scrantonians, including myself, were afraid to go

9 near the woods.

10 I went there for a jog last Sunday

11 morning and found that I'm going to go there more

12 often, since it is such a well-maintained facility.

13 Mayor Doherty and his administration deserve a

14 tremendous amount of credit for saving Nay Aug Park.

15 Earlier I touched on Cleveland, Ohio

16 and what a tough time that city went through in the

17 late '70s and '80s. Today Cleveland is a prosperous

18 city that features the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and a

19 waterfront that brings visitors from all over the

20 country. It's a city on the rise. No one refers to it

21 anymore as the Mistake on the Lake.

22 I believe Mr. Doherty's blueprint to

23 rebuild Scranton mirrors that of Cleveland and other

24 cities in the Northeast, such as Pittsburgh and

25 Baltimore that have built up their downtown areas in an


1 effort to encourage people, not only to visit, but to

2 live within the city limits.

3 Not only is it nice to see activity in

4 Downtown Scranton at night and on weekends, but the

5 number of businesses cropping up in North Scranton and

6 West Scranton is extremely encouraging.

7 I find Mr. Doherty's efforts to rebuild

8 Scranton and its image noble and something I thought at

9 one time was impossible.

10 Another program that Mr. Doherty has, I

11 believe, has installed here in the city that really

12 hasn't gotten a lot of publicity, but I think it

13 deserves it, is the One Book One City Program where

14 he's encouraging people of all ages to read classic

15 books, and this year's book is Thornton Wilder's Our

16 Town.

17 Is Mr. Doherty and his administration

18 responsible for all the positive changes in Scranton?

19 Not all of them.

20 One of the speakers at last week's

21 Council meeting correctly pointed out that former

22 Mayor Jim Connors should get credit for the Mall at

23 Steamtown, I agree with that assessment.

24 The Mall at Steamtown was a wonderful

25 idea, and it has had a positive impact on the


1 community.

2 I also believe that City Council has

3 done a number of positive things for the city

4 throughout the years, and I commend each and every one

5 of you. You have a thankless job, yet each of you do

6 it in a professional manner. Deep down inside I

7 believe you have Scranton's best interests at heart.

8 I don't agree with every decision that

9 Mayor Doherty and his administration make, but I do

10 find him to be a strong leader and one who makes

11 decisions that may not always be popular, but yet need

12 to be made for the betterment of the city. I'm proud

13 of the accomplishments of the Doherty Administration.

14 In closing, I know that there will be

15 speakers here tonight who may not agree with my

16 remarks, I understand that and I respect their right to

17 step up to podium and present their viewpoints.

18 My only hope is that for those watching

19 tonight's broadcast that we can show our viewing

20 audience that we can present different ideas and

21 opinions about political candidates and issues in a

22 thought provoking and respectful manner.

23 I'd like to thank City Council for

24 giving me this opportunity to speak tonight. Thank

25 you.


1 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you.

2 MS. EVANS: And if I might, add because

3 I appreciate your remarks about Scranton Reads, we're

4 also reading the Crucible by Arthur Miller, and of

5 course for the students of the Scranton School

6 District, these pieces of literature are already a part

7 of our curriculum, but I think the added bonus is that

8 each play will be performed, one at West Scranton High

9 School, that being the Crucible, and Our Town will be

10 performed at Scranton High School, and I believe both

11 performances are scheduled for this month, and I've

12 also heard that our mayor will have to the lead roll in

13 our town at Scranton High School. Thank you.

14 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you Mr. Sutherd,

15 very nice. Fred Budzinski.

16 MR. BUDZINSKI: Fred Budzinski, Jermyn

17 Apartments. I have here a petition, quite a few names

18 for benches, benches on the 100 block of Wyoming

19 Avenue.

20 MS. EVANS: Mr. Budzinski, we've been

21 working on that, and I believe that Ms. Hailstone has

22 indicated there will be money to provide for such

23 benches, we're just to decide on the locations, and now

24 that you have presented the petition, we know exactly

25 where they should be placed.


1 MR. BUDZINSKI: Most of those names are

2 seniors and they were taken from the 100 block of

3 Wyoming Avenue.

4 MS. EVANS: Thank you.

5 MR. BUDZINSKI: Now, before me there

6 was a speaker, Jeanette Hayes, who was talking about

7 parking in the Jermyn apartments, well, one little

8 solution would probably be, there's two parking meters

9 down by the court there, just two parking meters, and

10 all they have to do is remove them two parking meters

11 and mark that out from the court to Wyoming Avenue for

12 parking only for residents of Jermyn Apartments, and I

13 believe they can get eight or nine cars right in front

14 of that Jermyn Apartments.

15 Now, Sunday I was reading the paper,

16 the front page of The Scranton Times about the Council

17 meeting and that, and then it continued on Page 6 and

18 7, two full pages, the Council meeting, two full pages.

19 I read all of it. At Page 6 I fell

20 asleep, it took so long to read it. Then when I woke

21 up, I read the other half. In fact, it was my son that

22 woke me up.

23 And nowhere -- I read in there we got

24 about, I don't know, 50 people or so here, and they

25 mentioned about characters, they're idiots, it was in


1 the paper. I don't know which ones here are the

2 characters or the idiots, but we got about 50 people

3 here.

4 Which reminds me, last week I got on

5 the bus, this is a fact, talk about embarrassing, and

6 one lady told me, Are you the fellow that speaks at the

7 Council meeting? I said, Yeah. Well, I thought we

8 were going to have a nice conversation. She said,

9 Can't you stand up straight, you look like you just

10 came out of the gin mill. Well, you know where that

11 boat went.

12 Well, then she started talking about

13 them other knuckleheads at the Council meeting. Well,

14 that blew a fuse. I started arguing, and the bus

15 driver said, Hey, you two, keep quiet or I'll kick you

16 off the bus. So, I shut up like a clam, I didn't want

17 to start hitchhiking to Gerrity's Supermarket. It's

18 dangerous today hitchhiking.

19 Anyway in that paper, nothing mentioned

20 about population drop -- time's up already? Nothing

21 mentioned about us seniors with our daughters and sons

22 working out of town, like Mrs. O'Boyle has a sone down

23 in California.

24 Last meeting I heard something about

25 streets are safe. You had a woman here last week


1 living in her father's home, she's thinking about

2 selling it. She said to her, it's unsafe to walk the

3 streets. She even mentioned there's drugs across the

4 street.

5 Well, nothing mentioned about good

6 paying -- bringing jobs to town, no good-paying jobs.

7 I don't know, let me look around here, and so forth and

8 so forth.

9 Anyway, one guy told me about that

10 North High School in North Scranton when you go up

11 Green Ridge and hit North Scranton, he told me it stand

12 outs like the Alamo up there.

13 And the only thing they need on that

14 building he told me was, put a white flag up there on

15 the top of the building . Well, thank you anyway for

16 listening to me.

17 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you. Thanks, Mr.

18 Budzinski. And we're going to pass this petition along

19 to the appropriate people so that that can be

20 considered, Fred. Thank you very much. Thank you very

21 much. Okay. The last person on the sign-in sheet is

22 J.B. Davis.

23 MR. DAVIS: Assalaam Alaikum, good

24 morning, good afternoon, good evening. First of all,

25 I'd like to speak to Mrs. Wardell, wherever you are, I


1 send you my greetings and my well wishes.

2 I've heard nothing about you or of you

3 or from you. Please contact me. I know that you know

4 where I am and you know how to write to me. I worry

5 about you because you were injured, and you were a

6 great asset to this community, and I want you to go on

7 thinking and feeling that way, and maybe that's what

8 you need to maybe get over a demise or a feeling of not

9 being able. So, we need you. Hurry up, get well and

10 come back. That's number one.

11 Number two, Mrs. Evans, you asked for a

12 report from Scranton Housing Development, Jay, did you

13 ever get the demographics on that for me?

14 MR. SAUNDERS: No, there's no race on

15 it, the list of people that were there.

16 MR. DAVIS: You know, it's hard to

17 believe. We're spending so many federal dollars and

18 state dollars and city dollars trying to improve the

19 situation of those that are less fortunate or not of

20 the same color, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and

21 yet we keep coming up with these forms that don't have

22 race on them.

23 How in the world are you going to keep

24 track? How are you justifying this with the federal

25 government?


1 When you, you know, you see this EOE,

2 you know, you say EOE at the bottom of it, how do you

3 prove that it's EOE? Mr. Tierney does it at the

4 school, eight percent of my population is black,

5 African American.

6 How did you determine that it was

7 African American, did you ask them? I don't know. Are

8 they Mulatto? What degree of blackness do these

9 children have? What are you -- how are you terming --

10 how are you deciding? Is it economics? I don't know

11 what you're doing.

12 But we can't as a member of the

13 community, of the black community, we can't decide if

14 you're really giving us justice or not, if you're

15 really hiring us or not, or if you even want to hire

16 us. It doesn't exist.

17 We're losing more kids in high school

18 than ever -- flunked out of elementary school. They're

19 coming from elementary school with good grades, they go

20 to the high school and they -- suddenly they want to

21 flunk out. Some of then stop going to school. We

22 don't know why.

23 We can't find out why. We go to

24 teachers and we ask them, Why are these kids not doing

25 well? I don't know what you're talking about.


1 The majority of my kids do wonderful.

2 I don't see any blacks on the debating team, I don't

3 see any blacks on the chess team, I don't see any

4 blacks on the tennis team, the only place I see blacks

5 at are on the basketball and football teams, and none

6 of them end up in college, and if they do, maybe one or

7 two maybe one or two might go for a year or two, but

8 they're not eligible, they don't academically fit.

9 Why? Are you just using them up and

10 throwing them aside? These are what the parents come

11 to me and say. This is with I'm hearing at the

12 Progressive Center, at the churches, at the Pine Street

13 Baptist Church, at the Shiloh or at the Bethel AME

14 Church, this is what I hear.

15 Our kids are just being used as

16 gladiators, that's the only thing that we're going to

17 use them for?

18 You don't want to use them for their

19 brains evidently, because not that many of our kids are

20 eligible to get into college. That's the thing that

21 bothers me most.

22 I went through Technical High School, I

23 went to the University of Scranton on an academic

24 scholarship, I know it's possible to come out of a

25 Scranton school and be eligible for these schools, but


1 they're not now, and I'm wondering what happened, what

2 happened to our school system in Scranton.

3 Excuse me. Didn't mean to get excited.

4 I have a -- there's a group of us that are wondering

5 about this, and I'm going to give Kay, and she'll put

6 one in each of your boxes, okay, but it's a group of

7 black men, and we're worried about what is happening to

8 our kids, and we're not going to stop at just a it's

9 okay. It's not okay.

10 MR. MCTIERNAN: Mr. Davis, I just need

11 to clarify some stuff up. Your remarks are off base.

12 MR. DAVIS: As usual.

13 MR. MCTIERNAN: I need to let you know

14 some facts that came out. Standard and Poors does a 13

15 state review of educational systems across the country,

16 and the Scranton School District was one of 61 school

17 districts that was recognized for its achievement.

18 Among the achievement was a reduction

19 in the achievement gap between minority students and

20 non-minority students, as well as economical

21 disadvantaged students, as well as affluent or middle

22 class students, so I think you're painting a picture

23 that's not accurate.

24 I would suggest -- one thing that I

25 would tell you is I don't think there are any schools


1 or any organizations where we shut the doors, so I'll

2 offer on the record, please come and try out for

3 everything we have, first of all.

4 Second of all, I made a phone call via

5 our computer system that called every household in

6 Scranton that we have the telephone number for and we

7 invited them to the PTA meeting which was held last

8 Wednesday. We called everyone.

9 And we are also having a back to school

10 night coming up, we will call every household again, so

11 I invite all members of the community, not just

12 minority to attend and get involved.

13 So, I would suggest that there's a

14 personal responsibility regarding all of that, and I am

15 not making that to one demographic group, I'm talking

16 about all groups.

17 If you want to be involved, the doors

18 are open, please do so. And that's all I have to

19 offer. I don't want to engage on this, because your

20 remarks are not accurate.

21 MR. DAVIS: Well, then you're calling

22 me a liar.

23 MR. MCTIERNAN: No, I'm saying your

24 remarks are not accurate.

25 MR. DAVIS: Okay, okay.


1 MR. MCTIERNAN: Your remarks are not

2 accurate. No matter how you slice it, they're not

3 accurate.

4 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Mr. Davis.

5 MR. DAVIS: Standard and Poors, you

6 quote from a statistical group --

7 MR. DIBILEO: Mr. Davis, what I'm going

8 to do is I'm going to ask Mr. McTiernan if it would be

9 appropriate to share that information with you so that

10 you can see the report he's referring to.

11 MR. DAVIS: I have that information, I

12 got it from Mr. King over at the school board. I know

13 what he's talking about. Standard and Poors does not

14 have an accurate count of what goes on in Scranton, nor

15 at your school.

16 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Mr. Davis.

17 Thank you. That's it for the sign-in sheet. Come

18 right up.

19 MS. SCOTT: Hi, I'm Lillian Scott.

20 Ms. Evans, I would like to thank you for being such a

21 wonderful role model for the women and girls of this

22 area, you are a highlight in our life.

23 What I did come to say is that I was

24 watching the Council meeting, and I was absolutely

25 shocked that Mr. Parker actually crawled out from under


1 his stone to come to a Council meeting. Four years ago

2 I lived on Penn Avenue --

3 MR. DIBILEO: Mrs. Scott, just for the

4 record, he has been here before --

5 MS. SCOTT: Okay. Well, I probably

6 didn't watch. I'm sorry, Mr. Parker, when I needed

7 you, you were under the rock.

8 Mr. DiBileo, you will remember when I

9 lived on Penn Avenue, I had that creek that went behind

10 my house and underneath Green Ridge Street, I collected

11 a box of rats, you could never believe the size of

12 them.

13 Mr. DiBileo knows, the one who is

14 warden of the jail, I can't think of -- Gilhooley,

15 okay, Mr. Gilhooley, I even had people from Harrisburg

16 up here. I could not get in touch with Mr. Parker, he

17 would not answer phone calls, he would not answer -- I

18 could not get in touch with our mayor, okay?

19 Rats, where children were playing we

20 had rats, okay? Another question I have, I heard that

21 Mr. Doherty once had a conversation with Mayor Koch,

22 I'm from New York. I have lived in Scranton now

23 15 years, this is my home, this is where I'm happy.

24 I would like to know why Mr. Doherty

25 didn't have a conversation with Mayor Guiliani, the man


1 who actually cleaned up New York City, okay, not

2 Mayor Koch. Mayor Koch, you could have walked up and

3 down the street and bought as many drugs as you want.

4 I have moved three times in the last

5 three years, one from Penn Avenue because of the rats,

6 then I moved to Maple Street, okay, where I was

7 watching a man get beat with a baseball bat. Thank God

8 we have the police department we have in this city,

9 okay? Thank God.

10 When Garcia's Market was robbed, I had

11 three men running up Maple Street, two with pistols,

12 one with a machete. Before I hung up that phone, we

13 had a block full of our police department. We have one

14 of the best police departments in the state, okay, and

15 I don't think they are being recognized.

16 Number two, before I moved to Scranton,

17 and this is 31 years ago, because that's how old my

18 daughter was, I was a bartender in New York right next

19 to a fire department, at the time I thought Scranton

20 was in Connecticut, I was never good in geography,

21 sorry, but I had heard a fireman say that Scranton

22 Police Department had one of the fastest response times

23 in the country, this was before I even knew where

24 Scranton was.

25 The other night -- I now live on North


1 Main Avenue and Parker, there was a fire across the

2 street from my house on Parker Street, as I looked out

3 my front window, what I saw through the flames, a lone

4 fireman walking through an inferno to see if there were

5 any persons in that house.

6 I want to know, where are we going to

7 get replacements for our heroes when this city dumps on

8 them like they do? It is time we took down the Restore

9 Pride in Scranton Mayor Chris Doherty and put up

10 restore pride in Scranton because of our citizens,

11 because of our police department, because of our fire

12 department and because of men like Bobby Bolus, one of

13 a few, who when that hurricane hit, volunteered to

14 bring things down south. We are the heroes of

15 Scranton, our police department and our fire

16 department. I leave you at that. Thank you.

17 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Mrs. Scott.

18 Thank you. Appreciate your comments.

19 MR. BELARDI: Council members, allow me

20 to introduce myself, I'm Attorney Jeffery Belardi, and

21 I'm here tonight on behalf of my friend and client Mr.

22 Joseph Perfillio in order essentially to insure against

23 or to witness and reply to any potentially slanderous

24 remarks or inaccurate remarks.

25 After some of the testimony that was


1 presented here tonight, I'm grateful that there Were no

2 slanderous remarks, but there were some disingenuous

3 remarks, misleading remarks.

4 The pension fund chairman, Mr. Osborne,

5 has carefully avoiding naming the current consultant

6 and/or any asset managers underneath, but did advocate,

7 in fact, Mellon Bank no less than three times.

8 It's peculiar that Mr. Osborne chose

9 tonight to speak about the pension fund and against its

10 current consultant. His timing is quite suspect, given

11 the fact that the proposals for the pension fund are

12 due tomorrow.

13 I also wonder whether the pension fund

14 board held a special meeting and authorized by vote Mr.

15 Osborne to speak on behalf of all of the board members.

16 I doubt that his words could be

17 considered the consensus of the pension fund board,

18 since the board has yet to be presented with proposals

19 to vote upon.

20 I can't imagine that the board

21 solicitor recommended Mr. Osborne's presentation

22 tonight given the potential, if not probable,

23 litigation in the appeal.

24 At this juncture I believe it's

25 inappropriate for the chairman to comment on either the


1 pension fund or its current consultant or any of its

2 asset managers. It clearly shows bias on his part.

3 And speaking as an unauthorized

4 representative of the board and expressing general

5 concern in the pension board venue is one thing,

6 speaking at a Council meeting at a time when proposals

7 are going to be reviewed by the pension fund board and

8 while there's pending litigation is another, and one

9 can't help but draw the inference that there's some

10 other ulterior motive.

11 Perhaps Mr. Osborne should consider

12 recusing himself of the vote on the pension fund's

13 consultant and asset manager in order to avoid the

14 appearance of impropriety.

15 I ask that you vote against rescinding

16 File of Council 113 or delay a vote on File of Council

17 113. It's not prudent when companies are bidding

18 competitively, as they are currently, for a

19 professional service that need not be even bid.

20 Whether the board is comprised of

21 fifteen or nine or seven, it appears the competitive

22 budding is the desired goal.

23 A new board or reduced board would

24 either agree with this board's desire to have

25 competitive bids or it would hand out a contract to a


1 favored son company, which after tonight's testimony,

2 it may already have.

3 I simply ask that you carefully

4 deliberate this matter. Thank you for your time.

5 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Mr. Belardi.

6 MR. PERFILLIO: Good evening, Council.

7 My name is Joseph Perfillio, I'm the current

8 co-consultant for the pension plan and a former

9 employee of ASCO Financial Group currently finishing

10 the end of a five-year contract.

11 What I'd like to point out tonight are

12 a few details, a few facts that sometimes go unsaid

13 about the management of the plan and maybe what has

14 happened in the past that have led to the certain

15 circumstances.

16 About five years ago, the city was in a

17 substantially difficult financial position. They

18 hadn't made MMO payments, which are the Minimum

19 Municipal Obligation payments to the pension plan.

20 They were in arrear to the tune of $2 million.

21 Those payments of $2 million accumulate

22 with penalties and interest at the rate of eight

23 percent. So, although Mr. Osborne is probably correct

24 in saying that the MMOs were lower at that time, they

25 were not making them into the pension plan.


1 So, even though you had a lower MMO,

2 the $2 million in arrears were accumulating these

3 payments. The only way to stop the penalties at the

4 rate of 8 percent is for the city to actually make the

5 payment.

6 What we did is we brought to the city

7 an opportunity at the time to Provident Mutual, which

8 has since been purchased by Nationwide, the opportunity

9 to have an advancement on a management contract.

10 In order for there to be an

11 advancement, the contract had to be for a certain

12 period of time. It was agreed upon that five years was

13 a reasonable point in time.

14 The reason why five years, was because

15 Provident Mutual was going to give the city $7 and a

16 half million. They advanced the city $7 and a half

17 million, the city immediately turned around and sent

18 the money into the pension fund.

19 Once they did that, the state

20 acknowledged payment of the back MMOs, discontinued any

21 compounding affects of penalties, and there were no

22 more penalties to be paid in the future because the

23 payment was made.

24 The state then released an additional

25 $4 million in assets to the pension plan. That means a


1 total of $11.5 million in assets were immediately

2 injected into the pension plan at the end of that

3 agreement -- excuse me -- at the beginning of the

4 agreement at the end once the city paid that. So,

5 $11.5 million immediately was paid into the plan, okay?

6 Another circumstance that Mr. Osborne

7 talked about was the payment of fees, charges of fees.

8 Any asset management charges which the plan would

9 always pay were paid from fund assets. Any additional

10 charges due to the pre-payment of $7 and a half million

11 on an advance was actually paid through the mayor and

12 his administration, they budgeted those payments, so

13 therefore those payments and the assets did not come

14 out the pension plan, they were paid for by the city.

15 Again, the plan did not receive any

16 kind of undue treatment due to the advancement of the

17 money, in fact, they received $11 and a half million

18 dollars.

19 I want to talk about a few other points

20 of the plan. Most people don't realize that the plan

21 pays out approximately $750,000 a month to mostly union

22 retirees in the City of Scranton.

23 That equates to between eight and nine

24 million a year, leaves the pension fund for the benefit

25 of retirees and citizens of Scranton.


1 The pension fund is approximately $5

2 million a year negative cash flow; meaning, that

3 despite the state aid, despite the city's MMOs that are

4 paid now on a timely basis and not in arrears, the

5 pension plan is still $5 million negative cash flow.

6 It pays out $5 million more than what it takes in.

7 The plan has to do approximately a

8 10 percent return to break even. What that means is,

9 as another gentleman pointed out, some of you may be

10 familiar, the investment markets are very difficult,

11 they're not -- they don't always go up, during the

12 period of time that Mr. Osborne and certain people like

13 to reflect on the good times of the pension plan, it

14 was the same good times for everybody in the '90s. The

15 2000s brought difficult investment markets.

16 Despite the plan and continuing to pay

17 out $8 to $9 million a year, which equates over roughly

18 five years to approximately $40 to $45 million over

19 five years have been paid to the retirees of the City

20 of Scranton.

21 The plan still remains at $70 million.

22 So, I just wanted to bring some of these facts as

23 certain people step forward and like to say that the

24 pension plan was manipulated, there was inaccurate or

25 incorrect performance, inaccurate or incorrect


1 management, I disagree.

2 For the plan to pay out $40 to $45

3 million of assets over the past five years and still

4 maintain its healthy balance of approximately $70

5 million, I disagree with that performance. Thank you.

6 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Mr. Perfillio.

7 MR. GERVASI: Good evening, ladies and

8 gentlemen, my name is Dave Gervasi, resident, homeowner

9 and a member of the Scranton Fire Department.

10 Just to touch on this pension thing,

11 I'm not an expert like Mr. Perfillio, but I do

12 understand that the deal that was brokered by

13 Councilman Doherty, Councilman Pocius, Councilman

14 Hazzouri and Attorney Gene Hickey, I believe the number

15 was they were in the bottom ten percent of returns.

16 Even though the economy was doing bad, they were in the

17 bottom ten percent on average from other managers

18 handling other portfolios or other pensions. Before

19 that, we were in the top 92 percent.

20 So, I don't think -- I can't even

21 explain -- I was never on the pension board, I can't

22 even counter what Mr. Perfillio said, and I don't chose

23 to, I don't care to, all we're saying is we don't want

24 Mayor Doherty involved in picking who's going to be

25 running out pension plans, because his record is not


1 too well on the managers he's picked. And after that

2 happened, he tried desperately into the bond issue to

3 pay off that company to try to get rid of them, it's my

4 understanding.

5 So, we wanted to be what our contract

6 says and we wanted to be the way it used to be, and

7 instead of waiting for a judge and spending more money

8 in court, we'd like this Council to remove the people

9 that Mr. Doherty put in there so he could control the

10 pension board because we're afraid to lose more money,

11 because that's only going to cost us and everyone else

12 all that money. That's all I have to say about that.

13 I also had an opportunity to read

14 Sunday's paper, and I was very upset because I missed

15 the sale at Rossi's, skinless boneless chicken breast

16 were a $1.69 a pound, but I do have one comment on, I

17 mean, I can't even believe I'm commenting on this, it

18 says, The newspaper's publishers and their families

19 have contributed $7,200 to Mr. Doherty's campaign this

20 year. According to campaign finance reports, they made

21 the donations as private citizens, not on behalf of the

22 newspaper, says George Lynett, who co-publishes the

23 newspaper with his brothers Edward and William.

24 Generally my policy on contributing to

25 political campaigns is not to do it. Over the years


1 you get older and you make a few exceptions, one of

2 those exceptions I made was Chris Doherty.

3 Well, I did a little research, it took

4 me about maybe a half hour yesterday, and I guess he

5 was a little bit wrong on that, because I have five,

6 and we didn't even get into a lot of campaigns, we

7 found five that they donated to, members of their

8 families, and it's about $27,000 that we dug up, and we

9 didn't even get into some that we thought they may be

10 donating to. So, again, the publishes I don't think

11 are telling you the whole truth either.

12 A few comments I have on -- there was a

13 debate, and I like to come up here and provide some

14 truth and factual information, but I was very happy at

15 one thing that the mayor said during the debate, he

16 finally admitted after three and a half years that we

17 had a surplus.

18 We cane here year after year and said

19 there was a surplus, the mayor's cabinet members and

20 lawyers in arbitration which I feel lied to the

21 arbitrator and said the city was broke, and that's why

22 we have to hammer the cops and firemen using the hammer

23 of the Act 47 recovery plan, but it's nice to see

24 finally after three and a half years the mayor actually

25 said we had a surplus. Whether we still do, I'm not


1 sure.

2 The other thing that was real

3 interesting he said, and I made sure I had a friend who

4 taped this and rewound this to make sure I had this

5 completely factual, the mayor said about arbitration,

6 he was asked a question, I believe he asked you,

7 Mr. DiBileo, how are you going to save money, you said

8 I'm not going to have arbitrations, dah, dah, dah, the

9 mayor said, In fact, the city hadn't won one in many

10 years. We've done very well in the arbitration

11 battles. We've hired good lawyers, and that's the

12 result of that.

13 I don't know if the mayor is in denial,

14 he's never been to an arbitration case, maybe the

15 lawyers didn't tell him, but he's 0 and 5.

16 I don't want to be like a smart-aleck

17 up here, but every one we won so far, they were, I

18 don't know how to explain, other than they were turkey

19 shoots.

20 It was so easy to beat the city because

21 they blatantly violated our contract or violated

22 agreements, and they're continuing to appeal these at

23 the expense of the taxpayers.

24 And I believe someone brought up last

25 week I think our legal fees so far are $800,000 since


1 the mayor took office, and he lost five arbitrations.

2 There's two more coming down probably soon, I'm

3 confident we're going to win those, and I think there's

4 two or three more in the pipeline.

5 One other article I'd like to mention

6 that I read in the paper, no, actually two of them,

7 there was an ad for Concerned Republicans Rallying

8 Around Mayor Chris Doherty, off the top of my head

9 there's 29 people in here that aren't even residents of

10 the city of Scranton. I know of three that I spoke to

11 that gave no permission to have their names in this ad,

12 so the deceit of this campaign is getting so bad, I

13 can't even believe it, I've never seen anything like it

14 in my life.

15 The other article was, we might as well

16 pick on everybody tonight, the other article was about

17 the occupational privilege tax where our collector

18 mentioned that you can't possibly formulate what you

19 said, Mr. DiBileo, about there's less people working,

20 and he goes on to say that it was a computer glitch.

21 Well, in January of '05, tax bills were

22 sent out late, and Mr. McDowell said it was a computer

23 glitch, and then he blamed the assessor's office and

24 the computers, then people's refunds were late, and he

25 blamed it on a computer glitch, and I believe what I'm


1 hearing now is a lot of municipalities where they send

2 back the money to them that are collected from his

3 office, a lot of the municipalities aren't getting

4 millions of dollars back that they're supposed to get,

5 apparently that's a computer glitch, and all I've got

6 to say about Mr. McDowell is, we have $17 million in

7 delinquent taxes, and apparently what I hear, maybe he

8 shouldn't make statements about computer glitches,

9 because apparently he doesn't go to work too often, and

10 he probable doesn't know much about computer glitches.

11 And that's all I have to say, thank you.

12 MS. EVANS: Mr. Gervasi, before you go,

13 though, could I ask you quickly a question, what is the

14 progress currently of the health care audit and the

15 health care consultant?

16 MR. GERVASI: The health care audit, at

17 this point they're waiting for additional information,

18 we have to get forms signs, HEPA forms, so that they

19 auditor can actually go to each employee that was

20 working during that period, to actually go in and get

21 doctor's records, records from Blue Cross Blue Shield

22 and hospital records.

23 Once that's completed, the audit can

24 continue. We are in appeal at this point. Judge

25 Minora made a ruling last week that -- I thinks he's


1 trying to kick it in the butt a little bit to try to

2 get this thing moving.

3 The city has 14 days, which I think

4 they're almost up, to come up with lists, and then the

5 unions are going to get together and get these forms

6 signed from our membership.

7 As far as the health care consultant,

8 we had one meeting with him, and it was actually a

9 fairly brief meeting.

10 We've been going back and forth, I

11 think, since August, and the city has not cooperated

12 with them and what they need. There are some -- they

13 are saying that there are some additional savings right

14 now immediately before they really dig deep into the

15 health care. They've been waiting for a while.

16 I've seen probably four or five

17 e-mails, and apparently the city is stalling this whole

18 thing, and it's just more and more money going down the

19 drain, and that's where we are at that.

20 MS. EVANS: Thank you.

21 MR. GERVASI: Before I leave, can I ask

22 you a question, Mrs. Evans, because I've asked this

23 question a bunch of times, Southern Union building,

24 I've asked this question probably three times, the

25 mayor said we gave them $1 million in an economic


1 development package, and Ms. Hailstone said we didn't

2 give them anything, did anybody ever find that out yet?

3 Mr. Saunders, can you please get an answer to that?

4 Thank you, sir. Thank you for the opportunity to

5 speak.

6 MR. DONAHUE: My name's Hal Donahue,

7 I'm originally from West Side, I now live on the Hill

8 and a former city cop and a retired military guy.

9 I felt I had to come before Council after I was quoted

10 in the paper as calling this venue a circus.

11 I've lived in 15 states, numerous

12 foreign countries, and quite honestly, this is the

13 least professional group I've seen, and I'll tell you

14 why .

15 First you let stand incorrect

16 information. Tonight was the first night, Mr. DiBileo,

17 I heard you actually correct somebody on the debt. If

18 you don't understand it, and it's possible you don't,

19 refer it aside.

20 Like the pension fund, you had no idea,

21 I assume, that the pension fund information was coming.

22 The proper thing to do was give us the information,

23 we'll review it and put it on the agenda. It doesn't

24 happen.

25 Crime, it took me five minutes online.


1 I go online, metropolitan areas, do you know this area

2 is the lowest consistently in crime, the absolute

3 lowest?

4 MR. DIBILEO: That is hearsay, and I'm

5 not going to allow you to say that.

6 MR. DONAHUE: It's FBI reports 2002.

7 MR. DIBILEO: I have been on the

8 computer myself and did not find that to be the correct

9 information.

10 MR. DONAHUE: I have the sheets, I can

11 provide them to you afterwards. It's FBI crime

12 statistics.

13 MR. DIBILEO: Please do.

14 MR. DONAHUE: We're always and

15 consistently in the bottom ten percentile, always

16 amongst the lowest.

17 MR. DIBILEO: Please do. Appreciate

18 that.

19 MR. DONAHUE: I will happily provide it

20 next meeting, because it's all over the web. If anyone

21 cares to look it up, they can, and that includes

22 Wilkes-Barre and Hazel ton, so we're probably far safer

23 than most places.

24 And then it's a campaign rally. You've

25 turned it into a campaign rally. People come in here


1 and say the red and blue signs, I'm for this, Mr.

2 Doherty did that, Mr. -- your job is to conduct

3 business of the city.

4 Speakers can speak for you or for the

5 other person outside the Council room. The purpose is

6 to conduct the business of the city, and you're not.

7 This city is better off right now than

8 it was four years ago, and if you have a plan to make

9 it better or continue it, state it, put it forward as

10 legislation, but please conduct the meetings

11 professionally. That's my only request.

12 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you.

13 MR. DUDEK: My name is Mike Dudek, I

14 live at 608 Depot Street, Scranton, PA, the city Plot.

15 The first thing I have to do is very forthrightly and

16 very directly contradict the last speaker who was here,

17 the reason is because I was a crime victim in front of

18 my own house this past Sunday morning about one o'clock

19 in the morning, next week I'll talk about that more in

20 detail.

21 But what I want to talk about tonight

22 is the current issue of Electric City. This is a

23 publication of The Scranton Times and it directly

24 affects the business of this Council. They have a

25 readers poll in the center of Electric City, under


1 Lackawanna living, I'm going to read to you the first

2 seven items they have here, Best Reason to Live Here,

3 Best Reason to Leave Here, Best Program On Channel 61,

4 Best Orator On Channel 61.

5 Now, this next one I am going to read

6 to you word for word, Best Freakin' A**hole on Channel

7 61, Best Political Campaign, Best Political Potshot.

8 First of all, if there's anything I

9 stand for is good government, the right for a person to

10 come up here and speak his or her mind with the

11 fullness of respect they're entitled to.

12 I think it's safe to say that Joanne

13 Williams and I degrees apart on our politics, but I

14 will defend every lastingly her right to the access of

15 this microphone to express herself any way she sees

16 fit.

17 I don't think any elected official

18 should ever be subjected to Best Freakin' A**hole on

19 Channel 61. People who are elected to office are

20 entitled to the respect of an office they are elected

21 to, whether you are a councilman or you are Mayor

22 Christopher Doherty, you are entitled to the respect of

23 the office.

24 MR. DIBILEO: Mr. Dudek, number one,

25 that question may not be referring to an elected


1 official, but that question shouldn't be in print.

2 MR. DUDEK: It is in print, and that's

3 the point.

4 MR. DIBILEO: That should not be

5 allowed.

6 MR. DUDEK: It is in print, and that's

7 the point, that is the point. The newspaper chose to

8 put it in print in general circulation in this

9 community. It is in print.

10 MR. DIBILEO: That is unacceptable, in

11 my opinion. If they would actually print the winner of

12 that poll question --

13 MR. DUDEK: I am asking -- and here's

14 what I'm asking for --

15 MR. DIBILEO: -- that would be totally

16 irresponsible on behalf of that paper.

17 MR. DUDEK: We have a woman on City

18 Council, we have a woman who works here for The

19 Scranton Times who prepares the articles, we have women

20 who come up here routinely to speak, they should never

21 ever be put in a situation where they should be so

22 jeopardized like that.

23 I am asking anybody who can pick up an

24 Electric City for Best Freakin' A**hole On Channel 61,

25 put my name down for it, put my name down for it so


1 that no other person has to be so denigrated by it.

2 MR. DIBILEO: Let's ask that nobody's

3 name is put down for that, Mr. Dudek.

4 MR. DUDEK: That would be even better.

5 Thank you.

6 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you.

7 MS. STULGIS: I'm Ann Marie Stulgis,

8 and I'm a resident of the city. I wasn't going to

9 mention it, but since a gentleman decided to come up

10 here and presume to know what I say and what I think, I

11 thought I might want to clarify one or two things.

12 Number one, I've never testified in

13 court regarding the case that you read about in

14 Sunday's paper; number two, I absolutely did say that

15 what I say in The Scranton Times is mostly not true,

16 the rest of the statement goes, because you are

17 misquoted all the time by that paper. Anyone who's

18 spoken to that newspaper knows full well exactly what

19 I'm saying. They take things out of context and they

20 definitely misquote people.

21 As for -- oh, I did make another note

22 for myself, as for my slamming the city, it became

23 necessary for me to come up here and bring it to

24 Council's attention time after time after time because

25 of the horrid conditions under which the Scranton --


1 members of the Scranton Police Department work. It is

2 pathetic.

3 There were wheels, literally wheels,

4 not tires, the whole wheel assembly falling off police

5 car as those men and women were driving those vehicles.

6 If you don't think it was necessary to

7 stand up here and make an issue of it time after time

8 after time, I wouldn't be doing what I'm supposed to be

9 doing as president of their union, and I did it, and

10 guess what we haven't had a wheel fall off a car in

11 about three years, so I'd say we're doing pretty darn

12 good, and I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to do.

13 And if The Scranton Times cares to play

14 politics with a private citizen that has no control

15 over the expenditures of this city and choses to hide

16 what's really going on, then I feel very sorry for

17 them.

18 Now, regarding the pension fund, and

19 the only reason I'm bringing it up is because I

20 happened to get the paperwork here on unfunded

21 liability, and Mr. Sallusti mentioned something a few

22 weeks ago, and I'm not positive of the figure he gave,

23 I believe he said that when Mr. Doherty took over the

24 pension fund was $53 million unfunded liability and

25 that he took that on, and I agree, it probably was $53


1 million in unfunded liability; however, since that

2 time, as you heard, the state has put in $4 million, as

3 the gentleman spoke earlier, and they did that deal

4 where they put $7.5 million in, and then when I believe

5 when we floated that latest bond that we got the

6 million dollar rating for, I believe we put in, what,

7 ten more, so that would be roughly $21.5 million dumped

8 into that pension fund.

9 It was $53 million unfunded -- well, as

10 of the first of this year, it was over $60 million

11 unfunded, so that's like a $28.5 million loss. Where

12 did the money go if it wasn't invested poorly?

13 Something else I wanted to bring up,

14 it was brought up tonight that the bidding for this is

15 competitive bidding for the contract, oh, it's

16 important to note that I, too, am a member of the

17 composite board, so I know about what I'm speaking.

18 It was put out for competitive bidding

19 the last time, and the composite board decided that

20 they would go with a particular investor, and the then

21 finance chairman of City Council, Mr. Doherty, decided

22 he didn't want it to go there.

23 They brought it before Council, and

24 Council ruled that the commission had no authority and

25 City Council overruled the commission. It's amazing


1 what can change in four years. Suddenly commissions

2 and authorities become autonomous, back then they were

3 able to overrule us. So, competitive bidding means

4 nothing, it doesn't assure that we're going to get the

5 best bid, it only assures if the pension -- if the

6 makeup of the pension composite board is allowed to

7 stand as it is, that someone would get it who may lose

8 another $27.5 million, which is ridiculous.

9 And I know there was something else I

10 wanted to bring up, I got so upset about that, oh, the

11 MMO, our MMO has progressively gone up. It was

12 $2.5 million last year. It had been down at one point

13 to $552,000, then it jumped up to $2.5 million, and all

14 I can give you, since obviously it's not finished yet,

15 these are the projected figures for the year 2006,

16 they're obviously subject to change, but the projected

17 figures for 2006 is $4.568 million, that's the

18 projected MMO. MMO is the Minimum Municipal

19 Obligation; in other words, it's the money that the

20 taxpayers have to pay. Remember, it was way down

21 there. It's gone sky high.

22 Also, someone mentioned that the fees

23 that were paid were not paid by the pension fund but

24 were paid by the city. They weren't paid by the city,

25 they were paid by us, the taxpayers. Thank you.


1 MR. ANCHERANI: Good evening, Council.

2 I'm Nelson Ancherani, taxpayer, resident, and also a

3 member of the FOP. I was going to talk about the

4 newspaper article, but instead I will call The Times

5 and I will voice my displeasure by cancelling The

6 Times, that's all I'll say on that issue.

7 Instead I'll read some city vouchers,

8 and maybe we'll raise some issues on these. Balance of

9 a purchase order for computers which were ordered for

10 OECD, $5,330; City Hall painting project, contract

11 amount was $1,500, I don't know if that was for this

12 room here, we do have paint on the windows; legal ad

13 for demolition bids for Madison and Vine and Bryn Mawr

14 Street, $889.52; for legal ads, demolition of 1234 Bryn

15 Mawr Street Project 01-04, $79,000, I don't know if the

16 city paid for that or that should have been the

17 contractor there. And is that a KOZ; does anybody

18 know?

19 MR. DIBILEO: I don't think so, if

20 you're talking about the Bryn Mawr Commons, I don't

21 think it is.

22 MR. ANCHERANI: Okay. Well, that's

23 demolition, that's $79,000, and like I said, if that's

24 private, it looks like the city paid for it.

25 Installation of hand scanners in City


1 Hall, $935, purchase an installation of video

2 surveillance camera, one camera, $728.75; security

3 camera system for city hall, total contract, $13,635 to

4 a company out of the city.

5 This is a good one, hardware for flags

6 and a restocking charge and freight, the total is

7 $1984.60, but the hardware for the flags was $314.40 to

8 restock that charge and the freight was $1670, to

9 restock that and for the freight, and those items cost

10 $314.40. Us taxpayers are going over the coals on

11 these things.

12 Flowers and labor for the front of City

13 Hall, $1160, a company out of the city; mums, more

14 flowers, mums, $587, same company out of the city;

15 flowers and labor, see attached invoices, for the front

16 of City Hall, $1660, the same company. I guess we

17 don't have any companies in this area that can do these

18 kind of jobs, that's what it looks like.

19 Frosting of the following windows,

20 public safety office, staff entrance door to zoning and

21 the police chief, $504.97, to frost those windows, wow.

22 And here's one. I guess I have to ask

23 this question, I'm probably going to sound stupid, but

24 does anybody know where the DPW is? It's on Poplar,

25 right, I believe Poplar Street?


1 Well, anyway, here, furnish and install

2 wiring, switching and receptacles at the DPW on Diamond

3 Avenue, I don't know where on Diamond Avenue, I mean, I

4 don't know where the DPW is on Diamond Avenue, but

5 that's what it says, $3,428. Taxpayers are getting it.

6 Thank you.

7 MR. MCANDREW: Good evening, Council.

8 My name is Larry McAndrew. I'm a Scranton resident,

9 and I am a taxpayer.

10 Continuing with what was addressed

11 about arbitration tonight, the city administration has

12 spent, as far as I understand, over $700,000, and one

13 solicitor was paid a salary of over $400,000.

14 If you combine that together, it equals

15 $1,100,000. When I hear weather reports stating in the

16 state of North Dakota where there was two feet of snow

17 just today, and that weather is eventually going to hit

18 the Northeast, we're going to see a severe winter,

19 there's no ifs, ands about it, it's going to be cold

20 here.

21 This is a poor community. Our tax

22 base, our gross salary is $25,000, if we're working.

23 We have senior citizens, we have disabled people who

24 are on fixed incomes managing under less than $15,000.

25 With the costs of utilities, heating costs, gasoline


1 and so forth, I don't have to mention everything, it's

2 going to be almost impossible, and it is going to be a

3 crisis this coming winter months for these people.

4 For people that are making $40,000 to

5 $50,000 to $60, to $85,000, that this administration

6 has given salaries to, maybe they don't understand

7 where these people are coming from, and maybe they

8 can't walk in their shoes and understand the difficulty

9 they're going to face, but it's a time now for changes.

10 We must make these changes to help our poor, to help

11 our depressed, to help our mentally ill, to help our

12 unfortunate ones.

13 I noticed Mr. Pocius left the room,

14 last week I was unavailable to be here, I attended the

15 county commissioners meeting, but I did watch

16 Channel 61, and I heard Mr. Pocius make his statement

17 that he thanked God that he's not going to be here for

18 another four years to witness what goes on here.

19 Well, Mr. Pocius, I have to say this to

20 you directly, we're glad you're gone, we're glad you're

21 out of here, because we don't need your kind. We need

22 people at city government that are going to understand

23 and are going to work for the people of this city.

24 Thank you very much.

25 MR. BRZYCKI: Mr. Pocius, are you going


1 to bring up motions again tonight?

2 MR. POCIUS: Pardon?

3 MR. BRZYCKI: Are you going to bring up

4 motions again tonight?

5 MR. POCIUS: I'm not sure.

6 MR. BRZYCKI: Oh, come on. Give me a

7 break.

8 MR. POCIUS: Come on, stick around a

9 couple minutes and I'll let you know.

10 MR. BRZYCKI: You know, we go to church

11 together, come on, come on, Mr. Pocius.

12 MR. DIBILEO: Go right ahead.

13 MR. BRZYCKI: I'm going to reiterate

14 then. My name is John Francis Brzycki, Jr. I live at

15 333 East Locust Street, Scranton, Pennsylvania. I,

16 too, am a victim of crime, and Mr. Keeler is not here,

17 and I wanted his expert financial advice, because I'm a

18 dumb Pollock.

19 Okay. All right. Mr. Walsh, could you

20 help me on this? I got the City of Scranton

21 Pennsylvania notice of financial statements long-term

22 debt, and I'm looking at the bond issue, and I look at

23 bond issue, general authorities series 2002,

24 amortization zero, okay, and go down the line, I look

25 at least obligations payable, capital lease vehicles


1 amortization, zero. I look at capital lease buildings,

2 amortization, zero. I look at total lease obligations

3 payable, amortization, zero.

4 Redevelopment Authority bond payable,

5 amortization, zero; notes payable, amortization, zero;

6 total redevelopment authority, amortization, zero;

7 total government activities, amortization, $23,467

8 debt.

9 I go down, this is business-type

10 activities, revenue bonds, major enterprises fund,

11 parking authority 1969 series, amortization, zero; 1995

12 series, amortization, zero; 2004 series, amortization,

13 zero, sewer authority, amortization, zero; 2002 series,

14 amortization, zero; 2002 series, amortization, zero.

15 Should I to on?

16 2003, amortization, zero; total

17 revenue bonds, amortization, zero; notes payable, major

18 enterprise fund, sewer authority, amortization, zero;

19 total business-type activities, zero; total long-term

20 debt, amortization, $23,467. Mr. Walsh, what does all

21 that mean?

22 MR. WALSH: Do you want the short

23 version?

24 MR. BRZYCKI: Yes, please.

25 MR. WALSH: I could give you a


1 three-word answer, I don't know, but my suggestion is

2 because it deals with the audit is to speak to somebody

3 who deals with our audit here.

4 MR. BRZYCKI: Like Mr. Sallusti?

5 MR. WALSH: No. I would suggest either

6 the business manager or somebody that works in the

7 business office that can give you an explanation of

8 that or I can speak to them. I haven't reviewed the

9 entire audit but I --

10 MR. BRZYCKI: Mr. Courtright has an

11 idea.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Maybe Mr. Kresefski

13 could help you out.

14 MR. BRZYCKI: Oh, Kresefski, another

15 guy, oh. He's not a dumb Pollock, is he?

16 MR. COURTRIGHT: No, don't say that.

17 Okay. I'm out of order. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Mr.

18 DiBileo, I'm sorry. Don't kick me out. I'm going to

19 be very quiet tonight, and Lisa is going to have a very

20 short -- you won't have to kill yourself with your

21 fingers. Okay.

22 Now, Mr. Morgan was here last time on

23 September 29, and he begged the Council to table the

24 motion for the $32 million debt to the Hilton, where do

25 we stand on that, Mr. DiBileo?


1 MR. BRZYCKI: Oh, Mr. DiBileo, you're

2 not listening.

3 MR. DIBILEO: The $32 million --

4 MR. BRZYCKI: The $32 million debt to

5 the Hilton Conference Center, right, where do we stand

6 on that? I don't understand that.

7 MR. DIBILEO: Well, that is the debt of

8 the developer. I believe that was the cost to

9 construct the building, and the city's portion that it

10 chipped in was the $3 million, which we've negotiated a

11 payback as good as we can, so that's all we need to be

12 concerned about, and we're hoping that --

13 MR. BRZYCKI: That's $150,000 with the

14 $500,000 or something like that? Well, wait a minute.

15 Come on, come on. That's $500,000, that's all we save?

16 MR. DIBILEO: Per million at the $26

17 million level.

18 MR. BRZYCKI: Excellent, excellent.

19 Real quick now. This one woman approached -- I talked

20 about the Pennsylvania property tax or rental rebate

21 program, well, this woman approached me at the

22 unemployment office, which I am there now, and she said

23 if my mother only knew about that 22 years ago, she

24 could have saved herself a lot of money, because she

25 owns her house and she's a senior citizen. And you


1 know what she has, she said to me, she has, real quick,

2 I'm an accountant, I'm a dumb accountant, I'm done,

3 see, I don't even have my figures here, but anyway what

4 she has is fixed income on Social Security, so she

5 takes half of that because she owns half her house and

6 she takes half her savings -- no, I'm sorry, see, I'm

7 dumb, she takes her total savings, then she takes her

8 total dividends, then if it's less than or just a gross

9 income of $15,000, she gets money back from the state,

10 isn't that wonderful?

11 Now, if she doesn't get the money back

12 from the state, the state legislatures stick that in

13 their pocket and they give themselves a raise. I'm not

14 done yet, a little more time. Okay. A little more

15 time, real quick. Mrs. Evans did leave because I did

16 talk about Mr. Sallusti, and I just want to reiterate

17 the debt is $198 million; is that correct?

18 MR. DIBILEO: Overall.

19 MR. BRZYCKI: Overall. Didn't Mr.

20 Sallusti say it was about $57 million?

21 MR. DIBILEO: I don't believe so, Mr.

22 Brzycki.

23 MR. BRZYCKI: What did he say about it,

24 $37 million? What was it, $27?

25 MR. DIBILEO: I can't recall what he


1 said.

2 MR. BRZYCKI: I don't recall what he

3 said either. Mrs. Evans did leave, but I just want to

4 say one thing, when I worked up at RCA in Dunmore, Mr.

5 Ray Renwick was a controller up there and he told me

6 that, he said, John, he said, don't forget now, he

7 said, figures don't lie, but liars make figures.

8 Goodbye, everybody. Good night.

9 MR. DIBILEO: Good night.

10 MR. NEWCOMB, JR.: Good evening,

11 Council. Just for the record, it was stated here

12 before that some people come up here and they speak for

13 their candidates, well, I don't know about anybody

14 else, but I speak for myself, and if this CRF isn't the

15 biggest political forum yet, nothing is.

16 I have, as we all know, have been

17 asking for help with a flooding problem in front of my

18 house for almost six months. These requests have gone

19 on deaf ears with this administration. Mrs. Evans is

20 the only person that acknowledged my problem.

21 It has been brought to my attention,

22 and as was stated here before, that a similar problem

23 that was occurring in Green Ridge for less time than

24 I've been addressing mine was fixed within two to three

25 days. I'm not trying to give the impression that you


1 think, I think the mayor did that for himself.

2 There's also a rumor on the street that

3 some of the AEDs in the fire engines currently aren't

4 working properly or have been taken off the engines. I

5 hope, I truly hope, that this is indeed a rumor, but I

6 ask you to look into this, because this city has the

7 perfect opportunity to implement a quick response

8 system, and yet this mayor refuses to do so on the

9 backs of its citizens.

10 By not implementing this system because

11 of the arrogance, it not only affects the people of

12 Scranton, but it affects every person that drives

13 through our city every day in case they should have an

14 emergency.

15 Every week I'm going to take you back

16 to four years ago to some articles that was in the

17 newspaper. May 10, 2001, Mr. Doherty Says He Has A

18 Vision To Restore This City, by Donny Collins.

19 Reducing Scranton's wage tax .1 percent every year is

20 the next vision.

21 Mr. Doherty's theory is that more

22 people would move to Scranton increasing the tax base

23 and with it revenue coming into the city.

24 Again, May 20, 2001, The only way I

25 think we can increase revenues is reducing the wage


1 tax. Now people say, Well, you're reducing the tax and

2 that costs you money, well, but it will attract more

3 people to move in. With more people coming in, you

4 create more revenue coming in, both in the wage and

5 property taxes.

6 Now we move up to October 3, 2005. I

7 don't remember ever saying that, Mr. Doherty said,

8 adding that the city's top bond rating proved the city

9 finances were in order regarding the wage tax.

10 Again, May 20, 2001, I'll never sell an

11 asset to pay the electric bill, I'll never use any home

12 run budgetary items like selling the golf course for

13 one time revenues. Do we own the golf course any

14 longer? I don't think so.

15 Again, in July of 2001, The only way we

16 can increase revenues in Scranton is by reducing the

17 wage tax.

18 Also regarding the swimming fees,

19 Councilman Chris Doherty felt admission should be

20 charged at the pools for non-city residents.

21 Mr. Doherty said, Scranton taxpayers fund the pools,

22 and so should enjoying the privileges of free swimming.

23 What happened in three and a half years? I'd like to

24 know.

25 The Scranton Times have been doing some


1 overtime, in my opinion, in the humiliation department

2 these past few weeks. I just wanted to remind the

3 newspaper, as well as the Doherty Administration and

4 its followers, because it seems to me that Mrs. Evans,

5 as well as others, seems to be a target in these

6 newspapers, let's go back and remind everybody that

7 Mrs. Evans received more votes than anybody in the last

8 two elections for a reason. The people want her as our

9 voice. Almost 12,000 votes, to me, is a mandate from

10 the people.

11 I've been coming to these meetings,

12 like I've said over and over and over again, for almost

13 ten years, long before Channel 61 was even a thought.

14 Never in that time prior to Mayor Doherty did I ever

15 hear of anyone being threatened or intimidated because

16 of what they say at this podium.

17 Because I disagreed with Mayor Doherty

18 and his so-called vision from the very beginning, I had

19 the mayor himself make derogatory remarks to me.

20 People close to me have been threatened and

21 intimidated, as well.

22 I have lost friends because of must

23 vocalness ness at this podium. I do not or will I you

24 ever take intimidation very well, that is why I

25 continue to speak here every week.


1 This election, in my personal opinion,

2 for Mr. Doherty is not about the people of Scranton or

3 even about Scranton, it is about power and

4 intimidation, because I've seen it at its finest.

5 It has been brought to my attention,

6 and I truly hope that this is a rumor, as well, that

7 the Doherty campaign are going to start with personal

8 character assassinations. We already saw this in The

9 Sunday Times with Ms. Stulgis.

10 MR. DIBILEO: That's hearsay, Mr.

11 Newcomb, can't allow that, please.

12 MR. NEWCOMB, JR.: Like I said, it was

13 a rumor, and I hope it's not true. I just want the

14 people of Scranton to know about these rumors. Every

15 person that comes to this podium has a family, and it

16 affects them, as much as the individual that speaks

17 here.

18 The people of Scranton need to know

19 about these rumors, and I hope they only are rumors,

20 because if they're not, some lawyers in this town are

21 going to have people for lunch.

22 Mr. Pocius, last week you stated how

23 these meetings are ridiculous and you are glad you lost

24 the last election, and you also stated to me as I was

25 leaving the podium, Thank you for your warm thoughts,


1 first let me say that I think you misinterpreted my


3 I assume that you are going to make

4 your political scripted petty and childish motion again

5 this week; therefore, I am going to ask you again, When

6 are you going to stop violation the Home Rule Charter,

7 along with ethics of this city, and cease your payments

8 into the pension fund?

9 Since you don't like what is being said

10 here and we're wasting your time, I would also ask you,

11 Why don't you take into consideration resigning and

12 stop wasting our money?

13 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Mr. Newcomb.

14 MR. NEWCOMB, JR: Week after week the

15 unions of this city are continually divided because of

16 this motion, and I think it's about time to put a stop

17 to it. Thank you.

18 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you.

19 MS. FRANUS: Fay Franus, Scranton,

20 Pennsylvania, taxpayer. My first thought tonight is

21 about the animal abuse officer in Scranton, I don't

22 want to ask any questions, I just want to make a couple

23 of statements.

24 I'm a meter reader for the water

25 company and I'm out every day, and I see at least -- I


1 see hundreds of dogs every day, I see a lot of abuse,

2 and I see everything, and I run into the Humane Society

3 Officer Tina Walter and Officer Marciano, they do

4 wonderful, wonderful work with the Humane Society of

5 Lackawanna County, but I do believe the City of

6 Scranton owes them a great debt for doing the work that

7 the animal abuse officer in Scranton has not done for

8 months.

9 He's still not working, and the city

10 has not replaced him. In the meantime, all these poor

11 dogs are being abused.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Ms. Franus, I asked

13 Jay to see if he could find out if and when the animal

14 control officer will return, and if it's going to be

15 for a length of time, I'm going to ask if we can't

16 replace him. I know he has been off quite a while.

17 Have we gotten any answer, Jay?

18 MR. SAUNDERS: I talked to Director

19 Hayes about the situation, he said that he believes

20 that he may be off for a little while longer, but they

21 are using the Humane Society. I think there's a budget

22 item that we pay the Humane Society X-amount of dollars

23 per year, and they are picking up the slack for us

24 right now.

25 MS. FRANUS: I really don't think that


1 the Humane Society is being reimbursed for some of the

2 work that they're doing, and that's not fair at all.

3 You may believe that to be true, but it's not.

4 MR. SAUNDERS: No, there's a line item

5 in the budget for the Humane Society, and we give them

6 money every year.

7 MS. FRANUS: Like I said, they're doing

8 work that the animal abuse officer in Scranton is

9 supposed to be doing, so they're going over and beyond

10 what they should be doing, and they should be

11 reimbursed from the city.

12 Okay. Now, I want to talk about Joanne

13 Williams. I find it very dreadful -- No?

14 MR. DIBILEO: No. I'm sorry, Mrs.

15 Franus, no, we're not able to -- she's not an elected

16 official and we're not going to allow, you know, people

17 to be talked about.

18 MS. FRANUS: Well, I'm going to say

19 this, I find, it's my opinion, this is just my opinion,

20 and I have a right to say it, I think it's dreadful

21 that she comes in and speaks to Council in the manner

22 that she does.

23 There was a gentleman here earlier

24 tonight that spoke quite well, he was a Mayor Doherty

25 supporter, and he was respectful and you couldn't help


1 but like the guy. He said very many nice things, and

2 he said it in such a way that you didn't mind hearing

3 it, but she comes to this podium and she provokes

4 people, she makes -- insults you, Council, with

5 personal insults.

6 To get respect, you have to give

7 respect. She does neither. She antagonizes. And like

8 I say, I'm out every day, and people tell me all the

9 time that she's a disgrace and she's not making a good

10 light in the city.

11 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you.

12 MS. FRANUS: I'm not done yet, Gary.

13 MR. DIBILEO: Well, let's change the

14 subject on that matter.

15 MS. FRANUS: Well, why is that?

16 MR. DIBILEO: Well, only because she

17 has a right to criticize people that, you know, work

18 for the city in this capacity.

19 MS. FRANUS: Not in that manner. I

20 mean, there's a way to speak and there's a way not to

21 speak. And when she says to you --

22 MR. DIBILEO: I take most of the brunt

23 of her remarks, and that's perfectly fine. No problem,

24 I can handle it. I can handle it.

25 MS. FRANUS: It's the way she speaks,


1 Gary. I mean, other people were banged out of order,

2 but she's never done that -- you don't do that to her,

3 I don't know.

4 She says that she pays your taxes, so

5 do I, but I don't mind paying your taxes at all,

6 because the majority of the people in the city pay

7 them, and we don't mind, money well spent, you're doing

8 a wonderful job.

9 Now, Mr. Donahue, is that your name,

10 sir?

11 MR. DONAHUE: Yes.

12 MS. FRANUS: I don't know if this is,

13 maybe I'm wrong, please correct me if I am, but haven't

14 you appeared in ads for Mr. Doherty and you're saying

15 that we should --

16 MR. DONAHUE: No, I haven't actually.

17 MS. FRANUS: No? Okay. I'm sorry.

18 But you also came in front of this Council and made

19 comment about how this city has been so much better for

20 the last four years, that was a political comment, so

21 what you're saying we shouldn't be doing, you're doing

22 the same thing in a reverse manner.

23 We should be able to say what we want

24 here and not be banged out of order, unless we're being

25 disrespectful.


1 There's many things up here that I

2 don't agree with certain Council members, but you don't

3 see me screaming and yelling at them. There's a way to

4 behave in public.

5 Mr. Pocius, it really saddened me when

6 you said you don't want to be here.

7 MR. POCIUS: What I said was, if I

8 could just respond, Mr. President, I said I will finish

9 my term, but I'm glad I don't have to sit here for

10 another four years after this.

11 I tried my best when I was here, but I

12 really think that I've -- basically it's time to step

13 down.

14 MS. FRANUS: But couldn't you consider,

15 like, going, like, earlier so someone could come now

16 and be very enthusiastic about it?

17 MR. POCIUS: Mrs. Franus, I wouldn't

18 give you the pleasure of that, believe me, no, or

19 anybody else.

20 MS. FRANUS: It's not so That. It's

21 just that somebody else that would like to do it --

22 MR. POCIUS: No, I would not give you

23 are the pleasure of anyone else. I was elected to

24 serve until the last meeting -- until my first meeting

25 in January, and I will be here until then.


1 MS. FRANUS: All right. Thank you very

2 much.

3 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you.

4 MS. PILOSI: Good evening, Council.

5 Violet Pilosi, taxpayer, resident. My comments this

6 evening will be directed and solely to President

7 DiBileo.

8 For the past six years, missing only a

9 few, I have been a loyal regular attendee of these City

10 Council meetings. Since you have decided to become a

11 mayoral candidate, I have spoken only three times,

12 choosing to sit back and observe.

13 Scranton is where I was born and

14 raised, and I chose to reside here. Never in my years

15 have I personally witnesses such an attempt to cause

16 the demise of my hometown city government through the

17 gross lack of integrity and leadership you demonstrate

18 by continual constant allowing purposeful enabling and

19 intentional encouragement of a ferocious vendetta for

20 the purpose of want for personal gain of a mayoral seat

21 for which you have no favorable attributes to offer

22 this city.

23 You, being President, are solely

24 responsible for making these City Council meetings the

25 laughing stock for miles and miles of adjacent cities


1 to Scranton. We certainly would be better off without

2 you.

3 Last Friday circumstances put me in the

4 company of some of your top supporters, and I overheard

5 remarks, We've got it in the bag. Well, Mr. DiBileo,

6 you have a bag, okay, a big bag of hot air which is

7 about to explode when you go down in defeat November

8 the 8th.

9 You can't hold a candle to Chris

10 Doherty. His professionalism and leadership will

11 continue to carry this city forward for the next four

12 years as he has done throughout his current term.

13 In closing, I'd like to wish you, Mr.

14 DiBileo, an early good riddance.

15 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Violet.

16 MS. KRAKE: Hard to tell whose side

17 she's on.

18 MS. PILOSI: There's both sides here.

19 MS. KRAKE: First I would like to say

20 that I have some remarks to make on the other speakers

21 that were here this evening, and the first is

22 Mr. Gervasi spoke about the tax collector.

23 My name is Nancy Krake, I forgot to say

24 that, I apologize, but I also the represent the

25 unionized employees in the single tax office, and


1 they've expressed nothing but frustration and concern

2 since that gentleman has taken office, Ken McDowell.

3 It's really a shame. We never

4 experienced grievances in that office before, and

5 they're all work related, because they aren't able to

6 get their work done, as they did in the past.

7 Unfortunately part of that is because

8 they cannot seem to get in touch with Mr. McDowell,

9 because he's often at work. I just know that for a

10 fact, and we do have much paperwork to back that up.

11 The second thing I would like to remark

12 on is on the gentleman, Mr. Perfillio that spoke from

13 ASCO, and also on Jeffrey Belardi, their attorney.

14 I was asked by a township, since they

15 knew ASCO and Provident represented -- worked for the

16 City of Scranton, how I felt about them, and I

17 recommended they not use them.

18 It was said here this evening that they

19 made $3 million on return, that's 30 percent return

20 versus the eight percent that we would have paid in

21 penalty if we had not taken the loan. It's a very

22 large difference. Pay to play, once again.

23 The composition of the board is

24 extremely important, otherwise the mayor wouldn't have

25 chosen to pack it with his people. It's also been


1 deemed illegal by an arbitrator, even though Attorney

2 Belardi doesn't seem to think that's a problem.

3 Apparently it' not a problem for his client.

4 The next thing I'd like to say this

5 evening is, I did hear a rumor, and this is a question

6 for you, Mr. DiBileo, did you send an e-mail promising

7 a towing contract?

8 MR. DIBILEO: I know what you're

9 referring to, the answer is no. I do have a copy of

10 the e-mail you're referring to, and it will be turned

11 over to a computer specialist in the hopes that the

12 originator of that e-mail can be determined. There

13 could be criminal charges involved, and we have reason

14 to believe, pretty clearly, that, you know, proof that

15 I did not send that e-mail.

16 MS. KRAKE: Well, that's good to know.

17 MR. DIBILEO: I think it's a good

18 example of the dirty politics that exist in this city

19 every day.

20 MS. KRAKE: That just seems to be

21 getting ever more intense as we get closer to the

22 election or to November 8, I should say.

23 I have here tonight many facts, even

24 though Mr. Doherty's commercial say we don't abide by

25 facts and we present false facts, even though I don't


1 think that's a correct statement at all, we have

2 budgets that we look at all the time, I have a 2001

3 budget from Mayor Connors and Mayor Doherty's last

4 budget, 2005, the audit from 2004, and an audit from

5 2001, and also an e-mail, Mrs. Evans, you were just

6 asking Mr. Gervasi, it lists all the things the city

7 yet to provide since they've been requested on

8 April 15, to bring the health care back to where it

9 was, since they disabled it when they came into office.

10 So, all these are in paper, and I

11 welcome anyone who would ever like to look at them.

12 They can find me in City Hall, and I'd be more than

13 happy to show it to them or make the copies available

14 to anything that we speak about here at any time.

15 It's been 196 weeks that this mayors's

16 been in office, and we're over $198 million in debt,

17 and I think that's a great record to run on. A million

18 dollars a week.

19 In fact, as we were looking closer at

20 the budget, Mrs. Evans, I think, and the audit, you

21 were generous. I think there's another $12 million

22 added on there. There's $6 million in 2004, and then

23 that's the $4 million, plus the interest, and then

24 another $6 million in 2005, that are not reflected in

25 the $198. So, in reality, were are $210 million in


1 debt. It's extremely scary.

2 I'm trying to think of the best way to

3 describe this so everyone can understand it, because

4 it's difficult for me to understand and it's difficult

5 to explain, however, I think Mr. Sallusti should not

6 throw a shoulder out patting himself on the back for

7 something every homeowner who refinanced their loans at

8 a lower interest rate did, and we didn't pay an

9 accountant $600,000 to do that.

10 It's not rock science. We refinanced,

11 got a better rate, only this mayor chose to borrow even

12 more money and bring us even more in debt.

13 The difference in Mayor Connors' last

14 budget and this current budget is $10 million overall.

15 The TANS have $1.2 million increase. The bond debt

16 service that we pay is $3.8 million. This is a very,

17 very serious state the city is in. We were well out of

18 distressed status, and this mayor chose to keep us in

19 it. Thank you.

20 MS. JENNINGS: Mine will be quick, I

21 promise. I'm here to solicit someone's help. Mr.

22 McTiernan, you might be the best one, Friday,

23 October 28, I believe, is the Scranton and West

24 Scranton game, it's also the bell game, it's also one

25 of the most rivalrous games we have.


1 A gentleman that works and helps out

2 with Channel 61, it was his idea, and he's more than

3 willing to help, is there a way that we can actually

4 have that on TV?

5 This game also poses a special meaning,

6 because some of the pro players from both schools are

7 coming back, and the end zones will be dedicated to

8 them, and I'm wondering if we can get help, maybe from

9 someone, and 61 to televise this, because some of the,

10 you know, maybe the senior citizens in this area may

11 not be able to get out to it, but they may have

12 grandchildren and great grandchildren that might want

13 to watch it.

14 MR. MCTIERNAN: I can make that request

15 to my supervisors and Mr. O'Malley, who's the director

16 of buildings and grounds for the district. I'll be

17 happy to do that.

18 MS. JENNINGS: Somebody, you know, the

19 gentleman that spoke that gave me the idea said he

20 works for 61, and would be more than happy to do it, so

21 we do have help.

22 MR. MCTIERNAN: Since that's school

23 business he can call my office and I will try to help

24 him arrange that.

25 MS. JENNINGS: Okay. Thank you.


1 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you.

2 MR. WALSH: 5-A, motions.

3 MR. DIBILEO: Mr. McTiernan, do you

4 have any motions or comments this evening?

5 MR. MCTIERNAN: Mr. Pocius, are you

6 going to bring up about the appointment? Okay. Then

7 I'll leave -- nothing at this time, Mr. President.

8 MR. DIBILEO: Mrs. Evans, motions or


10 MS. EVANS: Ladies and gentlemen, I'm

11 going to begun with this week's list of citizens'

12 requests.

13 First, we, hopefully, will pave Corey

14 Street in Minooka. This is the third request. My last

15 request was made in April 2005, and I have learned

16 recently that the 1200 block of Lavelle Court was paved

17 and granite slabs were removed. Consequently, I have

18 no doubt that Corey Street can and should be taken care

19 of.

20 Also, the residents of Grove Street

21 request a no trucks allowed signs. They're reporting

22 18-wheelers are coming down their street, which are

23 unable to turn either right or left onto Albright

24 Avenue.

25 A memo to Mr. Parker, residents report


1 that the water problem on Grove Street is not fixed and

2 they would like the DPW to finish the job and correct

3 the problems.

4 Also, a blocked sewer drawn at the

5 corner of Pittston Avenue and Birch Street. The drain

6 is now filled to the top with trash, and just again

7 today I received yet another e-mail that I'd like to

8 read an excerpt from, As of 4 p.m. yesterday, the large

9 storm drain at the corner of Birch Street and Pittston

10 Avenue remains in total disrepair. The grate is broken

11 and the sidewalk above the drain is collapsed down into

12 the drawn itself completely blocking it.

13 All that is needed now is for a big

14 storm to come along, and the busiest intersection in

15 South Side will be flooded.

16 So, as was mentioned earlier about

17 storm drain problems, I'm hoping that we can have this

18 taken care of, as well, because I, too, noticed the job

19 that was performed in Green Ridge on my way to work

20 every morning, and it made me think of another

21 situation, I think it was Diamond Avenue and Court

22 Street, and I had brought that up months -- I mean, so

23 many months ago, it's beyond my memory, and nothing

24 happened there. So, you know, it does make you wonder

25 if you need to know the mayor to get the job done.


1 Pave the 500 block of Birch Street.

2 Also a letter to Mr. Baker at the Scranton Housing

3 Authority, can handicapped parking spaced be installed

4 in Park Gardens in front of buildings in which

5 handicapped residents reside?

6 They are forced to walk great distances

7 from their vehicles to their apartments because others

8 are parking directly in front of their buildings, and

9 when they do call to bring this to the attention of the

10 Housing Authority, they're not permitted to speak with

11 Mr. Baker, and often they're told they should just be

12 quiet or move.

13 Also, the corner of South Main Avenue

14 and Archbald Street, if we could please ask Mr.

15 McMullen to put up the street sign notifications. The

16 residents made that request during the summer of 2005

17 at a City Council meeting, yet nothing has been done,

18 and the rear of 1613 Green Ridge Street, learned this

19 week, an alleyway needs to be paved.

20 And, again, I'm going to emphasize, the

21 allies can be paved. I've heard that courts, certain

22 courts have been paved, so I believe the precedent is

23 set, if you're going to do one, then you better be

24 ready to do every request that comes along, and this

25 one is particularly serious where I'm concerned,


1 because I learned that a senior citizen fell there last

2 winter and broke her leg.

3 Also, pave Fellow Avenue and pave or

4 fill all the large potholes in the alleyway located

5 between the 600 block of Palm Street in South Scranton.

6 Now, on a more positive note, I

7 received an e-mail, and, again, I'd like to just read a

8 quick excerpt, I would appreciate it if you could pass

9 on an accolade to our DPW. During the last two weeks

10 we've had three permit parking signs stolen by

11 off-campus thugs. On Saturday morning I left a voice

12 mail for Pat McMullen with the DPW traffic division

13 advising him of the thefts, he called my wife first

14 thing Monday morning and advised that he would do his

15 very best to replace the signs.

16 By 10 a.m., the signs were being

17 replaced. Prompt responsive action to a citizens

18 complaint in these times is most refreshing and

19 reassuring. Pat and his team should be commended.

20 And I also received a number of e-mails

21 from residents of West Scranton would complimented

22 Officer Melissa Forshetti for the fine job she's been

23 doing in that area.

24 And next, Jay, I would like a copy of

25 the city's policy regarding health care insurance for


1 adult children of city employees who attend, the

2 children, that is, who attend college.

3 I've received several complaints that

4 these college students' coverage was stopped this

5 summer. It appears that human resources has been

6 delinquent in their proper notification to Aetna, so if

7 they can facilitate that as quickly as possible, that

8 would be appreciated, and, again, I'd like a copy,

9 please, of that policy.

10 Now, last week I said this mayor

11 embarked on a well-oiled campaign, re-election

12 campaign, on two issues, and I addressed the first

13 issue, which was CRF, now I want to comment on the

14 Mayor's second issue, that is his campaign, which sends

15 many people to the podium to speak on his long-term

16 debt, which I shall call the Doherty $198 million

17 long-term debt, or for the sake of brevity, the Doherty

18 debt.

19 A number of weeks previous I first

20 reported the figures taken from the independent

21 auditors report ending December 31, 2004. Apparently

22 my disclosure of the Doherty debt struck a very

23 sensitive nerve in the mayor, otherwise there would

24 have be no organized campaign to try and discredit me

25 and the honesty and professionalism of the independent


1 auditors report.

2 This mayor's newspaper, its reporters,

3 members of the mayor's administration and select

4 Scrantonians, whom I shall call his apologists, wrote

5 and made oral apologies for the Doherty $198 million

6 debt by trying to justify the reasons for his deficit

7 spending. Please note they did not say the figures in

8 the auditor's report were wrong.

9 Last week this mayor had a bond firm

10 representative appear and try to justify his continuous

11 deficit spending with no concern for the people's good.

12 The man's credibility or how much if at

13 all he should be believed really depends to a large

14 extent on the amount of money he and his firm received

15 in fees from non-bid contracts in this mayor's money

16 borrowing.

17 Last week under my questioning, the

18 people heard of the thousands upon thousands of dollars

19 his firm was paid. You decide if those hundreds of

20 thousands of dollars caused him to act independently or

21 on this mayor's orders.

22 Are this individual and all other mayor

23 apologists who claim the municipal authorities debts

24 should not be included in the overall debt prepared to

25 state the independent auditor is wrong and misleading


1 in its report?

2 Are this individual and all other mayor

3 apologists prepared to state unequivocally that the

4 amount of principal and interest in the Doherty $198

5 million long-term debt, which I reported are inaccurate

6 and deceptive?

7 If any of them do not, then it will

8 bring this matter to closure, and once and for all, the

9 figures I reported are accurate.

10 I may suggest that this mayor may still

11 be smarting from my publication of those figures,

12 because the people still ask how the mayor could be so

13 cruel as to saddle them with $198 million debt in so

14 short a time.

15 Recently the local newspaper's reporter

16 wrote that among other projects, this mayor used

17 borrowed money to build a new police headquarters and a

18 new DPW building.

19 A capital expenditure is defined as,

20 Expenditure for permanent additions or improvements to

21 property. I think I can safely say building a new

22 police headquarters and a new DPW building are capital

23 improvements and require capital expenditures.

24 We all know Scranton's Home Rule

25 Charter is the city's Constitution. Section 904 of the


1 Home Rule Charter deals with a capital budget. This

2 section requires the mayor to submit his capital budget

3 to the Council at least three months prior to the final

4 date for the submission of the operating budget.

5 Section 904 goes on to state, The

6 capital budget shall contain, and the words shall

7 contain means the capital budget must contain, first, a

8 summary of its contents; second, a list of all capital

9 improvements which are proposed to be undertaken during

10 the five fiscal years ensuing with appropriate

11 supporting information as to the necessity for such

12 improvements.

13 Third, cost estimated method of

14 financing and recommended time schedules for such

15 improvements; fourth, estimated annual costs of

16 operating and maintaining the facilities to be

17 constructed or acquired; fifth, inventory replacement

18 schedule for purchase and replacement of major

19 equipment.

20 On September 1, 2004, this mayor

21 submitted to Council what he purports to be his capital

22 budget for 2005, it contains a list of budgeted

23 revenues and expenditures totalling $21,981,726.64.

24 On September 21, he submitted his quasi

25 capital budget for 2006, and the total for 2006 is


1 $14,213,429. On face value, both capital budgets

2 appear to be somewhat similar, but I'm going to save my

3 comments on the most recent budget until next week.

4 Now, however, each item in a capital

5 budget is labelled with an F or a U, F for funded, U

6 for unfunded. And if unfunded, that, of course, means

7 no money has been set aside to pay for those items.

8 Now, if one subtracts all the unfunded

9 items totalling $11,040,000, from the $21,981,726 in

10 the 2005 capital budget, the balance of $10,941,726.64

11 is allocated for funded items.

12 Of the remaining $10,941,726 this mayor

13 claims to be funded, in other words that money is

14 available for the projects, I'll make an important

15 statement on that money in a minute.

16 The mayor's capital budget, however,

17 violates the Home Rule Charter, because he did not

18 include appropriate supporting information as to the

19 necessity for his listed improvements, nor did he state

20 the method of financing each project and the

21 recommended time schedules for each project, other than

22 to say the project was funded or unfunded.

23 The capital budget does not set forth

24 the estimated annual costs of operating and maintaining

25 the facilities to be constructed or acquired.


1 Apparently this mayor believes he is

2 above the law and does not have to comply with the

3 clearly mandated elements in the charter's Section 904.

4 His conduct is wrong and illegal, and this must be

5 stopped.

6 But perhaps the mayor and his

7 apologists can explain why he so openly violated the

8 Home Rule Charter in his capital budgets of 2005 and

9 2006.

10 A further examination of the mayor's 's

11 budgeted revenue shows he runs true to form, in that, a

12 listing of the revenue shows a continuation of phony

13 budgets by the use of smoke and mirrors.

14 Let me give two examples, first, the

15 mayor lists $750,000 as revenue from grants and

16 contributions, and that incidentally shows in both the

17 2005 and 2006 budgets, capital budgets.

18 He doesn't tell the people from where

19 the grants and contributions came. He doesn't state

20 when the grants and contributions were made, he doesn't

21 tell the people the amount of each individual grant and

22 contribution, which when added together total the

23 $750,000.

24 Second, the mayor lists a large

25 $10,790,000 as one time revenue sources. No one in the


1 administration told the people what are the names of

2 each revenue source and how much money came from each

3 one time revenue source so that we add up to a total of

4 $10.8 million.

5 And another entry is where this mayor

6 stated the capital budget has $7,052,755.63, in 2005,

7 which he took from his $198 million long-term debt.

8 So, this mayor borrowed money to make

9 his $198 million long-term debt, and now he borrows

10 money from his borrowed money. Need I say more about

11 his actions?

12 When I look at this mayor's capital

13 budget expenditures, it's interesting to see, according

14 to the 2005, that he will spend a total of $6,448,320

15 on park system improvements. This is in addition to

16 the millions of dollars the mayor already spent on the

17 parks.

18 What is the fixation he has which

19 causes him to continuously spend millions and millions

20 of dollars on the parks, when there are so many other

21 projects that are surely more important and beneficial

22 to the people?

23 I wonder, did the mayor ever think of

24 using the $6.5 million to improve police and fire

25 protection in Scranton? Did he ever think of using the


1 $6.5 million to improve or upgrade low-cost housing?

2 Did he ever think of using the $6.5 million to improve

3 the neighborhoods he neglected for four years?

4 And they're only a few examples. You

5 answer the questions and reach your own conclusions on

6 this mayor's priorities.

7 As for me, I still say whatever this

8 mayor does, he must first be able to honestly say the

9 project is good for the people and it is good for

10 Scranton. Without both, any project should be

11 rejected.

12 I'm not going to comment further on

13 park system improvements. Again, I think the people

14 should reach their own conclusions, but do you remember

15 several moments ago I said I would comment on the

16 $10,790,000 the mayor listed as funded capital

17 projects, and in the same documents they're described

18 as one time revenue sources, well, the smoke and

19 mirrors capital budget doesn't say what those one time

20 revenue sources are, or when the one time revenue

21 source was obtained, but I can tell you now, all you

22 have to do is look in the official statement the city

23 published on August 1, 2003, when the mayor borrowed

24 $72.3 million on his path to the Doherty $198 million

25 long-term debt.


1 As security for the borrowed $72.3

2 million, this mayor had the city issue four series of

3 general obligation bonds, and this is the city's

4 official statement.

5 On Page 2 of this statement there's a

6 section entitled, Sources and uses of funds for that

7 $72.3 million, and if one will look in the column

8 entitled, Series B bonds, which happens to be the

9 largest series of bonds totalling $35.6 million, it

10 shows that taken from that borrowing is $12 million for

11 capital projects, and only from bond series B, not A,

12 not C, not D, as is reported in the capital improvement

13 budgets.

14 So, now the people are able to pierce

15 the veil of secrecy and learn the mayor's one time

16 revenue source stated in the capital budget on all the

17 funded projects is nothing more but more borrowed

18 money.

19 But this matter is still important, so

20 I know I've spoken far too long, I'm just about there,

21 so just please follow along.

22 The mayor listed funded projects in his

23 capital budgets totalling $10,790,000, he borrowed $12

24 million from the series B bonds in 2003 to pay for

25 these funded projects.


1 When I subtract the $10,790,000 from

2 the borrowed $12 million, it leaves a balance of

3 $1,210,000, which is unaccounted for.

4 I looked and can't find what he did

5 with this $1.2 million. Now, it's possible it's in the

6 new capital budget, and I'm taking my time this week

7 and examining that thoroughly, but for now, I still

8 have to ask, where did the $1.2 million go? What did

9 the mayor do with it?

10 Well, maybe the mayor or his apologists

11 can educate the people on exactly what happened to that

12 money. I know I would appreciate the answer.

13 And all of what I just presented gives

14 you one more snapshot of this mayor's arrogant use of

15 power by exposing a blatant violation of Scranton's

16 Home Rule Charter, and what may very well be an

17 unaccounted for $1.2 million.

18 The people should be aware of all that

19 has transpired, and they should be aware of his refusal

20 to comply with the law. Make your decisions, please,

21 and act accordingly. That's it.

22 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you, Mrs. Evans.

23 Mr. Pocius, motions or comments?

24 MR. POCIUS: Yes, Mr. President. I

25 will be very brief this evening. First of all, we had


1 33 speakers tonight, I keep a running list every week

2 of how many, and I'm glad to see that I'm still -- hit

3 some nerves or hit somebody's warm hearts, because I

4 still get mentioned a couple times, and that's fine.

5 I'll be here until January, so I'm not going anywhere.

6 Number two, Attorney Walsh presented me

7 with a written opinion, and I thank him. I imagine you

8 prefer this -- it's not signed, Mark, but this is your

9 opinion, right?

10 MR. WALSH: Yes, sir.

11 MR. POCIUS: -- on the CRF issue, and

12 I read it briefly, so I wont' do anything tonight but

13 somewhere in here, I think, Mr. Walsh explains the

14 whole process, and for tonight I'll just let it go. I

15 think everybody's kind of at their wits end. It's

16 almost 10:30 already here, so I'll let that go this

17 week.

18 And my last issue that I have is last

19 week we introduced the name of -- I think it was Mario

20 Savinelli for the housing -- position on the Housing

21 Authority, we unanimously, Mr. Courtright, you were

22 absent, introduced his name, I expected to see that on

23 for final passage tonight, and it's not. I would ask

24 why it's not on.

25 MR. DIBILEO: Yes. Would you like me


1 to respond?

2 MR. POCIUS: Sure.

3 MR. DIBILEO: I am close friends with

4 Mr. Frye, who is leaving the Scranton Housing Authority

5 and Mr. Mario Savinelli, and both individuals are just

6 terrific guys, terrific people, and I simply asked if I

7 could for this week, I asked Mr. Saunders actually, if

8 we could just hold that just so that I could have a --

9 I could personally thank Mr. Frye for the service that

10 he's given through all the years to the Scranton

11 Housing Authority.

12 So, I have to admit, I did it for a

13 selfish reason, but I promise that that legislation

14 will be right back on the agenda for next week, and I

15 just wanted an opportunity to thank him before I

16 basically voted him off without having a chance to say

17 thank you, because I'm close with him.

18 MR. POCIUS: I appreciate your

19 frankness there, Mr. President, and you know the rules

20 of Council permit the president under his direction to

21 at his own choice hold or put legislation on, so you've

22 answered questions, and I will stand pat waiting for

23 Mr. Savinelli's appointment next week.

24 And I, too, know Jim Frye for a long,

25 long, long time, and anybody that serves on a board or


1 a commission should get credit, because it's a tiring

2 thing, there's no compensation, they spend a lot of

3 time, they're hounded a lot, especially for different

4 matters, so I, too, wish him well in his future

5 endeavors. And that's all. Thank you.

6 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you very much, Mr.

7 Pocius. And, Mr. Courtright, any motions or comments,

8 please?

9 MR. COURTRIGHT: Yes, Mr. President.

10 I'd like to thank Mrs. Evans, she forwarded an e-mail

11 to me, I was out last week, there's a gentleman who

12 doesn't want his name read here, but, Jay, if we can

13 send down to th police department, 16th Street and

14 Division Street, evidently there's several people

15 speeding going through the stop sign and whatnot in

16 that area, if we can ask.

17 And this gentleman is very

18 understanding, he says he knows that we can't position

19 a car there at all times, but if we can frequent it a

20 little bit more, he'd appreciate it.

21 I guess a couple weeks back we got the

22 figure of somewhere around $46,000 for all this

23 advertising. Jay, did we get the costs of the

24 billboards yet? I thought maybe you got it while I was

25 gone away.


1 MR. SAUNDERS: No, I didn't get them.

2 MR. COURTRIGHT: Could you ask for me,

3 please?


5 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'd just like to get a

6 final total.

7 MS. EVAN: Mr. Courtright, we were

8 discussing that last week, in fact, I made that request

9 and it still hasn't come in, but, you know, I can tell

10 you, and I think perhaps you worked with Lamar, as

11 well, during a campaign.

12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Oh, yes.

13 MS. EVANS: Did you receive your bill

14 in advance?

15 MR. COURTRIGHT: I think I had to pay

16 it before they put the signs up.

17 MS. EVANS: Right, so did I.

18 MR. COURTRIGHT: Actually I didn't have

19 enough money in my campaign, they took some of my

20 signs.

21 MS. EVANS: So, I would think OECD has

22 had that information since before those billboards went

23 up.

24 MR. COURTRIGHT: I was going to speak

25 on the animal control officer, but Ms. Franus came to


1 the podium and spoke on it.

2 And one more thing, as I said, I was

3 away last week and several messages on my machine when

4 I got back, and forgive me if Mrs. Evans has already

5 brought this up, I can't recall, because I think it was

6 few months back we were talking about the Housing

7 Authority, but I had two calls on the same subject, and

8 that was individuals, Jay, if you can bear with me

9 here, because I don't know if she's already brought

10 this up, if not, then we need to ask a question,

11 evidently they've been trying to get into Park Gardens

12 for two to three years to rent an apartment there and

13 having some difficulty, and the message says, I know

14 that you're not with the Housing Authority, but maybe

15 you can help us. We don't want to come to a Council

16 meeting.

17 They've seen people that have only been

18 on the list for a month or two get an apartment, and

19 they're asking -- is this the same question that you

20 asked, Mrs. Evans? If it is, I apologize.

21 MS. EVANS: No. This is in addition to

22 my questions. I wasn't aware of this situation.

23 MR. COURTRIGHT: All right. So, I

24 guess what they're looking for is -- I'm assuming they

25 watch Council meetings, because I don't know these


1 people, well, they didn't identify themselves, but I'm

2 assuming they're looking for some type of criteria to

3 get an apartment in the Housing Authority for Park

4 Gardens, and I don't know if there is one, Jay, but if

5 there is, I would guess Mr. Baker, we would ask, if he

6 can tell me what the criteria is to get an apartment in

7 Park Gardens, and I would -- and if they would like me

8 to, I would be happy to read it here at Council and

9 maybe these people can get their answer or -- I don't

10 know, are their meetings open to the public? I've

11 never been to a Housing Authority --


13 MR. COURTRIGHT: All right. Maybe if

14 the people are watching that called me, maybe you can

15 go to one of their meetings. I'm assuming their

16 caucuses would then also be open to the public.


18 MR. COURTRIGHT: All right. So, for

19 the two individuals that left me the message, if you

20 are watching, I'll ask that question for you, but maybe

21 you might want to go to the next Housing Authority

22 meeting. And I believe that's all I have. Thank you.

23 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you very much, Mr.

24 Courtright. And I just have a couple of quick things,

25 I know it's a late hour right now, but we have, oh,


1 four days left to do your civic duty, and that would be

2 to register to vote.

3 If anyone out there is listening

4 between now and Tuesday, October the 11, four o'clock

5 on Tuesday, October the 11th, is the deadline for

6 registering to vote, and I just wanted to remind people

7 of that.

8 Voter registration office is directly

9 across the street from the Radisson Hotel on Lackawanna

10 Avenue, or is that actually once you make the corner,

11 is that Jefferson, Jefferson, so you can walk in there

12 anytime before four o'clock on October the 11th and

13 register to vote.

14 It doesn't matter who you vote for, but

15 being registered and having a say in what happens in

16 this city and in this country is something that people

17 have fought and died for literally.

18 There was a newspaper article that was

19 actually in the newspaper today regarding the

20 occupational privilege tax, and I just wanted to say

21 that regarding that, in my mind, the only numbers that

22 you can bank on are audited numbers, numbers that have

23 been reviewed and released according to an auditor, and

24 as we all know, that happens at the end of each

25 calendar year, so I had referred to numbers regarding


1 the occupational privilege tax with regard to their

2 drop between 2003 and 2004 yearend, which were audited

3 figures, and to get the most recent numbers from 2004,

4 it literally took eight months until August of 2005, to

5 get those audited yearend 2004 numbers.

6 Now, today's article is referring to

7 figures through October the 5th. That may be possible,

8 but when you think about the fact that it took eight

9 months to confirm figures for the yearend 2004, and now

10 numbers are being thrown out there through August the

11 5th, I just would -- the reality is that any numbers

12 that are unaudited could include errors, or as one

13 speaker said, computer glitches.

14 So, I am not going to refer to any

15 numbers that are unaudited that could include errors or

16 computer glitches. I'll use audited numbers that I

17 refer to in my capacity.

18 This afternoon I volunteered a little

19 bit of my time, about an hour, at the Community Justice

20 Program in South Scranton at the South Side Renaissance

21 Center, and that's a county program, and at the South

22 Side Renaissance, there are some very staunch

23 volunteers that every Thursday and Friday between 12

24 and two, they are at the South Side Renaissance Center,

25 I don't know the address of the property, but if anyone


1 in South Scranton or the entire city, for that matter,

2 has problems that they'd like to have heard, they can

3 go into the South Side Renaissance Center Thursdays and

4 Fridays between twelve noon and two o'clock p.m., and I

5 was there for about an hour today, and I actually

6 witnessed citizens with concerns.

7 One that I'm going to try to look into

8 right away for a resident on the 600 block of Brook

9 Avenue, but more importantly I want to thank the

10 individuals that work there. They're so dedicated as

11 they are, that they're there every week, and they also

12 attend South Side Neighborhood Association meetings.

13 And the last thing is, very briefly,

14 three great organizations asked me if I would be so

15 kind to mention the fact that they are having events

16 this coming weekend, and one of them is the

17 parishioners of St. Peter and Paul Church at 1309 West

18 Locust Street asked me to mention the fact that the

19 church is having its annual fall bazaar this Sunday,

20 October 9, from 11:30 a.m. to six o'clock p.m., and

21 there are plenty of games, prizes and lots of ethnic

22 food.

23 The other two organizations, St.

24 Francis of Assisi Church on Genet Street in South

25 Scranton is having its Pasta Pronzo this coming Monday,


1 October 10, 11 and 12. So, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,

2 October 10, 11 and 12, they are having their pasta

3 dinner. Monday is no takeouts, sit-down dinners only;

4 Tuesday, October 11, is takeouts only, no serving of

5 dinners, and Wednesday is no takeouts allowed again,

6 and sit-down dinners only.

7 And the last organization is the South

8 Scranton Veterans on Prospect Avenue, this Sunday,

9 October 9 from twelve noon to 6 p.m., I believe, is

10 having a roast beef dinner, I believe it is, I believe

11 it's roast beef, it could be pasta. Whatever it is,

12 it's going to be good. They all can use your support.

13 And that's all I have tonight.

14 MR. POCIUS: Mr. President, can I have

15 one more second?

16 MR. DIBILEO: Absolutely.

17 MR. POCIUS: I had this written down

18 here, and believe me, it's not a cheap shot by any

19 means, okay, when I opened the paper this morning where

20 I saw where a former police officer died, Bill White,

21 and you mentioned him in your prayers, I knew Bill as a

22 policeman. He was a quiet man, he was a good man, he

23 served the city for many years, he was a former K-9

24 officer, but one of my fondest memories of him, he was

25 back on light duty with the city, and when the mall was


1 under construction, and we requested that through

2 Chief Klee at the time if someone could be assigned

3 down there, and he was assigned actually to the

4 construction, and he coordinated all the street

5 closings for emergency access, and he did a very fine

6 job, and it really helped that whole project to kind of

7 blend, and I just want -- I think the Council -- maybe

8 people didn't know who he was, but I think the Council

9 should send out convalescences to his family.

10 He was, like I said, a very quite and

11 gentle man, but a very good police officer, and I think

12 he will be missed by a lot of people. I just wanted to

13 say that. I had it written down, and I forgot, and I

14 think we should remember one of our own here,

15 especially one of Scranton's finest.

16 MR. DIBILEO: I'm glad you did, Mr.

17 Pocius, and I wholeheartedly agree, as I'm sure as does

18 all the entire Council that we send our convalescences

19 out, Mr. Saunders, to the family of Mr. White.

20 MR. POCIUS: Thank you. Thank you, Mr.

21 President.

22 MR. DIBILEO: Thank you very much.

23 MR. WALSH: Fifth order. 5-B, FOR






3 NO. 01.100.00000.4330 (CHEMICAL SUPPLIES) TO PROVIDE


5 MR. DIBILEO: At this time I'll

6 entertain a motion that Item 5-B be introduced into

7 it's proper committee.

8 MR. POCIUS: So moved.


10 MR. DIBILEO: On the question?

11 All those in favor, signify by saying aye.

12 MS. EVANS: Aye.


14 MR. POCIUS: Aye.


16 MR. DIBILEO: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

17 have it and so moved.

18 MR. WALSH: Sixth order. 6-A, READING





23 01.401.13090.4299 (CONTINGENCY) TO ACCOUNT NO.




1 MR. DIBILEO: You've heard reading by

2 title of Item 6-A, what is your pleasure?

3 MR. POCIUS: Mr. President, I move that

4 6-A pass reading by title.


6 MR. DIBILEO: On the question? All

7 those in favor, signify by saying aye.

8 MS. EVANS: Aye.


10 MR. POCIUS: Aye.


12 MR. DIBILEO: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

13 have it and so moved.







20 MR. DIBILEO: You've heard reading by

21 title of Item 6-B, what is your pleasure?

22 MR. POCIUS: Mr. President, I move that

23 6-B pass reading by title.

24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.

25 MR. DIBILEO: On the question?


1 MR. POCIUS: Just on the question,

2 Mr. Morgan did say he'd like to see this, but really I

3 think, Mark, there's a Constitutional thing there where

4 if public dollars aren't involved, I don't think you

5 can mandate that a private residence comply with the

6 disabilities act, right? Am I right or wrong?

7 MR. WALSH: There are some difficulties

8 with that, yeah.

9 MR. POCIUS: Yeah, so it may be a good

10 idea in thought, but --

11 MR. WALSH: I think that's why they

12 have certain places --

13 MR. POCIUS: -- not in theory, though,

14 right, not in law, though.

15 MR. WALSH: Pardon me?

16 MR. POCIUS: I just thought we should

17 say that, because if there's city funding in a house,

18 which is fine, they can dictate that, especially if

19 there's federal dollars, but not to dwell on it, but

20 it's a good thought, and it's a great thought, but I

21 don't think we could legally amend this ordinance to do

22 that.

23 MR. DIBILEO: Okay. If there's no

24 further questions, all those in favor, signify by

25 saying aye.


1 MS. EVANS: Aye.


3 MR. POCIUS: Aye.


5 MR. DIBILEO: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

6 have it and so moved.

7 MR. WALSH: Seventh order. 7-A, FOR







14 MR. DIBILEO: What's the recommendation

15 of the chairperson for the committee on public safety?

16 MR. COURTRIGHT: As chair for the

17 committee on public safety, I recommend final passage

18 of Item 7-A.

19 MR. POCIUS: Seconded.

20 MR. DIBILEO: On the question? Roll

21 call, please, Kay.

22 MS. GARVEY: Mr. McTiernan.

23 MR. McTIERNAN: Yes.

24 MS. GARVEY: Mrs. Evans.

25 MS. EVANS: Yes.


1 MS. GARVEY: Mr. Pocius.

2 MR. POCIUS: Yes.

3 MS. GARVEY: Mr. Courtright.


5 MS. GARVEY: Mr. DiBileo.

6 MR. DIBILEO: Yes. I hereby declare

7 Item 7-A legally and lawfully adopted.

8 MR. COURTRIGHT: I would just like to

9 make a motion that we hold Item 7-B, and my reason

10 being is that we received letter from Attorney

11 Hailstone that they might be able to work this thing

12 out without going through legislation, and I'd like to

13 give them that opportunity, if we could, so I'd like to

14 make a motion that we hold 7-B.

15 MS. EVANS: Second.

16 MR. DIBILEO: Okay. We have a motion

17 on the floor and a second. On the question?

18 MR. POCIUS: Just on the question, it's

19 similar to the motion Mr. McTiernan made to hold

20 another couple of pieces of legislation and it involves

21 the offer.

22 I explained the other times that

23 basically the offer of the land, if it's deemed fair by

24 appraisal, is what goes into the ordinance, it does not

25 preclude any other private citizen or any other


1 affected party from going to Common Pleas Court in

2 Lackawanna County when this has to be heard by the

3 judge to bid against this price right here, but if you

4 got some concerns, I'll -- we'll -- I'll hold it for

5 you.

6 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'll try to get a

7 little bit more information on it, if I could.

8 MR. POCIUS: Fine. But price, to me,

9 is not a consideration, and that's what the letter

10 stated, but I'll go along with the hold.


12 MR. DIBILEO: Okay. If there's no

13 further questions, all those in favor, signify by

14 saying aye.

15 MS. EVANS: Aye.


17 MR. POCIUS: Aye.


19 MR. DIBILEO: Aye. Opposed? The ayes

20 have it and so moved.










4 MR. DIBILEO: As chairperson for the

5 committee on rules, I recommend final passage of Item

6 7-C.

7 MR. POCIUS: Seconded.

8 MR. DIBILEO: On the question? Roll

9 call please, Kay.

10 MS. GARVEY: Mr. McTiernan.

11 MR. McTIERNAN: Yes.

12 MS. GARVEY: Mrs. Evans.

13 MS. EVANS: Yes.

14 MS. GARVEY: Mr. Pocius.

15 MR. POCIUS: Yes.

16 MS. GARVEY: Mr. Courtright.


18 MS. GARVEY: Mr. DiBileo.

19 MR. DIBILEO: Yes. I hereby declare

20 Item 7-C legally and lawfully adopted. Seeing no

21 further business on the agenda, I'll entertain a motion

22 we adjourn.

23 MR. COURTRIGHT: So moved.

24 MR. POCIUS: Seconded.

25 MR. DIBILEO: We're adjourned.




























1 C E R T I F I C A T E


3 I hereby certify that the proceedings and

4 evidence are contained fully and accurately in the

5 notes taken by me on the hearing of the above cause and

6 that this copy is a correct transcript of the same

7 to the best of my ability.



11 Official Court Reporter